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Speaker 1: Lily touring or to amno ethan sulfonic acid is an

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Speaker 1: organic compound that is widely distributed in animal tissues. It

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Speaker 1: is a major constituent of bile and can be found

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Speaker 1: in the large intestine and accounts for up to point

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Speaker 1: one percent of total human body weight. It's named after

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Speaker 1: the Latin taurus, which means bull or ox was first

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Speaker 1: isolated from ox bile in seven by a German scientist.

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Speaker 1: So touring in Red Bull basically animal bile stomach acid

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Speaker 1: delicious carbonated, which is which is an excellent transition to

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Speaker 1: Max whatever. His last name is a perfect segue, if

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Speaker 1: you will. So for those who are just joining us,

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Speaker 1: this is a second episode about Red Bull, second of

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Speaker 1: our two parter, focusing on the drivers and what would

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Speaker 1: I what I would consider to be probably the most

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Speaker 1: interesting driver pairing in that I don't necessarily feel like

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Speaker 1: they are competing against each other. But we will get

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Speaker 1: into why that happened and why that exists. From my

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Sports Illustrated Studios, this is choosing sides. One. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I have to admit, as a sports fan, there's something

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Speaker 1: extraordinarily contradictory about watching teammates pass each other it's still

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Speaker 1: I still can't kind of comprehend it because they're on

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Speaker 1: the same team, but yet they're racing, so that that

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Speaker 1: that's a very complicated but also cool factor of Formula One.

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Speaker 1: I would say it's more one way at Red Bull.

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Speaker 1: You know, we don't we don't see Sergio Perez, also

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Speaker 1: known as Checho passing Max, but we definitely see quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of Max at times passing passing Checko. But

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Speaker 1: we'll get into that. So yeah, So our two drivers today,

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Speaker 1: we have reigning World driver's champion Max for Stappin, and

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Speaker 1: then we have Sergio Perez. Sergio Perez is also often

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Speaker 1: called Checko, so you can use those names interchangeably, but

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Speaker 1: he's more often than not called just Checko. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna start with Max for Stappin, partially because he is

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Speaker 1: the reigning world champion and he got that title through

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Speaker 1: a little bit of an upset. Do you remember when

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Speaker 1: we talked about Louis Hamilton's with Mercedes, we discussed how

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Speaker 1: he's into a million things. He does fashion, he loves

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Speaker 1: his dog, he you know, he's got tattoos, into social activism.

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Speaker 1: I would say Max for Stappen, Max Verstappen is the

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Speaker 1: complete opposite end of the spectrum. He has essentially been

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Speaker 1: engineered from birth to be a Formula One driver. That

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Speaker 1: is all he's about, that is all he thinks about.

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Speaker 1: I remember interviewing him at the end of the sixteen

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Speaker 1: season and he said, if someone gives me a car

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Speaker 1: fast enough to win, I will be world champion. This

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Speaker 1: is Jenny Gal, a long time F one journalist. There's

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Speaker 1: no butts with Maxi verstapp and he knows he's good enough.

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Speaker 1: He just needed a car and now he has it.

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Speaker 1: So he's a very intriguing character, the antithesis of Sir

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Speaker 1: Lewis Hamilton's inasmuch as he does turn up on a

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Speaker 1: race weekend. He hates talking to the media. Just already

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Speaker 1: stopped about this because it's we had so many questions

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Speaker 1: about this ridiculous. He gets into his car as quickly

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Speaker 1: as he can, he drives some laps around and then

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Speaker 1: he leaves the track and you don't hear of him,

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Speaker 1: you don't see him. He doesn't have any kind of

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Speaker 1: huge online presence. Tennis has these people, and I can't

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Speaker 1: stand these people in my in the sport of tennis

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Speaker 1: because they just are engineered robots, fun to watch and

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Speaker 1: amazing at this skill set. But then it's like, what

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Speaker 1: else life is this, you know, buffet of emotions and

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Speaker 1: interests and hobbies and people in my opinion, and they's

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Speaker 1: just not how they live their life. What what? What

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Speaker 1: nationality is Max? He is Dutch and he was He

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Speaker 1: was the first Dutch Formula One driver to ever win

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Speaker 1: a Grand Prix. They fucking love Max for staffid in

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Speaker 1: back in the Netherlands, like they are obsessed with him.

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Speaker 1: They're a small country. They go very hard for their athletes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got a couple of pictures here to show you.

