Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Oliver Crook now standing by with Senator Elyssa slock In,
Speaker 2: the Democrat from Michigan, has just arrived in Munich as
Speaker 2: part of a codell with some very important topics to discuss. Oliver,
Speaker 2: Thanks for bringing us this conversation over to you.
Speaker 1: Great. Thanks.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, we're very pleased to be joined by Alyssa Slockin,
Speaker 3: the Democratic Senator from Michigan today joining us from the
Speaker 3: sidelines of the Munich Security Conference. I'd like to talk
Speaker 3: about foreign policy America standing on the global stage. You know,
Speaker 3: I've been here for the last twelve months covering Europe.
Speaker 3: Ever since JD Vance's speech, it has been a conversation
Speaker 3: completely monopolized by the sort of maga foreign policy that
Speaker 3: is the America that Europe has got. There is another America.
Speaker 3: You are here as an emissary of that America. What
Speaker 3: does that America say to your European partner?
Speaker 1: We I think there's a lot of us who are here,
Speaker 1: certainly from the Senate and the House, to send the
Speaker 1: message that not everyone agrees with the approach that this
Speaker 1: president is taking. Right that my president is taking which
Speaker 1: is kick your allies and the teeth and cozy up
Speaker 1: to your adversaries.
Speaker 4: It's the opposite of what many of us were being
Speaker 4: where we're taught and how we lived.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, we wanted to send the
Speaker 1: message that the United States is going through something.
Speaker 4: We know it, you all know it. Europeans know what.
Speaker 4: Everyone in the world knows that we are having a real.
Speaker 1: Crisis in the United States. And I do believe we're
Speaker 1: going to come through it. But in the meantime, it's
Speaker 1: only natural that you question what we're doing, why we're
Speaker 1: doing it, and who it helps.
Speaker 3: And so you've had a great deal of meetings already,
Speaker 3: you will have a great many more over the next
Speaker 3: couple of days. What are the questions that the Europeans
Speaker 3: are at.
Speaker 1: The minute they get you in the room and close
Speaker 1: the door, they're just like, what is going on in America?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: I mean, sort of not believing in themselves. And I think, again,
Speaker 1: I try to explain it's not that anyone's missing it,
Speaker 1: what is happening and how I think we come out
Speaker 1: of it, which is like I still believe that the
Speaker 1: American public does not want an authoritarian leader.
Speaker 4: We don't want a king.
Speaker 1: Our whole country is based on that, and there are
Speaker 1: certain barometers we have for authoritarianism, and we're just we're
Speaker 1: going to come out of it.
Speaker 4: It's just going to take a bite.
Speaker 3: And on the other side of that fight. You know,
Speaker 3: obviously Trump will not be a president forever, even if
Speaker 3: for some of the people in this room that they
Speaker 3: may feel that way. In what ways do you think
Speaker 3: that American stature on the global stage has been permanently damaged?
Speaker 3: Because I can tell you that over the last twelve
Speaker 3: months of the Europeans really wanted to take a sort
Speaker 3: of optimistic view of kind of how things could materialize.
Speaker 3: Then there was the Greenland episode, and it feels that
Speaker 3: a sort of moment of trust there has been broken
Speaker 3: in a severe way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, Look, I think it takes a long
Speaker 1: time to build trust in an.
Speaker 4: Instant to lose it.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm someone who my father came on the
Speaker 1: beaches of Normandy with the American troops, Like I believe deeply.
Speaker 4: That America has a good role to play.
Speaker 1: That we are, you know, in a long term relationship
Speaker 1: with Europe and that's to the benefit of all all
Speaker 1: of us.
Speaker 4: But when you start acting erratically.
Speaker 1: When you act like a mad and no one knows
Speaker 1: what you're going to do next, they can't trust to.
Speaker 4: Make a deal with you, to sign up for something.
Speaker 1: You know, when you insult the soldiers of the countries
Speaker 1: that have been in coalition with US in Iraq and Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: places that I have served, you understand why people say, well,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, what do we do this for?
Speaker 4: And the United States needs friends. There's a globalized world.
Speaker 1: We need as many friends as we can have, and
Speaker 1: alienating our friends is actually bad.
Speaker 4: For our national security.
Speaker 3: There's another side of these Trump foreign policy that has
Speaker 3: actually been quite effective. And actually, if you speak to
Speaker 3: some of the people in the room, they said that, yes,
Speaker 3: it's true Europe has not been paying its way, and
Speaker 3: we should say that that's something that the United States
Speaker 3: has put pressure on since Obama, but it has never
Speaker 3: really delivered a change until this sort of very aggressive policy.
