WEBVTT - Anthology of Horror, Volume 3 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:04.960 Welcome Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of I 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:14.040 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome to Stuff 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.080 to Blow Your Mind. And my name is Robert Gooley Lamb. 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:19.520 I forgot we were doing the voices. Let's see, I 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.720 am what's my name? Also, I'm Corrosive Joseph McCormick exactly. 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:28.480 And we're here with our excellent audio producer Death Nicholas Johnson. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.680 It is Halloween. It is Halloween itself, I believe. Yeah, 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.440 And so we are presenting Anthology of Horror Volume three. 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.720 So this will be a sequel to our two previous 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.680 Anthology of Horror episodes, where we look at old episodes 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.159 of horror anthology TV shows and figure out how they 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.839 might often be deeper than they seem. Yeah, I mean, 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.400 and also sometimes they're not very deep, but we we 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:55.040 have a knack for finding some hidden depth in horror 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.080 and science fiction. Now, in the last episode, which should 0:00:58.080 --> 0:00:59.920 have been just a couple of days ago, we talk 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.560 about an episode of the Twilight Zone concerning how you 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:05.720 can know whether or not you are in a dream 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.720 or whether you are someone else's dream. And we talked 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.680 about an episode of the old horror anthology Monsters that 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.640 featured a story about ghoules called down Below and related 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.600 to that to cities dealing with rat problems. Uh So, 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:22.760 today I think we were going to start by looking 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.399 at an episode of The Outer Limits, right, yes, the 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:30.400 sixth Finger. This is the fifth episode of the first 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.880 season of ABC sci fi anthology series legendary sci fi 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.679 anthology series The Outer Limits, which originally ran from nine 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.520 through nine. It was created by Leslie Stevens, and unlike 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.400 a lot of these shows, he didn't have a true 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.040 horror or sci fi host. It didn't have like a 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:50.840 puppet or an actor that spoke to you and introduced everything. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.160 But it did have the control voice, which in and 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.440 of itself is pretty classic. Explain the control voice. So 0:01:57.600 --> 0:01:59.920 we will control the vertical, we will control the horizontal. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.920 You know, it's like this, this disembodied voice that is 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.680 taking over your television set and presenting you with some 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:10.840 sort of cosmic transmission from the Outer Limits. I see, 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:12.920 Is this the one that's there's no need to adjust 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.919 your television exactly? Okay? I think I for some reason 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.320 confused that I thought that was like an alternate opening 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.440 to the Twilight Zone. Uh no, no, no, that Twilight 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:23.760 zone is always like Rod Serling being like you were 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.919 entering another dimension, yeah, etcetera. Um, Yeah, The Outer Limits 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.320 was definitely more in the in the science fiction domain. 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.000 It was in many ways kind of like the sci 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.200 fi side of the coin to the Twilight Zones horror. 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.680 But it also got a little spooky, a little scary 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.120 at times. Uh, and certainly falls under the domain of 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.200 our our mission statement here. Now wait a second, sorry, 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.280 I just realized that the Outer Limits introduction you're doing here, 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.120 that this might be the first sort of hint or 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.239 attempt at doing a kind of found footage thing. Right, 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.480 it's saying like you are receiving a TRANSMISSI shin. It's 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.119 like implying that you're part of the narrative because your 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.360 TV set is is something's being beamed from another place 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.240 to Yeah, to a limited extent. I mean, once the 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.919 episode starts, it's pretty clear you're still safely in television land, 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.440 but you're also in in a place that still feels 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.360 a little less safe. But this ain't I Love Lucy exactly. 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:21.960 So The Outer Limits went two seasons and produced forty 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.519 nine episodes. Again, it's just always amazing just how robust 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.280 these some of these older seasons television were not all 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.239 of the episodes are classics, but some stand out amid 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.760 the all time greatest achievements in science fiction television even 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.080 today in this sort of golden age of television and 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:43.040 television options. Some of the most famous episodes include, uh, 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.600 for instance, Demon with a Glass Hand, which was scripted 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:49.520 by Harlan Ellison. But The Sixth Finger is also rather iconic. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.200 Like a lot of the episodes, it features some alien 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.640 makeup effects that that are pretty astounding. A lot of 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.800 the alien designs on the Outer Limits uh kind of 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:02.840 you know, leaned into old school ideas of what an 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.080 extraterrestrial might look like. You know, there are a lot 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:09.400 of oversized heads and long ears and whatnot, like the 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.000 brain mutant from the Silent Earth. Yeah. Yeah, so some 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:13.800 of them are a little bit dated, but but they 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:17.400 were still pulled off exceptionally well, shot in black and 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.200 white and and and you know, sometimes with an almost 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.720 avant garde kind of style. That being said, there are 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:25.919 some effects that they pulled off on that show that 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.520 stand up I think really well today. Um, The Galaxy Being, 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.479 I think is an exception where we had like this 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.880 kind of sharp contrast of black and white where it 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.560 seems to be just radiating on the screen. But The 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.760 six Finger was directed by James Goldstone, who also directed 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.200 the pilot for a little show called Star Trek Okay, 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.320 So that's before Kirk is the Captain, right right, Yeah, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.640 And it was written by Ellis St. Joseph, who did 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.599 a lot of TV work in his career, and it 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.680 also started British American actor David McCallum, who starred opposite 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.640 Robert Vaughan in The Man from Uncle. So McCollum stars 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.040 in this episode as the character Griffiths, a Welsh miner 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.240 who agrees to let a rogue scientist named Professor Mathers 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.000 experiment on him, which is of course always a solid 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.320 life choice. Mathers played a role, we're told, in the 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.680 development of atomic weaponry, and he wants to aid humanity instead, 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.840 and so he has invented of means of speeding up 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.000 evolutionary development and he wants to try it out on 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.719 a human being. Now I can say, in the early 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.720 nineteen sixties this would actually be not that far fetched 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:33.200 of a scenario. I mean, I think there were a 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.640 number of scientists who were known at the time to 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.040 have worked on the creation of atomic weaponry who were 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:44.240 deeply publicly regretful of their work even Oh yeah, absolutely, Uh, 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.839 I mean to typified for the most part by the 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:52.080 heavily quoted a bit from from Oppenheimer now and become death, 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:56.560 where he himself is of course to quoting Vedic scriptures. Yeah, 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.080 because certainly the atomic bomb is this uh, you know, 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.160 continues to loom over us as this uh, the symbol 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:07.159 of of of of great human achievements that are put 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.200 to work in in the name of like our worst 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:14.680 impulses as as a species, as a civilization. Totally and 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.080 uh and yes, so the idea of someone involved with 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.279 that wanting to do something that that you know, that 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.560 it saves us, that changes us, that does you know, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.640 that puts us in a different direction. I think that 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.760 that makes perfect sense. And I think a lot of 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.080 people would would agree that. You know, this, this period 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:32.240 of of of nuclear power, you know, is something we 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.400 hope it's it's kind of a bottleneck, right, It's like 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.400 it's a period of extreme danger to the species that 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.559 we hope to move past, we hope to evolve through. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.000 And and certainly, you know, we tend to think of 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:47.320 that evolution as more or less biological and more cultural, 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:52.359 more political. But in a science fiction story, you know, 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.800 it makes sense to go with the more literal interpretation 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:58.680 of that, Like, human beings need to evolve beyond this 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.440 point of extreme danger. So I'm going to put a 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.560 human being inside of a crazy sci fi contraption and 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.360 see what kind of you know, peaceful being comes out 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.920 the other side. Right as you increase our ability to 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.160 destroy ourselves in one another, it seems like every year 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.560 that goes by, we're just sort of like barely eking. 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.960 You know, we're just making it if we don't use 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.080 that power unless you change us somehow, that it would 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.360 be inconceivable to us to use it right now. To 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.000 be clear, evolution, as we've discussed plenty of times on 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.400 the show, is a process of mutation and natural selection 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.960 that takes place across the vast periods of time due 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.520 to various environmental stressors. Would you agree with that You're 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.640 more Darwin's bulldog on this show than I am. I mean, 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.000 our modern picture of evolution I think has become a 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.760 little bit more nuanced, and that we we learn more 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:51.120 and more things that uh that affected like epigenetic factors 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.960 possibly and things like that. But yeah, basically, I mean 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.640 the standard model is that there is variation and then 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.040 there is selection by the environment. And yeah, the big thing, 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.680 of course, the way this happens in nature is it 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:08.080 happens over many generations. The way evolution is often conceived 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.800 of in stories like this is it basically just means 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:15.840 like changing somebody, like changing an individual's body in their lifetime, 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.520 which would be different from biological evolution that would be 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:22.440 more like that I don't know, bioengineering of the body. Yeah. 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:24.400 And and also I mean the other thing too, is 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.080 this this model in this science fiction story it has 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.720 this it kind of implies that there's an exact map 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.840 of our evolution inside of our bodies, inside of our genes. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.840 You know. Is if like we're a Pokemon and you 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.439 can look at a chart saying like how it advances 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:41.880 to its final form if I have my Pokemon reference 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.320 is correct, I don't know my Pokemon all that well. 