1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,279 Speaker 1: Hold up every day. 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 2: Up Breakfast Club. 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: You don't finish for y'all done? 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 3: Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show, The Breakfast Club. Charlamagna, God, 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 3: just hilarious, DJ Envy, justin, DJ n Bey on here today, 6 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 3: but ll Coolbay Law and Lerossa is and we're talking 7 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 3: to a very special brother man. 8 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: His name is Jared Adams. 9 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 3: Okay, he's got a book out called Redeeming Justice, but 10 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 3: he is a civil rights attorney and justice reform advocate 11 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 3: with an amazing story. 12 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: Good morning, my brother. 13 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: Good morning, good morning. Thank you both for having me 14 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: on here. 15 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 4: Thank you for being here. 16 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 3: Absolutely you know you were You were wrongfully convicted and 17 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 3: spent ten years in prison for a crime you didn't commit. 18 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you got seventeen I. 19 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: Believe right, seventeen years old. 20 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: Seventeen but you went on to become an attorney yourself. 21 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, not the first to do it, but seventeen years old, 22 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: wrongfully convicted, my conviction being over reversed, reversed after almost 23 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: ten years with the help of the Wisconsin Innocence Project. 24 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: And then it was what I saw inside the prison 25 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: that really at me on the journey that I'm on 26 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 2: right now. So when I get to this maximum security prison, 27 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: you know, I'm one of the youngest you know, inmates 28 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: who's walking around this prison. By the time I'm on 29 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: my way out, you know, of this prison, I'm looking 30 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: at mainly eighty ninety percent of the prison, it's seventeen 31 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 2: eighteen year old men of color. So literally the prison 32 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: boom that we talk about right now, that was when 33 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: I was doing my time, and it was just it 34 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: was a sight to see. So when I left for 35 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: out of those doors, I told myself, not only was 36 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: I not gonna go back, but I'm gonna try to 37 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 2: do something to keep people from going there and pull 38 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 2: out as many brothers and sisters. Now increasingly that I'm 39 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: doing as I can. 40 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 3: No, I was thinking, man, when you walk into a 41 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 3: courtroom now as a lawyer, what part of that teenage 42 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 3: version of you is still present in your mind? 43 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: The part of it well is too. It's too you know. 44 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: I would say, it's two spirits. When I go in there. 45 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: Number One, I thank God that I'm able to walk 46 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: in there now know a champion of justice, you know, 47 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: being able to pull people out. But then also when 48 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 2: I go in there, there's a bit of you know, 49 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: y'all try to try to murk me. You tried to 50 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: take me out, you know what I mean. So I'm 51 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: walking through swinging arms like George Jefferson and this boy, 52 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like like legitly. So there's 53 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 2: a there's a there's a moment of being proud. There's 54 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: definitely being humble. But it's a reminder that man, look, 55 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: this is all I fight. You understand what I'm saying. 56 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: There there are more families affected now by our system, 57 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 2: and we got to find a way to link arms 58 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 2: and create a human chain. 59 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 4: How do you identify like what clients you choose to 60 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 4: take on. 61 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: Well, it's an interesting question because for a long time, Lauren, 62 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: I was a sucker for all my son and. 63 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 4: You know my mom yeh see, anybody behind bars is tough. 64 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: It is. But then also like my going through my journey, 65 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: I went through it with my mama, my mom, a 66 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 2: single black mother. I go through it with her and 67 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: we became tighter. And so once I got my law degree, 68 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: and it's to help answer the question to you know 69 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 2: how you gotta wait in the mail for the law 70 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: degree to actually get to the house. So when you 71 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: get to the house. My mama tell me I come 72 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: over there, and I thought, I want her to keep it. 73 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: And so she started crying and I say, well, we 74 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: ain't crying no more, man were doing good. She said, no, no, 75 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 2: I'm not crying because I'm sad. I'm crying because I 76 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: know you just hang onna go try to make money. 77 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: You're gonna realize that there are other black mails with 78 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: single parents and they gonna need your help, and you're 79 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: gonna help them. Right. So, for a long time I 80 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: was a sucker for that story. And then I get 81 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 2: down deep in these cases and realize that it wasn't 82 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: exactly what it was. But it never disturbed me from 83 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: from like perfecting the process of the intake unit that 84 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: we have right now. Right I have an organization called 85 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: Life After Justice where we review these cases and we 86 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: try to select these cases on the cases that can 87 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: do a couple of different things. Right. We always want 88 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: to see people get out, but also if we can 89 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: get out and make a change legislatively or or some 90 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: rule that would prevent those are the cases that we 91 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 2: highlight and we want to put at the top of 92 00:03:58,640 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: the list. 93 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 4: I saw you working on d Bence Brother's case. Yes, right, 94 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 4: so I know that there's no decision at this point. 95 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: Where it is one, okay, they granted the decision in 96 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: the Vince case that she saw mat if you know it, 97 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 2: don't know. Two white brothers from Wisconsin were wrongfully convicted 98 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: and spent twenty seven years in prison for the rape 99 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: and the murder and the kidnapping of a bar you 100 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: know bartender. Right. They ended up doing DNA testing exhuming 101 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 2: the body of the person who actually did it and 102 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: was a serial rapist, and they cleared these men. But 103 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: when they came home, they came home past the age 104 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: of retirement. And literally there's a statute in Wisconsin that 105 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: no matter how many years you've spent in prison, the 106 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: maximum you will get is twenty five thousand dollars. Right, 107 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 2: so you have to petition the legislators and make an 108 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 2: argument and say, look, this is why they deserve more money. 