1 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing. 2 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: Mark Twain once likened biographies to what he called quote 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: the clothes and buttons of the man. He said, quote 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: the biography of the man himself cannot be written. The 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: quote is a favorite of Patricia Bosworth, in nineteen fifties 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Broadway star turned biographer, who for forty years has been 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: proving Twain's words wrong. In her books, Bosworth has captured 8 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: the essence of elusive artists like Montgomery Clift, Marlon Brando, 9 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: and New York Underworld photographer Diane Arbus. These men and 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: women were revered but broken, larger than life characters doomed 11 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: to self destruct. It's a type of Patricia Bosworth knows firsthand. 12 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: Her own father, Bartley Crumb, was a famous left wing 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: lawyer who, after an illustrious career that included defending members 14 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: of the Hollywood Ten, ended his own life. It's her 15 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: father's suicide and that of her brother years earlier, that 16 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: gave Bosworth a thirst to understand tormented souls. Her new book, 17 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: The Men in My Life turns that examination inward, exploring 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: how those deaths shaped her and were linked to the 19 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: fear and repression of that era. The third man in 20 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: her life during that period was her abusive first husband, 21 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: a frustrated artist she eloped with at age nineteen. HarperCollins 22 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: did not want me to name him since he tried 23 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: to kill me, you know, they felt that he might object. 24 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: And he was a painter, wanted to be a painter, 25 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: but he never painted anything except corn painting, which but 26 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: he seemed to be blaming everyone around him that he 27 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: couldn't get me painting done. Right, that's right. I make 28 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: jokes about it, but it actually was a horrible situation. Right, 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: How old were you? I was nine. My husband was 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: literally beating me up in a cab and I kept 31 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: telling him to stop, and finally, AS said to the 32 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: cab driver, please help me, and the guy just said 33 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: he's the boss, lady, and he went right on allowing 34 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: my husband to beat at me. So I jumped out 35 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: of the cab and ran to the traffic and got 36 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: on a bus and went up to see my therapist 37 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: in New Hampshire because she had said if I really 38 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: get into trouble, call me. I will be there for you. 39 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: So I get it. There's your New York therapy she's 40 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: my New York and said if you ever need me, 41 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: call me. And now she's up in Vermont, Vermont. That's 42 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: right on a bus because she has said if I 43 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: really get into trouble, call me. I will be there 44 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: for you. So I get there. I went to the 45 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: quart Thority bus terminal, got on the bus, got up 46 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: to Vere. No I didn't. I showed up ding Dong, 47 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: opened the door and there she is in a Kimona 48 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: and I see sort of a man in the background, 49 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: and I say, I need help. Therapy right secondly, and 50 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: I said, I please, I need to help. My husband's 51 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: beating me up. This is my vacation. We will talk 52 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: when I returned to New York in September. And she 53 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: closed the door in my face, and I was totally 54 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: I didn't know where I was. I didn't know where 55 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: to go. She literally shut the door in my face. 56 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: I'm in a dusty, you know, little town, wandering down 57 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: the street. He's nor yeah, exactly. But I see this 58 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: in up ahead, and they're all these cars and there, 59 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: I think people, and and there are filmmakers and cameras 60 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: being pulled in and out of places. And I go 61 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: inside and I'm crying, and this middle aged man comes 62 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: over to me, what's the matter, And I said, my 63 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: husband left me. I didn't even know what to say. 64 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: He said, I'm going to take care of you. He said, 65 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: I am doing a movie on Robert Frost this afternoon, 66 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: a documentary, and you're going to come out with me. 67 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: And talked to Mr Frost and it's gonna make you 68 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: feel better. And I spent the entire afternoon with Robert 69 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: Frost talking poetry. And this actually happened Bella Kornetzer, who 70 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: is a well known documentarian who done movies on Truman 71 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: and Eisenhower, and he was doing this documentary on Frost. 72 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: He took I'd never seen me before in his life. 73 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: He was he was wonderful, and it really did. It 74 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: really sort of was a very important experience in my 75 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: life because at that point I was so depressed and 76 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: so I didn't didn't know what I was doing, I 77 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: didn't know where I was going, and here was this 78 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: man who literally saved my life that day and showed 79 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: me that there was beauty and wonder and fabulousness in life, 80 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: which of course I knew, but I'd forgotten, you know. 81 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: It was It was really an incredible expert. At that 82 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: point in your life. You weren't writing then, were you? 83 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: And I was keeping a journal. I kept a journal 84 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: since I was a I was modeling and acting, and 85 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: I started to act. Yes, I did that, And your 86 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: career as a writer doesn't really take off, so to speak, 87 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: until when well, I I was. I was an actress 88 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: on Broadway and off and movies for ten years. For 89 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: ten years, but I always wanted to write. I had 90 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: these dual ambitions of wanting to be both an actress 91 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: and a writer. Like call that. But you walked away 92 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: from acting? Why? Because I really ended waid writing more? Uh? 93 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: And also I hated the rejections out like and I 94 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: was not moving as fast as I wanted to. I 95 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: didn't get the parts I wanted. I uh, but I 96 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: really I really enjoyed writing more. And you're self reliant, everybody. 