WEBVTT - INTERVIEW: Jarrett Adams On Being Wrongfully Convicted, 'Redeeming Justice,' Mental Well-Being, Prison Reform 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:02.279 Hold up every day. 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:05.000 Up Breakfast Club. 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:06.440 You don't finish for y'all done? 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.120 Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show, The Breakfast Club. Charlamagna, God, 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:12.959 just hilarious, DJ Envy, justin, DJ n Bey on here today, 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:15.520 but ll Coolbay Law and Lerossa is and we're talking 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:16.880 to a very special brother man. 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:18.560 His name is Jared Adams. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:20.880 Okay, he's got a book out called Redeeming Justice, but 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.240 he is a civil rights attorney and justice reform advocate 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:25.480 with an amazing story. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:26.680 Good morning, my brother. 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:28.600 Good morning, good morning. Thank you both for having me 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:28.960 on here. 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:30.240 Thank you for being here. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.479 Absolutely you know you were You were wrongfully convicted and 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.800 spent ten years in prison for a crime you didn't commit. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.199 Yeah, and you got seventeen I. 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:40.800 Believe right, seventeen years old. 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.560 Seventeen but you went on to become an attorney yourself. 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.839 Yeah, not the first to do it, but seventeen years old, 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:53.280 wrongfully convicted, my conviction being over reversed, reversed after almost 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.120 ten years with the help of the Wisconsin Innocence Project. 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.440 And then it was what I saw inside the prison 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.160 that really at me on the journey that I'm on 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.559 right now. So when I get to this maximum security prison, 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.080 you know, I'm one of the youngest you know, inmates 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.520 who's walking around this prison. By the time I'm on 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:14.040 my way out, you know, of this prison, I'm looking 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.520 at mainly eighty ninety percent of the prison, it's seventeen 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:22.760 eighteen year old men of color. So literally the prison 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.440 boom that we talk about right now, that was when 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:27.600 I was doing my time, and it was just it 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:29.600 was a sight to see. So when I left for 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.600 out of those doors, I told myself, not only was 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.640 I not gonna go back, but I'm gonna try to 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.680 do something to keep people from going there and pull 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.399 out as many brothers and sisters. Now increasingly that I'm 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:40.080 doing as I can. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.319 No, I was thinking, man, when you walk into a 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.840 courtroom now as a lawyer, what part of that teenage 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.160 version of you is still present in your mind? 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.320 The part of it well is too. It's too you know. 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.200 I would say, it's two spirits. When I go in there. 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.160 Number One, I thank God that I'm able to walk 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.920 in there now know a champion of justice, you know, 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.680 being able to pull people out. But then also when 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.240 I go in there, there's a bit of you know, 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.280 y'all try to try to murk me. You tried to 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:10.760 take me out, you know what I mean. So I'm 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.280 walking through swinging arms like George Jefferson and this boy, 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.079 you know what I mean, like like legitly. So there's 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.239 a there's a there's a moment of being proud. There's 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.440 definitely being humble. But it's a reminder that man, look, 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.320 this is all I fight. You understand what I'm saying. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.440 There there are more families affected now by our system, 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:30.920 and we got to find a way to link arms 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:32.079 and create a human chain. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.040 How do you identify like what clients you choose to 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:36.480 take on. 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:41.440 Well, it's an interesting question because for a long time, Lauren, 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.520 I was a sucker for all my son and. 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.160 You know my mom yeh see, anybody behind bars is tough. 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.440 It is. But then also like my going through my journey, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:53.240 I went through it with my mama, my mom, a 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.960 single black mother. I go through it with her and 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.600 we became tighter. And so once I got my law degree, 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.760 and it's to help answer the question to you know 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:02.280 how you gotta wait in the mail for the law 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.160 degree to actually get to the house. So when you 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:05.880 get to the house. My mama tell me I come 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.400 over there, and I thought, I want her to keep it. 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.200 And so she started crying and I say, well, we 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.600 ain't crying no more, man were doing good. She said, no, no, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.440 I'm not crying because I'm sad. I'm crying because I 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.160 know you just hang onna go try to make money. 