Speaker 1: Welcome to Part Time Genius, the production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Guess what, Mango, what's that? Well, it is officially Charlie
Speaker 1: Brown Season. I know, I am so excited. You know,
Speaker 1: right between Thanksgiving Christmas is when my family buckles down
Speaker 1: and we watch all those specials, and it is wild.
Speaker 1: That's been over fifty years since some of the big
Speaker 1: ones actually came out. But what is weirdest to me
Speaker 1: is that my kids are so into Charlie Brown, like
Speaker 1: it's almost quaint. Ruby had a Peppermint Patty birthday party
Speaker 1: when she turned three because she assumed everyone was into
Speaker 1: Peppermint Patty two. Uh, and so we just hand out
Speaker 1: headbands and did at a gym. I love this fact,
Speaker 1: and the fact that probably more than half the kids
Speaker 1: had no idea who Peppermint Patty was, at least going
Speaker 1: into the party. I'm sure Ruby told him all about her.
Speaker 1: But anyway, So, so why are they so into the specials?
Speaker 1: You know, I have no idea of something just clicked
Speaker 1: with them. But like Henry actually based his Thanksgiving speech
Speaker 1: a few years ago completely on the one that, uh,
Speaker 1: I think Charlie Brown gives and Thanksgiving special and and
Speaker 1: we've definitely watched It's a Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown and
Speaker 1: Charlie Brown Christmas a whole bunch of times. But you know,
Speaker 1: they're even into some of the oddball ones like Race
Speaker 1: for Your Life Charlie Brown, which is about the gang
Speaker 1: going to camp. That's very good. I mean, you did
Speaker 1: hit on some of the big ones there, but I
Speaker 1: do think you forgot one of the most important of
Speaker 1: them all. Really. Oh yeah, of course, It's Arbor Day
Speaker 1: Charlie Brown. I do not think we watched that one.
Speaker 1: Is that a real thing? We're just making that up? Oh,
Speaker 1: it's absolutely a real thing. It was just one of
Speaker 1: the forty five Charlie Brown specials out there, forty five.
Speaker 1: I had no idea that that many. Oh man, I'm surprised,
Speaker 1: Like you don't watch It's the Easter Beagle Charlie Brown
Speaker 1: every single east. I don't know how could be Easter
Speaker 1: without that special. And actually there's also It's Your First
Speaker 1: Kiss Charlie Brown, which is another classic and also I
Speaker 1: guess kind of weird. But we've got a lot of
Speaker 1: catching up to do here, and with the holiday season
Speaker 1: upon us, we thought now would be the perfect time
Speaker 1: to look into the history of our favorite melancholy grade schoolers.
Speaker 1: So we'll talk about the origin of the comics trip,
Speaker 1: including the real life inspiration behind some of the characters,
Speaker 1: the story of how the beloved Christmas Special came to be,
Speaker 1: and how it was very nearly canceled in production. Now,
Speaker 1: of course, we'll also talk a little bit about the
Speaker 1: reason why creator Charles Schultz hated the name Peanuts and
Speaker 1: why some fans can't stand Snoopy. There's a lot to cover,
Speaker 1: so let's dive in. Hey there, podcast listeners, welcome the
Speaker 1: part time genius. I'm Will Pearson, and as always I'm
Speaker 1: joined by my good friend man guest Ticketer and on
Speaker 1: the other side of the soundproof glass just shuffling a
Speaker 1: stack of buttered toast, kind of like it's a deck
Speaker 1: of cars. It's our friends and producer Tristan McNeil. And
Speaker 1: I do have to admit when Tristan said he wanted
Speaker 1: to recreate the famous meal from the Peanuts Thanksgiving Special,
Speaker 1: I really never dreamed it would be this theatrical. But
Speaker 1: it's really quite a show. Don't you think you didn't
Speaker 1: think Tristan would be theatrical? I don't know. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just surprised me. Yeah, I mean, I have no
Speaker 1: idea how he's doing this. He's he's wearing those slices
Speaker 1: like he's a blackjack dealer or something. But I like
Speaker 1: that he's getting the Thanksgiving Special a little love. I
Speaker 1: feel like it's always the one that gets overshadowed by both,
Speaker 1: like the Hallyween Special and the Christmas Special. But you know,
Speaker 1: we've had a saft spot for Charlie Brown Thanksgiving at
Speaker 1: my house, especially where um Snoopy puts together that last
Speaker 1: minute feast for Charlie Brown and he's got all that
Speaker 1: popcorn and pretzels. But when the kids are gone, Snoopy
Speaker 1: and Woodstock are just back of their doghouse and they've
Speaker 1: got a lavish spread for themselves with like punkin pie,
Speaker 1: roasted vegetable as even this giant cooked turkey, and they're
Speaker 1: basically living it off while the kids were just eating
Speaker 1: you know, snack food. I mean, it's kind of a
Speaker 1: jerk move, but when you think about it, it's it's
Speaker 1: that mix of whimsy and low key meanness that are
Speaker 1: sort of par for the course for peanuts that actually,
Speaker 1: for instance, they never strike you as just a little
Speaker 1: bit weird that Woodstock would help Snoopy carve and eat
Speaker 1: the turkey. I mean, Woodstock is a bird if you
Speaker 1: haven't noticed. You know what's funny about it is that
Speaker 1: I never actually gave it much thought. But it turns
Speaker 1: out you're not alone in this. Lee Mendelssohn, who was
Speaker 1: the executive producer on the Peanuts Specials, he actually objected
Speaker 1: to that scene because he was so weird it out
Speaker 1: by it, But because the idea had comes straight from
Speaker 1: Charles Schultz, the Peanuts creator, he was just overruled and
Speaker 1: the scene aired as planned. But uh, you know what
Speaker 1: was funny is that Mendelssohn did eventually get his way.