97 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: I didn't have to I didn't have to wait for 98 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: people to agree. You know, tell me what that I 99 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: was right? The part. What are the first things you 100 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 1: start to write and submit, whether magazine pieces or books 101 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: or whatever you they were? They were they were magazine pieces. 102 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: Actually what happened was I took a writing course at 103 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: Columbia and uh. I started writing little pieces, sort of 104 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: memory pieces. I actually started writing a memoir about my 105 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: father and my brother when I was backstage in Mary Mary. 106 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: Remember I was doing that too. I was in a 107 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: Broadway show. I was understudying a double understudy, Barbara balle 108 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: Getty's and betsyv on Furstenburg, and I went on for 109 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: both parts, where you can imagine it was. It was 110 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: rough because first I wanted to play both parts. But 111 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: but when I wasn't going on for these two actresses, 112 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: I was in my dressing room starting to write. And 113 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: I did start to write this story of my family, 114 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: but I wrote it as a novel, and of course 115 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: was terrible. But then I was writing little pieces. I 116 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: started talking to my actor friends. I thought, god, they're 117 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: sort of interesting, and I began interviewing Sandy Dennis and 118 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: Liz Ashley and Marion Seldie's all the actors I knew 119 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: on Broadway at the time, and they created a sensation 120 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: because they were very honest, frank interviews. Because nobody thought 121 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: I'd get my stuff published. My friends babble to me 122 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: without realizing that I was taking everything down, and actually 123 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: Sandy and Liz both tried to sue me. They stopped 124 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: being my friends. It was horrible. I got sick to 125 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: my stomach. It's like answered prayers. No, but I really 126 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: felt that I had betrayed them. And if I remember 127 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: them correctly, they're two rather delicate women. Yeah, what's the 128 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: first book you attempt? Oh? I didn't start writing a 129 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: book for ten years. I had a long apprenticeship at 130 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: various magazines, including a place called Magazine Management of Schlockhouse, 131 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: where Mario Puzzo was writing The Godfather. No, he was 132 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: writing The Godfather. Well he was on staff at the magazine, 133 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: Yes he was. Did he write? He wrote sex action 134 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: pieces and sex action. Well, that's what they're called sex action. 135 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: I want you and I to you and I are 136 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: going to start an online site. We are we're going 137 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: to call it sex action. We're gonna I never dreamed 138 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: it would be you, Patty Bosworth, You and I are 139 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: going to do sex action. And I can't even tell 140 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: you how much money we're gonna make. I don't even 141 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: know what it is. It doesn't even matter. Sex slash action, 142 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: I figured. And then when they come home, they have 143 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: a lot of sex. They do they have in their 144 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: mind huh. Yes, But Mario wrote incredible stories. He ground 145 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: them out. And on the side, he was writing this 146 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: book called The Godfather, and people kept saying when are 147 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: you going to finish? And it took him nine years, 148 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: and if you can believe it, one of the staff 149 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: people said to him, Mario, the Godfather is not a 150 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: good title, right, come on. But but I became one 151 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: of his like proteges in a way, like he was 152 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: just a wonderful man and he really knew how to write. 153 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: He knew how to write dan narrative characters. He was terrific. 154 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: He was a wonderful But the thing that bothered him 155 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: was he was not considered a serious writer after he 156 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: had so much success with The Godbouther. He wanted to 157 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: be of Philip Roth hemingway. He wanted people to think 158 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: of him in these terms. But he wanted to be considered. 159 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: He wanted to be reviewed in New York Review of Books. 160 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: He wasn't was he married, had a family, yes, oh yeah, 161 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: very much a family man. While he was writing sex 162 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: action he was a family man, yes he was. He 163 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: was also a gambler. That was the other reason that 164 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: he stayed there so long at this place, called Magazine Management, 165 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: which also produced Marvel Comics. Okay Stanley of Marvel Comics 166 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: and guests who came to visit us one day at 167 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: the office. Fellini what Felini came to see stan Lee 168 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: because he created you know whoever spider Man and God knows. 169 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: And Felini came to the office in the black cape 170 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: and the hat, and Mario was out in the lobby 171 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: and he saw this guy speaking in Italian to the receptions. 172 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: She had knew who he Felini, so he said, oh 173 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: my god, you are Felini, and they spoke in Italian. 