1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to Ruthie's Table for in collaboration with Me 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: and m Intelligence Style for busy women. Thinking about Gordon Brown, 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: I remember a great prime minister who fought for justice, 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: led with deep values of trust and truth and fairness, 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: embraced culture by supporting creatives and the arts, and much 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: much more. In recent years, he's focused his work tackling 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: the challenges of poverty through Multibank, a crucial and innovative 8 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: initiative he founded. Tonight, we're going to have a dinner 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: at our home, celebrating him all he has done and 10 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: all he is doing. But before we sit down, he 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: and I are going to talk together about food and memories, 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: food and family, food and activism. 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 2: It's a real privilege to be with you, and I'm 14 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: looking forward to this discussion. 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 3: You are the expert food. Now. 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: What it is about food is that it's a clue 17 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: to a memory. I think you're going to ask you 18 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: to read a recipe for asparagus for data and so 19 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: you can if you would like to read this. 20 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 3: I'm a big supporter of asparagus. Asparagus should we do 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 3: this together? 22 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: Okay, So this recipe is for an asparagus here we 23 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: go tata ingredients. 24 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 2: I'll start eight large free range eggs, and I love eggs. 25 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 2: The spray eight ounces of thin asparagus. 26 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: We have different ones. 27 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: I love asparagus and it's in seasons. We don't grow them, 28 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: but we buy them. 29 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: You ounces of freshly grated parmesan, and. 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: One small bunch of mint, finely chopped with two tablespoonfuls 31 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: of extra virgin. 32 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: We only have extra. Okay, we go to Italy. 33 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: Blanch the asparagus, Bring a pot of water to the boil, 34 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: Add the asparagus and blanche until just tender. Drain and 35 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: pat dry, and then in a large board lightly beat 36 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: the eggs. 37 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 3: I think I could do that that. 38 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: Add the parmesan and chop mint, reserving a small amount 39 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: of each for the topping. A season right, and I 40 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,839 Speaker 2: think I might have to get your advice to cook 41 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: the fritata. 42 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: Okay, we could do that together. Okay. Cook the frittata 43 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: in an eight inch often proved frying pan. Heat the 44 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: olive oil over medium heat, Add the egg mixture to. 45 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 2: The pan, and then I think I could cook the 46 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: eggs of a low heat, generally loosening them at the 47 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: sides with a spatula until they are almost completely set, 48 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: but the center is still slightly runny. 49 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: Okay, Then scatter the blanched to asparagus spears evenly over 50 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: the top of the frittata. Sprinkle with remaining parmesan and mint, 51 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: and then place. 52 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: The frying pan under the hot grill. And you do 53 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: so until the fritata is cooked through and the top 54 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: is lightly golden. 55 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: Nice slide the finished fritata onto a warm plate, cut 56 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: into wedges. 57 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: And so now if you made it, would we do 58 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: that together your expertise. You know, when you grow up, 59 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: because you've got food, you take it for granted, and 60 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: sometimes you forget. When I was born, my mother told 61 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 2: me later that I was I had to go back 62 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: into hospital because I couldn't take food and I was 63 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: not able to digest it. So I had spent weeks 64 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: in hospital when I was born, but I'd taken food 65 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: for granted, and then the food I got suddenly my 66 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: mother was in hospital and I was I think fifteen then, 67 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: and she was really very ill for more than a year, 68 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: and my father had to make the food. And the 69 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: only food he could make was omelet with eggs. But 70 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: because of the war years I don't know how it 71 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: had happened. He made omelet with eggs. 72 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 3: And flower flower flower flower, with. 73 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: The put in the flower in the beginning. 74 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: To make go further. Yeah, and this was obviously something 75 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: that had happened because of the rationing during the war, 76 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: and so were ald every day. The one thing that 77 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: relieved me off was the porridge that I hated that 78 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: my mother used to insist that I had, But for 79 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: a year I was sort of very aware about that, 80 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: you know, my mother had. I had just taken it 81 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: off for granted, and my father made the food. And 82 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: then then I go I go to university. So I 83 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: actually went to university when I was sixteen. I arrived 84 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 2: in Edinburgh at university and I had had this rugby injury. 