1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You from how stupp 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and this episode on romantic comedies 4 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: is kicking off our summer series all about rom Coms. 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: I know you guys were so excited about the suggestions, 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: so I'm I'm hoping you're all listening yes, because we've 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: got a lot to talk about this intro episode. It's 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: gonna cover a lot of ground. It's gonna cover the 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: history and evolution of romantic comedies, where they came from, 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: the role that censorship played Shakespeare. We've got it all. 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: Are we gonna have a meat cute somehow? Yeah? Well 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: every day is a meat cute. Every day stuff Mom 13 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: never told you? Um, yeah, we have a lot of 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: ground to cover. And I gotta say, Caroline, this was 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: some of the most fun stuff I've never told you 16 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: research totally ever because I got to just watch some 17 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: rom comsat and seen a ever or be not a 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, so I watched for the first time 19 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: ever to prepare for this. Um His Girl Friday fabulous, 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: starring the dashing Carrie Grant and one of my faves 21 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: Rosalind Russell. Yes, but I fell asleep because my brain 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: was too tuckered out with all of that fast paced, 23 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: quick witted, sparkling dialogue. Oh yeah, the old screwball comedy 24 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: back and Forth. It is a super screwball comedy and 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: I loved it, and like you spend the whole time 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: being like, I love that they're at odds because that 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: is such a rom com troupe, the Man and the 28 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: Woman at Odds, UM, and I loved it my favorite. 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: Some of my favorites, though, are I would have to say, 30 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: like high Fidelity. I love Sliding Doors with Gwyneth Paltrow. UM. 31 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: And if if you're looking at like shows not just movies, 32 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: I think You're the Worst is a great example of 33 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: like a new age romantic comedy because it is like 34 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: two people being terrible but they are hilarious and in love. UM. 35 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: I watched for this episode bringing up Baby last Night, UM, 36 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 1: which is another one of my faiths for listeners who 37 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: don't know UM. I watched a lot of old movies 38 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: as a kid because it was mostly the only thing 39 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: I was allowed to watch. UM, and I had so 40 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: little appreciation for Katherine Hepburn when I was growing up, 41 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: I was all about Audrey Hepburn. I was like Catherine 42 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: Hupburn or whatever. But oh my gosh, she is fantastic 43 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: and Bringing Up Baby is one of her earliest films 44 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: and she plays this zany heiress whom Carrie Grant, who's 45 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: playing a zoologist in this episode, a zany zoologists. He's 46 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: not zany at all. No, he's just like trying to 47 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: get her out of his life. But Katherine Hepburn's character 48 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: was like, no, I'm gonna marry you, and I'm gonna 49 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: marry you. I knew it when I first saw you. 50 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: So she just like bamboos all him into essentially having 51 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: to um stay with her the whole time. And I 52 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: don't want to spoil it. Um, So that was fantastic 53 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 1: to watch. I also went back and watched Stuff Mom 54 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: Never Told You. Fans is number one favorite rom com 55 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: based on the very unscientific Facebook survey that we took 56 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: a while back. Now, um just asking folks what their 57 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: favorite rom com was, and the one that came up 58 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: the most in a close, very close to love actually, 59 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: which was number two, was You've Got Mail that I 60 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,119 Speaker 1: think it's so funny. Yeah, especially going back and watching 61 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: You've Got Mail in. Well, that's dude roommates favorite rom com. 62 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: Oh wow, why does he love it so much? You've 63 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: Got Me? I don't know, but he like unabashedly. I 64 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: mean he jokes about it, but like he loves that movie. Well, 65 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: I gotta say Tom Hanks is very charming in it. 66 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: You know when I watched that movie when it came 67 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: out years and years and years ago, now twenty years ago, 68 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Um, I hated it because I was 69 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: just like, you're tricking her. You're the big bad Barnes 70 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: and Noble guy. And I mean, obviously I know that 71 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: it's based on the Shop around the Corner, which is 72 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: an older movie. Um, but like you're the big bad 73 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 1: bookstore guy who is bamboozling Meg Ryan and her little 74 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: local bookstore. Support your local bookstore. There's always so much 75 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: bamboozling happening in rom coms, so much deceit. Seriously, Yeah no, 76 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: that is literally when you read academic works on rom coms, 77 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: of which there are some, uh, they talk about the 78 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: masquerade or the deceit as being one of the major tropes, 79 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 1: plot devices, what have you that drives the plot forward. Um. 80 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: Also I gotta give a quick shout out and You've 81 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: got mailed to Parker Posey. Forgot she was in it. 82 00:04:54,600 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: She plays Tom Hanks's girlfriend and she's terriffed there because 83 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: she's just she's Parker Posey. I mean, what else you 84 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: need to say. By the way, listeners, if you don't 85 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: already follow Parker Posey on Instagram and do it, oh 86 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: I don't because it's bizarre. It's just her snapchat. But 87 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: it's really funny. Um. But yeah, I mean like You've 88 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: Got Mail though, really crystallizes so many of the common 89 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: elements of more modern rom coms because Nora fron, Meg Ryan, 90 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks and her hair and her hair. Um. Also, 91 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: I love a Greg Canear. Oh yeah, he would show up. 92 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: And I don't know if Sabrina. I guess Sabrina is 93 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: considered a rom com, the remake and the original. Um, 94 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: but yeah, it was. It was really interesting to go 95 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: back and watch that, and also in terms of the 96 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: deceit and masquerading that's so common in rom coms, sitting 97 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: there and being like, oh, now Facebook, would Facebook would 98 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: take care of all that? Oh no, she can google him? No, 99 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: she was just Google. Yeah. I mean smartphones really just 100 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: ruin all romance in movies. Yeah, whether it's like an 101 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: action movie with kidnapping or what like, Yeah, ruin everything. 102 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: But those fantastical worlds where Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks 103 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: and you've got males somehow would not figure out who 104 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: each other is. You know, you have all of these 105 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: plot devices that requires some magical thinking A lot of 106 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: times when we watch rom coms. And I was listening 107 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: to Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast UM about rom coms 108 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: in preparation for this podcast, and one of them mentioned 109 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: a piece at Mindy Kaling wrote a while back UM 110 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: in the New Yorker, and when she says, I regard 111 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: romantic comedies as a subgenre of sci fi in which 112 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: the world operates according to different rules than my regular 113 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: human world. For me, there's no difference between Ripley from 114 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: Alien and any Katherine Heigel character. And I had never 115 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: thought about it before, but it's so true totally. Oh absolutely, 116 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: I yes, I have long considered romantic comedy, specifically of 117 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: that like nineties flavor um to be fairy tales. Oh 118 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: Sleepless in Seattle. Oh yeah, I mean yes, when you 119 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: go back and watch I did watch Sleepless in Seattle 120 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: like a year ago probably, and was like, are you 121 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: kidding me with this? I mean, if someone going to 122 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: tell you, Okay, so a woman here's a boy on 123 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: the radio and g by virtue of hearing the boys story, 124 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: falls in love with the dad and then kind of 125 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: stalks simpathies but works out and then they fall in love. 126 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: How many rom coms are just flat out stalking god, 127 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: A lot of of consented lines that are, yeah, you're 128 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: not you're not wrong, And I mean it's interesting to watch. 