174 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: He brought Felini into the bullpen. We were all, you know, 175 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: sitting there, and he introduced us, and Felini told us 176 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: in Italian, Mario translating, I too began in schlock. I too, 177 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: I was in the magazine management of I two wrote 178 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: sex action. No, but he used to. But but Felini 179 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: was a cartoonist, you know, I didn't know. Oh yeah, 180 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: And and so he was talking to us about how 181 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: you two can be great, you know, artists, but you 182 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: do begin sometimes in a different way. You draw cartoons 183 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: or you write sex action, and then you go beyond that. 184 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: But he was like very inspiring to us. Were the 185 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: influences of your family, your brother, or your father, your childhood? 186 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: Were they revealing themselves in the work you did then 187 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: or did that all pile up later into No, it didn't. 188 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: It didn't reveal itself at all. In fact, nobody knew 189 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: anything about my I never talked about my Yeah I did. 190 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: I just totally swallowed it and and hit it, and 191 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: I didn't talk about anything that had happened to me. Ever, 192 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: when I wrote this, these last two books, nobody had 193 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: known anything about my father or the suicide of my 194 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: my brother or my father. Um, I just died when 195 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: you were how old I was? You were in college? Yes? 196 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: You were going where again, Sarah Lawrence? Yeah? Do you 197 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: care to talk about that? Would prefer I can talk 198 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: about whatever you What do you think was going on 199 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: with your brother? Well, it's a long story. He had 200 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: gone to Deerfield Academy, very happy to be there. He 201 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: was a brilliant kid, the closest person to me in 202 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: my life. Really, I really looked up to him, and 203 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: we were just very close for very closest twins really, 204 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: i'd say. But anyway, he was at Deerfield and he 205 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: he really fell in love with another boy. Uh. And 206 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: in those days, that kind of thing didn't happen. It 207 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: was inconvenient to put it mildly. He was discovered with 208 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: his arms around this boy in a gym in the gym, 209 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: in the Deerfield gym, by somebody, and uh, they realized 210 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: they'd been caught hugging each other, embracing. Perhaps because I 211 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: never really found out exactly what was going on. But 212 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: the following day, my brother's friend was found hanging from 213 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: a tree, and my brother was expelled from school and 214 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: he was blamed for it, really uh, and he never 215 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,479 Speaker 1: ever recovered from it. He went into a deep depression. 216 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: He was sent to many analysts. Nobody ever talked. He 217 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: stopped going to school. No, he continued to go to school. 218 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: He went to different schools after that. But but soon 219 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: after boy died, did your brother die three years? My 220 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: brother shot himself on the head when he was eighteen. Uh. 221 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: He was fifteen when when his friend hung himself. And 222 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: by the way, Deerfield refused to ever talk about the suicides, 223 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: that it never happened. I tried to research it. I 224 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: went up there and they said my brother had never 225 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: gone to Deerfield. So I pulled out the year book 226 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: which had my brother's name in it. I said, he 227 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: did go to school, this boy, this other boy did 228 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: kill himself. They never ever would would admit that there 229 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: had been a suicide at Deerfield. Oh, oh my god. Um. 230 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: So there's a period of this writing McCall's and Harper's 231 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: Bizarre and so forth. And then your first book is 232 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: Montgomery Cliffe. You homed him on him first? Why? Well, well, 233 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: my husband, my second husband, Mel Regie, who was my 234 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 1: great one of my great loves of my life, and 235 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: smortunately not here now. Anyway, Mel said right about Montgomery Cliff, 236 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: because you knew him, You remember him, you saw him 237 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: when you were a little girl. Blah blah blah, start 238 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: and and and so I did. Uh. And I met 239 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: him when I was fifteen because my father was his lawyer. 240 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: My father was his lawyer for Wood. When when Monty 241 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: this was a long long time ago, like in forty eight, 242 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: when Montgomery Cliff was just starting and becoming the star, 243 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: my father advised him on on on on his politics. 244 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: Oddly enough, Monty was very involved politically involved, I mean 245 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: in that he had a conscience and he knew what 246 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: was going on in the Blacklist was about to start, 247 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: and my father had come off working for Truman and 248 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: was known politically as a you know, radical lawyer. Anyway, 249 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: Monty uh uh came to him and talked to him, 250 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: and that's when I first saw him, and Fellow sort 251 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: of got a crush on him. Uh. I didn't know 252 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: anything about his problems at that time. It was only 253 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: later you didn't know anything about I didn't, but all 254 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: the other people that I gravitated to, like Jane Fonda, 255 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: whose mother had committed suicide, and so we'd be came 256 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: like suicide survivors together at the studio and h Arbists 257 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: who did commit Suici Idea Arbist, the photographer, and then 258 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: Brando who was also very committed suicide and slow motion 259 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: in a way, yeah, by eating too much. Is it 260 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: safe to say that there's a link between your childhood 261 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: Your dad had a very kind of uh tough period 262 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: in his career with the House on American Activities Committee, 263 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: defending people there, your brother and the kinds of people 264 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: you wrote about in your books. Do you kind of 265 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: gravitate towards complicated, troubled people? Absolutely always, And I didn't 266 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: know that I mean when I began, I just you know. 267 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: The first book I wrote was about Montgomery Clift. Your 268 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: your book about Cliff was entitled Montgomery Clip And there 269 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: was another book, Monty, someone else wrote about him. Did 270 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: they both come out at around the same time. No, 271 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: they didn't. My Mind came out later, the other book, 272 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: Bob LaGuardia. What happened was I had been contracted to 273 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: do a biography but Montgomery Clift and I began got 274 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: this incredible research from his about his family. And then 275 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: my mother got very sick and I had to stop 276 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: writing it to take care of her, and the publisher 277 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: sued me and got Bob LaGuardia to write a quickie 278 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: book called Monty. He used my even the picture my 279 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: cover picture. He also sued me for ten thousand dollars 280 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: because he said he promoted me in my book. Anyway, 281 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: Monty came out. When Monty came out about almost a 282 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: year and a half before my my book came out. 283 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: But then my book was considered that the good book. 284 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: Your book came out, and I was living in Washington 285 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: at the time, going to school, and I read the 286 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: Washington Post review of your book. A big piece of 287 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: The article was an interview with his brother who lived 288 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: in the DC suburbs, I guess in Maryland or Virginia, 289 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: and Eleanor Clift was his wife. And the thing that 290 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: was so amazing was that Brooks gave me everything. He 291 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: decided he would trust me because he had all of 292 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: his brother's stuff, including a phone book, and my name 293 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: was in the phone book and my father's name was 294 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: so he knew that I had known him, and he 295 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: liked that. He liked that idea. I found him in 296 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: the in the phone book, and I called him up 297 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: because I was so intrigued by Cliff and the kind 298 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: of predator, natural beauty, and he was so beautiful, gorgeous, 299 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: he was incredible. But when but when you did, when 300 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: you did his story, you had met him. I had 301 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: met him when I was fifteen years old, and he 302 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: died one year in nineteen sixty five, I believe, but 303 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: I met him in nineteen I hate to say it. 304 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: I mean I think I met him in forty eight 305 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: or forty nine. It was when he did the search 306 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: and Red River, Uh, and then he did Place in 307 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: the Sun in nineteen fifty. I guess it was. I 308 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: met him literally at the height of his fame, and 309 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: he was absolutely ravishingly beautiful. What wasn't that that ate him? 310 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: What was it that ated him? Oh? I think I 311 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: think the fact that he was homosexual and he was 312 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: very conflicted about his sexuality. He was supposed to pretend 313 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: to be stray eight Was that? Was that the conflict 314 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: that he had to pretend in public? Or was he 315 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: conflicted about being gay? He apparently, according to his analyst, 316 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: he was conflicted about being a You know, he did 317 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: have these relationships with women. Apparently he did go to 318 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: bed with one woman, Judy Balaban, Remember Judy, you know 319 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: Judy Barney Balaban's daughter, who was the head of Paramount. 320 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,959 Speaker 1: Women were crazy about him when women wanted to do 321 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: it to bed with him. He was androgynous. He was 322 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: like Brando in a way. They were both so complicated sexually, 323 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: so so sensual and so oh boy, I mean he 324 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: was so gorgeous. Number one, it was Yes, it was 325 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: the Dean. He did go both ways, as did Brando. 326 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: They were both bisexual to begin with, but Cliff then 327 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: ultimately turned totally gay and had many male lovers. You 328 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: hear these stories, but the one I heard was that 329 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: Brando said to Edward Dimitric, didn't Demitric direct that alliance. 330 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: And Brando said to Dimitric that he was going to 331 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: get shot in the end his big death scene and 332 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: rolled down the side of the hill. He was gonna land, 333 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: and he wanted to land in a christ like tableau, 334 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: and he wanted the last minute for a bush to 335 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: fall and a crown of thorns kind of former. And apparently, 336 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: Cliff said, Apparently Cliff turned to Demitric and said, if 337 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,719 Speaker 1: he does that, I'm going home. I think that may 338 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: be a true story, could be. But but but Cliff, 339 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: I can't help but speak about this in the most basic, 340 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: even eroticized fandom, you know what I mean, which is 341 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: everybody knows that him and Elizabeth Taylor in place in 342 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: the sun. I mean, there's just no more beautiful couple 343 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: in the history, not not even carry granted me. You know, 344 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: they liked they liked to stand in front of the 345 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,959 Speaker 1: mirror together to look at their reflections. They knew they 346 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: were gorgeous coming up. Patricia Bosworth relives the day she 347 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: sent to facts to Marlon Brando's dog and got a response. 