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.000 But but still yet it implies that there's like a 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.200 certain path that an organism should take and it's all 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.320 written in the genes, as opposed to being this process, 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.720 uh you know, being you know, driven by this process 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.040 of natural selection that depends so heavily upon environment. So 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:00.760 on one hand, it's a tad silly to think that 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.440 some manner of mad science process could simply speed up 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.960 human evolution. But again they're trying to make a statement here, 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.760 so we'll roll with it. Okay. So as Griffith evolves 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.040 and there there, this is a this is a real 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.240 talky by the way, as far as um you know, 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.880 anthology shows Go and Outer Limits tended to be I 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.480 think a little more cerebral than the many of the 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.040 other anthology and you know shows that would come in 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.240 its wake. There's a lot of discussing what this means 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.680 and discussing, uh, you know, how we might apply it 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.920 to our understanding of the world. And so Griffith's you know, 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.360 he goes through these problems like a I guess, a 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.080 treatment of evolution. Then he comes back out and he's changed, 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:39.640 and he talks about it, and he goes back in, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.160 he gets another treatment, he comes back he's even different. 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.679 But basically these are the changes biological and mental that 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.640 take place. Okay, First of all, he gets an extremely 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:55.000 over developed cortex like a giant alien melon head, which 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.839 again is very impressive makeup effects, but at the same 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.120 time it's kind of a dated look for our idea 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.080 of like a far future being Okay, So just to clarify, 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:08.360 basically is the idea that this is naturally how humans 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.680 would evolve if we were allowed to just you know, 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.640 keep living for thousands of years. But the scientist has 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.079 figured out a way to get us there down the 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.680 already mapped path ahead of time, right. I think that's 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.040 what the model is here. We just have to sort of, 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.440 you know, take their word for it on the sci 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.840 fi process that's getting it to us. Sure, so huge 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.120 yet great now, as the title implies, one of the 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.160 other major changes is that there is a sixth finger 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:39.640 on each hand, so a total of twelve digits on 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.760 the hands. Now better to press nuclear launch buttons with 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.560 yeah uh. In addition, long L fears, which you know 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.960 isn't I don't really have a good discussion lined up 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.400 for that, but there are L fears mental powers such 0:10:53.440 --> 0:11:00.679 as telekinesis, vastly enhanced intelligence and ultimately enhanced empathy and understanding, 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.360 And in the original script, he also eventually develops a 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:08.240 means of photosynthitus and lives on pure light and kind 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.080 of transcends into a being of light. In the show, however, 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.640 he attempts to push himself even further in evolution, but 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.679 his wife betrays him out of love and turns him 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.080 back into his original self, you know, turns back the 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.280 dial on the evolution machine to try and get the 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.880 you know, the man that she loves back in the room, 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.240 but the process ends up killing him. It's just too 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.440 much for him. So it all makes for a great 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.800 mad science tale and one that I think works well thematically. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.920 Plus McCallum has that kind of like old school Leslie 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.800 Howard Delivery you know which show, which I really love 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.040 because if you're watching a show like The Outer Limits 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.680 of the Twilight Zone, you do have to you find 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:49.600 a reason to love some of the more you know, 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.760 by today's standards antiquated uh aspects of say acting or 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.520 pacing or even the effects. And Joe, I have a 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.680 picture of of the being here for you and it 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.480 certainly anybody wants to see this. Just look up The 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.760 Outer Limits the Sixth Finger. You can also find it 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.439 on like Hulu or Netflix, streaming pretty much everywhere, but 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.120 you can also find lots of images of this. It's 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.960 very iconic cost him. Okay, so first of all, I 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.080 see the giant melon head and that look that looks 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.560 great because you get so much brain in there. I 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.640 am immediately imagining some problems having to do with birth, 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.920 like the size of the human birth canal, which you 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.240 would have to assume it would also evolve to be 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.840 much bigger to allow a birth of that kind of creature. 