Speaker 1: So all these years later, CBS asked Mendelsson to cut
Speaker 1: three minutes from the specials so they could fit in,
Speaker 1: you know, more commercials, and Mendelssohn sees the chance and
Speaker 1: he removed that scene of Woodstock eating her geese that
Speaker 1: you can only see him eating pie instead. But then
Speaker 1: a few years later, the rights of the special move
Speaker 1: to ABC and the network decided to air it on cut,
Speaker 1: meaning Woodstock is once again accountable. It feels a little
Speaker 1: bit odd to be kicking off our Peanuts show with
Speaker 1: a fact about bird cannibalism, but it also kind of
Speaker 1: feels appropriate, you know, given how dark Charlie Brown and
Speaker 1: his chums could often be. Actually, in fact, have you
Speaker 1: ever seen the very first Peanuts trip? I have, and
Speaker 1: I don't remember it. Yeah, so it shows a boy
Speaker 1: and a girl just sitting on the sidewalk and this boy,
Speaker 1: Schemy is his name. He says, well, here comes good
Speaker 1: old Charlie Brown. Good old Charlie Brown. Yes, sir, good
Speaker 1: old Charlie Brown. And then when Charlie Brown is out
Speaker 1: of sight, Cheremi adds, how I hate him, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's the punch line. So yeah, there's there's definitely
Speaker 1: some darkness to the world of Peanuts, no matter how
Speaker 1: cute or simplistic the characters might look. But there's also
Speaker 1: incredible warmth and humor there as well, and it feels,
Speaker 1: I guess that unique mix that really made Peanuts this
Speaker 1: enduring part of pop culture, not only in the US
Speaker 1: but all around the world. So we've definitely got a
Speaker 1: lot to go through today. But where do you think
Speaker 1: you want to start? Why don't we spend a few
Speaker 1: minutes on the man behind the Peanuts himself Charles M. Schultz.
Speaker 1: So this name sounds familiar enough because we've all seen
Speaker 1: his name a million times. It's signed at the bottom
Speaker 1: of each and every Peanuts strip, all seventeen thousand eight
Speaker 1: of them. But despite the constant exposure, lots of people
Speaker 1: still misname him as Shultz with the T. It's actually
Speaker 1: s C h U l z. And according to Medium,
Speaker 1: the misspelling is so common that's actually appeared wrong in
Speaker 1: more than thirty thousand articles to date, as well as
Speaker 1: the original opening to the Peanuts Christmas Special. I guess
Speaker 1: someone caught it at the very last minute, but there
Speaker 1: was an error that was going to be aired in
Speaker 1: the premier Wow. You know, I guess I've actually never
Speaker 1: thought about this, and I'm sure that I'm guilty of
Speaker 1: making the same mistake. But what kind of name is Schultz? Like?
Speaker 1: Is it German? Yeah? That Carl Schultz immigrated from Germany
Speaker 1: to Minnesota, which is where he met charless mom Dina,
Speaker 1: and Charles was this only child. He was born in
Speaker 1: ninety two. He grew up in St. Paul. But what's
Speaker 1: interesting is that St. Paul is one of the few
Speaker 1: places in the country that has both super hot summers
Speaker 1: and freezing cold winters, and it's the same for the
Speaker 1: Peanuts kids, right, Like, there's so many strips that are
Speaker 1: centered on these summer activities like playing baseball, flying kites,
Speaker 1: selling lemonade on hot days. But then you have a
Speaker 1: ton of strips where there's like a foot of snow
Speaker 1: on the ground and everyone's playing ice hockey. So then
Speaker 1: it is Peanuts actually set in St. Paul. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's some debate about that. Some fans think the strip
Speaker 1: is set near Santa Rosa, California, which is where Schultz
Speaker 1: lived once the Peanuts became a hit. But you know,
Speaker 1: that doesn't make much sense when you look at all
Speaker 1: all the strips set in the winter. But what little
Speaker 1: evidence there is in the strips does kind of point
Speaker 1: to either St. Paul or Minneapolis as their hometown. For instance,
Speaker 1: there's a strip in nineteen fifty seven that implied that
Speaker 1: the character has lived in Hennepin County, which is in Minnesota,
Speaker 1: And two years before that there was one where Schroeder
Speaker 1: confesses he always thought his hero Beethoven was a native
Speaker 1: in Minnesota, which you know is presumably just like him.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, although that makes sense and you'd actually
Speaker 1: expect the cartoonists to set the strip about childhood in
Speaker 1: their hometown. That wouldn't be that surprising, and it'll be
Speaker 1: pretty on theme for Schultz, because when you look at
Speaker 1: the comics, so many elements of the Peanuts strip turn
Speaker 1: out to be somewhat biographical. I mean, just listen to
Speaker 1: this breakdown. Shuremy was a childhood friend. Schroeder was a
Speaker 1: caddy at the golf course Schultz worked at as a teenager.
Speaker 1: Lionus and Lucy van Pelt got their last name from
Speaker 1: a man's Schultz served in the army with. Meanwhile, Lucy's
Speaker 1: character was inspired by Schultz's first wife and his mother.
Speaker 1: I guess there's a lot to unpack there, but that
Speaker 1: does seem to be the case. Actually, I was reading
Speaker 1: this tribute to Charles Schultz from Bill Waterson, who is
Speaker 1: my hero and uh who did the comnt in Hobbs strips,
Speaker 1: and he thought of pe Nuts as the gold standard
Speaker 1: of comic strips, and this is his take on Lucy quote.
Speaker 1: I was struck less by the fact that Schultz drew
Speaker 1: on his troubled marriage for material than by the sympathy
Speaker 1: that he shows for his tormentor and by his ability
Speaker 1: to poke fun at himself, which is actually pretty interesting,
Speaker 1: like like, you know, Lucy is annoying and mean spirited,
Speaker 1: but you don't ever really hate her for it. Now,
Speaker 1: that's true. And you know he was looking for inspiration everywhere.