85 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 2: I've been playing rugby and it was a sportsman. The 86 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 2: week I arrived at university, I was taken into hospital 87 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 2: for RETINALD detachments of my eye. Having played rugby and 88 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 2: had this injury, I've been concussed playing rugby and I 89 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: ended up, of course learning about hospital food, so it 90 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: would either been refectory for at university or hospital food. 91 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: I was actually blinded, so for a few weeks and 92 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: I had these operations almost every year for a few 93 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: years because of what had happened with this injury. And 94 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: I got to know hospital food, and so I started 95 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: to realize the benefits of good food. Yeah, I tell 96 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: you about this hospital, so's it's so fascinating. At eight 97 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: o'clock every evening, a trolley came around. 98 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 3: I was very young. 99 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 2: I was only sixteen, and then I was in at 100 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: seventeen one of these old Victorian wards. Almost every other 101 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 2: patient was cataract patients. It took about seven days to 102 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: cure a cataract these days instead of being out, So 103 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 2: it was all these old men, really because a men's ward, 104 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: and me the young person. But at eight o'clock every evening, 105 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 2: a trolley came around and they offered you drinks, alcoholic 106 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: alcoholic drinks. And I was sixteen, and you're going to 107 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: be offered guinness, you'd be offered wine, you'd be offered lager, 108 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: and you could take what you wanted. And this is 109 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 2: my introduction into alcohol. 110 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 3: I need. 111 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 4: The health service was free, but free beer, you know, 112 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 4: and so the food wasn't so good, but the drink 113 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 4: was kind of enticing. 114 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 3: So that was that's my early years. 115 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: When you couldn't see you. Did you listen to music? 116 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: Did you? 117 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 2: I did listen to There was a there was a 118 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: hospital radio station, and funny enough, and I did listen 119 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 2: to music. And this is, you know, the time of 120 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: the Beatles, this is you know, this is nineteen sixty seven, 121 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 2: nineteen six, sixty eight, ninety sixty nine. So you've got 122 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 2: all this brilliant, brilliant British music. And of course you're 123 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 2: lying blinded and you had to lie flat to let 124 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: the retina set in place, very uncomfortable. You had to 125 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: sense the food rather than see it. 126 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you deal with it? With time? Did 127 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 1: people come and talk to you? How did you have 128 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: the day? 129 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: Interestingly, it's all night digitalized. But there was a talking 130 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: book service. And there was a friend of mine who 131 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: was a history lecture and I was studying history and 132 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: he gave me these talking books. But they're very difficult 133 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: because there were sort of tapes, like the old tape recorders. 134 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: Thinking about the early days, when you're talking about your 135 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: father cooking for you, what was your house like, what 136 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: was do you remember the kitchen? 137 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? 138 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: I was the kitchen. Did they have money? Did they 139 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: have money to buy good ingredients. 140 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: No, not much money. 141 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: But my father was a minister of the church, so 142 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: if you were a minister, the house was provided so 143 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 2: and they were usually big houses, usually pretty cool. But 144 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: my mother insisted that we always had to eat porridge. 145 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: For breakfast, not certainly, just breakfast for breakfast. 146 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: My grandfather, my grandfather, because they were relatively poor, they 147 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: had porridge breakfast, lunch, and in the evening. Yeah, but 148 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: I somehow, I just it was too much for me. 149 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: And the minute I could stop eating, for I've never eating. 150 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: They have people over there, my father was minister. Did 151 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: they have people come for lunches or dinners? 152 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: Look weird people? They entertained, They did a bit, but 153 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: we had people begging because I mean, there was a 154 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: lot of poverty at that time. I got into trouble 155 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: with my parents because they'd gone out and I don't 156 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: know what age. I was twelve thirteen food and I 157 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 2: was in the house on my own, and this guy 158 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: comes to the door and he said he didn't have 159 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: any money, he didn't have any food, and I said, well, 160 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: come in, and I took him into the kitchen and 161 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: I said, just take what you want. My parents came back. 162 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: He was the town's best known burglar. 