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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland.

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Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts. And for the

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Speaker 1: last time from me, y'all, how the tech are you? Yes,

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Speaker 1: it is the Swan song. I'm bowing out, I'm done,

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Speaker 1: I'm tagging out, and I've been teasing it for more

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Speaker 1: than a month. Now it is time for us to

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Speaker 1: meet the intrepid hosts who are going to take tech

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Speaker 1: Stuff into the future and grow it to heights I

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Speaker 1: can only dream of. Welcome back, my friends, Oz Volishin

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Speaker 1: and Cara Price. Welcome to tech Stuff.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Johnthan, thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: having us back on, and thank you for passing the torch.

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Speaker 2: It's incredibly exciting. I'm not sure we'll scale heights that

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Speaker 2: you can barely dream of, but I hope we'll, you know,

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Speaker 2: do almost as good a job as you've done over

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Speaker 2: an incredible sixteen years.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the kindest thing you could say to me,

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Speaker 1: considering how decorated the two of you are. For those

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Speaker 1: who are unfamiliar with our now hosts of tech Stuff,

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Speaker 1: Oz and Kara you both have have storied backgrounds in

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Speaker 1: producing for television. I mean there's we talk about things

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Speaker 1: like documentaries. Uh, there's a little book club that Merritt's mentioned.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's pretty phenomenal, like you've achieved so much,

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Speaker 1: so I don't think it's false modesty for me to

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Speaker 1: say I have great expectations Dickensian great expect Yeah, yeah, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I got I got an English lit background. We can

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Speaker 1: throw down if you like, but uh, yeah no, it's

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Speaker 1: it is Dickensian in nature. Yes, I am a little

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Speaker 1: street rat here, just pleased to see that the show

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Speaker 1: that I have fostered for the better part of two

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Speaker 1: decades is going to a good home. So I have

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Speaker 1: a lot to thank you or for that. That's I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited. I can't wait. I'm going to be a

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Speaker 1: big fan of the show. It's will be a nice

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Speaker 1: change of pace because currently.

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Speaker 3: Trust us, you don't like listening to yourself?

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Speaker 1: Oh do you like listening to yourself?

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Speaker 3: Kara, Absolutely, I'm I'm glad you'll enjoy the show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's I mean, I think anyone who has

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Speaker 1: done any podcasting like when you get to that stage,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're doing your own editing or QA work.

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Speaker 1: It's something you dread because you're just like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: can I just read a transcript please? I don't need

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Speaker 1: to hear me at least that's how I am. So

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to talk about your vision for tech

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Speaker 1: stuff and where you're taking it in sort of the

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Speaker 1: what you're working with, you know, what's the format of

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Speaker 1: the show going to be like? And over the last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks, we've been talking a lot on this

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Speaker 1: show about stuff in tech that's happened since we first launched,

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Speaker 1: and it's just kind of funny to see how much

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Speaker 1: has changed in the time that, you know, from June

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight when we started to now. So

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Speaker 1: the big example I give is, did you know in

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Speaker 1: June two thousand and eight when we started, iTunes had

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Speaker 1: not opened an app store yet, so there were no

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Speaker 1: apps other than the once preloaded up.

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Speaker 3: What was I doing on iTunes? I guess I was

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Speaker 3: just listening to music on iTunes.

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Speaker 1: You could listen to podcasts, but there were no other apps, like,

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Speaker 1: other than the stuff that Apple already preloaded. And but

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Speaker 1: then even then, like it would take a couple of

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Speaker 1: years for Apple to really change the world by introducing

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Speaker 1: Apple maps and guiding everybody to drive into rivers and stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was.

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Speaker 2: I was listening to your Thanksgiving episode and it's crazy

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Speaker 2: now with like data analytics and like immediate you know,

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Speaker 2: user feedback, And am I right in remembering that when

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Speaker 2: you launched tech stuff, you didn't even know if anyone

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Speaker 2: at all was listening to it.

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Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, I'm sure that the producers had access.

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Speaker 1: I don't even remember what the We've been through so

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Speaker 1: many different publication platforms. I can't even tell you what

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Speaker 1: it was back in the day. So I'm sure that

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Speaker 1: they had access to analytics, but the show creators, as

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Speaker 1: far as I know, were largely unaware unless it was

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Speaker 1: one of those things that just would make the trades, right,

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Speaker 1: so stuff, you should know. It was an incredible success

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Speaker 1: nearly right out of the gate, because Chuck and Josh

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Speaker 1: are fantastic. They do such a great job and have

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Speaker 1: since they started, And so that we knew because like

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Speaker 1: that would get up there on the top iTunes podcast

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Speaker 1: charts all the time. But beyond that, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: you record a show, publish it, and it was like

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Speaker 1: shouting into the void and wondering if anyone could hear you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so exciting stuff.

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Speaker 2: We were planned to do two episodes a week, I think.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it seems like your height, you've done like

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Speaker 2: four or five episodes a week, So we were starting

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Speaker 2: with a level of humility about I mean, your output,

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Speaker 2: Jonathan is insane.

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Speaker 3: Particular.

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Speaker 2: I know there have been times when you had a

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Speaker 2: co host and like, yeah, times when you've had guests,

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Speaker 2: but I just I can't believe how much stuff you've covered.

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Speaker 1: It was a lot. Yeah, yeah, I talked about this

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Speaker 1: on the show, so I'm not shy about talking about

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Speaker 1: it now. But up until just the beginning of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, I was doing really four new episodes a

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Speaker 1: week and then one rerun typically right unbelievable, And each

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Speaker 1: episode usually meant that I was spending around eight hours

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Speaker 1: of researching and writing before I even wrote record, So

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Speaker 1: you're talking about, you know, thirty two hours of research

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Speaker 1: and writing for around four hours of audio than the reruns,

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Speaker 1: and then I would the rest of what little time

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Speaker 1: I had would deal with other stuff. But I found

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Speaker 1: the secret to dealing with that workload is to have

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Speaker 1: a near stroke and be hospitalized and then suddenly you

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Speaker 1: have to change. So I've joked about it, but really

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Speaker 1: that is what told me that I had to make

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Speaker 1: a change, and so we scaled back to three those

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Speaker 1: three new episodes. I didn't do very many reruns this year,

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Speaker 1: unless say or this past year. Keep saying this year,

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Speaker 1: because twenty twenty five doesn't seem real to me yet.

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Speaker 1: But uh yeah, I think two is a great play

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Speaker 1: to really create a foundation, and if you ever build

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Speaker 1: on that, that's fine. But I think two is actually

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Speaker 1: the sweet spot personally. It was one of those things

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Speaker 1: in Tech Stuff where we were performing really well, and

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Speaker 1: so there was always this desire to add to inventory.

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Speaker 2: Right, I like, by the way, and you well you

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Speaker 2: did the kind of history of Tech Stuff episode kind

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Speaker 2: of explaining the mechanics of how the ad business change

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Speaker 2: and the host red ads and the insertions and stuff.

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Speaker 2: But yes, I mean obviously like inventory is a key

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Speaker 2: sort of driver of the viability of podcasts, right.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And I think transparency with your listeners is

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Speaker 1: always a good thing, Like you can feel icky to

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Speaker 1: talk about that sort of stuff, because you know, there's

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Speaker 1: I think of a friend of mine who was an

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Speaker 1: artistic director for a theater here in Atlanta, And I

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Speaker 1: was once talking to him about his job, and I said,

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Speaker 1: what's the toughest thing about your job? And he said,

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Speaker 1: for me, the toughest thing is balancing art and commerce.

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Speaker 1: Because the theater is a business, so you have to

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Speaker 1: treat it as a business, but it's also in the

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Speaker 1: business of fostering and delivering art to an audience. So

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Speaker 1: how do you find that balance where the two can

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Speaker 1: be in harmony and you can do both things well.

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Speaker 1: I think podcasting is very much the same, and that

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Speaker 1: you want to be able to say something that's worth hearing, right.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to just be like you don't want

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Speaker 1: to just be chattering nonsense into a microphone and then

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Speaker 1: pushing it out. You want it to have meaning and

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Speaker 1: for it to be of value. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: you know, you got to keep the lights on. And

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Speaker 1: so there's a balance there, even for people who are

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Speaker 1: passionate about podcasts and they want to follow it as

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Speaker 1: a passion. If you're going to do it in a

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Speaker 1: way that it's self sustainable, you have to start making

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Speaker 1: these calls, and it's not always.

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Speaker 3: Easy, absolutely, And I think that because you're in people's ears.

