1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is Stuff you 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 2: should know True crime Murder Mystery edition, like in the 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: purest form in that we do not know who did it? Sorry? 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 2: Who done it? 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 3: Yeah? 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: And we may never know. We probably will never know, 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: even though we kind of know. 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 3: It seems like, yeah, I don't think we'll ever know. 11 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 3: This was a listener. 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: Suggestion, okay, and I actually from a year ago, almost 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: to the day. 14 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: Oh, that's creepy. 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: Sometimes we like to do that, you know. Sure, it's like, yeah, 16 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: great idea, We'll do it. 17 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 3: In one year. 18 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're like, great idea. 19 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 3: So this has been sitting in the kitty for a while. 20 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: This is from Samuel Krohle, and Olivia helped us out, 21 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: and that's it's a real banger about the history of 22 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: in a way, the history of Stanford University. It really is, 23 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: and one of its co founders and her pretty obvious murder. 24 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Stanfords were very much intertwined with the 25 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: early years of Stanford University, because, after all, you can't 26 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 2: spell Stanford without Stanford. And the reason that this is 27 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: a murder mystery is because one of the Stanfords dies mysteriously. 28 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: We're not going to say who. You'll figure it out 29 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: towards the end, and I say, we jump in and 30 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: just start talking about Jane Stanford, who is for the 31 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: most part the star of our show. 32 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 3: That's right, because she was murdered. 33 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: Man, that was the big twist. 34 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 3: Did you not hear me or are you just is 35 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 3: this all a bit? 36 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: Uh? It's a bit Okay, I didn't hear you, but 37 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: it is still a bit. What did you say that 38 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: was so pivotal? 39 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 3: I said that she was murdered, and he said, we're 40 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 3: not going to say he was murdered. 41 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: Right afterward, Oh, I didn't hear you say that. I see, Yeah, 42 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 2: well we'll just edit all this up now. 43 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 3: We should leave it. So Jane Stanford was. 44 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: You know, she was sort of the prototypical Gilded age 45 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 1: wife at the time, supporting her husband. That was kind 46 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: of a job and not kind of it was like 47 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: a real job, sort of entertaining, keeping up with like 48 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: large residences when you have tons of money, that kind 49 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: of thing. But she would go on to be a 50 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: she was a very demanding person. It seems like I 51 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: want to go on to be a very demanding kind 52 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: of lead trustee at Stanford University. And some might even 53 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: say a micromanager. 54 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think she definitely fits that mold for sure. 55 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 3: But as a micromanager, she would just say, I just 56 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 3: want to make sure it's done. 57 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: Right, right right. She had some very distinct ideas that 58 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: she wanted fulfilled with Stanford, and she had the money 59 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: to back it up. 60 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: Basically, yeah, for sure. 61 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: But he was born a little background here in upstate 62 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: New York in Albany in eighteen twenty eight. One of 63 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: seven kids. She was born wealthy. Her parents were shopkeepers, 64 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: and she would eventually marry a guy named Leland Stanford. 65 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: She was born Jane Lathrop and then would be Jane 66 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: Stanford or Jane Lathrope Stanford. He was also from upstate 67 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 1: New York and he was an attorney practicing in Wisconsin. 68 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: I keep want to say, Wisconsin, you can. 69 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: Say that's all right. People in Wisconsin don't care. 70 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to Madison in April. I can't say 71 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: that in front of them. 72 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: I think you can. I really think they'll support it. 73 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: They are nice people. 74 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: Yes, pretty much too of herson, except for that one 75 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 2: she was. 76 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: They knew who they are. 77 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: Jane was twenty two at the time, and they were 78 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: a part for the beginning of their marriage. 79 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: Though right geographically, yeah, Jane moved back to Albany after 80 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: they got married and they were living in Wisconsin. She 81 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 2: wanted to care for her father, which put that just 82 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: off to the side. It's not a huge thing, but 83 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: she cared for her father until his death. After he died, 84 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: she joined her husband, Leland out west. He was a 85 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: gold prospector. Well, actually, I don't think he ever got 86 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 2: into prospecting. He was a goods dry goods shop owner 87 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: who outfitted prospectors, and he fulfilled like the quintessential Golden 88 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 2: rule of business in a gold brush, don't prospect, sell shovels. 89 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: That's exactly what he did. 90 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know what, you may not find gold, 91 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: but you can always sell a shovel to a gold miner. 92 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: That's precisely right. But I speculate when you can. I 93 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: don't know regulate. 94 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: No, I was about to say, Man, if you don't 95 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: rhyme that thing, I know, I don't even know who 96 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: you are. 97 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,039 Speaker 2: I still didn't do a very good job, but at least. 98 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: No I thought it was pretty good. 99 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: So he made some pretty good money doing that. But 100 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: he really really got rich when he became one of 101 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: the Big four robber barons that put their money for 102 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: it to finance the Central Pacific Railroad in eighteen sixty one, 103 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, they had this big life 104 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: as wealthy people, and he said, well, why not just 105 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: get into politics as well? 106 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: Well, the Big Four basically got him into politics to 107 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: represent their interests, basically, like they put up some of 108 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 2: their money, but for the most part, they used Leland 109 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: Stanford's ron as the governor of California and then later 110 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: on as a senator in the United States Senate to 111 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: basically lean on the government to get the government to 112 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: underwrite the building of the railroad to make connections so 113 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: that you could bribe people more easily. Like it was 114 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: a so windle. That's how those dudes made that railroad. 115 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 2: They ended up with a monopoly. They seek really bought 116 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 2: the Southern Pacific Railroad, and all of a sudden, Leland 117 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: Stanford's the president of that now too, So just to 118 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: just kind of like just painted with a big brush 119 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: the Stanford's made their money in very questionable ways. So 120 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: just just remember that because this is like such a 121 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: it's such a great example of American myth making where 122 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: some guy just basically fails upward and becomes super super wealthy, 123 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: and then you know, very shortly after that he becomes 124 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 2: lionized as like this great heroic builder of America. And 125 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: that's just I'm just so sick of that it still 126 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: goes on today. 127 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 3: I mean, haven't most of the Robber Baron's been kind 128 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 3: of kneecapped. 129 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I think so. But I think at least 130 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: some of them were legitimately philanthropists. I don't think Leland 131 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: Stanford was legitimately a philanthropist. I get the impression. I've 132 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 2: actually seen it written that basically they laundered their ill 133 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: gotten gains through the university to leave a prestigious legacy 134 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: for themselves instead. 135 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: All right, well, they were smart for the first eighteen 136 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: years of their marriage and did not have kids, and 137 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: then they ruined that all kind of later in life 138 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: for them. When little Leland Junior was born. Jane was 139 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: thirty nine at the time, which is especially for the time, 140 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: a bit of an advanced stage to give birth certainly, 141 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, not without risk. And Leland Senior was, like 142 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: you said, he got involved in politics. They also, I mean, 143 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: they had their fingers in a lot of pies. They 144 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: ran a few wineries, they raised horses. This is just 145 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: a little kind of fun side note that Livia dug up. 146 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, you know the very famous Edward Moybridge his 147 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: early motion picture film when he set up twenty four 148 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: cameras and showed like a horse running, which a said like, hey, 149 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: we can have something called motion pictures and also said, hey, 150 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: look that horse has all of its four feet off 151 00:07:58,880 --> 00:07:59,239 Speaker 1: the ground. 152 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: At the same time. That was done on their. 153 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: Property, the Palo Alto Stock Farm. So just a fun 154 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: little thing, and that's where Stanford University eventually would be. 155 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,119 Speaker 2: Did you ever see the Jordan Peele movie. Nope, yep, 156 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: I thought that was a cool little just a little 157 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 2: line yap where the oh I don't remember his name, 158 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 2: but he was also in Get Out to the main Guy. Yeah, yeah, 159 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: yeah where he he's his character is descended from the 160 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 2: jockey that rode that horse. 161 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. I thought that was cool too, Daniel something right. 162 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 2: I don't remember. I feel like a total jerk, but. 163 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 3: Well, you know, you can't remember everything off the dome. 164 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 2: But it turns out in real life that jockey's name 165 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 2: was Dom do o m m. They think maybe Gilbert Dom. 166 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 3: So you know his name? 167 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I looked it up this morning. So all right, 168 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: that's it. Smart guy. Here. 169 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 3: We're glad everybody knows that guy's name. 170 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 2: Here we go. 171 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: So sadly, Leland Junior would not live very long. He 172 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: died at fifteen. He went to Europe with his mom 173 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: and it was pretty sad thing, obviously a tragedy for 174 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: the family. But a very interesting thing happened at the 175 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: funeral when a young woman named Bertha Berner was there 176 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: and met Jane. Would later write her a letter and say, Hey, 177 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: I think you could use a person like me in 178 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: your life. We'll call it personal secretary or whatever, but 179 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: basically your right hand person to kind of help you 180 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: with everything that you need. 181 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, just the classic Gilded Age wife, right, yeah, okay. 182 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 3: Along with a little spiritualism thrown in. 183 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a big one. And you know that 184 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 2: gets kind of tossed around quite a bit that the Stanfords, 185 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 2: in particular Jane, were really heavy into spiritualism. Well, all 186 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: out of people were heavy into spiritualism at this time, 187 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: so it was generally looked down upon from the halls 188 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: of academia. So in a way it was a little 189 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: awkward for the university for their founders to have been 190 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: into spiritualism. But it wasn't just completely out of left field. 191 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 3: No not. 192 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: You know, among especially among the sort of wealthy elites, 193 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: they were into that kind of thing. 194 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: And also I mean there was the death of Edward 195 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 2: or the death of Leland Junior was a really huge 196 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: turning point. Apparently they were kind of dabbling in it. 197 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: But after that she kind of devoted herself to getting 198 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: a message from or getting in contact I guess with 199 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: Leland Junior again. And she tried for a long time, 200 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 2: and then I think in the end she was she 201 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: was dissatisfied. She couldn't find anybody that she considered legitimate 202 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 2: enough to actually do it, even though she believed it 203 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 2: was possible. She found that everyone she came in contact 204 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: with was a fraud or huckster. 205 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: So and she's probably right. So Berner gets this job. 206 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: You know, people from the outside were like, man, she 207 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: really works hard for Jane Stanford, like she doesn't seem 208 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: to have any time off. She kind of is run 209 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: by Jane Stanford, but they were very close and she 210 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: would be with her until the day she died. Put 211 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: a pen in that and in fact would get quite 212 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 1: rich from her death. I think she got fifteen grand. 213 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: The other household staff got a thousand dollars each in 214 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: the will, but Berner got fifteen grand, which is about 215 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: half a million today. 216 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 3: So not too bad, No, not bad at all. 217 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 2: I Also, I just want to say before we move on, 218 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: the actor's name is Daniel Caluja. 219 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 3: Great. 220 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: So it was Leland Junior's death that actually inspired the 221 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,359 Speaker 1: founding of Stanford University. 222 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 3: There are a couple of stories about how that might 223 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 3: have happened. 224 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: I think Leland took maybe the more acceptable mainstream version, 225 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: which is, hey, it came to me in a dream 226 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: after my son's death. But there was a medium, maud 227 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: Lord Drake, who said, no, that actually happened in a 228 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: seance with me. It was a visitation from the afterworld 229 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: that I mediated, and he just didn't want to say 230 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: that out loud, so he just called it a dream. 231 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Her famous quote was who has two thumbs? And 232 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: was the medium who got Leland junior to tell his 233 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: parents that he wanted them to found a university, and 234 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 2: she said me. 235 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, maud Lord Drake. 236 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: So yeah, you could actually make a case that if 237 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 2: the university was true to form at the time, it's 238 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: quite possible that they the Stanford's claimed that it was 239 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: from this seance, but the university just basically whitewashed that 240 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: over and it became a dream instead. That's right, so, Chuck, 241 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: Regardless of how it came about, the Stanfords said that 242 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: although they had lost their son, now the children of 243 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: California would become their children, and to do that, they 244 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 2: founded Stanford University. For those of you who aren't familiar, 245 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 2: it's one of the most prestigious universities in the world 246 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 2: as far as I know, certainly in the US. Is 247 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: the cradle for our current tech explosion, and it's just 248 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 2: a really great university. Its official name is Leland Stanford 249 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: Junior University after Leland Stanford Junior. Still today, that's what 250 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: it's called. And if you look at the details of 251 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 2: how it was founded and what its mission was when 252 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: it was open, it's like the Stanford's definitely did a 253 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: good job of opening a public university. 254 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty unique. Tuition was free first of all, 255 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: so that was fairly unique. So it you know, they 256 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: led in students that couldn't afford to go to college otherwise. Yeah, 257 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: Jane said, I want to make it a co ed school. 258 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: There were just a handful of those in the in 259 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: the United States at the time. 260 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: And also, I'm doing Sergio, You're what I'm doing, Sergio, 261 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 2: Jane said. 262 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 3: Oh, I got you. 263 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: The other sort of odd thing was that it was 264 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: not associated with a church. It was a Christian university, 265 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: but it wasn't like, you know, Jane again was dabbling 266 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: in the occult, so she she had sort of loose, 267 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: sort of a loose association with particular denominations. So it 268 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: was a non denominational Christian school, very much kind of 269 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: a liberal arts thing at first. It would later and 270 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: in fact, you know, it was part of the friction 271 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: between Jane and the eventual president on what kind of 272 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: school it would be. She wanted it more liberal arts 273 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: and he wanted it more science and research, research based. 274 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, but even out of the gate, apparently it was 275 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: for preparing students for personal success and direct usefulness in life. 276 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: One of the things they did was they created an 277 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: extension service for local farmers to find out the latest 278 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: agricultural techniques. They accepted high school shop classes as credits. 279 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: Like it they were. It wasn't just this. It wasn't 280 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: an elite institution meant to create a new generation of 281 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: elites like say Harvard was at the time, just at 282 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 2: the time. 283 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: By the way, in my defense, I didn't recognize your 284 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: Jane's addiction line because I think that lyric is wrong. 285 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: I think it's I'm done with Sergio. 286 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the second verse, is it. I 287 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: will say anything to make myself right. 288 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 3: Okay, I just wouldn't. He said. Doing Sergio was like, 289 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 3: who the hell is Sergio? 290 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 2: She was? That's the point. 291 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 3: Okay. 292 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: He treated her like a rag doll. 293 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 3: Well see now you're getting back on the good side 294 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 3: of history. 295 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: Well die, thanks all right. So Stanford is opening up. 296 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: It's October first, eighteen ninety one. Leland gives a great 297 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: speech Leland senior, of course, and Jane apparently had a 298 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: real banger of a speech written, and she said that 299 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: she didn't have the courage to actually do it, but 300 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: had she, it would have gone over pretty well, I think, 301 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: because in it there was a plea to the students, like, hey, 302 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: we're a new school. You know, got to work out 303 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: the kinks here. Maybe be a little patient, and hey, 304 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: if you're a young male student here, you know you 305 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: have girls around, Please treat these young ladies with great deference. 306 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: And you might have some kids who don't come from 307 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: wealthy backgrounds because it's a free school, and maybe treat 308 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: them well as well. So you know, she has this 309 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: great letter written and never says it publicly, unfortunately, No. 310 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: But I mean all of these points support our overall point, 311 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 2: like we said, which is they did a pretty good 312 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 2: job of founding a university. Like to mission was great. 313 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 2: The details are pretty. 314 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 3: Great, better than we've done. 315 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: For sure. Ours is still kind of getting off the ground. 316 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: It's just basically a grift right now, right, but hopefully 317 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: we'll be able to build it into something real. Yeah, 318 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 2: there is an issue with finding a president. Apparently the 319 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 2: presidents they were looking for were like, I'm good here, 320 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 2: I don't feel like moving out west. I think that 321 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: was a big part of it. Like CALIFORNI you was 322 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 2: not like California as it is now. The Stanford University 323 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 2: helped make northern California. What it is now, so it 324 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 2: was still rugged. You know. They couldn't get any just 325 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 2: any Eastern college president to hop from his college out 326 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 2: to Stanford. They finally found a former president of Indiana 327 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 2: University named David Starr Jordan, who was also an ichthyologist 328 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 2: by training and trade. He finally took them up on 329 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 2: the offer. 330 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 3: That's right. 331 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: And he also had a lot of pretty gross views 332 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: on things, yeah, like super in retrospect. He was into eugenics. 333 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: He thought scientific racism was pretty great in that if 334 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: you're unfit, like if you're disabled or if you're in prison, 335 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: maybe we should. 336 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: Just sterilize you. 337 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,959 Speaker 1: And yeah, women should get educated, but just so they 338 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: can be smarter in the home as homemakers. 339 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: He was also like a vocal pacifist, which you're kind 340 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 2: of like, oh, okay, that's not bad. The reason why 341 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: he was a pacifist was because he felt war promoted 342 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 2: racial degradation because you send the fittest young men off 343 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: to die, that leaves the week to stay home and procreate, 344 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: and it degenerates the racer society back home. That was 345 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: the reason he was a pacifist in anti war. Yeah, 346 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: there was nothing he could do right basically with that 347 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 2: set of views. 348 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, I think we should probably take a break. 349 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, set the stage for Stanford's founding. Sure, and we'll 350 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 3: be right back with more on Jane Stanford. 351 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 2: If you want to know then you're in luck. Just 352 00:18:39,200 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: listen to joshcher Suffus stuffus. No, Okay, So we're whittling 353 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: down the people who could possibly have been murdered because 354 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 2: Leland Junior's dead. Now, now Leland Senior dies, there are 355 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 2: very few people left of the Stanfords. Two have been 356 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 2: the murder victim. Now it's just Jane. If that gives 357 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: anything away, that's right. 358 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: So Jane was left as the basically the only trustee 359 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: of the early university, and she had a situation going 360 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: on with the US government where they were like it 361 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: was a lawsuit fifteen million bucks and eighteen ninety three dollars, 362 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: and the kind of central point of it was they 363 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: the government was like, hey, because you or your husband 364 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: and your family was part you know, like founded and 365 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: has ownership stairs of the Central Pacific Railroad Company, you 366 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: should also be responsible for that company's debts and we 367 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: helped finance this thing, so like you need to pay 368 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: us back for these bonds that we sold, right, and 369 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: she actually won that case, which all of a sudd 370 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: and you know, they kind of had frozen her assets. 371 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,959 Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, these assets were open, and 372 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: she gave a huge chunk of eighteen ninety nine dollars 373 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: to Stanford and to the tune of ten million bucks. 374 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should say to her credit before that. 375 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 2: So this went on for six years. From what I 376 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 2: can tell. During that six year time, the court gave 377 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 2: her a three hundred in today's dollars about a three 378 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 2: hundred and sixty five thousand dollars a month allowance, and 379 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 2: she spent most of it. She gave most of it 380 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 2: to Stanford to run Stanford with. So she wasn't just like, well, 381 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 2: I'm good, good luck Stanford. So and then yeah, after 382 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: her assets were on frozen, she was like, hey, how 383 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: about ten million dollars? And everyone said, God, this is great, 384 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 2: how wonderful. And she's like, wait a second, there's a 385 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,239 Speaker 2: couple of strings I'm going to attach to this. And 386 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 2: they were strings that you would find hard to swallow, 387 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: like the kind of strings you would put down your 388 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: nose and pull out your mouth at the same time, 389 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: back and forth, they were those kind of strings. 390 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 391 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: I mean she basically had total and complete control of 392 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: what happened there, including like how many trustees there would 393 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: even be, so she wouldn't get a lot of pushback. 394 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: Like I said, she was a micromanager, but not to her. 395 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: To her, she just wanted things done right, and she 396 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: basically had complete control over the university, said, you know, 397 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: like who could get in, who could get out, what 398 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: teachers they could hire as staff. 399 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 3: She said that they capped. 400 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: Even though it was her idea to make it a 401 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: co ed school, which is great, she capped it at 402 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: five hundred women because she didn't want it. She thought 403 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: after that people may think it's a women's college and 404 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: that men might stop applying, and that cap was in 405 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: place for a while even after she died, until they 406 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: got rid of it. 407 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. I read that she also had been told rumors 408 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 2: that the men students were being distracted by the women's students, 409 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 2: and Susan B. Anthony wrote her and was just appalled 410 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 2: and was like, what are you doing. She stuck with it. 411 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: She was very adamant about that, and like you said, 412 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 2: I don't think it was until the thirties where they 413 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 2: finally were like, we can't just keep it at five hundred, 414 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 2: so they lifted that. 415 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Star the President did not like this at all. 416 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: He didn't like having someone sort of that much in 417 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: the business. It seems like they had a pretty friction 418 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: riddled relationship. Yeah, especially you know, she tried to get 419 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: some of the spiritualism in there. I mentioned before that 420 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: she wanted to focus on the liberal arts, but she 421 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: also wanted to create an academic chair in psychic psychology. 422 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: She also tried to hire this philosopher named William James, 423 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: who was a guy who was very much involved in 424 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: the paranormal as a visiting professor. 425 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. He was also the father of psychology, so he 426 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: would have been quite a catch. But I think just 427 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: his association with the paranormal made Jordan kind of like 428 00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 2: dismiss everything else. 429 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see that she finally got this guy 430 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: named Julius Gerbel, not Goebels. I don't know if he 431 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: dropped that s would or I guess this was pre 432 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: World War two so he didn't even know yet, but 433 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: he it seems like he was hired basically to kind 434 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: of look out over the shoulder of David Starr Jordan, 435 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: which he certainly didn't appreciate. 436 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: No, and he reported back to Jane Stanford that Jordan 437 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 2: was basically a patron of the science department and anti 438 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: liberal arts departments, and that he was basically running the 439 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: university like that. He was going behind Jane Stanford's back 440 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 2: to win that argument over whether it should be a 441 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: science or a liberal arts college. And then one thing 442 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 2: that really kind of made huge waves as far as 443 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: her micromanagement went. You said that she wanted to have 444 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 2: control over who was hired. She also felt like she 445 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: was totally within her rights to say fire that guy 446 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: for whatever reason. And there was a professor named Edward A. 447 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 2: Ross who was a social scientist, and he was very 448 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,719 Speaker 2: much vocal in his support for William Jennings Bryant, who 449 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: was a Democrat, and she did not like that. She 450 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 2: was not in favor of William Jennings Bryant, so she 451 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: told Jordan to fire him, and Jordan eventually buckled under pressure, 452 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 2: and this became like a national scandal about whether there 453 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 2: was academic freedom at all at Stanford. It was a 454 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 2: huge deal. 455 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: Well, I think everyone sees where this is headed, and this, 456 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: I guess we'll just classify as murder attempt number one 457 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: in January of nineteen oh five. That was a servant 458 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: that puts some water on her nightstand before Jane Stanford 459 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: was going to bed, and there in San Francisco, she 460 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: drank some of it, said this doesn't taste quite right. 461 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: So she went and gagged herself and made herself throw up, 462 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: and then gave it to her secretary and said, here, 463 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: you try this. She tried it and was like, yeah, 464 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: this doesn't taste right. So they sent it to a 465 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: pharmacy and found that, in fact, was poison. It was 466 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: it was rat poison, not full Strych nine, but just 467 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: sort of over the counter rat poison. 468 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is bad enough. I mean, it could kill 469 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 2: you for sure. So this was I mean, I can't 470 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 2: imagine that, like if somebody had put rat poison in 471 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 2: your water. So she was like, I'm getting out of here. 472 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 2: I guess after the report came back a few weeks 473 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 2: later that it was rat poison. She went to Hawaii. 474 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 2: I read that she was ultimately on her way to 475 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 2: Japan and that Hawaii was just a stop. I also 476 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 2: read that she was trying to get out of Dodge 477 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 2: and get away from having been poisoned, and so news 478 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 2: of this poisoning started to spread and Jordan, president of Stanford, 479 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: was like, nope, no scandals please. We just had that 480 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 2: huge deal with firing Edward A. Ross. There was no poisoning. 481 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 2: Jane Stanford doesn't think she was poisoned. It's all just 482 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 2: some you know, misunderstanding. So nothing to see here, everybody. 483 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: Right, So the media is not fully buying this, at 484 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: least the local media. They continue to kind of speculate 485 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: and write about it and investigate, you know, people that 486 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: were on the scene, notably the servants that were in 487 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: the house at the time. 488 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 3: For a little while, they kind of cooked up a 489 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 3: case because. 490 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: It seems like fully about anti Chinese prejudice going on 491 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: in California at the time of her Chinese cook. But 492 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: there was no motive, no evidence at all, So that 493 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 1: kind of went away. And then the police did come in. 494 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: They questioned some of the servants, but everybody was exonerated 495 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: by the cops in the end. 496 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, every single one. So Stanford also hired Stanford the university, 497 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 2: I guess through Jordan hired a private detective and he 498 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 2: did an investigation and basically was like, okay, sure, there 499 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 2: was rat poison in the water. It was added after 500 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 2: the fact for one servant to frame another. And I 501 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 2: don't think any of the servants were named. It was 502 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: just a theory that was like, good enough, We're not 503 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 2: even going to publicize that one. Let's just let this die. Meanwhile, 504 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: Jane Stanford has gone to Hawaii. Remember she's in Waikiki 505 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 2: at the Mowana Hotel, which is still there, and she's 506 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 2: taken two people with her. Bertha Berner, the secretary who's 507 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 2: been with her for years now, who she was like, here, 508 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: you taste this, and a new maid, May Hunter, who 509 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 2: was not I don't believe even on the staff at 510 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 2: the time of that first poisoning attempt. She took both 511 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: of them to Hawaii with her. 512 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, so she's holed up there. We should point out 513 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: that Bernard did not want to go. She had an 514 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: ill mother in California and she wanted to stay and 515 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: be with her. Jane Standard said, nope, You're coming to 516 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: Hawaii with me. 517 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I pointed out her. How Jane Stanford 518 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: went back to Albi need to care for her father 519 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: until he died. 520 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 3: That's right. 521 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: So a couple of weeks into Hawaii. This is February 522 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: twenty eighth. We'll call this a murder, well successful murder, 523 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: not murder attempt number two. She said, hey, I got 524 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: a little upset, Tom Tum, go get me some baking 525 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: soda and water. And Berner went and did that, and 526 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: around eleven o'clock she's not feeling too good. She was like, 527 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm really really sick. I think I've been poisoned again. 528 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: And they call in a local doctor, Francis Humphress, who 529 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: came to the hotel room. And by that time, Jane 530 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: Stanford was in pretty bad shape. 531 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, her, her, she was showing some telltale signs of 532 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 2: Stryck nine poisoning. Remember the somebody put rat poison in 533 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 2: her Poland springs water. That's Stryck nine. And if you 534 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 2: take Strick nine, some very very telltale things uh take 535 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 2: place over your body because Strick nine interferes with your 536 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 2: nerve receptors or your muscle receptors, I guess, along your 537 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 2: spinal column and you suddenly are having like massive, violent, 538 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 2: involuntary muscle clanching. And they followed like certain patterns or whatever. 539 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 2: And Jane was following these these the same I guess 540 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 2: progression of strychnine poisoning is certainly what it looked like. 541 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 2: And ultimately she died with her body clenched still. And 542 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 2: I think she died at eleven forty about but a 543 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 2: little over thirty minutes after she had gotten up and 544 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 2: said she thought she'd been poisoned. 545 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, And well I think that's a perfect time 546 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: actually for back to three to resume. 547 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where the gun goes off. 548 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 3: All right, right after this, we'll be right back. 549 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: If you want to know, then you're in luck. Just 550 00:29:39,480 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 2: listen to johch Seffus no stuffuse no. 551 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: All right, So Jane Stanford is now dead. Her last 552 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: words were this is a horrible death to die, allegedly, 553 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: and Jordan was like, all right, this is no good. 554 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's no good. If she was murdered, it's 555 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: no good. If it was suicide, Like, this is all 556 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: just bad news. We have to kind of get this 557 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: thing taken care of so the university can not be 558 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: tainted by the death of this woman. And he gets 559 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: a trustee. He flies out there with this guy, Timothy Hopkins, 560 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: to Hawaii. They said they were going to get the body, 561 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: and there was also a couple of San Francisco police 562 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: detectives that went, a guy named Harry Reynolds and Jules 563 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: Callendon of the Morse Detective Agency. They go there obviously 564 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: to investigate this death because at the time, Hawaii is 565 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: very rural sort of. I think there wasn't a lot 566 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: of trust and like either the well both the local 567 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: cops and the local doctors. 568 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've been a territory for either three 569 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 2: years or five years. At that point, it was considered 570 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: a backwater essentially. I think also Jordan was getting there 571 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: so he could do whatever he could to control the narrative. 572 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 2: And those two detectives were working at the behest of 573 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 2: the university essentially, not the public. So a coroner's jury 574 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 2: was convened on March eighth. Remember she died on February 575 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 2: twenty eighth, so about a week later, and they heard 576 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 2: three days of testimony. And after the three days of testimony, 577 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: they adjourned for two minutes before they came back and 578 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 2: said she was murdered by poison. 579 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: That's right, But that was no good for Stanford University. 580 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: So Jordan was like, all right, let me see if 581 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: I can rewrite this narrative. He gets another physician in there, 582 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: a guy named doctor Waterhouse, has his own and separate 583 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: private investigation. Waterhouse doesn't examine the body. He just goes 584 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: on the description of events as they happened. He heard 585 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: Berner say, hey, you know, when we were at this picnic, 586 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: she really ate a lot and she had tummy trouble. 587 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: That's why I was getting her that soda water at 588 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: the end of the night. And he put out a 589 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: four page report that said that was fully announced to 590 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: the media, that no, it was not poisoning. She died 591 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: of heart failure, and the local doctor and the local 592 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: cops were pretty furious. 593 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is what Waterhouse came up with, And 594 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 2: this is what Jordan took back to the mainland and 595 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 2: presented to everybody and said, this is what really happened. 596 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 2: This doctor said so that she had overeaten tongue sandwiches, 597 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 2: under cooked gingerbread, lots of coffee, bunch of chocolate candy, 598 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 2: had basically indigestion, made herself hysterical from the indigestion, and 599 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 2: got so hysterical that her heart stopped. That's how she died. 600 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 2: That's basically what President Jordan came back and told the world, 601 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 2: and it actually worked. It worked because he was a 602 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 2: white man in a prominent position, and people just listened 603 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 2: to because who are you going to listen to this 604 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 2: guy or the Hawaii authorities. 605 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, the media was covering in Hawaii, 606 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: the media was covering kind of their side of things. 607 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: But in the lower forty eight, especially in San Francisco, 608 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: that Jordan narrative was the one that got out. He 609 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: was criticizing the local doctors, he was criticizing the local cops. 610 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: He said, in fact, he fled out, accused the local 611 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: doctor there of adding strick nine after the death to 612 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: make it look like a murderer, and said, you know, 613 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: Berner was a very close friend. There's no way that 614 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: she would have been any part. You know, she was 615 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: her trusted secretary for years. There's no way that she 616 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: had any part in any of this. 617 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 2: And again the San Francisco PD and the public and 618 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 2: the press were like, Okay, good enough for us. You 619 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 2: said that the one person who was present at both 620 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 2: poisonings is aoka in your book, Great, she's off the hook. 621 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 2: We're not even going to investigate her thoroughly. 622 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, they kind of went away from there. 623 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, for a little while, the local papers in San 624 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 1: Francisco covered it, you know, they said that there was 625 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: still investigations ongoing and that people you know would be 626 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: brought in and arrested or at least you know, investigated, 627 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: And that lasted for about a month and no charges 628 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,879 Speaker 1: were ultimately filed at all, and it was kind of 629 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: like that's the way it went until the early two thousands. 630 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: It just kind of went cold until a writer named 631 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: Robert W. P. Cutler, who was a neurology professor at 632 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: Stanford and a physician, put out a book called The 633 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: Mysterious Death of Jane Stanford. 634 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was a big deal to question the orthodoxy, 635 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 2: which was, like you said, for a century that she 636 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 2: died of natural causes. That's just what the official line was, 637 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 2: and that's you know, the idea that she'd been poisoned 638 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 2: just completely fell out of the public awareness or imagination 639 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 2: until color brought it back in two thousand and three. 640 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 2: And he was a neurology professor from stanf so he 641 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 2: had like a certain amount of medical background that he 642 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 2: applied into this research. And one of the first things 643 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 2: he did was investigate whether Robert Starr Jordan had any 644 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 2: basis in questioning the qualifications of doctor Humphres and the 645 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 2: other doctors that were there, and he found that no, Actually, 646 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 2: they did a really good job of trying to revive her, 647 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 2: and then they once she was dead, preserving the evidence 648 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 2: because it was so clear to these guys that it 649 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 2: was strychnine poisoning, because she was showing all the telltale signs. 650 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 2: So they preserved evidence in the in the room with her. 651 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 2: They preserved the sodium bicarbonate I guess jar, the spoon, 652 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 2: the glass that had been served in the chamber pot, 653 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 2: and some vomit of hers. 654 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 3: That's gross, it is gross. 655 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 2: But not only did they preserve it, they got a 656 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 2: judge to come in who served as a witness while 657 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,479 Speaker 2: they handed it over to the sheriff. Then the judge 658 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 2: accompanied the sheriff well. He took this evidence to the 659 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 2: chief sanitary officer at the Board of Health for Hawaii. 660 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 2: And when they carried out this autopsy, there were seven 661 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 2: doctors and a toxicologist who worked on this autopsy. Three 662 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 2: of the doctors hadn't been at the scene, so they 663 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 2: hadn't seen They were just working with just the body 664 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 2: and the evidence. That they got from the body, and 665 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 2: they had a mortician and a morge assistant act as witnesses. Essentially, 666 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 2: you could not do a better job of handling a 667 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 2: suspected murder poison case than these guys did in Hawaii. Yeah. 668 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: He also found a letter from Jordan to the president 669 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: of the Board of trustees that had, you know, just 670 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: a lot of different explanations. He said, if the tonic 671 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: theory of strychnine is not acceptable, you have the other 672 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: that it was put in by the doctor just to 673 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: bolster up his case and after he had time to 674 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,879 Speaker 1: read up on the symptoms a little. He's a man 675 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: without professional or personal standing, so he was It seems 676 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: like it was just such a clear cover up that 677 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: he was offering up all these different theories of what 678 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: could have happened besides the obvious. 679 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, and Cutler was like, you know, it is super obvious. 680 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: He didn't come out and like accuse anyone, but he 681 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: did sort of offer some ideas. Maybe Berner, the personal secretary, 682 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: maybe she was there and had the opportunity to do something, 683 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: even though she didn't. 684 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 3: Have much of a motive. 685 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: Jordan certainly had the motive, but he wasn't there, So 686 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 1: maybe those two were in cahoots or something. 687 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 2: Yes, So that's kind of where it's sa at. This 688 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 2: two thousand and three book, The Mysterious Death of Jane Stanford, 689 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 2: it got some pretty good press that's still around today 690 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 2: that you know, book reviews and stories and stuff like that, 691 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 2: and that just kind of faded away again. Even though 692 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 2: he kind of upset the balance that had been around 693 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 2: for one hundred years, there wasn't anything major about it 694 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 2: until about twenty years later. Another book from another Stanford professor, 695 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 2: a historian named Richard White, came out, and he just 696 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 2: came out and said it Who Killed Jane Stanford was 697 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 2: the title of his book, and he, like Cutler, did 698 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 2: a really good job of digging into the story and 699 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,720 Speaker 2: finding new evidence that, as far as he's concerned, pointed 700 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 2: to the murderer. 701 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he said that Jordan definitely covered this 702 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: thing up. But he said, I don't know if he 703 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: would have been the murderer though, because just her dying 704 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: period was not good for the university. You know, either way, 705 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: if it was suicide, that's no good. If it's murder, 706 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: that's certainly no good. So he didn't think that Jordan 707 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: would have gone that far because Jordan really wanted to 708 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: protect Stanford at all costs. 709 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you might be like, well, what's the problem 710 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 2: with that, Well, the murder, that's a scandal. The suicide 711 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 2: was a legal problem because it would call into question 712 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 2: her mental fitness at the time that she had offered 713 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 2: that grant, and so all of a sudden, airs people 714 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 2: connected to him, relatives would have come out of the 715 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 2: woodwork challenging that ten million dollar grant and saying, no, 716 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 2: that money's supposed to go to us instead. So he 717 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 2: really did have every reason to cover this up, and 718 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 2: it definitely seems that that was his motivation, But like 719 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 2: you said, he probably had nothing to do with the murder. Instead. 720 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 2: Richard White trains his spotlight on Bertha Burner and he 721 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 2: disagrees with Cutler who Cutler was like, she didn't really 722 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 2: have a motive, even though she had opportunity. He was like, 723 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 2: they weren't the best motives. But there are a couple 724 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 2: of motives that she had. One, she knew that she 725 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 2: was getting an inheritance and maybe she wanted it sooner 726 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 2: than later. And two, she could have just gotten sick 727 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 2: of basically being having to devote her life to Jane 728 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 2: Stanford because that's what was expected of her. 729 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, the job that she luntarily asked for. 730 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 2: Yes, but Jane Stanford like tried to keep her from 731 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 2: having any kind of personal life, and that was not 732 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 2: the kind of person Bertha Berner was. So that was 733 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 2: just a constant source of tension between them, and who knows. 734 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 2: Supposedly both of them were like, no, we're actually good friends, 735 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 2: but there were people on the outside who were like, 736 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 2: it's kind of I'm not sure if they're actually friends. 737 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: That's right, So that's it. That's the death of Jane 738 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: Stanford probably never be solved. Jordan continued to work there 739 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: as university president until nineteen thirteen. Berner lived pretty well, 740 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 1: you know, because she gotd all that dough from the 741 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: will and she you know, people were suspicious of her, 742 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: but she basically lived a pretty decent life until she 743 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: died in nineteen forty five. 744 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, she wrote two biographies on Jane Stanford before she died, 745 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 2: and neither one of them revealed much of anything. So 746 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 2: it's almost teasing, tantalizing, if you will. 747 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 3: That's it, Well, sist Josh said, that's it. It is 748 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:01,439 Speaker 3: time for listener mail. 749 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: You bet, I'm going to call this weird coincidence because 750 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 1: we have these episodes that come out from time to 751 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: time that line up with the news, and that's what 752 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,919 Speaker 1: happening with our lasers episode. It came out in real 753 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: time today, the day after we learned that a laser 754 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: was used to shoot down a drone at the El 755 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: Paso Airport and close the airport down. 756 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 2: Wow. 757 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:30,800 Speaker 1: So this is Josh and Chucker's equal deep state secures 758 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: chin strap to my tinfoil hat. 759 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 3: I'm officially onto you. Guys. 760 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: You release an episode about lasers the day after the 761 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: FAA closes the El Paso Airport and their cover story is. 762 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,800 Speaker 3: They had to shoot drones with their new lasers. 763 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:44,919 Speaker 1: You might slip this one past some of the other 764 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: sheep listening, but oh no, not this guy. 765 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 3: I want to know who you really worked for. 766 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: Guys, Is it Jerry or does it go all the 767 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: way to the top? Well, consider not blowing the whistle 768 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: on this conspiracy. If you did an episode on bicycles 769 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: or the history of mountain biking. Those my demands, and 770 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: that is from Dan. 771 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 2: Yes, Dan, we work for Jerry. Jerry's actually an acronym 772 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 2: like Specter, but we're not at liberty to say what 773 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 2: it stands for. 774 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 3: I love it. 775 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Dan, you got us figured out. We're 776 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 2: going to have some goons come to your house and 777 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 2: it's not going to be pleasant for you. Maybe that'll 778 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 2: teach you not to email and shoot off your big 779 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 2: mouth from now on. If you want to be like 780 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,879 Speaker 2: Dan and have things happen to you, you can send 781 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 2: us an email too. Send it off to stuff Podcasts 782 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio dot com. 783 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 784 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 785 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,720 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.