1 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Halloway. Tracy, have you 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: been following Ellen's Uh, You're gonna have to be more specific, 4 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: you know. I think he kind of has this reputation 5 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: and it's kind of worked out for a well of 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: like promising things that you know, maybe take a while 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: to materialize, like eventually they come around, whether it's Twitter, 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: it's gonna be just like super app and he's gonna 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: get rid of all the boats. Did he get rid 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: of all the boat? Absolutely? If anything, I swear there 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: are more than ever. Yeah. I feel like under every 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: tweet now there's basically someone chilling Bitcoin, I think. Yeah. 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: And then at Tesla and again incredible success story, but 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: like self driving cars, I think that's been promised for 15 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: a while in some form another at hasn't happened. And 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that somewhere on the road map 17 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: but no one really knows when is there's going to 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: be an electric truck. Yeah, so I know various companies 19 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: have talked about doing this, and I think there isn't 20 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: there a pickup an electric pickup truck. Yeah, there's a 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: few of the electric pickup truck. I mean, you know, 22 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: there's the four lightning and so that's started to go. 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: But you know, obviously we talked a lot about freight 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: on this podcast, and I think there's a long way 25 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: until we get any sort of like electrification. Yeah. I 26 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: mean that's my perception of it, which is when people 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: think of electric vehicles, it's usually, you know, it's sort 28 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: of like basic sedan kind of thing, maybbe an suv. 29 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: The trucks are sort of further down the line, and 30 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: then when it comes to actual long haul trucks, hardly 31 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: ever hear anyone talk about it. You hear a lot 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: when when people talk about technology in trucking, it tends 33 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: to be autonomous driving. Doesn't necessarily seem to be electric 34 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: trucks themselves. Yeah, And of course, you know, there's this 35 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: whole infrastructure right associated with trucking, you know, the truck stops, etcetera. 36 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: You have these big fleets, they make purchase commitments, etcetera. 37 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: So even if the technology we're there somehow, and I 38 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: don't really know if it is, it seems like it's 39 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: going to be a long way until we get you know, 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: an electrified trucking fleet if ever. And so while you know, 41 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: obviously Tesla at some point wants to plan that there 42 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: are other entities that want that market as well, because 43 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: it's gonna be really big, right And the other thing 44 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: that we've discussed on the show is the difficulty of 45 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: rolling out the actual you know, grid needs or electric vehicles, 46 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: and I can imagine with long haul trucks that would 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: be even more difficult and potentially extreme, given that a 48 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: lot of trucks go to you know, places far off 49 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: in the wilderness. You know, think of things like locking trucks, yes, 50 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: and so you know, there are different types of commercial trucking, 51 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: and so you know, you think of the highway and 52 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: the trucks you see on the highway, but you know, 53 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: it's very different when there's like a truck that's like 54 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: going up the side of a steep and icy, snowy 55 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: mountain and getting logs and going back down, different physical 56 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: demands on the truck itself, given different physical demands on 57 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: the driver. Anyway, we're kind of gonna emerge these two topics, 58 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: like different types of trucks, what can be electrified? Why 59 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: try to understand a little bit more about the commercial 60 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: trucking infrastructure, and not just the highway the highway vehicles 61 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: that we know we're gonna do logging. We're gonna do uh, 62 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna do electric logging trucks. But you know what, 63 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: I have an interest in logging out because a tree 64 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: fell down in my backyard, a big tree, a couple 65 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: of weeks ago, and I'm trying to figure out how 66 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: to move it. And once once I move it, i 67 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: i too will be a logger. Well this is perfect 68 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: because we have the perfect guess who can probably tell 69 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: you all about moving your log off of your property. 70 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: We're gonna be speaking with Chase Barber, who is the 71 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: CEO of Edison Motors. It's a small startup aiming to 72 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: electrify the trucking market. And he was also a logger. 73 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: He drove trucks that moved logs and so he's familiar 74 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: with that world trucker, logger, electric vehicle entrepreneur. Chase BARBERA, 75 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on Odd Lots. Oh 76 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: you bet ya. Thanks for having me on here. Quite 77 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: a combo there, they are not. I feel like there 78 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: are not many vehicle entrepreneurs who pivoted from having driven 79 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: vehicles themselves. I don't professionally, is that it seems rare 80 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: to me. Uh, it was really common back in the 81 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: nineties hundred years ago, super common. Nowadays it is a 82 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: little bit more rare. Yeah, So what do you actually 83 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: before we even get to your company, Edison Motors, what 84 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: do you tell us a little bit about your background 85 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: and like how you got into trucking and what you 86 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: did in trucking. Okay, Well, I was one of those 87 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: guys that I knew, like way back in grade one. 88 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: Like if you do with those things in like grade 89 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: one kindergarten. Uh, They're like, what do you want to 90 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,799 Speaker 1: be when you grow up? I wrote down, truck driver. 91 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna do after high school. I uh, 92 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: I actually I was too young. So I joined the 93 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: army for a couple of years and then went through there, 94 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: drove truck after it, and drove truck till I was 95 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: about twenty two twenty three, went to university, drove truck 96 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: all through the summer because it's a fantastic, well paying 97 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: job while you're going to university in the summer. And 98 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: I did incredibly well. I did a degree in economics 99 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: and four point o g P a straight a's and 100 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: I got super angry. After doing four years of straight a's, 101 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: I got a job offer for forty five thousand dollars 102 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: and the summer before I was driving truck in the 103 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: oil patch. I made fifty thousand dollars in four months. 104 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: And now, and after four years at university doing a 105 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: incredibly well, I got second place at the Bank of 106 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: Canada Economic Forecasting Challenge. And that's the job offer you get. 107 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: I'm like, I could make more working a third of 108 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: the year than I did through all this. So we 109 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: uh went with my buddy Eric, it has been my 110 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: business partner for the last six years since university. Now 111 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: and we put the last of our student loans together. 