163 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 4: He was a housebreaker and he got some. 164 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 3: Food, but he disappeared pretty quickly. 165 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: What was the part of the poverty of food and 166 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: the poverty of the people. There were the unemployed, but 167 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: there's no industry. 168 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: Was there farms the time I grew up and was 169 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: a mining town that night in Scotland, and it was Linoleum. 170 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 2: It was a textile town, so Linoium, the town almost 171 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 2: had the world market in Linoleum, and that was when 172 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 2: that was the floor covering that was in vogue. And 173 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 2: then suddenly it was out of vogue and it was 174 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: fitted carpets, and so Linoium sort of died a bit 175 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: of a death. 176 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 3: But there was. 177 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: Thousands employed in the linoium industry and in mining, and 178 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: there was quite a lot of poverty as a result 179 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 2: of the unemployment that then happened as these industries fell. 180 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: And then we lived by the sea, and we had 181 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: sea walls because we were on the fourth which looking 182 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: out on the continent of Europe. But the sea walls 183 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 2: were not strong enough, so every January there was always flooding, 184 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: and so my father and I just remember going down 185 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: to meet the families and their houses were flooded, but 186 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: they weren't properly in sure, and so that was again 187 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 2: another cause of poverty. 188 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: There was no social what year was this. 189 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 3: The nineteen sixties, So there were social nineteen fifties, sixties. 190 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 2: I saw poverty then that I didn't think i'd see again, 191 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 2: and unfortunately in the last. 192 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 3: Ten years, in the last ten years, I've seen it 193 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 3: rise again. 194 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: So in the town I was brought up in and 195 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: the school I went to, I've been back there, you know, 196 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: the primary school which is you know, and there is 197 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: a lot of poverty in that area. This is why 198 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: food is so important and why food banks are becoming. 199 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: You know, in twenty ten when we left office, there 200 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: were thirty five. 201 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: Food banks, thirty five food lives in school in the 202 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: whole of. 203 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: Britain, thirty five only, and now there are two thousand, 204 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: six hundred. So you've now got food banks, you've got 205 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: hygiene banks, you've got closed banks, you've got baby banks. 206 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 2: But the first priority is that a properly fed and 207 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: you can see the difference in the nutritional levels of 208 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: kids when they when they get to school. 209 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,719 Speaker 3: But food is. 210 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: So essential and the lack of food, you know, and 211 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: as I say, you know, my mother did all the cooking. 212 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 2: You sort of took it for granted. 213 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: What did she do? Remember some things that she made? 214 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 3: I mean, we're very very traditional food. 215 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: What is Scottish traditional? 216 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: You know, roast beef steak pies because it's a sort 217 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 2: of popular dish amongst people. 218 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 3: I'm not a great lover of the sort of haggis 219 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 3: and all that sort of stuff. 220 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: You have never had. 221 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 3: Well, we come to Scotland, Scotland. 222 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: And did you buy it already prepared? 223 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 2: And there are restaurants that specialize in and that's kind 224 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: of Scottish but fishing communities. So there's a lot of 225 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: fishing communities in Scotland. And although the fishing is not 226 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: as strong in terms of its outward and it's catches. 227 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 3: As it used to be. 228 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 2: You know, Scottish people love fish. Fish and chips is 229 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 2: a huge thing in Scotland. The most famous fish and 230 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: chips restaurant that wins all the awards for being the 231 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 2: best British restaurant is in five very near where we 232 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: stay chewing outside for fish and chips. You know, it's. 233 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 3: Incredible because you are on the sea. 234 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: We get we have our fish, we get scallops and legastine. 235 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: Yes from Aberdeen, Yes, yes, but and they come down 236 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: on the train. I always have this image of two 237 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: Langstines sitting together chatting about their attorney to the river caf. 238 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to did you ever fish yourself? 239 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: We tried to fish when I was young. My mother 240 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: came from the north of Scotland and we used to 241 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: go and visit my uncle and an aunt and so on, 242 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 2: and they taught us how to fish, but. 243 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 3: I was never successful. You've got to have great patience. 