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Speaker 1: Uh looks like a race picture racing car driver. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know what, his face, it's just not the warmest,

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Speaker 1: most likable looking face. I don't know what you're saying

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Speaker 1: is Max is starting out at a bit of a

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Speaker 1: deficit for you. Actually, I did find some photos of

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Speaker 1: him smiling for you, which might also be a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a foreign look. So I have Max on

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Speaker 1: the left it's him current day, and then on the

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Speaker 1: right is when he entered F one as a teenager.

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Speaker 1: It looks like the face is not meant to smile.

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Speaker 1: It looks like like like if someone had to punch

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Speaker 1: in into a computer software. Okay, Max, smile and the

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Speaker 1: pressed enter. I'm being very hard on this young champion man.

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Speaker 1: He looks so young, still got acne on his face.

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Speaker 1: But um interested to hear more about him because my

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Speaker 1: initial reaction is like he reminds me of of a

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Speaker 1: racing robot. You're not incorrect in terms of what other

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Speaker 1: people have said. So to understand Max Verstappen, it's actually

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Speaker 1: very important to understand his father, a man named Yos

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Speaker 1: first Appen Yos Jos Yas Firs. Stepping actually was also

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Speaker 1: a Formula one driver, though not a particularly successful one.

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Speaker 1: He's actually known for a race where back in the day,

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Speaker 1: during pit stops, drivers used to come in get their

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Speaker 1: tires change and actually refuel and on one such occasion

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Speaker 1: his team pulled out you know, the the gas pump

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Speaker 1: refueling stuff early and his car set ablaze with Yas

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Speaker 1: for Steppen in it an interesting, interesting legacy to leave.

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Speaker 1: But basically Yas has the son Max. And aside from

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Speaker 1: day one that Max Verstappen is going to be the

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Speaker 1: F one driver, he never was. He's going to conquer

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Speaker 1: the sport and and that's just how it's it's going

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Speaker 1: to be. Stappen was quite an abrasive character, and he

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Speaker 1: used that sort of aggression that you know parent on

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Speaker 1: the touch line shouting at their child, screaming for them

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Speaker 1: to get a goal. He used that psyche to to

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Speaker 1: get the best out of Max to sta happened, and

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Speaker 1: it was a harsh upbringing. I'm not going to assign

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Speaker 1: judgment on this, but just to list some things. He

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Speaker 1: has been accused of assault and domestic violence by several

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Speaker 1: former partners, including Max's mother. Uh In twelve, he was

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Speaker 1: actually arrested on attempted murder charges for allegedly trying to

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Speaker 1: run over the next girlfriend, though those charges were eventually dropped.

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Speaker 1: And I will say the way that Max talks about

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Speaker 1: his childhood, it's very awkward in that Max will describe

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Speaker 1: it in very folksy nostalgic terms. But then the stories

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Speaker 1: he's telling, you're just kind of as an adult sitting

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Speaker 1: there like what so. For example, he was once left

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Speaker 1: to the service station because he didn't win a race,

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Speaker 1: and then his mom had to come and pick him up.

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Speaker 1: He also proceeded to for the week following this incident

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Speaker 1: not talked to Max. Now it tears a plenty in

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Speaker 1: that household, but it brought him into this category of

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Speaker 1: being one of the best sports people we've seen in

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Speaker 1: form in a one. Well, now I feel terrible for

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Speaker 1: what I said about Max, because he might be an

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Speaker 1: excellent racer, but what he probably needs is a hug

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Speaker 1: from dad on, some unconditional love. Probably a little therapy,

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Speaker 1: but they all need therapy. But yeah, so, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I think that adds a little more context to why

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Speaker 1: Max is the way he is. I will say, though,

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Speaker 1: that y'as didn't turn out to be correct, that he

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Speaker 1: was a very very good driver from a young age.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was racking up wins left and right

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Speaker 1: all the way back when he was a kid krding.

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Speaker 1: I think he first took him out, first took Max

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Speaker 1: out to kart when he was four or four and

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Speaker 1: a half years old. He's one of these you know,

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning was was a racer. And he

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Speaker 1: has the interesting distinction of remember when we talked about

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Speaker 1: how there are these quote unquote lower lower formulas that

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Speaker 1: you work up from F four F three Formula two,

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Speaker 1: so Max actually went straight from Formula three to Formula one.