348 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: Patricia Bosworth has a thousand stories from her days amongst 349 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: the greats of stage and screen. But if anyone can 350 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: give her a run for her money, it's the late 351 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: Robert Osborne, host of Turner Classic Movies, had once a 352 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 1: working actor himself in n His luck and charm got 353 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: him a screen test with Lucille Ball. So when it 354 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: was over, Lucy didn't really say anything. She's just thanked 355 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: me for coming by, and I thought, well, she wasn't 356 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: that impressed, but at least I got to spend some 357 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: time with Lucille Ball. Like a week later, a message 358 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: comes on my voice, Uh, you're answering service, Hello Lebray 359 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: and nine and two. I called the number and the 360 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: second he said, well, Lucille Ball wants you to come 361 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: to dinner on Friday night. So I go to Lucy's 362 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: house at Friday night. There's Janet Gayner, there's Joseph Cotton, 363 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: there's Kay Thompson. And I'm thinking, did you ever believe 364 00:19:58,359 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: that you would ever be And then I thought, no, 365 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: wait a minut I always knew I was going to 366 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: be here. Listen to my entire interview with Robert Osborne 367 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: at here's the thing dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin 368 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: and you were listening to Here's the thing. Patricia Bosworth 369 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: had a successful career as an actress in the nineteen fifties, 370 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: rubbing elbows with the likes of Audrey Hepburn and Marilyn Monroe, 371 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: but it was the stories behind the scenes that interested 372 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: her most. After releasing her first book in ninety eight, 373 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: she's gone on to write six more, one of which, 374 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: on Diane Arbus, was turned into a movie. New York 375 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: Magazine called the book a spell binding portrait. My research 376 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: on Arba's is all original. It was. It was amazing. 377 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: It took me seven years almost to write the book, 378 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: and I I didn't know how incredible it was going 379 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 1: to be. I really didn't see what happens. You're doing 380 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: the research and it's like it's like solving it's like 381 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: solving a mystery. You're always looking for clear Well, not really, 382 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: but in terms of a lot of research, very research heavy. 383 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: I interviewed dozens and dozens of people from every part 384 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: of her life, and of course I created the worlds 385 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: that she inhabited, the world of fashion, the world, the 386 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: dark world, and I wanted to do that. Oddly enough, 387 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: every single one of the people I've written about I've 388 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: known personally, and in a way it makes it, It 389 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: makes it for me more. I don't know immediate and 390 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: I can since I know them, I can see them 391 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: and I know a little bit about them. And it's 392 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: mainly I'm so curious. I'm very nosy, that's the way most. 393 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: And you thought that her story would make something that 394 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: was worth I didn't know I had. I had modeled 395 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: for her when I was a kid, when I was 396 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: a teenager, you know, and I needed money and I 397 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: became a model and I modeled for her, and she 398 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: hired me because I didn't really look like a model 399 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: I was, you know. She was then in fashion and 400 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: she was a fashion photograph for with her husband. And 401 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: she was intrigued by me because I had gotten married 402 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: when I was seventeen loped. She had too, and I 403 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,479 Speaker 1: hadn't realized that. So this kind of interested her, intrigued her, 404 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: and I found her probably one of the strangest, kind 405 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: of most eerie personalities I've ever well. She spoke in 406 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: a very tiny voice. She wore the same dress every 407 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: single day. Uniform was always barefoot. She wore the same 408 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: dress because she said, I don't want to think about 409 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: what I wear, and literally the thing that was falling apart. 410 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: It was ragged and dirty. But she was very, very smart, 411 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: and she asked me all sorts of interesting questions. She 412 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: lived in the studio with her with her husband and 413 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,479 Speaker 1: child in New York. Yeah. It was an old artist 414 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: loft studio on East seventy two Street off Second Avenue, 415 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: and had a tree in the live in in part 416 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: of the studio. But I never forgot her because she 417 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: was so she was. She actually took an interest in me. 418 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: I was, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. 419 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: I was very unhappy. I remember at one point a 420 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: photographer molested me, a male photographer before one of my 421 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: sessions with with a was a catalog house I guess 422 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: I was working for. And I remember telling her about 423 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: this in tears and saying, now I'll never be able 424 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: to work with this man again. She well, of course 425 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: you won't. You shouldn't, ye, you're getting it all wrong. 426 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: Won't have me back exactly, And she said, remember who 427 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: you are. You know you can't, you don't shouldn't tolerate 428 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: this kind of behavior. Nobody had ever talked to me 429 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: like this. Of course, in those days, women were very passive, 430 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: very until you were by and large. Why did Arbis 431 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,479 Speaker 1: kill herself? Well, there were many reasons for that. You know, 432 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: she was deeply depressed to her lover was uh not 433 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: faithful to her. That was one thing that upset her. 434 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: But she also was suffering from deep depression and didn't 435 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: could not take any kind of antidepressants. They made they 436 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: made her feel sick. That's what her mother told me. 437 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: She was never on any any drugs from she was 438 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: right from New York City. Her her family were a 439 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: mercantile family. They owned Russex Department store of her ears. 440 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: She was very rich. Came from a very rich family. 