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Speaker 3: I think there's an expectation for honesty, which is something

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Speaker 3: that you know, having listened to some episodes of yours

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Speaker 3: over the years, there's a certain level of just speaking

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Speaker 3: right to the listener. Yeah, and I think that's something

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Speaker 3: that we really like to adopt and that you've done

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Speaker 3: very well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So early on with podcasting, I was listening to

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Speaker 1: podcasts before I was making them. So I was one

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Speaker 1: of the few because I was because I was already

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Speaker 1: a geek before I even started working for house Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works way back in the day. So I was a

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Speaker 1: big fan of There was a show called buzz Out

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Speaker 1: Loud from ce.

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Speaker 3: Neet and oh my god, it still exists.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it still exists. Although the people that I listened

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Speaker 1: to all moved on to do other things like tom

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Speaker 1: Merritt is doing his own thing and Molly Wood she's

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Speaker 1: doing her own thing. But these were people who I

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Speaker 1: looked up to and I admired their work ethic and

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Speaker 1: I loved the output they were creating. And so when

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Speaker 1: it came time for me to be able to do

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Speaker 1: a podcast, I jumped on it because I had already

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Speaker 1: been a big fan of the form, and so one

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Speaker 1: of those things that drove me in the early years

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Speaker 1: and stuck with me through the entirety of it. And

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Speaker 1: part of the reason why is there's a sense of

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Speaker 1: intimacy because you're listening, you know, often with headphones on,

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Speaker 1: there's a real sense of intimacy between you and whomever's delivering,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a single host show or it's people, Like,

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Speaker 1: if it's a conversation, it feels like you're in the

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Speaker 1: room as that conversation is unfolding. And transparency and honesty

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Speaker 1: to me are absolutely necessary because in that intimate moment,

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Speaker 1: unless you're a really good social engineer slash liar, people

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Speaker 1: will pick up on insincerity or fibbing or anything you

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Speaker 1: want to call. And I've said over and over again

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Speaker 1: the biggest mistake I find some podcasters making is a

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Speaker 1: drastic underestimation of how smart their audience is. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: especially when you talk about ads, like, we live in

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Speaker 1: a world inundated with ads. We've all experienced it, so

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Speaker 1: there's no way to tiptoe around ads where people aren't

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Speaker 1: going to be like, well, that.

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Speaker 3: Passes the smell test right totally.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break to thank our

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Speaker 1: sponsors when we come back I'll talk more with our

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Speaker 1: future Tech Stuff hosts Oz and Kara, both about my

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Speaker 1: experiences int and where they planned to take the show next.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned.

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Speaker 2: Karen and I have been friends for approaching ten years. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and we became I would say, much closer friends by

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Speaker 2: doing a podcast together Sleepwalker Sleepwalkers. Wish we were on

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Speaker 2: your show to talk about it. Yeah, this show five

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Speaker 2: years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's about AI. Y'all did amazing work, Like the

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Speaker 1: Sleepwalkers episodes are to this day very compelling. It's also

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Speaker 1: interesting to see where the conversation is an AI now

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Speaker 1: compared to when you were doing the show, because you know,

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Speaker 1: those conversations y'all were having. It was in days when

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Speaker 1: the mainstream public really, I mean we had all heard AI.

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Speaker 1: We had all heard about it. Maybe we had even

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Speaker 1: gone to see the Steven Spielberg stat slash Stanley Kubrick film,

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Speaker 1: but that was about the extent of it. And you

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Speaker 1: were getting into some of those conversations that now are

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Speaker 1: in mainstream news and are part of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: water cooler conversations because AI has become an inescapable topic

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Speaker 1: just in everyday life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had the tagline for the show. You may

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Speaker 2: not care about AI, but AI cares about you. Now

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Speaker 2: now I think probably you care about AI as well,

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Speaker 2: but A.

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Speaker 3: Still cares about yea and more and more, more and more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But one of my one of my favorite episodes of Sleepwalkers, actually, Jonathan,

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Speaker 2: just because you mentioned, you know, the personal and your

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Speaker 2: health problems, Cara, was actually the episode where we made

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Speaker 2: a fake copy of your voice to try and scam

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Speaker 2: your cousin.

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Speaker 3: With Liarbird Aier.

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Speaker 2: Bird AI, which now has become Runway m L which

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Speaker 2: is a multi billion dollar company. But I mean, I

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Speaker 2: thought that that was both fun because we used your

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Speaker 2: voice to trick a family member and it kind of

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Speaker 2: spoke to that thing in podcasting about voice and authenticity

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Speaker 2: and all those things. But then you went on to

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Speaker 2: reflect about you know, losing your father and would you

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Speaker 2: want to interact with a digital version of him, which

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Speaker 2: again now is something which is part of the mainstream conversation.

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Speaker 2: But I was very very moved by that piece of that.

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Speaker 3: You well, and similar not to talk too much about

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Speaker 3: our show in the episodes, but for those who don't know,

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Speaker 3: you know, we also did an episode that focused more

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Speaker 3: on sort of health and AI healthcare, and I was

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Speaker 3: able to speak to a woman who was an engineer

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Speaker 3: who was also diagnosed with breast cancer. And this was

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Speaker 3: very early on in the conversation about you know, how

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Speaker 3: to train data sets on hundreds of thousands of mammograms,

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Speaker 3: for example, to then be able to recognize what does

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Speaker 3: breast cancer look like in a woman's breast, you know,

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Speaker 3: And these were things that at the time, I think

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Speaker 3: both Oz and I felt very much at the forefront

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Speaker 3: of that conversation, not because we're pioneers, but because these

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Speaker 3: are fairly new conversations unless you're working outside of you know,

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Speaker 3: engineering sci goals and data science programs, and so we're

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Speaker 3: really excited about, I think in terms of one of

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Speaker 3: the things we're really excited about in terms of taking

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Speaker 3: over this or having the baton passed to us digitally.

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Speaker 1: Taking it overt hostile takeover. He held a bunch of

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Speaker 1: zeros and ones to my throat and I no, no,

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Speaker 1: obviously no.

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Speaker 3: But I think one of the things we're really excited

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Speaker 3: about is that a lot of what we reported on

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Speaker 3: for Sleepwalkers is evergreen, and the difference now is actually

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Speaker 3: just how much faster processing has become and how the

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Speaker 3: rate of change is even faster than it was when

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Speaker 3: we were reporting, you know however many years ago, and

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Speaker 3: so in a certain sense, like the stories still remain

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Speaker 3: very human. I think it's like the capability of the

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Speaker 3: technology that keeps changing. And I think you, as someone

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Speaker 3: who has been doing this for so long, has probably

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Speaker 3: seen how the rate of change affects the rate of change, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean, sure, GPT is twenty twenty two. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's like essentially post main COVID. It's so ubiquitous at

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Speaker 3: this point, like to think that that was three years

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Speaker 3: ago that like most people did not know what chat

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Speaker 3: GPT was. What a year and a half ago? Sure,

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Speaker 3: or two years ago? So, I mean these are the

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Speaker 3: kinds of things that I think we find very exciting

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Speaker 3: as reporters, but also as you know, like you, I

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Speaker 3: think two nerds who are very interested in the ways

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Speaker 3: in which you know, technology intersects both personally and also culturally.

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Speaker 3: It seems to be very important because I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of people lay people whose most people don't know

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Speaker 3: how to dissect this information and don't want to be

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Speaker 3: told what to think, but they do want to be

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Speaker 3: told what to think about Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean like I have been famously rather rather

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Speaker 1: critical about a lot of AI implementations, not because of

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Speaker 1: the issues I have with the technology, but rather the

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Speaker 1: nature of those implementations in some pretty high profile cases,

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Speaker 1: like when you're using AI to do things like image

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Speaker 1: analysis and recognition for things like looking at mammograms to

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Speaker 1: increase the accuracy of diagnoses. I think that is brilliant.