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Speaker 1: So he skipped Formula two, and he to this day

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Speaker 1: is the youngest uh F one driver to ever start

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Speaker 1: a race. He was seventeen years old, and then he

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Speaker 1: ended up becoming the youngest driver to ever win a

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Speaker 1: Grand Prix when he was eighteen years old. You are

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Speaker 1: a race winner. Fantastic, what a trade debut, Thank you

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Speaker 1: very much, Christian. So he's a guy who's been golden boy,

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Speaker 1: especially in this one particular team structure since day zero.

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Speaker 1: Pretty much interesting. I like him more and I sympathize

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Speaker 1: with him more now that I know the history, which

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Speaker 1: is which is probably how it is with every human

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Speaker 1: on earth. So practice empathy today, ladies and gentlemen. You

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Speaker 1: never know who the Max for staffands are in your

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Speaker 1: own lives. Uh So, Okay, this probably also doesn't surprise

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Speaker 1: you that Max as a driver can be a little aggressive,

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Speaker 1: more than a little aggressive. That's what he is. Ridiculous heratistically, honestly.

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Speaker 1: And he's also though known for being one of the

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Speaker 1: fastest I mean even again when he was carding, when

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Speaker 1: he was when he was in these lower formulas, was

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Speaker 1: just always known for his speed, and there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of belief back then that even though he would

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Speaker 1: ash or make mistakes. It was like, hey, we can

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Speaker 1: we can really hone this kid's skill and keep the

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Speaker 1: speed and lose all the other the other stuff on

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Speaker 1: the flip side. Max, in addition to being pretty matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, as we've discussed a little bit automaton at times,

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Speaker 1: he has an extreme dislike for the media. Max. Well,

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Speaker 1: i've you had so many accidents. I don't know, and

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Speaker 1: like I said in the beginning of this press conference,

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Speaker 1: I got really tired of all the questions. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think if I get a few more ahead about

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Speaker 1: someone speaking of this Netflix show Drive to Survive, that

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Speaker 1: kind of periodically comes up. He actually declined to participate

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Speaker 1: in season four because they create fake storylines and fake

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Speaker 1: rivalries and he did not like his portrayal. And of

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Speaker 1: course there is some debate over if the portrayal was

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Speaker 1: inaccurate or not. That's a debate everyone can have. But

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Speaker 1: I will say everyone wants you to start streaming. He

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Speaker 1: does get along with quite a few of the drivers

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Speaker 1: around his own age on the grid. He does do

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Speaker 1: twitch streams with them. I love you he can, so

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that he's like a disliked character universally

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Speaker 1: particularly by his peers who actually have to race against him.

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Speaker 1: Good luck, don't don't cry. No, I'll try not to,

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Speaker 1: and I'll see We're gonna take a break and we're

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Speaker 1: right back. Max is the defending world champion, right, Okay?

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Speaker 1: So it I mean, are we rooting for him to defend?

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Speaker 1: Do we like Max, does the sport like Max? Or

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Speaker 1: is he kind of the you know, ugly champion and

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Speaker 1: everyone's kind of hoping someone more marketable comes through. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of controversy over this, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: try to explain it as suscinctly as possible, because when

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Speaker 1: I say they're a little podcast like shows dedicated to

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Speaker 1: this incident or last season series of incidents that led

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Speaker 1: to Max being world champion, like, it would take take

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Speaker 1: a lot of time, you know. And I'm going to

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Speaker 1: also try and say this in a way that doesn't

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Speaker 1: offend everyone who was, in fact a fan who watched

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Speaker 1: last season. So, as we were talking about, Red Bull

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Speaker 1: went through some years where they weren't really in championship

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Speaker 1: contending mode, but in one they finally have a car

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Speaker 1: that is capable of keeping up with Mercedes, and for

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Speaker 1: the first time in many years, there were two separate

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Speaker 1: drivers from two separate teams who were in fact dueling

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Speaker 1: for a championship. Lewis and Max go back and forth

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Speaker 1: the whole season in terms of who's winning, who's up

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Speaker 1: in the points. They have two major crashes that are

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Speaker 1: also hotly debated to this day. One, for instance, involves

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Speaker 1: Max going yet over uh fifty I think it's fifty

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Speaker 1: one g forces into a wall at Silverstone. You then

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Speaker 1: have Max basically crashing over Louis and that little, uh,

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Speaker 1: that like circular thing called the halo that you see

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Speaker 1: over the cars that saved Louis from having his head

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Speaker 1: crushed by Max's car. The fans are just bit like

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Speaker 1: feral at this point. Racist messages, including monkey emojis and

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Speaker 1: other racial abuse came off to Hamilton's fought back from

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Speaker 1: a ten second panel. Racist abuse directed at Lewis Hamilton's

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Speaker 1: is unacceptable, and we've removed a number of comments from Instagram.