Speaker 3: Do you think that there is something too that you
Speaker 3: needed a sort of Trump level event in order to
Speaker 3: get that out of Europe?
Speaker 1: Well, look, I wish it wasn't done in the way
Speaker 1: it was done, but I used to come here as
Speaker 1: a Pentagon official and a CIA Officer Cumna Munich and
Speaker 1: say please do more, Please invest more in your own defense.
Speaker 4: The Russians aren't just a threat to us, threat to you.
Speaker 4: They're your neighbors.
Speaker 1: And we got the like, well, it's nice to see you,
Speaker 1: very diplomatic and unfortunately the lesson that's been taught is
Speaker 1: if you club your allies over the head, they will
Speaker 1: eventually give you something more. I don't want that to
Speaker 1: be the lesson, but I have to admit that's what's happened.
Speaker 4: I mean, Putent has helped too.
Speaker 1: But I think that that's not the way we want
Speaker 1: to proceed. We want people to pay their way.
Speaker 3: And a place that potentially the Trump administration does need
Speaker 3: help from the Europeans is on this question of China,
Speaker 3: potentially a collective approach. There have been some high level
Speaker 3: meetings with critical raw materials that have been underway at
Speaker 3: the moment.
Speaker 4: Do you see the sort of.
Speaker 3: Scope for cooperation with the Europeans on the question of China.
Speaker 3: Do you think there's more sort of space that they
Speaker 3: could occupy sort of together with the United States.
Speaker 1: I think there's a ton of room for cooperation with
Speaker 1: the Europeans visa e. China, But we have to have
Speaker 1: our house in order in the United States on what
Speaker 1: we want out of China. And as someone who's from
Speaker 1: a car manufacturing.
Speaker 4: State, every day I'm confused.
Speaker 1: Right, we have more tariffs right now on Canada than
Speaker 1: we do on China. One day we're all about by America.
Speaker 1: The next day Donald Trump's talking about letting in Chinese
Speaker 1: electric vehicles into the United States.
Speaker 4: So we got to get our house in order.
Speaker 1: And I understand why Europeans would be hedging on making
Speaker 1: a deal even though that's absolutely in our best interest
Speaker 1: for both sides.
Speaker 3: And on the question of tariffs, you had this vote
Speaker 3: in the House, bipartisan basically saying that they are not
Speaker 3: in favor of these tariffs with Canada. How do you
Speaker 3: interpret that on as a sort of referendum on Trump
Speaker 3: economic policy?
Speaker 4: And do you think it changes anything? It was a
Speaker 4: big deal.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, bravery sometimes comes in millimeters. We had
Speaker 1: six Republicans who broke with their party and voted with
Speaker 1: Democrats to say the president's sloppy tariff policy isn't good
Speaker 1: and should be repealed and looked at. That opens a
Speaker 1: door to a bunch more votes on tariffs.
Speaker 4: That is a big deal. I'll take it right.
Speaker 1: Do I wish people were stronger and spoke up for
Speaker 1: their local state economies?
Speaker 4: Yeah? But will I take this Yes, And it's definitely.
Speaker 1: I think people looking ahead to the midterms and saying
Speaker 1: he's a boat anchor these tariffs certainly are a boat
Speaker 1: anchor for their reelection.
Speaker 3: What do you think it tells us about what we
Speaker 3: can expect in the midterms. I know we're still some
Speaker 3: since a way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think people are upset.
Speaker 1: They're upset because he said he was going to do
Speaker 1: something about the economy. He's focused more, much more on
Speaker 1: foreign policy.
Speaker 4: He said he was going to bring back jobs.
Speaker 1: Michigan has lost almost more jobs than any other state
Speaker 1: in the country. He just hasn't lived up with the
Speaker 1: things that he campaigned on and has been focused abroad.
Speaker 1: And I think that people want to know what he's
Speaker 1: going to do for them and their lives, and he's
Speaker 1: just not made that his priority.
Speaker 3: And I also wanted to talk about the sort of
Speaker 3: thing it's more squarely on the domestic side, the indictment
Speaker 3: that was attempted against you and a number of fellow
Speaker 3: Democrats that they've obviously elected not to move forward on.
Speaker 3: Just your reaction to that. Do you consider the matter
Speaker 3: to be closed at this stage.