244 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: Yeah you do. 245 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought my mother's my cousin actually trained as 246 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: a as a chef. They're quite a talented family because 247 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 2: one was changed as the chef, another was a music teacher, 248 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: so different times didn't really rub off me. 249 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: You're only the most genious economists sent you a real 250 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: file earlier in terms of success. But do you know 251 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: anything about your grandparents? Where they both sides? 252 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: Where they I met my grandfather. I never met my grandmother. 253 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: She died sadly of cancer quite quite quite young, when 254 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 2: he was still he had just started as a student 255 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 2: at Saint Andra's University, so she she died young, and 256 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: I met my grandmother on my mother's side, but again 257 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 2: her father had died young. So I met my father's 258 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 2: father and mother's mother. 259 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: You have memories of like reunions. 260 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 3: And great getting on the table members. Yeah, getting getting 261 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 3: around the table is. 262 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: You remember tables? Do you remember? 263 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 2: A very important They bring people together. People sitting around 264 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: the table. They find a way of talking to each other, 265 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: find a way of relating to each other. My Sarah 266 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 2: has always insisted. So we've obviously got to two kids, 267 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 2: and she's always insisted that one meal a day, if 268 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 2: they're at home, we're all sitting around the same table. 269 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 2: And that's a really good thing. Could you catch I 270 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 2: actually went to see Ted Kennedy in Cape. I met 271 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 2: him a few times in Hyannas. And what was amazing 272 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: about Ted Kennedy is he always had these dinners sat 273 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 2: around the table, and it must have been what his 274 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: father had insisted on. And Ted always started a conversation, conversation, 275 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 2: always had It was really a political discussion in the end. 276 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: So I arrived quite innocently, and of course he's blasting 277 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: away against the Iraq War. 278 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 3: You know. 279 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: So yeah, what would you were you government at the time? 280 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: When you were government and I wasn't. I wasn't that 281 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 2: keen on the air ut war as you know. But 282 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: but Ted was a great guy. So you know, this 283 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 2: idea of sitting around the table talking to people over food, 284 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: did your. 285 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: Parents do it? You did when you were Do you 286 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: have one brother. 287 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,119 Speaker 2: I've got an older brother and a younger brother, and 288 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: they are and very. 289 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: Close to them, like around the table Brown. 290 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 2: I was the quiet one. Actually, my older brother was 291 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: far more assertive. And actually the first charity I was 292 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: involved in when I was ten and eleven, it was 293 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 2: my brother who got me into. My older brother was 294 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: actually the Freedom from Hunger campaign, which was run by 295 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 2: Oxfam right in the early nineteen sixties. And so my 296 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: brother was very innovative. He led me. I was his follower, 297 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: and he started a local newspaper to raise money for 298 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: Freedom from Hunger, and he ran a food shop. So 299 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 2: my mother was baking what was called tablet, you know, 300 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: and selling this and all sorts of provisions. 301 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: What was tabot? 302 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 3: Is it sort of sugary sort of something you eat? 303 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah. 304 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: And they called it a top shop, a top shop, yeah, 305 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: show yeah. And so they raised the money. We raised 306 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: the money for charity through this, but it was for 307 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 2: the Freedom from Hunger campaign and there was a local 308 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 2: newspaper and there was a magazine, and then there was 309 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 2: this fund raising and then you went door to door 310 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 2: to sell the newspaper. But that's the first time that 311 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: I sort of realized that I'd been taking food for granted, 312 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: you know, and other people didn't have it. And one 313 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 2: of the things in politics, of course, is you've got 314 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 2: to go to so many dinners. Yeah, and you know, 315 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 2: you go around the country and you're speaking at dinners 316 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 2: and you you know, and all that sort of thing. 317 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 2: I had this sort of amazing experience when I just 318 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: started as a member of Parliament and I was invited 319 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: to speak to this group of pensioners, elderly pensioners. And 320 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: I can remember the place. This is thirty forty years ago, 321 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: and I arrived there and I've rushed in and I 322 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 2: said of the chairman, how long do you want me 323 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 2: to speak? You know, I just whispered to him, how 324 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: long do you want me to speak? And he said 325 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: forty five minutes. So I stand up and they talk 326 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: about pensions. There's nothing that is not said about pensions. 