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Speaker 1: I think that's wonderful. I think that's something that we

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Speaker 1: strive for. And it also is a reminder that you

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Speaker 1: can't paint all AI with the same brush. That AI

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Speaker 1: is an enormously broad spectrum of disciplines, and that we

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Speaker 1: often will reduce that down to chad GBT is stealing artists'

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Speaker 1: work and passing it off as their own. But the

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Speaker 1: stuff that tends to make the news tends to fall

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Speaker 1: on that second category. Like occasionally you'll get like a

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Speaker 1: nice optimistic story about how AI could make a positive impact,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of the stories tend to be on

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Speaker 1: the more critical side. So whether it's artists who are

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Speaker 1: worried about their work being used to train up the

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Speaker 1: next generation of the I and then put themselves out

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Speaker 1: of work in the process, or it's a boss of

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Speaker 1: a major tech company saying we're not going to fill

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Speaker 1: those two thousand positions, We're going to let Ai do it,

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Speaker 1: and I envision a future where HR is entirely Ai. Like,

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Speaker 1: those are tough stories to deliver in a way that

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Speaker 1: doesn't come across as somewhat dystopian in nature. So that's

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Speaker 1: why I've often said that tech Stuff's guiding principles have

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Speaker 1: always been critical thinking and compassion. You want to have

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Speaker 1: critical thinking, to ask the questions, to make sure that

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Speaker 1: you have a proper understanding of the story. You want

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Speaker 1: compassion not just for the people who are being impacted

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Speaker 1: by that story, but maybe the people who are making

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Speaker 1: the decisions, so that you can understand where they're coming from.

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Speaker 1: Because it's too easy to paint everything as this is

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Speaker 1: evil fat cat capitalist and they just do evil, fat

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Speaker 1: cat capitalist things because they are a two dimensional villain

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Speaker 1: from a vaudevillian production, and you're like, no, people are

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Speaker 1: a little more complicated that. Maybe not Elon Musk, but

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Speaker 1: everyone else is more complicated than that.

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Speaker 2: Well, so we actually ask Google Gemini how to how

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Speaker 2: to prepare for this? Prepared for this, and one of

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Speaker 2: the pieces of advice was to be clear with the

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Speaker 2: audience about what to expect going forward. So there's a

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Speaker 2: lot a lot of the advice was obviously, like very

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Speaker 2: was very cliche, but some of it was was relevant

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Speaker 2: as well. So you asked Jonathan, what kind of what

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Speaker 2: people can expect from the show going forward. We're going

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Speaker 2: to do two episodes a week. We're calling the Wednesday

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Speaker 2: episode the Story, and the idea is that it will

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Speaker 2: be a kind of evergreen interview with somebody conversation with

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Speaker 2: me and Kara. Then one or the other of us

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Speaker 2: will will kind of present an interview and then we'll

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Speaker 2: discuss it afterwards, but with somebody who either has an

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Speaker 2: incredible story about the intersection of technology and humanity and culture,

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Speaker 2: or who in some sense is kind of a builder of,

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Speaker 2: you know, the future. And so you mentioned just now

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Speaker 2: this how it's very hard not to be kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, sound negative about in many cases. One of

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Speaker 2: the interviews we have that we've already done and which

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Speaker 2: we'll be publishing in the next few weeks is with

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Speaker 2: Meredith Whittaker and she as i'm sure you know, led

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Speaker 2: the protest movement at Google and the walkouts having to

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Speaker 2: do with Project Maven and the defense contracting and she

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Speaker 2: now runs Signal, the encrypted messaging app, which is obviously

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Speaker 2: really cool. And one of the things she said was,

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Speaker 2: you know, I often get criticized for being negative or pessimistic,

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Speaker 2: but actually I'm an optimist, and if I wasn't an optimist,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't bother calling out the bad stuff because the

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Speaker 2: very factor doing that means that I believe in the

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Speaker 2: better future, and I believe that there is some value

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Speaker 2: in continuing to surface places where tech could do better.

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Speaker 2: So I really liked because I think Carrie, you're in

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Speaker 2: general more upbeat than I have, and I'm slightly more cynical,

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Speaker 2: But I like that explanation of how you know to

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Speaker 2: your point about critical thinking and compassion. It kind of

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Speaker 2: for me it captured something about how you can, you know,

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Speaker 2: do critical thinking without being negative per se, and in

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Speaker 2: fact it's because you want something better.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, I love that that perspective. Honestly, I've also

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Speaker 1: thought of optimism in the same way, about how the

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Speaker 1: pat description of optimism tends to go right along with naivete,

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Speaker 1: like the idea, the idea that the only way you

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Speaker 1: can be an optimist is if you're looking at the

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Speaker 1: world through rose colored glasses. Kara, I can't see what

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Speaker 1: color your glasses are, but I'm pretty sure they're not roses.

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Speaker 3: They're sort of green. They're sort of green, which is

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Speaker 3: the way I look through the world.

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Speaker 1: Excellent, Excellent, We're gonna we're getting into more of an

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Speaker 1: alphabet defying gravity situation, you know. By the way, y'all,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry that you can't see the video version of this,

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Speaker 1: because we did do the whole loathing dance number, as

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Speaker 1: per required in contracts whenever entertainers meet in person. I

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Speaker 1: I like that a lot, though. Yeah, I think that

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Speaker 1: optimists have to be the kind of people who they

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Speaker 1: see the future as it possibly could be and the

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Speaker 1: steps that need to be taken in order to get there,

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Speaker 1: and they're ready to put in the work to make

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Speaker 1: it happen. Whereas you know, often you dismiss people as

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Speaker 1: optimists if you mean, oh, you just expect good things

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Speaker 1: to happen without having to put any work in. That's

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Speaker 1: not to me when optimist is that's a lazy person.

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Speaker 1: An optimist is someone who they have a vision of

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Speaker 1: the future and a vision for getting there, And to me,

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Speaker 1: it also is sort of the difference between the founding

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Speaker 1: principles of open AI and arguably kind of the more

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Speaker 1: recent direction of open AI. Not to say that open

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Speaker 1: AI is necessarily going the wrong way, but certainly like

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Speaker 1: the founding principle was all about responsible and accountable development

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Speaker 1: and deployment of artificial intelligence in a transparent and open way,

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Speaker 1: and that has not been what we've seen over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years in large part. And so I

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Speaker 1: guess it can be really easy for folks to become

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Speaker 1: cynical because even the people who are saying, hey, we

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Speaker 1: need to do this don't seemed to be following through

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Speaker 1: on their vision, at least from a surface level. But

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Speaker 1: I've never had deep conversations with anyone in Opening I

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Speaker 1: just know the board of directors tried to tried to

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Speaker 1: change things by alting Sam Altman, and then paid for

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Speaker 1: that dearly once he returned.

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Speaker 2: So actually, one of the other guests we have on

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Speaker 2: in fact, the first guest we're planning for Wednesday, the

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Speaker 2: fifteenth of January, is Jeffrey Hinton, who just won the

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Speaker 2: Nobel Prize in Physics for his work as the of

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Speaker 2: the pioneers of AI, and Ilia Sutskeev graduate students and

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Speaker 2: Hinton has just joined the amicus brief filed by a

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Speaker 2: nonprofit who are arguing that open ai shouldn't be allowed

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Speaker 2: to change from a nonprofit to a for profit status.

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Speaker 2: So that should be a super interesting conversation as well.

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Speaker 2: On Fridays, we're going to do something which is more topical.

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Speaker 2: I think you had something called like tax stuff news

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Speaker 2: right for a while.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would do a tech news on Fridays typically

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Speaker 1: where I would grab different headlines and give I would

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Speaker 1: say brief, but you know me, brief is not something

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Speaker 1: I do. But the yes, yes, whether it'sis tediousness of

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Speaker 1: the limbs and not reflourishes or too Yeah, no, I

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Speaker 1: would be as brief as possible, but yes, I would

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Speaker 1: do news on Fridays.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to do the same. We're going to

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Speaker 2: news on Fridays. We're gonna Karen and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: talk about some headlines and then we're going to have

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Speaker 2: a brief sort of news roundup segment with this company

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Speaker 2: called four or for Media. It's actually a collective. It

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Speaker 2: was the team basically who did Motherboard Advice, and when

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Speaker 2: Vice kind of imploded, they left to start their own

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Speaker 2: thing called for a form media. So I'll be a

434
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 2: second segment, and the third segment we're going to do

435
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: something called.

436
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 3: Just to say when did this become a thing? Is

437
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 3: basically my singular obsession, and it can really range, you know,

438
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 3: it can run the gamut of you know, different tech innovation.

439
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 3: I think most interestingly the things that we encounter in

440
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 3: our everyday lives. You know, I think GPT. As I

441
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 3: said to you, it's like, when did people start saying, oh,

442
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 3: I'm going to use chat ebt to like come up

443
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 3: with that wedding speech. Right? When did this become a thing?

444
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 3: But also when did it become a thing that I

445
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 3: can opt into facial recognition on Delta? You know, when

446
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 3: did this become a thing? You know, when did it

447
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 3: become a thing that there are you know, digital labels

448
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 3: in my clothing because all of a sudden we're trying

449
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 3: to invest more in a circular economy. You know, there's

450
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: a number of touch points I think day to day.

