WEBVTT - Death & Deceit in Alliance | 1. Dead in the Water 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.120 Hi, There is Steve Fishman from Orbit Media, and we're 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.000 back with a fantastic new true crime series, Death and 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:11.040 Deceit in Alliance. This series is a little different from 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:15.560 others we've done. It's a live investigation, meaning that the 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:20.520 reporter host is publishing information almost at the same time 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.919 she learns it, and we her listeners, side by side 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.240 with her or ear by ear with her, are figuring 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.960 it out as the series unrolls. Luckily, we're in great hands. 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.879 Our host reporter is Maggie Freeling, who is one of 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:41.120 true crime's more interesting creators these days. Maggie won a 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.960 Pulitzer Prize for her work on Suave, a great podcast 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.720 you should check out. She's been a champion of the 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.879 wrongfully convicted since way before it was popular, and in 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:56.960 this show, it's that championing that leads to terrible complications 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:02.520 for the podcast and for herself. It broke me, she says. 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.200 This is Maggie's creator's cut of a show originally released 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.560 in twenty nineteen. For access to all fourteen episodes, ad 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.920 free and all at once, subscribe with Apple Podcasts on 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:15.920 our show page. 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:21.480 Enjoy the Worst Thing that Happened to Me As a 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:27.560 journalist occurred while making this podcast formerly called Murder an Alliance. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.720 In twenty twenty one, myself and two private investigators embarked 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.679 on a real time investigation to see if a convicted 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:41.800 murderer was innocent. For twenty two years, he maintained that 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:46.959 he was. Initially, the case seemed straightforward, a scandal ridden 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:51.080 small town police department who used psychics and coercion to 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.480 get results. I was sure the wrong people were in prison. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:01.280 In fact, I wasn't alone, many journalists did. But once 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:05.360 I was on the ground in Ohio with the pis interviewing, investigating, 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.239 setting up billboards and tip lines, I was not ready 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.560 for what we found. The deeper we dug, the more 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:19.119 unsettling our findings became. I found myself questioning everything. Were 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:24.560 my instincts wrong or was there something actually profoundly off 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:29.239 about this case? The conclusion broke me for a bit, 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.880 But now, almost five years later, I'm staring down this 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:37.120 case once more with a new lens because it remains 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.560 one of the most impactful events of my life. The 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.280 timing of release is also significant because I encounter this 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:50.880 exact issue in my latest investigation called Bone Valley. Graves County. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.120 I encountered a journalist in my reporting who refused to 0:02:55.240 --> 0:03:00.119 discuss his mistakes and instead doubled down. It made me 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.680 think of my own journey, and consequently I thought it 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:08.280 was the perfect time to re examine my mistake instead 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.880 of hide from it. It is crucial to discuss are 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:16.520 all two human fallibilities as journalists. It not only keeps 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:20.120 us honest, but it also keeps us humble. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:22.720 Today. 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.240 Date of July fourteenth, nineteen ninety nine, Wednesday, it's thirteen 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.400 or nine hours. My name is Detective Bud Sampson. We're 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.880 in the we're avent a police department interview room. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:32.680 Along with me. 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.400 Is Detective William Mucklow and Detective John Leach of the 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:39.400 Alliance Police Department. Also in the room is Joseph Isaac 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.080 Book and we're in best getting his honest side of 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.480 Yvonne Lee? Can you tell us you're part in this? 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.600 The tape you're listening to is Joe Wilkes, a nineteen 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.200 year old boy confessing to murder. 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.240 She was like, Hey, what are you doing here? She goes, 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.480 I haven't seen you in a long time. I was like, oh, 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.280 they did, just wanting need to stop buy and see 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:04.480 how things were. And then we're sitting talking for about 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:11.120 three to five minutes, and then okay, I know this 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:11.720 is gonna be hard. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:13.600 We got to go through and you tell me what 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:14.240 happened here. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.200 Where were you sitting when you're sitting upstairs or downstairs? 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.760 We were on the second floor, that the third one. Ok. 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:33.120 And we're still doing the cops talking and story. Okay, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.160 the cheek it up and trying to run why run 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:36.760 up the door? 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.680 Did you try to run up the glass doors? 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:42.440 And then. 0:04:49.040 --> 0:05:03.039 You it's saying we thought it so, Joe just said, 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:13.960 David told me to David as in David Thorn. On 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:18.239 April first, nineteen ninety nine, twenty six year old Yvonne 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.719 Lane was found with her throat slashed dead in her 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:23.280 home in Alliance, Ohio. 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.640 Twenty six year old Ivonne Lane, a beautiful, vivacious woman, 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:30.839 found in a pool of her own blood, her throat 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:32.919 slashed while her children slapped. 