Speaker 4: I don't think anyone considers it closed.
Speaker 1: And we're already hearing rumors that they're going to try
Speaker 1: again to indict us for our guess sedition and just
Speaker 1: to review the bidding. It's a ninety second video that
Speaker 1: just restates current military law that you have a responsibility
Speaker 1: to refuse illegal orders. All of us are service our
Speaker 1: veteran folks, we all served in some capacity, and I
Speaker 1: think you know the president is weaponizing the federal government
Speaker 1: against his perceived adversaries. It's right out of an authoritarian playbook.
Speaker 1: Many Europeans understand that better than most Americans, and I think, uh,
Speaker 1: this is where we've come to in the United States.
Speaker 1: And if they can do it to a setting senator,
Speaker 1: what can they do to a business leader, a community leader.
Speaker 3: Is that where you see the sort of next the
Speaker 3: next line of that sort of progress. Where is it
Speaker 3: a flood to zone tactic or do you consider something
Speaker 3: much sorter?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: I think intimidation is the point.
Speaker 1: It's physical intimidation, and like a month long threats, you know,
Speaker 1: to my home, bomb threats my parents or went after
Speaker 1: and then it's legal intimidation, right, make me pay lots
Speaker 1: of lots of money.
Speaker 4: To have a lawyer and be in this legal legal limbo.
Speaker 4: You do that to the average person, they say, you
Speaker 4: know what, I'm just going to go quiet. I'm not
Speaker 4: going to speak up anymore. I'm not gonna I'm not
Speaker 4: going to shout from the rooftops.
Speaker 1: And I'm just not going to do that because I
Speaker 1: know that he is trying to intimidate, intimidate people to
Speaker 1: be quiet.
Speaker 3: And you've had some sort of words of support from
Speaker 3: of Republicans, perhaps not actions of support. How do you
Speaker 3: interpret that? Is there more do you think that needs
Speaker 3: to be done?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Again, five or six Republicans said, I think the right thing,
Speaker 1: which is, look, you can't go after someone out of
Speaker 1: their freedom of speech, even if they didn't agree with
Speaker 1: the video. And I would never want that for them.
Speaker 1: You know, the tide can turn, Democrats could win again.
Speaker 1: I don't want Democrats saying, oh, we should go after
Speaker 1: Republican senators for a ninety second video. I don't want
Speaker 1: that for anybody. So I appreciate those who stood up.
Speaker 1: I would like there to be more joining them, and.
Speaker 3: Just a sort of final question for you. We obviously
Speaker 3: had the speech twelve months ago from Jadvance that kicked
Speaker 3: off the sort of maga foreign policy that chrystalize of
Speaker 3: the year. What do you expect to hear from Marco
Speaker 3: Rubio tomorrow?
Speaker 1: You know, my sense is they have brought in Marco
Speaker 1: Rubio to kind of smooth the edges. Vance is not here,
Speaker 1: a lot of the hardcore folks, you know, Pete hagg
Speaker 1: Seth isn't here. They brought in the diplomat to try
Speaker 1: and explain what the maga foreign policy is in terms
Speaker 1: that you know, foreign policy people understand. So I'm not
Speaker 1: expecting fireworks the way I mean, I remember sitting there
Speaker 1: listening to j. D Vance's speech last year just with shock,
Speaker 1: and I don't think.
Speaker 4: We're going to hear that.
Speaker 3: I just actually one more final question in terms of
Speaker 3: the sort of U term that we did see on Greenland. Obviously,
Speaker 3: it's an issue that doesn't have a huge amount of
Speaker 3: domestic support, does not have a huge amount of support
Speaker 3: among even in the government of the United States, certainly
Speaker 3: not among allies. What do you think really prompted that
Speaker 3: U turn? What was the thing that really made Trump
Speaker 3: sort of change his mind?
Speaker 1: Is kind to say, you know, your guests may be
Speaker 1: as good as mine. I don't understand what affects him
Speaker 1: and in the dark of night, how he decides, and
Speaker 1: that's I think part of it, right. It's really hard
Speaker 1: to predict what he's going to do and say so
Speaker 1: being friends with him, being an ally of his, is
Speaker 1: really really difficult at this moment.
Speaker 4: It's why we're here.
Speaker 3: Well, listen, Slotkin, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3: Greatly appreciated from the great State of Michigan. The senator
Speaker 3: there today from the munich Security Conference