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Speaker 1: The one thing I think all fans can agree on

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Speaker 1: is that race control. You know, the f I A

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Speaker 1: these kind of people who govern over the sport. We're

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Speaker 1: really not set up to referee or moderate a good

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Speaker 1: championship battle. They hadn't had one in years there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of inconsistencies about certain penalties being called for

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Speaker 1: certain drivers or teams or situations not others. People were

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Speaker 1: not fans generally of how the season was reft, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, and so we somehow end up, through a

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Speaker 1: variety of means, getting to the last race of last

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Speaker 1: season and Lewis and Max are completely tied in the points. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: perfect storm, right, you're just sitting there. It was must

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Speaker 1: must watch TV. I was in Costa Rica for a wedding,

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Speaker 1: and I was up after the wedding, you know, the

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Speaker 1: next morning like six and am to watch what was

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Speaker 1: about to unfold. We've been waiting for this whole season long,

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Speaker 1: the finale, the title decide under the lights here and

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Speaker 1: abbys abby. It slides down away. Lewis is ahead, He's

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Speaker 1: doing well for much of the race. For the first

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Speaker 1: you know, fifty or so laps, it's really looking like

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Speaker 1: a Louis win. Then with only a couple of laps

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Speaker 1: to go in the final race of the season, a

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Speaker 1: driver from your Darling team Williams, a man named Nicholas

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Speaker 1: Latifi crashes and when there's a crash where they need

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Speaker 1: to clear the debris, in the car and make sure

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Speaker 1: the driver's okay. They usually issue what's called a safety car.

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Speaker 1: Basically the drivers have to slow down. You know, it

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Speaker 1: forced them to get to the side of the track.

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Speaker 1: They can't be passing anyone. You know. The whole idea

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Speaker 1: is to keep the race going. Why aren't we getting

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Speaker 1: these from lap cars out of the way and just

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Speaker 1: keep close Christian, just keep me a second. You know,

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Speaker 1: Lewis is in first place, Max is in second, but Max,

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Speaker 1: because of where they were in the race, is actually

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Speaker 1: behind several cars who Lewis had lapped, and so normally,

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Speaker 1: you know, it takes a little time, even if you're

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Speaker 1: faster on these cars to get around them. That's just

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Speaker 1: how race car driving works. What ends up happening is

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Speaker 1: that the race director, this guy named Michael Massey whose

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Speaker 1: name is now living in infamy. Essentially, Michael Massey makes

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Speaker 1: a call where he allows Max to kind of go

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Speaker 1: ahead of these lap cars and not they call it

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Speaker 1: unlapping themselves, so he doesn't have to fight around them

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Speaker 1: because they're on the last lap of the race. This confusion,

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Speaker 1: but the safety car is coming in at the end

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Speaker 1: of this lap, so they those backmarkers allowed, So I

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Speaker 1: would say the safety car, and Michael Massey makes this

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Speaker 1: decision because they want a race to actually happen. And

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Speaker 1: the big problem with this for Stefan has the faster,

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Speaker 1: fresher tires. We've talked about tire strategy and all these

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Speaker 1: other things that go into a Formula One race. So

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Speaker 1: Max actually has fresher tires than Lewis. So obviously, given

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Speaker 1: that his tires are a lot newer, he's able to

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Speaker 1: pass Lewis Hamilton's on the last lap. He's gonna make

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Speaker 1: the luge inside how about it? Says it coming, it's

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Speaker 1: a light large barbs dapper and wins the Formula One

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Speaker 1: Championship for the driver's title. Let's started with controversy, has

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Speaker 1: ending with controversy. Biking no no. Mike Mercedes still wins

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Speaker 1: the Constructor's Championship, but he denies Louis his eighth world title,

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Speaker 1: which would make him the winningest driver in in Formula

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Speaker 1: history definitively, and that's Max's win. The problem is his

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Speaker 1: his world title for season comes with this weird asterisk, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like it's this weird sort of setup where it's like,

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Speaker 1: well he's not even allowed. Yeah, So this has created

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of drama after the fact.

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Speaker 1: We're breaking news to bring you from the world of

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Speaker 1: Formula One. This time the f i A say that

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Speaker 1: Michael Massey has lost his role as the current race director.