109 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: They did not make a decision up until like a 110 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: month ago, about three weeks ago, and they agreed to 111 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: pay these men and a mis million dollars plus the 112 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: twenty five thousand, and it's something that they desperately needed. 113 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's like, that's amazing. But when you get 114 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 4: involved in these cases like this, right, even though you 115 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 4: know that there's a wrong because of the way the 116 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 4: system is set up. 117 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, how do. 118 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 4: You kind of save yourself from like if there is 119 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 4: disappointment at the end, because you know, yeah, it's fifty. 120 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: It's continued therapy. Like I still go to therapy right 121 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: now to this day, you know, because I have to 122 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: balance my emotions no matter what the tentacles of when 123 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: you come in contact with this system that we have 124 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 2: in the United States, the tentacles of that contact will 125 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: always reach you through life. And the only way you 126 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: can maintain that balance is with constant therapy. And so 127 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 2: I encourage therapy. I do it myself because there are 128 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: there are we take it on the chin a lot, Lauren, 129 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: And so we have to find a way to continue 130 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: to get up off the mat. And we who are 131 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 2: off the mat need to find a way to keep 132 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: extending our palm and pulling people up with us. 133 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 4: And that was a historic amount that they were awarding Wisconsant. 134 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was. It was. It was 135 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: an amount where it's been met before, but like only twice, okay, right, 136 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 2: So don't they don't necessarily give it out, and right 137 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 2: now there's a bill on the floor right now to 138 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: make it, you know, a law that you will get 139 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars a year not having to go through 140 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: what they went through and hold on and wait and hope. 141 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 142 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: I agree with you on therapy. 143 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 3: You know, I'm a big proponent of therapy myself, man, 144 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: And I always say, you know, heal people, Healed people 145 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 3: will help heal people. 146 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 2: No doubt. 147 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: Hurt people will continue to hurt. 148 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: Hurt people absolutely. And my journey from listen, my journey 149 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: through mental health wasn't easy. Man. I thought I was 150 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: going to a damn fish fry. My mom and Aunties 151 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: was like, man, baby, look we need you to like 152 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: you're going to see the lady. Yeah, we need you 153 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: let it out, you know. And I think that in 154 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 2: our community, we are we are we rejected because we 155 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: think it's a sign of weakness, because you're like, oh, man, 156 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 2: they's crazy he going to see this and going to 157 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 2: see that. But for me, I was on autopilot when 158 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: I got out because all of my guys, man, it 159 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: wasn't turning up no more. They had kids, they had careers, 160 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 2: So I thought I could work twenty four hours a 161 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: day to catch up for almost a decade that was 162 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 2: taken and it wasn't mentally healthy for me. So going 163 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: through that, I'm understanding now that the real how I 164 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: look at this when it comes to my mental health 165 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: is these are moments of decompression and sometimes, man, you 166 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: have to go and decompress so that way you can 167 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: have the right state of mind to respond to all 168 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: the stresses that the world has to offer each and 169 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: every day. 170 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: I gotta get you on, you know, you know, I 171 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 3: do the mental Wealth Explorer, I do. 172 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: I do. 173 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 2: Shaka was telling me about that. He was like, man, 174 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: make sure you talk about that so you. 175 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 3: Can get on with that problem that we're going next year. 176 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: We're gonna do I want to do three or four 177 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 3: cities next year. So okay, I definitely need you there. 178 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: But you got a memoir Redeeming Justice, right, and the 179 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 3: subtitle is from Defendant to Defender? Yes, what was the 180 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 3: hardest chapter to write? Emotionally? And what did you learn 181 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 3: about yourself when you was putting your story on paper? 182 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: So it took me three years to write the book. 183 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 2: And part of the reason why it took me those 184 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: three years is because I wanted to read all of 185 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: the books of people with stories of wrong for conviction 186 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: because I wanted it to be honestly, I wanted it 187 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: to be and I wanted to be a salute to 188 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: my mom and my aunts. Man, they didn't have to 189 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: hold me down like that, but they did. So when 190 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: I write it, and when you look at the book, 191 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: you think it's a wrong for Conviction book, But if 192 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: you look at the first opening, it's a dedication to 193 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: my aunts who sugar, Honey and pizzas looking from Chicago dough. 