1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josh, and for this week's select, 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: I've chosen a really unsettling episode on the Valisca Axe Murders, 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: one of the most unsettling murders in the history of 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: American true crime. It's from twenty seventeen and it's a 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: good one. But fair warning, hopefully you have a strong 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: constitution because a lot of the stuff we talk about 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: is not nice anyway. Enjoy. Welcome to Stuff you should know, 8 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 9 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry. 10 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: Put the three of us together at a little mystery, 11 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: a lot of mayhem, you got stuff you should and 12 00:00:54,560 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: one axe? Yeah? How many is this? Three? We got 13 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: Lizzie Borden yet effect yep, and then this one. I 14 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: couldn't think of anymore. Well, I looked. It's funny because 15 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: I looked, I was like, I wonder if we could 16 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: do a spinoff show just on X murders. Um and 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: Wikipedia had thirty listed. I'm surprised that's it. There's like 18 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: ten mentioned in this this article alone. M Well, we'll 19 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: see why there are so many X murders. This this um, 20 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: this whole researching the Vliska X murder kind of solved 21 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: a question I've had that I didn't realize I knew 22 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: had how to pronounce Vliska. We just settled that by 23 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: calling the Vliska town Hall. I know, that was a 24 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: pretty great moment. Right before we recorded, I was like, 25 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: are you sure there's a Valissa? Josh called the town 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: hall and lied. Well, it was kind of a bet. 27 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: That's just settled. Yeah, we just never put money on it. 28 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: So if you are whoever answers the phone at the 29 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: Veliska town Hall, Um, first of all, thank you. You 30 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: got a call today, so congratulations. And second of all, 31 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: you just spoke to an internet celebrity. I don't know, man, 32 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: I think Valisca is on the map and it is 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: one hundred percent because of this this murder. Well, if 34 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: you just type in Valisca, almost all you see is 35 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: stuff about the sax murder. Well, yeah, the site Valiska, 36 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: Iowa dot com is entirely dedicated to this axe murder. 37 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,839 Speaker 1: It's a it's a pretty big deal. Yeah, no, it's 38 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: just it doesn't mention it at all. But all the 39 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: copy is just in the outline of the shape of 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: an axe. They just talk about like their boys club 41 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: and stuff, that they're doing their Fourth of July braide, 42 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: but it's in the shape of an ax. Yeah. The 43 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: population and elevation is in a drop of blood coming 44 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: off of the axe. Yeah, it's this population, not as 45 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: much as it was on June ninth. That's morbid. Nineteen twelve. 46 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: Did you did you hear about this before? Well, I 47 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: think or hinterc effect. We had some emails from probably 48 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:12,119 Speaker 1: local Iowans, Iowans Iowans Iowanian Nights saying, hey, you guys 49 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: should if you're into the not into X murders, but 50 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: get a load of it. If you're into reporting on 51 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: grizzly crimes, you should check out the one we had 52 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen twelve. Yeah, they were right, man, This is 53 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: so before we get into it, I think it goes 54 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: without saying listeners that this is a very horrific grizzly 55 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: crime that we're going to talk about in some detail. Right, 56 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: listen at your own discretion. X murder is in the title, everybody. Yeah, 57 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: I just want to make sure we cover ourselves there. 58 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: This is one of the most brutal crimes in American history. Yeah, 59 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: and a lot of people don't know about it. Man. 60 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: Well let's let's let's stop jabbering and get this criming. Okay, 61 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: all right, where was where was this from? By the way, Well, 62 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: one of the articles we researched was from Mike dash 63 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: the Smithsonian magazine. They do great work, great work. There's 64 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: another guy named and named Ed Epperley who we have 65 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: to give a shout out to, who has like a 66 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: whole site called ask ed that's dedicated to this murder 67 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: guys researched to for like fifty five years or something 68 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: like that. Did he write one of the two books? Probably? Sure. Yeah. 69 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: He's widely known as the expert on the veliska acts murder. 70 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: He knows everything there is to know, and he's got 71 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: a really fascinating So if you're even remotely into true 72 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: crime and this thing floats your boat, go check out 73 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: Ed's site and you will just spend days pouring over it. Yeah. 74 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: One thing I realized in researching this was it was 75 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: way easier to get away with murder, yeah than nineteen twelve. Yeah. Yeah, 76 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: there's a lot of agreement that had this been done today, 77 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: they would have caught the guy very quickly. But yeah, 78 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve. It was like, oh, you wear gloves and 79 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: you just confounded their only means of detection basically from 80 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: an eyewitness pretty much. Yeah, so we keep saying nineteen 81 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: twelve specifically, like you said, June ninth, nineteen twelve in 82 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: the little town t Well, it was one of those 83 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: things where it crossed over into midnight. So June ninth, 84 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: tenth depends on if you're still partying. Potato Potato Liska, Melissa, Right, Yeah, 85 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: but at five away East second Street in Valiska, Iowa, 86 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: which is in the County of Montgomery in the southeast 87 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: of the state. I believe not as far from here 88 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: as I thought. No. I just looked on a map 89 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: and I was like, wait, I was there, I thought, 90 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: I always like basically in Canada. No, huh, where is 91 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: it more right in the middle of the country. I 92 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: did not realize that, Like, it doesn't look further west 93 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: than like Dallas. I can believe that. But it was 94 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: the north that gets you, the northern, the northernward direction, 95 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: that's what gets your share. So on this night June ninth, tenth, 96 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve, and this little house there were eight people sleeping. 