129 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: I think that rom com evolution because we are out 130 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: of the age of the Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan, Julia 131 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: Roberts kind of deal, Hugh Grant, Hugh Grant, Yes, thank you. 132 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: He have the bumbling Grant era, the whole Matthew McConaughey, 133 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: Kate Hudson's stuff. And we've moved into what I think 134 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: is a really interesting era for romantic comedy. And I 135 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: was trying to come up with some examples of modern 136 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: romantic comedy, and I act accidentally side note, kept just 137 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: coming up with like self romantic comedy, where like the 138 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: woman learned something about herself, but it's like real quirky 139 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: and funny along the way, like Francis Ha, have you 140 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: seen that movie? I have one of my favorite movies. 141 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: I think it's precious and it's like women's relationships and 142 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: with their bestie and with themselves and growing and all 143 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: this stuff. And I kept writing those down in my notes, 144 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: is like, this is my favorite rong. Oh it's it's 145 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: not a rom comp okay, Um, but I love. The 146 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: one movie I did keep coming back to was Obvious 147 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: Child with Jenny Slate, where it's you've got the the 148 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: tropes of meat cute and in a way and uh, 149 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: a little bit of deception and masquerading and awkwardness and 150 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: uncomfortable nous um and you know, boy gets girl or 151 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: girl gets boy. Uh, all framed around an abortion and 152 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: and it's a fantastic movie. And it starts out with 153 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: maybe one of my favorite jokes in the world. If 154 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, you really need to see it. 155 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: We can't really say it on the podcast. Um, so yes, 156 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 1: see Obvious Child asap. Um. You also noted Robbia Patel's 157 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: Meet the Patel's, which is another one I watched this weekend. Um. 158 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: You can ps get a lot of rom com watching 159 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: done when you're making wedding crafts. So that was very helpful. 160 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: So get married, Yes, we'll just get engaged because after 161 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: after you get married and you have no time. I'm 162 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: assuming I don't know. Um. And I've been wanting to 163 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: watch Meet the Patel's for a long time because I 164 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: had heard rave reviews about it um and also because 165 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: it's told documentary style UM. And it was really well done. 166 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: I mean it was a com also through a completely 167 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: different culture, obviously through an Indian culture, um, that we 168 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: do not see in Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson films. Right. 169 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: And also it won the top prize at the Traverse City, 170 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: Michigan Film Festival. What up Northern Michigan. Um. But speaking 171 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: of Matthew McConaughey, you know, he's faced a lot of 172 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: cocked eyebrows basically for his crappy rom com I'm gonna 173 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: say it, I'm sorry for a lot of his really 174 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: terrible rom coms that he's been in and leaving those 175 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: behind in favor of starring and things like True Detective 176 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: and Dallas Buyer's Club, things that have a lot of 177 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: dramatic clout. And he basically he told this interviewer. I 178 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: think it was for Variety that he's sick of this 179 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: then and now narrative in terms of his career, and 180 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: he says, because the thing behind it that people assume 181 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: is that rom coms aren't critical hits and that they're easy, 182 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: and they're not easy. It's a hard challenge, he said, 183 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: to make it work, to tell a story you've seen 184 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: time and time again that you know what the ending 185 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: is going to be. And he's right, but it's like, 186 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: I just by the time, I don't know if it 187 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: was my age or if it was just Matthew McConaughey 188 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: and Kate Hudson that I couldn't take anymore, but I 189 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: definitely hit a point where it's like I cannot want. 190 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: Maybe it's Jennifer Lopez to a lovers. Great actors cannot 191 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: take her romantic comedies, but they do. They come off 192 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: as so dumb and saccharin and easy to dismiss because 193 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: they're just so tropy and easy to predict, and they're 194 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: so coded. You know that if a movie has Kate 195 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: Hudson and Matthew McConaughey and you know they're going to 196 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: end up together, there's no drama. But then it wouldn't 197 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: be a romantic comedy if there were. Well, it's a 198 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: very specific genre. I gotta tell you that if Paddle 199 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: is a guy in ten Days just happens to be 200 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: on a screen in front of me on a weekend, 201 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: I will watch it. I really enjoy I mean like, 202 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: and that is it is super tropy, of course, and 203 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: of course you know that there's going to be some conflict, 204 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: they'll lose each other and then they'll on each other again. 205 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: But there is a comfort in the formulaic nature of 206 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: it too. Um. But all of those things that you 207 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: just noted in terms of how predictable they are and 208 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: how much they rely on gender stereotypes, and how even 209 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: all the rom coms that are set in New York, 210 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: everyone lives in impossibly huge apartments and they're all in 211 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: like publishing and marketing and newspapers and magazines. Oh yeah, 212 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: I love that Kate Hudson is like a magazine writer 213 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: and apparently makes like well over six figures um to 214 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: have the apartment and the wardrobe that she does. And 215 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: because of those kind of sci fi rules, as Mindy 216 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: Kaley describes them, they are easily dismissed, And in our 217 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: conversation about this, we're going to be referring to tomorrow 218 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: Jeffers McDonald's book Romantic Comedy, Boy Meets Girl, meets Genre. 219 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: That's right, And only five romantic comedies have won the 220 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: Academy Award for Best Picture. And I'm honestly surprised it's five. 221 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: It's that many. Um, it happened one night from thirty four, 222 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: which is basically cited as like the o G romantic 223 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: comedy that started at the screwball genre, which of course 224 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: we'll talk about more and more in depth later. Uh, 225 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: you can't take it with you. Nineteen sixties, The Apartment seven, 226 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: Annie Hall, and Shakespeare in Love, which I love. Still 227 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: never seen Shakespeare and looks really good. It is really 228 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: good and and obviously so is Annie Hall. And unfortunately 229 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: I haven't seen the other three. The Apartment is fantastic. Yeah, 230 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: it'll um, it'll throw you for a loop in a 231 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: good way. Um. And of course they all follow the 232 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: same basic formula, the same basic heteronormative formula of boy 233 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: meets girl, boy loses girl, and boy does everything that 234 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: he can or vice versa to regain the girl. Um. 235 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: Things that tend to happen, include weddings derailed at the 236 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: last minute. I mean, really, if you count up all 237 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: the west wasted wedding money, just millions of dollars didn't 238 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: occur to me until I was an adult. But Chief Um, 239 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: you also have the masquerade, as you mentioned, and Um, 240 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: the embarrassing gesture, which is essentially like submitting to humiliation 241 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: in order to prove your love, like I'm putting everything 242 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: out there for you, like what a fool I am. 243 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: I'm standing in front of your house with a boom 244 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: box on my shoulder, right, And again that goes back 245 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: to the sci fi nature of so many rom coms, 246 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: because if you're standing up, if I've rejected you and 247 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: you're standing outside of my house with a boombox, I'm 248 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: calling nine one one any who. And of course, another 249 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: element of the formula is the meat cute, which is 250 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: basically the two characters meet in a way that forecasts 251 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: their union. And Billy Wilder, the twentieth century screenwriter director 252 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: uh is one of the foremost proponents of the cute. Yeah, 253 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: he told Um an interviewer at the Paris Review, that 254 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: at the time, he and other screenwriters would just keep 255 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: notebooks of meat cutes. Anytime a meat cute idea would 256 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: come to mind, they'd be like, oh, that's another one, 257 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: because you had to have a meat cute. Well yeah, 258 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: And in case you're like, I'm still not clear on 259 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: what a meat cute is, here's an example from a 260 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: Wilder script, Bluebeard's Eighth Wife, features the couple first crossing 261 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: paths in a department store where the guy wants to 262 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: buy just the top of the pajamas and the woman 263 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: wants to buy just the bottom. I mean, how often 264 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: does that happen to you? Care? Oh, my god, all 265 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: the time when I'm shopping in the men's section of 266 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: the department store for pajamas, for pajamas. Um. And you 267 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: also see very familiar conflicts that tend to arise. You 268 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: have the whole parent child conflict, which is um super common, 269 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: whether it's parents you know, disapproving of relationship or parents 270 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: just generally being disappointed in their children, are being overly 271 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: um ambitious in terms of what they want for their kids. 272 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: And then you have conflicts with courting men and women 273 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: that struggle to find common ground, and the opposition of 274 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: the gender cultures. I mean, I think, uh, how to 275 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: lose a guy. Inton Days plays that up so much. 276 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: It's like you bring over tampons to a man's bathroom 277 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: and he'll throw you out mid intercourse. But one thing 278 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: that McDonald notes about this whole gender based conflict thing 279 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: that is so trophy in rom comms is that the 280 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: dual protagonist perspective actually does offer really great characters on 281 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: the men's side and the women's side. So it's obviously 282 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: you have romantic comedies that are more from the woman's 283 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: perspective or more from the man's. But when you have 284 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: a Sleepless in Seattle case where it is like Tom 285 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: Hanks is the main character and so is Meg Ryan, 286 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: it gives you that chance to see how men and 287 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: women can both be strong and weak, can be trophy 288 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: masculine and trophy feminine, but can also go against those 289 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: gender norms. And she points out great traditional rom com 290 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: actors like Carrie Grant, James Stewart and Hugh Grant who 291 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: are allowed to be and expected to be handsome and 292 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: strong and elegant and witty, but they also want intimacy 293 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: and they're ready to laugh at themselves. And then of 294 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: course you've got the classic women like Katherine Hepburn, Meg 295 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: Ryan and Julia Roberts, who are obviously beautiful and playful, 296 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: but they can also be aggressive and assertive and sassy 297 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: and independent. And it goes to the Yen and the Yang, 298 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: the uh renee Zellwigger, Tom Cruise. You complete me. And 299 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: that's a byproduct of having these two great characters, even 300 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: if they do exhibit a lot of trophy gross stuff 301 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: that we're sick of, it allows for really well rounded 302 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: characters that essentially serve to complete each other well. And 303 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: it also shows how you portrays these characters as both 304 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: fallible when it comes to love and a lot of 305 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: times they are tripped up by those very gender stereotypes 306 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: that a lot of times rom coms are propping up right, 307 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: But again, like if you maintain the gender conflict throughout 308 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: the whole movie, they might never get together. So you've 309 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: got to like have a way for them to overlap 310 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: their sensibilities so that they can have that happy ending. 311 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: And of course, the central ideology, the central idea driving 312 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: rom coms is the primary importance of the couple, which 313 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: of course traditionally has been white and has been heterosexual. 314 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: Although we did start to see like in the nineties, 315 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: more attempts to include more LGBT storylines, more people of 316 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: color falling in love because who knew it's not just white, 317 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: straight people falling in love in real life. Um. But 318 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: regardless of who is falling in love in these movies, 319 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: monogamy rules the day uh settle in a relationship. Sex 320 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: is at the heart of the rom com because monogamy 321 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: and you know, one partner only relationships stand in for 322 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: basically social stability. Um. But it is interesting. Several of 323 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: the writers that we read to prepare for this episode 324 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: point out that romance, grand romance, and actual relationship stability 325 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: kind of have different goals. So you know, these characters 326 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: are are pursuing and infecting our minds with the drive 327 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: for constant, eternal butterflies in stomach romance, but they're also 328 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: going for marriage and babies eventually, like that's also the goal. 329 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 1: And you know, your traditional long term relationship is not 330 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: always going to be butterflies in the stocks some sometimes 331 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: you're going to fight about the dishwasher or the toilet seat. Hence, 332 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: we don't want to see people mid relationship in rom coms. 333 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: We want to see single people. We want to see 334 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: the conflict in sexual tension, and the anxiety that all 335 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: leads up to the final climax. That's why I love 336 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: the movie to day is it two Days in Paris 337 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: Um where they are mid relationship and they go to 338 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: Paris to see her parents and massive conflict ensues, and 339 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: that's so fascinating to me. I'm so over rom com Troops. 340 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean we're done talking about it, because 341 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: of course we've been talking about gender, but we've been 342 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: talking about gender within the film itself. But the fact 343 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: that rom coms are so strongly associated with female audiences 344 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: is a huge reason that they face a lot of criticism. 345 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: I mean, these movies are marketed to women, and they 346 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: are assumed therefore too largely appeal to women, and so 347 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: it's for these reasons that a lot of scholars and 348 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: critics alike consciously or unconsciously disparage them. It's like the 349 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: whole conversation we had a couple of summers ago about 350 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: Chicklet and how marginalized it as simply because it's marketed 351 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 1: to women well, and female fandom at large, you know, 352 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: like teeny bopper type of stuff. Girls and women being 353 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: dismissed for what they like in pop culture. Um, but 354 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: it's interesting when you think about these plots of these movies, 355 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: it's not like it's only the woman who gets the happy, warm, 356 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: fuzzy fields. The man's getting it too. And it's this 357 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: myth of perfect love that appeals to everyone, not just men, 358 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: not just women, not just straight people. And these narratives 359 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: that we see so often in rom coms demonstrate that 360 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: both the woman and the man have to change and 361 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: adapt to come together basically. And it's interesting that it's again, 362 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: it's not just the woman in the audience who's like, hey, 363 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: you should change to fine love. The man watching the 364 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: rom com is also being presented with these images, whether 365 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: it's Carrie Grant or Hugh Grant or whoever, these you know, 366 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: handsome guys and great apartments who are living these great lives, 367 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: drinking martiniz and whatever, and it's like, here here's an 368 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: image for you to try to aspire to as well. 369 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: So you see, as rom coms evolve from their origins, 370 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: and then especially once you hit the fifties and sixties, 371 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: of like kind of this con slick consumer culture getting 372 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: wrapped up in them as well. Well. If we talk 373 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: about the origins of rom coms as a genre. We 374 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: have to go back before film was invented, before Oscar 375 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,719 Speaker 1: Wilde and Jane austen Um to Shakespeare, because really a 376 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: lot of the rom com formulas that we still see 377 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: today on screen came straight from the Bard. Well yeah, 378 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: and I mean you see, you know, love triangles in 379 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: Midsummer Night's Dream or Twelfth Night, and in Taming of 380 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: the Shrew you see the crude sister who ends up tame. 381 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: It's also what Tim thinks I Hate about You is 382 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: based on bt dew um you see and much of 383 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: You about Nothing, couples ripped apart by scandal and getting 384 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: back together, And I mean that they're total direct ancestors 385 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: to a movie like How to Lose a Guy in 386 