WEBVTT - TechStuff Looks For Abandonware 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.960 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:08.840 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:17.560 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello everyone, 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.840 welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette, and 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:22.919 I am an editor at how stuff works dot com. 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:24.960 And much as I have wanted to abandon him in 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.680 the past, sitting across from me as usual, senior writer 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.599 Jonathan Strickland, the silence of a falling star lights up 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.160 the purple sky, and as I wonder where you are, 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:41.440 I'm so lonesome I could cry. Very nicely done. Thank you. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.840 Today we think Hank would have done it that way, 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:49.360 Hank SA. Today we're going to talk about abandoned ware. 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.240 Yes we uh, we've had requests to talk about abandoned ware, 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:55.440 and this is UM and we've talked about abandon weare 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.360 in the past, just not as a dedicated topic. Yeah, 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.240 we've also talked about vapor ware, just a totally different thing, UM, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.360 if you might wonder what the differences are. Vaporware is 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:09.600 when a company has announced or information is leaked out 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:11.560 that a company is working on a particular product, but 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.560 that probably never seems to actually go to market. Oh, 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.319 I thought it was the kind of software that every 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.039 once in a while just meaning you feel light headed, 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.480 I'm already got a headache. I've already got a headache. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.680 So that's different. I'll tell you what that means, and 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.200 you'll like it because you like that kind of humor. Uh. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.240 The but no, the the abandoned ware is when a 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:38.240 company has produced a piece of well product mainly, but 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.440 we usually talk about in terms of software. More frequently 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.560 than not, we talked about in terms of games, although 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:46.440 that's not the only kind of abandoned ware. But a 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:52.120 company produces this the the but then technology continues to 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.880 evolve over time, and no, yeah, I know it's crazy, 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:01.240 right really, so the things like uters, Let's let's say 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.400 a computer, it gets so advanced that it can no 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.640 longer run older software. I'm aware of that. Yeah, where 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.079 you get to a point where you know, if software 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.880 has been produced before a certain point, your computer is 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.320 not really able to run it anymore because things have 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.959 changed so dramatically. And then companies will sort of stop 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.840 supporting this old software that they produced years ago. Okay, 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.160 so if they no longer provide any support or they 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:32.080 discontinued it, that's abandoned ware. If a company creates some 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.880 software that is, you know, hits the market and then 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:39.880 that company ceases to exist, that software may be considered 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.840 abandonware because now there's no there's no place you can 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.560 buy it anymore because the company that was in charge 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.800 of it is gone. This can happen through an acquisition 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.080 or a merger where certain divisions get dissolved or merged 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.120 into other divisions and as a result, pieces of software 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:59.679 no longer have a kind of a a a shepherd 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.519 to keep the software going. So what happens to that software? 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.480 What happens if you want to have access to that software? 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:09.640 How can you do it? Are there legal ways of 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:14.200 getting at it? And uh, it's a little complicated. Yeah, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.960 the uh the in the context we brought it up 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.280 in before, we were talking about the multiple machine or 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:25.440 multiple arcade machine emulator. Name, Um, you coax the blues 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:30.560 right out of the horn. Sorry name anti name yes? 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:36.680 Um not a n T I yes um. So yeah, 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.920 name is for those of you who don't know, basically, 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:44.200 a way of uh running the programs that old arcademan 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.680 will actually not necessarily old that arcade machines would run 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:51.560 in their cabinets on a home computer. Right now, keep 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.080 in mind that arcade machines, the the software for those 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:59.520 machines was built specifically for the hardware inside the arcade machine. 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:03.800 You wouldn't opening up an arcade cabinet and find a 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.400 a computer in there, right, It wouldn't look like a computer. 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:08.720 It would look like a whole bunch of different chips 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:15.320 wired together. And yeah, and and so it's hardwired into 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.040 the uh the hardware. You don't you don't put a 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.760 disc in, at least not most arcade games. I know 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.320 there are a few that run on laser disc, but 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:25.599 that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.560 like it's reading directly from a chip. A similar example 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.160 would be when you if you ever played console games 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.920 that used cartridges. The cartridge had the ROM on it, 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.559 and the console just had the the technology to read 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.120 the ROM and then translate that into a game. So 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.839 for a computer, you would have to create an emulator, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.120 something that could create an environment similar to the hardware 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.120 that you would find inside that