327 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 2: I've spoken about the international comparisons what's happened in the 328 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: last hundred years. And I sort of sat down after 329 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: about forty minutes to what you might call less than 330 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: good applause, and the chairman then stands up and says, 331 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. He said, we're running out of time. The 332 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: food is now called. He said, the band, you're going 333 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 2: to have to cut your repertoire, and there's no time 334 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: for more speakers. And I said, I thought you said 335 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: forty five minutes, YID four to five. 336 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 3: He'd whispered it and I've got it wrong. So everybody 337 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: there was getting cold food as a result of my. 338 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 4: Sort of I've never forgotten that, because it's a good lesson. 339 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 3: You've got to check. You've got to check how much. 340 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: When I interviewed Tony Blaire, we did a podcast and 341 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: he was talking about Downing Street and food, and he 342 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: was saying that you know that you when you were 343 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: working in the morning and you had to have lunch, 344 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: somebody would go down and get sandwiches and bring them back, 345 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: that there wasn't a chef or cook in Downing Street 346 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: to prepare food, except if there was an occasion. 347 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 3: I thought. 348 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,719 Speaker 2: I found that there was a canteen, there was a canteen. Yeah, 349 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 2: and they actually a day or two after I left 350 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 2: Downing Street in twenty ten, I got a bill for 351 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: eight hundred pounds I remember it well, for breakfast that 352 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 2: i'd had. That you'd go down to work and I 353 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: get up quite early. You go to work and maybe 354 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: about eight o'clock you'd asked for breakfast. Someone to get 355 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: down and get some breakfast the canteen. 356 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 3: I didn't know. I didn't know what was sounding. Sure 357 00:17:58,520 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: paid the whatever. 358 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 2: But anyway, the day I left Downing Street, someone had 359 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 2: obviously decided to send me a bill. So I got 360 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 2: a bill for eight hundred pounds for breakfast, and then 361 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: a day later I got a bill for five thousand 362 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 2: pounds for books. And I said, all right, I'm happy 363 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 2: to pay for the breakfast. You know i'd had the breakfast, 364 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 2: but the books, I said, I don't have the books. 365 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 2: They're in the Downing Street library. They said, but you 366 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: ordered the books, and I said, but we had to 367 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: read them to do our speeches, and you've got the books. 368 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: Charge me for the books that I have in my possession. 369 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: So that was my experience. I got a bill for 370 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: food and a big bill for books. 371 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: I think it's a culture. Sure at the I Palace, 372 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: mister Macron does not have to worry about breakfast or lunch. 373 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: I think Downing Street has gone an official if I 374 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 2: remember right, They've got an official list of caterers that 375 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 2: are approved caterers and mainly for security reasons, and that's 376 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 2: that's how it works. But you know, if you invited 377 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: people to checkers, you paid for that, yeah, you know, 378 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 2: and you paid for anybody was a guest. So no, 379 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: I mean, look when you go into Dining Street, and 380 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 2: it must have happened to Kis Timon a few months ago, 381 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: someone comes to you from the Civil Service and says, 382 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 2: Downing Street is in need of repair, It needs to 383 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 2: be refurbished. Can you approve this plan because it needs 384 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: all this redecoration refurbishment and you know it's a very 385 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 2: old building because you know it's and then you say, well, 386 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: you know, how's it how long is it going to take? 387 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 2: And they're going to say, well you'll have to be 388 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 2: out of Downing Street for at least five years, and. 389 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 4: No Prime ministers that it's not like you're even going 390 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 4: to be Prime minister. Trust you know she'd agreed to 391 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 4: you know, she was only there for a few days. 392 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 4: But the idea that you come in as a prime 393 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 4: minister and the minute you're in you're advised by the 394 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 4: civil service that you've got to leave for five years 395 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 4: and you don't know if you'll ever be back, and 396 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 4: in my case it wouldn't. 397 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been back, and you have to move 398 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 2: to another building. So that's why, you know, the sort 399 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: of refurbishment of Downing Street is, you know, is never 400 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 2: really going to happen. 