112 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: We bought a nineteen sixty nine Kenworth that had been 113 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: sitting in a farmer's field like a fifty year old 114 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: truck with the last of our student loans for five 115 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: thousand dollars and we uh we set out as a 116 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: trucking company. Oh, I love this already. UM. I have 117 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of questions, but maybe I mean, I didn't 118 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: know that you had an economics degree. Is that something 119 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: that's been useful to you as a truck driver? If 120 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: you're an owner operator, just having an economics background help 121 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: you think about that business. Oh yeah, one of the 122 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: reasons I went to school and full full disclosure, I 123 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: failed my first time when I was twenty one. It 124 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: was back in two thousand and eight, the financial collapse there. 125 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: I had just started out as an owner operator, bought 126 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: myself a truck, saved up for like a year and 127 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: a half, bought myself a truck, did not know enough 128 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: about business, and got wiped out onto my ass on 129 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: the phone. I just made enough money that I was 130 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: able to walk away from the truck with I think 131 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: I had like twenty grand left in my pocket after 132 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: selling the truck and working for like six months eight 133 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: months before doing it. And that's what made me I'll decide. 134 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I'm going back to school. At the 135 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: very least I'll have enough knowledge to not be in 136 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: this situation. Again, we mentioned in the beginning you're a lagger. 137 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: You drove truck, specifically hauling lugs. How is that different 138 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: than typical over the highway freight. It pays a lot 139 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: better that it's there. You don't find a lot of 140 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: people willing to do it. It's it is probably one 141 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: of the harshest demanding jobs on a truck out on 142 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: the West coast, especially in Canada. We get forty below 143 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: in the winter, fifty fort above in the summer. So 144 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: what's that for negative forty negative fifty degrees fahrenheit in 145 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: the winter, and then we get up to a hundred 146 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: and ten degrees in the summer. And we are on 147 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: steep slopes. So a US a truck in the US 148 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: is about eighty thou pounds, that's maximum weight limit. A 149 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: truck up in Canada goes to a hundred and fifty 150 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: thousand pounds, so we're almost double the weight. You have 151 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: incredibly steep grades. We're talking on an average highway. A 152 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: really steep highway grade is ten. We're running up to 153 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: grades three times steeper than a steep highway hill with 154 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: over twice the way it is. And then you're doing 155 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: that in the snow. Oh my gosh. So you know 156 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: you mentioned that you bought your first truck. I think 157 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: you said it was Kenworth from a field somewhere. And 158 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: one thing I've always wondered is when you're a truck driver, 159 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: or say you become an owner operator or whatever, how 160 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: do you actually go about selecting your vehicle and what 161 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: are there characteristics that you're looking for. I assume you know, 162 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: if you're logging, it probably requires a different vehicle too. 163 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: If you're hauling, you know, retail goods or something like that. 164 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: But how do you actually make that decision? Well, first 165 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: you figure out how much money you have. In our case, 166 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: we had ten thousand dollars and we know that the 167 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: startup cost were at least half of the truck, so 168 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: we had a budget of five grants, so that really 169 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: narrowed that decision down a lot. We had a pretty 170 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: good mechanical background, knowledge able to work on things. So 171 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: my biggest criteria selecting a truck is that I need 172 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: a truck that I can work on. That was one 173 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: of the issues I had the first time is that 174 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: whenever it needed service, it had to go into a shop. 175 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: I said, Okay, I'll get something that's really old, doesn't 176 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: have a single computer, and then hopefully I can fix 177 00:09:54,559 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: everything myself. Is there a difference in this sort of 178 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: like design choices of a truck for logging versus uh 179 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: typical freight truck. I have to imagine on the way down, 180 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: particularly you're riding the break a lot more. You know, 181 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: you have to be able to make turns, etcetera. And 182 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: then I think maybe maybe I even read it something 183 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: that you had written about you mentioned, you know, being 184 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: able to work on it. I have to imagine that, 185 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: like up on a mountain, it's much more important to 186 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: be able to like go in and fix your own truck, 187 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: especially if you're like not near any sort of truck 188 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: stop or mechanics stop or or mechanic shop or a 189 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: toad company or anything like that. Oh, it's incredibly important. 190 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: When you're up in remote areas in Canada, it's logging 191 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: beats the hell out of equipment. It's just there's nothing. 192 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: You're off highway with twice the legal highway weight, so 193 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: you're heavy, you're on rough roads, you're in mud rock, 194 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: and it will just absolutely destroy the truck. And because 195 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: of that, you need to be able to service it. 196 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: Your ten hours twelve hours into a bush. You're not 197 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: getting a tow truck out there. You've got to be 198 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: able to fix it where it's at. And that's one 199 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: of the reasons why the trucks tend to be heavier, specked, 200 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: thicker frame rails more reinforced suspension, reinforced brackets. They're way 201 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: more they're more expensive, but they're also built a lot tougher. 202 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: It's there's a reason why that truck from the nineteen 203 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: sixties was still able to go back to work. Actually, 204 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: the guy we bought it off of bought it brand new. 205 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: His name is Bob Murphy. He bought it brand new 206 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: back in nineteen sixty nine when he was in his 207 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: early twenties, and he drove that one truck his entire career. 208 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: If that shows you the quality city that these trucks 209 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: are made to. So this sort of like the bones 210 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: of the truck, so to speak. It's it's just really 211 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: important that it be heavy duty. The insides can be 212 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: upgraded or you know, worked on, but uh, if you 213 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: have good bones, if it's thick, if it's strong, then 214 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: you can use them in the log hauling game for 215 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: a long time. Yeah, good bones strong And then the 216 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: other the biggest critical thing is that they use a 217 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: lot of common parts that we've got gotten away from 218 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: and manufacturing today. Is that a freight liner, a Western Star, 219 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: ken Worth, a Peter Belt, All the big brands shared 220 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: components for their heavy speck trucks. It was the same 221 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: Vicker steering box across all of them. The gauges were 222 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: the same. You could have this commonality of parts where 223 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: you could take parts from one truck and put them 224 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: into another truck. Actually that was largely in part thanks 225 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: to the U. S. Military, But that's a whole other story. Well, 226 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: this is exactly what I wanted to ask you about, 227 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: because you book about how it was important that you 228 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: were able to repair the truck yourself. And I know 229 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: that in farming equipment there's this whole debate about right 230 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: to repair, and a lot of farmers are upset that 231 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: tractors are so computerized nowadays. They can't fix them on 232 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: their own. They have to take them somewhere, and it's 233 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: really expensive to get stuff fixed. I think in some 234 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: cases that even have to pay subscription fees for software 235 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. To what extent is that happening 236 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: in trucking. Do you have a lot more computerization and 237 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: maybe even subscription type services in trucks. Oh, it's the 238 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: exact same as the tractor issue. In the trucks um 239 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: you throw fault codes, you get a check engine light, 240 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: it'll de rate your motor. So you only have fifty 241 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: of your power, and you have to take it into 242 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: a shop where they hook it up to a computer. 