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.919 You're gonna realize that there are other black mails with 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.440 single parents and they gonna need your help, and you're 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.440 gonna help them. Right. So, for a long time I 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.280 was a sucker for that story. And then I get 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.960 down deep in these cases and realize that it wasn't 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.160 exactly what it was. But it never disturbed me from 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.600 from like perfecting the process of the intake unit that 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.440 we have right now. Right I have an organization called 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.640 Life After Justice where we review these cases and we 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.280 try to select these cases on the cases that can 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.520 do a couple of different things. Right. We always want 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.680 to see people get out, but also if we can 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.520 get out and make a change legislatively or or some 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.080 rule that would prevent those are the cases that we 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:58.600 highlight and we want to put at the top of 0:03:58.640 --> 0:03:58.920 the list. 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.000 I saw you working on d Bence Brother's case. Yes, right, 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.280 so I know that there's no decision at this point. 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.760 Where it is one, okay, they granted the decision in 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.080 the Vince case that she saw mat if you know it, 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:17.359 don't know. Two white brothers from Wisconsin were wrongfully convicted 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.080 and spent twenty seven years in prison for the rape 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.440 and the murder and the kidnapping of a bar you 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:29.440 know bartender. Right. They ended up doing DNA testing exhuming 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.719 the body of the person who actually did it and 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.560 was a serial rapist, and they cleared these men. But 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:38.240 when they came home, they came home past the age 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.640 of retirement. And literally there's a statute in Wisconsin that 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.480 no matter how many years you've spent in prison, the 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.440 maximum you will get is twenty five thousand dollars. Right, 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.159 so you have to petition the legislators and make an 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:52.839 argument and say, look, this is why they deserve more money. 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.880 They did not make a decision up until like a 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.120 month ago, about three weeks ago, and they agreed to 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.200 pay these men and a mis million dollars plus the 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.760 twenty five thousand, and it's something that they desperately needed. 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.080 Yeah, that's that's like, that's amazing. But when you get 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:09.840 involved in these cases like this, right, even though you 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:11.360 know that there's a wrong because of the way the 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:12.240 system is set up. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:13.240 Yeah, how do. 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.480 You kind of save yourself from like if there is 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.719 disappointment at the end, because you know, yeah, it's fifty. 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.080 It's continued therapy. Like I still go to therapy right 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.560 now to this day, you know, because I have to 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.400 balance my emotions no matter what the tentacles of when 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.640 you come in contact with this system that we have 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.159 in the United States, the tentacles of that contact will 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.320 always reach you through life. And the only way you 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.800 can maintain that balance is with constant therapy. And so 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:40.479 I encourage therapy. I do it myself because there are 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:44.760 there are we take it on the chin a lot, Lauren, 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.320 And so we have to find a way to continue 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.880 to get up off the mat. And we who are 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:51.880 off the mat need to find a way to keep 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.040 extending our palm and pulling people up with us. 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.000 And that was a historic amount that they were awarding Wisconsant. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.200 Yeah, yeah, it was, it was. It was. It was 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:04.240 an amount where it's been met before, but like only twice, okay, right, 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.479 So don't they don't necessarily give it out, and right 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.359 now there's a bill on the floor right now to 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.760 make it, you know, a law that you will get 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.320 fifty thousand dollars a year not having to go through 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.200 what they went through and hold on and wait and hope. 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:17.680 Yeah. 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:19.159 I agree with you on therapy. 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.600 You know, I'm a big proponent of therapy myself, man, 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:23.880 And I always say, you know, heal people, Healed people 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.360 will help heal people. 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:25.600 No doubt. 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:26.760 Hurt people will continue to hurt. 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.880 Hurt people absolutely. And my journey from listen, my journey 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.200 through mental health wasn't easy. Man. I thought I was 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.440 going to a damn fish fry. My mom and Aunties 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:37.279 was like, man, baby, look we need you to like 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:38.680 you're going to see the lady. Yeah, we need you 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.880 let it out, you know. And I think that in 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:45.039 our community, we are we are we rejected because we 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.200 think it's a sign of weakness, because you're like, oh, man, 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:48.680 they's crazy he going to see this and going to 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:52.160 see that. But for me, I was on autopilot when 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.800 I got out because all of my guys, man, it 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.000 wasn't turning up no more. They had kids, they had careers, 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.279 So I thought I could work twenty four hours a 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.560 day to catch up for almost a decade that was 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.440 taken and it wasn't mentally healthy for me. So going 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:11.120 through that, I'm understanding now that the real how I 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.160 look at this when it comes to my mental health 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.760 is these are moments of decompression and sometimes, man, you 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:19.680 have to go and decompress so that way you can 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.760 have the right state of mind to respond to all 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:24.840 the stresses that the world has to offer each and 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:25.280 every day. 