401 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: Do you remember there's any fantastic state dinner? Is it 402 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: bucking In Palace. 403 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 2: Or I was bucking Palace when President Obama was there. 404 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: I was at Windsor Castle when the President Sarkozi was there. Yeah, 405 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 2: these are incredible events, I mean, and I think there 406 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 2: was one for President Trump on a few weeks ago. 407 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: And obviously they're very well organized and very well, very 408 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 2: well done, but Downing Street doesn't have that facility. When 409 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,239 Speaker 2: we went to the G twenty in two thousand and 410 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: nine in Downing Street, we did have to organize the 411 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: dinner because we had all the people from the leaders there, 412 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: so we had a dinner for them. All I remember 413 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 2: from this is Prime Minister Berlusconi was there. So we 414 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 2: have the dinner, we have a discussion on the future 415 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 2: of the world economy, and I'm telling them we've got 416 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 2: a plan, we can do something about it, and that 417 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 2: don't be a pessimistic And I reminded them that Churchill 418 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 2: had complained in the nineteen thirties that all the politicians 419 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: have been resolved to be a resolute adamant for drifts, 420 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 2: solid for fluidity, and all powerful for impotence. 421 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 3: Great quote. 422 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 2: And so we had the dinner and then we went 423 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 2: down and all I remember is someone telling me after 424 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 2: was that Prime Minister Bellasconni was down. Naomi Campbell was there, 425 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 2: and he went up and said, very nice to meet you. 426 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 2: Can I have your telephone number? Naomi might be able 427 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 2: to confirm that. 428 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: But do you remember any of the. 429 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 3: It? 430 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: Did you think when you were going to France? So 431 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: that's great because we're going to have a fantastic meal 432 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: going to Italy. Do you like it? Do you ever 433 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: go to Italy? 434 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 2: Italy is a wonderful place. And we've spent some great 435 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 2: time in Florence, and I took my son around Venice, 436 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 2: and we've stayed in Florence and in other parts of Italy, 437 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 2: and of course Italian food, which you specialized, is absolutely 438 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: brilliant and I do a lot like it. And I've 439 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: been to Italy to see Scotland playing in the World Cup. 440 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 2: I've been to Italy for political events. I've been to 441 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 2: Italy to the European Institute. At the University. 442 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: In Vatican, I. 443 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 2: Met the Pope and the Pope venedict it was when 444 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 2: I was When I was there and he kindly invited 445 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 2: me to bring not just Sarah, but two boys, and 446 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,719 Speaker 2: he was very kind to them, and I persuaded them 447 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 2: both to wear ties for that day. No, I persuaded 448 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 2: them to wear shirts. I think one of them refused 449 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: to wear a tie. 450 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 3: So it's no the Vatican is quiet place. 451 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 2: It's it's a really interesting place because I can think 452 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 2: I can tell this story now. The day that I 453 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 2: met the Pope to discuss our global health initiative, which 454 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: was about nutrition as well as about health. We'd held 455 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: a conference to launch new initiative in Rome and the 456 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 2: Pope invited us all into the Vatican and we were 457 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 2: to meet him and I was, in a sense the 458 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 2: leader of the delegation but also Queen. 459 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 3: Rainia of Jordan. 460 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 2: Jordan, very nice and a person who's very much involved 461 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 2: in the international development work. She was also one of 462 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 2: the leaders of the delegation. And we arrived at the 463 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 2: entrance of the room where we were going to meet 464 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 2: the Pope and she she hadn't appeared, and said, where 465 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 2: where is Queen Queen Rainia? And my friend the minister 466 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 2: Streaty Videra, whom you made know, Baroness VideA, she was there, 467 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 2: and the officials of the Vatican kept saying, you know, 468 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 2: pushing Shriti forward as if she was the leader of 469 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 2: the of the group. And what had happened was the 470 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 2: officials at the Vatican had thought Queen Rainier was Shreeti Verdeera, 471 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,239 Speaker 2: and Shreety Videera was Queen Rainier, and Queen Rainia had 472 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 2: been put into a room as if she was an 473 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: official and not the Queen. 474 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: You couldn't find her. 475 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 2: And we eventually we eventually found, but it was we 476 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: had an audience with the Pope. So Vatican's an amazing place, 477 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 2: as you know, and it was a very interesting event, 478 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 2: but we didn't eat there. 479 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: I can say, do you ever think about food when 480 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: you when you know, when you wake up in the morning. 