243 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: They charge you three dollars just to hook it onto 244 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: a computer. They press a button that says clear fault code, 245 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: and they send you back out the door until it 246 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: happens again, and it's there's nothing you can do about it. 247 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: If you want a new truck, you have to deal 248 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: with that. There's a ton of sensors over the whole thing, 249 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: and you, as the owner of the truck, have no 250 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: ability to know really know what those sensors are saying, 251 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: no idea to read the fault codes, no way to 252 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: clear them. You have to go back to the dealership 253 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: and pay that money. You know. I want to get 254 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: more into the economics of all this and the manufacturing 255 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: and all that, in particularly your company. But what was 256 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: the most terrifying? Do you have the most terrible? Yeah? 257 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: Do you have a most terrifying day out on the mountains? Oh? Yeah? Um, 258 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: So I was coming down this like grade A hundred 259 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand pounds on. I had my truck chained up. 260 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: I didn't have my trailer chained up, and I'm coming 261 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: down and all of a sudden, even with two sets 262 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: of chains on, it was so icy that it just 263 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: starts taking off down this hill. And there is a 264 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: immediate one degree corner, and it like it's a hundred 265 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: feet two hundred feet off the bank if you don't 266 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: make this corner. And in order to stay ahead of 267 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: my trailer, the road is only just as wide as 268 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: the truck. It's a cut block, like they made it 269 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: just wide enough for a truck to get down. And 270 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm grabbing gears to try and stay away in front 271 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: of my trailer. So what I do is like I 272 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: pull this trailer spike. It starts going off the bank 273 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: on the left, so I let it go kick it 274 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: back over until that trailer comes on the right side. 275 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: And I stuffed my trailer into the snow bank so 276 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: that it acted as a big snowplow. That big snowplow 277 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: snallowed me down enough with drag that as able to 278 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: make the corner and get down the next thing without 279 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: going around it. But that was one of the scarier 280 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: moments I had. I think I'm visualizing that all right now. 281 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: I just stressed me like listening to that and just 282 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: envisioning all that. Oh last summer we had one. The 283 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: road was only like I had six inches on each 284 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: side of my truck. It was over a thousand feet 285 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: down into the lake, blasted into the hard rock, and 286 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: the road was crumbling down. In order to make it 287 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: around the corner, you hung the outside duel of your 288 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: tire off of this cliff face, like the outside duel 289 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: on the trailer overhung the cliff. That's that's how close 290 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: we were on that hall stressing. Yeah, this is very stressful. 291 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: I have one more logging question, and it might be 292 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: a basic one, but to what extent is the business 293 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: of being a logging truck driver tied to the lumber 294 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: business in Canada? So you know, if if things are 295 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: booming with the lumber business, if there's tons of demand 296 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: for wood for housing construction or whatever, does that tend 297 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: to translate into more activity for truckers. Oh? Absolutely. If 298 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: the price the lumber goes up, then the mill wants 299 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: to make more lumber, produce more lumbers, so the demand 300 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: for logs go up, which they're willing to pay a 301 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: better rate so that more trucks get out into the bush. 302 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: They'll increase the cycle times. When things slow down, like 303 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: right now, the lumber has fallen. There's a lot of 304 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: truck drivers who have parked their trucks for the last 305 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: three weeks just because there is it's a very boom 306 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: and bust on that lumber price. Yeah, that's my impression 307 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: of it. And then the other thing I want to 308 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: ask you is, when there is a boom in lumber 309 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: slash locking, do a lot of truck drivers can they 310 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: switch between being you know, a basic long haul truck 311 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: driver to going into locking or does it require specialized 312 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: equipment and trucks like you described and experience. Yeah, so 313 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: logging does require specialized equipment. These are heavy spec trucks 314 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: and a lot of the time because you need the 315 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: room for logs, they don't have sleepers. You can't really 316 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: do long haul, so when it goes down, these trucks 317 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: quite often sit unfortunately. Oh I see. So that what 318 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: about like, you know, in terms of specialized training, other 319 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: specific licenses or programs or schools, like, how does one 320 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: make the switch, especially since, as you point out, because 321 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: it's specialized, the pay is higher. Yeah, the there's no 322 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: specialized training to drive logging truck. You basically figure it 323 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: out on the job. That's the only way to do 324 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: it is most people when they're new, they start in 325 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: the summer without the snow and then they just transition 326 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: going forward. But it's but because it is specialized and 327 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: it is a stressful job. I think it's the only 328 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: job I've ever had where I've been driving at five thinking, 329 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: holy crap, I'm going waiting. I have one more logging 330 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: specific question. Actually, you know, we got your contact from 331 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: previous guest Gordon McGill, and actually that conversation was kind 332 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: of largely sent around centered around waiting and waiting for 333 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: trucks to be loaded and unloaded with logging. Is there 334 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: a similar phenomenon and it just the driver play a 335 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: role in loading up his or her truck. Out here, 336 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: normally the driver doesn't play a low role in loading 337 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: the truck. We have dedicated loaderman and normally there's not 338 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: a big weight time. They know you know what trucks 339 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: you're getting, and they schedule it. Okay, we want this 340 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: guy here at five am, five thirty six, six thirty seven. 341 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: They just give loading times to win all that they 342 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: want the truck showing up. So unless they're it's taking 343 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: longer to load or the machine's got to walk a 344 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: little bit. You normally don't have much of a weight 345 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: time because it's all about the mill and the logging 346 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: company is trying to make it as efficient as possible 347 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: to get these trucks into the mill. They're paying by 348 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: the hour, and I've always been a big advocate that's 349 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: why trucking should be by the hour. When a company 350 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: is paying by the hour to have a truck, they 351 00:19:42,760 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: get trucks out real quick. So let's talk about your company, 352 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: Edison Motors. So what is it. Yeah, we're a company 353 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: that's making electric We started out electric logging trucks and 354 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: now we've expanded into electric vocational trucks the entire vocational industry. 