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:27.320 I gotta get you on, you know, you know, I 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:28.680 do the mental Wealth Explorer, I do. 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:28.920 I do. 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:30.560 Shaka was telling me about that. He was like, man, 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:32.040 make sure you talk about that so you. 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.960 Can get on with that problem that we're going next year. 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.520 We're gonna do I want to do three or four 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.480 cities next year. So okay, I definitely need you there. 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.360 But you got a memoir Redeeming Justice, right, and the 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.520 subtitle is from Defendant to Defender? Yes, what was the 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.960 hardest chapter to write? Emotionally? And what did you learn 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.160 about yourself when you was putting your story on paper? 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.400 So it took me three years to write the book. 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:55.320 And part of the reason why it took me those 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.280 three years is because I wanted to read all of 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.720 the books of people with stories of wrong for conviction 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.200 because I wanted it to be honestly, I wanted it 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.280 to be and I wanted to be a salute to 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:08.760 my mom and my aunts. Man, they didn't have to 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.440 hold me down like that, but they did. So when 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:12.840 I write it, and when you look at the book, 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.040 you think it's a wrong for Conviction book, But if 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.480 you look at the first opening, it's a dedication to 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.800 my aunts who sugar, Honey and pizzas looking from Chicago dough. 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.000 You know what I'm saying. That's the big things, right, 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.600 And so I sent the shout out to them, because man, 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.600 they did stuff like keep me alive when I wanted 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.640 to die, and that boy, I would get a letter 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.920 with a verse every day from one of them, because 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.480 they told me, baby, look, we're gonna acknowledge that they've 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.400 incarcerated Joe body, but we will never let them imprison 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.120 your mind. And so I wrote this story from a 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.160 perspective of not just what the person goes through while 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.640 they're in prison, what does the family go through Because 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.439 my mama went from litis. My mother was a big 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.080 hat wearing peppermint passing Front Road Church. But when I 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.160 went through this, she got tired of answering the question 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.160 in Charlemagne, what happened to Jared? Where he at? You 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.360 know what I mean? It became hard for her, and 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.480 so I wanted to send a shout out to her 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.760 and then also continue to pay this about what I'm 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:09.760 doing in life right now. 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.240 When you talk about like your mom and your aunt 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.440 right and you said that, they was like, Yo, you 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:19.240 gotta go see the lady when you're helping, because I mean, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.520 you get people the justice that they deserve, right, but 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:24.360 a lot of times they don't identify that they have 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.640 issues that they need to deal with. So now you're 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.120 that person in their life when you're doing that. Like 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.679 how easy or how hard is it to tell somebody, hey, 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.040 you need to go get some help, Like we're going 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:36.400 to figure out the job and to stay, but you 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:38.680 need to go get some help because you're trying to 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:39.360 live your life. 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.839 It's a difficult conversation. But I can use a story 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.200 that I just had. So I got a client in Chicago, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.040 guy by the name of Shaquille Williams. He was wrongfully 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.200 arrested for a murder that they knew he didn't commit. 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.920 So we are going through the suit and one of 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.559 the toughest things about a civil suit is a deposition 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.120 because you get you get Pepper with questions, and so 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.440 he's being asked these questions that are emotionally triggering to 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.760 him where you know, he lost his mom while he 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.080 was locked up. He now has a wife, and I 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.800 have to explain to him and encourage him that you 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.640 have to keep going to therapy because there are situations 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.760 where when someone gets out of a place, like a 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:20.520 system like we have, you have to learn how to 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.520 not treat your wife like your selling and that's a 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:25.640 difficult thing to do, and you should never want to 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:27.400 do it alone. So what I try to do is 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.600 live my life and say look what I've done, what 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.720 I've done to make it more easier for guys to 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.080 be receptive. These are some hard dudes who think that 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.920 you know, they can't show a sign of weakness. So 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:38.440 if I'm telling them that I have went through and 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.600 did this time and I don't walked the same hard 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.560 tears you have, but I still revert back to therapy 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.000 because it has helped me tie my shoes in a 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:48.120 race that is life. 