481 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: What am I going to eat today? 482 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 2: Or everybody's different on me. I work best in the morning, 483 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 2: you know. You know, sometimes I do book festivals and 484 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,479 Speaker 2: you think you're going to get questions about what your 485 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: political views, and suddenly someone says, when is the best 486 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: time that you write? 487 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 3: You know? 488 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 2: And some people say the evening, don't they some people? 489 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 2: I remember Roy Jenkins telling me that when he wrote 490 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 2: his books, and he wrote very good books, he said, 491 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 2: you know, I sit down about six seven o'clock in 492 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 2: the evening with a bottle of wine. I drink it 493 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: and I start writing, and gradually I'm rather inebriated, but 494 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 2: I'm still writing, whereas I can only work best in 495 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: the morning. 496 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 1: In the morning, how much time do you wake up? 497 00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 3: Five o'clock do you? 498 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: So break is the most important meal for me, because 499 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: you know, by sort of eight o'clock you're quite you're 500 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 2: quite hungry, and so I enjoy enjoy yourself. I don't 501 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 2: make breakfast, but usually poached eggs, sometimes smoke salmons, sometimes 502 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 2: tomatows and sometimes toast, you know, and then lunch lunch 503 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 2: that don't take much for lunch off and soup, but 504 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 2: it's Scotland. All my father's family come from a farming 505 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 2: background and I think they're all used to getting up 506 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: really early and working from five six o'clock, and I 507 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 2: think it just follows on generation to generation. 508 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: You're writing a book now. 509 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 2: I'm working on something about really what's what's what's happening 510 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 2: to the world order and why every pillar of the 511 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 2: world order, the rule of law, democracy, human rights, multilateral cooperations, 512 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 2: humanityian aid, environmental stewardship, all these pillars that have been 513 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 2: built up to support a sort of rules base world 514 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 2: order that was delivering, for examples, progress on sustainable development 515 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 2: goals and everything else. Why that's been crumbling over the 516 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 2: last few years, and what we can actually do about it, 517 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: and what we found. We've done this study of opinion 518 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 2: around the world and it's really interesting. We've found that 519 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: the public, when they're talking about international cooperation, take a 520 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: far more common sense for you, about the need for 521 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 2: it than some of our politicians. So you've got America first, 522 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 2: India first, China first, Russia first. You know, you know, 523 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 2: my country first, and only in some cases my tribe only. 524 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 2: But people are far more sensible. They understand that we 525 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: need to cooperate with each other. 526 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: So it's interesting to me why do they vote for governments. 527 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: Promise because I think what's happening is that people want change, 528 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 2: and I think they turned to whoever offers them change, 529 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 2: and so they try one group, and then they try 530 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 2: another group, and then they try another group, and I think, 531 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: you know, we have got to deliver the kind of 532 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 2: change that people want. And I think, I mean, that's 533 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 2: what I think. Most governments are realizing that they're being 534 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 2: marked down because people want change. 535 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: You tell me about multi bank. 536 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 2: Multi bank is about change, really, because it's about how 537 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 2: we can build a better crisis support system for people. 538 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: You know, when you think of it, every family has 539 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: problems and crises and emergencies. So you could have a 540 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 2: death in the family, you can have a redundancy, you 541 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: can have a breakup of the family, you can have 542 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 2: canceled the family. All these things can go wrong. The 543 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 2: question is do we have a support system for people 544 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 2: when things go wrong. So food banks have come into 545 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 2: existence because it's the only way that people can actually 546 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 2: find the means of getting food. So you've got mothers 547 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 2: at the end of a backbreaking work, and it could 548 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 2: be nurses and teachers as well as some of the 549 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: lowest paid workers who cannot make me ends meet, and 550 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 2: so they queue up at food banks to get to 551 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 2: get what they need. But what we discovered was that 552 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 2: people were missing out not just in food. In fact, 553 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 2: they might actually find the money to buy some food, 554 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 2: but they weren't buying sort of shampoo, soap, toothpaste, you know, 555 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 2: cleaning materials, bedding. And