1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Well, first off, happy Independence Day. I hope everyone is 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: having an amazing day. I hope you're spending time with 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: the people you love. I hope you're spending time with 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: your friends, your family. Maybe you're on a trip, maybe 5 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: you're just doing a staycation, or maybe you even have 6 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: to work. But I hope it's a great day. Nonetheless, 7 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: as we celebrate Independence days, we celebrate America's independence from 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: a monarchy, we look today at what has really transpired 9 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: over the past few years, particularly during COVID and I 10 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: talk about this a lot on the show, but it 11 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: was so eye opening for me. I'm sure it was 12 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: for a lot of you guys at home. Of just 13 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: tyranny is here? Right? We're not immune to tyranny. Of course, 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: we weren't back when this nation was founded, but we're 15 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: certainly not today. And if you look back at the 16 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: founding generation or founding fathers, they didn't put up with it, right, 17 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: They weren't putting up with this oppressive regime from far 18 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: away trying to strangle their way of life, trying to 19 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: impose on their way of life, trying to dictate to 20 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: them their way of life. So why are we putting 21 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: up with it today, Right, Why are we putting up 22 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: with with our government? I'm not saying we don't have 23 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: to to obviously the tactics that are Founding Generation resorted to, 24 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: but there are other ways to fight back. There are 25 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,559 Speaker 1: other ways to fight back, you know, locally, to fight 26 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: back against government, to fight back against tyranny, and to 27 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: resist a little bit. So today what I want to 28 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: do is sort of revisit the foundations of America, Revisit 29 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: our founding fathers, revisit the Founding Generation. You know, why 30 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: was America born? You know what happened in the lead 31 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: up before the Decoration of Independence, you know what happened 32 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: to that lead up before July fourth, seventeen seventy six. 33 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: So we're going to get into that with a historian. 34 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: His name is doctor Bryan McClanahan. He has his own podcast, 35 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 1: The Brian McClanahan Show. You can check it out on Apple. 36 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: I listened to like five yesterday. It's super interesting. He 37 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: gets into a lot of real world issues, today's issues 38 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: from a historical perspective, and he just has really interesting 39 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: takes on it. He's a really smart guy. So he's 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: also the author and co author of books He's written 41 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: books like The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Founding Fathers 42 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: The Founding Father's Guide to the Constitution. He's a faculty 43 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: member at the tom Woods Liberty Classroom. He received a 44 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: bachelor's degree in history from Salisbury University, of masters in 45 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: history from the University of South Carolina, as well as 46 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: his PhD in history from the University of South Carolina. 47 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: It's just a really interesting guy. So today, on this 48 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: Independence Day, we're going to talk about individual liberty. We're 49 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: going to talk about freedom. We're going to talk about 50 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: the birth of America, why this country is special, why 51 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: this country needs to be preserved, and what we can 52 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: do to preserve it. So I hope you enjoy this 53 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: fourth of July Independence Day Special with doctor Brian McClanahan. 54 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Brian McClanahan, thanks so much for joining The Truth 55 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: with Lisa Booth. I appreciate your time. 56 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. 57 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: This is for the Independence Day Special. You know, we've 58 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: sort of seen a lot of narratives that we believe 59 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: to be true have been contradicted and shown to not 60 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: be true, and a lot of what we thought we 61 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: were insulated and immune from in America like tyranny. We 62 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 1: saw during COVID that we are actually not. So I 63 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: kind of wanted to revisit American history or nation's foundings 64 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: and sort of how far we've gone from that beginning, 65 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,399 Speaker 1: and I thought you'd be the perfect person for this episode. 66 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you having me on. Yes. I mean 67 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 2: it's when you look at what's happened in America over 68 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: the last couple of years, and I mean really in 69 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: the last one hundred plus years, and where where we've 70 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: come from and where we are today. There's a dramatic 71 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: difference between twenty twenty two and seventeen seventy five and 72 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: what Americans were willing to accept in seventeen seventy five 73 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: and what we're willing to accept today. If the founding 74 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: generation were dropped in twenty twenty two, they'd look at 75 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: all of us and say, what are you doing? You know, 76 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: we were willing to do far more for far less 77 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: than what you're willing to suffer through now. And so 78 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: it's a really important history lesson to get all of 79 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: this right, because if Americans really knew the story of independence, 80 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: I think they would be looking at things today dramatically different. 81 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: Well, and what's interesting is I was listening to your podcast. 