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: Ten Days, which is like the entire plot is based 387 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: on deception and getting ripped apart and then getting thrown 388 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: back together, that dramatic irony that Shakespeare was so expert 389 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: at well, and also playing around a lot with status 390 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: and someone ending up with maybe an unexpected person, but 391 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: the right person. So um. One example that Jesse catle 392 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: Over at Hyperbole mentioned was how that happens in both 393 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: Midsummer Night's Dream and also legally blonde. Yeah, and once 394 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: we get into Hollywood, even in the silent era, we 395 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: have rom coms, which are kind of hard to imagine 396 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: silent rom coms, but old Cecil by the Mill was 397 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: making them. You know, who hasn't seen the classic nineteen 398 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: old Wives for New you know, or nineteen nineteens Don't 399 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: Change Your Husband. I love the titles of these films 400 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: because then in n I'm assuming this is a sequel 401 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: to Don't Change Your Husband, DeMille put out why Change 402 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: your Wife? They sound like chapters in a book. Yeah. 403 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: I think was Cecil be the Mill just like working 404 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: out some marital issues through through the camera. I don't know, 405 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: but yeah, these are basically essentially moralistic early rom com 406 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: type films. You also have in Sherlock Junr and Girl 407 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: Shy that follow the Shakespearean meat have conflict and then 408 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: have happy reunion plot device. But as you can imagine, 409 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: the whole silent thing kind of puts the damper on 410 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: the rom comm stuff because you're like watching and you're 411 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: here on all the piano or the organ music, and 412 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, they're having witty dialogue and 413 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: you've gotta wait, wait, wait, and you get the little 414 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: car that like and get out of here, you brute. 415 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: And then it goes on. You're seeing more dialogue and 416 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: she's being you know, roped to a set of train 417 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: tracks and you're like, what's going on and it's like, oh, actually, 418 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: I love you, thanks for saving me. It kind of 419 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: like Screws with the pacing. I would really like Mystery 420 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: Science three thousand with you, but just with silent films. 421 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: I would also like that if anyone wants to sign 422 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: up and start a campaign, that would be great. Um. 423 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: But it was really this, this is a twist, here's 424 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: a plot twist. Listeners. Censorship was really what propelled screwball comedies, 425 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: classic screwball comedies, And this was something that David Denby 426 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: wrote about in The New Yorker. Because of course, sensors 427 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: always existed because people were, you know, worried about the 428 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: effects of film on young people. So the moral standards 429 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: have been around since nineteen two, when the Motion Pictures 430 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: Producers and Distributors Association, which would later become m p 431 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: a A recruited oh Will Hayes as president to administer morals, 432 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: which was at first basically just a verbal agreement with 433 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: producers like, hey, you know, don't do anything that will 434 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: corrupt the minds of the youth. Um. But of course 435 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: with Hayes came to Hayes Code. Yeah. So at first, 436 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: censorship was pretty inconsistent. Things would be banned in some 437 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: cities and not others. But interestingly, of course bands on 438 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: female sexuality we're pretty consistent. You had theoto beras Vamp 439 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: movies band. Anything about adultery was like super taboo. Even 440 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,959 Speaker 1: Margaret Sanger's film Birth Control, which I somehow didn't know existed, 441 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: even though we talked about her a lot in our 442 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: episodes on abortion, that was banned. And in the early thirties, 443 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: post sound, you get a lot of newspaper comedies, gangster flicks, musical's, horror, melodrama, 444 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: things that could really finally take advantage of sound. But 445 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: at this time you also see a lot of movies 446 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: despite the fact that we're having those moral standards, remember 447 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: they're not being consistently applied yet, So you see a 448 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: lot of movies with bad girls and scandal like Gene 449 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: Harlow and The Red Headed Woman as an unstoppable and 450 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: unpunished home wreckerd working from a script by Anita Lose 451 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: By the way you see Miriam Hopkins in the story 452 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,239 Speaker 1: of Temple Drake, she's a woman who lives with a 453 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: gangster before she returns to respectability, and may West in 454 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: a lot of her films where she's the super sexual 455 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: being who took her pick of men. And a lot 456 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: of feminist film critics love this period in film history 457 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: because even though you know, not all portrayals of female 458 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: sexuality are positive and some are exploitive, during this period, 459 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: you still don't see women necessarily having to fit into 460 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: a strict moral pattern or a specific box about how 461 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: to act, and they're not yet being killed off for 462 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: being sexual. But with the Hayze Code comes those super 463 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: strict serds for what could be shown on screen, and 464 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: it really grew out of essentially this group of Catholic 465 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: folks who developed a set of standards that would become 466 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: the official Hayes Code. Prohibited profanity, licentious or suggestive nudity, 467 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: sexual perversions, and rape. And this is also where you 468 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: get married people in the movies sleeping in separate beds, 469 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: because you can't even suggest that even a married man 470 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: and woman might sleep together. And so in ninety three, 471 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: you get the Catholic based legion of decency, which sounds 472 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: either terrifying or lame. I can't really decide um that's 473 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: crusading against Hollywood as a moral threat. At the same 474 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,719 Speaker 1: time that you see women's groups protesting depravity and the 475 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: mp p d A has to review screenplays before they 476 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: go into production. They demand changes, and this is when 477 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: you see the punishment of sexual women of loose women 478 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: basically be officially instituted. This film group adds the practice 479 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: of moral compensation. Basically, sin could be shown, women could 480 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: be living it up sexually, but they have to be punished. 481 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: So the woman who has sex or commits adultery or whatever, 482 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: she's got to drive off a cliff or she's got 483 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: to lose everything. Uh. Films, literally, films in the early 484 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: thirties that had already been made were recut to show 485 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: the woman who basically was like, oh, I had a 486 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: hard life, but I'm happy now, Like she had to 487 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: lose everything. They were like, nope, you got a film 488 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: and Louisa just go off a cliff. Yeah. And so basically, 489 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: once the Hayes Code came into effect, filmmakers had to 490 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: get creative. So this is happening in the mid nineteen thirties, 491 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: and the challenge put to producers, directors, and writers was 492 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: to create sex without sex. Essentially, you had to somehow, 493 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: um depict sexual tension without of course, um igniting the 494 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: ire of the haze code. So this actually produced really 495 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: fantastic results for romantic comedy, and it really led to 496 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: the whole genre of screwball comedies because you get this 497 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: physicality with these early rom coms to where you know, 498 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: you can't really show them in a certainly not in 499 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: a bed together, even like bedrooms are a little bit 500 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: off limits, so sex becomes playful or a lot of dance. 