451
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 3: I don't know why I always think of airline apps,

452
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 3: but like we just are so naturally inclined to accept

453
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 3: that there are upgrades to things, whether it be you know,

454
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 3: speaking of the app store. It's like there are always

455
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 3: just natural upgrades to apps, and we don't ask the

456
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 3: question when did this become a thing? Yeah, and so

457
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 3: that's really the spirit of this segment. Oz and I

458
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: I think both self identify as digital natives, although Oz

459
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 3: really tries to keep broken technology around for as long as possible.

460
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 3: But we're both digital natives, and one of the first

461
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 3: things that we're going to explore is when did that

462
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 3: become a thing? You know, because certainly gen x I

463
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 3: don't think would consider themselves digital natives, even if they

464
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: knew how to turn the TV on without their parents.

465
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, as a gen xer, I can I can verify

466
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: that I turned fifty this year, y'all.

467
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 3: So yeah, congratulations, you look good.

468
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: Thanks, thanks, Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, No, I'm fifty

469
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: years old this year. So yeah, I think that's brilliant because,

470
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: like I remember getting online and accessing the internet before

471
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: the web was a thing, you know, I remember how

472
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: did you do that? So I used tellnet mostly. I

473
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: would tell them into servers and go to like chatrooms.

474
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 1: That's how I met my wife. Honestly, no fun story.

475
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: That tracks I mean in the sense of you host text.

476
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, I met my wife. I met my wife

477
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: on a on chat, a digital chat room, text based

478
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: chat room.

479
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 3: No picks at that, no picks.

480
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: No, there wasn't even an easy way of sharing a

481
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: pic because digital cameras were really expensive. Now this is

482
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: like the mid early mid nineties, so you know, a

483
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: digital camera was an unthinkable expense, like I would be

484
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: a luxury that I could not even dream of. Usually

485
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: if I were using a camera, it was one of

486
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: those cardboard disposable things that you would find it like

487
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: weddings or whatever. You would actually have to have the

488
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 1: film developed.

489
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 2: Then love those.

490
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, now those are coming back because everyone's addicted to

491
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 3: analog again. It's another story.

492
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: Well that's a whole episode in itself, right, very much.

493
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm definitely like, if you ever.

494
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: Want me on it, I'll be on it y because

495
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 3: I will talk anytime.

496
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: I would love to talk about how the changes in

497
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: how we access our media have driven this desire to

498
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: return to physical formats. Because I'm one of those people.

499
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: I thought I was done with DVDs and Blu rays.

500
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: I thought I was done with Well, I don't do

501
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: cassettes or CDs anymore, but I do. I do vinyl.

502
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: I thought I was done with all that and now

503
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm like right back into it, So I would I

504
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: would love to talk about that. I love the idea

505
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: of when did this become a thing? Like the im

506
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: media topic that sprung to my mind is when did

507
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: in game purchases start to become a thing, Because you mean.

508
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 3: When did parents go broke basically, or.

509
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: Or gen xers who grew up playing games and never

510
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: grew out of it. But like, like, like I think

511
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: about those in game purchases that have become like you know,

512
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: living games are sometimes what they're refer to, right, these

513
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: games that are designed to never be sunset because it's

514
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: an ongoing revenue generator.

515
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 2: I thought that was one of the very interesting points

516
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 2: in you in the piece you did about I know

517
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 2: you're looking back at each year of tech stuff and

518
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: in the app store obviously, like I know what the

519
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: app store is, and I know that's where I get apps.

520
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: But like the bit about how like Apple like basically

521
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: charging thirty percent for all in app purchases, I knew

522
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 2: as well, but I didn't really put the pieces together

523
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 2: until your piece. And obviously the very interesting thing was

524
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 2: it doesn't apply to the physical world, which is kind

525
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 2: of crazy but makes sense. You know, they didn't charge

526
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: they wouldn't charge like thirty percent for the delivery of

527
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: pizza through one of the apps right from that, right, but.

528
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: If it were a digital pizza in a game, they

529
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: would right.

530
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, So there was a class action against Apple

531
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 3: from a number like there because there were single families

532
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 3: that had found out that kids were spending thousands and

533
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 3: thousands of dollars on Minecraft, and all of a sudden,

534
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 3: these parents are looking at their Apple bills and seeing, like,

535
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: you know, a six year old spending ten thousand dollars

536
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 3: on an in app purchase. So it's a very interesting story.

537
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, any service where you have a method of payment

538
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: tied to that service, you should be very very careful

539
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: about how that is used by either you or your

540
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: family because it can quickly lead to those situations and

541
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: whether it's a child or it's someone who has just

542
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: sort of that addictive personality where you know, there are

543
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 1: games I've played and everyone is familiar with these, the

544
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: games where like you can you can hit a certain

545
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: level of advancement and then you're you're hit with an

546
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: artificial time limitter where it's like, all right, you can't

547
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: do any more of this until you wait till you know,

548
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, twelve more hours, or you can pay a

549
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: dollar and you can play right now. And I'm one

550
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: of those people who I'm like, no, I got other

551
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: things can distract me. I can walk away. But there

552
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: are folks who are like you know that that dopamine

553
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: release where they're they want to feel that they've had

554
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: a sense of accomplishment, they'll just pay right into it.

555
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: And kids, in particular, if they don't have a real

556
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: understanding of how money works, because I certainly didn't for.

557
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: A very long I don't.

558
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: Arguably I don't now.

559
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: I'm just like, Actually, I bounced around in my in

560
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: my career doing various things as well as journalism. But

561
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: for a time I was actually a a consultant and

562
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: I worked on a project for Google and they were

563
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: very interested in mobile games and psychology and mobile games,

564
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: and so I ended up being sent on a world

565
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: tour to do basically like in home research with like

566
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: very heavy game players, and I got to go to

567
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 2: Taiwan and Japan and Korea. It was just incredible. I mean,

568
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: it was an incredible experience that basically hang out with

569
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: like you know all kinds of different people who played

570
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: mobile games, and it was it was interesting. So some

571
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: people were like clearly in control and they're like, I

572
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: have a budget of like X, and I spend it

573
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: on games and like that's fine.

574
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: Oh my good for you.

575
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 2: And some people would like I played for three days

576
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: and then I had to wait for twenty seven days

577
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: until my next check comes in from work because I

578
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: just I can't control it. So I mean it was

579
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: it was pretty remarkable. I think in Japan they have

580
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: this thing called gotcha, and it was the idea of

581
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: like being obsessed with those.

582
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 3: Yeah laws, I'm quite good at them.

583
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: Next tip I go to the carnival, I'm taking care

584
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: of with me.

585
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: You should take me on a little keychain. You can

586
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 3: fit me on a keychain that you could win in

587
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 3: a gotcha machine.

588
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: So none of us are at CES this week, sadly.

589
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 3: But I remember.

590
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: Sneaking a cigarette with with Cara on the floor of the.

591
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 3: I've quit and I don't vape speaking, this is tech stuff.

592
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 3: I don't vape.

593
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: Okay, good, you won't be endulsing any company.

594
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: But sorry us continue I interrupted you, No.

595
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: No, I just I just I just babbling on actually,

596
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: we need to.

597
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: Take a quick break to think our sponsors, but we'll

598
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: be right back with Kara. And as.

599
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 3: The last part of this second you know, episode per

600
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 3: Week that we've been talking about is something that's really

601
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 3: near and dear to me as a sort of pop

602
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: culture fanatic and as someone who's been you know, thinking

603
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 3: about how to take over the mantle of tech stuff.

604
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: Is like, you know, how do we tell technology stories

605
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: through the lens of culture and every day and it

606
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: excites me to no end. But like every day there

607
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: are new culture stories where AI is just kind of

608
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: thrown in the mix, you know, there's a sort of

609
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: sprinkle of AI, and so, you know, I think one

610
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 3: of the things that I'm really excited to do is

611
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 3: to find those stories and then tell people who might

612
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: not think of said story as a technology story that oh,

613
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: actually behind this, technology is actually either really affecting this

614
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: or somehow intersecting, for example, with the lives of the

615
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 3: Kardashians in a way that we did not expect. And

616
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: here's how you.

617
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: Did something on the Optimist robot, right, Jonathan.

618
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I talked about I talked about it briefly.

619
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: When I want to say it was the because that's

620
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: the Tesla one, right, Yeah, yeah, I talked about it.