194 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. That's the big things, right, 195 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 2: And so I sent the shout out to them, because man, 196 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: they did stuff like keep me alive when I wanted 197 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: to die, and that boy, I would get a letter 198 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: with a verse every day from one of them, because 199 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: they told me, baby, look, we're gonna acknowledge that they've 200 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: incarcerated Joe body, but we will never let them imprison 201 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: your mind. And so I wrote this story from a 202 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: perspective of not just what the person goes through while 203 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: they're in prison, what does the family go through Because 204 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 2: my mama went from litis. My mother was a big 205 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 2: hat wearing peppermint passing Front Road Church. But when I 206 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 2: went through this, she got tired of answering the question 207 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: in Charlemagne, what happened to Jared? Where he at? You 208 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: know what I mean? It became hard for her, and 209 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: so I wanted to send a shout out to her 210 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: and then also continue to pay this about what I'm 211 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: doing in life right now. 212 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 4: When you talk about like your mom and your aunt 213 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 4: right and you said that, they was like, Yo, you 214 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 4: gotta go see the lady when you're helping, because I mean, 215 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 4: you get people the justice that they deserve, right, but 216 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 4: a lot of times they don't identify that they have 217 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 4: issues that they need to deal with. So now you're 218 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 4: that person in their life when you're doing that. Like 219 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 4: how easy or how hard is it to tell somebody, hey, 220 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 4: you need to go get some help, Like we're going 221 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 4: to figure out the job and to stay, but you 222 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 4: need to go get some help because you're trying to 223 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 4: live your life. 224 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 2: It's a difficult conversation. But I can use a story 225 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: that I just had. So I got a client in Chicago, 226 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: guy by the name of Shaquille Williams. He was wrongfully 227 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 2: arrested for a murder that they knew he didn't commit. 228 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: So we are going through the suit and one of 229 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 2: the toughest things about a civil suit is a deposition 230 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: because you get you get Pepper with questions, and so 231 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 2: he's being asked these questions that are emotionally triggering to 232 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: him where you know, he lost his mom while he 233 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 2: was locked up. He now has a wife, and I 234 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: have to explain to him and encourage him that you 235 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: have to keep going to therapy because there are situations 236 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: where when someone gets out of a place, like a 237 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: system like we have, you have to learn how to 238 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: not treat your wife like your selling and that's a 239 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: difficult thing to do, and you should never want to 240 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: do it alone. So what I try to do is 241 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: live my life and say look what I've done, what 242 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: I've done to make it more easier for guys to 243 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: be receptive. These are some hard dudes who think that 244 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: you know, they can't show a sign of weakness. So 245 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: if I'm telling them that I have went through and 246 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: did this time and I don't walked the same hard 247 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 2: tears you have, but I still revert back to therapy 248 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: because it has helped me tie my shoes in a 249 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: race that is life. 250 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 3: Ooh ooh, I've heard you say the criminal justice system 251 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 3: is rigged, yeah, and that justice is for sale. So 252 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 3: when you look at the current system, what are the 253 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: top two or three pressure points that most clearly show 254 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 3: you how like money and race still determine these outcomes. 255 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: Look at what we got going on right now, man, Like, 256 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 2: just look at what we what we got we have. 257 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: We have a system that it depends on who you 258 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 2: know and what you have right, and it will determine 259 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,119 Speaker 2: your result. We are seeing right now our justice department, 260 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 2: you know, being used in such a way that is scary, 261 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: but also being used in a way that we must 262 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: ask ourselves, like why they weren't doing this for us, 263 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like while we wasn't getting 264 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: this right. So I think that the low hanging fruit 265 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 2: is this. We must find a way to step in 266 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 2: where there are clear gaps in our system, and there 267 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: are wealth gaps that determine a whole lot of the 268 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 2: sentences and stuff like that. We need to get as 269 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 2: loud as we can for Lakeisha as we do for Bryant. 270 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 2: You get what I'm saying. And I think that I 271 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: really do believe that our way of fixing fixing the 272 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: system itself. And Angela Rye and a lot of other 273 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: of my colleagues say the same thing. We have to 274 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 2: focus in the individual states, right, That's what we have 275 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: to focus at. But once we start to work together 276 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: in these individual states, I think that we must then 277 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: be able to link arms and start to petition the 278 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 2: change that can make it up to the Supreme Court 279 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 2: to make that governmental change that will affect the United States. 280 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 2: And it's all in its entirety. So in short, what 281 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 2: we need to do is the people who are closest 282 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 2: to the fire usually know how to put it out, 283 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 2: but that the ferses from the water holes. We need 284 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: to find a way to feed the waterholes to the 285 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: people who are on the ground, the activists, the people 286 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 2: who are going to the courtrooms, the people who can 287 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 2: tell you, look, don't vote for this judge, vote for 288 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 2: that judge, because this judge will make the change. However, 289 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: we can go back and make sure that our vote counts. 290 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 2: We have to be educated in order to do it, 291 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: but that is what we have to do in order 292 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: to start to tinker away at this mighty, mighty system. 293 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about this. 294 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 3: That's why I got up out because the track you're 295 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 3: on is I want to stay on this track. 