Speaker 1: Even line is his famous blue blanket came straight from
Speaker 1: Schultz's life. When his daughter was younger, she was obsessed
Speaker 1: with her own security blanket. Yeah. I mean, of course
Speaker 1: you're gonna be stealing from life when you've got like
Speaker 1: a daily deadline and working at that sort of volume.
Speaker 1: But I think the one character I always think about
Speaker 1: is the little red haired girl who goes unnamed, And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, that's the one that Charlie Brown always had
Speaker 1: that huge crush on. She was apparently based on Schultz's
Speaker 1: girlfriend in the late forties, this redhead named Donna Mae Johnson,
Speaker 1: and after the war, the two of them worked together
Speaker 1: at this correspondent school in Minneapolis, and after a few
Speaker 1: years of dating, Sills finally worked at the nerve of
Speaker 1: to propose to her, but then Dona May turned him
Speaker 1: down and married a different guy a few months later,
Speaker 1: and it was obviously this huge blow to his Pride,
Speaker 1: But in the end, the ordeal actually inspired one of
Speaker 1: Schultz's most famous characters, and supposedly he and Donna May
Speaker 1: remained friends for years later. I mean, there are some
Speaker 1: definite shades of Charlie Brown to that story, and you
Speaker 1: can see that throughout his work. Yeah, definitely, And it
Speaker 1: makes sense because both Charlie Brown and Snoopy they're often
Speaker 1: considered stand ins for Schultz himself. In fact, Charles's son,
Speaker 1: Craig Schultz once said about him, each of the characters
Speaker 1: represents a piece of our dad. Charlie Brown was his
Speaker 1: real self and Snoopy was what he wanted to be,
Speaker 1: which is kind of funny to think about, but it
Speaker 1: makes sense, and it said both characters also had real
Speaker 1: world counterparts too. Charlie Brown was actually the name of
Speaker 1: a friend that Charles worked with prior to creating Peanuts,
Speaker 1: and Snoopy was based on charles His own childhood dog,
Speaker 1: This English Pointer, not a beagle who was named Spike
Speaker 1: and whose name would later be used for one of
Speaker 1: Snoopy's brothers. So if Schultz had a dog named Spike,
Speaker 1: then where's the name Snoopy come from? Well, apparently Charles
Speaker 1: had originally planned to call his dog Sniffy, but then
Speaker 1: he found out that another comic featured a dog with
Speaker 1: the same name, so he had to change it to
Speaker 1: something else. But luckily he had this backup. You know,
Speaker 1: when he was a kid, his mother suggested if they
Speaker 1: ever got another dog, they should name him Snoopy, and
Speaker 1: so that's where the name came from. Anyway, back back
Speaker 1: to the real world Snoopy for a second. It's pretty
Speaker 1: striking how devoted to his dog Charles was, just like
Speaker 1: Charlie Brown would later be with Snoopy. So how how
Speaker 1: do you mean? Well, the very first drawing that Charles
Speaker 1: ever published was of his dog Spike. So Charles was
Speaker 1: just fifteen years old at the time when he submitted
Speaker 1: this drawing and actually a fact along with it to
Speaker 1: Ripley's Believe it or Not, and it got published nationally.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's pretty cool. But what was so unbolouivable
Speaker 1: about Spike that got him published in Ripley's. Well, the
Speaker 1: drawings caption said that Spike was quote a hunting dog
Speaker 1: that eats pin tax and razor blades, so he didn't
Speaker 1: exactly have Snoopy's refined palette, but it does sound like
Speaker 1: Spike shared his taste for adventure. There was this article
Speaker 1: and mental Flaws about this that was talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: the dog would make a break for freedom anytime the
Speaker 1: door was open and only come back because he loved
Speaker 1: going on car ride. So whenever Spike got loose, Charles
Speaker 1: would run to his dad's car and basically just honked
Speaker 1: the horn as a way to lure the dog back.
Speaker 1: I mean, we we actually had a dog like that
Speaker 1: growing up. She'd run off for the only way to
Speaker 1: get her back was to unwrap a slice of American exactly.
Speaker 1: That's what always works. Yeah, I mean, it's so weird that,
Speaker 1: like that plastic peel sound like when it was coming
Speaker 1: off the craft slices. That's what would make her race
Speaker 1: back to the house. But you know, having a dog
Speaker 1: you keep losing sounds very Charlie Brown to me as well.