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Speaker 1: They put him in another position in the f i A.

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Speaker 1: He's just not race direct right. Yeah, but I mean this,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't matter to me. If you're a race director,

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Speaker 1: the head of Formula One, there should just be systems

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Speaker 1: in place that that doesn't even allow that. That's like saying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: NBA teams, we had someone run on the court, but

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Speaker 1: now you get ten extra points. I mean it's just nuts. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That being said, did Max do anything wrong? I think

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Speaker 1: no one would would argue that Max isn't capable of

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Speaker 1: winning a World Driver's title. Right. He was right in

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Speaker 1: there all season. He's had some phenomenal races. Just a

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Speaker 1: fast guy. And look, I also personally, just speaking for myself,

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Speaker 1: I do not fault Max for taking advantage of the

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Speaker 1: situation he was given, right, you gotta he did. He'd

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Speaker 1: exactly what they said there. I think you can you

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Speaker 1: can get past these cars having to fight them for it.

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Speaker 1: You know, he had fresher tires, which again was just

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Speaker 1: a lucky strategic call and it it was just one lap left.

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Speaker 1: There's one lap left when the safety car was taken out. Also,

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Speaker 1: Lewis allowed himself to be overtaken. Well, he was just

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Speaker 1: not his car wasn't gonna be as fast as with

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Speaker 1: tires that were old. So so then you could make

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Speaker 1: the argument, and I'm playing Devil's advocate both sides here,

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Speaker 1: you can make the argument that Max and his team

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Speaker 1: managed the car are better exactly. Yeah, I can just

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Speaker 1: say they lucked out. They're able to get new tires

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Speaker 1: on at a time. You know, they obviously don't know

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Speaker 1: that Nicholas latif he's going to crash into a wall

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Speaker 1: with a couple of laps left. So that's I would

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Speaker 1: say Max's deal. So in terms of how Max is

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Speaker 1: doing coming into this two season, I will say he

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Speaker 1: had a rough start the first race. Both Red Bull

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Speaker 1: cars end up not finishing, and Max was understandably not

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Speaker 1: pleased as the rating world champion who already has a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a chip on his shoulder coming in

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Speaker 1: as of this recording. Things got a lot better after

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Speaker 1: those first couple of races. He has been called dominant

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Speaker 1: by some in the press this season. There's still a

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Speaker 1: lot of two season to go, so it's definitely too

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Speaker 1: early to just call it. But I think if Max

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Speaker 1: was hoping to have a season where no one could

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Speaker 1: dispute that he was the champion, He's definitely on his

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Speaker 1: way to getting there where there wouldn't be a single

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Speaker 1: asterisk or any weirdness or a keyness around him taking

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Speaker 1: that title. We'll be right back after this break. It

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Speaker 1: will be faster than a red bull pit stop. Who's

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the garage, So across the

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Speaker 1: garage we have Sergio Checko Perez, who has a completely

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Speaker 1: different vibe than backs for staffing in every way, shape

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Speaker 1: or form. So the quick stats Checko is thirty two

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Speaker 1: years old as of this recording. He is a father

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Speaker 1: too too soon to be three kids. He's married, and

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Speaker 1: he's from Mexico, and that's a big deal for many reasons,

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Speaker 1: including sponsorship wise, checko career in general has been largely

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Speaker 1: funded by Carlo Slim, the billionaire, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: his companies sponsored Checko, so you'll see the Claro logo

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Speaker 1: on all sorts of stuff over the years. That's also

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Speaker 1: been actually a reason why Checko has sometimes been preferred

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Speaker 1: over other drivers by teams. Is Hey, this guy's gonna

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Speaker 1: bring all this money, especially money that we don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: see into the sport. You mean Latin American money, exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you know, Carlo Slim isn't sponsoring any other drivers

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Speaker 1: in the same way he's sponsoring Checho Perez. Uh. Something

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Speaker 1: else about Checko He is very Catholic. At one point

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Speaker 1: he kept a photo of the late Pope John Paul

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Speaker 1: the Second in his F one car. Yes, baby, you

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Speaker 1: know what, whatever keeps you safe, whatever it gives you

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Speaker 1: that little bit of edge you have, it's superstition or

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Speaker 1: something like he it seems to work for him. He's

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Speaker 1: has one of the longest careers currently. Yeah, I love

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Speaker 1: that about him. I love that he's thirty two. I

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Speaker 1: love that family seems to be important. And this is

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Speaker 1: based off of what you've just told me. I don't

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Speaker 1: really know what these guys do them their private time,

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Speaker 1: but so yeah, So, as I said, Checho has one

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Speaker 1: of the longest running careers, especially enough one right now.

