WEBVTT - The Future of TechStuff (Is So Bright, Karah Has to Wear Shades) 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:12.760 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.600 and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.799 I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts. And for the 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:22.680 last time from me, y'all, how the tech are you? Yes, 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.560 it is the Swan song. I'm bowing out, I'm done, 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:29.960 I'm tagging out, and I've been teasing it for more 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.000 than a month. Now it is time for us to 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.240 meet the intrepid hosts who are going to take tech 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.800 Stuff into the future and grow it to heights I 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:45.519 can only dream of. Welcome back, my friends, Oz Volishin 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.240 and Cara Price. Welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:50.440 Thank you so much, Johnthan, thank you so much for 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.000 having us back on, and thank you for passing the torch. 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.120 It's incredibly exciting. I'm not sure we'll scale heights that 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.480 you can barely dream of, but I hope we'll, you know, 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.840 do almost as good a job as you've done over 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:04.920 an incredible sixteen years. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:07.600 I think that's the kindest thing you could say to me, 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.560 considering how decorated the two of you are. For those 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:15.000 who are unfamiliar with our now hosts of tech Stuff, 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.200 Oz and Kara you both have have storied backgrounds in 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.119 producing for television. I mean there's we talk about things 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:28.480 like documentaries. Uh, there's a little book club that Merritt's mentioned. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.839 I mean it's pretty phenomenal, like you've achieved so much, 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.520 so I don't think it's false modesty for me to 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:42.160 say I have great expectations Dickensian great expect Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.160 I got I got an English lit background. We can 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.360 throw down if you like, but uh, yeah no, it's 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.160 it is Dickensian in nature. Yes, I am a little 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.840 street rat here, just pleased to see that the show 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.320 that I have fostered for the better part of two 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.600 decades is going to a good home. So I have 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.320 a lot to thank you or for that. That's I'm 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.280 really excited. I can't wait. I'm going to be a 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:04.880 big fan of the show. It's will be a nice 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:06.680 change of pace because currently. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.320 Trust us, you don't like listening to yourself? 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:11.960 Oh do you like listening to yourself? 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.000 Kara, Absolutely, I'm I'm glad you'll enjoy the show. 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.760 Yeah, no, that's I mean, I think anyone who has 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.360 done any podcasting like when you get to that stage, 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:22.680 especially if you're doing your own editing or QA work. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.160 It's something you dread because you're just like, oh no, 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.079 can I just read a transcript please? I don't need 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.880 to hear me at least that's how I am. So 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:35.880 I'm really excited to talk about your vision for tech 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.000 stuff and where you're taking it in sort of the 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.480 what you're working with, you know, what's the format of 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.639 the show going to be like? And over the last 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:46.639 couple of weeks, we've been talking a lot on this 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.480 show about stuff in tech that's happened since we first launched, 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.720 and it's just kind of funny to see how much 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.600 has changed in the time that, you know, from June 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.200 two thousand and eight when we started to now. So 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.560 the big example I give is, did you know in 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.080 June two thousand and eight when we started, iTunes had 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.040 not opened an app store yet, so there were no 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.200 apps other than the once preloaded up. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.320 What was I doing on iTunes? I guess I was 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:12.800 just listening to music on iTunes. 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.360 You could listen to podcasts, but there were no other apps, like, 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.720 other than the stuff that Apple already preloaded. And but 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.320 then even then, like it would take a couple of 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.520 years for Apple to really change the world by introducing 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.680 Apple maps and guiding everybody to drive into rivers and stuff. 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:31.679 Yeah, I was. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.880 I was listening to your Thanksgiving episode and it's crazy 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.800 now with like data analytics and like immediate you know, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.560 user feedback, And am I right in remembering that when 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.400 you launched tech stuff, you didn't even know if anyone 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:46.760 at all was listening to it. 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.640 That's true. Yeah, I'm sure that the producers had access. 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.240 I don't even remember what the We've been through so 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.880 many different publication platforms. I can't even tell you what 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:57.760 it was back in the day. So I'm sure that 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.680 they had access to analytics, but the show creators, as 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.080 far as I know, were largely unaware unless it was 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:06.760 one of those things that just would make the trades, right, 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:10.560 so stuff, you should know. It was an incredible success 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:14.120 nearly right out of the gate, because Chuck and Josh 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.960 are fantastic. They do such a great job and have 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.120 since they started, And so that we knew because like 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.200 that would get up there on the top iTunes podcast 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.400 charts all the time. But beyond that, yeah, you know, 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.320 you record a show, publish it, and it was like 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.839 shouting into the void and wondering if anyone could hear you. Yeah, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:34.359 so exciting stuff. 