Speaker 1: And and uh, speaking of which, some of my favorite
Speaker 1: Peanuts facts are the ones that overlap between Charlie Brown's
Speaker 1: childhood and Charles Schultze's. Like there's a surface level stuff,
Speaker 1: but both of them had fathers who were barbers. But
Speaker 1: but then they're also those like wonderfully tragic tidbits from
Speaker 1: Schultza's life. That feels so Charlie Brown. Like his dad
Speaker 1: used to give him haircuts, but when customers came in,
Speaker 1: he'd have to hop out of the chair, so you
Speaker 1: just have to grump around and wander about with half
Speaker 1: a haircut until his dad that finished it up, which
Speaker 1: does sound so very Charlie Brown. It's pretty great, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. And there was actually one time when Shultston
Speaker 1: line at a movie theater because they were handing out
Speaker 1: candy bars to the first kids to buy tickets that day,
Speaker 1: and of course Schultz was the hundred first kid in line,
Speaker 1: you know. And when when he was in high school,
Speaker 1: Schultz's teacher convince him to draw some comics for his
Speaker 1: senior year book. And so Schultz, of course, being super
Speaker 1: timid and socially awkward, he's a little nervous, but he
Speaker 1: desperately wants to be a cartoonist, so he overcomes a
Speaker 1: shyness he submits artwork, and then when the yearbook comes out,
Speaker 1: of course everyone had forgotten to include his work, Like
Speaker 1: not a single one of his cartoons got used. That's
Speaker 1: a tough break. So, you know, it is interesting to
Speaker 1: see that that not every aspect of Peanuts is drawn
Speaker 1: from Schultza's own experience. You know, if you take the
Speaker 1: character Franklin, for instance, he was introduced as the comic
Speaker 1: strips first black character. And now this was in July
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty eight, and this was just a few
Speaker 1: months after the assassination of M. L. K Jr. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing that that's fifty years ago this year. And
Speaker 1: and uh and this was based on a reader's suggestion, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. The reader was a mother of three named
Speaker 1: Harriett Glickman, and she wrote to Schultz just a few
Speaker 1: days after the death of Martin Luther King. And now,
Speaker 1: in that note, the Glickman noted the power that mass
Speaker 1: media has to shape what she called the unconscious attitudes
Speaker 1: of our kids. So she has Schultz to add one
Speaker 1: or more black characters to his strips. And this was
Speaker 1: so that children could see that respect and friendship was
Speaker 1: possible between people of all races. And Schultz was pretty
Speaker 1: moved by the idea, but he didn't add the character immediately.
Speaker 1: He was actually a little bit nervous that the move
Speaker 1: might seem to be patronizing to black readers. But as
Speaker 1: Glickman continued, to correspond with him. Over the course of
Speaker 1: several months, you know, he decided to change his mind
Speaker 1: on this, and on July one he wrote to say
Speaker 1: that Glickman should watch for the new character to appear
Speaker 1: by the end of the month, which of course he did.
Speaker 1: And so does show suffer any blowback from from this
Speaker 1: when when when the stroke comes out, Well, you know,
Speaker 1: you had some black readers that did argue that Franklin
Speaker 1: was a bland character and therefore somewhat patronizing, but in
Speaker 1: general readers appreciated the added representation as well as you
Speaker 1: know how kind and worry free Franklin was compared with
Speaker 1: other Peanuts kids. But it still it was undoubtedly a
Speaker 1: tense time for America for an artist to debut what
Speaker 1: was essentially the first minority character in a mainstream comic strip.
Speaker 1: But other than this brief exchange where Franklin mentions that
Speaker 1: his father was a soldier in Vietnam, there's really nothing
Speaker 1: overtly political about his inclusion. Like Charlie Brown loses his
Speaker 1: beach ball, only to have it found and returned to
Speaker 1: him by a boy named Franklin, and then the boys
Speaker 1: decided to build a sandcastle together, which is, of course
Speaker 1: very sweet. Yeah, but they're definitely only a bit of
Speaker 1: backlash from this. You had several newspaper editors from Southern
Speaker 1: states that wrote to Schultz demanding that he stopped using
Speaker 1: the character, or at the very least that he always
Speaker 1: showing Franklin in school with the other white characters, which
Speaker 1: is just mind boggling to think about. But his response
Speaker 1: was pretty straightforward. So here's what he told an interviewer
Speaker 1: years later about the incident. I never paid any attention
Speaker 1: to those things. And I remember telling United Features President
Speaker 1: Larry Rutman at the time about Franklin. He wanted me
Speaker 1: to change it, and we talked about it for a
Speaker 1: long while on the phone, and I finally sighed and
Speaker 1: I said, well, Larry, let's put it this way. Either
Speaker 1: you print it just the way I draw it, or
Speaker 1: I quit. How's that. So that's the way it ended.
Speaker 1: I mean, that is so awesome and it's nice to
Speaker 1: hear that. Like, despite whatever reservations he might have had
Speaker 1: at the beginning, Schultz ultimately went to bat for Franklin
Speaker 1: in this really big way. Yeah, And you know, I
Speaker 1: know we wanted to talk about an earlier occasion when
Speaker 1: Schultz butted heads with upper management, and this time about
Speaker 1: what the strip should be. All But before we get
Speaker 1: into that, let's take a quick break. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Part Time Genius and we're talking about cartoonists Charles Schultz
Speaker 1: and his beloved Peanuts comic strips. So, you know, to
Speaker 1: be clear, there was one thing that she definitely did
Speaker 1: not love about his own strip, and that was the title.
Speaker 1: So back in when he first pitched the strip to
Speaker 1: be carried by the United Feature Syndicate, Schultz insisted the
Speaker 1: title should be Little Folks, which maybe wasn't the most
Speaker 1: creative title, but it does seem, i don't know, somewhat
Speaker 1: fitting if you think about how so many of his
Speaker 1: characters they read like these little kids with grown up
Speaker 1: type worries, and like they're plagued by this level of
Speaker 1: anxiety and almost neurosis that's typically reserved, you know, for adults. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but whether it's fitting or not, the executives had this
Speaker 1: different problem with it. So there was already a strip
Speaker 1: called Little Folks, except with the word little all spelled
Speaker 1: out instead of little like, and then there was also
Speaker 1: a little abner the comic strip. So they're worried that
Speaker 1: readers might confuse the titles, or worse, that the creators
Speaker 1: of the rival strips might sue them for copyright infringement.