441 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: I was raised by nanny's and and chauffeurs jog U 442 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: S S I C. K apostrophe, Yes, and the Russex 443 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: building is still Remember that her mother was always depressed. 444 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: The entire family it was, was depressed. Her. Her brother 445 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 1: was Howard Nemeroff, the poet, and he was the one 446 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: who was my source, my major source. And he said, 447 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: we were always depressed. Uh the money in the world, 448 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: but money was didn't it didn't matter. I mean she 449 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: she fought her depression by by photograph, by going into 450 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: this other world or this other reality, this dark reality 451 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: she always wanted to explore because she felt she was 452 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: in a reality. She didn't like, this reality of the 453 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: department store and the money and and the thinking of 454 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: possessions all the time she was. She wanted to decree 455 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: that was betraying her. Marvin Israel, who was Richard Avedon's 456 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: right hand and his work and he was He was 457 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: also a brilliant painter and photographer. He was an assistant 458 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: to Avidon No he designed, he shows and he was 459 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: also art director of Harper's Bazaar. He was a graphics 460 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: designer and painter, a very strange man who who only 461 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: painted dogs chewing it at each other. Well, we're going 462 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: to leave that out of sex action. Um, your book 463 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: about Cliff comes out in seventy eight, and your book 464 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: on artists comes out in eighty four, and then you 465 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: take a very long time until you write your next book. 466 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: You don't do the book about Branda until seventeen years later. 467 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: Two one, Well, that's right. In the meantime I did 468 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: were anything your little heart desires in y how does 469 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: that jest state? Well, as I say, I jest stated 470 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: for like forty years. In other words, I started writing 471 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: it in my dressing room at the Hellena's Theater when 472 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: I was in Mary Mary. I started writing the story 473 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: of my father, of his beginnings of his political career, 474 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: my brother's suicide. I actually started as a novel. I 475 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: fictionalized it, which was ridiculous, and then I stopped. I 476 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: didn't actually write it as a real book, as I 477 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: didn't get a contract for it for thirty some thirty 478 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: odd years. But I was thinking about her all the time. 479 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: This story of my father, story of my brother, my 480 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: mother me uh took about thirty forty years. No, I 481 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: didn't because by the time I wrote it, everybody was dead, 482 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: you know, and I was felt free enough to for example, 483 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: my mother and her lovers. This lover that she had 484 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: was our gardener, which is an incredible story in the book. 485 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: I never could have told that when she was alive, 486 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't have. But but no, I really did. 487 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: I think I told almost everything, not freething out. You know. 488 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: I almost would rather write a novel because I can 489 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: do whatever I want to do, and say whatever I 490 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: want to say, and just make up the people and 491 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 1: if they overlap with real people, who gives a ship? 492 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 1: Have you ever want to do the same thing. Yes 493 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: I have, I haven't. I haven't though, but but I 494 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: still feel I may may yet write another memoir. But yes, 495 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: of course I have. Uh, I just haven't yet. Now 496 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: we obviously when you did the first memoir, anything your 497 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: little heart desires an American family story, it stops when 498 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: the cut off is it stops after after my father 499 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: committed suicide. What actually I just on this movie called 500 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: Anne Story with Audrey Hedburn. It was my biggest credit. 501 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: Uh and uh, yeah I was. I was doing quite well. 502 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: But after my father committed suicide, I seemed to lose 503 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: all ambitious vision and I I kind of became numbed 504 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: all over again because my brother had already committed suicide. 505 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: So this for me was a very traumatic, huge change 506 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: in my life. His suicide. I'd also wanted to prove 507 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: myself to him, you know, be successful. He was gone. 508 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: There were all these things that that that made me 509 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: pull back and for a while I just didn't want 510 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: to do anything I did. I worked, but I didn't 511 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: have an ambition. I want to talk quickly about Brandon. Um, 512 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: my feelings about Brandon have altered quite a bit over 513 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: the last ten years. When when you put all the 514 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: pieces together psychologically, intelligence, sexuality, sensitivity. Most stars have two, 515 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: almost none have all three, and Brando of course had 516 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: all three. But very quickly he becomes you know, this 517 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: extended middle finger, of this extended fuck you to the business. 