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.000 We were planned to do two episodes a week, I think. 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.800 I mean, it seems like your height, you've done like 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.760 four or five episodes a week, So we were starting 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.560 with a level of humility about I mean, your output, 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:50.720 Jonathan is insane. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:51.279 Particular. 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:52.560 I know there have been times when you had a 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:54.719 co host and like, yeah, times when you've had guests, 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:58.839 but I just I can't believe how much stuff you've covered. 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:02.200 It was a lot. Yeah, yeah, I talked about this 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.640 on the show, so I'm not shy about talking about 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:08.279 it now. But up until just the beginning of twenty 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.000 twenty four, I was doing really four new episodes a 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.520 week and then one rerun typically right unbelievable, And each 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:18.560 episode usually meant that I was spending around eight hours 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:20.880 of researching and writing before I even wrote record, So 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.000 you're talking about, you know, thirty two hours of research 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:28.440 and writing for around four hours of audio than the reruns, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.599 and then I would the rest of what little time 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.160 I had would deal with other stuff. But I found 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:37.280 the secret to dealing with that workload is to have 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.039 a near stroke and be hospitalized and then suddenly you 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:44.400 have to change. So I've joked about it, but really 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.600 that is what told me that I had to make 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.159 a change, and so we scaled back to three those 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.080 three new episodes. I didn't do very many reruns this year, 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.280 unless say or this past year. Keep saying this year, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.440 because twenty twenty five doesn't seem real to me yet. 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.080 But uh yeah, I think two is a great play 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.880 to really create a foundation, and if you ever build 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.080 on that, that's fine. But I think two is actually 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.040 the sweet spot personally. It was one of those things 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.720 in Tech Stuff where we were performing really well, and 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.800 so there was always this desire to add to inventory. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.400 Right, I like, by the way, and you well you 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.600 did the kind of history of Tech Stuff episode kind 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.880 of explaining the mechanics of how the ad business change 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.480 and the host red ads and the insertions and stuff. 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.200 But yes, I mean obviously like inventory is a key 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:34.000 sort of driver of the viability of podcasts, right. 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.080 Right, Yeah, And I think transparency with your listeners is 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.359 always a good thing, Like you can feel icky to 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.480 talk about that sort of stuff, because you know, there's 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:43.240 I think of a friend of mine who was an 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.480 artistic director for a theater here in Atlanta, And I 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.800 was once talking to him about his job, and I said, 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.000 what's the toughest thing about your job? And he said, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.560 for me, the toughest thing is balancing art and commerce. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.120 Because the theater is a business, so you have to 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.920 treat it as a business, but it's also in the 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:07.360 business of fostering and delivering art to an audience. So 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.840 how do you find that balance where the two can 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.320 be in harmony and you can do both things well. 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.720 I think podcasting is very much the same, and that 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.160 you want to be able to say something that's worth hearing, right. 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.440 You don't want to just be like you don't want 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.840 to just be chattering nonsense into a microphone and then 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.280 pushing it out. You want it to have meaning and 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.800 for it to be of value. But at the same time, 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:30.720 you know, you got to keep the lights on. And 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.120 so there's a balance there, even for people who are 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:35.640 passionate about podcasts and they want to follow it as 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.600 a passion. If you're going to do it in a 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:39.840 way that it's self sustainable, you have to start making 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:41.760 these calls, and it's not always. 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:45.200 Easy, absolutely, And I think that because you're in people's ears. 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.320 I think there's an expectation for honesty, which is something 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.880 that you know, having listened to some episodes of yours 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.760 over the years, there's a certain level of just speaking 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.960 right to the listener. Yeah, and I think that's something 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.080 that we really like to adopt and that you've done 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:02.720 very well. 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.600 Yeah. So early on with podcasting, I was listening to 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.560 podcasts before I was making them. So I was one 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.640 of the few because I was because I was already 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.880 a geek before I even started working for house Stuff 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:17.360 Works way back in the day. So I was a 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.400 big fan of There was a show called buzz Out 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:20.560 Loud from ce. 