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.040 She was discovered by her mother, who had arrived to 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:40.360 take her six year old grandchild to kindergarten. Yvonne was 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.479 a mother to five kids. David Thorn was the father 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.080 of one of the children. Although he and Yvonne were 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:48.120 not together anymore. 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.760 The murder of a mother of five in her own 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.039 home stunt the small town of Alliance, Ohio. 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.960 David had recently been ordered to pay child support three 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.200 hundred and fifty one dollars a month, and Joe said 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.520 in his confession that he was hired by David Thorn 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.040 to kill Yvaughn so he didn't have to pay and 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.240 so he could have his son to himself, the. 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.720 Father of one of the children. The motive child support 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:16.279 Thorn was ordered to pay. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:21.000 To the untrained listener at one point myself too. This 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:26.000 seems like a pretty clear cut case, someone confessing and 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.800 someone with a motive. But when you start deaking, going 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:36.479 through documents and talking to people, the more complicated things get, 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:42.320 and it seems like just about everyone around Yvonne also 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:53.560 had a motive to kill her. This is death and 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:58.200 deceit and Alliance a real time investigation into whether David 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:11.800 Thorn killed ev Lane. I'm Maggie Freeling. The murder of 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:15.880 Yvonne Lane and David Thorne's claims of innocence were never 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.640 the feature of a Netflix film or made for TV series, 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.520 but it wasn't a blip on the radar either journalists 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:24.200 were drawn to it. 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:28.240 For years, the attack grabbed headlines as police hunted for 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:29.080 a killer. 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.840 Like investigative journalist Dwayne Pullman, who you also heard in 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:38.160 the previous clips. Dwayne looked into David's claims for three years. However, 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:43.120 that was over a decade ago, and since then, former prosecutors, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.920 private investigators, sleuth's and the like have all looked into 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.840 David's claim of innocence. Yet the question still remains. 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:54.920 Did the system convict the wrong man? 0:07:55.320 --> 0:08:00.000 So here we are. Since Yvonne's murder, David has continued 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.800 n Nuali said he had no involvement. He says he 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.200 never paid Joe Wilkes or anyone to murder his ex 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.320 girlfriend and the mother of his child. When you make 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:15.440 it to David's official website WCODT dot org, you discover 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:20.680 that this was an incredibly brutal murder. Yvonn Lane's throat 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:25.840 was slit to the spine, almost decapitating her. Blood was 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:27.880 all over the house. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:33.640 She begins to spur blood, pumping blood violently out of 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:34.000 her neck. 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.199 The living room where her body was found looks like 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.120 someone took buckets of blood and threw it around the room. 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.000 It just didn't look like a hit or a random 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:49.600 murder to me. This looked personal. Police had to process 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.240 this absolute mess of a room, which I'm sure was 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.880 not easy, especially because they also had to get four 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.040 of her kids out of the house, because all but 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.280 one of her children were home when she was killed, 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.199 but they were too young to be helpful to the police. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.760 That is, except for one of them, a four year 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.400 old who'd play a part in the investigation. The police 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:16.320 say they tried to get the kids through the crime 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.880 scene without seeing their mother's body, So some flubs may 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.959 be understandable if they're focusing on the boys, but not 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:29.160 to the extent that happened here. Part of the problem 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:33.840 may just be in experience. Murders in Alliance are rare. 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.000 A bad year might see two homicides, but most the 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.040 city saw just one. If any I feel confident saying 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.880 at minimum they were not ready to deal with this 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:50.520 particular homicide. Police say they covered Yvonne's body with a 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:55.440 blanket from one of the bedrooms, potentially contaminating any evidence 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.160 on her. As every watcher of c as I knows, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:03.000 this probably wasn't best practice. No one wore shoe coverings 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.079 or gloves to preserve evidence, and investigators went back and 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:12.000 forth stepping over Yvonne's body when crossing the room. A 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.040 bloody footprint between her legs apparently came from a detective, 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:20.400 not the killer, and the chief even brought a woman, 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:26.439 a civilian, into the crime scene. It was an absolute disaster. 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.400 Evidence was collected from the scene and never tested, and 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.880 the evidence that was didn't match David or Joe. Yet 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.240 the case still made it to trial, and that's thanks 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.000 to Joe's confession, the one you heard part of at 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:50.000 the top of the episode. The prosecutor said that David 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.440 hired Joe to kill Yvonne, and as you heard, that's 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.800 the story that Joe told. He said David gave him 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:01.559 three hundred dollars to kill Yvonne. His confession, Joe took 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.200 the police to the alleged murder weapon, a three inch 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.840 pocket knife that he said he tossed in a storm drain. 