518 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: It's exhausting. What do you think that was about? When 519 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: did that start for him? Was it fuck you? Even 520 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: with street Car with Kazan and no? No, it was 521 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: his mother, the death of his mother. I think, well, 522 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: go back, I'll backtrack. Okay. His mother was an alcoholic, 523 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: and Brando spent his childhood and adolescence taking care of her, 524 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: getting her out of bars, carrying her home, even beating 525 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,479 Speaker 1: his father up when his father was beating her up. 526 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, she was an actress, ran 527 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: that little playhouse in where was this Nebraska? For example, 528 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: when he did Julius Caesar, he went home and he 529 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: recited Shakespeare in the corn Fields with her listening, that 530 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: kind of thing. But what happened was she decided to 531 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: go into a and this meant that Brando no longer 532 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: could take care of her. She was taking care of herself. 533 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: He almost had a nervous breakdown, and he even Stella 534 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: Adler even talked to him about it. So, uh, Harold 535 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: Kleman talked to me about this, this whole aspect to 536 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: speak the book. No, I didn't speak to him at all. 537 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: I only I only met him once at the actor's studio. 538 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: I called him on the phone. He wanted to talk 539 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: to me originally because he wanted to talk about Kazan, 540 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: and he actually wrote me a letter that he would 541 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: talk to me, but then he decided out to and 542 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: I really became so frustrated. I kept calling him and calling, 543 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: and finally somebody said, why don't you call his dog Alec. 544 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: I did listen to this. I facts, dear Fido, I 545 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: want to speak to your master. Within seconds, the facts 546 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: came back vac saying my master does not want to 547 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: talk to you, and signed with two paw prints. This 548 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: was Brando answering mate with people incessantly. I was going 549 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: to do because I had done street Car for TV, 550 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: which was a huge miss, was one of the biggest 551 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: mistakes of my career and the biggest waste of time 552 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: of my career, and we all just did it for 553 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: a paycheck. And then I get an offer from CBS. 554 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: Was doing that stuff back then, They said would you 555 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: do katonahun tin roof with my ex wife with Kim 556 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: would play h Maggie. I mean, we're all a little 557 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: long in the tooth for these parts, by the way. 558 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: But then they said would we do? And when Branda 559 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: would be big daddy? And I've got to call Brando 560 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: And you know, you call the number and leave the 561 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: message and the woman calls you back, and they're very 562 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: prompt and very formal, and she said, what time, what 563 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: number he will call you. And sure enough, I'm sitting 564 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: in my house and my phone rings, and of course 565 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: I trip over myself and he must break brand neck 566 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: tripping over a stool in the kitchen to get to 567 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: the phone. Maybe he's gonna let it ring three times 568 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: and hang up, you know, he's maybe he's just sick 569 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: of this. And I picked up the phone and she says, 570 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: here he is. And he gets on the phone and 571 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: he said, why don't you come by a Thursday? And 572 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. And I go to 573 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: his house and I had lunch with him for four hours. 574 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: Oh my god, are you kidding me? And I had 575 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: lunch with him for four hours, and you could tell 576 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: he was sad. He was sad. What was the thing 577 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: that you learned about him that was among the thousands 578 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: of things I'm sure was Brando's bisexuality. That's that's not 579 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: that widely known though. Oh yes among his friends. Yes, 580 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: he was totally free about it. He didn't give a damn. 581 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: He didn't care at all. Any port in a storm 582 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: for absolutely, absolutely, who's wild. It was Wally Cox's dear 583 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: friend or was he his boyfriend? That I don't know. 584 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: I do know that Wally Cox absolutely and Brando livered 585 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: Wally Cox. And when Wally Cox died, Brando went went 586 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: to the funeral, but he wouldn't go to the funeral. 587 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: He climbed up a tree and looked down at the 588 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: ceremony and then fought to get the ashes. Oh I 589 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: thought that they roomed together. They did in the fifties, 590 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: and Shelley Winters tells this funny story about being Brando's 591 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: date one night and Wally Cox was there and they 592 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: had they had something like roasted grapefruit for dinner. That's it, right, Yeah, 593 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: that's it, And it was Brando cooking. It's just crazy craziness. 594 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: He used to climb out windows, used to go into 595 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: people's apartments. He would like be like a burglar and 596 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: climb into windows and poke his head and say hello 597 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: and then leave it. It was crazy. Now. Jane Fonda 598 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: as someone who is always intrigued me to the end 599 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: because she's had these multiple stages of her career, her 600 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,719 Speaker 1: you know, tabloid e marriages and Tom Hayden, who I worship. 601 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: I love Tom. But for me, what will never die 602 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: is looking back at her as one of the great 603 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: not just beauties and movies started with film actresses. I mean, 604 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: she's such a great act she is great forget include 605 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking to me this woman is still not grinding 606 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: out as many movies as possible, even forget about age, 607 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: because she's so mesterrizing the what was the experience like 608 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: writing about her? She had a comparable loss that the band. 609 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: Which loss is her mother slitting her throat when Jane 610 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: was twelve years old, and and her father who never 611 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: showed his love for her. Henry Fonda never said I 612 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: love you. He was always cold to her. Does she 613 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,239 Speaker 1: ever understand why did she venture? He was a very 614 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: strange man. I think he actually was obsessed with her myself. 