82 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: It's really good. People should go take a look, So 83 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: subscribe the Brian McClanahan show. You sort of challenge a 84 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: lot of groupthink orthodoxy that you know, a lot of 85 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: people say a lot of points about history that may 86 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: or may not be true that we've been taught incorrectly 87 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: as well. But so you use founding generation instead of 88 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: just talking about the founding fathers. Why do you make 89 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: that distinction? 90 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: Well, because if you just say to founding fathers, people 91 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: think it's the fifty five men who drafted the Constitution, 92 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: or it's maybe six people. I mean, I've call them 93 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 2: the Big Six. You know, it's Washington, Adams, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin. 94 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: And of course that's incorrect. You had an entire generation 95 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: of Americans through thirteen states that were interested in these 96 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: principles that we all think about today, independence, liberty, all 97 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 2: these things. And so when you talk about the Constitution, 98 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: for example, the Constitution wasn't ratified by fifty five guys. 99 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: It was ratified by thirteen states, and you had a 100 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: large public discussion about what that meant. And so there's 101 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: a lot of people in that generation of founders that 102 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: we wouldn't recognize. For example, Roger Sherman of Connecticut, who 103 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 2: was so important in that period of time, but nobody 104 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: knows who he is. Or even people that you might 105 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: recognize their name, like George Mason or Virginia, but you 106 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: don't really know much about him. So were John Dickinson 107 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: of Pennsylvania. And this is a bigger issue than just 108 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: a few guys sitting in Philadelphia in seventeen eighty seven, 109 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 2: or even just the delegates to the Continental Congress in 110 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: seventeen seventy six. There's so much more to this, and 111 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: I think we need to be comprehensive. And when we 112 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 2: talk about this generation of people, there was a variety 113 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 2: of viewpoints, but at the end of the day, they 114 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 2: were all committed to one particular principle, and that was 115 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: a limited central authority. And when they're talking about the 116 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 2: British and the relationship between the British and the American colonies, 117 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: and of course that would translate later in to the 118 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: Constitution and the Articles of Confederation and the Declaration. So 119 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: they're all committed to that and also to that principle 120 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: of independence, and I think that's something we often forget. 121 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: How much of what we are taught about history is 122 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: actually true. 123 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: Well, that's a big question when you think about the 124 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 2: Founding period. There's a lot that people get right, even 125 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: the leftist historians or things they get right. But I 126 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: would say that the real problem in America with teaching 127 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: history is politicizing everything. You know, if we're talking about 128 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: the eighteenth century, it has to be political. And what 129 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: I mean by that is these people have to be 130 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: twenty first century Americans. If they're not, then we're just 131 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: going to discard them. And this is the entire agenda, 132 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: going after people like Washington and Jefferson now for things 133 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: that they did that we don't do today, or views 134 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: that they held that we don't hold today. But that's 135 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: the real problem. It's saying, Okay, well Washington's a great man. 136 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 2: Well wait a second, because he owned slaves, he's not 137 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 2: really that great of a man. Or Jefferson's a great man. 138 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 2: We'll wait a second because he owned slaves and he's 139 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: not a great man so, or because he held views 140 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 2: on race that we don't hold today. So this is 141 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: the real issue. It's not that we're taught things incorrectly. 142 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: It's that everything is politicized and has an agenda behind 143 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: all of it. So instead of just using history as 144 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: a point, we can say, well, these people were great, 145 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: Let's look at what they said, and we know that 146 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: they do things or say things and we don't necessarily 147 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: agree with today. But what do they offer us for 148 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 2: Americans in the twenty first century. We have to discard 149 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 2: them because they are not twenty first century Americans. And 150 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: that's called presentism. And I think that's the real issue 151 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: with historical profession. 152 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense, a ton of sense. Actually, 153 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, before we kind of get into abbreviated TikTok 154 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: of what led up to the Declaration of Independence, what 155 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: do we typically get wrong about the American Revolution? 156 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the most important things is 157 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: that it was simply about taxation, and of course that 158 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: was an issue, But the real core issue leading into 159 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: independence was this idea that somehow the the parliament could 160 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: legislate for the colonies in all cases whatsoever. That's what 161 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: Tom Paine said in the American Crisis. That was the issue. 