296 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: What did you think, man? 297 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 3: Because this really really disappointed me when I saw our 298 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 3: good brother, my son, and that's my daughter the front 299 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 3: page of the New York Post labeled as a crime boss. 300 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: Because Doron Madani is essentially doing what you're saying people 301 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 3: should do. He's going to get somebody who's been through 302 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 3: the system, who's reformed, put them in place on the 303 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 3: Public Safety Committee. I don't think that's a better representative 304 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 3: to have than somebody like a my song. And for 305 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 3: him to be demonized like this, how did that make 306 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 3: you feel? 307 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: I mean, look at it. I felt attack. I felt 308 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 2: attacked with that brother and I know him, like you 309 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, and me and me and we 310 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 2: just talked about a case. I have a new Jersey 311 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: a few, you know, weeks ago. The case is Rore 312 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 2: Hee and Brian. You could look at it. The kid 313 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: was shot in the back of the neck. We got 314 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: an assessive, assessive, uh, you know, force you going. But 315 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 2: I was just rotating with that brother. So when I 316 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: looked at that and I saw it, it came up 317 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 2: on my timeline and I immediately felt attacked. You know 318 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: what I'm saying as if it was me, And I 319 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: think we all should have that type of response. And 320 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 2: I'll just say this for anyone who's questioning, you know 321 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 2: this move right when we just came through the pandemic, right, 322 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 2: and we got through the pandemic through vaccines, right. So 323 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: the vaccines are actually what the virus that has turned 324 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: into an antibody, right, and we injected in ourselves as 325 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: a defense mechanism. If this brother, which I know he 326 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 2: will do with his experience being in this position, he 327 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 2: is a voice that is the closest thing to the 328 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: problems that we have to be able to provide us 329 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 2: a solution. Why would we not want that? If we 330 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: have a president right now who is the president, and 331 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 2: he's been convicted of something, why can't we have a 332 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: brother like this and more sisters like this in positions 333 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: where they can say, look, I know what it's like 334 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: right to be at home, not have childcare, and have 335 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: to not be able to work, So that way they 336 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: can provise the solution you want us to all come 337 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: off dedicating all these dumbass arguments that you hear about 338 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 2: with black people on snap. They don't stay on that. Well, 339 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 2: why don't you put the people who have had the 340 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 2: experience and why they had to be on snap position 341 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: to be able to provide solutions so that we could 342 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: snap snap the fuck out of here, if that's what 343 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: you're all want to do, right? 344 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: Is it just bothers me? 345 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 3: Man? When I see your brother, you know, who went 346 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: to prison, what he got convicted with. 347 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: Ninety nine. 348 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 3: Years old, forty nine You've you've been a model citizen 349 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 3: since you've been home, and as soon as something like 350 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 3: this happens, you get labeled a crime boss. 351 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 2: A crime ball? 352 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: Is it not liable? 353 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: I mean, listen, what I would do is this I'm 354 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: and I'm offering this for this brother if you want, 355 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: I would strongly send them a letter, you know, and 356 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 2: a letter would be a cease and desist, and would also, 357 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 2: you know, give the real facts, cause that brother ain't 358 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: never been no crime boss. Never understand. But look, let 359 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: me tell you how scary this is and what they 360 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 2: did to him. And this is what this reminded me of. 361 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: So we we had the rico that was made famous 362 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 2: by Judie Allen in New York taking down and tackling 363 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: the mod problem. Right shortly after his success in doing that, 364 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: who do you think became the target of the rico? 365 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 2: Exactly inside a neighbor hoods that you and I know 366 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 2: where guys were CouchSurfing, but all of a sudden when 367 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 2: they got to federal court, they were named to be 368 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 2: the federal you know, a guy who did everything and 369 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 2: they're the king pin and all of that to be 370 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 2: able to slam, slander us and continue to keep us 371 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: in the historical depiction that has hindered black men forever. 372 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: That's exactly what I thought about when I saw her. 373 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's not switching gears. I guess it's kind of 374 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 4: in the same vein. There was a case that I 375 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 4: know that you were involved in as well, the Waverley case. Yes, yes, 376 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 4: I thought we're talking about like people not being able 377 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 4: to live down what people title you at. So talk 378 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 4: a bit about that case and how those brothers were 379 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 4: found not guilty but still sitting and then you had 380 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 4: to fight, like explain a little bit, because when I 381 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 4: run it, I'm like, this makes no sense. Do you 382 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 4: still have to stick with that the rest of your life? 383 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: And it's a good outcome to that too, So I'm 384 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: glad you brought that up, and let me also send 385 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: a shout out to Ta Mika Mallory and also mindstn'. 386 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: That's where I first became in contact with them because 387 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 2: they saw my push on that story and they gave 388 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 2: me a platform to tell that story at a larger 389 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 2: place and help because we had to get them out 390 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 2: on a presidential commutation. So here's what happened in this case. 391 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: Two brothers down in Waverley, Virginia, and Waverley, Virginia has 392 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: a dirty history. They are one of the last known 393 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: towns to do a public open lynching, right, So that's 394 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 2: the atmosphere in which these guys are charged with the 395 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: murder of a police officer. And you know, they ain't 396 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 2: got no money, ain't a lot of platforms and stuff down, 397 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 2: ain't a lot of exposure. This is nineteen ninety eight. 