355 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: Can you talk about what the opportunity was that you spotted, 356 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: Because when you describe logging trucks as these specialized heavy 357 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: duty vehicles that you know, to some extent people need 358 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: them to be kind of simple, easy to fix and maintain, 359 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily scream like opportunity for electrification. So so 360 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: what's the thought process there? Okay, Well, we've been a 361 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: big fan of kind of electric vehicles and we reserved 362 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: a test less semi a long time ago. Because my 363 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: thought process was if you're coming downhill like here, you 364 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: go up the mountain empty and you come downloaded electric 365 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: vehicle average enitor breaking, So you're recharging your batteries when 366 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: you're going down in order to power the truck to 367 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: go back up the mountain empty. You're basically using that 368 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: stored potential energy of the logs at the top of 369 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: the mountain to fuel the vehicle to go back up 370 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: the mountain. So that was where we first started, and 371 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: then we started looking into it and the battery wasn't enough. 372 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: The Tesla semi has a one megawatt battery logging truck. 373 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: When you do the math on it uses about two 374 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: point five megawatts of power. So the largest battery in 375 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: any electric semi you would need two and a half 376 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: times that weight. And that truck already weighs five thousand pounds. 377 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: Doubling over doubling that weight is going to put you 378 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: over legal axle weight. You wouldn't be able to haul 379 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: any freight. So then talk to us about how you 380 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: solve the problem. You've started, Uh, it's still very early days. 381 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: You've been retrofitting old trucks like electrifying them. Talk to 382 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: us about like how you solve the problem or what 383 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: specifically that you do to the old trucks. We basically 384 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: put in a diesel generator. Is had the idea. In 385 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: addition to logging, we did a lot of hybrid power 386 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: systems where we would take solar batteries, bring them up 387 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: to a mine or a remote community that was running 388 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: off diesel and we would optimize their grid. That's part 389 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: of the other side of our trucking business, and we 390 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: realized that a truck was a lot of the same 391 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 1: of this community. So this one project we did where 392 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 1: the AHA moment really came into it is that small 393 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: place up near the Yukon border First Nations Reserve running 394 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: off diesel. They were running a nine kilowatt generator because 395 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: they had a huge peak load demand. Everyone would get 396 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: home from work, turn on all their appliances at the 397 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: same time five o'clock, big peak load demand for an 398 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: hour or so on that grid. They needed a nine 399 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: generator to meet that load demand. However, the average load 400 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: was only like twenty kilowatts. That's a watts. So what 401 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: we did is we put a large battery bank in there. 402 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: That battery took up the peak low demand. We offset 403 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: that with a lot of solar production for daytime, and 404 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: then we downsized the generator from ninety to thirty five kilowatts. 405 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: I think we build them a hundred and forty thousand 406 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: dollars to do this whole project, and their fuel savings 407 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: was eighty five thousand dollars in their first year just 408 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: from using the same amount of power but optimizing that 409 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: power to work more efficiently. So I was driving back home. 410 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: I was actually in that nineteen sixty nine truck and 411 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: I was starting out at the satellites, and then the 412 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: Aha moment occurred to me. A truck is a lot 413 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: like these grids. You have a huge peak load demand. 414 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: Takes a ton of power to get that truck up 415 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: to wait. That's why you run a fifteen liter diesel 416 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: five fifty horse power. To start that truck moving from 417 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: the line, or to pull that weight up a hill. 418 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: You need a ton of power. Once you're rolling down 419 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: the road, you back rate out of that throttle. You're 420 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: at throttle and you're just cruising along. So you have 421 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: this super inefficient system where you have a massive diesel 422 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: motor that's not needed because you only need that large 423 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: diesel ten percent of the time. But you're running that 424 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: full size diesel of the time. So in addition, we're like, okay, 425 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: this makes sense of the regend breaking logging. If we 426 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: already have the batteries in there, we can make this 427 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: entire thing really efficient get the range we needed. We'll 428 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: put in a much smaller We'll basically cut the size 429 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: of the diesel motor in half. That'll recharge the batteries, 430 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: and those batteries will give you the power you need 431 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: to roll down the road and meet your peak load demand. 432 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: M hm. So this kind of leads into something else 433 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about, which is you know, 434 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: I realize it's dangerous to generalize here, but how do 435 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: truckers in general feel about electric vehicles and the prospect 436 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 1: of electric trucks. Is it so long as it cuts 437 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: down on fuel costs, it's seen as a good thing. 438 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: Or is there a sort of knee jerk resistance to 439 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: maybe doing things in a different way. Oh, there's a 440 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 1: huge knee jerk resistance, And I don't think it's too 441 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: doing things in a certain way. A lot of people 442 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: I've met, they're they're open to new ideas, but truckers 443 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: aren't dumb. They know how much power their truck puts 444 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: out in the day, they can fill it up at 445 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: the end of the day, and they see what their 446 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: power loads are. And when you tell them that, hey, 447 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: this truck at full load ideal circumstances can do four 448 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: hundred to five hundred miles, they quickly figure out that 449 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: I do six hundred mile days. And then they think, 450 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: where am I going to charge this? Where am I 451 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: going to plug this vehicle in? This isn't gonna work 452 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: for me. That's one side of the argument, and then 453 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: the other side. It's like the John Deer tractor thing. 454 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: They see these electric vehicles and they're like, there is 455 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: not a chance I'm going to be able to work 456 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: on this thing, Like every single thing is completely locked out. 457 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: As an owner operator or a company owner, how are 458 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: my mechanics going to service it? Like Tesla when you 459 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: hear stories of them buying a car, how long it 460 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: takes to get it serviced? Well, how long are these 461 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: trucks gonna take? Is where's that technician right now? If 462 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: I go into a truck dealership, these yards don't have 463 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: people trained up to service the high voltage systems. Their 464 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: normal diesel mechanics we need to go through an entire 465 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: training process on an entire nearly new mechanics set of industries. 