97 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: There were a mom and a dad, Joe and Sarah Moore, 98 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: and then there four kids what were their names, Charles 99 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: I believe Herman, Katherine Boyd and Paul right, And then 100 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: downstairs there were two additional people sleeping in the house, 101 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: little Lena and Aina Stillinger, and they were just having 102 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: a sleepover, right, Yeah, they were friends of Catherine, the 103 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: oldest daughter or the only daughter I guess, of the Moors, 104 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: and the whole group had been at church. They were 105 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: Presbyterians and they had been at church that day. It 106 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: was Sunday for a special Children's Day Mass that Missus 107 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: Moore had helped put on and the kids had all 108 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: participated him. And at that mass, Katherine had asked her 109 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: two friends, Lena and Iena the sisters, to spend the night. 110 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: And so they came back home with the Moors from 111 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: the Children's Day Mass, and by I think ten or 112 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: ten thirty, they were all at home in bed and 113 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: the lights were out and the house was settled and dark. Yeah, man, 114 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: the Stillinger girls. I mean, this is all very sad, 115 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: But anytime I hear of a fateful turn, like oh yeah, 116 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: we just spent the night there that night and things 117 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: go bad. It always I don't know bothers me more. Yeah, 118 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: for sure, Twists of fate are terrible, especially when they 119 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: result in terrible deaths. So very late at night, like 120 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: you said, after midnight, someone crept in to the back 121 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: of the house, which was not locked. That's so up 122 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: for debate. Oh yeah, all right, locked or unlocked. They 123 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: got in without raising suspicion, right, Yeah, two story house, 124 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: and this is a small town, this is there were 125 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: I don't even think two thousand people living there then, 126 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: and I think even less now than there were back then. Yeah, 127 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: of those places. So this person, and I think by 128 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: all accounts we can safely say it was a man 129 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: creeps in this house with an axe from the property. Yeah, 130 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: it was Joe Moore's own ax. Yeah. And as we 131 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: will see, apparently they called these weapons of convenience because 132 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: back in the day, every single house in the US 133 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: had an ax, like in the front or backyard. That 134 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: just explained it. That was the question I didn't realize 135 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: i'd had. Why were there so many axe murderers at 136 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: a certain period of time in American history? Was because 137 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: everybody had an ax? Yeah, and you would leave it 138 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: just you know, yeah, like chopped into the stump that 139 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: you use as the chopping block or whatever. It'd be 140 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: like a weapon of convenience. Yeah, these days you would 141 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: have to kill people with like a mailbox, right, just 142 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,359 Speaker 1: some something that everyone has, so like a silicone spatula 143 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: or a high speed internet cable here you yeah, chokes 144 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: somebody with that. Yeah, Okay, all joking aside. So this 145 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 1: dude creeps in there. He's got this axe. He gets 146 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: and this is very key here. He gets the lamp, 147 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: an oil lamp from the dresser inside the house. He 148 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: takes off the chimney the glass you know, covering, and 149 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: takes it off, bends the wick and half so the 150 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: flame is smaller, lights the lamp, and then turns it 151 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: down really low, and then commences creeping. Yeah, with an 152 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: axe in hand, and this low light oil lamp in 153 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: the other chimney less lamp, which we'll see is a 154 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: big clue. Yeah. So he goes up the stairs, apparently, 155 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: so he passes the Stillinger girls first, yep, goes up 156 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: the stairs. He passes the children's bedroom and then opposite 157 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: I believe the landing from the children's bedroom are Joe 158 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: and Sarah's room, or is Joe and Sarah's room, and 159 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: they're sleeping, and he sets the oil lamp down I believe, 160 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: at the foot of the bed, and he raises the 161 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: axe over his head and using the flat the flat 162 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: end flat side of the axe, not the sharp blade side, 163 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: but the other side, he delivers a blow to Joe's head. 164 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 1: Joe I believe, was lying on his back, even though 165 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: Smithsonian article says something different. Yeah, raise it so high. 166 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: He even gouged the ceiling correct. Yeah, brought it down 167 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: hard on Joe's head. Probably killed him instantly from that 168 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: one blow. Yeah. Then apparently he didn't disturb Sarah at 169 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: all because he did the same thing to her. And 170 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: both of them were found in a position that they 171 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: would have been sleeping. And there wasn't like the bed 172 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: clothes weren't ruffled. There wasn't their arm wasn't enough to 173 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: defend themselves. They died in their sleep, it appeared, right. Yes, 174 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: So he kills the parents either immediately or they die 175 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: probably pretty quickly, right leaves the room and goes next door. 176 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: And this is really just almost awful to talk about. 177 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: But he kills all the children in their sleep. One 178 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: by one, but again without waking any of them. Yeah, 179 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,359 Speaker 1: by the time he got to the Stillinger girls downstairs, 180 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: it seemed evidence points to the fact that they may 181 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: have awakened. Finally, one of them, the older one Len 182 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 1: and I believe is the older one, and then he 183 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: dispatches with both of them in the same manner. Yeah, grizzly, awful, 184 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: awful murder. So that's bad enough, right, This guy just 185 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: went around and murdered eight people, six of them children 186 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: under the age of twelve. Yeah, or twelve are under 187 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: with the blunt end of an axe. That's bad enough. 