398 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 2: So they are talked into taking plea deals that should 399 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 2: already signal to you all this some bullshit, right, So 400 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 2: they plead to taran accessory after the fact and Terrence 401 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: pled to a man slat of charge in this case 402 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 2: even though there was nothing to no evidence at all. 403 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 2: But they were theyasically told by their attorney. Look, man, 404 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 2: if you get the death penalty, which they were facing, 405 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 2: ain't no way out of that even if you did 406 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: you know, if you did not do it, you can 407 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 2: get the death penalty. People get locked up and go 408 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: to jail for stuff they didn't do all all the time. 409 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 2: So they took these plea deals. When they took the 410 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: plea deals, they thought they were just going to have 411 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 2: to do five years and the other one had, you know, 412 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 2: time released. The fans came around and indicted them as 413 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 2: king pins of being drug dealers, and they said the 414 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 2: murder was a result of them being king pins, right, 415 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: and they were able to retry them in federal court. 416 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 2: They go to federal court, they're found not guilty of 417 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: the murder of this police officer, but they're found guilty 418 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: of selling drugs, and they were sentenced to life in 419 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 2: prison as an enhancement based on their guilty please in 420 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 2: state court. So as a result, they're in federal prison 421 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 2: for twenty something plus years, not because they're found guilty 422 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 2: of killing the officer, but because they played guilty to 423 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: save their life and their life was still taken from them. 424 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: It is one of the most insane stories ever. We 425 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 2: went to the last hour of Biden's presidency and he 426 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 2: finally signed a commutation to commute their sentence. They came 427 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 2: home and they've discharged off of their their their federal papers, 428 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 2: and they're released. And we just did an event with 429 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: them and we're working on the documentary to tell their 430 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 2: story because we're trying to change the law. You should 431 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: not be able to be found not guilty but still 432 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 2: sentenced to life based on allegations in other matters. It's 433 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: just ridiculous. 434 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 3: How did y'all get the Biden administration to move because 435 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 3: they weren't. They weren't moving on nothing. 436 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 2: Man, Charla Mane, when I tell you the squeakiest we'll 437 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 2: get the oil. Man, I was squeaky in the motherfucker 438 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 2: like I just I wouldn't stop. Man. I went around 439 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 2: and thankfully I got the support of some Virginia politicians 440 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 2: and legislators. Man, we're talking about Tim Kaine and a 441 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 2: bunch of folks who it took me nine years to 442 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: get them out, So it wasn't like it was no 443 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: short things. So they knew who I was. And I 444 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 2: just think I think it was a matter of me 445 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 2: being constant, me being persistent in God opening them doors. 446 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 3: To be honest with you, absolutely, how do you determine 447 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: whether or not a potential client is actually innocent? 448 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 2: Sometimes you just got to go through it to find out, man. 449 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 2: And I ain't gonna lie to you. Look, I done been, 450 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 2: you know, thousands of dollars in hours and hours in 451 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 2: only for DNA results to come back, and it wasn't 452 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 2: telling me the truth. But let me say this, man, 453 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: that can't stop us from sending the elevator back down, 454 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 2: That can't keep us from extending our palms man, because 455 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 2: there are some innocent brothers and oversentssed sisters and brothers 456 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 2: who deserve our help. They need our help. And so 457 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 2: if I get one out of ten, I take that one. 458 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: I mean, that's how important it is to our culture, man, 459 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 2: that we make sure we don't have a bad experience 460 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 2: that makes us close to do it to everybody. 461 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 4: My question for you, when I at my last job, 462 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 4: I used to do these stories whenever we would hear 463 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 4: about like Kim Kardashian or like you know, just any 464 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 4: of the attorneys she was working with getting involved rough 465 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 4: celebrities in general would speak out about people needing to 466 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 4: be put back in front of a judge because something 467 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 4: was done wrong in the legal system. There would be 468 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 4: the other side, the families of these people who thought, Okay, 469 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 4: I finally have peace, the case is solved, now we 470 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 4: can rest, and then this comes back up and it 471 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 4: kind of opens up a doorback for that right. How 472 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 4: do you as an attorney deal with that because you 473 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 4: want justice for the people who are wrong the justice system, 474 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 4: but then it's opening up a whole new world of 475 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 4: like chaos for this family connected to the person who 476 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 4: yes was harmed. 477 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 2: Here's what we do in our practice and what we 478 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 2: do at Life After Justice. So after we do their 479 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 2: full investigation, we presented to the victim's family as well, 480 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 2: because we deserve it. They we think they deserve to 481 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 2: have full closure, not the closure that they have been 482 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 2: forced to get. So that case of Terrence and Faran, 483 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 2: I took the complete and total investigation to the family 484 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 2: of the officer and at one point his daughter was like, look, 485 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: I have my attorney read this and I'm going to 486 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 2: provide you with the letter that says I want complete 487 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 2: and total transparency. I want to know what happened to 488 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: my father. That letter went a long way and helping, 489 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 2: and so I think that that is a way that 490 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 2: you can do it. I think it's deserving, right, because 491 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 2: you're opening up wounds and someone tragically lost their life 492 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 2: and situations like that. I think we have to be 493 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 2: respectful in mindful of everyone's feelings. 494 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 3: I want to talk about you know, the prison library, right. 495 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 3: I read when you started reading case law in the 496 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 3: prison library. Yeah, and helping other guys with their cases. 