466 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: So even if I can't service it myself, I can't 467 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: even take it to a shop anytime reasonably soon to 468 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: get it serviced. And downtime is one of the biggest 469 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: most expensive things when your truck. A truck on average 470 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: makes about two thousand, five hundred to three thousand dollars 471 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: a day. Three thousand dollars a day to a truck 472 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: if you're down for a week, man, does that add 473 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: up quick? Yeah, so you touched on this just now. 474 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: But also does the structure of the trucking industry where 475 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: you have lots of these independent owner operators, is that 476 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: It sounds like that is also an impediment to electric 477 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: vehicle adoption. Can you talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, 478 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: they want to be able to work on it, they 479 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: want to be able to service it, fix it, especially 480 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: like places like logging, where you work your truck on 481 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: day to Friday. You go out on Saturday and you 482 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: wrench on your truck and fix what you broke during 483 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: the week in order to get it back to work 484 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: on Monday. If they can't service it and they can't 485 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: fix it. In a lot of the industry is owner operator. 486 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: I forget the exact statistic, but it's like of truck 487 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: drivers are single truck owner operators, one man small businesses. 488 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: That's almost of the industry. What is Edison Motors doing 489 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: in the design of your truck? So the retrofitting to 490 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: assuage the concerns of someone who's up on the hill, 491 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: up on a mountain and worried that they you know, 492 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: and the concerns about can you really repair these electrified vehicles? Okay, 493 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: So we had a real simple way. We took our 494 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: experience working on when we got up to like a 495 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: four truck company. We had all trucks from the nineteen 496 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 1: sixties to the nineteen eighties, and we learned about the 497 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: common core components of these trucks that they put back then, 498 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: and it goes back to that U. S. Military. We 499 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: got a touch on it on a brief synopsis of 500 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: how it worked back then. Basically, in the sixties, the U. S. 501 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: Military and NATO was worried about the Soviet Union and 502 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: they learned from in World War Two. What they did 503 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: is when they war broke out, they bomb the hell 504 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: out of the German factories, and they realized that if 505 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: the Soviets do that and they start nuking our manufacturing hubs, 506 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: bombing the manufacturing hubs, trucking is so vital for national 507 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: defense national security that we need to be able to 508 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: pick parts not manufactured, may be able to pull parts 509 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: from one truck and put them into another, or people 510 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: are going to start to death. They won't be able 511 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: to maintain their military operations. So what they did is 512 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: they mandated that if you wanted a contract with the 513 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: US government as a manufacturer, you had to use a 514 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: common course set of parts. That's the reason why you 515 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: see these trucks from the nineteen sixties. I can take 516 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: the spedometer out of my nineteen sixty two ken Worth 517 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: and I can put it into my nineteen five Western Star. 518 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: It is the exact same spedometer, the treadle, valve, the Bendix, 519 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: the Type thirty break pots, all of them. The only 520 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: thing you were buying from a manufacturer that was different 521 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: was the body. The internal workings of the truck. We're 522 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: all common because of that national defense industry, so you 523 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: can service these trucks and these parts really stayed in 524 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: like the turn signal from my nineteen sixty two Kenworth 525 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: is the same turn signal that a twenty twelve Western 526 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: Star has. Isn't that kind of cool? That's awesome? So 527 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: when did we start moving away from that model is 528 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: my next question. They dropped their requirements in them sometime 529 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: around the mid eighties, around the fall of the Soviet 530 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: Union wall coming down in Germany. They weren't as worried. 531 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: They started laxing it, and then you see in the 532 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: nineties late nineties that manufacturers really start moving away as 533 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: we get more computerized, more specific like now this is 534 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: strictly a turn signal for this year and modeler truck, 535 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: and they realized they could make a lot of money 536 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: off of the part sales. It goes back to that 537 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: theory and economics is that you have a locked in customer, 538 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: so you could save money by selling a cheaper truck 539 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: and then making your money on the parts. Is that 540 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: somebody buys a three hundred thousand dollar truck, they're now 541 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: locked into maintaining that truck. You're not going to throw 542 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: out a three thousand dollar truck because of a turn 543 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: signal goes out. You're you're gonna buy that four or 544 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: five turn signal, So you went away from having a 545 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: turn signal. Right now, that old one in sixty two 546 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: is about forty dollars, A new turn signal about four 547 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars at ten times increase in the 548 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: amount of parts because it's specifically molded to the truck 549 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: and only that one component will work. This is so interesting. 550 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: I hadn't considered like sort of supply chain resilience and 551 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: in turn change ability as a security concern, just more 552 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: of like a convenience thing. I hadn't thought about either. 553 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's like some like PhD term paper to 554 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: be written or probably has been written about like the 555 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: end of the Cold war, neo liberalism market, you know, 556 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: diversity and market parts and sort of like a lack 557 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: of supply chain resilience as government purchasing ceases to be 558 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: a centralize hitting all the buzzwords, all the buzzwords, but 559 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: it really does feel like there's like a fairly profound 560 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:39,239 Speaker 1: economic story here. So think about it this way, they 561 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: have a look at it is. When we hit COVID 562 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: and the supply chains went down, the trucking industry was 563 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: massively shortened by parts parts supplies. Now that was just 564 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: a supply due to COVID and the natural way the 565 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: pandemic happened. If there was an actual military event where 566 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: say a incident broke up, but between China and the US, 567 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: our entire trucking industry would collapse overnight. Without those common 568 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: core parts and those older trucks, you can't maintain those 569 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: computer sensors. The truck go down. And that's a major issue, 570 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: is that how do you feed the population? The grocery 571 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: stores only have two three days worth of food on 572 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: the shelf. The trucks go down. What do you actually 573 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: do to these cities? So yeah, oblique thought to say 574 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: the least, So talk to us like, Okay, you're competing 575 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: with Elon Musk. Yeah, Like what is the plan here? 576 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: So I and I know your company is young and 577 