188 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: But then it just gets a million times worse. And 189 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: this is probably why this axe murder is just part 190 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: of American history, whether we like it or not. So 191 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: what the guy does next is, well, he took the 192 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 1: axe and he flips it over, and he takes the 193 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: sharp side, and he goes around and he starts bashing 194 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: everybody's head in one by one. Apparently, Joe was later 195 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: found to have been struck as many as thirty times 196 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: in the head with the axe. Yeah, just one by one. 197 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: He went around and completely caved in the head and 198 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: face of all of his victims, methodically throughout the house 199 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: after they were dead, which is a bizarre, horrible thing 200 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, So then it gets a little bit strange. 201 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: He goes around to the rooms and all over the 202 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: house really and does different things in each one. He 203 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: covers windows with sheets and things. He covers mirrors. Yeah, 204 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: all the mirrors in the house were covered. He covered 205 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: the faces of I believe all the victims, right, Yeah, 206 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: one way or another. I believe all of their faces 207 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: were covered with either sheets or pillowcases, or I think 208 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: in the case of the girls, he pulled their dress 209 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: up over their faces. Yeah. We'll talk about that in 210 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: a second. Uh. Yeah, it's very um, I think in 211 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: the serial killer or psychopath mode though I've heard of 212 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: stuff like that before though, right, like, Um, you get 213 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: the idea that they don't the murderer doesn't want the 214 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: victim looking at him, Yeah, which may also explain why 215 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: he bashed their faces in who knows. Um. So the 216 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: guy apparently hangs out for a little while. Um. He 217 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: does other weird things though. The bacon he grabbed a 218 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: two pound slab of bacon, and I saw elsewhere that 219 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: there was another slab of bacon found in the house, 220 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: but there was at least one two pound slab of 221 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: bacon that he wrapped in a dish towel and then 222 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 1: left on the floor of one of the bedrooms. There 223 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: was a bowl of bloody water that was later found 224 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: he washed himself off. He washed off the axe, although 225 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: he left it behind um and he apparently hung out 226 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: for a little while in the house before leaving sometime 227 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: before five am. So the murders took place around midnight. Yeah, 228 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: and then come five am the house is dark still. 229 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: It's five am, so that's not the weirdest thing, although 230 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about Iowa. So plenty of people were up 231 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: at five, including the neighbor, a woman named Mary Peckham, 232 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: and she noticed that there wasn't anybody up at the house, 233 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: which was a little odd. It was a Monday morning now, 234 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: and by seven she thought it was just downright eerie 235 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: that there was no sign of life at the house. 236 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: She went over and let the Moore's chickens out so 237 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: that they could peck around and feed. She called Joe 238 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: Moore's store and said, hey, has Joe showed up and 239 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: found from the employee that he hadn't. And finally one 240 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: of those two gets in touch with a guy named 241 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: Ross Moore, Joe Moore's brother, and Ross comes over and 242 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: unlocks the door. The front door is locked, and he 243 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: goes inside and he comes almost immediately rushing back out 244 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: calling for the local marshal to be called. Yeah, basically, 245 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: he gets Hank Horton as the marshall's name, He gets 246 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: him on the scene, and this is where things just 247 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: kind of go berserk. It's it's such a small town, 248 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: such a grizzly crime. Any chances of preserving a crime scene, 249 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: and this is nineteen twelve. I don't even know how 250 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: much a small town like this knows about preserving a 251 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: crime scene at the time, but any hopes were lost 252 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: within those first few hours after the discovery, because by 253 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: all accounts, there were a hundred or more people that 254 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: went through that house, from doctors to coroners, to investigators 255 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: to just townspeople, right, that were allowed to just go 256 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: in there and check things out. Yeah, So the first 257 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: group comes with the the the marshal, Hank Horton, right, 258 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: was to two doctors and a minister, Jay Clark Cooper, right, 259 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: great doctor name Jay Clark Cooper and Edgar Huff and 260 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: Wesley Ewing, who was the minister of the church. They 261 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: were the first contingent to make it into the house 262 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: after Rossmore came running out. Yeah. So they go in 263 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: and they know enough to not disturb things too much. 264 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: Another guy gets brought in, um La Linquist. He's the coroner. Yep. 265 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: He tries to take some notes about the crime scene. 266 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: But the person who got the most information was another doctor. 267 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: His name was Williams. Yeah. FS Williams was the one 268 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: who examined the body and at a later inquest, um 269 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: he had the most details to offer about the bodies, 270 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: of positions, all that stuff. So when those guys walked in, 271 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: they were at least well versed enough to know not 272 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: disturb things as much as possible, or at least more 273 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: than the townspeople knew. Yeah, and FS Williams allegedly came 274 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: out of the house pretty shaken and said, don't go 275 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: in there, boys, or you'll regretted to your last day. Yeah, 276 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: And the townspeople said, nuts to you. We're going inside. 277 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: We want to see some dead bodies. And they all 278 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,719 Speaker 1: regretted it probably till their last day. Yeah, Because they 279 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: not only messed with the crime scene, they poked around. 