arcade machine in order 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.680 if you to run the ROM on a computer. And 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:59.880 sometimes this would work well and you would have a 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.920 pretty uh similar experience as to if you were sitting 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.440 in front of an arcade machine and playing it, and 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:08.479 in some cases it doesn't work so well because the 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:13.320 computer's architecture and the arcade architecture are so different that 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:17.279 the game stutters or just runs really slowly. Yeah, so 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:21.320 then you have the question you you're able to run 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:26.560 this uh software and on your home computer, and you 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.479 have something like say Kangaroo, and you want to play 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.599 Kangaroo on your home computer, and you go, wait a minute, 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.080 Attari still exists. I mean, truth is, it's a different 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:41.000 Attari technically, but they own the copyright for that stuff. 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.840 Now you know. That's one thing. Then on the other hand, 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:49.599 you have something like say Defender, and then you'd say, okay, 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:53.320 well who owns the stuff that Williams used to make? 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.840 Or Robotron for that matter. Um okay, So that's that's 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:02.400 one version. Um My. My other example was was going 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.839 to be I was gonna ask you if you thought 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.360 that if I brought my copy of Deluxe Video Construction 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.880 Set to Electronic Arts for Miamiga, do you think they'd 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:17.359 support it or sim Ant for that matter, from Maxis 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.680 before it was acquired by Electronic Arts. I don't think so. 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.200 But the thing is, the question is you know I 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.400 can legally use that software because I still own the 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.600 disks for sim Ant, even though I never really had 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:29.720 enough memory in my Amiga to run it. You wouldn't 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.200 be able to distribute it. I can't distribute it, but 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.360 I legally can run that all I want to. Now, 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:44.720 for something like Maime the in in some cases the 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:49.599 manufacturer is still around. In some cases it's a different 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.080 version of the manufacturer who legally owns the copyright, and 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.560 in other cases the manufacturers gone and it's hard to 0:06:55.640 --> 0:07:00.440 identify who, if anybody, owns the copyright. And this actually 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:05.039 is it presents some seriously thorny legal issues, right, So 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.760 let's let's clear things up a little bit here. Uh, 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.680 if there is an old piece of software, it's available 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:17.800 online and there hasn't been any express permission from the 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:22.320 copyright holder that that software can be distributed, distributing that 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:27.680 software is illegal. Yes, it violates copyright. Now, that being said, 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.080 copyright is one of those things that only works if 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.920 you exercise your right to the copyright. In other words, 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.400 the copyright owner would have to pursue action against anyone 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.600 distributing that content. So if you are if you come 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.600 across an old game from the the late eighties, let's say, 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.880 and it's an old doss based game on the little 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.560 from the late eighties, and you wanted to you love 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.240 this game and you want other people to explore this 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.440 game and experience this game, and there is no way 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.960 to buy the game because the game, the company doesn't exist, 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.600 or the company still exists but no longer markets this 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.880 gamer supports it, then you might feel, well, what's the harm? 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.720 I mean, no one's no one's trying to make money 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.040 off of this. No one is losing money off of 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.640 this because there's no way to legitimately get ahold of this. 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:21.920 Why is there an issue? And it's all because of 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:25.360 that copyright and the copyright holder may choose to not 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:30.080 pursue action. It doesn't mean that it's legal. It just 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.400 means the copyright holder is allowing the that material to 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.920 be distributed. And said, wouldn't you know what I picked? 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:40.640 A bad example for a video game was just Kangaroo 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.560 really Attari. It was distributed by Atari, but actually it 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.800 was a product by Sun Electronics. Did you wear like 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.000 little boxing gloves in that game? And you had to 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.040 box stuff as a kangaroo. I vaguely remember playing that. 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.560 It was it was it was very Donkey Kong like 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.440 because you climbed up to the top and had to 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.440 find your Joey, you know, the baby kangaroo right, right, 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.520 So anyhow, so the substitute centipede for what I said before. Anyway, 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.560 So getting back to copyrights. Now, a copyright, the term 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.840 of a copyright right now, lasts for in the United States, 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.640 last for seventy five years from the creation of the work, 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:21.040 unless it's a work for higher right years, right, And 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.600 so yeah, a work for high would be last even longer. 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:25.439 And most of these, I guess would be considered work 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:26.920 for high, which is why I brought it up. That's 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.000 a good point. So in other words, this is software 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.559 that is going to be is still protected by copyright 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:37.160 and will be for pretty much our lifetime, right. I mean, 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.760 some of us might get really lucky, maybe the Singularity 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.040 will hit, and it won't that won't be a problem. 