501 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: I mean, if you have seen um films with Rettistaire 502 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: and Ginger Rogers or Gene Kelly and any number of 503 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: the women that he co starred with, their dance numbers 504 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: are essentially sex scenes in a lot of ways, I mean, 505 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: because that's how that's how they woo the woman was 506 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: through you know, tap dancing, which why doesn't that happen 507 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: in real life? Um? And even in the movie Bringing 508 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: a bay Be with Carrie Grant and Katherine Hepburn, which 509 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: came out I believe in nineteen eight I was thinking 510 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: about this when I was watching it, because there's this 511 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: scene where they're in a nightclub and carry Grant steps 512 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: on the back of Katherine Hepburn's gown and it rips 513 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: off the back so her the pent loons are exposed, 514 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, no, no, no, and she finally 515 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,959 Speaker 1: realizes what's happened, and so to get through the restaurant, 516 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: he like, you know, holds her from behind, you know, 517 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: and they like walk in it's a really funny way, 518 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: like two by two um through the restaurant, but they're 519 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: so close there's no room for the Holy Spirit between them, 520 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: not at all. And I was like, oh, there it is. 521 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: They're creating sex without sex. I had no idea that's 522 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: what I was watching. Okay, that's right. And and I 523 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: love the context of this because you know, we've moved 524 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: obviously from the silent era, but you still have those 525 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: people working in Hollywood, and they had been expert at 526 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: communicating comedy silent late, so you had still a lot 527 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: of those uh, silent comedy directors who were so adept 528 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: at weaving in visual comedy. Pratt falls hilarious little moments 529 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: into those films. But you also had a lot of 530 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: that sparkling, quick dialogue that you obviously couldn't have in 531 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: silent films, um being written by both men and women 532 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: from back East, people who were veterans of Broadway, who 533 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: were so skilled at writing that all consuming dialogue that 534 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: apparently can put me to sleep if my brain gets 535 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: too tired watching it. But it did create these great 536 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: speaking roles for women who could carry these films. Oh man, 537 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: like Katherine Hepburn just and also Rosalind Russell were I 538 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: mean so terrific at that just missed machine guns tocato, 539 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know? And Denby credits uh, William 540 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: Powell and Merna Lloyd in The Thin Man and Carrie 541 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: Grant and Catherine Hepburn in y eight Holiday Uh with 542 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: sort of setting the tone, displacing sex with wit, affection 543 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: and style and setting the ball rolling on the era 544 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: of screwball comedy and thank goodness. By the early fifties, 545 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: movies finally get First Amendment protection through a Supreme Court ruling. 546 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: But a lot of the film scholars we read were like, 547 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, I kind of took something away when 548 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: they were when filmmakers were forced to work around these regulations, 549 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: so If we look at the timeline of rom coms 550 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: in Hollywood, the entire genre can be broken down into 551 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: many genres. So in the nineteen twenties and thirties, with 552 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: those earliest rom com talkies, they were really comedies of 553 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: manners that played a lot with status, revolving around relationships 554 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: between people of different social classes, the high Low, and 555 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: one of the films often cited is It Happened One Night, 556 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: four with Clark Gable and Claudette Colbert. And you will 557 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: later see this theme in movies like two Thousand Nins, 558 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: The Proposal and two thousand Ones bridget Gen's Diary, basically 559 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: people of different social classes winding up together and becoming 560 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: better people. Although I could argue that Hugh Grant never 561 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: becomes a better person and burns, Oh yeah, he really 562 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: doesn't Hugh Grant the person. No, Oh, well, I don't know, 563 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: but you know this is coming out. This is the 564 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: midst of the Great Depression, and despite the fact that 565 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: people were losing their jobs they had no money, movies 566 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: still remain popular, especially movies like It Happened One Night, 567 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: because these screwy romantic comedies were portraying the problems of 568 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: the depression, but with characters that ultimately triumphed over them, 569 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: and so you get exposed for instance, and it happened 570 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: one night to the upper class life of Ellie, but 571 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: you then watch she has to cross the country with 572 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: no money and this is an enriching experience that helps 573 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: her grow. And a lot of people were attracted to 574 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: the ideas in these films that poverty was more orally 575 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: superior to wealth, and that your book learning or your 576 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: city learning was no better and definitely not superior to 577 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: the school of hard knocks that a lot of people 578 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 1: were living through during this time. And um I gotta 579 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: mentioned one side fact about Clark Gable in this movie 580 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: Caroline that goes back to our episode on toplessness and 581 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: how we talked about um maile. Toplessness was not accepted 582 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: for a while in the twentieth century as well. Male 583 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: nipples not okay at the beach, but it happened one 584 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: night contains a scene in the bedroom where Clark Gable 585 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: takes his shirt off and he's got nothing on underneath. 586 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I know. And this was I mean 587 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: talk about creating sex without sex. I mean the side 588 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: of Clark Gables. Nipples were a pretty huge deal in 589 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: Hollywood at the time, especially since he had like seven 590 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: of them. He had so many extra nipples. Um. And 591 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: one source that I read said that correlation causation, sure, 592 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: but under sure. Sales plummeted after the movie came out 593 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: because it was wildly popular and people were like, it's 594 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: just Clark Gable winning Claudet Colbert with no under shirt on. 595 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: Look at those nips, look at those nips. Uh. But anyway, uh, 596 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: once we get into the thirties and forties, it happened 597 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: one night really did pave the way for the screwball 598 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: era UM, which specifically lasts between two ish if you 599 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: want to get technical about it, and screwball. Romantic comedies 600 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: are basically ninety minutes of a guy and a girl 601 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: just putting each other through hell yeah and also just 602 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: like injuring themselves over and over again, um, in the 603 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: process of falling in love. Yeah. And it's the movie 604 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: twentieth Century that's also cited as a paved the wayer 605 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: in this genre, and it really ushered in that idea 606 00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: that people who love each other can and will do 607 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: anything they possibly can to torment one another. And this 608 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: is also a great era like I said, for women characters, 609 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: because you finally have a lot of league characters who 610 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: are driving the story and are able, like a Catherine 611 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: Hepburn or a Rosalind Russell to give as good as 612 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 1: she gets. She knows her in mind. She isn't above 613 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: humiliating the guy. She's smart enough to outsmart him, and 614 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: she can even be aggressive or a little predatory. But 615 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: writing about film genre, specifically romantic comedy, Julie Selbo says 616 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: that as big a fans as so many feminist film 617 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: critics are of this era, others have written that the 618 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: threatened violence between couples, especially toward female characters, is a 619 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: sign that they weren't necessarily celebrated as independent and active women, 620 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: but that there is some anxiety around women's independence that's 621 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: getting acted out on screen. I completely disagree. Well, no, 622 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,359 Speaker 1: go tell me I completely disagree. I mean as an 623 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: armchair like twelve year old consumer of these films. Um. 624 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: And also I was I was thinking about this specifically 625 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,479 Speaker 1: when I was watching Bringing Up Baby last night, because 626 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: it's very physical and Katherine Hepburn and Carrie Grant both 627 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: are constantly tripping and falling. Like I said, just somehow 628 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: hurting themselves, having car accidents, you name it, um, And 629 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that it is any way of trying 630 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: to punish Katherine Hepburn's strong willed heiress, but rather, I 631 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: mean I thought it was really fantastic to see a 632 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: woman being as active on screen as the lead man, 633 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: you know. I mean that was my initial reaction to 634 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: reading that was, like, these women, like you said, they 635 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: give as good as they get and sometimes, just like 636 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: the dudes in screwball comedies, specifically that involves tripping and falling, 637 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: Like I mean, there's a lot of banana peals everywhere, 638 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: so to speak. Yeah, And so you've got these screwball 639 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: comedies that are so popular there they are the genre 640 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: of romantic comedies during this time. And I mean, you've 641 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 1: got elements still of those early nine twenties comedies of manners. Uh, 642 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: You've still got that reverse class Nobbery role play masquerade um, 643 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: a conventionally repressed person male or female being brought out 644 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: of his or her shell by the zany person in 645 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: that case of zany heiress um. And then you know, 646 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: being like, oh my god, you're so weird. Oh but 647 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: I think I love you now, especially if that person 648 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: takes off his or her glasses. This is also a 649 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: genre that loves the magical makeover, which yeah, it really 650 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: just requires like classes removable, you're beautiful. But what's interesting 651 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: to see, because nothing exists in a vacuum, is that 652 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: this whole screwball name fature. Although it never truly goes away, 653 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: as we can see in our romantic comedies today, it 654 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: starts to fade and get a little darker post World 655 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 1: War two. So you go from a plot like Philadelphia 656 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: Story where the divorced couple reunites and that's the tension, uh, 657 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: to that of the film The Marrying Kind, which focuses 658 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: instead on the path to divorce. And of course it's 659 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: not like divorce was like super common or accepted back 660 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: then necessarily, but it was showing up in our pop 661 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: culture definitely as a reflection of the times. Oh yeah, 662 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: I mean in the fifties and sixties you start having 663 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: x is as common parts of rom coms, and the 664 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: late fifties through the early seventies is known as the 665 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: era of the sex comedy. Yeah, so through the early 666 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: from the early fifties through the mid sixties particularly, the 667 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: genre definitely lightens again. But that entails masculine and feminine 668 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: roles becoming super black, white, oversimplified, and very explicit. Men 669 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: were painted as wanting sex without strings. Women were painted 670 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: as wanting financial security. If you've seen How to Marry 671 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: a Millionaire, the seven year rich, some like a hot gentleman, 672 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: prefer blonde's pillow talk, all of that stuff, you know 673 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: what we're talking about. And so the the defining characteristics 674 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: of these sex comedies were revolving around those gender differences 675 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: about when sex should happen, because obviously the woman didn't 676 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: want it till she was married, because that was what 677 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: created the tension, right. The man's like, how about how 678 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: they give it to me now, baby, and the woman's like, no, 679 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: not until we're married. It's like, oh, but I'm a 680 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: bachelor with a martini and a record player. Uh, marriage 681 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: is tragic and awful and it's gonna hamper my lifestyle. 682 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: And she's like, well, then you're just not good enough 683 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: for me. And then he's like, oh no, let me 684 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: take off my glasses. I really love you. So that's 685 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 1: early sex comedy. It turns out they were just drunk 686 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: on martinis and woke up the next day completely hungover 687 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: and they were like, this is a terrible idea. Oh man, well, yeah, 688 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: a terrible idea because I fell in love with each other. 689 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: And that's why the whole masquerade thing is one of 690 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: the largest plot devices for these sex comedies. And usually 691 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 1: with sexual motives, you've got a man like Rock Hudson 692 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: and lover comeback pretending to be a shy scientist to 693 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 1: seduce storist day. But when the woman does it, it 694 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: tends to be to like get one up on a 695 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,320 Speaker 1: female rival, or to get the dirt on a female rival, 696 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: rather than necessarily to get back at the dude. And again, 697 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: nothing exists in a vacuum. I can say that all 698 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: the time for everything we ever record because the sex 699 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 1: comedy was ushered in by a very specific set of 700 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: cultural circumstances happening at the same time. So in nine 701 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: three you have the release of the Kinsey Reports that 702 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: gets everyone talking about sex. You also have the birth 703 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: of Playboy happening. There are more people becoming fed up 704 00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: with sexual double standards and these assumptions that women don't 705 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,359 Speaker 1: want or like to have sex. Uh. In nineteen sixty 706 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: we get the pill. I mean, you also have Cosmopolitan 707 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: magazine UM and Helly Helen Gurley Brown taking it over later, 708 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 1: I believe in the sixties or early seventies, and in 709 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six the strict moralistic film codes were replaced 710 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: with rating systems, thanks to efforts by Otto Preminger to 711 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: go around the codes and find distribution for his sexually 712 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: frank nineteen fifty three films that I have not seen, 713 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: Uh The Moon Is Blue, which apparently is a rom 714 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:41,720 Speaker 1: com that investigates sexual desires and double standards. But even still, 715 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,359 Speaker 1: even if it's not like in Your Face, there were 716 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: so many like double entendres and all these films like 717 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: How to Marry a Millionaire in the Seven Year Itch, 718 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: which is where you have the famous scene of uh, 719 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe standing above the subway great in her dress 720 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: blows up and the guy's like, I don't know if 721 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: I with my wife. Well, so, from the mid sixties on, 722 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,399 Speaker 1: you know, rom coms are becoming way more frank when 723 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 1: it comes to sex. But in return we see the 724 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: whole faith and traditional romantic outcomes becoming a little ambivalent 725 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: or even pestimistic. We're getting into the seventies where we 726 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: get movies like Annie Hall and the Graduate and Harold 727 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: and Maud, which is the era of the radical romantic comedy, 728 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: which is like, is love even real? Yeah? Apparently, you know. 729 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,239 Speaker 1: The seventies is known as the me decade, when the 730 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,879 Speaker 1: sexual revolution is overhauling sexual morays and you have more 731 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 1: women achieving more financial independence. I believe it was nine 732 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: when we're finally unmarried. Women were finally allowed to uh 733 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,839 Speaker 1: have credit cards. Good for them, I know, and that 734 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:55,400 Speaker 1: way clueless could happen. Um and women's roles, though around 735 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: this time in films became diminished with the rise of 736 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 1: comedies and action adventure plots. And if you look, you 737 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,360 Speaker 1: know that's happening. And simultaneously I r L. Men and 738 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: women are becoming more open about sex and desire. So 739 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: what kind of tension can you build in a rom com? 740 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: I mean love this old school? Yeah, So you have 741 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,600 Speaker 1: people like Woody Allen and others investigating whether true love 742 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: even exists, our soulmates a thing? Do we even need 743 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: to have love in our lives to be fulfilled? Or 744 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: you know the sad seck I'm so empty because I 745 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: no longer believe in the importance of love. And these 746 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: films are really characterized by this cynicism that eventually moves 747 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: toward acceptance of romantic love, but without necessarily losing their identities, 748 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: without necessarily having the all consuming fairy tale going on. 749 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,960 Speaker 1: And so characteristics of these rom comms include that sexual 750 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 1: frankness and that questioning of the important of love. They're 751 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,360 Speaker 1: also breaking social conventions, so you're seeing divorce and children 752 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: out of wedlock being depicted. And because it is the 753 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: Me generation or the Me decade, that emphasis on the self, 754 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 1: You're seeing more characters in therapy or analysis. You're seeing 755 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:19,879 Speaker 1: more people talking about and reading self help books and um. 756 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,759 Speaker 1: In the movie Starting Over, for instance, the character alludes 757 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: to a women's self defense class. She's talking about the 758 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 1: right and wrong kinds of orgasms and post divorce support groups, 759 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: and on a clear day you can see Forever and 760 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 1: an unmarried woman. Those films emphasize the importance, oh my God, 761 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,680 Speaker 1: of women's sexual fulfillment, because you can, finally post Hayes Code, 762 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,919 Speaker 1: admit that like, oh yeah, women are sexual too. They're 763 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 1: like the other half of this equation. Well, and talk 764 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: about a sex comedy of this era that just came 765 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,240 Speaker 1: to mind as you were talking about that is Um. 766 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 1: I don't know the year that it came out, but 767 00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 1: I believe it was either late nineteen sixties early nineteen seven. 