280 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: There was supposedly the town drunk took fragments of Joe 281 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: Moore's skull as mementos. Like the crime scene was toast, 282 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: Like you said, if it could have ever been preserved, 283 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: it was toast. And even the local druggist showed up 284 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: with his camera to help preserve the crime scene because 285 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: he heard that the townspeople were tramping all over it, 286 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: and Ross Moore, not understanding what he was doing through 287 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: the guy out, thought he was just being a ghoul 288 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: trying to get pictures. So the crime scene is utterly 289 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: and completely lost. Yeah, and one of the things about Valesca, 290 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: almost said Vassela, is that it was a train town. 291 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: There were about thirty trains every day that went through there, 292 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: and so by this time, unless this person was local 293 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: and maybe hiding out locally, by all accounts, the murderer 294 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: had probably hopped a train was out of there right 295 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: that time, but they didn't gone. They didn't realize this 296 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: until they had already released some bloodhounds. They searched the countryside. 297 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: There was like a pretty pretty big search to find 298 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: whoever did this, and they didn't find anybody. So the 299 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: town was just terrified. Town of two thousand people, eight 300 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: including six children, had just been murdered with an axe 301 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: in your town. And now the sun's starting to go 302 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: down and nobody's been caught, all right, So let's take 303 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: a break and we'll come back and talk about suspect 304 00:18:45,480 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: number one right after this. Okay, So suspect number one 305 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: might be a little surprising when you first hear that 306 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: he was a state senator, very um well, well well 307 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: respected by some as a local businessman and a very 308 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: prominent Methodist. Seems the town was pretty sharply divided between 309 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: Methodists and Presbyterian you know those days, and that stuff 310 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: mattered to those people. And his name was Frank Jones, 311 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: and Methodist immediately said, no, he's he's got to be innocent. 312 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: This is a fine upstanding member of our church. Presbyterians 313 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: are like, no, it's got to be him. And at 314 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: first I was like, well, why would it be the 315 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: state senator? None of this makes sense. There were a 316 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: couple of big things that made people believe that he 317 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: could be the guy. Yeah. Joe Moore worked for him 318 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: for seven years and was one of his best salesmen 319 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: on his farm equipment team. And apparently he left in 320 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: nineteen oh seven, and was not too happy with the 321 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: work hours, which were sixteen hour days, six days a week. 322 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: Who would be it's like us, And then set up 323 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: a rival business and even took one of the clients, 324 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: the John Deer company. Yeah, that was a big one. 325 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure, so big that when Sarah Peckham called Joe 326 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: Moore's employee to tell him the news. Yeah, Joe Moore's 327 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: employee called the John Deer people in Omaha to let 328 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: them know. Oh sure, they were like the third people 329 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: called after the bodies were discovered. So he takes John 330 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: Deer with him. So this set up an obvious rivalry 331 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,479 Speaker 1: and worse than that apparently, and I don't know if 332 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: this is super were confirmed, but at least the rumor 333 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: was that Joe Moore had slept with Jones's daughter in law. 334 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: From what I understand, beyond a shadow of a doubt, 335 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: that's been that's understood, is true. That's true. So sleuch 336 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: with his daughter in law, who apparently kind of had 337 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: several affairs in town and was not very discreet. Yeah, apparently, 338 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: according to Mike Dash at Smithsonian, she used to set 339 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: up her um her meet and greets over the phone. 340 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: It's called a liaison. Oh that's right, um, over the phone. 341 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: And this was at a time when there was a 342 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: switchboard operator running the phones in the town. Yeah, they 343 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: could set there and listen. Yeah, and this lady obviously 344 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: didn't care. So um. Apparently it was pretty well known 345 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: that that Joe Moore had had an affair with F. 346 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: Jones's daughter in law. Yes, huge, you put those two 347 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: things together, and friends, the fact that apparently they used 348 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: to cross to the other side of the street to 349 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: keep from from from encountering one another, that's that's a 350 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: big deal in that town. You're a small town, right, 351 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: So Yeah, suspicion fell on to f apparently, from what 352 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: I understand, within a couple hours of the bodies being discovered. Yeah, 353 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: and suspicion not that he may have done it, that 354 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: Jones was actually the killer, but maybe Jones because he 355 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: was fifty seven years old and probably had some pretty 356 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: good money clearly, Oh yeah, he was wealthy. He was 357 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: building a bank, overseeing his new bank being built when 358 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: he got the news of the bodies. When you're building 359 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: the bank, you're you're rolling in it. Yeah, So everyone 360 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: thought that he probably hired somebody out to kill him 361 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: and there was a very the Burns Detective Agency. There 362 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: was a detective named James Wilkerson who said, you know what, 363 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think he hired someone, and 364 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: I think that man's name was William Mansfield, William Blackie Mansfield. 