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:45.960 But at that point, who's playing video games? Well, if 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.880 you wanted to play Space War, you're probably in fairly 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.360 decent shape because that was created so much earlier than 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.600 this stuff. Yeah, the games that were created in the eighties. Um, 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.760 even our our younger listeners would have problems with this 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:06.000 all the way through. Yeah, so by legal definition strictly 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.839 going by that, it is not there's no real recourse 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:16.600 unless the copyright holder gives permission for distribution or releases 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:21.079 the copyright into the public domain. Now at that point, 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.880 you know it's weird to call the software abandoned ware 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.040 because abandoned ware really means this software that doesn't have 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:35.400 really any support or or access through legitimate channels. So 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.440 it's not like it's abandoned where that point, it's just 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.360 public domain work, so it becomes more like shareware in 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:46.080 a way. But a copyright holder does have that option. Uh. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.960 And in some cases you you see companies take advantage 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.960 of old, old, old libraries of content and repackage them 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.679 and market them again, which would mean that you wouldn't 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.199 want to host those abandon and wear games on your site, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:06.079 for example, because they are actually making money from this 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.079 old content and there are legitimate ways to get hold 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.199 of it. A good example of that as Atari, because 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.880 you've got the old Atari games that get repackaged occasionally 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:20.520 as an app for a smartphone or tablet device. Also, 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.120 you get some console games that will occasionally come out. 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:25.040 They'll be like the best of and it will be 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.280 whatever the old company was. Like. You can even get 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.120 a version of the if you really want it. Yeah, 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.600 but that's a little oh new one. They're making new 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.320 ones now, is that on thinking? I'm not sure the 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:42.080 Dreamcast was. Somebody told me recently that they saw a 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:47.360 new quote unquote new packaged with some of the early games. 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.760 That's basically a relieve the past. That's the whole retro thing. 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:57.200 But they're there hundreds and hundreds of computer titles, PC titles, 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:01.920 Windows titles, do space titles even that, Uh, well, we'll 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:06.920 probably never re emerge. And so the question comes, well, 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.360 what's the best way of handling this. There are a 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:12.960 lot of sites out there that are dedicated to abandoned ware. 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.400 And these sites are the really the ones that are 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:21.000 more legitimate And I use the phrase loosely because again 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.640 we're talking about violating copyright one way or the other. 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.600 But the ones that are more concerned with offering people 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.440 the chance to play games that are the equivalent to 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.679 being out of print or otherwise unavailable. Um, they're very 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:39.920 much about not hosting what are also called whares. Whares 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.200 would be kinds of software that's essentially pirate, ID or 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:47.280 duplicated that's readily available on the market today. Basically the 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.360 copy protection has been cracked and you can use it. 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.040 You know, when I say freely, I don't mean you're 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.960 allowed to use it, I mean you don't have code. 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.640 So but but the more the more legitimate abandoned ware 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.600 sites will only host games that you cannot get through 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.400 any other means unless you were defined like someone selling 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.280 an old copy. But uh, you know that you wouldn't 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.880 be able to go to the publisher and buy it 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.280 because sometimes the publisher doesn't even exist. Well, um, there 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.040 are there are people out there who in some of 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.079 them are content creators, who say there should be a 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:29.240 more streamlined way too for for companies to release abandoned ware, 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:34.080 so that there isn't this, uh, this legal barrier, especially 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.079 considering the fact that software changes much more rapidly than 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:41.239 say print. And uh. One of them is Greg Kostickian. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.560 Now do you know who have you ever heard of? 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.360 Greg Custician. He's a He's a game designer who designs 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.800 not just computer games but also role playing games. His 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.079 name is really familiar to me, and I'm gonna go 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.080 ah as soon as you say, well, he's He's designed 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:56.800 a lot of stuff. Most of it is kind of 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:03.800 has a has sort of a tyrtcal or otherwise humorous 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.920 slant to it. For example, he created an role playing 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:11.160 game called Tune Back In, where you played as a 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.200 cartoon character within a cartoon episode. Every single adventure was 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.800 modeled after the idea of a seven minute cartoon episode, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.000 and you would have the capabilities of a cartoon character, 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.240 and you would have friends and enemies within the cartoon, 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.840 and you could do these outlandish things. It was hilarious. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.680 He also created a game called Paranoia, which was all 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:37.320 about a post apocalyptic uh society where you live in 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:41.240 a essentially like a biodome kind of thing, and a 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.640 computer controls everything. But the computer is crazy and paranoid 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.000 and thinks everyone is out to get him, and pretty 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.880 much everyone is out to get him, and then but anyway, 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.480 they hope just because al right, the whole purpose of 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.240 the game was to create this idea of paranoia. Well, 0:14:55.320 --> 0:15:00.160 this guy, who created several different computer games as well, said, uh, 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.280 actually have a quote. Software is about as ephemeral as 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.240 you can get yet preserving it is essential. Illegal abandoned 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.480 ware sites are providing a critical service to game designers 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.720 and scholars and gaming enthusiasts. They do, not, however, provide 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.360 a lasting and satisfactory solution to the problem because they 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.560 are illegal. So he was maintaining the point of these 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.720 old games that exist are important, and they're important culturally 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.080 because some of them were what helped usher in the 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.480 era of personal computers in the first place. I mean, 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.920 you know, personal computers were great for productivity, but there's 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.320 no denying that video games. Computer games really drove the 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:45.200 industry as well. And as the the technology advances, our 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.280 ability to access those old games decreases, and he says, 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.400 that's that's a shame. There should be a way to 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:54.160 preserve that. And also, as he points out game designers, 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.880 you know, some of these old games are very primitive 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.280 when it comes to the graphics or the sound owned, 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:05.040 but a lot of them had very innovative gameplay or 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.920 very compelling storylines and are great lessons for game designers 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.800 to to learn from. Sure, you know, I would argue 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.680 the Old Ultimate series, for example, is a very valuable 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:21.280 series for people who want to create a storyline that 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.800 spans several episodes and has a very kind of deep 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.880 um and and immersive quality to it. Now, I should 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.720 also had that the Ultimate Series has regularly been released 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.680 in packages where you could buy it legitimately, So don't 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.760 go out there and start piotying games. Look and make 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.600 sure first before that, make sure there's a legitimate way 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.520 of getting it, and go that way before ever going 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:50.320 with abandoned ware route. But um, but yeah, as a 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.280 producer of games, he was pointing out that this is 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.480 a valuable service that abandoned weare sites are giving us 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.160 that without it, we would lose these games. And you know, 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.600 unless some company was like, hey, we need to roll 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:07.320 out another product or we're not going to hit our 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.280 revenue this year, what titles do we have in the 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.440 vault that we could package together hastily and then shove 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.440 out the door. Occasionally you see that happen. Well, it 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.440 would be nice if some of the people who own 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.840 the copyrights to these would release these these programs in 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:26.520 some form. Um. You know, the the app stores for 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.680 the mobile devices have proven that, you know, even even 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.600 software that costs one or two dollars for a copy 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.360 of it can still make a decent amount of money, 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.440 and uh, you know some of these titles are languishing 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.240 an obscurity when you know people might really be willing 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.520 to pay one to five dollars for an opportunity to 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.120 play it again. It's not really a lot of money 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.680 for most people, and they might relish the opportunity to 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.600 give it another shot. I think we have the opportunity 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.440 to actually see that happen now because digital distribution is 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.720 a reality the right. Like Chris and I can both 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:04.800 remember a time where you would go to your local 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.840 computer store or electronics store and there would always be 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:12.960 that bin of the old games that that were four 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.159 three or four generations behind the current stuff that's up 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.400 on the shelves, and you would sort through that ben 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.200 and just look to see if there were any hidden 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.280 gems in there, and then you find something like, oh, 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.399 I always wanted to play that, and you pick it up, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.600 and you know, you might get a copy of Civilization 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.400 that way. But that was back in the old day 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.119 where you would get like the floppy disks I was 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:35.679 thinking you were talking about during the video game console crash, 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:39.679 when you would go into your corner drug store and 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.920 there would be a bin of really horrible Attari cartridges 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.280 for you know, a dollar, the same sort of thing 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.280 where they were just unloading their inventory. But those days 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.960 are are you know, pretty much disappearing because you get 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.119 to digital distribution, you get to the era of the 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.840 c D really started to decrease it, but then digital 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.640 attribution has has taken a big hit on it too. 