497 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 3: We always hear about that, Yeah, But and you did 498 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 3: that before you ever set foot in the law school classroom. 499 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 3: How did that prison law school shape you differently than 500 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 3: the traditional legal education. 501 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 2: I think what it did for me is personally, it 502 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: helped me to better understand my clients and listen. Also, 503 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 2: I mean I think that as an attorney, I think 504 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 2: sometimes man, we can just be like, I know what 505 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 2: I'm doing and stuff like that. I think what it 506 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 2: did for me is it made me understand that just 507 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 2: as portant as important as it is when in the case, 508 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 2: and you also need to personalize yourself and learn from 509 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 2: your clients and stuff like that. And so I think 510 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 2: that I'm sitting across from guys who are you know, 511 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 2: rightfully convicted, wrongfully convicted and I'm helping them out. And 512 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: I think what it helped me do was master become 513 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: a master class of the client communications that is necessary 514 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: to be victorious in these tough cases. 515 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 4: You know what I think about, and this is a 516 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 4: lot of times I think about even people who are 517 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 4: locked up right that may actually have done what they 518 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 4: did and they need like some form of rehabilitation. Are 519 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 4: we ever going to figure out a system that like 520 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,719 Speaker 4: actually rehabilitates people but also balances punishment, because I do 521 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 4: think there is a form of punishment needed, but when 522 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 4: it's your family member, you don't feel like that. But realistically, 523 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 4: like it's like the conversation we have around like defund 524 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 4: the police and what is actually supposed to mean what 525 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 4: people think We're saying, Yeah, you need police, but you 526 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 4: need them to like be human. 527 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 2: Why can't we just advance, Like we've advanced in technology, man, 528 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 2: And we advanced in technology from learning, right, we learned 529 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: from our mistakes. We got better. Used to have to 530 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,239 Speaker 2: remember the phone with the core, man, My mama had 531 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: a fifty extension court. We used to walk around to 532 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: how we go to the basement at that phone. We've 533 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: advanced from that, so it's like, why can't we advance 534 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 2: in these things that affect our lives as much as 535 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 2: this criminal system does. And I'll tell you in my perspective. 536 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 2: So this is what I think is the problem. We 537 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 2: have an adversarial system. And I don't care if it's 538 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 2: a spitball contest or a pencil popping contest. You gonna 539 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: want to win. Right when you win this contest. I'll 540 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 2: give you an example of what I mean by that. 541 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 2: I did a study of broad in London because I 542 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 2: was trying to get through law school and the only 543 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 2: way you can get like a bunch of credits was 544 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 2: if you did this study of Broad. So I went 545 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 2: over there. I spent about four weeks in The assignment 546 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: was you need to go to their criminal system, see 547 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 2: what's there, and write a paper on what you think 548 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: will work in our system. So when I got there 549 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 2: and you sit up in the top, you know of 550 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 2: this thing called the Old Bailey or whatever it is, right, 551 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 2: and you look down at the barristers, who are both 552 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 2: men and women, and they're doing these arguments. And I 553 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: remember this lady man. She was kicking man. She was 554 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 2: kicking this dude butt up in there right with the 555 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 2: argument that she had, and it was it was involved 556 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 2: in the sense of the subject. It was involving actually 557 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: a rape case, right, And then I seen her come 558 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 2: back like three days later, and now she was actually 559 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 2: defending a guy who was accused of a rape with 560 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 2: the same passion and the same just vigorous, like this 561 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 2: is my client. What I walked away from with that 562 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 2: is you know what, That's how they're able to preserve 563 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 2: the sympathy and empathy that is missing out of our system. 564 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 2: We just want to win as defense attorneys. We just 565 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 2: want to win as prosecutors, and sometimes when that happens, 566 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 2: the thing that has lost is justice. I'm just going 567 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 2: to say. 568 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 4: It's been like that for like this whole thing and 569 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 4: like breaking this whole system. When people had that conversation, 570 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 4: I'm like, it's been like this for so many years, 571 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 4: Like it's so far beyond us. Like sometimes I wonder, 572 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 4: why do we believe that it's going to just be 573 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 4: able to change and like you'll be able to change 574 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 4: even people's spirits to not want to just win the case. 575 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 2: Man, We got to get people closer to what is 576 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 2: really happening, you know, and that's going to make people 577 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 2: want to change. I think that, you know, until it, 578 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 2: until Trump was actually prosecuted by the system, don't you 579 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 2: think he had a problem with the system? You know 580 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 2: what I mean? No, until he was prosecuted by it, 581 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 2: then he had a problem with the system. Right, So 582 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 2: I think that I. 583 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 3: Still don't think he has a problem with how it 584 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 3: does certain people, meaning black and brown people. 