365 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: It was already, Um no, he wasn't already. He would 366 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: later be, I believe, convicted of an axe murder himself. Yeah, 367 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: which is probably one of the chief reasons he was suspect. Well, no, 368 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: that that came a couple of years after. I believe 369 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: that was nineteen fourteen or fifteen, that he murdered his wife, 370 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: her parents, and their child, their child, his chocket with 371 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: an axe. Right. Yeah, See, I was a bad dude. 372 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: But there was one problem with James Wilkerson's theory. Blackie 373 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: Mansfield had an airtight alibi. He was in Illinois, hundreds 374 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: of miles away when the crimes occurred. Not only did 375 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: the foreman vouch for him, but the payroll records showed 376 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: very clearly that he had not been in Viliska that 377 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: day and couldn't have done it. Yeah, so he was exonerated, 378 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: but a lot of townspeople still thought that that you 379 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: know how it was back then and still is today 380 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: to a certain degree. Sure, especially in a small town. Yeah, 381 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: people were convinced that he was a guy, and a 382 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: lot of people probably went to their graves thinking that. 383 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: So even though Chuck that Mansfield was exonerated, and like 384 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: you said, a lot of people thought that Jones, F 385 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: Jones apparently went by f M did have something to 386 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: do with it. The still in your Girl's father and 387 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: Ross Moore, Joe Moore's brother, both thought f Jones was 388 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: behind this, right and and Wilkinson made it like his 389 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 1: personal mission to take Jones down and apparently ruined his 390 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: political career, cost him reelection to the state Senate. I 391 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: would think that probably happened anyway, just from suspicion, but maybe, 392 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: but I think like there's something between townspeople suspecting you 393 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: and a detective like bringing evidence against you and getting 394 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: a grand jury to indict you. It was like the 395 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: good old days when you could be suspected of an 396 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: X murder and still win a Senate seat, right exactly. 397 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: But Jones he didn't win re election, and uh yeah, 398 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: apparently to their dying day, some people assumed that it 399 00:24:53,480 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: was him behind it. Another candidate, candidate suspect. Sure in candidates, 400 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: not the right word. Lynn George Jacqueline Kelly, a man 401 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: with four names. He went by George Kelly though. He 402 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 1: was an Englishman, which was probably a little weird at 403 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: the time, sure be living there. No one had ever 404 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: seen an Englishman in Iowa. Maybe he was a preacher though, 405 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: and it says in this Smithsonian article a known sexual deviant. 406 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: He definitely had some mental health problems. But there are 407 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: some things in his case where it's sort of we're 408 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: suspicious in others that made him not a great suspect, 409 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: one of which he was a little guy. He was 410 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: five to one, one hundred and nineteen pounds, so maybe 411 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: not the best suspect for swinging an ax like that. Yeah, yeah, 412 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: although you know he could have been strong as an ox. 413 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 1: You never know. Sures, those little guys, you know, Yeah, 414 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: but they're usually good with like jiu jitsu sleeper holds 415 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: rather than axe swinging. You know, they just scramble up 416 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: on top of before you know what, their legs are 417 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: around your neck and you're losing concoct their thumbs are 418 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: in your eyeballs, right, that kind of thing, right, Uh, yeah, 419 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: so fair enough, But he was left handed, and the 420 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: coroner Linquist did say that you know, from their analysis, 421 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: as rudimentary as that might be in nineteen twelve, that 422 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: it could probably at least determine that it was a 423 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: left handed assailant from the blood spatter. I believe, Yeah, 424 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: on the walls. It's good. Good for them for being 425 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: that advanced. So there were some other things that Um 426 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: that implicated George Kelly. One, he was in Valiska. He 427 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: was a traveling preacher. He and his wife toured around 428 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: Um and they were in Valiska. Then the day of 429 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: the murder Um they were actually at the children's service. Yeah, 430 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: that the that the moors and the still injured girls 431 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: were at Um. Again, this guy was a sex maniac, 432 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: is what he was known ass Yeah, I kind of 433 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: wonder about that. And I man, he liked to have sex. 434 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: I guess there were He placed an ad and this 435 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: is in the nineteen tens. He placed an ad the 436 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: Omaha World Herald looking for a stenographer who would be 437 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: willing to pose as a model. And when one woman 438 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: named Jessamine Hodgson replied to his ad, he sent her 439 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: a letter. And apparently he's quite lude so much so 440 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: that the court that heard the case against him said 441 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: that it was so obscene, lude lascivious, and filthy as 442 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: to be offensive to this honorable court, and improper to 443 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: be spread upon the record thereof. I really want to 444 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:36,719 Speaker 1: know what was in that last Well. One of the 445 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: things was that the lady would be required to type 446 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: in the nude. Yeah, this is the nineteen ten. No, 447 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. I wonder how it would be 448 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: judged by today's standard. Oh, although I mean by today's standard. 449 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: If you sent a potential job candidate a letter that 450 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: said going to require you to be typing in the nude, Yeah, 451 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: you would get in some trouble for that. Sure, I 452 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: just don't know that you would say it was obscene 453 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: luden Lecity. No, I'm with you. They'd say that's kink. 454 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: But I think the so okay. George Kelly was a 455 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: kinky traveling preacher who had his wife in tow and 456 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: he was in Viliska at the time of the murders, 457 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: and he left that next morning on a train. Right. 458 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 1: But there was supposedly a witness that said that he 459 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: had a very incriminating statement when he got off of 460 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: that train that very morning. Yeah, he apparently referenced the murders, 461 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: but he had left town before they found out about 462 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,959 Speaker 1: the murders. But then later on those people recanted those statements, correct, Right, 463 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: So when Frank Jones f F. Jones had a grand 464 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: jury brought to hear evidence against him, he was exonerated. 465 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: Same thing, not with George Kelly. Actually, I should say 466 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: he was actually the only person to ever go to 467 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: trial for these murders, and he was tried twice. The 468 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 1: first time the jury found a eleven to one in 469 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: his favor. Yeah, the second jury acquitted him entirely. The 470 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: evidence against him was just too flimsy and it probably 471 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: wasn't him. Yeah, I mean the idea was they were 472 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: like he was at that church service, he's a pervert. 