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.080 He also showed them where he disposed of the pants 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:14.480 he allegedly wore when he killed von Another key element 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.840 of the States case a witness who said she saw 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.480 Joe the knight of the murder. Rose Moore said, Joe 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.480 told her and her boyfriend that he was on his 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.600 way to kill someone. Will come back to this later, 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.560 but I just want to point out that, in this version, 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:36.080 the prosecution's version, this nineteen year old was so excited 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.320 about an evening out with his knife to kill someone 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:45.480 that he wanted even strangers to know about it. If true, 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:50.240 Joe's boast is pretty damning, but it's worth noting that 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.920 there was no physical evidence linking even Joe to the scene. 0:11:55.240 --> 0:12:00.440 No fingerprints, no shoeprints or DNA. The pants Joe allegedly 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:02.840 war when he killed Vaughan, there was no blood on them, 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:08.000 much less anything linking David to the crime. Sure, Joe 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.320 took cops to a knife, but there's no evidence linking 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.200 that knife to the murder. In fact, the prosecution will 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:20.640 rest on witness testimony alone. But some witnesses were never called. 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.559 And here's a key one. Keep him in mind. A 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.880 neighbor who saw a man leaving Yvonne's house in the 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.839 morning after her murder. He told cops that man was 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:33.560 not David or Joe. 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.360 I was not asked to test to find the trival 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.760 of David Thorne. I was shown a photo of David 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:41.319 Thorne in December of two thousand. That was not the 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.000 man I saw leaving the residents of nine sixty of mine. 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.959 I was showing a photo of Joseph Wilkes a contest 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.959 murder in December of two thousand. It was not the 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:55.079 man I saw leaving the residents of Maxix. 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.839 The jury never heard this, and after deliberating just the 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:04.080 three hours, David was convicted of paying Joe Wilkes three 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:08.160 hundred dollars to murder Yvonne Lane. He was sentenced to 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:12.600 life without the possibility of parole. Joe took a plea 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.640 deal of thirty to life for his cooperation. He could 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.000 be out of prison very soon. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.480 It didn't take a jury long to convict David Thorn. 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.359 Wilkes pleaded guilty. Both are now serving life sentences. 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:30.920 The entire conviction of David Thorn rests on Joe's testimony. 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.480 But was Joe telling the truth and if he was lying, 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:41.000 why he lost almost as much as David did. But 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.880 I'm skeptical. Hiring a hitman to kill your ex over 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.439 three hundred and fifty one dollars a month seems like 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.880 more risk than it's worth. Sure back then the amount 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.120 was more like six hundred and today's dollars, and that 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.160 might feel like a lot of money to fork over 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.599 monthly if you're working at an hour job, which David was. 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.120 But David was making decent money at a high end 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.720 car shop, and compared to the motives of other folks, 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:16.199 to me, David's alleged motive appears week. Evidence uncovered in 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:21.840 later investigations pointed to other potential killers, like any one 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.760 of the men who fathered Yvonne's four other kids, or 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:30.080 even members of law enforcement Yvonne was reported to be 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:34.520 sleeping with or the man scene leaving her house after 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:40.440 she's presumed dead. Journalist Dwayne Pullman was equally as intrigued. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:45.160 This case is filled with sex, secrets and surprises. 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:49.440 And things only got more complicated when I talked to David. 0:14:51.440 --> 0:15:00.840 All Right, you there, yep, a little loud on that way, Okay, So. 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:03.600 How are you doing it? 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.000 Not too bad? When I first spoke to David, he 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.360 had done twenty one years, almost half of his life 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.640 in prison, and there seemed to be no hope. Left 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:16.920 pretty much dead in the water. 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:17.920 We need new evidence. 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.480 David didn't have a lawyer anymore. He ran out of 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.760 money in all of his appeals. If David's going to 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.360 get out of prison by proving his innocence, he needs 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.880 a lawyer and investigator to find new evidence to show 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:34.360 he deserves a new trial. 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.120 That's why I would have been pushing so hard is 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.640 to find a private investigator that would kind of go 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.520 ahead and kind of almost start the case anew. 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:50.280 And that's proven difficult to find. Investigators can cost thousands, 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.720 and finding someone to take a case pro bono, that is, 0:15:53.920 --> 0:16:01.160 without pay, is not exactly easy. And then there was me. 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.440 After talking to David and reviewing case files, I had 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.440 enough questions about his conviction that I couldn't let it go. 