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: you've started off doing retrofitting. But and that's sounds it's 578 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: very intriguing, but that's a long way. You know, there's 579 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: a seems like there's a big gap between retro electrifying 580 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: a truck from the nine sixties versus actually competing against 581 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: the biggest or one of the biggest vehicle manufacturers in 582 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: the world, and eventually creating your own trucks. Like, what 583 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: is your vision here? Why do you think you have 584 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: an opportunity? Okay, yes, so we've got an opportunity is 585 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: we got that market segment. So with those common core parts, 586 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: that's essentially all we used. We went, what are those 587 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: common core parts that are still on the shelf, cheap, 588 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: easy to install, That's what we built our trucks off of. 589 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: So that allowed us we didn't have to make any 590 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: specific parts. You know how fast that speeds up your 591 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: ability to get to production when you don't have to 592 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: make any parts. It also simplifies our supply chain logistics 593 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: is that we partnered with several parts stores. They can 594 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: get that they all have those parts and shelves. We 595 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: partnered with these parts stores and we're like, okay, what 596 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: are the parts that you always have on your shelf? 597 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: What are this thing that a trucker is going to 598 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,719 Speaker 1: go in there and get perfect? Now, we don't need 599 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: a warehouse for these parts. So we stepped up our 600 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: production that way. That's how we're now in just a year, 601 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: went from prototype to production. And when it comes to competing, yeah, 602 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: we're not going to compete on the freight liner cascade. Yah, 603 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of trucks per year. It's just you 604 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: need a million dollars, a billion dollar facility, two billion 605 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: dollar facility. But what a lot of Sorry? Is my 606 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: dog barking in the background, But it's okay, we're a 607 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: dog friendly show. What kind of dog is it? Border Collie? Look, 608 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: I have a hurting dog as well. I have a corky. 609 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. When I go on 610 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: the phone, she's outside. She's just looking in my office window, 611 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: crying at me. Sorry, but yeah, it's to get us 612 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: back on track there. We can't compete with a hundred 613 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: thousand trucks per year. And that's a lot of where 614 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,800 Speaker 1: these manufacturers focus on. Like they're going after the there's 615 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand of these dry v and trucks sold 616 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: every year in the US and Canada. We're targeting the 617 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: heavy vocational market, which is still about five of the 618 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: truck markets. But what a lot of people don't realize 619 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: is that when you're into that heavy vocation, I'll say 620 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: ken worth S five model, they're not built on an 621 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: assembly line. Every single one of those trucks is built 622 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: by hand. There's a small kind of assembly line, but 623 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: they are so custom it's not like building a car 624 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,879 Speaker 1: where every Chevy Malibu is basically the same same wheel base, 625 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: tires going the same spot. When you get into these 626 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: heavy vocational trucks and you get into places that have 627 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: bodybuilders they're putting on tow truck body cement trucks, everything 628 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: is so customized to what your wheelbase is, where your 629 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: axles go, does it have twin steering, does it have 630 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: three drive axles, does it have one drive axle? Where 631 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: does the fuel tank go? How much room do I 632 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: need here? It's you can't build that on an assembly 633 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: line because every single truck is so custom and it's 634 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: builed down to the even the engine size. Do you 635 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: want a seven leader engine? Do you want a sixteen 636 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: Leader engine? What transmission do you want? Is it going 637 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 1: to be an automatic? An eighteen speed to five speed? 638 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: Is it going to have auxiliary transmissions? Like, there's so 639 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: many different options that every one of these is basically 640 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 1: built by hand. That's why the price tag also jumps 641 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: way up. You're looking at a hundred and fifty two 642 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 1: d dollars for a highway truck. You're looking great now 643 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: at three hundred to half a million for one of 644 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 1: these heavy vocational trucks because it is still hand built. 645 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 1: So two things I hadn't actually I wasn't actually familiar 646 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: with the term vocational truck before. But you know, now 647 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: I understand what you're talking about in these sort of 648 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: like specialized trucks for things like logging or oil fields 649 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: and so forth. And I also did not realize that, 650 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: you know, that there is not an assembly line for 651 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: these type of vehicles which we see, we see dump 652 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: trucks things like that. I hadn't realized that they're much 653 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: more bespoke than the typical semi that you see in 654 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: the highway. Yeah, and the fancier you get with the truck, 655 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 1: the more bespoke it is. Like, think about a crane truck, 656 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: a large crane truck. Look how custom and bespoke that 657 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: has to be to accommodate those cranes, those outriggers, tow 658 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: truck bodies. It's kind of a cool thing that when 659 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: you get into the large things like the C five hundred, 660 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: that they're not assembly line produced, and that makes it 661 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,439 Speaker 1: a lot easier for somebody, a smaller company like us 662 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: to really come in there. Is that we can focus 663 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: on those high end not mass produced, mass produced trucks. 664 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: We're very cost competitive building these by hand. What's the 665 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: resale value on these trucks then, you know, if if 666 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: they're so customized and bespoke, but at the same time, 667 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: I guess they're using the common core parts. Well, they're 668 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: actually getting away from it more and more, even on 669 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: the bespoke one, which is like even on the logging trucks, 670 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: it's getting more and more away from it. Is manufacturers 671 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: don't focus on these trucks. They're not a huge part 672 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 1: of their volume. You know, you're selling a hundred thousand 673 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: highway trucks a year. There's only five thousand logging trucks 674 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: in all of BC with normally you keep them for 675 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: ten years, which means that each manufacturer might sell fifty 676 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: of these trucks per year. They're not going to tool 677 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: up an entire assembly line for logging trucks for fifty 678 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: trucks a year. They don't care about it. So now 679 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,959 Speaker 1: you start they're starting to get well, now you're gonna 680 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: get a highway chassis and we're just gonna send the 681 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: highway cab, the highway hood into the place that makes 682 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: the frame rails and they'll do all the extra stuff, 683 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: so it's getting less bespoke, which is also causing more 684 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: reliability issue problems is that it's essentially a highway truck 685 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: cab put into an off highway situation. Can we go 686 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: back and talk a little bit more. I wanna I 687 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: still want to wrap my head around why electric. And 688 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: I'm also curious about like the supporting infrastructure for vocational trucks, 689 00:38:54,200 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: particularly logging trucks for electric vehicles, and you know, I'm 690 