621
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: I know, I talked about briefly a couple times in

622
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: news episodes. But when there was the big Tesla press

623
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: event where they had robots dancing and bartending, I talked

624
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: about it wasn't that Tesla was trying to pass them

625
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: off as working entirely autonomously, so I do not wish

626
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: to cast aspersions upon the company. They never said they're

627
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: doing that, but it was like, oh yeah, those were

628
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: often being controlled, you know, just off to the side

629
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: by someone with a computer or whatever. I'm like, yeah,

630
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: of course they were. We're not at a point where

631
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: they could where you're going to be boogying down with

632
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: a robot just completely autonomously, and like it would be

633
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: different if they claimed it otherwise, but they never did,

634
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: so I feel okay about that one.

635
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: But we were pretty fascinated. Well, Cara was you know,

636
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: one of the sort of Kim Kardashian optimist robot posts

637
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: as it went live. But you know, could you ever imagine,

638
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: like in two thousand and eight or notthen like that,

639
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: you know, robotics would become like something which the biggest,

640
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: most mainstream celebrity in the US was like excite to

641
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: be associated.

642
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: With absolutely not. I remember, okay, so this goes pretech stuff.

643
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: But one of my first article assignments when I started

644
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: writing for How Stuff Works was how Asimo works. Asimo

645
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: being a robot that Honda created, and it was the

646
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: first humanoid robot that could run. And by run, it

647
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: means that both feet for a split second lose contact

648
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: with the ground as it propels itself forward. Now, when

649
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: it ran, it looked like a little short person having

650
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom because it was this little,

651
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: weird little squad run. But it could run. And when

652
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: you start thinking about how complicated that is from a

653
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: robotics standpoint, and how do you engineer that so that

654
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: the robot maintains balance, that's really a complex thing. And

655
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: at the time I was thinking, I might be the

656
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: only person who's really jazzed about this. And I could

657
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: never imagine that someone who is famous mostly for being famous,

658
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 1: would ever be associated with robots. I thought, Oh, well,

659
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: geeky people like me, who's you know, my dad wrote

660
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: Star Trek novels, so like, yeah, I am genetically engineered

661
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: to be to be a geek who freaks out about robots.

662
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: But I didn't think it was ever going to become

663
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: a thing where, you know, one of the most well

664
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: known celebrities, especially in the influencer world, is associated with them.

665
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: That just never occurred to me. I did freak out

666
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: when I got to meet Asimo at Disneyland. That was

667
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: a high point.

668
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 3: Was he nice to you?

669
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: Very taciturn I'd say, but to be fair, he did

670
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: just drain his battery doing a show.

671
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 3: So I was going to say, to your point, just

672
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 3: even about influencers, I don't think you would have you know,

673
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 3: kind of seen Lil Mikayla coming either, that there would

674
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 3: be actual digital influencers who which is It's funny there

675
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 3: are things. I'm sure you've noticed this. I'm not going

676
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 3: to get on a tangent because I want to go

677
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 3: back to the fact that your father wrote Star Trek novelge.

678
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: Sure.

679
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there are things that come and go to

680
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: that are really interesting that I think are worth mentioning,

681
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: like web like you know, Web three, you know, like

682
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 3: things that people were really excited about. I mean, VR

683
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 3: is one of these things that is like we are

684
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 3: constantly like climate to you know, how to what extent

685
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 3: are people really going to adopt virtual worlds outside of

686
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 3: gaming and bluff And you know, I think.

687
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: The metaverse really going to be the future of how

688
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: we interact online.

689
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, exactly. And I think it's our job both

690
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 3: to not even critique, but to sort of point out

691
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 3: that there's a lot of stuff thrown at the wall,

692
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 3: much of it does not stick, and I think it's

693
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 3: important to remind people of what doesn't stick. You know,

694
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 3: Google X being one of the things that we covered

695
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 3: on What was Google?

696
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: So you're talking about the Google Social plan.

697
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 3: I like.

698
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 2: You mentioned, like, yeah, you were like in twenty eleven

699
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: Google Plus launch.

700
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 3: But plus they were early to the Plus though. So

701
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 3: your dad wrote Star Trek novels.

702
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: My dad.

703
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 3: My dad also wrote and published a lot of graphic

704
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 3: novels and novelizations of comics.

705
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, my excess. My dad's a science fiction, fantasy, horror,

706
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: mystery novelist. He's written probably around eighty books at this point,

707
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: maybe more. I'd have to ask him. But the Star

708
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: Trek ones were young adult novels that he wrote that

709
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: were in the Starfleet Academy series, where he had ones

710
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: about Kirk and Spock, and he had ones about Picard,

711
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: so he wrote for those. But he also wrote, I

712
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: don't know if either of you know this reference, but

713
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: there used to be a PBS show called Wishbone in

714
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: which a little Jack Rustle tw you're.

715
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 3: Kidding me, Okay. He was my first crash my dad,

716
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 3: and I think.

717
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 2: He was licensed from Britain as well.

718
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, well Wishbe was so English. Wishman was

719
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 3: not an American dog. He had a feather in his cap.

720
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: My dad, my dad wrote Wishbone books. If you look

721
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: up What Deal Wolf, it's the adaptation of Wolf and

722
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: Salty Dog, which was which was Treasure Island. Dad's favorite novel,

723
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 1: Treasure Island. I'm really well, actually I think Dad's favorite

724
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 1: novel might be something Wicked This Way comes by Ray Bradbury.

725
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: But but it's which is a fantastic book. But yeah,

726
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: it's uh, he's he wrote, He's written lots and lots.

727
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 3: Of stuff, very connected by those things. I was the

728
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 3: girl in school who and maybe this sort of I

729
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: don't know made me destined for this conversation right now.

730
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 3: But I was the girl in school who you know,

731
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: everybody else had the sort of oily stickers with Lisa

732
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 3: Franks and I had the I had the Star Trek.

733
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 3: What do you call the logo? What is that?

734
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: Oh the little emblem?

735
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, that's what I was trading.

736
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: So one of the one of the other upcoming episodes

737
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 2: we have recorded for the Wednesday the story episode is

738
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 2: with a guy called Nathaniel Rich who wrote an incredible

739
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: piece of the New York Times magazine about how NASA

740
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 2: is simulating Martian colonies on Earth and there are these

741
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: people who basically a volunteering to spend you know, three

742
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty plus days in the Johnston Space Center

743
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: in these in these Martian colonies, and how it's kind

744
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: of part of the research efforts to you know, understand

745
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 2: exactly what it will take to colonize Mars. But picking

746
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: up on the rape Bradbury reference that Nathaniel wanted to

747
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: title his piece Mars is Heaven, but the New York

748
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: Times came up with can humans with standard psychological torture

749
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 2: of Mars?

750
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: Which I clicked on more descriptive.

751
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is where we're reminded that sometimes

752
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: writers get don't have the luxury of being able to

753
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: pick their own headlines. But it's all because it's not

754
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: because people who are really smart about what makes people

755
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: click on things are the ones naming those articles as

756
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: long as the article doesn't give away alex headline doesn't

757
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: give away that too much, where people just scan it

758
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: on Facebook and they feel like they read the thing

759
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: and all they did was read the headline.

760
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 3: In your most Johnathannian way, or actually in in your

761
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 3: most Start Treking way. You know, what wisdom do you

762
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 3: have to impart on us and what would you like

763
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: to see in terms of not the you know, the

764
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: next to steal a Star Trek reference, the next gen

765
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 3: of tech stuff or, as my friend likes to call

766
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 3: gen Z, the new gen of tech stuff.

767
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 1: Well, in true next generation fashion, I recommend you skipped

768
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: straight to mid season two because the first season and

769
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: a half of Star Trek Next Generation is almost unwatchable.

770
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: There are a couple of good episodes, but man or

771
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: there's some clunkers in there. Now. More seriously, I think

772
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: like there's no advice I can give you that you

773
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: don't already have well at hand. I mean, I think

774
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: you're both adept at asking questions and I think getting

775
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: back to things like the web three and the metaverse stuff,

776
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: and the fact that we have this huge surge in

777
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: in hype around certain technologies at certain times, asking the

778
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: questions of why are the people who are pushing this,

779
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: why are they doing that, why are they excited about it?

780
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it because they have a legitimate passion

781
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: for this thing and that they really believe that this

782
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: is something that's going to drive the future. Or is

783
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,959
Speaker 1: it that they have a vested interest in this thing

784
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: and they're desperately trying to get it to gain traction

785
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: so that their investment pays off. Like, I feel a

786
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: lot of crypto communities fall into that second category. Like

787
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: we all remember the disaster that was the NFT boom

788
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: and then bust.

789
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 3: I literally forgot about NFTs for like a year.