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.400 I kept thinking, there really needs to be an in 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:20.040 depth investigation. Other post conviction investigations didn't necessarily take the 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.640 entirety of the evidence into account. One investigation might focus 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:29.640 on forensics, while another would focus on timelines. And I 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.600 didn't want to piecemeal others' investigations together. I wanted to 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.760 find out for myself if there was any truth to 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:42.360 David's claims of innocence. So many people had a motive 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.880 to kill Yvon, and that shook me to my core, 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.600 to myself and others before it seemed the cops had 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.320 taken the easy way out. David was the obvious suspect, 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.200 and they didn't really focus on anyone else. I wanted 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.120 to know who did that neighbor see leaving Yvonne's house 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.119 in the morning? What happened to evidence collected at the scene. 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.359 There was a kitchen knife, a more likely murder weapon 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.280 than a pocket knife, with a fingerprint that was never 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:18.640 linked to anyone, condoms and wrappers, blood smears everywhere. None 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.600 of it matched David, and none of it matched Joe, 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:27.200 the supposed killer. So who did it match? And here's 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.879 the point I keep getting stuck on. Joe confessed to 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:35.719 killing Yvonne, but the connection to David is pretty slim. 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.840 Would David? Would anyone really hire a blabby teenager as 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.119 a hitman over three hundred and fifty one dollars in 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.439 child support? At trial, the social worker said that David 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:54.280 and Yvonne had a good relationship. So does the prosecution 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.040 theory sound credible to you? I'm not saying it's not 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.680 possible that child support is a motive, but is it 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.840 likely for David? I kept stewing turning over the facts 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.879 as I knew them, and the questions which seemed to 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:16.000 keep multiplying, and admittedly I became obsessed. One reason is 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.440 that I'm a journalist and this seems to be a 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.520 juicy story, but I'm also an advocate. When I see 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.360 it wrong, I will fight to make it right by 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.240 digging and reporting to expose the truth. It makes me 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.959 angry and I can't let it go. I found David's 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.080 case when I was researching for a Wrongful Conviction podcast. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.440 I became interested in wrongful convictions after I reported on 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.360 Suave Gonzales, a juvenile who was sentenced to mandatory life 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.440 in prison for a homicide. After that, I started looking 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.200 into compelling stories of people who claim to be innocent 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:56.000 and needed help getting a second look, and David was 0:18:56.119 --> 0:19:00.600 one one of many. The Innocence Project estimate it's that 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.920 anywhere from two to ten percent of incarcerated people in 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:09.879 the US may be factually innocent, which means tens or 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:14.680 even hundreds of thousands of individuals are doing time for 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:19.520 someone else. And I thought maybe David was, and if 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.560 he was, the world needs to know, and are wrong 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:27.440 needs to be made right. But I felt out of 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.919 my depth doing it alone, and then an opportunity arose. 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.520 What makes you want to continue doing this work? Literally 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.520 immediately upon getting out. 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:46.919 Well, yeah, you know, I've always been a ballum. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.040 I flew down to Austin, Texas for Wrongful Conviction Day. 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.720 I was meeting with Jason Baldwin from the West Memphis Three. 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.280 Jason's case is one of the most notorious wrongful convictions 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:02.720 in the country, grabbing the attention of celebrities, activists, and 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.800 lawyers since three little boys were found murdered in Arkansas 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:08.040 in nineteen ninety three. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.600 They were convicted of murdering three boy scouts, hogtied and 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.720 left in a ditch a Satanic cult. Today, the West 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:16.359 Memphis Three walked free. 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.160 Jason and I did a Facebook live together for Wrongful 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.879 Conviction Day to bring attention to the issue of wrongful convictions. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.240 Oh and then people could see coming. Okay really tail Okay, 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.119 hello everyone, we are live. 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.800 I am here Maggie Freeling in Austin, and I am 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.040 with Jason Baldon of the West Memphis Three, who was 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.879 convicted in nineteen ninety four release in twenty eleven. 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.080 He is also the co founder Jason now has his 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.920 own organization helping to free the wrongfully convicted. He co 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:53.240 founded Proclaimed Justice with his friend and private investigator John hardin. 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.520 Shall I keep chewing while you're recording? Really? 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:03.440 They notably helped exonerate Daniel Viegis in twenty eighteen. He'd 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.840 been wrongfully convicted of a double homicide when he was sixteen. 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.960 Verdict forim b leave the Jersey finally defended Daniel viegas 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:12.640 not guilty of friend. 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:17.320 Knew at investigating wrongful convictions. I was excited to sit 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.000 down and meet with them to see the work they're doing, 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.800 the care and doggedness and the passion they have while 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.359 doing it. I saw that when we talked about a 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.040 few cases they were investigating. 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:30.280 Yeah that works. Let me go get a laptop. 