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: do you know there's there is not much of an 691 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: electric vehicle infrastructure still just for regular cars on the highway, 692 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: although that's getting built out rapidly, but there's still a 693 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: lot of work to do. What does what is the 694 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: sort of like charging infrastructure look like when you think 695 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: about your markets, Well, we run that diesel generator, so 696 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: we don't need charging infrastructure, And that whole charging infrastructure 697 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: being built up is a bit of a misnomer. The 698 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: charging stations are there, but if you look about fifteen 699 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: years ago, we had about four arra wats or four 700 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 1: thousand terra wats of power in the US. It was 701 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: four thousand one. Now we have four thousand one and ten. 702 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: We've only increased the capacity of the amount of electricity 703 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: on the grid in the last ten years by ten 704 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: like it's it's so insignificant that the amount of electric 705 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,399 Speaker 1: we have on the grid has not increased at all 706 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: in ten years. If you compare that to China, ten 707 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: years ago, China had about two thousand on the grid. 708 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: They're now at seven thousand, five hundred terra wats of 709 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: power on the grid. They've done a three and a 710 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:19,280 Speaker 1: half times increase, almost four times increase, and North America 711 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,839 Speaker 1: has stayed flat lined in the same amount of time. 712 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: So they say that yeah, we're putting in the charging 713 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: stations and you see more charging stations, but we're don't 714 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: have the extra energy and electricity to support those charging stations. 715 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: And where that comes into real effect is that cars 716 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: are okay, they increase the gride load where they're at 717 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: a little bit. The price of electricity does go up, 718 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: but the amount of power that a car uses is 719 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: nothing compared to the amount of semi truck uses. So 720 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: if we were to make all the logging trucks in 721 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,800 Speaker 1: British Columbia, Canada all five thousand electric at two and 722 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,399 Speaker 1: a half mega wants of power per day for five 723 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: thousand trucks gives you about twelve thou in five hundred 724 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: megawatts twelve gigawatts of power. Right now, our government has 725 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: been building a new dam, the site see Dam. It's 726 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: been into construction for fifteen years. They've spent twenty one 727 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: billion dollars on it and it has a one point 728 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 1: one gigawatt capacity, which means you would need to build 729 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: about eight to twelve more of these dams in order 730 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: to just supply the electricity required four logging trucks in 731 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: a small province in Canada, a niche industry and a 732 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: small thing needs at least ten more hydroelectric dams in 733 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: the twenty billion dollar range. That kind of shows on 734 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: where our infrastructure is at. No, it's it's not happening 735 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: anytime soon unless we have levels of infrastructure investments similar 736 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: to what China does. It's it's just there's there's not 737 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: going to be a smooth, easy transition. It's why I'm 738 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: still in favor of these diesel electric hybrids, a much smaller, 739 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: much more efficiently ran diesel that's running at its peak 740 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: ideal rpm that then just recharge of the batteries, and 741 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: right now, what we found in our prototypes is that 742 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: you get about two hours of driving out of the 743 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: truck and you run the generator for about half an 744 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 1: hour to recharge the batteries half hour to forty minutes, 745 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,240 Speaker 1: so it burns in that half hour about thirty liters 746 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: of diesel to drive the truck about two hundred kilometers 747 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,359 Speaker 1: two hours of driving for thirty liters of diesel. If 748 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,760 Speaker 1: you consider that same amount of fuel burn, you're looking 749 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: at a hundred liters of diesel to a hundred and 750 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,839 Speaker 1: twenty liters of diesel. So if we're trying to reduce emissions, 751 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 1: reduce fuel consumption by going diesel electric, you can still 752 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 1: have that seventy reduction in fuel mileage burnt much more 753 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: efficiently as you go electric. And then as the grid improves, 754 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: if we do invest in our electrical infrastructure like China does, 755 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: with that charge and capacity and that electric capacity on 756 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 1: the grid, over time, as the batteries get better, you 757 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: can put more batteries in there, and you can make 758 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 1: your generator smaller instead of a nine leader, six leader, 759 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 1: maybe a three leader, and then you can get rid 760 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: of it all together. And that's the way I believe 761 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: that we need to transition into this zero emissions electric 762 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: economy over the next twenty thirty years is by making 763 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: that hybrid electric drive train more efficient. An evolution instead 764 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: of a revolution, I guess Chase. There was one other 765 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to ask you about, which is how 766 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: have you been fundraising so far? And what's that been like? 767 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 1: So we did. Our first fundraising was off this crowdfunding 768 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: we uh we started off. I announced this business on 769 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: TikTok and within four days we raised about half a 770 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: million dollars and okay cool. That allowed us to get 771 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: the first retro fit quote type built. Then we built that, 772 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: we showed it off, We showed that we people we 773 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,360 Speaker 1: could build it. Then we had another crowdfunding and we 774 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: had a goal of one and a half million to 775 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: start the production of the first production trucks, and we 776 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,440 Speaker 1: raised that one and a half million in about four days. 777 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: And this is one of the nice things that we 778 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: were trying to stay away from venture capital, because I 779 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,239 Speaker 1: made a point on that first round of investment to 780 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,839 Speaker 1: call everybody that don't invested over a thousand dollars into 781 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: the company. I wanted to make sure that they were 782 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: okay with the investment. I mean literally, you invested in 783 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 1: a tech startup off of TikTok, Are you sure about this? Like? 784 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,879 Speaker 1: And then what I found out though in that oh god, 785 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,760 Speaker 1: it took three weeks to do all those phone calls. 786 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: But what I found out is that of all their 787 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: people were owner operators, small fleet owners or truck drivers. 788 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: Our investors, especially like Annex, stayed true even going into 789 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 1: the next thing. Our investors weren't invest thing in us 790 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: because they wanted a huge return. I can't wait to 791 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 1: see that return I'm investing. I mean, yeah, some of 792 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: them are hoping that, yeah, we're successful, we take the 793 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: company public, they can see a return on that initial investment. 794 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: But what they were mainly invested in is that they 795 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,880 Speaker 1: wanted to buy our trucks. They believed in the trucks 796 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,839 Speaker 1: we were building, they believed in how we were doing it. 797 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: So all our investors themselves, our truck drivers and company owners, 798 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,879 Speaker 1: that their return on investment isn't the money they're making 799 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,279 Speaker 1: off of it. Their return on investment is being able 800 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 1: to buy a good truck that does the job for 801 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: them without the planned obsolescence. With the efficiency of the 802 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: diesel electric system, So it's kind of put us in 803 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 1: this really unique thing is that we don't have venture 804 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: capital behind us asking for a big return on their investment. 