615 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: But what happened was Jane and I had met at 616 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: the actor's studio, and she decided she wanted a woman 617 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: to write her biography. She'd had nine biographies written by men, 618 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: and they'd all been threatened by her. She wanted a 619 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: woman to write about her life totallyphy. She didn't want 620 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: to call it authorized because she didn't read it. She 621 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: refused to read it. She said, oh, I'm only looking 622 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: at the pictures. But she heard from other people it 623 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: was okay. It was very difficult for me to do that. 624 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it was difficult because I knew her, she 625 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 1: trusted me totally, and there were a lot of things 626 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: in her life that she'd done that we're not that great, 627 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: you know, So how do I handle that one? I mean? 628 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: She stole her routines for the workout from her trainer. 629 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: And should I tell this? You know? So I called Gilda, 630 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: who is her trainer, and gil said, yeah, she did 631 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: steal him as fond about yes, I did, she say, 632 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: She said, well, you know, I you she she hedged 633 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: and him to odd. I didn't want it to be 634 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: a puff piece because she had given me so much. 635 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: It was difficult and there were certain things I did 636 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: leave out. She decided she wanted to be taken care of, 637 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: even though Ted Turner himself said I couldn't take care 638 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: of her. She wouldn't even let me pay for her 639 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: plane tickets, she said. But I think also they were 640 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: They're very much alike in a way. I mean, they're 641 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: both totally self involved, very smart. Uh. They love they 642 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: loved the fame, they love the power that comes with that. 643 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: Um So I think for a while it worked, except 644 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: he was always unfaithful to her, always, and and and 645 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: she couldn't take that he was unfaithful. Like the second week, 646 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: third week they were married, she found out he was 647 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: screwing somebody you were. The latest book entitled The Men 648 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: in My Life, A Memoir of Love and Art in 649 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties Manhattan is very sad and funny, but really 650 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: really sad. But but the thing is, when you write 651 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: a book, what are you supposed to write? You cannot 652 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: be indifferent to your own history. You know you can't. 653 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 1: And I was very involved, and yes, I guess I 654 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: did get sad at times. Well, what I love about 655 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: when I read Cliff as you as you as you read, 656 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: and you think, is anybody happy in this business? Is 657 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: anybody ultimately happy. I don't know. I don't know. I 658 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: think they are. You know, was Paul Newman happy? Now? 659 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: Maybe he wasn't. I think Paul, I think one was 660 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: very happy towards the end. I think Newman for Newman 661 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,280 Speaker 1: the great you know, horrible thing. I want to assume 662 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: as when his sons Scott killed himself, it changed him too. 663 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: I think it was completely changed, changed him totally. I 664 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,359 Speaker 1: think that that really affected him. Your last book, your 665 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: a memoir that's out now. There really is a kind 666 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: of an energy of what's the word I'm thinking of? Forgiveness? 667 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: Is that is that right to say that you're not 668 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: mean to these people in this book? Well, you really 669 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:49,919 Speaker 1: put the gloves on with the ex husband of yours. 670 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: I mean, that's not mean to him. No, I know, 671 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't I I was. I was just 672 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I wanted. I wanted to 673 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: tell these stories. It's really, you know, the book really 674 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: is about my brother. It's it's an a tribute to 675 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: my brother. What's the next memoir for you, M I 676 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 1: don't know that. I think I would like to write 677 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: about Actually, I'd like to write about the next ten years, 678 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: meaning the six the sixties into seventies where I get 679 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: into feminism and I work in pornography, which I did 680 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: for a while with Bob Guccioni and did I edited 681 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: a female porn magazine called Viva for two years until 682 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: he fired me. What was he like? He was a 683 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 1: complicated man. I mean he wanted to be a painter 684 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,919 Speaker 1: or another one. Uh. He felt he was doing good. 685 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: He was an accidental pornographer. What he was he was 686 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 1: he was very smart and he actually published some wonderful 687 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: articles in Penthouse. I remember, I remember reading about Barry 688 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: Seals from the whole Mina Arkansas Conspiracy right now. He 689 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 1: did a lot of pla, a lot of and and 690 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,399 Speaker 1: and Viva had great writing in it too. He did well. 691 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: I think that when you're done with that memoir, or 692 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: maybe while you're writing that memoir, I want you to 693 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: remember to allow time for you and I for sex action. 694 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: It's a winner. I love it. Launch date to be determined. 695 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the 696 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: thing