790
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry to bring it back, but I feel

791
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,959
Speaker 1: like NFTs could have been a legitimate thing that had

792
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: a place, but we're appropriated so quickly and then pushed

793
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: by a speculative market so hard that for NFTs to

794
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: recover from that and to become something beyond just being

795
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: this joke right is going to take way more work

796
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: than it would have if we just had been able

797
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: to keep the speculator at Bay for like five more minutes.

798
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: So I feel like that to me is always the

799
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: thing is that it's good to be excited about tech.

800
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: It's good to be passionate about it. Like I love

801
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: that feeling too. I love hearing about a new gadget

802
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: that's coming out that I'm just like, I can't wait

803
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: to get my hands on this and see what it

804
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: really does. But I think it's also good to take

805
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: a step back and ask the questions of, well, why

806
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: is this a thing? Why is this being done in

807
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: this specific way? Why are these specific people pushing this

808
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: narrative out? You know, for me, it would be like,

809
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: why does Zuckerberg want the metaverse to be a thing?

810
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: As opposed to having the idea that the metaverse is

811
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: going to be the thing? Like putting that ahead of

812
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 1: everything else makes no sense to me, Like you're it's

813
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: the whole putting the cart before the horse thing, Like

814
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: you've already presupposed that it's destined to be a thing.

815
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 3: We saw what happened with Google glass.

816
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I literally did, because I had a pair.

817
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 2: You got gifted them by Google.

818
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: It was a company purchase from How Stuff Works, a

819
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: company I no longer work.

820
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 2: For and Jonathan you mentioned coming on you know, we

821
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: would love you know whenever, whenever you want to have

822
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: you come back on the show, and also to get

823
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 2: your notes on, you know, on our early early episodes.

824
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: We also started a Gmail Today tech Stuff podcast at

825
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 2: gmail dot com because we love for listeners to write

826
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 2: in as well and let us know you know, what

827
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: we're doing well, but more importantly, what we can do better,

828
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: how we can continue to honor the spirit of tech

829
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: Stuff and the reason you know, you guys have been

830
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: listening to this show for for many years, so you know,

831
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 2: do do write us and let us know, because you know,

832
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 2: we want this to be continue to be a place

833
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 2: where you come once a week, twice a week, as

834
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 2: much as five times a week in Jonathan Jonathan's in

835
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: Jonathan's Craziest Days.

836
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: Nice nice back catalog for you to dive into if

837
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: you want to. Now, I love that so Os and

838
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: care are doing something that I wish I could have

839
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: done more of. And I've often talked about how since

840
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, Tech Stuff's been a solo host show and

841
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: I've been the only person researching, writing, recording the shows.

842
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: I have a wonderful producer named Tari. Tari does phenomenal work,

843
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: but everything on the pre production side is on me,

844
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: and as such, that workload was to a point where

845
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: I withdrew from social It was too much. It was

846
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: too much for me. I couldn't be both the creator

847
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: and runner of the show and also be actively marketing it.

848
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: It was too heavy a lift, and as a result,

849
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: I feel my biggest regret is that I didn't do

850
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: more to foster a community around the show. There is

851
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: a community around the show. I just was kind of

852
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: apart from it, and I love that you and your

853
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: team are taking a concerted effort to foster a community

854
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: because they're out there. They found ways to get in

855
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: touch with me, and I'm not easy to get in

856
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: touch with.

857
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: On to be fat, didn't one of the inventors of

858
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 2: the world why wide Web write in and tell you

859
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 2: that you'd explained it wrong.

860
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Vinton Surf. Vint and Surf did that. He was

861
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: not shy about it either.

862
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: Uh, you've had some listener engagement, yeah, I mean part

863
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: of me both. It's both like a huge compliment in handles.

864
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 3: Like exactly the biggest troll ever.

865
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: Well, like like you you feel embarrassed at the same time,

866
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 1: you're like freaking inventor of like one of the architects

867
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: of the Internet listened to my show, which is again

868
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,959
Speaker 1: getting back to that idea of like, oh wow, people

869
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: are actually listening. A lot of people do, and uh,

870
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: I love that you're you're reaching out to them and

871
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: welcoming them to talk to you, because it's clear like

872
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: the people who found ways to get in touch with me,

873
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: and again I'm not easy to get in touch with,

874
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: they were all giving me very sweet messages, very encouraging

875
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: thanking me for my time on the show, which I deeply,

876
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: deeply appreciate. And it just shows to me that your

877
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: era of tech stuff is going to be phenomenal because

878
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: you're going to have elements in place that I simply

879
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: felt unable to do, and you're going to be able

880
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: to have a collaborative relationship with your audience. And while

881
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: I feel like my era of tech stuff was more

882
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: almost more like a lecture in the sense that I

883
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: was bringing stuff that I found interesting and then synthesizing

884
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: the information and communicating it to the audience, but it

885
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: was very one way. It was very rare that I

886
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: would get feedback because I just didn't make it easy

887
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: for people to talk to me. And now that I

888
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: am no longer the host, I can complete my plan

889
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 1: and move out into the woods. I found a really

890
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: nice ditch, just a little bit of a fixer upper.

891
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 3: Can you get Wi Fi and a ditch?

892
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: Now you cannot? And that's why I'm happy, No but

893
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: no more. Seriously, I'm so enthusiastic about where the show

894
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: is going. Your work speaks for itself, both of you.

895
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you've done incredible work in the past. Like

896
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: for my listeners who are unfamiliar, look it up. There

897
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: is a library a phenomenal work in are now hosts

898
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: of tech stuff in their background. You will not be disappointed.

899
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: You will find things that are heartbreaking and fascinating and joyful,

900
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: like the entire spectrum of human experience is represented in

901
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: the work you guys have made, and for that to

902
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: be the backbone of tech Stuff moving forward, I couldn't

903
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: be more excited and I couldn't be more optimistic to

904
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: bring it back to that perspective about the future of

905
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: the show and that you'll be having this conversation, ongoing

906
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: conversation with the audience is phenomenal. This is why I

907
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: feel confident saying tech stuff's going to reach heights that

908
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: it couldn't have because I ran up against my physical

909
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 1: limitations as a host, Like as much as I possibly

910
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: could do, I was doing and I could not do

911
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: more and the show needed more. And you guys are

912
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: able to do that. So I'm really excited about that.

913
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: Well, thank you Johnson. It means the world coming from you.

914
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 2: And and yeah, I mean, we're we're, we're. It's having

915
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 2: having two of us is great. I think we really

916
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: encourage each other and so we do annoy each other,

917
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: but we were why Actually, one of our listeners on

918
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 2: Sleepwalkers compared in a very flattering comparison. He said, Sleepwalkers

919
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 2: is like a Shelock Combs mystery theater in terms of

920
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: kind of looking at these technology things and taking a

921
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: kind of really inquisitive approach. And I told Cara about this,

922
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: and you immediately said, Sharlock Combs is not a colp.

923
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 3: And I said, well, he was a consultant for Scotland

924
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 3: Yard Detective. And I think that the point being is that,

925
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 3: like we are not experts, you know, specifically not experts.

926
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 3: And I think Oz is probably more of the Sherlock

927
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 3: and I'm definitely more of the Watson, which is not

928
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 3: to say that I'm going to narrate Oz's lived experience,

929
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 3: although maybe who knows, gould be fun. I have an

930
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 3: American accent, but no, I think for us, it's about

931
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 3: what we have to hope that what we think is

932
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 3: interesting will sort of act as a filter to the audience.

933
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 3: And in that way we are I mean not to

934
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 3: be sort of self aggrandizing it. In that way, we

935
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 3: are sort of detectives because we have these big questions

936
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 3: that we want answers to and assume that because we

937
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 3: want answers to them, that other people are going to

938
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 3: want answers to them. And in that way you can

939
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 3: also be you know, both optimistic and suspicious.

940
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 2: You know, I think I think I think that's right.

941
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we come to this, you know,

942
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 2: somewhat as outsiders in the same way that you did originally, Jonathan, Right,

943
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of tech journalism we talked

944
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 2: about like clickbait headlines, like there is a reward system

945
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,720
Speaker 2: that comes with hyping tech, and there is a reward

946
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: system that comes with doomsday headlines. Right, The reward system

947
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 2: around like which I think white podcast needs the perfect

948
00:48:56,239 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 2: medium around like consistently asking you know, interesting questions or

949
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 2: trying to ask interesting questions and answering them with the

950
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: most relevant people in a balanced way. Like it doesn't

951
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 2: lend itself to like social media based journalism. I think

952
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: it does lend itself to audio based journalism.