Speaker 1: So instead, the production manager at the syndicate decided to
Speaker 1: call the strip Peanuts. And I guess this was a
Speaker 1: reference to the Howdy Duty show that was pretty popular
Speaker 1: at the time. When kids came to tapings, they sat
Speaker 1: in the Peanut Gallery. So the production manager thought, you know,
Speaker 1: like he'd riff off that idea and just called the
Speaker 1: small Kids Peanuts. I do like that their solution to
Speaker 1: not being sued was to rip off a TV show instead,
Speaker 1: but either, I know, I mean, the other theory is
Speaker 1: that they just thought Little Folks was a weak title,
Speaker 1: but they didn't want to upset shuts Um, not that
Speaker 1: he wasn't upset anyway. In the interview, he was still
Speaker 1: angry about the Peanuts title, and he said, quote, it's
Speaker 1: totally ridiculous, has no meaning, is simply confusing, and has
Speaker 1: no dignity. And I think my humor has dignity, which
Speaker 1: is sad you never got to change the name. But
Speaker 1: you know, of course, once the strip took off, he
Speaker 1: was kind of stuck with the title. And uh, what's
Speaker 1: funny to me is that Schultz actually avoided using the
Speaker 1: title himself, Like he claimed that whenever someone asked him
Speaker 1: what he did for a living, you just tell them
Speaker 1: I draw that comic strip with Snoopy in it, Charlie
Speaker 1: Brown and his daughter. Well, whatever you call it, there's
Speaker 1: no question that Schultz's comic was a runaway hit once
Speaker 1: the strip gained a little bit of steam, So it
Speaker 1: was published in just seven US newspapers when it debuted
Speaker 1: back in October of nineteen fifty. Well, by the end
Speaker 1: of its fifty year run and two thousand, the comic
Speaker 1: was being translated in over twenty different languages, published in
Speaker 1: seventy five different countries, and had grown its global readership
Speaker 1: to a staggering three hundred and fifty five million people.
Speaker 1: So in total, over fifteen thousand daily strips and Sunday
Speaker 1: strips were produced, all written, inked, and lettered by Charles
Speaker 1: Schultz himself. I mean, it was this unprecedented run, and
Speaker 1: actually so unprecedented that the media scholar Robert Thompson once
Speaker 1: called the fifty year story of Charlie Brown and his
Speaker 1: Pals arguably the longest told story by a single artist
Speaker 1: in human history. I mean, that's really incredible to think about.
Speaker 1: So what do you think made it click with people
Speaker 1: for such a long time. Well, I think a big
Speaker 1: part of it goes back to something that we mentioned
Speaker 1: at the top of the show, which is the way
Speaker 1: this trip really found this middle ground in terms of tone.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was funny and sometimes sweet, but there
Speaker 1: was always kind of this prickly, world weary feeling underlying
Speaker 1: the humor there. And you know, as it turns out,
Speaker 1: this was all by design. So Schultz believed that happiness
Speaker 1: and humor didn't really mix, which is of course why
Speaker 1: Charlie Brown never does get to kick that football and
Speaker 1: he shouts. Also dealt with bounts of depression in his
Speaker 1: own life, and one way he found relief was by
Speaker 1: channeling his anxieties directly into his art, which makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense, And the result is a strip with
Speaker 1: a somewhat despairing world view and and one where as
Speaker 1: Schultz once explained, here's what he said about He said,
Speaker 1: all the loves are unrequited, all the baseball games are lost,
Speaker 1: all the test scores are d minuses, the Great Pumpkin
Speaker 1: never comes, and the football is always pulled away, like
Speaker 1: when he described like that, hopefully it really does. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny that Shills like completely stuck to that formula
Speaker 1: for the strip's entire run. So I guess things did
Speaker 1: get a little cheerier in the mid to late sixties
Speaker 1: once the TV specials started, like and and uh, all
Speaker 1: that merchandizing really kicked into high gear. I've actually heard
Speaker 1: that most fans used the rise of Snoopy and pop
Speaker 1: culture is kind of a turning point in the strips run.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, there's this first decade or so
Speaker 1: where Snoopy is more or less this normal dog in
Speaker 1: the strip. He he walks on four legs, He he
Speaker 1: doesn't communicate through thought balloons, and he doesn't even have
Speaker 1: a clear owner in the strips like much less this
Speaker 1: tricked out doghouse. And weirdly, this is also the period
Speaker 1: where the human characters were or what the creator of
Speaker 1: Little Abner called good, mean little bastards eager to hurt
Speaker 1: one another. But as the sixties donned, Schultz began to
Speaker 1: capitalize on his creation with licensing deals and product hie ins,
Speaker 1: which caused that public perception of Peanuts to shift and
Speaker 1: suddenly the characters were seen as much sweeter and kinder
Speaker 1: than the strips had ever really been. And while the
Speaker 1: newer strips never really lost their edge completely and Charlie
Speaker 1: Brown remained the world's you know, punching bag, Snoopy did
Speaker 1: begin to take on more and more of the limelight,
Speaker 1: and as this happened, the character became less and less
Speaker 1: like a real dog. By the late sixties, Snoopy was
Speaker 1: walking on two legs, he was composing love letters with
Speaker 1: a typewriter in his doghouse. He was also spending a
Speaker 1: lot less time around the human characters, and instead he
Speaker 1: was either hanging out with his new animal friends like Woodstock,
Speaker 1: or he was off by himself, sort of waging these
Speaker 1: imaginary wars against the villainous Red Baron. But you know,
Speaker 1: in other words, things took a much zanier turn, and
Speaker 1: lots of Peanuts fans kind of think of that as
Speaker 1: when the strip kind of jumped the shark. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Some people must have liked these changes, though, right because
Speaker 1: Snoopy never became a normal dog again, So it feels
Speaker 1: like something must have been working. Yeah, I mean so,
Speaker 1: some readers thought the new Snoopy was a breath of
Speaker 1: fresh air, especially in contrast to how bleak the kids
Speaker 1: could be sometimes. And and that really does make sense
Speaker 1: when you think about how the other character has never
Speaker 1: really react to Snoopy's changes. Um, you know, he suddenly
Speaker 1: has this whole inner world that's generally much more positive
Speaker 1: and upbeat than that of the kids, But they still
Speaker 1: kind of just treat him like a regular dog. Which
Speaker 1: is interesting because I wonder what such a sharp turn
Speaker 1: and characterization says about what was going on, you know,
Speaker 1: for Schultz at the time, like in his own life.