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Speaker 1: So he's been in the sport for well over a decade, which, again,

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Speaker 1: in a sport where every race could be your last

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Speaker 1: is pretty impressive. Impressive. Why has Checko stuck around for

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Speaker 1: so long? Really? Why has Checho stuck around? So? A

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Speaker 1: couple of things. One, he does have great sponsorship with

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Speaker 1: people like Carlo Slim. So if you're bringing in money,

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Speaker 1: you know you can afford to have a little more

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Speaker 1: wiggle room in terms of if things aren't going perfectly

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Speaker 1: or super swell. But what do you mean you're bigging

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Speaker 1: in money because because it's not like the Formula One

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Speaker 1: gets the money from from Slim, you're saying because he

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Speaker 1: is funded or because he makes money from the endorsements

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Speaker 1: that somehow I don't understand. So a lot of times

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Speaker 1: these sponsors for individual drivers, that money goes to the team,

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Speaker 1: So they bring in money for the teams. They might say,

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Speaker 1: you know, hey, Carloston will say I'm gonna give Red

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Speaker 1: Bull thirty million dollars or whatever it is, and they'll say, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a huge chunk of change. That helps a

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Speaker 1: lot exactly. So so if you have some of these sponsors,

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Speaker 1: it can just get you a little bit more more

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Speaker 1: time if things aren't going well. He's a driver who

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Speaker 1: came into Formula One as a page driver, He didn't

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Speaker 1: get into forming one purely based on you know, office talent.

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Speaker 1: This is f one expert I'll just kevlowskis. But the

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Speaker 1: reason why I'm a fan of him is that very

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Speaker 1: quickly we realized this guy is not here just off

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Speaker 1: the back of his money. He has got talent, and

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Speaker 1: no one calls him a paid driver anymore. The way

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Speaker 1: he's been going around teams, he has been there for

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Speaker 1: a reason. He had to grind his way. He's not

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Speaker 1: a household name like a maximust happen. But yeah, he

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Speaker 1: finally got into Red Bull, you know the team that

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Speaker 1: is basically Max's team. Everyone knew it, there's no kind

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Speaker 1: of denying it. So check is known as a very

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Speaker 1: consistent driver and a well rounded driver, but in particular

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Speaker 1: he can be really really good at defending pack up,

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Speaker 1: brilliant job, brilliant the stuff. And he's also very good

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Speaker 1: at things like tire conservation, which means if they say, hey, Checko,

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Speaker 1: we need you to kind of last out on the track,

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Speaker 1: we we can't pit stop you for another like twenty

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Speaker 1: laps and and you know this will help our strategy,

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Speaker 1: particularly to help another driver win. We need you to

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Speaker 1: just make sure, you don't, you know, blow through your

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Speaker 1: tires or do something, you know, make them too cold

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Speaker 1: or too hot. He's very good at just staying out

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Speaker 1: there and doing whatever they need him to do. So

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Speaker 1: for a team, you know, having a reliable, consistent, solid

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Speaker 1: driver who you know might not be the you know,

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Speaker 1: a Max for Staffen in terms of quickness, but but

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Speaker 1: it's still very fast and can do well. You know,

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Speaker 1: having that that reliability can be super great for a team.

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Speaker 1: So what makes the Checko and Max dynamic very interesting

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Speaker 1: is the fact that they actually get along. It's been

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Speaker 1: really enjoyable working with Checko. I think we respect each

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Speaker 1: other a lot. We helped the team forward because we

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Speaker 1: always trying to love for the same thing. It's been

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Speaker 1: a really enjoyable ownership. Yeah, seems like Max is definitely

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Speaker 1: benefiting from this relationship. Obviously, I'm sure about to be like,

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Speaker 1: what does check out of it? But so, what's interesting

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Speaker 1: about Red Bull They've always had issues with their two

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Speaker 1: drivers not getting along, having you know, inner team rivalries,

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Speaker 1: having them you know, funk up each other's races and

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Speaker 1: whatnot over these rivalries, and and all of these issues

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Speaker 1: only multiplied when Max for Staffen came in as this

428
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: chipper young teenager, and Red Bull made it very clear

429
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: that this was their dude for like the foreseeable future,

430
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: Like they were putting all the eggs in the Max

431
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: for Staff in basket. So, as we've discussed, most teams

432
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: have a number one and number two driver, and that's

433
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: kind of the dynamic, and understandably, most people do not

434
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: want to be a number two driver. You wouldn't be

435
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: an F one unless you were gunning for that world title.