162 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: They were certainly willing to concede that parliament could regulate 163 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: international trade or defend the colonies. But what they didn't 164 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: want Parliament doing was going in and saying, Okay, these 165 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: are the taxes you have to have, and this is 166 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: the currency you have to use. These are the things 167 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: you have to do in the colonies. Because of course 168 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: the colonies had their own legislatures and the parliament. There 169 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: was no representation in Parliament for these colonies. So there 170 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: was a violation of the ancient rights of Englishmen. So 171 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: Patrick Henry talked about it was this idea that somehow 172 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: parliament had supremacy over these colonies when they simply didn't 173 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: have any role in that parliament. So when we simplify 174 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 2: this period of time, we're make it into about lofty 175 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 2: rights that were fabricated out of thin air, that you 176 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: know this that we do today, the proposition nation equality, 177 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 2: these kind of things. I mean, they certainly talked about 178 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 2: that stuff, but at the core, it was simply about 179 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: making sure that they could govern themselves, and they were 180 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 2: firmly committed to the Magna Carta, the English Bill of Rights. 181 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 2: These it was an Anglo American tradition they were fighting for. 182 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 2: So I think that's the major misconception that it was 183 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: just a simple no taxation, we don't want to be taxed, 184 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: or you know, we're willing to fight for some some 185 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: other kind of principle that you know, it's something in 186 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: the air that just doesn't make any sense. It was 187 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: certainly a commitment to this idea of local self government 188 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 2: that they were more concerned about than anything else. 189 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: Well, and to that point, did it start with the 190 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: Stamp Act, because I know you had the Sugar Act 191 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: the year before, I believe, But the Stamp Act I 192 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: believe was a tax on items within the colonies, which 193 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: to your point was sort of this government interference from 194 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: a government far away that they did not have representation, 195 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: they did not have input. Was that sort of the 196 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: turning point? And when that relationship changed and the role 197 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: of government changed within these colonies. 198 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, absolutely, I mean you point out the Sugar 199 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 2: Act the year before seventeen sixty four, but by seventeen 200 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: sixty five, you know when the colony when the Parliament 201 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: passes the Stamp Act and the colonies were react to 202 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: that in the way they did. It was exactly what 203 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 2: you said, Well, you know what, you're not going to 204 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: a tax us internally when that's breaking over one hundred 205 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: years of precedent. I mean, you go back to the 206 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: era of salutary neglects, what is called the parliament let 207 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 2: the colonies alone, they could govern themselves, and so that 208 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: developed a system in their mind, a precedent for governance. 209 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: And so when the Stampack comes about, the colonial legislatures say, 210 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: you know, we're just not going to this. This is unconstitutional. 211 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 2: And of course the resistance was what we would call 212 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: today nullification. They actually used it that that that was 213 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 2: born out of it. We're just not going to enforce 214 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 2: the stamp Act, and we're going to tell our courts 215 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 2: not to enforce. We're not going to have anybody charged 216 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 2: with breaking the stamp back. So the resistance was, Okay, 217 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: you can pass a law in parliament, we're just not 218 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: going to enforce it here in the colonies. And you 219 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 2: saw this across what became the United States. It wasn't 220 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 2: just you know, Massachusetts or but it was in Virginia. 221 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 2: There was there was certainly resistance in every colony to 222 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 2: this Stampack. And that's because they viewed it as an 223 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: unconstitutional measure. And think about all the things we have 224 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: today that are unconstitutional. People just live with it. Okay, yeah, fine, 225 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 2: they can pass it. We'll just go along with it. 226 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: But that would not be the founding response to it. 227 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: Or you know, you look at COVID, it's not even law. 228 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: You just have executive order dictating how we live our 229 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: lives or shutting businesses down. That people have put everything 230 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: into their whole livelihoods, their ability to feed their kids 231 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: without a blink of the eye. But then, you know, 232 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: but you can ride in the street that first amendment, 233 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: right is you know worthy, but not going to church. 234 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: So yeah, so I think a lot of people can 235 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: sort of sympathize with that. So to be clear, you know, 236 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: before sort of you know, like the Stamp Act, and 237 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, there's a bunch of different actions and provocations 238 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: that the British government takes against the colonists. But so 239 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: there was really sort of a system of self governance 240 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: to a certain degree, even though they're part of the 241 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: British government. Is that correct? 