Speaker 1: And you know, I've got this new freewheeling Snoopy who
Speaker 1: was supposedly the person or the character. I guess that
Speaker 1: Schultz always wanted to be, you know, somebody who was
Speaker 1: adventurous and care free instead of being bogged down by
Speaker 1: doubt and worry all the time. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: you think about this time in his life and maybe
Speaker 1: by the sixties and seventies, you know, all his fame
Speaker 1: and fortune that Schultz finally made made him feel like
Speaker 1: that kind of person. I guess if he was happier
Speaker 1: in his personal life, it would make sense that he
Speaker 1: might want to revel in that feeling and focus more
Speaker 1: on Snoopy. Yeah, I think there's probably some truth to that.
Speaker 1: But from many fans perspectives, the new Snoopy and by extension,
Speaker 1: the new Schultz were nothing to celebrate. They saw the slicker,
Speaker 1: flashy air Snoopy as kind of like hard proof that Schultz,
Speaker 1: who is now this millionaire cartoonist, had kind of lost
Speaker 1: touch with those insecurities that it made Charlie Brown so
Speaker 1: relatable in the first place. So The Atlantic actually did
Speaker 1: an article on this, and they subbed up the feeling
Speaker 1: this way quote. There was something fundamentally rotten about the
Speaker 1: new Snoopy, whose charm was based on his total lack
Speaker 1: of concern about what others thought of him. His confidence,
Speaker 1: his breezy sense that the world may be falling apart,
Speaker 1: but one can still dance on was worse than irritating.
Speaker 1: It was morally bankrupt. Two legged Snoopy with his airs
Speaker 1: and fantasies, peerless Snoopy, rich Snoopy, popular Snoopy, world famous, Snoopy,
Speaker 1: contented Snoopy that spoiled everything good Lord, I mean, like
Speaker 1: so overthought on the one hand, but I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess I get what they're saying, but it still feels
Speaker 1: pretty harsh to pin all of that on Snoopy. And
Speaker 1: when you think about the strips where Snoopy's imagining all
Speaker 1: of these wild and kind of high flying adventures, they
Speaker 1: usually end with a reality bursting his bubble in some way,
Speaker 1: and like all of a sudden, Snoopy feels cold, so
Speaker 1: we're back on top of his doghouse and sharing the
Speaker 1: desert or wherever. But I don't know, things like that
Speaker 1: always made me feel like Snoopy's flights of fancy were
Speaker 1: there were really just another coping mechanism for how tough
Speaker 1: life can be. Where that was like Linus's blanket or
Speaker 1: Lucy's hot temper. But I don't know, that just seems
Speaker 1: like such a harsh reaction. And you think about this,
Speaker 1: Snoopy would talk a good game, but at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, he's just a pop So I don't know,
Speaker 1: to me, there's something endearing about that. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I agree with that, and I think Schultz would as well.
Speaker 1: Was being interviewed on the Tonight Show just as he
Speaker 1: was announcing his retirement, and he observed that quote, Snoopy
Speaker 1: likes to think that he's this independent dog who does
Speaker 1: all these things and leads his own life, but he
Speaker 1: always makes sure that he never gets too far from
Speaker 1: the suffer dish. All right, Well, now that we've talked
Speaker 1: a little more about the unique tone and mood of
Speaker 1: the Peanut strips, what do you say we take a
Speaker 1: look at how that translated into all those TV specials
Speaker 1: and definitely, but first let's take a quick break. Okay, Mango,
Speaker 1: So we established earlier that you didn't exactly do your
Speaker 1: homework by watching ninety six. Is It's Arbor Day Charlie Brown?
Speaker 1: So I guess we'll have to talk about that in
Speaker 1: a later episode, maybe a dedicated episode just to that.
Speaker 1: But it's actually not the only unusual title. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's some other chestnuts in the mix, like someday you'll
Speaker 1: find her Charlie Brown, which sounds a little bleak, and
Speaker 1: my personal favorite, why Charlie Brown? Why? Why? Indeed? That's
Speaker 1: that's a crazy title. Well, I think because money, Mango.
Speaker 1: I mean, the first Peanuts special was such a giant
Speaker 1: ratings hit for CBS that the network immediately commissioned four
Speaker 1: more specials and obviously many more to follow that, which
Speaker 1: is fair enough, but I think for everyone's sake, whould
Speaker 1: probably just stick to a special that people have actually seen. So,
Speaker 1: but why don't we talk a little bit about the
Speaker 1: one that people will be watching for the million time
Speaker 1: in the next few weeks, which is Charlie Brown Christmas.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. So what do you want to say
Speaker 1: first about it? Well, how about the fact that nobody
Speaker 1: involved in the special thought it was actually going to work.
Speaker 1: And it's actually hard to imagine this now, but you know, um,
Speaker 1: there were a lot of factors working against it while
Speaker 1: it was in production, and a lot of those actually
Speaker 1: stemmed from controversial choices that Schultz himself insisted on, like
Speaker 1: what so for starters, Schultz insisted that the Peanuts kids
Speaker 1: be voiced by real children, and this meant the crew
Speaker 1: would be working with mostly non professionals, many of whom
Speaker 1: were too young to memorize their lines or even to
Speaker 1: read in some cases, so most of the child actors
Speaker 1: had to have their lines fed to them a few
Speaker 1: words at a time. It was all done by that
Speaker 1: long suffering director and the voice of Snoopy, Bill Melendez.
Speaker 1: I mean, just hearing that it does make me realize
Speaker 1: that in the specials the voices do sound a little choppy.