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.000 Though I believe it's it's widely thought that we're already 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.160 pretty much it's sort of the limits of what our 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.440 bodies will allow in terms of cranial size, right. I mean, 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:44.200 the the other thing that comes to mind is our 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:48.120 discussions in our episode on brain soup and liquefied brains. Uh, 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.240 the actual size of the brain would not be as 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.840 important as the number of neurons within it. So I 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.920 think by our modern understanding, it was kind of it 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.600 was very much in vogue at the time to to see, 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.480 like you know, outside craniums as being a sign of 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.920 super intelligence and your fictional creatures. But I think nowadays 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.800 we realize that that would not be necessary. But I mean, 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.200 like I already mentioned, this island Earth. It shows up 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.040 in a lot of sci fi from the mid century 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.520 that you've got aliens with huge old heads. I guess 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.040 because they're very smart. But also I like how he's 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:22.959 got extremely defined facial bone structure, Like this guy has 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.160 cheekbones to die for. He does, yes. And then of 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.920 course there are the lf ears, which again we don't 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:30.680 really have anything to say about them. I'm not sure 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:35.200 what point of ears would really accomplish evolutionarily. Oh man, 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.319 this seems like something that has to have been explored 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.000 in a kind of speculative paper, like somebody who's an 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.559 expert on the morphology of the ears and how they 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.760 help you here, how would you hear differently if you 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:47.959 had l f ears. I don't know. We should come 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.160 I bet we should come back to that, because there 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.640 is a good answer for it. Uh. You know, there's 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.120 a whole world of of elve and ear structure that 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.240 we could discuss in the future. But what I want 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.880 to talk about is that extra finger. So we're gonna 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.560 take a quick break, but when we come back, we 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.839 will get into the the five digit rule invertebrate evolution 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:11.040 and we'll discuss the possibility of a sixth finger coming 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:15.760 into play. Than all right, we're back. So we've been 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.640 talking about the classic Outer Limits episode The sixth Finger, 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.920 about a man who speeds up his own evolution within 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.920 his own lifetime, and he gets a gigantic melon head, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.960 he gets really defined facial bones, beautiful cheekbones, he gets 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:34.440 elf ears, but he also grows a sixth finger. And so, Robert, 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.120 you looked into what it would mean to grow a 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.920 six finger? Is that kind of thing possible? Why or 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.280 why would not we? Why wouldn't we see that in 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.960 human evolution or primate evolution? Yeah, it's really it's really 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.320 fascinating because, first of all, the five digit rule does 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.720 run pretty deep invertebrate evolution. According to Michael Coates, Associate 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.600 professor in the Department of Organismal Biology and Anatomy at 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.080 the University of Chicago and co editor of Evolution and 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.040 Development fighting for Scientific American, the condition of having no 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.600 more than five fingers and toes probably goes back before 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:11.680 the evolutionary divergence of amphibians and amniots, birds, mammals, reptiles. 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.720 We were talking three hundred and forty million years ago, 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.760 go back three hundred sixty million years ago, and there's 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:22.440 evidence of tetrapods with six, seven, eight, digits. Uh, the 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.600 the decrease to five or fewer came about alongside the 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:31.880 development of sophisticated wrist and ankle joints. So basically, the 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:37.320 creatures with more digits had simpler skeletons and simpler limb mobility, 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.920 and they were generally, you know, something along the line 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.200 of flippers, because we're talking about creatures of the water here. 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.920 But as these limbs evolved to allow certain organisms to 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:52.000 stand or to push off with those limbs essentially, or 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.120 you know, as they moved towards being land creatures, we 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.440 see the reduction of digits, and indeed we tend to 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.240 see you know, the further reduct of digits because the 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.000 rule of evolutionary thumb here is that it's easier to 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.760 lose something than it is to gain something. Absolutely. I 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.640 mean you can see that with many tetrapod mammals today. 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.560 For example, look at a dog's paw. I mean, they 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.320 have a sort of vestigial other thumb type thing up 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.360 there on the on the leg, but basically they got 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.680 four toes that go go down on the ground. It's 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.720 the what the do claw? Yeah yeah, up there, or 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:28.040 I mean even look at the feet of ungulates. Yeah, 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.480 I mean, horses are a great place to look because 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.480 we see how far it's reduced now. But you know, 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.080 various prehistoric courses had three or four toes. And when 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.120 animals actually do gain digits, well, uh Coats points out 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.960 that the lack of true six toed or six fingered 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.480 creatures in today's fauna quote highlights some sort of constraint. 