242 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely? I mean every colony had its own legislature. In fact, 243 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: the first legislature in North America was established the sixth 244 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 2: nineteen in Virginia. That's the other sixteen nineteen, right, we 245 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 2: have the sixteen nineteen project. But the real importance of 246 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: sixteen nineteen was that first legislature in Virginia elected legislature, 247 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 2: and so you had local government here, and I think 248 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: that's what we miss now. Of course, every colony by 249 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: the eighteenth century had a governor, a royal governor that 250 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 2: was appointed by the crown. But still these colonies had 251 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 2: the ability to legislate for themselves. And they were very 252 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 2: upset about the fact that you had Parliament stepping in 253 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 2: and saying, okay, well, you know, we spent all this 254 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 2: money on defending you during the during the French and 255 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 2: Indian War, and so now you're going to pay for that, 256 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 2: and we're going to tell you how you're going to 257 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: pay for it. And so this was the issue. It 258 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 2: was legislating for them in all cases whatsoever. And Tompaign 259 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: called it tyranny. He said, that's it. If we can't 260 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: legislate for ourselves, if we can't dictate what kind of 261 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 2: legislation will accept for ourselves, And there's no other definition 262 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: but tiranny than that. And so when you look back 263 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: at this period, it was and you talked about COVID 264 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 2: and everything else. I mean, again, we're willing to suffer 265 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: in the United States today for far, you know, far 266 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: more than what the founding generation was. I mean, they 267 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 2: were not happy about a small tax that was being 268 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 2: levied against them against their will, and they were willing 269 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 2: to declare their independence over it. And how much are 270 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: we willing to accept today? 271 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: How much of a leadism sort of came into play, 272 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: Like even though like George Washington was read, she's not 273 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: a British noble, right, he probably still felt like they 274 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: were thumbing their nose at him, looking down upon him. 275 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: How much of that sort of had to play in here. 276 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question when you think about the 277 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: leadership in the colonies. If you just use Virginia as 278 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 2: an example. I mean, a lot of these people believe 279 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 2: they were in so many ways kind of a part 280 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: of this old gentrification system in Great Britain. I mean, 281 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: you have the distressed cavaliers that came over to Virginia 282 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: and they established plantations. But certainly there was an anti 283 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: monarch stance in America. I wouldn't say it was dramatically 284 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 2: democratic the way we think of it today, but they 285 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: were certainly more democratic than which you would find in 286 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 2: Great Britain. As far as the elitist position. I mean, 287 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: they certainly didn't care for the for the hereditary monarchy. 288 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 2: They at least a portion of the founding generation didn't. 289 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: They didn't care for it. There were those, of course 290 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: did I mean there were there were Tories in America, 291 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 2: so they were certainly fine with the monarchy. But those 292 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: that were interested independence, I mean that attack on the 293 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: king or this hereditary system was something they didn't like. 294 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: And this is why when there was an executive proposed 295 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 2: in Philadelphia in seventeen eighty seven, they all sat in 296 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: sun Stylus for a minute. They said, you know what, 297 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 2: my gosh, this is we're going to get a king, 298 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 2: and we didn't want that. And so when you look 299 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: at the artist of Articles of Confederation, there's no monarchy 300 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 2: in that, there's no executive. So that was something they 301 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: were certainly concerned about, and that elite I don't know 302 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: if it was necessary elitism, but they certainly didn't like 303 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: the hereditary monarchical system to a great extent. 304 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: Quick commercial break back with doctor Brian McClanahan on the 305 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: other side, talk about sort of like the provocations, these 306 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: acts where that revolutionary spirit just started to build up. 307 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: You know, we talked about the Stamp Back, you talked 308 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: about the Sugar Act. You know, you got the Tact, 309 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: the Township Acts, all these different things, you know, talk 310 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: about sort of that build up and that increase just 311 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: frustration with the heavy hand of you know, the British 312 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: government kind of you know, putting it down on their necks. 313 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: Sure well, I mean, if you, if you one of 314 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: my favorite characters in all that is Sam Adams, because 315 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: Sam Adams was the guy that we all know. This 316 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: person they stand on the corner or nowadays it's on 317 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: the Internet and they say, you know, it's going to 318 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: get bad. It's going to get worse. Just wait, it's 319 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 2: going to get worse. It doesn't matter what's going on 320 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 2: this things are going to get worse. Just wait and see, 321 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: just watch take my word for it. And so if 322 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 2: you look at seventeen sixty five and the Stamp Act 323 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: and the response to that, it actually works. I mean, 324 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: the colonists figured out that if they could go after 325 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: the British and the Parliament in their wallet, it was 326 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: going to help. And so the response was either mullification 327 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: or non importation. They set up ways to hurt the 328 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 2: empire economically, but of course by seventeen sixty seven the 329 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: Parliament is doubling down. And then by seventeen seventy you 330 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 2: see things get pretty bad, right, I mean, it's you 331 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 2: have your five years away from the ultimate break. But 332 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: you had a period of law between seventeen seventy and 333 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: seventeen seventy two when there wasn't a whole lot going on. 334 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: But by seventeen seventy three, again you see these bills 335 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: by parliament ramping up. And this is the North Parliament. 