Speaker 1: Like the way kids talk isn't exactly seamless. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of rhythm to the senses, and
Speaker 1: if you listen close enough, you can actually hear the
Speaker 1: scenes between the words where like different parts of the
Speaker 1: line we're stitched together and post But these untrained actors
Speaker 1: were just the first of many notes that ended up
Speaker 1: jeopardizing the project, and these were all coming from Schultz.
Speaker 1: So another shake up came when Schultz refused to let
Speaker 1: the network use the laugh track to I guess kind
Speaker 1: of cue the viewers on the jokes, which is so
Speaker 1: strange because it is hard to imagine it now with
Speaker 1: a laugh track. Yeah, but I guess laugh tracks were
Speaker 1: common practice at the time, even in cartoons like uh,
Speaker 1: you know, The Flintstones obviously relied on rue and I
Speaker 1: think the Jetsons too. But but when Lee Mendelssohn mentioned
Speaker 1: the idea to Schultz, the the artist simply got up
Speaker 1: and left the room, And then a few minutes later
Speaker 1: Shultz came back and carried on the conversation as if
Speaker 1: nothing had happened, which does sound a little bit like
Speaker 1: a George Costanza tactic. You know, it's pretty funny, Yeah, totally,
Speaker 1: and I guess Mendelssohn read between the lines on that
Speaker 1: and never brought up the laugh track again. Wow, what
Speaker 1: about some of the heavier stuff in the special, like
Speaker 1: the commercialization of Christmas and that seeing where Linus reads
Speaker 1: from the Bible like with Shultz behind those kinds of
Speaker 1: decisions too, Yeah, definitely, it was really important to him
Speaker 1: that the special explorer what he called the true meaning
Speaker 1: of Christmas, which is why Linus reads the story of
Speaker 1: Jesus's birth straight from the Gospel of Luke. And this
Speaker 1: was a super risky move at the time because, according
Speaker 1: to The Atlantic, less than nine percent of Christmas episodes
Speaker 1: and specials from the era contain any religious references of
Speaker 1: any kind, much less direct quotes from scripture. So surprisingly,
Speaker 1: CBS didn't object to this inclusion, and neither did Coca Cola,
Speaker 1: who was the special sponsor. Um The producer, though, was
Speaker 1: super nervous, and he told shots that no anime character
Speaker 1: had ever read from the Bible before, which was all
Speaker 1: the more reason to Schultz, and he told Mendelssohn, well,
Speaker 1: if we don't do it, who will, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess that's true, but that was still a pretty big
Speaker 1: gamble at the time. I mean, CBS and Coke must
Speaker 1: have really liked what they saw if they let the
Speaker 1: reference pass without you know, much more scrutiny. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean you'd think so. But this executive from Coke's ad
Speaker 1: agency actually visited the crew halfway through production and he
Speaker 1: said the special was shaping up to be a total disaster.
Speaker 1: And and CBS thought the same thing when they screened
Speaker 1: like this early cut of it just a few weeks
Speaker 1: before the premiere. They said there was two little action
Speaker 1: that the whole thing moved way too slowly, and not
Speaker 1: to mention the low energy voice acting and the jazzy soundtrack,
Speaker 1: which they just found grading for some reason. But Bill
Speaker 1: Melendez later said that the network would have scrapped the
Speaker 1: entire special except that they had made this commitment to
Speaker 1: Coke and it was kind of too late to back out.
Speaker 1: So the show went on as scheduled, and to everyone's shock,
Speaker 1: viewers just tuned in and droves. Like I want to say, um,
Speaker 1: half of all American households with the TV tuned in
Speaker 1: to watch the specials that night, which was apparently fifteen
Speaker 1: million people at the time. And a few months later,
Speaker 1: Charles Schultz and Lee Medelssohn were on stage at the
Speaker 1: Emmy's actually accepting the award for Outstanding Children's Program. It
Speaker 1: was the surprise hit that no one had seen coming,
Speaker 1: and that included Charles Schultz himself. He later told TV
Speaker 1: Guide in the continued success of the special has surprised
Speaker 1: me as much as anyone. A lot of the drawings
Speaker 1: are terrible, and of course those terrible drawings are based
Speaker 1: on his own designs. Yeah, I guess we shouldn't be
Speaker 1: too surprised that Schultz would, you know, take this class
Speaker 1: half empty approach when judging work. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: for all the fanciful touches in his stories like kite
Speaker 1: eating trees and Canaan fighter pilots, you know, Peanuts is
Speaker 1: really a strip about simple truths. It's characters are vulnerable,
Speaker 1: just like the creator and all of us, really, and
Speaker 1: and there's no grand finale or cathartic resolution to the stories,
Speaker 1: and that's probably what makes the strips, you know, ring
Speaker 1: so true to us. Yeah, you know, I've actually been
Speaker 1: thinking a lot this week about a quote that Schultz
Speaker 1: gave in an interview, and it was actually with Penthouse,
Speaker 1: of all places. But he was talking about how much
Speaker 1: of his own life is wrapped up in the strip
Speaker 1: and what he hoped to accomplish with it, and and
Speaker 1: here's what he had to say about it. Of course,
Speaker 1: I could grind out daily gags, but I'm not interested
Speaker 1: in simply doing gags. I'm interested in doing a strip
Speaker 1: that says something and make some comment on the important
Speaker 1: things of life. And I really think that Mantra bleeds
Speaker 1: through in every single one of his strips, and they
Speaker 1: show us that life has made up of both small,
Speaker 1: hard won triumphs and these bitterly felt disappointments, and not
Speaker 1: always an equal measure either. But you know, the important
Speaker 1: thing is to pick yourself up and never stop trying.