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:34.000 You're going to say you need document? Yeah I need Yeah, 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.200 Like wow, you were very have it all together. We 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:38.640 went over Nicki Zinger and Daniel Rischer's case. 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:39.480 We span of a. 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.840 Month, a murderer took her mother away, and then the 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:44.120 state took. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:46.720 Her love away. Andres Muscaro, there's. 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:51.360 Only two possibilities here. Either somebody is feeding him all 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.400 of those details, or he was there. 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:55.960 And Marco Wilson, Well, we. 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.680 Have gunshot residue on the victim's jacket, So how do 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:02.600 you get gunshot residue when when you're shooting from that 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:03.359 far and there. 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:05.600 Are We went through files and they talked me through 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.040 the details of each case, and the days in Austin 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:12.400 weren't just work. I got to know the guys pretty well. 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:19.119 My brothers Matt and Terry like had me and my 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.920 mom stand back to back with our so we could 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.200 see who was taller on my sixteenth birthday and they're like, oh, Mom, 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:28.520 Jason's almost as tall as you now, you know, and 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:33.600 you know, just having that family time and then got arrested, 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:34.920 you know, a couple months later. 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:38.160 One of the things you fundamentally need to know about 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:42.800 wrongful convictions. It's easy to put someone in and nearly 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:48.159 impossible to get someone out. Convictions are designed and intended 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:51.320 to be final. One of the only ways convictions get 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:56.320 overturned is when someone finally digs deep and does the 0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:00.760 investigation that was probably never done in the first place. 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.479 Every day of that trip, I kept thinking, is there 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:07.919 an appropriate time to bring up this case to them. 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:11.040 I didn't want to be that person who unsolicitly asks 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.640 these busy and in demand guys with a wait list 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:18.240 of cases for a favor. But this wasn't just a favor. 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:23.400 It's someone's life, a man who has spent twenty two 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:27.240 years in prison and says he didn't do it. And 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:33.600 if that's true, I can't look away. And so one evening, John, 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:37.040 Jason and I were having after work drinks and I 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:41.560 broached the topic, you know, there's this really crazy case 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:45.200 I'm looking into. Y'all might be interested. We talked a 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:48.200 little and I told them that the most heartbreaking part 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.840 is it's been almost twenty two years, and David said 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.800 his case is dead in the water. They seemed interested, 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.359 but I didn't want to push it. Maybe they were 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:01.320 just being nice to their out of town guest. I 0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:04.040 left Austin, went back to New York and we stayed 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:06.280 in touch. All right, Well, I got to run, and 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:12.680 you send me the overview of witnesses. Awesome, Thank you, John. 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:16.320 I'll talk to you all right. I don't know when 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:19.520 or how, but at some point I must have said 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:21.919 to John, look, I think you guys should look at 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:25.320 the files. I wanted to know if he would see 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:29.159 what I saw a total mess of an investigation and 0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:34.480 a potential wrong doing. David Thorns was a good case, 0:24:35.000 --> 0:24:37.400 at least to me. So I sent over the thousands 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:40.760 of pages of case file documents and then I waited, 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:48.840 waited for them to have a moment in their busy 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:53.160 days working dozens of other cases to review David's file. 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:55.560 And two months later they. 0:24:55.520 --> 0:24:57.800 Called magg you missed America. 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:01.720 Hello, Hi. 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:05.520 John brought on another private investigator from Proclaimed Justice to 0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:09.280 help Danny Waxler. Oh, it's sunny, it's sunny down there. 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:11.000 Yeah, spicy out there. 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:14.639 Wow, y'all come down, y'all come on like me. 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:18.280 On the surface, they were into it, but they don't 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:21.160 just take a case. They have to investigate it first 0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:24.479 and make sure it's a true innocence claim. They need 0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:28.480 to confirm for themselves that David was indeed telling the 0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:31.720 truth and the case had a leg to stand on 0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:36.480 in court. And if David was innocent, then who did 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:40.119 kill Yvonne Lane? That was part of the puzzle, a 0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:44.440 key part, and getting an answer would prove to be 0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:48.320 a challenge. Remember, even if there was forensics at the 0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:52.000 messy crime scene that weren't compromised and could be tested, 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:57.080 that wouldn't exonerate David. By all accounts, David was not 0:25:57.320 --> 0:26:00.359 at the crime scene. It was an alleged murder for Higher, 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:04.720 so it doesn't matter if his prints aren't there. Getting 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:08.760 David back in court would come down to Joe proving 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:11.879 that Joe was either lying when he claimed that David 0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:16.200 paid him to kill yvon or proving that Joe didn't 0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:17.560 kill yvon The more. 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:20.840