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:24.160 Neet and oh my god, it still exists. 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.520 Yes, it still exists. Although the people that I listened 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.800 to all moved on to do other things like tom 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.240 Merritt is doing his own thing and Molly Wood she's 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:33.760 doing her own thing. But these were people who I 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.400 looked up to and I admired their work ethic and 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.760 I loved the output they were creating. And so when 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:41.320 it came time for me to be able to do 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.120 a podcast, I jumped on it because I had already 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.520 been a big fan of the form, and so one 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.800 of those things that drove me in the early years 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.120 and stuck with me through the entirety of it. And 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.400 part of the reason why is there's a sense of 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.040 intimacy because you're listening, you know, often with headphones on, 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.760 there's a real sense of intimacy between you and whomever's delivering, 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.559 whether it's a single host show or it's people, Like, 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.160 if it's a conversation, it feels like you're in the 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.600 room as that conversation is unfolding. And transparency and honesty 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:15.280 to me are absolutely necessary because in that intimate moment, 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.920 unless you're a really good social engineer slash liar, people 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.600 will pick up on insincerity or fibbing or anything you 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.800 want to call. And I've said over and over again 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:31.000 the biggest mistake I find some podcasters making is a 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.160 drastic underestimation of how smart their audience is. And I'm like, 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.320 especially when you talk about ads, like, we live in 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.920 a world inundated with ads. We've all experienced it, so 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:45.520 there's no way to tiptoe around ads where people aren't 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:46.600 going to be like, well, that. 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.640 Passes the smell test right totally. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:52.280 We're going to take a quick break to thank our 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.079 sponsors when we come back I'll talk more with our 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:59.080 future Tech Stuff hosts Oz and Kara, both about my 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.600 experiences int and where they planned to take the show next. 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:03.480 Stay tuned. 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:17.400 Karen and I have been friends for approaching ten years. Yes, 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.240 and we became I would say, much closer friends by 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.480 doing a podcast together Sleepwalker Sleepwalkers. Wish we were on 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:27.760 your show to talk about it. Yeah, this show five 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:28.280 years ago. 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:33.640 Yes, it's about AI. Y'all did amazing work, Like the 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.440 Sleepwalkers episodes are to this day very compelling. It's also 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:41.440 interesting to see where the conversation is an AI now 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:45.240 compared to when you were doing the show, because you know, 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.840 those conversations y'all were having. It was in days when 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.920 the mainstream public really, I mean we had all heard AI. 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:54.160 We had all heard about it. Maybe we had even 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.160 gone to see the Steven Spielberg stat slash Stanley Kubrick film, 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.800 but that was about the extent of it. And you 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.319 were getting into some of those conversations that now are 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.120 in mainstream news and are part of like, you know, 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:10.800 water cooler conversations because AI has become an inescapable topic 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:12.440 just in everyday life. 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.640 Yeah, we had the tagline for the show. You may 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.720 not care about AI, but AI cares about you. Now 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:20.840 now I think probably you care about AI as well, 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:21.160 but A. 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.480 Still cares about yea and more and more, more and more. 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:24.960 Yeah. 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.040 But one of my one of my favorite episodes of Sleepwalkers, actually, Jonathan, 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.679 just because you mentioned, you know, the personal and your 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.559 health problems, Cara, was actually the episode where we made 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.280 a fake copy of your voice to try and scam 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:38.240 your cousin. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.280 With Liarbird Aier. 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.520 Bird AI, which now has become Runway m L which 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.800 is a multi billion dollar company. But I mean, I 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.200 thought that that was both fun because we used your 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.560 voice to trick a family member and it kind of 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.680 spoke to that thing in podcasting about voice and authenticity 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.680 and all those things. But then you went on to 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.760 reflect about you know, losing your father and would you 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.720 want to interact with a digital version of him, which 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.000 again now is something which is part of the mainstream conversation. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.240 But I was very very moved by that piece of that. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.120 You well, and similar not to talk too much about 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:14.760 our show in the episodes, but for those who don't know, 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.079 you know, we also did an episode that focused more 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:21.520 on sort of health and AI healthcare, and I was 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.480 able to speak to a woman who was an engineer 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.960 who was also diagnosed with breast cancer. And this was 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.320 very early on in the conversation about you know, how 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:37.920 to train data sets on hundreds of thousands of mammograms, 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:42.040 for example, to then be able to recognize what does 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.320 breast cancer look like in a woman's breast, you know, 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.040 And these were things that at the time, I think 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.960 both Oz and I felt very much at the forefront 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.959 of that conversation, not because we're pioneers, but because these 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:59.000 are fairly new conversations unless you're working outside of you know, 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.720 engineering sci goals and data science programs, and so we're 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.920 really excited about, I think in terms of one of 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:06.880 the things we're really excited about in terms of taking 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:11.920 over this or having the baton passed to us digitally. 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:17.200 Taking it overt hostile takeover. He held a bunch of 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.240 zeros and ones to my throat and I no, no, 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:22.040 obviously no. 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.199 But I think one of the things we're really excited 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.160 about is that a lot of what we reported on 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:32.880 for Sleepwalkers is evergreen, and the difference now is actually 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:38.040 just how much faster processing has become and how the 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.199 rate of change is even faster than it was when 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.840 we were reporting, you know however many years ago, and 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:48.080 so in a certain sense, like the stories still remain 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.679 very human. I think it's like the capability of the 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.640 technology that keeps changing. And I think you, as someone 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.840 who has been doing this for so long, has probably 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.880 seen how the rate of change affects the rate of change, right, 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.439 I mean, sure, GPT is twenty twenty two. Right, Yeah, 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:08.080 that's like essentially post main COVID. It's so ubiquitous at 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.480 this point, like to think that that was three years 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.800 ago that like most people did not know what chat 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.640 GPT was. What a year and a half ago? Sure, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.440 or two years ago? So, I mean these are the 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.200 kinds of things that I think we find very exciting 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:28.200 as reporters, but also as you know, like you, I 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:33.600 think two nerds who are very interested in the ways 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:38.440 in which you know, technology intersects both personally and also culturally. 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:40.760 It seems to be very important because I think a 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:45.360 lot of people lay people whose most people don't know 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.640 how to dissect this information and don't want to be 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:50.800 told what to think, but they do want to be 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.520 told what to think about Yeah. 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.160 Absolutely, I mean like I have been famously rather rather 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.360 critical about a lot of AI implementations, not because of 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.080 the issues I have with the technology, but rather the 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.760 nature of those implementations in some pretty high profile cases, 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.400 like when you're using AI to do things like image 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:14.560 analysis and recognition for things like looking at mammograms to 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:19.960 increase the accuracy of diagnoses. I think that is brilliant. 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.360 I think that's wonderful. I think that's something that we 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.480 strive for. And it also is a reminder that you 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:26.960 can't paint all AI with the same brush. That AI 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:31.160 is an enormously broad spectrum of disciplines, and that we 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:35.800 often will reduce that down to chad GBT is stealing artists' 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.280 work and passing it off as their own. But the 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.080 stuff that tends to make the news tends to fall 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.560 on that second category. Like occasionally you'll get like a 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.480 nice optimistic story about how AI could make a positive impact, 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.320 but a lot of the stories tend to be on 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:53.240 the more critical side. So whether it's artists who are 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.800 worried about their work being used to train up the 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.080 next generation of the I and then put themselves out 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.280 of work in the process, or it's a boss of 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.800 a major tech company saying we're not going to fill 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.840 those two thousand positions, We're going to let Ai do it, 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:11.680 and I envision a future where HR is entirely Ai. Like, 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.240 those are tough stories to deliver in a way that 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:18.320 doesn't come across as somewhat dystopian in nature. So that's 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.200 why I've often said that tech Stuff's guiding principles have 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.000 always been critical thinking and compassion. You want to have 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.920 critical thinking, to ask the questions, to make sure that 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.240 you have a proper understanding of the story. You want 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.560 compassion not just for the people who are being impacted 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.560 by that story, but maybe the people who are making 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.160 the decisions, so that you can understand where they're coming from. 