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.240 For instance, one of the rare cases we see of 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.080 you know, a creature gaining digits is the marine reptile 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:00.040 uh Ethosaurus. This is the these sixty years ago. We 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.280 talked about about them on the show before. They essentially 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.080 are dolphin like creatures, they have that same sort of shape, 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.680 but they they are reptiles um and as a result 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.480 of returning to the sea, they eventually developed paddles that 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.600 sometimes had you know, quite a number of digits in there. Okay, 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.480 so the atheosaurs, like the marine mammals of today, in 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.639 their evolutionary history, went to land and then went back 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.639 to water, right. Yeah, So, which again lines up nicely 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:27.320 with this idea of of as long as you're a 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.679 sea creature, you can have multiple digits within that paddle, 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.360 but when you start using that paddle increasingly again over 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.919 you know, generation after generation after generation. If it's used 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.400 to push off, if it's new used even to hold 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:45.560 up your weight, it becomes increasingly um more beneficial to 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.560 have fewer digits in that at the end of that limb. However, 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.680 we do see creatures like the mole and the panda, 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:57.360 both of which benefit from remodeled wrist bones that essentially 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.960 serve as a sixth finger, but which are not true fingers. 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:03.760 And if you haven't seen a picture of this, I 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.800 encourage everyone to look up pictures of panda's paw or 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:12.080 the the claws of a mole, and you will, you know, 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.080 if you start doing some counting, you'll be like, okay, 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.280 one to three, four, five, and oh, kind of six 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.280 again not a true thumb. But for the panda, for instance, 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.800 it serves as a thumb. It has like the roll 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.920 of a thumb in helping them handle food. The panda, 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:31.120 of course, is the herbivore of the bare world, and 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.160 and the end it has to eat constantly, and therefore 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.399 it has eventually used the point where it needs a 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:40.480 little extra thumblike appendage to get the job done. Meanwhile, 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:45.040 for moles, uh, this extra little thumblike appendage. It helps 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.000 them tunnel through the earth, so being almost more like 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:52.040 a flipper, Yeah, help it swim through the earth. Yeah. 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.000 These are, in Coats's words quote, rather baroque solutions to 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.800 the apparently straightforward task of growing an extra finger. So, 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:01.800 you know, if we're going to think back to our 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.159 outer limits example here, it would be far more likely 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.760 that one would grow some sort of a you know, 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.320 you know, a paddle of a pseudo finger, as opposed 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.960 to growing a full finger, no matter how many keyboards 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.320 you're having to use, no matter you know, how many 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.840 you know, you know, mad science gadgets you're having to 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.680 manipulate with your far future digits. But I want to 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:28.359 talk about another even more amazing example from real world biology, 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:29.960 and for this we have to turn to the world 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.879 of the Lemur. As recently reported in Smithsonian, the I 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:38.119 I Lemur known for its weird looks and its elongated 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.439 middle finger, which it uses to fish grubs out of trees. 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.760 You may have seen this in various documentaries before. It 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.480 looks like a tree goblin and it's I think it 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:53.320 has unfortunately suffered from like superstitious killings in the past, 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.640 but it has this. It's nocturnal and has this fabulous 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.360 super elongated in some people's eyes and man think it's 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.879 creepy middle finger which it uses. You have to fish 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.960 out a grub and uh and then it's it's you know, 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.399 it's this highly specialized digit. And once it gets the 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.120 grub out. I was reading that it will also like 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.520 pluck the top of the grub off and like suck 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.760 the inside of the grub out, like it is just 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:19.080 a highly evolved grub eater. But in addition to this, 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:23.240 it also boasts an extra tiny thumb or pseudo thumb, 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.880 complete with a fingerprint. This according to Adam Hearthstone Rose, 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:33.159 Associate Professor of Biological Sciences at North Carolina State University, 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.040 It's a pseudo thumb made of bone and cartilage, but 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.720 it can be moved in three directions, much like a 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.119 human thumb. Now you might wonder, why, why why is 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.880 this creature so greedy for crazy digits? It already has 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.320 this super elongated specialized digit. What does it need an 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.240 extra digit for? You know what? I realized the II 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.040 hand reminds me of I just looked it up to 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:58.320 see it again. It reminds me of the of klaus 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:02.120 Kinsky's hands in Werner Song's nose fur aw too, he's 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.120 got the long nails and the creepy fingers. Yeah, it does. 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.440 It does seem like a true creature of the night, 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:13.720 doesn't it. But yeah, basically it seems to have developed 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:18.560 this this additional pseudo thumb because the other fingers are 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.960 elongated and specialized. Like essentially it's lost that middle finger 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.320 to specialized usage, and so it has had to develop 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.879 a pseudo thumb to make up for that special specialization. 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:31.640 And to be clear, you'll you'll sometimes find a six 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.880 finger occurring on a human as a as a birth 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.600 to fact, and in fact, since we're celebrating Halloween, it's 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:41.560 worth noting that Hannibal Lecter in the books um has 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.360 an extra digit on his left hand like that that occurs, 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:47.800