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.520 Ooh ooh, I've heard you say the criminal justice system 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.200 is rigged, yeah, and that justice is for sale. So 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.680 when you look at the current system, what are the 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.640 top two or three pressure points that most clearly show 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.480 you how like money and race still determine these outcomes. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:04.920 Look at what we got going on right now, man, Like, 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.080 just look at what we what we got we have. 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:11.240 We have a system that it depends on who you 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.319 know and what you have right, and it will determine 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.119 your result. We are seeing right now our justice department, 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.680 you know, being used in such a way that is scary, 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.000 but also being used in a way that we must 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.400 ask ourselves, like why they weren't doing this for us, 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.600 you know what I mean? Like while we wasn't getting 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.240 this right. So I think that the low hanging fruit 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:37.720 is this. We must find a way to step in 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.480 where there are clear gaps in our system, and there 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.040 are wealth gaps that determine a whole lot of the 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.200 sentences and stuff like that. We need to get as 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:51.719 loud as we can for Lakeisha as we do for Bryant. 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.599 You get what I'm saying. And I think that I 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.040 really do believe that our way of fixing fixing the 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:01.920 system itself. And Angela Rye and a lot of other 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.160 of my colleagues say the same thing. We have to 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.960 focus in the individual states, right, That's what we have 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.120 to focus at. But once we start to work together 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.280 in these individual states, I think that we must then 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.720 be able to link arms and start to petition the 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:17.800 change that can make it up to the Supreme Court 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.360 to make that governmental change that will affect the United States. 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.959 And it's all in its entirety. So in short, what 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.439 we need to do is the people who are closest 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.320 to the fire usually know how to put it out, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.959 but that the ferses from the water holes. We need 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.000 to find a way to feed the waterholes to the 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.520 people who are on the ground, the activists, the people 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.640 who are going to the courtrooms, the people who can 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.320 tell you, look, don't vote for this judge, vote for 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.960 that judge, because this judge will make the change. However, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.080 we can go back and make sure that our vote counts. 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.080 We have to be educated in order to do it, 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.000 but that is what we have to do in order 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.000 to start to tinker away at this mighty, mighty system. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:58.040 I wanted to ask you about this. 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.640 That's why I got up out because the track you're 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.000 on is I want to stay on this track. 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:03.320 What did you think, man? 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.480 Because this really really disappointed me when I saw our 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.720 good brother, my son, and that's my daughter the front 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.720 page of the New York Post labeled as a crime boss. 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.040 Because Doron Madani is essentially doing what you're saying people 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:16.920 should do. He's going to get somebody who's been through 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.880 the system, who's reformed, put them in place on the 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.679 Public Safety Committee. I don't think that's a better representative 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:25.480 to have than somebody like a my song. And for 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.800 him to be demonized like this, how did that make 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:28.160 you feel? 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.520 I mean, look at it. I felt attack. I felt 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.400 attacked with that brother and I know him, like you 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.040 know what I'm saying, and me and me and we 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.000 just talked about a case. I have a new Jersey 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:38.920 a few, you know, weeks ago. The case is Rore 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.680 Hee and Brian. You could look at it. The kid 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.480 was shot in the back of the neck. We got 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.000 an assessive, assessive, uh, you know, force you going. But 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.240 I was just rotating with that brother. So when I 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.000 looked at that and I saw it, it came up 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.839 on my timeline and I immediately felt attacked. You know 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:54.280 what I'm saying as if it was me, And I 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.640 think we all should have that type of response. And 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.680 I'll just say this for anyone who's questioning, you know 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.920 this move right when we just came through the pandemic, right, 