then you had this whole question 556 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: of clothes. You have this whole question of baby clothes 557 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 2: and baby goods. And so we thought that in addition 558 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 2: to the being a food bank, we'd side by side, 559 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: we'd have what we call a multi bank. So you've 560 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 2: got a food bank, closed bank, bedding bank, furnishings bank 561 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 2: all rolled into one. So we've given out about as 562 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: a group of people with I think about twelve to 563 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 2: twelve million goods worth about one hundred million pounds over 564 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: the last year or two, and we're going up to 565 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 2: twenty million goods as soon as possible. The reason that 566 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,239 Speaker 2: this is working, and this is relevant to food, is 567 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 2: that there is so much waste and if there is 568 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 2: goods that are being destroyed or being thrown away or incinerated, 569 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 2: but they are still useful goods that could be used 570 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 2: by other people, and that includes the waste of food, 571 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 2: but it also includes other goods that are perfectly usable 572 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 2: but are either out of fashion or a company's gone 573 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: bust or something. We get these goods and it is 574 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 2: amazing that small things can make a big difference. When 575 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 2: we opened our multi bank in Wigan, on the day 576 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 2: we opened, a father came in and he said, take 577 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: my son. I can't keep him anymore. I can't afford them, 578 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 2: and walked out and the son was in tears and 579 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 2: it was just so sad. But we managed to get 580 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 2: the son that he is a social worker and we 581 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 2: got him with his bands around sixteen sixteen what was it, 582 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 2: you know, and he was in a flood of tears, 583 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: but we managed to do something to help. A few 584 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: weeks ago a woman came pushing a baby in a trolley. 585 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 2: She did not have a pram and we were able 586 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 2: to get her a pram. You've got kids and there's 587 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 2: only one pair of football boots in the family and 588 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: there's two kids, and they've got to take it week in, 589 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 2: week out to go to training. So we can provide that. 590 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 2: When we opened in Wales, a girl came to us 591 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 2: and she had never had anything other than secondhand goods 592 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: in her life, and she was being humiliated at school 593 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 2: because she didn't have trainers. But we were able to 594 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: get her get a train. So small things can make 595 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 2: a difference. But basically, the scale of poverty for people 596 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 2: on very low incomes in our country is a real 597 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: social problem. Food banks have led the way. Food banks 598 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: have led the way, I think, to be fair, all 599 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 2: those great people who started local food banks, this is 600 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 2: a local movement where people have come and offered to 601 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 2: start their own food bank in their own area. And 602 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 2: we've got two or three in the constituency. 603 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: We go to them too. 604 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Because the food banks are usually run by volunteers, 605 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 2: it's difficult to have sort of ready made food. But 606 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: there is a very good project in London, food for Good, 607 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: which is run by Karen Mattison, and she has teaching 608 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 2: people how to cook and she's running the charity that 609 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: is not only providing people's meals but teaching people how 610 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 2: to cook meals and use food to be best effect. 611 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,239 Speaker 2: And she's published a recipe book actually but in this 612 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 2: book it's actually for tomato soup. I love tomato soup 613 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: and so tomatos with all sorts of ingredients in it. 614 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: But the person who was doing the book decided that 615 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 2: they would have to add onions to it to make 616 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 2: it make it sort of more edible and more attractive. 617 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 2: So I was given a lecture about how I could 618 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 2: have done. 619 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 3: A bit better. 620 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, iited to say, if if somebody asked me, 621 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: what if I hadn't been a cook in the restaurant, 622 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: would I have done? I said, I would either want 623 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: to be a singer in a nightclub or the prime minister. 624 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 3: Well, I would have had you in my part. You 625 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 3: would have made Downing Street. 626 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: A better place, a political center and a cent Yeah. 627 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: Okay, well, thank you for going this week. 628 00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 3: Thank you, it's been a real pleasure. 629 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: Thank you. Ruthie's Table for is proud to support Leukemia UK. 630 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: The Cartwheel for a Cure campaign raises funds for vital 631 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: research and more effective and kinder treatments for a cute 632 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: Malloyd leukemia. Please donate and to do so search Cartwell 633 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: for Cure