585 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true too, but. 586 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 4: He has because his privilege when he encountered the system 587 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 4: is a lot different and a lot of times you 588 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 4: got people who create do these like you know, certain 589 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 4: collar crimes and put in certain facilities. Yeah, so different 590 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 4: than what we know. Like when I have a family 591 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 4: member going to prison, it's a different experience. So even 592 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 4: their close experience doesn't change how they view things because 593 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 4: it's different for them. 594 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 2: It's my opinion, right, it is different for them. But 595 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: but I use something my grandfather used to use, which 596 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 2: is man. You know, look, sometimes people don't underst shit 597 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 2: to that shit on the bottom of their shoe, right, 598 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 2: And that's that's really one of them things where it's 599 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 2: like we need our leaders and I'm not gonna identify 600 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 2: and point out on names. We need our leaders man 601 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: to start to make the quick rapid change that we're 602 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 2: seeing right now with this current administration. Man, Like, legitly, 603 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 2: I don't. 604 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 3: I don't think they had a courage to do it now, 605 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 3: even if they get back in position with all the 606 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 3: tools at their disposal, I don't think they got the courage. 607 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 2: Well, I'll just say this, listen, don't do the job then, 608 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, if you don't have 609 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 2: the courage to do what is necessary, don't do the 610 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 2: job like we need y'all. Like, legitly, man, we need y'all. 611 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,239 Speaker 2: Especially as an attorney in court every day, Man, I'm 612 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 2: seeing every day how slight changes could change the system. Like, 613 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: for example, why do public defenders have the budget of 614 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: a school teacher but the caseload of an entire administration. 615 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: It ain't fair, you know what I mean? Like, so 616 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 2: why can't we come in and just change that system alone? 617 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 2: Ninety percent of the public relies on public defense, Like 618 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 2: public defenders are different organizations like that. So it's like, man, 619 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: if you want to change this system, why can't we 620 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 2: change the budget to that? If you look at the 621 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 2: pot chart and the Department of Justice, we spend the 622 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 2: majority of that on what they call policing right, that's 623 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 2: locking people up, that's building new prisons. We got a 624 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 2: smart you can't even see that dot on what they 625 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 2: spend on reintegration and mental health care. So it's like, 626 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,239 Speaker 2: why not just start there and you tell me if 627 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 2: it worked. I give you another example. We've seen the 628 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 2: war on drugs create mass incarceration. There was billions of 629 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 2: dollars that were spent on the war on drugs. Let 630 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 2: me see a war on childcare. Let me see a 631 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: war on the school systems in Hyrack where I'm from. 632 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: Let me see a war on putting them jobs back 633 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 2: that in those areas, replacing those liquor stores with those jobs. 634 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 2: And you talk to me in ten years and you 635 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 2: tell me if that ain't produced a better product. 636 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 3: Man, you said something earlier when you were talking about 637 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 3: like the prosecutors. Man, it made me think, like you 638 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 3: stent on both sides, right defended and attorney, what's one 639 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 3: thing you wish every prosecutor, judge and cop had to 640 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 3: experience or learn before they're allowed to hold that kind 641 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 3: of power over somebody's life. 642 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 2: Man, I really mishtaken experience a day in prison, in 643 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 2: a day with the family members at home. Who have 644 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: they loved ones in prison? Right? Because you're talking about 645 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: astronomical phone calls. Prisons ain't placed in the city. They 646 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 2: Appalachia somewhere, right. You know what I'm saying. You got 647 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: to drive a Clinton correctional You ever went to Clinton. 648 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 2: I got a couple of clients up there. Man, you 649 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 2: might as well block out your calendar for that day, 650 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 2: right and hope everything work out. So it's like that 651 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 2: that part of it, in my opinion, is again they 652 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: need to experience it, just to have that sympathy and empathy. Man. 653 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: Everything doesn't require a hammer, you understand what I'm saying. 654 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 2: And that's that just seems like what happens when you 655 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 2: get us in front of one of these systems. Man, 656 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: we all are like nails to them. 657 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 3: For people who listening, man, who will never see the 658 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 3: inside of a courtroom beyond jury duty, what's one specific 659 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 3: action they can take, you know, right now to actually 660 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 3: move the needle on wrongful convictions and criminal justice reform 661 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 3: in their own city? 662 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 2: Pay attention man, like legitly man, if you're gonna be 663 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 2: there and you're gonna show and also listen. In general, 664 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,959 Speaker 2: black folks show up the jury duty. Come on, y'all 665 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: like legitly, man, like we have to show up the 666 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 2: jury duty. Like you just don't know how many jury 667 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 2: pools in the Northern District of Illinois where I'm doing 668 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: a wrongful conviction case and I ain't got nothing but 669 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: one or two of us in there, and then we're 670 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 2: trying to get about that motherfucker like we need y'all. Man, 671 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 2: we listen, look, our turn up cannot outweigh our turnout 672 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 2: like legitly like that. So for me and my perspective, 673 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 2: I like to have a good time too, man, But man, 674 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 2: when it's time, when it's time to turn out, we 675 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 2: got to turn out. Please show up the jury duty, y'all. Y'all, y'all, 676 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,719 Speaker 2: you just don't know. Man. If we get a jury 677 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: pool that is diverse, right, we now cantrol a lot 678 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: of the outcomes. Man, show up, show up, if you 679 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 2: can be there, be there, right. I'll be like, man, Charlamagne, 680 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 2: I'll be trying to get people are eye contact when 681 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: they be on the jury pool, like please please don't no, 682 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 2: it's go stand up and say you got a baby 683 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 2: like that. Come on, But that's that's what we need 684 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 2: because we present the case, but the jury makes a decision. 