436
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: There's no point in being in the sport. So what

437
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: started to happen is a very popular driver named Daniel Ricardo,

438
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: who will meet very very soon. But Dania Ricardo was

439
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: a longtime Red Bull driver. He was part of their

440
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: you know young driver development program, very well known and

441
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: very well liked by the public. He announces he's leaving,

442
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: and a big part of that reason is he started

443
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: to feel like despite his own successes, despite being older

444
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: than Max for Staff, in having more wins, etcetera, he

445
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: was being kind of edged out and kind of made

446
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: to be the number two. So Daniel Ricardo leaves kind

447
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: of somewhat unexpectedly, Red Bull fills that seat with another

448
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: driver who we will talk about soon named Pierre Ghastly.

449
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: Uh remember when we said that Red Bull will happily

450
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: just yank people from seats. Well, Pierre had a rough

451
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: start taking over that number two seat to Max, and

452
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: he is yanked, not even necessarily like halfway. They proceed

453
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: to put another driver who now actually races for your

454
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 1: team Williams, named Alex Alban. He also, like the revolving

455
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: door continues. He's out within a year and a half,

456
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: and interestingly, both Alex and Pierre their careers did suffer

457
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: as a result, so Pierre was dropped down to that

458
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: sister team which then was called Toro Rosso now Alpha Towery.

459
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: Alex Alban actually was taken out of the sport of

460
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: f one for a year. He's only just come back,

461
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: so so their careers were damaged by that would then

462
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: be can't became known as the cursed number two seats, right,

463
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: the cursed Red Bull number two seat. So of course

464
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: Red bulls aware that they're starting to get this reputation.

465
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: They also are aware that, hey, it seems, you know,

466
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: this is just not us. Pulling from our current stable

467
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 1: of drivers is not working out quite well. So they

468
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: pull a very interesting move and they bring in Checko.

469
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: I think if you go into its team knowing that

470
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: you are a number two driver, there is something about

471
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: that in your headspace that makes it acceptable to you.

472
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: That was Jenny Go again. You know you are there

473
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: is a supporting role, and at Red Bull they clearly

474
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: define that. I think Sergey Paris knows that he is

475
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: fortunate to have found himself in a championship winning car.

476
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: He's getting paid a lot of money to be there,

477
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: and some drivers can make peace with that better than others. Now,

478
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: whether Paris has made peace with that entirely, I doubt it,

479
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: but you never know. Maybe I just googled check out

480
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: Pere's salary and it says eight million a year, and

481
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: it says Max million a year. Yeah, and they think

482
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: it's more for Max, now okay, and you know there's

483
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: still endorsements. I mean, he's the other thing is getting

484
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: paid very well. Yes, I mean I would be second

485
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: fiddle for a lot less than that. But the reason

486
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: I'm not first fiddle in anything is because I don't

487
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: have that ego that that gets you in informing the

488
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: one seat at all um. But I do think as

489
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: you get older, as you have kids, you start to go,

490
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: I love racing, I love my job. I love the

491
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: collaboration of a team moving towards a specific goal. And

492
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: maybe it also I love eight million dollars. I'm sure, Checko,

493
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure all that plays in totally. He's a real

494
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: team player as a driver. Motorsports journalist Hazel Southwell, people

495
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: who've seen Drives five might not realize this because it

496
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: wasn't quite portrayed very well in the show. Um, he's

497
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: also someone who has managed to not get totally crushed

498
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 1: by the existentially destructive experience of being Max Verstaffen's teammate. Um,

499
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: which you know he's the first. Yeah, like I said,

500
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: it will be interesting to see at what point Red

501
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: Bull says, Hey, we're ready to kind of dip back

502
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: into our pool of young talent. And I've always said

503
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting when they find the new

504
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: max for stepping and current max for stapping is no

505
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: longer the it guy. What happens, It'll always be interesting

506
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: in sport when the max for stapping is then asked

507
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: to become the Checho Perez. That'll always be fun. So, Michael,

508
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: we have spent two episodes now talking about Red Bull.