805 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: We have these small owner operators, these medium sized companies 806 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,320 Speaker 1: that says our return on the investment is just getting 807 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 1: the truck. So I think that's kind of unique in 808 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: the tech space. Chase Barbera, This is such a fascinating conversation. 809 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,480 Speaker 1: I learned a lot in this episode, but I think 810 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: that's a good place to leave it. It sounds good. 811 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad I could help. There's a lot of 812 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: information to cover, yeah, super quick, everything about logging work, 813 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: vocational trucking, the the interchangeability of the parts of the 814 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: connection there to the military, the fact that these are like, uh, 815 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: sort of more bespoken, limited run so it doesn't really 816 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,919 Speaker 1: make sense to stand up an assembly line for most 817 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: of these things. None of the sort of uh, the 818 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,879 Speaker 1: energy systems of like charging on the way down, all 819 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: things I hadn't really thought about before, but fascinating, very fascinating. 820 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 1: Really appreciate you coming on, alts Oh, thanks for having 821 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 1: me on. I had a lot of fun talking about 822 00:46:49,120 --> 00:47:11,840 Speaker 1: this interesting great Tracy. I found that to be really fascinating. 823 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: Like I said, this was like totally new stuff. The 824 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,439 Speaker 1: part about interchangeable parts of I think was like sort 825 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: of very eye opening, Like obviously I should have rephrased 826 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 1: what I said earlier. Obviously, supply chain resilience is a 827 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: security concern, but I had not considered interchangeability of trucking 828 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:36,720 Speaker 1: parts or manufacturing parts more generally as part of that considerations. 829 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 1: And the role of the U. S. Army in doing 830 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,359 Speaker 1: that was absolutely fascinating to hear. I will say, I 831 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 1: have a feeling the way some of our listeners feel 832 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 1: about our market structure episodes might be the way I 833 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,040 Speaker 1: feel about some of the conversation over you know, like 834 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,800 Speaker 1: engine size and structure and power needed for logging trucks. 835 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: But I think I got most of it. I I 836 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,719 Speaker 1: will admit, even after all of these episodes that we've 837 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,080 Speaker 1: done on energy and electricity, like I don't have an 838 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:09,080 Speaker 1: intuitive sense of like kilowatt hours or you know, some 839 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,520 Speaker 1: of thes or some of these things, like I haven't 840 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:16,440 Speaker 1: totally internalized them. But like this like basic idea and 841 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,720 Speaker 1: you know it's come up in multiple times in multiple conversations, 842 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,799 Speaker 1: which is that when we're talking about electricity, there is 843 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,960 Speaker 1: always this tension that doesn't really exist, you know, in 844 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,759 Speaker 1: sort of other forms of like peak versus average, and 845 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,920 Speaker 1: so you need to have the capacity to deliver at peak, 846 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,360 Speaker 1: but oftentimes there's like a waste in terms of because 847 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,279 Speaker 1: at the average time you don't need that. And so 848 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,759 Speaker 1: it's interesting this idea that maybe the sort of the 849 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:47,359 Speaker 1: diesel hybrid, the diesel hybrid electric solution is one way 850 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 1: to address that. And at first, like I didn't really 851 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,439 Speaker 1: understand like this idea of like how are you gonna 852 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 1: have like a truck and company and it's sort of 853 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 1: like crowdfunded, like do you need like hundreds of millions 854 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: and billions of dollars? But if they're bespoke or if 855 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,120 Speaker 1: it's if they're certain owner operators as well, where the 856 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,680 Speaker 1: expectation is for bespoke and it's sort of these interchangeable parts, 857 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,480 Speaker 1: then it makes a little bit more sense to me. Yeah, 858 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,920 Speaker 1: the peak versus average use thing is really important, I think. 859 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,280 Speaker 1: And also I hadn't, you know, listening to Chase talk 860 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: about the weight of actually moving logs, like I hadn't 861 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 1: really considered it. But that tree that fell down, we 862 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: have to, um, my husband and I we have to 863 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 1: lift it up before we can chop it into pieces 864 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,160 Speaker 1: because it's flat on the ground. And trying to lift 865 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,799 Speaker 1: that thing, you start to get a sense of what 866 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: it must be like to cart around a whole load 867 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:46,080 Speaker 1: of logs. They're just incredibly heavy. Just that him hearing 868 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,560 Speaker 1: him talk about like going downhill turn and then having 869 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 1: to like use stress as a plow to sort of 870 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,600 Speaker 1: like build up resistance and slow down, like having to 871 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: wear with all. And I remember the So I think 872 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: this is something that I'm Gord talked about too, which 873 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,359 Speaker 1: is that if you want to make more, make some 874 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,600 Speaker 1: better money and trucking, you have to be you have 875 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,359 Speaker 1: to specialize in some way. And you can see how 876 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 1: specialized knowing how is like knowing how to do that, 877 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,840 Speaker 1: or like having like half the wheelbase be over the edge, 878 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:20,719 Speaker 1: like if I guess if you're going to have like 879 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: a higher a higher salary and trucking than these are 880 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,400 Speaker 1: some of the choices you have to make. Absolutely. The 881 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,839 Speaker 1: other thing I was thinking about was just this comes 882 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,800 Speaker 1: up on all thoughts all the time, but the idea 883 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,719 Speaker 1: of in a very cyclical industry, how do you sort 884 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,319 Speaker 1: of encourage people to build up capacity that you know, 885 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,719 Speaker 1: at some point it is probably going to get furloughed, right, 886 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,400 Speaker 1: And Chase was talking about how when the lumber industry 887 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,600 Speaker 1: experiences a downturn, a lot of logging trucks just end 888 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,440 Speaker 1: up on the sidelines. But at the same time, you 889 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 1: don't actually have that many logging trucks when the industry 890 00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,320 Speaker 1: starts to heat up again. Yeah, all right, shall we 891 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,480 Speaker 1: leave it there. Let's leave it there. Okay. This has 892 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,120 Speaker 1: been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy Allowait. 893 00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,759 Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at Tracy Alloway and 894 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,600 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Isn't All. You can follow me on Twitter 895 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,400 Speaker 1: at the Stalwart. Follow our guest Chase Barber. He's on TikTok. 896 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 1: I don't even think he's on Twitter. He's at Chase 897 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 1: Barber on TikTok. If he had lots of videos about 898 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 1: all this stuff super interesting. Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez 899 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,480 Speaker 1: at Carmen Armand and Dashel Bennett at dashbot. And follow 900 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,440 Speaker 1: all of the Bloomberg podcasts under the handle at podcasts 901 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,719 Speaker 1: and for more odd Lots content, go to Bloomberg dot 902 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,200 Speaker 1: com slash odd Lots or Tracy and I blog, We 903 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,400 Speaker 1: push transcripts. We have a weekly newsletter that comes out 904 00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,480 Speaker 1: every Friday. Go there, subscribe to it and check it out, 905 00:51:41,560 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 1: and thanks for listening to do it. E.