685 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,479 Speaker 2: We need black and brown folk. And let me make 686 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 2: sure that I'm clarifying that not just black for black 687 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 2: and brown folk, because we ain't the minority if we 688 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 2: link up, you know what I'm saying. So that's what 689 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 2: we need. Show up the jury duty, that's it, and 690 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 2: even pay attention in that, take notes and stuff like that. 691 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 2: Be active in your participation because what your what your 692 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 2: vote counts for right there in that moment, it's critical 693 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 2: to the lives of a lot of my clients and 694 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 2: a lot of lawyer's clients. 695 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 3: What gives you hope that meaningful justice reform is actually possible? 696 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 4: Man? 697 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: The cases, Man, I just look at the cases and 698 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: I and I also am just a person who wants 699 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 2: to be hopeful. I have to be right going through 700 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 2: what I went through. Man, I'm a prayerful person. I'm 701 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,719 Speaker 2: a I'm a hopeful person. And I also get an 702 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 2: opportunity to look at the babies that we have that 703 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 2: are coming up right now. Man, and I'm I'm I'm afraid, y'all. 704 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: Ain't don't even lie, you know, when I'm looking to 705 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: talking to these mothers and fathers in these courtrooms. I 706 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: believe that it's desensitizing our babies to believe that the 707 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 2: criminal system is just a part of our lives. And 708 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: some kids never experience that only in the movie and 709 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 2: I and I. You know, I give you another example 710 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: of of of people ask me, man, what's what's the 711 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 2: toughest thing you've ever seen in prison? They expect me 712 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 2: to say a knife fight or something like that. Man, 713 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 2: I tell you the toughest thing that I ever seen 714 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 2: in this prison. So I'm playing ball on the first 715 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 2: couple of years that I get to to Green Bay Correctional. 716 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: Green Bay Correctional in Wisconsin was was is a. It's 717 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 2: a tough place, okay, And right now they are they 718 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 2: are stabbing each other up in there, and it's just 719 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 2: it doesn't make any sense what's going on with the violence. 720 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 2: So I'm passing time. I playing basketball, and you know, 721 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 2: everybody picking a squad, everybody got a nickname. And I'm hearing, 722 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 2: you know, these guys on the other team, and they're 723 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 2: like G Pops old man and G's son, right, I'm 724 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 2: just thinking that they all from the same block. You 725 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. I ain't no, I ain't no. 726 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: At all. It wasn't until I got in the visiting 727 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 2: room and I was visiting. My mama came up to 728 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 2: see me from Chicago, and I'm in the visiting room 729 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: and I didn't realize, Man, this was three generations. Man, 730 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 2: this was a grandfather, a father and his son. 731 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: God. 732 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 2: But what really messed me up was two women came 733 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 2: to see him with three kids, and it was a 734 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 2: little girl with him, and man, the little girl came 735 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 2: through the medalal detective and raised the armor to be 736 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 2: wanded because she was looking at her mama and grandmama 737 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 2: be wanded coming to the prison. And you don't wand 738 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 2: the kids anything like that? Man, like you, you know 739 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 2: you this is a baby. What's she doing at three 740 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 2: four years old? Knowing that she's supposed to stick her 741 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 2: arms up in the air. I said, man, look we 742 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 2: got addressed. We need to implement inside our schools of 743 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 2: psychology sections that address specifically people who encounter the system, 744 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 2: whether it be family members or whether it be people 745 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 2: who are there in order to make some real, real, 746 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,240 Speaker 2: real change. That is the thing that I will never forget, 747 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 2: And that happened almost twenty seven years ago. But I 748 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 2: never forget it. 749 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 4: You talk about the importance of pro bono work. 750 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 2: Oh, look, I know. 751 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,720 Speaker 4: That's a part of the reason why even with your situation, right. 752 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 2: Yes, an instance project got me out. It's important that 753 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 2: we donate to the right organizations that are doing the 754 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 2: work on the ground. And look, man, it's tough. You 755 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 2: understand what I'm saying. There's a lot of organizations, a 756 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 2: lot of people doing the same work, but we are system. 757 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 2: There are people. Once you get convicted, you on your own, 758 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, not people everybody. Once you 759 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,919 Speaker 2: get convicted and that first appeal is over with, you're 760 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 2: on your own, right, So there are people who will 761 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 2: never have an opportunity to present their case of innocence, 762 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 2: not because they're not innocent, but because there's no money 763 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 2: around to do it. So we have to donate to 764 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 2: organizations like my organization, Life After Justice, people who are 765 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 2: doing the work and taking on cases pro bono to 766 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 2: be able to really get them the help that they need. 767 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 2: We have to do this right because there are there 768 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 2: are no The cavalry ain't coming. 769 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 3: We the cavalry ourselves. That's sh listen man. Jared Adams 770 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 3: his book Redeeming Justice from Defending to defender my fight 771 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 3: for equity on both sides of a broken system is 772 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 3: available everywhere you buy books now, man, thank you man. 773 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: How can we continue to support your work? 774 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 2: I know Life After Justice, but also the website is 775 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 2: is Jared Adams all dot com. Life after Justice dot 776 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: org is the website and y'all can support by sharing 777 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 2: the story. Man, like honestly, Charla Magne. Listen, if we're 778 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 2: gonna have a donkey of today, let's do a King 779 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 2: of Queen of the day. You know what I'm saying. 780 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 2: Straight up, Man, I love y'all. Thank y'all. I appreciate you, brother, 781 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 2: I really do, man, So I really do. 782 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: It's Jared Adams is the breakfast Club. 783 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 3: Hold up every day a weak click your ass up 784 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 3: the breakfast Club. 785 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: You're finish what y'all done.