473 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: He saw these kids in the service, he went back 474 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: and peeked into their house and camped out in their barn. 475 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: And the evidence there was there were some hay bales 476 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: in the barn that had depressions as if someone had 477 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: been laying on them, and if you'd laid down in 478 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: one of them. There was a peephole right there in 479 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: the barn where he could see the house. This is 480 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: all pretty flimsy. There was also, though, I think one 481 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: of the reasons why the case was brought against him. 482 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: He was specifically tried for the murder of Lena still Injured, 483 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: and that's that's noteworthy because although they don't say in 484 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: the official court record directly that she may have been 485 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: sexually assaulted her, that some sort of sex crime had 486 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: been committed against her. Yeah, Supposedly she had been found 487 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: with her nightclothes hiked up over her waist, like above 488 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: her waist. Yeah, her undergarments had been taken off and 489 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 1: stuffed under the bed. Yeah, and then her her legs 490 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: had been arranged so that her genitalia was prominent. Right. 491 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: That was done after she had been murdered. And I 492 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: think that's one of the reasons why they suspected George Kelly, 493 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: because to add a sexual dimension to this brutal murder, 494 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: they said, well, this guy's just just enough of a 495 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: sex maniac for that to be possible. Yeah. Oh, I 496 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: forgot about this fact though. He actually returned a week 497 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: later and posed as a Scotland yard detective so he 498 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: could get a tour of the house. That is so 499 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: George Kelly, Well, it's definitely one of those things that 500 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: makes you go, wait a minute, returned to the scene 501 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: of the crime. You lied to get in there and 502 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: look at the house, right, but apparently everyone wanted to 503 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: go look at the house. Yeah, so it's and plus, 504 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: what's posing? You know, we've seen so many like cartoony 505 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: movies that like somebody gets like the deer stalker hat 506 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: and a pipe and says they're from Scotland Yard. Posing 507 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: could be like somebody saying like, oh, you must be 508 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: from Scotland Yard and like grunting in the affirmative. Yeah, 509 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: that's true. I guess that technically constitutes posing in the 510 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: real world. Apparently signed a confession. Oh yeah, that was 511 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: a big one too. Yeah, but I mean the confession 512 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: literally said I killed the children upstairs first and the 513 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: children downstairs last. I knew God wanted me to do 514 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: it this way. Slay utterly came to mind, and I 515 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: picked up the axe, went into the house and killed them. 516 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: But you know, he took it back later. It was like, yeah, 517 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: all that very specific stuff I said about killing this family, 518 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: it didn't really do it. So he was exonerated. So 519 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: so far, the little town of Veliska has looked around 520 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: and said we couldn't find any tramps. So who's the 521 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: person that hated Joe more the most f Jones? While 522 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't him, who's the weirdest pervert we can find? 523 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: Who was in town of the Yeah, that englishman George Kelly. 524 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: It wasn't him. So they didn't know. A lot of 525 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: people went to their graves dying, not knowing what happened. 526 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: And we still don't know what happened. But with the 527 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: hindsight of I guess, modern forensic techniques, modern profiling, and 528 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: the work of dedicated historians like Ed Upperley, we have 529 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: something of a clear picture emerging. And that picture seems 530 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: to be centering on a serial killer. We'll talk about 531 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: that theory more right after this. All right, so we've 532 00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: ruled out these locals local I guess in Kelly's case, 533 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: And now the modern take on this is that this 534 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: was a serial killer because in nineteen eleven and nineteen twelve, 535 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: there were a lot of axe murders in the Midwest, 536 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: at least ten everywhere from Colorado Springs to Ellsworth, Kansas. 537 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: And many of them had similar traits. Yeah, like some 538 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: very startlingly similar traits, right, but not all of them 539 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: and some of them are like, and we'll go through these, 540 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: but some were like, well, in five of them, these 541 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: same things happened, and two of them, these same things happen. 542 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: So it makes me wonder if it wasn't if they're 543 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: kind of grouping too many of these together. This does. 544 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: Ed Epperley actually whittles it down to five, including Veliska. 545 00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: Oh I thought it was three. Was at five? Five? 546 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: There's three that happened in nineteen eleven. There was one 547 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: that happened in Colorado Springs, Colorado that supposedly kicked the 548 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: whole thing off, followed by momouth in Illinois, I forgot 549 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: the s is silent, right, yeah, and then Ellsworth, Kansas. 550 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: Then there was one in Paola, Kansas, and then the 551 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: last one in Valiska. And those five crimes have some 552 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: similarities that make them really really suspicious. That the idea 553 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: of just like five different people or even a couple 554 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: of different people um separately committing these crimes, and as 555 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: Ed Eppersley puts it, kind of dismissively the idea that 556 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: these were local vendettas or you know, um that that 557 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: people were like, yeah, that's not what these these crimes 558 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: reflect at all. They reflect the work of a like 559 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: just a straight up nut job psychopath, whom are few 560 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: and far between. So the fact that these things occurred 561 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: between October of nineteen eleven in June of nineteen twelve 562 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: suggests strongly that that there was one person doing them. Yeah. Well, 563 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 1: there was that final one in Columbia, Missouri in December 564 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve, and one of the theories is that a 565 