768 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,480 Speaker 1: These starring the beautiful Natalie wood Um and it's called 769 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to mess up these names, the name order, 770 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,880 Speaker 1: but it's something along the lines of Bob Carol Allison Ted. No, 771 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,000 Speaker 1: I think it's Bob Carol Ted and Alice And it's 772 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:19,439 Speaker 1: about these two couples that are wondering whether they should 773 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: swing or not, and like everything revolves around that. I 774 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: mean talk about something a theme that you would not 775 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: see in a rom com. Well, yeah, I mean you've 776 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: got the idea too. Around this time, especially with Annie Hall, 777 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,879 Speaker 1: were like, yes, we're questioning the existence of true love 778 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,840 Speaker 1: and soulmates and you might not even end up together 779 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 1: with that person, but still love is there. So like 780 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: you know, uh, Diane Keaton's character and Woody Allen's character 781 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,279 Speaker 1: don't end up together spoiler, but she finds love and 782 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: happiness with someone else, and he admits at the end 783 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,279 Speaker 1: of the movie, like, oh well, just love is this 784 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,319 Speaker 1: like crazy stupid thing that you know everybody wants and 785 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,759 Speaker 1: has to have even though it's ridiculous, that crazy little 786 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: thing called love, crazy little thing called love, and so yeah, 787 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,399 Speaker 1: the idea deal of love is still there, but we're 788 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,800 Speaker 1: finally admitting like, oh, we can depict not tragic scenes, 789 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: but you know, just more like bumbling, unfortunate romances that 790 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 1: don't work out, even if they might work out with 791 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,480 Speaker 1: other characters. Well, and when we get into the nineties 792 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 1: and onward, I mean that to me is such a 793 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: classic era of rom coms, because I mean, you have 794 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,920 Speaker 1: Nora Fron making when Harry met Sally. I know that 795 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: came out in UM, but yeah, I mean it seems 796 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 1: like this there's really a resurgence of of rom coms. 797 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally. I mean, so Harry met Sally is 798 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,799 Speaker 1: widely considered to be an homage to Woody Allen, but 799 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,120 Speaker 1: again it concludes on a totally different tone or a note, 800 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 1: with that amazing scene at the end where Billy Crystal 801 00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 1: is confessing his love to Meg Ryan in the middle 802 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,879 Speaker 1: of the parted, I just love it, and then Meg 803 00:48:54,960 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 1: Ryan says, no spoiler kidding. Um. So this is when 804 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: we see narratives returning that are focused on romance to 805 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 1: the exclusion basically for most of them, of sex. We 806 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,360 Speaker 1: see sex. No longer being primary or even important the couple, 807 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:20,239 Speaker 1: the romance, the fairy tale prince charming stuff is what 808 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 1: is of primary importance, and it's up to the protagonist 809 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: to figure out how and whether she wants it. And 810 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:33,280 Speaker 1: this person is usually damaged in some way, uh, maybe 811 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 1: has gone through a painful experience and now they're cynical 812 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 1: about love because inevitably they're in New York City and 813 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,120 Speaker 1: no good men are left in New York City and 814 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,239 Speaker 1: they've really got to come to terms with whatever their 815 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 1: pain or damages to be able to come together with 816 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,920 Speaker 1: prince charming, like you see again with the proposal with 817 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,319 Speaker 1: Ryan Reynolds and uh, Sandra Bullock, who's also a rom 818 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,400 Speaker 1: com queen who I just love, like Sandra Bullocks probably 819 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,279 Speaker 1: one of my favorite people. I say that, like, I know, 820 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: are bandy? Are you listening, Sandy? Um? But yeah, that's 821 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,280 Speaker 1: a plot where the woman is a super independent, career 822 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,279 Speaker 1: driven and doesn't want love and then finally has her 823 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,960 Speaker 1: cold dead heart warmed by Ryan Reynolds adorable family which 824 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:23,280 Speaker 1: I believe as coach and Mary Steen Virgins it is coach. Yeah. Um, 825 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,440 Speaker 1: But you see more plots like that where it's like 826 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,160 Speaker 1: We're not even trying to get in bed together. We 827 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 1: just love each other so much. And romcom characteristics around 828 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: this time include things like nostalgia around romance, which you 829 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: absolutely see with When Harry met Sally. Um. You have 830 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 1: references to older films, stories and songs to fill characters 831 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,680 Speaker 1: and moods. You actually have a d emphasis on sex 832 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: and emphasizing his place, romantic compatibility and still marriages the 833 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,160 Speaker 1: end goal. Everyone wants to find that someone someone. Why 834 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,359 Speaker 1: I think that whole referencing back to old films and 835 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,839 Speaker 1: songs and stuff is so interesting because I never thought 836 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:06,720 Speaker 1: about it that way. But when you have a movie 837 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,759 Speaker 1: like My Best Friend's Wedding that's got a lot of 838 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,600 Speaker 1: those great old songs in it, when you have a 839 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,040 Speaker 1: Sleepless in Seattle like part of the plot is based 840 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,520 Speaker 1: around and affair to remember, and so there is a 841 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,919 Speaker 1: lot of that winking to the audience of like, look 842 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,760 Speaker 1: at what we're trying to do. We're bringing romance back. 843 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,160 Speaker 1: But a big exception to this very American conversation we've 844 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,800 Speaker 1: been having because we are American UM is the British 845 00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:39,719 Speaker 1: rom com which did feature premarital sex Um, but they 846 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: excuse it by making the sexually aggressive partner both female 847 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,160 Speaker 1: and American a lot of times, for instance, in four 848 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 1: weddings in a funeral, notting Hill and Wimbledon, which I've 849 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 1: never seen. I have not seen Wimbledon either, but yeah, 850 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,360 Speaker 1: I think that's so funny. Again, this is a point 851 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,440 Speaker 1: I literally had not considered before, but it's so true 852 00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,960 Speaker 1: for weddings in a funeral though, like bless Andie mcdwell's heart. 853 00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,240 Speaker 1: She is so pretty, but she is a terrible actress. 854 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,839 Speaker 1: But Groundhog Day, that's a fun one. It was so fun. 855 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,479 Speaker 1: But she's so like, she's just that pretty face that's 856 00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,960 Speaker 1: like vacant behind the ass. I have a follow up 857 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,399 Speaker 1: question related to rom coms and Andy McDowell to ask you, 858 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,640 Speaker 1: and also Matthew McConaughey. Is Magic Mike a rom com? 859 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:28,239 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. Caroline Listeners, please write me and 860 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,839 Speaker 1: let me know everything that you think about Magic Mike 861 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,560 Speaker 1: and Magic Mike XXL. Because Andy McDowell is in the 862 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,839 Speaker 1: follow up, I would argue that it is a rom com. 863 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 1: I believe you and terrific. But anyway, well, I mean, 864 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,880 Speaker 1: I think to close out, I mean, we've given you 865 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,920 Speaker 1: a really huge history to introduce this topic, but I 866 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,680 Speaker 1: think to close out, obviously, the calm part of the 867 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,240 Speaker 1: rom com is indispensable, because if you didn't have the calm, 868 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,640 Speaker 1: it would just probably be a rom dram and which 869 00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:02,640 Speaker 1: can be okay, you know, English, patient, whatever, but you know, 870 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,400 Speaker 1: it's it's weird that, like the defining characteristic of what 871 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,560 Speaker 1: makes this genre is also what makes it so dispensable. 872 00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,720 Speaker 1: Like it's so easy to just poo poo them and 873 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:16,000 Speaker 1: and gloss over them and ignore them because it's something 874 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,080 Speaker 1: that's funny and it is prat falls and it's joking, 875 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:23,319 Speaker 1: and it's wit and snark and sarcasm, and it is 876 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:28,120 Speaker 1: happy endings. But like I love that. Sometimes sometimes I 877 00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:32,120 Speaker 1: don't watch them as much anymore, um, and I was wondering. 878 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:33,759 Speaker 1: I was like, do I not watch anymore because they're 879 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,200 Speaker 1: terrible and I'm so sick of Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson, 880 00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,640 Speaker 1: Or do I not watch them anymore because I'm like 881 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,400 Speaker 1: older and an established relationship. I don't know, And it 882 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 1: also makes you want to see some some scholarly analysis 883 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:51,320 Speaker 1: of uh film criticism regarding Judd Apatow's rom coms, because 884 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,319 Speaker 1: obviously that's like a whole new phase of it where 885 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 1: you have more of the raunch calm, but all of 886 00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,880 Speaker 1: those women still end up Like I'm waving my finger 887 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,840 Speaker 1: at this because like all of those women still end 888 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,760 Speaker 1: up in the traditional feminine Like I'm gonna get married 889 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,799 Speaker 1: and be reformed by love things and I am going 890 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,800 Speaker 1: to be pretty emotional about it, and I'm going to 891 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: be pretty well yeah, yeah, so well. I can't wait 892 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,400 Speaker 1: to talk about this more now summer um, and I 893 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,239 Speaker 1: think that we should give listeners a preview of what's 894 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,120 Speaker 1: to come, because this is an overview, but we're going 895 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:30,600 Speaker 1: to dive into more specific topics such as well, for one, 896 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:36,200 Speaker 1: the cold, deadhearted career woman who finds love she mentioned earlier. 897 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,800 Speaker 1: We're also going to dedicate an episode to l g P, 898 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,040 Speaker 1: d Q rom coms, and also people of color and 899 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:49,880 Speaker 1: rom comms, who are usually sidekicks. Yeah, yeah, exactly, or 900 00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: the rom com is sort of a niche as a 901 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,840 Speaker 1: black comedy right right, and ignored by the mainstream. And 902 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,480 Speaker 1: then finally we're dedicated any one to the sidekicks themselves. Yeah, 903 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,080 Speaker 1: I can't wait. Oh my god, there were so much 904 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,759 Speaker 1: like as I was taking notes for this episode, I 905 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:08,719 Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is this is there so much 906 00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,479 Speaker 1: in here for everything, and I had to stop myself 907 00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,360 Speaker 1: from just reading for hours, although I did read for 908 00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,880 Speaker 1: hours and never mind, it's really fun, um, and I 909 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:17,799 Speaker 1: bet you have some fun letters to share with us, 910 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 1: including your favorite and least favorite rom coms and why 911 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,840 Speaker 1: mom stuff at house Stuffworks dot Com is where you 912 00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:24,799 Speaker 1: can send your letters. You can also tweet us at 913 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,160 Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And we've got 914 00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:35,399 Speaker 1: a couple of messages to share with you right now. Well, 915 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,839 Speaker 1: I've got a letter here from Erica in response to 916 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:42,400 Speaker 1: our episode on the comfort women of World War two. Uh. 917 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,160 Speaker 1: Erica says, I found the episode very timely as I 918 00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,600 Speaker 1: just finished a paper about ethnic struggles in Japan for 919 00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,600 Speaker 1: my college finals. There may be several reasons behind the 920 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,080 Speaker 1: disturbing fact that Japan won't acknowledge the comfort women from Korea. 921 00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,880 Speaker 1: One maybe because it would essentially open a can of 922 00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,839 Speaker 1: worms about the entire Japanese sex industry and how they 923 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:04,160 Speaker 1: foreign women overall. This additional mistreatment has happened outside of 924 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,800 Speaker 1: war and still continues today. Japan has had an influx 925 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,880 Speaker 1: of migration since their economy boomed in the nineteen eighties, 926 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:15,600 Speaker 1: Filipino women often traveled to Japan under entertainment visas, and 927 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,080 Speaker 1: Japan allowed this, knowing that these women would turn to 928 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:22,040 Speaker 1: or be forced into prostitution. Additionally, Filipino women were brought 929 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,399 Speaker 1: into the country to marry rural farmers who couldn't find 930 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,960 Speaker 1: Japanese wives. These women were forced to adopt Japanese names 931 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,880 Speaker 1: and denine cultural identity. The point here is that this 932 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,200 Speaker 1: is all very recent and may still be going on. 933 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,799 Speaker 1: Japan also has a recent tradition of recruiting half Japanese 934 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,520 Speaker 1: women for modeling. These girls, as young as ten, are 935 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:44,560 Speaker 1: collected from areas with large migrant populations, usually Brazilian, and 936 00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:48,279 Speaker 1: quote unquote adopted by modeling agency staff to live with them, 937 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,319 Speaker 1: where they are molded into the perfect Japanese citizen. This 938 00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,040 Speaker 1: is another way to strip a girl of her own 939 00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,680 Speaker 1: cultural identity and objectify her. There are several more examples 940 00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,000 Speaker 1: of Japanese mistreatment of foreign women, but I didn't want 941 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,640 Speaker 1: to make the email too long. Thank you for all 942 00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:03,440 Speaker 1: your work and I look forward to learning more from 943 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,640 Speaker 1: your podcast, and thank you Erica for your notes. We 944 00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,840 Speaker 1: always appreciate filling in the gaps of our episodes in 945 00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,279 Speaker 1: that whole having to take a Japanese name thing was 946 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,799 Speaker 1: also going on with Korean women who were forced into 947 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,120 Speaker 1: prostitution around World War Two, who uh men and women 948 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,320 Speaker 1: alike had to adopt Japanese names. So thank you. So 949 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,040 Speaker 1: I've got a letter here from Lauren in response to 950 00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:30,040 Speaker 1: our episode on the American military and prostitution. And Lauren 951 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:34,200 Speaker 1: graduated from West Point In and served five years in 952 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:39,560 Speaker 1: the military, including a deployment in Kandahar, Afghanistan, and she writes, 953 00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:44,520 Speaker 1: upon arrival in theater service, women received numerous lectures and 954 00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,480 Speaker 1: were told anecdotes urban legend or real. I'm still not 955 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,720 Speaker 1: certain of women being violently sexually assaulted, as if our 956 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:55,919 Speaker 1: greatest threat wasn't enemy combatants but our fellows soldiers both 957 00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,120 Speaker 1: American and Allies on base inside the secure perimeter. It 958 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,960 Speaker 1: was so frightening that for the majority of the deployment 959 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,120 Speaker 1: I carried a quick draw knife on my belt and 960 00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,760 Speaker 1: practice unsheathing it in case I was attacked in close quarters. 961 00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,160 Speaker 1: And this was on top of carrying a loaded pistol 962 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,800 Speaker 1: on my hip. Female soldiers were not allowed to go 963 00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:17,040 Speaker 1: anywhere without a battle buddy, especially after dark, and could 964 00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,040 Speaker 1: get in trouble if found walking alone. I felt as 965 00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,280 Speaker 1: if the military was saying, ladies, is up to you 966 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,720 Speaker 1: to protect yourselves, because we know these military men have 967 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,880 Speaker 1: needs and eventually they won't be able to contain themselves. 968 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,560 Speaker 1: I mean, really, one of the most ludicrous arguments against 969 00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,240 Speaker 1: women serving in combat arms, branches, and unions is that 970 00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,000 Speaker 1: women will have sex with members of their units and 971 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,400 Speaker 1: damage unit cohesion and morale. So basically, men can't keep 972 00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,560 Speaker 1: it in their pants, so let's keep discriminating against women, 973 00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,680 Speaker 1: or worse, women are temptresses who will seduce helpless men 974 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,040 Speaker 1: who can't resist their charms and must be kept away 975 00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,800 Speaker 1: from our military heroes. I can't help but wonder and 976 00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,520 Speaker 1: hope that by the time my daughter is of age 977 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,400 Speaker 1: to serve in the military, if she chooses, women will 978 00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,600 Speaker 1: no longer be expected to prevent their own sexual assault. 979 00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:04,000 Speaker 1: Oh well, Lauren, First of all, thank you for your service, 980 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:08,920 Speaker 1: and thank you for sharing that with us um and listeners. 981 00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,160 Speaker 1: If you have thoughts to share with us. Mom Stuff 982 00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,360 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com is our email address 983 00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,120 Speaker 1: and for links to all of our social media as 984 00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,680 Speaker 1: well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts with 985 00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,840 Speaker 1: our sources so you can learn more about rom coms, 986 00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,760 Speaker 1: head on over to stuff Mom Never told you dot 987 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:30,880 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 988 00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:40,200 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works dot com