953
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 3: So you know, we say slow food, slow news, but.

954
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 2: We but we also you know, we don't. We don't

955
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: take the responsibility lightly. Also, Jonathan, we don't take your

956
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: generosity and grace lightly. One of my favorite media stories, Karen, Jonathan,

957
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: do you know this one about jay Leno hiding in

958
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 2: the closet? So I think when this, I mean that

959
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 2: may be not true, So you know, potentially, please Park

960
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 2: spare me exactly. But I'm pretty sure that when when

961
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: they were looking at bringing on Conan, jay Leno actually

962
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: hid in a closet of a conference room to h

963
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 2: to hear the deliberations and try.

964
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 3: And to overhear the conversation.

965
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: Exactly and try and make sure that the trans I

966
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: can't remember exactly what it was. He was not a gracious,

967
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 2: graciously passing the baton in the way that in the

968
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 2: way that you are, Johnson, So thank you.

969
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: Well, and I mean again, like, if it weren't for

970
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: the fact that you both have proven yourself time and

971
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,399
Speaker 1: time again with an incredible work. I mean like, I'm

972
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: talking to award winning journalists here, I'm I'm award adjacent.

973
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 1: So so I am fine with generously passing the baton

974
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,320
Speaker 1: because I feel that it's in very good hands. And

975
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: and karas you were saying, you know, the approach of

976
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: talking about things you find interesting in the hopes that

977
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: the audience find it interesting. That's always been my approach

978
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: as well, and I think it works because the worst

979
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: thing that can happen is you talk about something because

980
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: you feel that you're compelled to talk about it because

981
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: wagging the yeah again. Listeners are smart. They will know

982
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: immediately if you're not actually engaged with the material or interested,

983
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 1: or even have any inter questions to ask about it.

984
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: They'll know immediately. Even if you're able to mask it,

985
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: they'll suss it out. So being able to say, this

986
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: is something I'm really excited about and you can tell

987
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: I'm excited about it, and now I'm going to take

988
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: what I've learned, like I said, synthesize it presented to

989
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: you have a conversation with someone else who might have

990
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: a completely different point of view than I do, and

991
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: then we'll see where the conversation goes. To me, that's

992
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: like the heart of what tech Stuff started. As you know,

993
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: from twenty and eight to twenty fourteen, it was a

994
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: two host show, and I feel like this in some

995
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: ways is getting back to the roots, but with much

996
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: more qualified journalists taking the part behind.

997
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 3: I would say, just with very different stories. Although I

998
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 3: mean you were really at the forefront of a lot

999
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 3: of this stuff. I mean, now it's you know, falling

1000
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 3: off the trees sing.

1001
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 2: I mean, that's exactually right. I mean tech stuff when

1002
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 2: you started was like a kind of somewhat niche topic area,

1003
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 2: and now it's like the architecture, the infrastructure which we

1004
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: all are plugged into. And I know you've done this

1005
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: thing where you've kind of talked about each year in

1006
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: tech since you've been doing the show and kind of

1007
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 2: some of the highlights. But I guess on a more

1008
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 2: like personal level, like what's the journey been, what is

1009
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: some of the highlights been, and how have you seen

1010
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: technology go from like a product to a system kind

1011
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: of firsthand?

1012
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's part of a larger social conversation too, right,

1013
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: because from the same perspective, you could say, like the

1014
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: things that were once associated with being a geek or

1015
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,919
Speaker 1: a nerd, like back in the eighties, where that would

1016
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: be a pejorative our mainstream, right, Like if you like

1017
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: superheroes when I was a kid, then you were that

1018
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: geek who liked superheroes. If you like superheroes, now you're

1019
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: someone who just goes to the cinema, right, because nine

1020
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: movies out of ten are superhero movies.

1021
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1022
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: So I think it was a change that was gradual

1023
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: enough where it's hard to like put a finger on

1024
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: exactly when the tipping point was. But I would argue

1025
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: Steve jobs decline in health and then his passing was

1026
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 1: probably a real indicator because here was somebody who in

1027
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: the seventies would have been considered a geeky co founder

1028
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: of a personal computer company, back when we didn't even

1029
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 1: know that personal computers could be a viable business. Like

1030
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: that might have just, you know, imploded on itself if

1031
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: it hadn't been for a lot of people doing very

1032
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: creative things and a hobbyist community that kept it alive

1033
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: until it can find its feet. Then you get down

1034
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: to like two thousand and nine where you start having

1035
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: mainstream media following Steve jobs because he's having these sabbaticals

1036
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: from work and he's being very secretive about his health.

1037
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,399
Speaker 1: And then twenty eleven, of course, when he passed away,

1038
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: and it was huge news, and it was reinforcing the

1039
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: idea that Apple had managed to make things that could

1040
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 1: have just been stuff for executives and geeks into an

1041
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: item that everybody wanted, like starting with the iPod, actually

1042
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: arguably starting with the iMac, but then the iPod definitely

1043
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: becoming that mainstream consumer product once you get past the

1044
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: Mac only days of the first two generations to the iPhone,

1045
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,919
Speaker 1: which really opened up the doors to the point where

1046
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: even the iPad, something that people like me I talk

1047
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 1: about all the time. I dismissed the iPad because no

1048
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: one had made a tablet computer that anyone wanted, Like

1049
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: there were tablet computers, but nobody outside of specific jobs

1050
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: like in nursing or whatever, we're using them. I give

1051
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: Apple a hard time. I'm not an Apple person, but

1052
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 1: at the same time, I can't think of any other

1053
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: company that was as responsible for making tech into this sexy,

1054
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: mainstream consumer idea than Apple. I mean, arguably, social networks

1055
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: kind of did that for the web because they made

1056
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: initially they made it easy for you to connect with

1057
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: your friends or if you were a Facebook, to rate

1058
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: the attractiveness of your student colleagues. Let's never forget that, y'all.

1059
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: Let's never forget that Facebook started off as a way

1060
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 1: for dude bros. To say how hot they found their

1061
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: female colleagues at school.

1062
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 3: And then swayed the outcome of an election. Very interesting. Yeah,

1063
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 3: the double edged sword.

1064
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: I think just keeping in mind where people came from

1065
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: is always a good idea. Not to say that people

1066
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: can't change, but just you know, sometimes you know that

1067
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 1: you get at the heart of who someone is. But yeah,

1068
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,919
Speaker 1: I think those would be the big things I would

1069
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: point at as the stuff that stands out to me

1070
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: was that Apple kind of forging this new appreciation of technology,

1071
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: which is phenomenal. If you look at Apple in the

1072
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: mid nineties, that company was in danger of going out

1073
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: of business. Yeah, so for it to go from that

1074
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 1: to becoming the definer, the style maker, if you will,

1075
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: of tech, Yeah, phenomenal story. And then flip side the growth,

1076
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: the consolidation, the failure in several cases of social networks.

1077
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,919
Speaker 1: Those would be the two big things that just leap

1078
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: to my mind. If I were to sit down and

1079
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 1: think about it for forty five minutes, I'd probab they

1080
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: come back to you with like an eight page long

1081
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,399
Speaker 1: list of stuff you know, I love. Like we mentioned VR, Kara,

1082
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: you mentioned VR earlier, and I laughed because you talked

1083
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: about the embrace or the the whether a VR is

1084
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 1: falling short, whether it's actually getting traction, because I remember

1085
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 1: those conversations again in the early nineties the first time.

1086
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, tried to make it, you know, so good time.

1087
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 3: And I mean that's the thing. Some of these things

1088
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 3: are cyclical, you know, and that they don't work, and

1089
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 3: then it comes back around when the technology gets better

1090
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 3: around they see if people will adopt them again.

1091
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: They might get rebranded, they might get you know, a

1092
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: new new code of pain on. But it's the same idea,

1093
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: like Apple Vision. Apple Vision, I still haven't tried one.

1094
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: I mean in there, I hate the eyes on the outside.

1095
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 3: It is very weird. It's very wally. Yeah, yeah, it's

1096
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 3: very strange.

1097
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: It makes me think of the first time I wore

1098
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: the Google glass out to friends of mine. Everyone was

1099
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: suddenly visibly uncomfortable around me because I was wearing a

1100
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 1: headset that everyone knew. It had a camera, and it

1101
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: had a microphone and had a screen, and so that

1102
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 1: immediately made people uncomfortable. And I thought, how interesting, because

1103
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: everyone in this place has a device in their pocket,

1104
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: has all of these elements all the time. But because

1105
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm wearing mine on my face, that's what's making them uncomfortable. Interesting.