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: man named Henry Lee Moore killed Georgia Moore in Columbia, Missouri, 566 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: who was his mother, Mary Wilson. So is that the guy. No, 567 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: it would be weird to commit a series of murders 568 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: and then finish up with your own family, right, Usually 569 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: it's the other way around. Yeah, right, So, like, if 570 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: you're going to go off on a killing spree, usually 571 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: start your practice on your family first. Yeah, you can 572 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 1: get a feel for it, right. This guy, Henry Lee Moore, 573 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: aside from having three names, is not a good respect 574 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: for the serial killer, right. Um, he apparently wanted the 575 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: deeds to his family house, and um, like you said that, 576 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: it's very rare for a serial killer to go back. 577 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: You know, they deal with the three names. They don't 578 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: all have three names. No, I know, but so many 579 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: of them do. It's well, no, the news reports it 580 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: that way to distinguish them. Every other Henry Moore in 581 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: the world, gotcha, So like everyone's always like serial killers 582 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: have three names. No, they're just reported that way. That's awesome. Yeah, 583 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: I love it when things are just explained. Yeah, I 584 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: wrapped up in a nice little bow. Thanks for that. 585 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: Like Lee Harvey Oswald, he I think went by Lee Oswald. 586 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. So if anyone ever 587 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: writes a story about Charles Wayne Bryant, we're in trouble. 588 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm in trouble. No, I wouldn't kill you, 589 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: thanks man, I wouldn't kill you either. Hey, you want 590 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: to shake on it? It's Jerry witnessed. Yeah. Um. So 591 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: the Henry Lee Moore thing, he's almost like a red herring. 592 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: Like a lot of people say, well, he was the one. 593 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: He was a serial killer behind it because the serial 594 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: murder started right after he got out of prison in Kansas, Yes, 595 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: and then they ended right after he got caught in Columbia, 596 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: Missouri with his family. Yeah. I mean kind of makes sense, 597 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 1: it does, But that's where the whole thing really begins. 598 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: An end. So a lot of people say, well, it 599 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 1: wasn't henrally more so, it wasn't a serial killing. Well 600 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: plus uh sorry, but his killing his own family was 601 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: about obtaining the deeds to his family house. Yeah that's 602 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: what I was saying. Oh so that was greed motivated right, Okay, yeah, 603 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: not a serial psychopathic, sex based serial killing spree. Right, 604 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: this guy was just a jerk. Um. So, since Henry 605 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 1: Lee Moore is associated with the serial murder theory, once 606 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: somebody then finds out that it wasn't Henry Ly Moore, 607 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: they stopped thinking it was a serial murderer, right at 608 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 1: Epperly says not so fast. Wait, wait, wait, just because 609 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: Henry Lee Moore's out the equation, it doesn't mean there's 610 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: not a serial killer involved. Yeah, He's like, consider the 611 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: similarities between these five cases, and they're they're they're pretty thick. Right. 612 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: In a couple of the cases, there were oil lamps 613 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: found where chimney. The chimneys were removed and set aside, 614 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: and the wicks were bent in half to keep the 615 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 1: light low. Yeah, that's a big one. Axes were used 616 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: in four of the five, But he says that's just 617 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: probably a matter of convenience. A pipe I think was 618 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: used in the Mamouth, Illinois case, which is again an 619 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: implement of convenience too. Right, sure, don't have an axe, handy, 620 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: go for a lead pipe, right, Yeah, he probably didn't 621 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: bring that with you, right there were Tell him about 622 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: the Tell him about the mirrors, Chuck, Well, I mean 623 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: at several of these places the mirrors were covered up. 624 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,280 Speaker 1: I mean that's a big one. Yeah, mirrors and windows. 625 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: And in one of the places, the telephone was covered. 626 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: And the thought there is is that, like you said earlier, 627 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: like they don't want the victims to be watching them 628 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 1: even after death, or to be seen in the mirrors 629 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: and windows being covered. But the phone appearently it was 630 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: one of those old box phones on the wall that 631 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: you that you crank, and it has the two it 632 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: sort of looks like a face right when you look 633 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 1: at it. It has like looks like two eyes and 634 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: a nose. And so the thought was that that even 635 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: looks like a face to the Draine serial killer. So 636 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: they'll cover that up as well, right, because nothing else 637 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,919 Speaker 1: makes much sense. You know, you're not gonna in nineteen twelve, 638 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: You're not getting phone calls after midnight. You probably probably 639 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: don't get more than a couple of phone calls a 640 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: week in nineteen twelve, Right, most people I have phones? Yeah, 641 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: and throwing a sheet over it wouldn't like disable it anyway. No, 642 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: there was another female victim, a young female victim in 643 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: Monmouth who was found basically the same way that Lena's 644 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: still injury was found. Yeah, with her nightgown thrown up 645 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: over waist and her undergarments removed. And apparently there was 646 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: a similarity in I believe Mammoth in Valiska, where and 647 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: one other town too, where the killer was went on 648 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: to try to kill again. Yeah, this was the most 649 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: interesting to me. Either successfully did kill again. There was 650 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 1: one where he went to an adjacent house whose backyard 651 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: connected the first murder house and then went in and 652 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: killed another family right afterwards. That was Colorado Springs. And 653 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: then in Valiska, the telephone operator who was like sleeping 654 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: in the telephone switchboard headquarters because no calls were coming through. 655 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: She reported them the doorknob being tried about two hours 656 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: after the more house members were murdered. Yeah, like heard 657 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: footsteps come up to the door try to open it, 658 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: and then heard the footsteps leave. Yeah, that's a little shaky. 