Speaker 1: And you know Charles Schultz understood that. And I feel like,
Speaker 1: thanks to his work, lots of other people, including us,
Speaker 1: due to definitely. But you know, before we dive into
Speaker 1: this delicious feast of buttered toast and jelly beans that
Speaker 1: Tristan has prepared for us, but what do you say
Speaker 1: we sneak in a quick fact off. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I can hold off, but let's try. So. Did
Speaker 1: you know that NASA gives out an award every year
Speaker 1: called the Silver Snoopy. It's actually a silver pin, and
Speaker 1: instead of going to astronauts, it actually is the astronauts
Speaker 1: who give the awards to the staff and the researchers
Speaker 1: that helped support them. So this program started in the sixties,
Speaker 1: and you're probably wondering why Snoopy. Well, at the time,
Speaker 1: NASA had just suffered the disaster with the Apollo one
Speaker 1: mission and they were looking for something uplifting that people
Speaker 1: could really get behind, and there was nothing bigger than
Speaker 1: Snoopy at the time. So today the pins go for
Speaker 1: about a thousand dollars on eBay, and NASA claims every
Speaker 1: pen goes to space and comes back before it's handed out. Oh,
Speaker 1: I really like that. So you know, when when Charles
Speaker 1: Schultz moved away from Minnesota as an adult, he he
Speaker 1: never actually gave up his love of ice hockey. So
Speaker 1: when one ice skating rink that was close to his
Speaker 1: home in California closed in the sixties, he actually had
Speaker 1: one built, and according to mental Flass, he loved the
Speaker 1: Swiss alpine themed arena so much that he ate both
Speaker 1: breakfast and lunch there every day at its warm puppy
Speaker 1: snack bar, and he also used to play pickup games
Speaker 1: every week with his son's I guess on Tuesday nights,
Speaker 1: which is kind of fun. Well, apparently the Charlie Brown
Speaker 1: Halloween Special had a huge impact on kids, and particularly
Speaker 1: the scene where Charlie Brown opens his Halloween bag and
Speaker 1: finds that he's just got a bunch of rocks instead
Speaker 1: of candy. So kids, this was so unfair that for
Speaker 1: years they would try to share their treats with him,
Speaker 1: and so they would send bags of candy to Charles
Speaker 1: Schultz's office care of Charlie Brown. So here's the super
Speaker 1: weird one about musician Vince Guilty, who did all that
Speaker 1: jazzy music for the specials. Apparently, one night, while he
Speaker 1: was composing music for the Halloween Special, he decided to
Speaker 1: take a shower, but when he heard a noise outside,
Speaker 1: he ran down to see what it was, and somehow
Speaker 1: he locked himself out of his house in the process,
Speaker 1: completely naked. I don't know why he didn't have a
Speaker 1: towel with him, but the only way to get back
Speaker 1: into his house was to climb and break into his
Speaker 1: own house, and of course the neighbors called the cops
Speaker 1: on him. So apparently when the police came up to
Speaker 1: this naked man breaking into his own house and asked
Speaker 1: him to identify himself. He did keep his sense of
Speaker 1: humor and he said, don't shoot, I'm the Great Pumpkin
Speaker 1: of course. All right, well, here's a super quick fact
Speaker 1: about the trouble with working with kid actors. So during
Speaker 1: the taping of the Christmas Special, there was a child
Speaker 1: actress who portrayed both Violet and Freedom, and she would
Speaker 1: get so nervous before reading each time that after she
Speaker 1: was done recording, every single time, she would throw up. Now,
Speaker 1: luckily she didn't have that big of a role kidd actors. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: here's the one that's kind of heartwarming. Uh So, so
Speaker 1: we all know that Lucy loves to pull that football
Speaker 1: away from Charlie Brown just as he's about to kick it,
Speaker 1: and often she says mean things right before or after,
Speaker 1: like uh friendly, she'll ask him don't you trust anyone
Speaker 1: anymore for putting the football out? Or she'll let him
Speaker 1: know after she's pulled it away that don't you know
Speaker 1: a woman's handshake isn't binding, which is a strange bit
Speaker 1: of legally's there. But you know that there was one
Speaker 1: moment where she let him kick the ball, and this
Speaker 1: was in nineteen seventy. As Slate reports, um there was
Speaker 1: actually a sequence where Charlie Brown gets very ill and
Speaker 1: when Lucy Here's that he's sick and might not come
Speaker 1: back from the hospital, she says how much he means
Speaker 1: to her and and then promises to let him kick
Speaker 1: the football if he gets better. And then when he
Speaker 1: does recover, she lives up to her promise and holds
Speaker 1: that ball out for him, but of course he slips
Speaker 1: and misses it. Anyway, well, it is nice to know
Speaker 1: that for once she gave him a chance and I
Speaker 1: like that fact. So I think you get to take
Speaker 1: home today's trophy. Thank you, Will, and thanks for all
Speaker 1: of you out there for tuning into another part time genius.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure you have wonderful Snoopy and Charlie
Speaker 1: Brown memories. So if you've got facts of stories, we
Speaker 1: definitely want to hear them. Or if you've got topics
Speaker 1: you want us to cover, we're actually looking for those two.
Speaker 1: So it just emails as part time genius at how
Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com or hit us up on the socials.
Speaker 1: But from gave Tristan Will and me, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for listening. Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius
Speaker 1: is a production of how stuff works and wouldn't be
Speaker 1: possible without several brilliant people who do the important things
Speaker 1: we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan McNeil does the
Speaker 1: editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song and does
Speaker 1: the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the exact
Speaker 1: producer thing. Gabe Louesier is our lead researcher, with support
Speaker 1: from the research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and
Speaker 1: Lucas Adams and Eves Jeff Cook gets the show to
Speaker 1: your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like what you heard,
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Speaker 1: for us. Did you? Did you forget Jason? Jason who