1106
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 3: Well, it's because Apple designed it. That's fine.

1107
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: If they designed the thing in the they designed the

1108
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: thing on my face, they'd be like, oh, well this

1109
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: is cool. But all this is really doing is just

1110
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: drag it to your face. Come on.

1111
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 2: I think Apple got a gotta find recently because of

1112
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 2: Siri listening to private conversations. I think it was like

1113
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 2: ninety five million bucks, which which is like the equivalent

1114
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 2: of the two million dollar fine Jet Blue got for

1115
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 2: being consistently late. It's like, guys, this is like.

1116
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 3: The Air or the Jordan fine where Michael Jordan was

1117
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 3: fined every time he wore his sneakers and he covered it.

1118
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he covered it.

1119
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I know. If you'd just shaken a couch

1120
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: over an Apple, it would cover that, but yeah, and

1121
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: then it ends up going back into that concern people

1122
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: had with smart speakers, right, anything that has a smart

1123
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: speaker in it, like or in my phone. For example,

1124
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: I have an Android phone, and if a song is

1125
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: playing and the phone recognizes it, it'll tell you, you know,

1126
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: what the song title and who's singing it, just like

1127
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: if you were using an app like Shazam. But it

1128
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: does it automatically, which immediately raises the question of wait,

1129
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: that means that the phone's listening even when I'm not

1130
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: actively using it. What else is it doing when it's listening,

1131
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: and those questions like you can be told again and again,

1132
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: oh well, nothing's being sent. You know, it's all native

1133
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,919
Speaker 1: to the phone. It's not actually consulting the cloud or whatever.

1134
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: But you're still thinking, well, yeah, but it could, right

1135
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: because obviously it's doing something like that now even if

1136
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: it's native on the phone, so it could do the

1137
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: things you're saying it's not doing. You're just telling me

1138
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: that you pinky swear it's not doing those things. And

1139
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:49,919
Speaker 1: whenever those stories pop up, I think, man, you're making

1140
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: my job so much harder. I don't want to be

1141
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: the person immediately jumping to conspiracies, but if all the

1142
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: technology facilitates it, it's hard.

1143
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 2: To avoid unless we forget you to give stuff they

1144
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 2: don't want you to know, or his name.

1145
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I did, I did? That was that was

1146
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: a fun story too. Yeah. Stuff you Should Know was

1147
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: already out and we were working on a new podcast

1148
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 1: that was gonna cover fringe theories, conspiracy theories, that kind

1149
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: of thing, and they were workshopping ideas for the name,

1150
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: and I said, why don't you just call it stuff

1151
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 1: they don't want you to know? Because we already have

1152
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: Stuff you should Know? And everyone's like, oh, that's brilliant.

1153
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: And to this day Ben Bolin, who's one of the hosts,

1154
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: whenever this comes up, he's like, yeah, if we had

1155
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: thought about it for a second, we would say, shut up, Jonathan,

1156
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 1: that name's too long. We'll never put on any you know,

1157
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: the acronym doesn't make any sense. It has to be

1158
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: an initials. Yeah. So so with great power comes something,

1159
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: something is what we learn.

1160
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 3: That's right, all right, y'all?

1161
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: This conversation ran long. Who would have thunk a conversation

1162
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: with me would go long? And that means we need

1163
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: to take another quick break to think our sponsors, but

1164
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: we'll be right back to conclude our conversation about tech Stuff,

1165
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: and you want to stick around for the end, folks.

1166
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: This has been an epic episode, which is fitting for

1167
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: my last one. But what I want to walk away

1168
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: with in this episode is again, tech Stuff continues. You know,

1169
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: it started with me and Chris Poullette in two thousand

1170
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: and eight. Chris left around twenty thirteen early, you know,

1171
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: twenty twelve at the end of twenty twelve, and Lauren

1172
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: came on until twenty fourteen. You know, we each had

1173
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: our own impact in forging what the show is. To me,

1174
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: this is going to be the exciting future of the show,

1175
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: arguably one of the most transformative. But at the same time,

1176
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: from talking to you, it sounds to me like it's

1177
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: really getting at the heart of what the show was

1178
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: all about from the very beginning, and I could not

1179
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: ask for better Stewards, So thank you for coming onto

1180
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: the show to talk about it, and I cannot wait

1181
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: to listen to Friday's episode.

1182
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 2: Thank you. Jonathan be going from fans and listeners to hosts,

1183
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 2: and you said it was your last episode, I would

1184
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 2: say it was your last episode as host.

1185
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: I would like to have you as a guest. As

1186
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 1: a guest, boy, you're not gonna like it because uh,

1187
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: my writer is super long, so many demands for low

1188
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: sodium snacks you want and believe now.

1189
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 2: No, but thank you seriously, and and and thank you

1190
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 2: to anyone on everyone listening to for giving us a

1191
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 2: chance as a new host, and please do right into

1192
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 2: tech Stuff Podcast at gmail dot com with any with

1193
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: any feedback, because I think the most important thing for

1194
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: me and Kara is to honor your time and we're grateful,

1195
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 2: we're great.

1196
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 3: Fans forgiving the ways in which technology intersects with your life.

1197
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 3: I mean not I don't want any feedback personally.

1198
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: What I want to know is we are one and

1199
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: the same.

1200
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 3: No, I want, I want to know you know the ways.

1201
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 3: I mean. I think ring camera technology is one of

1202
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 3: my favorite Just the way that that has unleashed itself

1203
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 3: onto the world is some of just the great comedy

1204
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 3: and great darkness that we have in our world. And

1205
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 3: I use that as an example because I think that

1206
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 3: people listening to this show who already hopefully think in

1207
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 3: this way, or maybe don't yet and will in the future.

1208
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 3: You know, have plenty of day to day interactions that

1209
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 3: you know should be shared, and you know things that

1210
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 3: they're thinking in terms of how their life intersects with

1211
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 3: technology on a daily basis that I think sometimes we

1212
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 3: just won't think of.

1213
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think anytime anyone out there has an interaction

1214
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: with technology or something related to tech and you're left

1215
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: with a question like why is it like this?

1216
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 3: Right?

1217
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: How did it get this way? Right? To textuff podcast

1218
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com and ask your question, because that

1219
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: will launch an investigation and conversation that will be so

1220
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: entertaining and informative. It will not only answer your question,

1221
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: but it will get you excited about other elements of

1222
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 1: tech and critical thinking. Like I said, it's not just

1223
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: for technology, that's for every part of your life. The

1224
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: more often you start to engage that skill, the better

1225
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 1: you will get at it. It will always be something

1226
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: you have to engage. Can't just count on it because

1227
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: like I certainly have fallen victim to more than a

1228
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: few japes, let us say, because of a failure to

1229
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 1: apply my own critical thinking. But yeah, I absolutely loved

1230
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: all of that. And again, you think of a question,

1231
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 1: send it their way because it's going to be a

1232
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 1: wild a wild ride and a fascinating look into technology

1233
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: and how it impacts culture. I also love that you

1234
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 1: look at it that way. Specifically, I've always said technology

1235
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: does not exist in a vacuum. The one criticism I

1236
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: would receive that I never really paid much mind to was, hey,

1237
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: you're bringing too much you know, politics or culture into

1238
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: this conversation. Like, well, yeah, because tech doesn't exist on

1239
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: its own. Tech exists because we built it, and we

1240
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: built it to do something for us, So we have

1241
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 1: to take that relationship into consider it or else what

1242
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 1: are we doing? Like I guess I could tell you

1243
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: how a circuit board works on a very technical level,

1244
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 1: but you can go take a class in that. That's

1245
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: not an interesting story. So that to me is again

1246
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: the heart of what I tried to do. So I'm

1247
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 1: always happy to be a guest. I will I promise

1248
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: I'll be as gracious as possible and hopefully less verbose.

1249
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 3: Never Thank you, Jonathan, Thank you so much.

1250
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what editors are for. Well, y'all, thank you

1251
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: so much. It has been my honor to host this

1252
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 1: show for sixteen and a half years. The day this

1253
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: episode goes out January eighth, like I started June eighth,

1254
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight January eighth, twenty twenty five. What

1255
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,919
Speaker 1: a heck of a run. It has been fantastic. You'll

1256
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:53,439
Speaker 1: hear my voice again, I'm sure. And usually I would

1257
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: say at the end of an episode, I look forward

1258
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: to talking to you again really soon, but I guess

1259
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: today I'm just going to say, sure, has been nice

1260
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: talking to you. Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For

1261
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1262
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.