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.600 But that also gives the opportunity for companies to put 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.479 potentially put up old titles for you know, like the 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.000 same price that you would have for an app or 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.080 for a smartphone. So let's say that you throw up Mule, 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:21.240 the old Mule game, or ARCon ARCon Yeah, put those 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:25.960 old populus, yes, um, put these old games up on 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.080 or battle Chess, these old games up so that you 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.919 can buy them for likes or whatever. And and you know, 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.119 maybe package it with a free emulator if you need it, 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.359 because some of these old games will not run on 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.520 your current system unless first put through an emulator. I 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.920 have old machines for strictly that purpose. And before before 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:47.919 you write in and say, you know, why do you 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.119 want people to spend this money, this property should be free, 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.400 Well that's an option too. It would be really cool 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.119 if they If these companies were released these games into 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:01.320 the public domain, however, I think they might have more 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:06.479 incentive if uh they charged a small price and then 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:08.760 they would get something in return for it. It's sort 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.359 of like the Chris Anderson's long tail and the the 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.680 online stores versus the brick and mortar stores. I mean, 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.240 if you put that up for digital distribution, it could 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.439 stay there virtually forever. You're still going to be a 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:24.600 handful of people that are willing to fork over a 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.920 couple of bucks for it. Yeah. And and I think 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:31.000 I think that solution really provides an elegant approach to 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:35.120 this complicated issue because you've got, for one thing, you know, 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:38.760 it gives an incentive to these companies to share this 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.199 old stuff that you can't otherwise get. Um And and 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.080 people can relive like that moment from their childhood when 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.240 they played this one game that they loved and now 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.040 they can't they can't get it anymore. Um. It also 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.480 gives the the you know, it gives the fans what 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.879 they want. It's not prohibitively expensive if you go with 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.600 this this micro hayment kind of app approach. Um. And 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.880 also it tells companies what people are interested in. If 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.240 you were to create an a section of your site, 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:15.080 for example, that hosted the old titles for cheap purchase, 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:17.200 and you saw that one of those titles was getting 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.639 hit like crazy, people were just buying it up, you 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:24.320 might think, you know, we could probably do a follow up, like, 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.040 just do an incredible follow up that is based on 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.360 the same premise of this original game, maybe not a remake, 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:34.399 but even perhaps a long awaited sequel and clean up, 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.560 because we didn't realize there was this interest in this 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.480 old title that we owned. Now, this does not solve 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:43.200 the problem for those titles where the ownership is up 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:46.120 in the air, like no one knows who owns this anymore. 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.080 Those that's still you're gonna you're still gonna have that 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.520 problem where if there's a title where you're not really 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.800 sure that the is the copyright holder of the guy 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.359 who made it, is that this other company, is it 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:59.800 a company that bought you know, bought a company, that 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.680 a company that bought a company. That's where you start 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:07.680 getting two issues where these games may be hopelessly mired 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.840 in red tape. That's just it's until you figure out 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:13.480 who is the owner of that copyright and who has 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.560 the authority to do this. It will never happen, and 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.320 that you know, the abandoned ware approach is pretty much 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:21.960 the only way you're gonna get hold of those games. Um, 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:25.159 and it's not a legitimate way. Yeah, yeah, now, okay, 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.320 this is from from the perspective of the law. I'm 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.880 sorry I shouldn't say that, because sometimes I'm like, hey, 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:33.080 you know what, I love that game. I bought that game, 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:34.720 I played that game. There's no way for me to 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:39.040 get it, and my sense of entitlement is crying out. Well, 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:43.960 this is where things get interesting. Um. Let's say you 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:50.800 have um an old at and you bought a copy 0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:54.800 of Yards Revenge, and you have the machine, and you've 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:58.320 got the the game. It's it's in your basement, it's 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.400 in a box, but you got it. It's storage unfortunately 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:07.160 doesn't work anymore, or you don't have an adapter, and 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:09.280 and you really can't play because the machine is dead. 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.679 But I know, hey, it's a museum piece, so you 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.399 hold onto it, and then you find an emulator for 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.520 your computer with yours Revenge where you can play the 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:23.480 attor version of it. The thing is from what I understand. Again, 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.680 keep in mind I'm not a lawyer, but theoretically, from 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.240 what I understand, you're entitled to play that because you 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.399 have a copy of the game. You already paid for it, 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:34.400 you have a copy of the game in your possession, 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:37.639