509
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: You now know about two teams on the grids the

510
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: way there. First of all, what do you think of

511
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: Red Bull as a team, and what do you think

512
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: of these drivers? That's that's the that's my empty red Bull.

513
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: I finished a Red Bull this episode. I don't like Christian.

514
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: He seems like a whiny over ACTI team principal. Uh Max,

515
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: I'm not in love with either. Okay, to be specific,

516
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: he seems like a lot of these tennis kids I

517
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: grew up with that all they knew had it was

518
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: to play tennis. But then you'd ask them the most

519
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: simple question, like locate England on a map, and they

520
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: don't even They couldn't do anything. They couldn't do anything else.

521
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm just really distilling it down here. Love

522
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: the Checko Perez character. Love that he's a family man,

523
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: Love that he's willing to play defense for the young

524
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: up and comer who who you know, has already arrived

525
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. I love a great team player,

526
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: and I find it interesting that you you like I

527
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: don't know if i'd say both George and Checho are underdogs,

528
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: but these sort of not the champion dies on both

529
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: for sure. I mean, I I like the people that

530
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: get the least amount of credit that I think really

531
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: do the dirty work. I have always liked those people

532
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: in sport, the Scottie Pippens, you know. Uh, and I

533
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: hope they sleep well at night because they are world

534
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: class at their endeavor. But they're just not getting the

535
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: same credit that the other person. So I find it

536
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: all very interesting. And what I do love about the

537
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: Red Bull team is that this is not Lexis, this

538
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: is not Mercedes, this is not Croquet. This is a

539
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: working class energy drink for truckers, do you know what

540
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: I mean? So I like, I really do like that. Uh.

541
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: And I also think Christian is doing a lot of

542
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: what team principal head coaches need to do, which is

543
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: I am gonna lead by example for the belief in

544
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: the competitiveness that I want you to have. So he's

545
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: very you know, extroverted in his display of that. So

546
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: he leads by example. The question is if we like

547
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: the example. Yeah, I don't know if I like the example,

548
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: And I think it's a lot of bark. But uh,

549
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: but I can see now thanks to you, Lily, why

550
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: this Mercedes Red Bull rivalry is really fun. Yeah. Yeah,

551
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: it's just so different in a lot of ways. So

552
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: how are you feeling when you compare a Mercedes to

553
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: a Red Bull? Yeah? Well, I I used the word

554
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: class and I said that I felt like Team red

555
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: Bull was lacking that. And I would probably still stick

556
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: with that, and I would say that Mercedes probably on

557
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: on brand for them, feels like they they have class.

558
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: If I had to pick between these two teams right now,

559
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to contradict myself. I would probably go with Mercedes.

560
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: Is that interesting? Not? Need to need more? I need?

561
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: I need more teams. You need, need more teams, I

562
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: need more teams. Um, I've got a feeling I'm going

563
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: to pick a different team than these two. Well, you know,

564
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: we don't rock into Williams for a while. Yeah, I know,

565
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: But I like Williams, but I have no idea why

566
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: I like. So who's next week? So next week we

567
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: have our final two parter and we're talking about the

568
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: most historic team on the grid, not Williams. We are

569
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: talking about Ferrari. Yes, I mean I used to have

570
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: Ferrari posters up in my bedroom as a kid. There

571
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: we go. So Ferrari is the only team on the

572
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: F one grid that has participated in every single year

573
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: of the official Formula One Championship going back to So

574
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: we've got a team with history, we've got some very

575
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: very hot Italian tempers, we've got controversial leadership. We have

576
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: got an interesting pairing of drivers who are probably the

577
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: most evenly matched on the grid, which is going to

578
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: create some some fireworks. And they actually have a car

579
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: that might challenge for the championship this year. So we've

580
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: got a really fun two episodes coming all about the

581
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: most venerable team on the grid theoretically. I can't wait

582
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: to learn about it. Excellent. This has been Choosing Sides

583
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: f one, a production of Sports Illustrated Studios and I

584
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. The show was hosted by Michael Costa and

585
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: Lily herb. This episode was produced by Lily Herman and

586
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: our senior producer hi Mi Taal, who also did the

587
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: sound design at the Cutting Room Studios. We are recorded

588
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: by engineer Robot Leary. The second mastering by Cello Weisblu.

589
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: Max Miller is the executive producer and Brannan get Us

590
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: his head of Audio at s I Studios. At I

591
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, Sean Titone is our executive producer for more

592
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

593
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and don't

594
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: forget to rate us and tell your friends. It'll mean

595
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: a lot