659 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,839 Speaker 1: But this, the last one was the one that kind 660 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: of sent the chill up my spine. It was the 661 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: one in Kansas specifically, you said, Paola, I bet you 662 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: there are people they're laughing because it's probably pronounced Paula 663 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: or something, probably but who knows p a l A. Kansas. 664 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: There was a second family, Missus Longmire, the Longmire family. 665 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: They were awakened she and her daughter at about midnight 666 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,879 Speaker 1: to the sound of broken glass, went downstairs and saw 667 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,800 Speaker 1: a dude in their dining room who had just broken 668 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: oil lamp chimney and then got the heck out of 669 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 1: there through a window. So they actually saw a guy. 670 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: So think about that, Chuck, Think about that they saw 671 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,240 Speaker 1: they woke up and saw the man who was about 672 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: to probably bludgeon them all to death with an axe. 673 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: This is probably yeah. And these were all trained towns, 674 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: so they were all linked by train depots. So by 675 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: all accounts, there was a train going serial killer for 676 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: a couple of years in the Midwest. Yeah, killing people 677 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: hopping trains. Never ever caught in that nuts, It is nuts, 678 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 1: And that the Valiska Acts murders were probably one of 679 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: his crazy, but we'll never know. No, you know, when 680 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: you say stuff like that or when you see stuff 681 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: like that in print too, like we'll never know who 682 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: it was, it makes you wonder, like what kind of 683 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: technology are we going to have in the future, Like 684 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,839 Speaker 1: will we never know or are we gonna come up 685 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: with something one day where we're like, oh, it was 686 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: this guy? Yeah, like now we know, you know, um 687 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:38,239 Speaker 1: who who knows the future knows? That's who knows. We 688 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: should do one on ed Gean. Okay, that's like kind 689 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: of one of the big big ones we haven't covered. Okay, 690 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: I got a couple more too. Oh yeah, I don't 691 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: want to I don't want to even tease him yet. Okay, okay, 692 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,800 Speaker 1: true crime. Maybe we'll do one and uh like this October. Okay, 693 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: we used to do multiple kind of creepy episodes. I 694 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 1: think we did last time too. That's October. You all right, 695 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:08,839 Speaker 1: we'll look forward to another ghoulish serial killer type thing. Okay, yeah, 696 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: we did hinter Kfec I think think so. Yeah. Okay, 697 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,760 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about the veliska Ax murders, 698 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: well again strongly recommend you go look up ed Epperley. 699 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: You can read the Smithsonian article um the ax Murder 700 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 1: Who Got Away, which was great, and there were plenty 701 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: of other articles that we relied on that we love. 702 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for those. In the meantime, you can also 703 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: hang out with us on HowStuffWorks dot com and our 704 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: famous search bar and s it's us a search bar. 705 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:42,880 Speaker 1: Got it in there. It's Sime for listener mail. Hey guys, 706 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,800 Speaker 1: love the show, and now I have even more reason 707 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: to promote your podcast. Everyone. I know. I work in 708 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: a small family business with my cousin. In this previous 709 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: January start experiencing severe gastrointestinal issues. Oh I love this email. 710 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: Yeah remember this one? It was like from yesterday. Yeah. 711 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: I won't go into detail, but for months afterward, he 712 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: saw specialists after specialists hoping to find out the route 713 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: tested for Crohn's ulcers, ibs, everything under the sun, none 714 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,320 Speaker 1: of which had a positive result or diagnosis. Couldn't focus 715 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,359 Speaker 1: on anything, no energy, took a ton of time away 716 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: from work. He felt totally lost and even sought the 717 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: help of a psychologist because of his diminished work ethic 718 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,320 Speaker 1: deteriorating quality of life. Do you see where this is going? People? 719 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,359 Speaker 1: I think listeners might know and he was southered. One 720 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: day last month, he was Southern. Actually, he came in 721 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: after a doctor's appointment and said he developed an iron 722 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: deficient anemia to add to his list of issues. At first, 723 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: it sounded disconnected until and I kid you, this isn't 724 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,839 Speaker 1: all caps. I kid you not, Josh and Chuck. I 725 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: was listening to your Hookworm episode that day, man. When 726 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,359 Speaker 1: he got to the part about the aggressive iron deficient anemia, 727 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 1: I lost my mind. I looked up hookworm infection symptoms, 728 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,280 Speaker 1: immediately brought it to my cousin and he had every 729 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: last symptom. Is doctor prescribed a medication and he is 730 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: currently being de wormed. From the first day he started 731 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: his treatment, he had a noticeable increase in both mood 732 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: and energy. I don't know how these symptoms could have 733 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: slipped by a half dozen gps and specialists, but I 734 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: truly can't thank you both enough of your podcast and 735 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,919 Speaker 1: its wide range of topics. That is, James and Saint 736 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 1: Pete Florida. That is so awesome, man, dude head hookworm. 737 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: Can you believe it? In man? Thank you James, and 738 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 1: good luck to you cousin. Way to go for being 739 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: so smart to connect the dots too. I think your 740 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 1: cousin owes you a pizza or a beer or whatever 741 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 1: you may be both. Yeah, Yeah, trip to Chuck e 742 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 1: Cheese Drunk. If you want to get in touch with 743 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,480 Speaker 1: us to tell us an amazing story like James did, 744 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 1: you can tweet to us sysk podcasts, and you can 745 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 1: send us all an email, including Jerry at stuff podcast 746 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: at HowStuffWorks dot com and has always joined us at 747 00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 1: Home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot com. 748 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 749 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 750 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows