WEBVTT - Ex-Logger Aims to Beat Elon Musk in Electric Trucks 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:14.520 Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.919 I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Halloway. Tracy, have you 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:22.960 been following Ellen's Uh, You're gonna have to be more specific, 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.280 you know. I think he kind of has this reputation 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:28.600 and it's kind of worked out for a well of 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:32.640 like promising things that you know, maybe take a while 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.920 to materialize, like eventually they come around, whether it's Twitter, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.240 it's gonna be just like super app and he's gonna 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:40.040 get rid of all the boats. Did he get rid 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.839 of all the boat? Absolutely? If anything, I swear there 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.960 are more than ever. Yeah. I feel like under every 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.320 tweet now there's basically someone chilling Bitcoin, I think. Yeah. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.240 And then at Tesla and again incredible success story, but 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.200 like self driving cars, I think that's been promised for 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.320 a while in some form another at hasn't happened. And 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:03.760 one of the things that somewhere on the road map 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:05.480 but no one really knows when is there's going to 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:10.480 be an electric truck. Yeah, so I know various companies 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.400 have talked about doing this, and I think there isn't 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.000 there a pickup an electric pickup truck. Yeah, there's a 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.720 few of the electric pickup truck. I mean, you know, 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.400 there's the four lightning and so that's started to go. 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.800 But you know, obviously we talked a lot about freight 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.880 on this podcast, and I think there's a long way 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.800 until we get any sort of like electrification. Yeah. I 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.880 mean that's my perception of it, which is when people 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.680 think of electric vehicles, it's usually, you know, it's sort 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.839 of like basic sedan kind of thing, maybbe an suv. 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.760 The trucks are sort of further down the line, and 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:52.160 then when it comes to actual long haul trucks, hardly 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.080 ever hear anyone talk about it. You hear a lot 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.960 when when people talk about technology in trucking, it tends 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.920 to be autonomous driving. Doesn't necessarily seem to be electric 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.320 trucks themselves. Yeah, And of course, you know, there's this 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:09.440 whole infrastructure right associated with trucking, you know, the truck stops, etcetera. 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.560 You have these big fleets, they make purchase commitments, etcetera. 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.040 So even if the technology we're there somehow, and I 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.440 don't really know if it is, it seems like it's 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:22.120 going to be a long way until we get you know, 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:26.360 an electrified trucking fleet if ever. And so while you know, 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:28.880 obviously Tesla at some point wants to plan that there 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.720 are other entities that want that market as well, because 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.320 it's gonna be really big, right And the other thing 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.640 that we've discussed on the show is the difficulty of 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:42.120 rolling out the actual you know, grid needs or electric vehicles, 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.800 and I can imagine with long haul trucks that would 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.680 be even more difficult and potentially extreme, given that a 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:53.240 lot of trucks go to you know, places far off 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.440 in the wilderness. You know, think of things like locking trucks, yes, 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:01.040 and so you know, there are different types of commercial trucking, 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.280 and so you know, you think of the highway and 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:04.800 the trucks you see on the highway, but you know, 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.440 it's very different when there's like a truck that's like 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.079 going up the side of a steep and icy, snowy 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:14.200 mountain and getting logs and going back down, different physical 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.600 demands on the truck itself, given different physical demands on 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.480 the driver. Anyway, we're kind of gonna emerge these two topics, 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.880 like different types of trucks, what can be electrified? Why 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.120 try to understand a little bit more about the commercial 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.560 trucking infrastructure, and not just the highway the highway vehicles 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.120 that we know we're gonna do logging. We're gonna do uh, 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.000 we're gonna do electric logging trucks. But you know what, 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.400 I have an interest in logging out because a tree 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.880 fell down in my backyard, a big tree, a couple 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.440 of weeks ago, and I'm trying to figure out how 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.040 to move it. And once once I move it, i 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.480 i too will be a logger. Well this is perfect 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:54.880 because we have the perfect guess who can probably tell 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.960 you all about moving your log off of your property. 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.280 We're gonna be speaking with Chase Barber, who is the 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.720 CEO of Edison Motors. It's a small startup aiming to 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:10.240 electrify the trucking market. And he was also a logger. 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:14.040 He drove trucks that moved logs and so he's familiar 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:19.960 with that world trucker, logger, electric vehicle entrepreneur. Chase BARBERA, 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.320 thank you so much for coming on Odd Lots. Oh 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.640 you bet ya. Thanks for having me on here. Quite 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.080 a combo there, they are not. I feel like there 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:34.359 are not many vehicle entrepreneurs who pivoted from having driven 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.920 vehicles themselves. I don't professionally, is that it seems rare 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.360 to me. Uh, it was really common back in the 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:45.880 nineties hundred years ago, super common. Nowadays it is a 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.039 little bit more rare. Yeah, So what do you actually 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.800 before we even get to your company, Edison Motors, what 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.080 do you tell us a little bit about your background 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:57.960 and like how you got into trucking and what you 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:02.000 did in trucking. Okay, Well, I was one of those 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.880 guys that I knew, like way back in grade one. 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:06.760 Like if you do with those things in like grade 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.400 one kindergarten. Uh, They're like, what do you want to 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.799 be when you grow up? I wrote down, truck driver. 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.880 That's what I was gonna do after high school. I uh, 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:17.680 I actually I was too young. So I joined the 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.719 army for a couple of years and then went through there, 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.320 drove truck after it, and drove truck till I was 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:28.039 about twenty two twenty three, went to university, drove truck 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.920 all through the summer because it's a fantastic, well paying 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.720 job while you're going to university in the summer. And 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.640 I did incredibly well. I did a degree in economics 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.479 and four point o g P a straight a's and 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:44.840 I got super angry. After doing four years of straight a's, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.320 I got a job offer for forty five thousand dollars 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.880 and the summer before I was driving truck in the 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.720 oil patch. I made fifty thousand dollars in four months. 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:59.920 And now, and after four years at university doing a 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.440 incredibly well, I got second place at the Bank of 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.320 Canada Economic Forecasting Challenge. And that's the job offer you get. 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.839 I'm like, I could make more working a third of 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.000 the year than I did through all this. So we 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.800 uh went with my buddy Eric, it has been my 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.599 business partner for the last six years since university. Now 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.320 and we put the last of our student loans together. 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.599 We bought a nineteen sixty nine Kenworth that had been 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.960 sitting in a farmer's field like a fifty year old 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.440 truck with the last of our student loans for five 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.880 thousand dollars and we uh we set out as a 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.200 trucking company. Oh, I love this already. UM. I have 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.440 a bunch of questions, but maybe I mean, I didn't 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.720 know that you had an economics degree. Is that something 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.800 that's been useful to you as a truck driver? If 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.640 you're an owner operator, just having an economics background help 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.080 you think about that business. Oh yeah, one of the 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.120 reasons I went to school and full full disclosure, I 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.840 failed my first time when I was twenty one. It 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.720 was back in two thousand and eight, the financial collapse there. 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.520 I had just started out as an owner operator, bought 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.440 myself a truck, saved up for like a year and 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.200 a half, bought myself a truck, did not know enough 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.000 about business, and got wiped out onto my ass on 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.280 the phone. I just made enough money that I was 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.480 able to walk away from the truck with I think 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.160 I had like twenty grand left in my pocket after 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.000 selling the truck and working for like six months eight 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.480 months before doing it. And that's what made me I'll decide. 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.040 I'm like, okay, I'm going back to school. At the 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.640 very least I'll have enough knowledge to not be in 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.840 this situation. Again, we mentioned in the beginning you're a lagger. 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:39.240 You drove truck, specifically hauling lugs. How is that different 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.280 than typical over the highway freight. It pays a lot 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:49.000 better that it's there. You don't find a lot of 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.920 people willing to do it. It's it is probably one 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.680 of the harshest demanding jobs on a truck out on 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.720 the West coast, especially in Canada. We get forty below 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.640 in the winter, fifty fort above in the summer. So 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:06.120 what's that for negative forty negative fifty degrees fahrenheit in 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:07.920 the winter, and then we get up to a hundred 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.640 and ten degrees in the summer. And we are on 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.280 steep slopes. So a US a truck in the US 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.800 is about eighty thou pounds, that's maximum weight limit. A 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.120 truck up in Canada goes to a hundred and fifty 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.400 thousand pounds, so we're almost double the weight. You have 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:30.800 incredibly steep grades. We're talking on an average highway. A 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.520 really steep highway grade is ten. We're running up to 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.800 grades three times steeper than a steep highway hill with 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.720 over twice the way it is. And then you're doing 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:46.240 that in the snow. Oh my gosh. So you know 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.319 you mentioned that you bought your first truck. I think 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:54.160 you said it was Kenworth from a field somewhere. And 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.560 one thing I've always wondered is when you're a truck driver, 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:02.760 or say you become an owner operator or whatever, how 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:07.000 do you actually go about selecting your vehicle and what 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:11.600 are there characteristics that you're looking for. I assume you know, 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.079 if you're logging, it probably requires a different vehicle too. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.360 If you're hauling, you know, retail goods or something like that. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.400 But how do you actually make that decision? Well, first 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.520 you figure out how much money you have. In our case, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.160 we had ten thousand dollars and we know that the 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.679 startup cost were at least half of the truck, so 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.400 we had a budget of five grants, so that really 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.280 narrowed that decision down a lot. We had a pretty 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.400 good mechanical background, knowledge able to work on things. So 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.400 my biggest criteria selecting a truck is that I need 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.480 a truck that I can work on. That was one 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.360 of the issues I had the first time is that 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.440 whenever it needed service, it had to go into a shop. 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.840 I said, Okay, I'll get something that's really old, doesn't 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.520 have a single computer, and then hopefully I can fix 0:09:54.559 --> 0:10:15.200 everything myself. Is there a difference in this sort of 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:20.480 like design choices of a truck for logging versus uh 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:24.560 typical freight truck. I have to imagine on the way down, 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.520 particularly you're riding the break a lot more. You know, 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.200 you have to be able to make turns, etcetera. And 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.679 then I think maybe maybe I even read it something 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.719 that you had written about you mentioned, you know, being 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.040 able to work on it. I have to imagine that, 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.960 like up on a mountain, it's much more important to 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.880 be able to like go in and fix your own truck, 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.240 especially if you're like not near any sort of truck 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.320 stop or mechanics stop or or mechanic shop or a 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.680 toad company or anything like that. Oh, it's incredibly important. 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:01.320 When you're up in remote areas in Canada, it's logging 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.240 beats the hell out of equipment. It's just there's nothing. 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.720 You're off highway with twice the legal highway weight, so 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.360 you're heavy, you're on rough roads, you're in mud rock, 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:17.080 and it will just absolutely destroy the truck. And because 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.040 of that, you need to be able to service it. 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.760 Your ten hours twelve hours into a bush. You're not 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:24.719 getting a tow truck out there. You've got to be 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.800 able to fix it where it's at. And that's one 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.960 of the reasons why the trucks tend to be heavier, specked, 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:37.920 thicker frame rails more reinforced suspension, reinforced brackets. They're way 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.360 more they're more expensive, but they're also built a lot tougher. 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.320 It's there's a reason why that truck from the nineteen 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.079 sixties was still able to go back to work. Actually, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.240 the guy we bought it off of bought it brand new. 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.199 His name is Bob Murphy. He bought it brand new 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.240 back in nineteen sixty nine when he was in his 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.800 early twenties, and he drove that one truck his entire career. 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.880 If that shows you the quality city that these trucks 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.240 are made to. So this sort of like the bones 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.480 of the truck, so to speak. It's it's just really 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.880 important that it be heavy duty. The insides can be 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:16.400 upgraded or you know, worked on, but uh, if you 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.480 have good bones, if it's thick, if it's strong, then 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.760 you can use them in the log hauling game for 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.280 a long time. Yeah, good bones strong And then the 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.840 other the biggest critical thing is that they use a 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.840 lot of common parts that we've got gotten away from 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.760 and manufacturing today. Is that a freight liner, a Western Star, 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.640 ken Worth, a Peter Belt, All the big brands shared 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.840 components for their heavy speck trucks. It was the same 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.720 Vicker steering box across all of them. The gauges were 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.320 the same. You could have this commonality of parts where 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.920 you could take parts from one truck and put them 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.920 into another truck. Actually that was largely in part thanks 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.400 to the U. S. Military, But that's a whole other story. Well, 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.400 this is exactly what I wanted to ask you about, 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.080 because you book about how it was important that you 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.559 were able to repair the truck yourself. And I know 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.480 that in farming equipment there's this whole debate about right 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.800 to repair, and a lot of farmers are upset that 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.520 tractors are so computerized nowadays. They can't fix them on 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.600 their own. They have to take them somewhere, and it's 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.559 really expensive to get stuff fixed. I think in some 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.439 cases that even have to pay subscription fees for software 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.640 and stuff like that. To what extent is that happening 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.160 in trucking. Do you have a lot more computerization and 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.440 maybe even subscription type services in trucks. Oh, it's the 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.280 exact same as the tractor issue. In the trucks um 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.280 you throw fault codes, you get a check engine light, 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.199 it'll de rate your motor. So you only have fifty 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.120 of your power, and you have to take it into 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.199 a shop where they hook it up to a computer. 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.320 They charge you three dollars just to hook it onto 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.360 a computer. They press a button that says clear fault code, 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:55.960 and they send you back out the door until it 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:59.120 happens again, and it's there's nothing you can do about it. 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.120 If you want a new truck, you have to deal 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.280 with that. There's a ton of sensors over the whole thing, 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.920 and you, as the owner of the truck, have no 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.840 ability to know really know what those sensors are saying, 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.480 no idea to read the fault codes, no way to 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.079 clear them. You have to go back to the dealership 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.240 and pay that money. You know. I want to get 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:22.240 more into the economics of all this and the manufacturing 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.560 and all that, in particularly your company. But what was 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:31.000 the most terrifying? Do you have the most terrible? Yeah? 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:37.400 Do you have a most terrifying day out on the mountains? Oh? Yeah? Um, 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:42.000 So I was coming down this like grade A hundred 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:45.400 and fifty thousand pounds on. I had my truck chained up. 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.880 I didn't have my trailer chained up, and I'm coming 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.560 down and all of a sudden, even with two sets 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.560 of chains on, it was so icy that it just 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.560 starts taking off down this hill. And there is a 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.080 immediate one degree corner, and it like it's a hundred 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.120 feet two hundred feet off the bank if you don't 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.960 make this corner. And in order to stay ahead of 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.160 my trailer, the road is only just as wide as 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.200 the truck. It's a cut block, like they made it 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.120 just wide enough for a truck to get down. And 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.680 I'm grabbing gears to try and stay away in front 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.480 of my trailer. So what I do is like I 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.280 pull this trailer spike. It starts going off the bank 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.880 on the left, so I let it go kick it 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.320 back over until that trailer comes on the right side. 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.360 And I stuffed my trailer into the snow bank so 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.520 that it acted as a big snowplow. That big snowplow 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.960 snallowed me down enough with drag that as able to 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.160 make the corner and get down the next thing without 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.120 going around it. But that was one of the scarier 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.920 moments I had. I think I'm visualizing that all right now. 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.520 I just stressed me like listening to that and just 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.280 envisioning all that. Oh last summer we had one. The 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.120 road was only like I had six inches on each 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.280 side of my truck. It was over a thousand feet 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.720 down into the lake, blasted into the hard rock, and 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.000 the road was crumbling down. In order to make it 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.960 around the corner, you hung the outside duel of your 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.760 tire off of this cliff face, like the outside duel 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:11.560 on the trailer overhung the cliff. That's that's how close 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.480 we were on that hall stressing. Yeah, this is very stressful. 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.880 I have one more logging question, and it might be 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:22.200 a basic one, but to what extent is the business 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.400 of being a logging truck driver tied to the lumber 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.520 business in Canada? So you know, if if things are 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.120 booming with the lumber business, if there's tons of demand 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.880 for wood for housing construction or whatever, does that tend 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:41.480 to translate into more activity for truckers. Oh? Absolutely. If 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:45.200 the price the lumber goes up, then the mill wants 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.920 to make more lumber, produce more lumbers, so the demand 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:52.040 for logs go up, which they're willing to pay a 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.800 better rate so that more trucks get out into the bush. 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.640 They'll increase the cycle times. When things slow down, like 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.760 right now, the lumber has fallen. There's a lot of 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.000 truck drivers who have parked their trucks for the last 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.040 three weeks just because there is it's a very boom 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.920 and bust on that lumber price. Yeah, that's my impression 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:12.359 of it. And then the other thing I want to 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.480 ask you is, when there is a boom in lumber 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.560 slash locking, do a lot of truck drivers can they 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:22.680 switch between being you know, a basic long haul truck 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:27.200 driver to going into locking or does it require specialized 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.960 equipment and trucks like you described and experience. Yeah, so 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.200 logging does require specialized equipment. These are heavy spec trucks 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.040 and a lot of the time because you need the 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.480 room for logs, they don't have sleepers. You can't really 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.600 do long haul, so when it goes down, these trucks 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:48.919 quite often sit unfortunately. Oh I see. So that what 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:53.879 about like, you know, in terms of specialized training, other 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:58.320 specific licenses or programs or schools, like, how does one 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.080 make the switch, especially since, as you point out, because 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:05.919 it's specialized, the pay is higher. Yeah, the there's no 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:10.720 specialized training to drive logging truck. You basically figure it 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.679 out on the job. That's the only way to do 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:15.440 it is most people when they're new, they start in 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.640 the summer without the snow and then they just transition 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:23.639 going forward. But it's but because it is specialized and 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.200 it is a stressful job. I think it's the only 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.879 job I've ever had where I've been driving at five thinking, 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:34.160 holy crap, I'm going waiting. I have one more logging 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:38.560 specific question. Actually, you know, we got your contact from 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:43.160 previous guest Gordon McGill, and actually that conversation was kind 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:47.760 of largely sent around centered around waiting and waiting for 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.000 trucks to be loaded and unloaded with logging. Is there 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.520 a similar phenomenon and it just the driver play a 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.720 role in loading up his or her truck. Out here, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.960 normally the driver doesn't play a low role in loading 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:07.840 the truck. We have dedicated loaderman and normally there's not 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.000 a big weight time. They know you know what trucks 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.560 you're getting, and they schedule it. Okay, we want this 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.480 guy here at five am, five thirty six, six thirty seven. 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.520 They just give loading times to win all that they 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.439 want the truck showing up. So unless they're it's taking 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.960 longer to load or the machine's got to walk a 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.600 little bit. You normally don't have much of a weight 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.480 time because it's all about the mill and the logging 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.960 company is trying to make it as efficient as possible 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:33.919 to get these trucks into the mill. They're paying by 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.280 the hour, and I've always been a big advocate that's 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.640 why trucking should be by the hour. When a company 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.680 is paying by the hour to have a truck, they 0:19:42.760 --> 0:20:03.200 get trucks out real quick. So let's talk about your company, 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.720 Edison Motors. So what is it. Yeah, we're a company 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.520 that's making electric We started out electric logging trucks and 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:16.720 now we've expanded into electric vocational trucks the entire vocational industry. 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.400 Can you talk about what the opportunity was that you spotted, 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.960 Because when you describe logging trucks as these specialized heavy 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.000 duty vehicles that you know, to some extent people need 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.440 them to be kind of simple, easy to fix and maintain, 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:37.560 it doesn't necessarily scream like opportunity for electrification. So so 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:42.879 what's the thought process there? Okay, Well, we've been a 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.480 big fan of kind of electric vehicles and we reserved 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:47.679 a test less semi a long time ago. Because my 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:52.000 thought process was if you're coming downhill like here, you 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.120 go up the mountain empty and you come downloaded electric 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.199 vehicle average enitor breaking, So you're recharging your batteries when 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.359 you're going down in order to power the truck to 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.040 go back up the mountain empty. You're basically using that 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.399 stored potential energy of the logs at the top of 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.040 the mountain to fuel the vehicle to go back up 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.159 the mountain. So that was where we first started, and 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.040 then we started looking into it and the battery wasn't enough. 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:21.760 The Tesla semi has a one megawatt battery logging truck. 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.359 When you do the math on it uses about two 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:31.040 point five megawatts of power. So the largest battery in 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.040 any electric semi you would need two and a half 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:38.800 times that weight. And that truck already weighs five thousand pounds. 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.680 Doubling over doubling that weight is going to put you 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.320 over legal axle weight. You wouldn't be able to haul 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:49.040 any freight. So then talk to us about how you 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:54.800 solve the problem. You've started, Uh, it's still very early days. 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.840 You've been retrofitting old trucks like electrifying them. Talk to 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.639 us about like how you solve the problem or what 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.879 specifically that you do to the old trucks. We basically 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.439 put in a diesel generator. Is had the idea. In 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:10.960 addition to logging, we did a lot of hybrid power 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.919 systems where we would take solar batteries, bring them up 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:16.680 to a mine or a remote community that was running 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.280 off diesel and we would optimize their grid. That's part 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:23.239 of the other side of our trucking business, and we 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:25.040 realized that a truck was a lot of the same 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:28.360 of this community. So this one project we did where 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.719 the AHA moment really came into it is that small 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:35.440 place up near the Yukon border First Nations Reserve running 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:39.800 off diesel. They were running a nine kilowatt generator because 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.240 they had a huge peak load demand. Everyone would get 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.280 home from work, turn on all their appliances at the 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.200 same time five o'clock, big peak load demand for an 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:49.680 hour or so on that grid. They needed a nine 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:54.240 generator to meet that load demand. However, the average load 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.800 was only like twenty kilowatts. That's a watts. So what 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:01.040