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.880 Because it's too easy to paint everything as this is 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.280 evil fat cat capitalist and they just do evil, fat 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:47.240 cat capitalist things because they are a two dimensional villain 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:52.040 from a vaudevillian production, and you're like, no, people are 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.200 a little more complicated that. Maybe not Elon Musk, but 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.960 everyone else is more complicated than that. 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:02.000 Well, so we actually ask Google Gemini how to how 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.439 to prepare for this? Prepared for this, and one of 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.000 the pieces of advice was to be clear with the 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.600 audience about what to expect going forward. So there's a 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.560 lot a lot of the advice was obviously, like very 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.280 was very cliche, but some of it was was relevant 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.359 as well. So you asked Jonathan, what kind of what 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.479 people can expect from the show going forward. We're going 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.240 to do two episodes a week. We're calling the Wednesday 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.920 episode the Story, and the idea is that it will 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:36.399 be a kind of evergreen interview with somebody conversation with 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.520 me and Kara. Then one or the other of us 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.359 will will kind of present an interview and then we'll 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.719 discuss it afterwards, but with somebody who either has an 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.800 incredible story about the intersection of technology and humanity and culture, 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.320 or who in some sense is kind of a builder of, 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.040 you know, the future. And so you mentioned just now 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.119 this how it's very hard not to be kind of, 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:02.240 you know, sound negative about in many cases. One of 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.840 the interviews we have that we've already done and which 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.199 we'll be publishing in the next few weeks is with 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:13.639 Meredith Whittaker and she as i'm sure you know, led 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:18.159 the protest movement at Google and the walkouts having to 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.800 do with Project Maven and the defense contracting and she 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.000 now runs Signal, the encrypted messaging app, which is obviously 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.320 really cool. And one of the things she said was, 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.440 you know, I often get criticized for being negative or pessimistic, 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.000 but actually I'm an optimist, and if I wasn't an optimist, 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.720 I wouldn't bother calling out the bad stuff because the 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.399 very factor doing that means that I believe in the 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.440 better future, and I believe that there is some value 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.840 in continuing to surface places where tech could do better. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.919 So I really liked because I think Carrie, you're in 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.760 general more upbeat than I have, and I'm slightly more cynical, 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.760 But I like that explanation of how you know to 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.080 your point about critical thinking and compassion. It kind of 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.080 for me it captured something about how you can, you know, 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.240 do critical thinking without being negative per se, and in 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:07.879 fact it's because you want something better. 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.600 Absolutely, Yeah, I love that that perspective. Honestly, I've also 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.720 thought of optimism in the same way, about how the 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.800 pat description of optimism tends to go right along with naivete, 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:21.919 like the idea, the idea that the only way you 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.119 can be an optimist is if you're looking at the 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.600 world through rose colored glasses. Kara, I can't see what 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.520 color your glasses are, but I'm pretty sure they're not roses. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:31.439 They're sort of green. They're sort of green, which is 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:32.639 the way I look through the world. 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.399 Excellent, Excellent, We're gonna we're getting into more of an 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:39.960 alphabet defying gravity situation, you know. By the way, y'all, 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:41.800 I'm sorry that you can't see the video version of this, 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:46.359 because we did do the whole loathing dance number, as 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:52.640 per required in contracts whenever entertainers meet in person. I 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.000 I like that a lot, though. Yeah, I think that 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:58.080 optimists have to be the kind of people who they 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.960 see the future as it possibly could be and the 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.280 steps that need to be taken in order to get there, 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.280 and they're ready to put in the work to make 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.160 it happen. Whereas you know, often you dismiss people as 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.880 optimists if you mean, oh, you just expect good things 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.160 to happen without having to put any work in. That's 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.280 not to me when optimist is that's a lazy person. 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.240 An optimist is someone who they have a vision of 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.440 the future and a vision for getting there, And to me, 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.880 it also is sort of the difference between the founding 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.720 principles of open AI and arguably kind of the more 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.600 recent direction of open AI. Not to say that open 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.520 AI is necessarily going the wrong way, but certainly like 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:43.960 the founding principle was all about responsible and accountable development 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.040 and deployment of artificial intelligence in a transparent and open way, 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.439 and that has not been what we've seen over the 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.359 last couple of years in large part. And so I 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.680 guess it can be really easy for folks to become 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.000 cynical because even the people who are saying, hey, we 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.200