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.719 and we got through the pandemic through vaccines, right. So 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:11.800 the vaccines are actually what the virus that has turned 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.040 into an antibody, right, and we injected in ourselves as 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:19.120 a defense mechanism. If this brother, which I know he 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:23.560 will do with his experience being in this position, he 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.240 is a voice that is the closest thing to the 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.640 problems that we have to be able to provide us 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.880 a solution. Why would we not want that? If we 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.160 have a president right now who is the president, and 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.760 he's been convicted of something, why can't we have a 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.800 brother like this and more sisters like this in positions 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.240 where they can say, look, I know what it's like 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.800 right to be at home, not have childcare, and have 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.640 to not be able to work, So that way they 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.360 can provise the solution you want us to all come 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.040 off dedicating all these dumbass arguments that you hear about 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.440 with black people on snap. They don't stay on that. Well, 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.480 why don't you put the people who have had the 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.480 experience and why they had to be on snap position 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.120 to be able to provide solutions so that we could 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:04.760 snap snap the fuck out of here, if that's what 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:05.720 you're all want to do, right? 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:07.440 Is it just bothers me? 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.640 Man? When I see your brother, you know, who went 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:11.320 to prison, what he got convicted with. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:12.040 Ninety nine. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:18.240 Years old, forty nine You've you've been a model citizen 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.600 since you've been home, and as soon as something like 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:22.720 this happens, you get labeled a crime boss. 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:23.120 A crime ball? 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:24.040 Is it not liable? 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.360 I mean, listen, what I would do is this I'm 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.200 and I'm offering this for this brother if you want, 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.600 I would strongly send them a letter, you know, and 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.200 a letter would be a cease and desist, and would also, 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.760 you know, give the real facts, cause that brother ain't 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.400 never been no crime boss. Never understand. But look, let 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:40.840 me tell you how scary this is and what they 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:42.560 did to him. And this is what this reminded me of. 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.520 So we we had the rico that was made famous 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.240 by Judie Allen in New York taking down and tackling 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.320 the mod problem. Right shortly after his success in doing that, 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.320 who do you think became the target of the rico? 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.080 Exactly inside a neighbor hoods that you and I know 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.880 where guys were CouchSurfing, but all of a sudden when 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:06.680 they got to federal court, they were named to be 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.520 the federal you know, a guy who did everything and 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.440 they're the king pin and all of that to be 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.840 able to slam, slander us and continue to keep us 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.080 in the historical depiction that has hindered black men forever. 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.880 That's exactly what I thought about when I saw her. 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.600 Absolutely, it's not switching gears. I guess it's kind of 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.800 in the same vein. There was a case that I 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.960 know that you were involved in as well, the Waverley case. Yes, yes, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.360 I thought we're talking about like people not being able 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:37.920 to live down what people title you at. So talk 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.920 a bit about that case and how those brothers were 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:45.320 found not guilty but still sitting and then you had 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.280 to fight, like explain a little bit, because when I 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.480 run it, I'm like, this makes no sense. Do you 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.320 still have to stick with that the rest of your life? 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:53.760 And it's a good outcome to that too, So I'm 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:55.400 glad you brought that up, and let me also send 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.840 a shout out to Ta Mika Mallory and also mindstn'. 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.640 That's where I first became in contact with them because 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.720 they saw my push on that story and they gave 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.640 me a platform to tell that story at a larger 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.600 place and help because we had to get them out 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.720 on a presidential commutation. So here's what happened in this case. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:19.040 Two brothers down in Waverley, Virginia, and Waverley, Virginia has 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.480 a dirty history. They are one of the last known 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.840 towns to do a public open lynching, right, So that's 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.199 the atmosphere in which these guys are charged with the 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:33.560 murder of a police officer. And you know, they ain't 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.880 got no money, ain't a lot of platforms and stuff down, 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.120 ain't a lot of exposure. This is nineteen ninety eight. 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.200 So they are talked into taking plea deals that should 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.320 already signal to you all this some bullshit, right, So 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:53.040 they plead to taran accessory after the fact and Terrence 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.840