336 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 2: I mean, they certainly believed that the colonies were their 337 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 2: subjects and they needed to be to pay their fair 338 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: share and do what the Parliament told them. And you know, 339 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: you look at things like the Intallible Acts, which eventually 340 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: came about because of the Tea Act and the response 341 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: to that. One thing we missed about the Tact, by 342 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: the way, let me just say this is that it 343 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: wasn't really a tax on tea that the colonists were 344 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: concerned about. It was establishing the monopoly only certain partners 345 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: could trade that bridge. She's India tea, and so they 346 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: thought that was a violation of good economic sense. And 347 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: of course the creating a royal monopoly in the colonies, 348 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 2: and so that's why they resisted it. But when you 349 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: look at the intolerable acts, I mean shutting down the 350 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: Massachusetts government saying that you're going to be essentially part 351 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 2: of Canada, which at that time was where they're where 352 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 2: they're linking them in. That was Catholic, and so you 353 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,479 Speaker 2: had this religious resistance there as well. But that was 354 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 2: the real issue. It was taking away those colonial charters 355 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 2: essentially and saying you're going to be under us, directly 356 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 2: under our thumb. That was the point when I think 357 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 2: everyone realized, Okay, this is going to get really bad, 358 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 2: and if we're willing to accept this now, there's no 359 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 2: turning back. I mean, they're going to say to us 360 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 2: that they can abolish our legislatures. They can they can 361 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 2: do whatever they want to us. You had in Virginia 362 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 2: right that the Groyl governor shut down the legislature of 363 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: the House of Burgesses, and so they went and met 364 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,719 Speaker 2: in the tavern and said, Okay, we're going to beat 365 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: in Raleigh tavern. We're going to legislate anyways, because you 366 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: can't annihilate our legislature. So that was the real point 367 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 2: when you had these intolerable acts. Even though they were 368 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 2: directed only at Massachusetts, the other colonies reacted to it 369 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: and saying, well, if it's going to happen there, it's 370 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 2: going to happen here. And of course Sam Adams has 371 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 2: proven correct. He said, just wait, this is all going 372 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 2: to get bad and eventually, and eventually it did. 373 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: Well, I've got a lot of people saying that about 374 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: where we are today too, but we'll get to that 375 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: in a little bit. You know, how important were things 376 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: like the Boston Tea Party, obviously a massive fu to 377 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: the British government and just spurring that public sentiment of 378 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: rilling people up to being like, you know what it's on, right? 379 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: I mean, the Boston Tea Party in terms of propaganda 380 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 2: was very important. You had, of course Paul Revere and 381 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: you know, involved in creating images of this thing. But 382 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 2: when you look at the actual massacre itself, the term massacre, 383 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 2: I mean it was it was it wasn't really a 384 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: massacre with the loss of life, but the the the 385 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 2: way that they could sell this to the public was 386 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: and of course the colonists were somewhat responsible for this. 387 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 2: I mean they're harassing the British soldiers or throwing ice 388 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 2: at him, and there was a lot of question about 389 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: whether you know, there was even an order given to 390 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 2: fire by the British or if this was somebody staying 391 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 2: in the shadows yelling fire. Of course, there's also a 392 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 2: fire and actual physical fire in Boston at that point, 393 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: and so maybe somebody got a little itchy trigger finger 394 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 2: and they fired. But the important part about it too 395 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: was the response by John Adams, who thought that these 396 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 2: soldiers needed a fair trial because if they didn't get 397 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: a fair trial, then the Parliament could look at him 398 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 2: and say, well, I mean we're gonna we're gonna ship 399 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 2: you back over to London to stand trial, so for 400 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 2: anything else. So he wanted to ensure that these soldiers 401 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: got a fair trial, and they did. He actually was 402 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: able to get several of them acquitted. So that response 403 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 2: to is interesting. Adams did that to great expense of 404 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 2: his of his career at least at that point, but 405 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 2: in terms of propaganda, it's huge because now you have 406 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 2: dead people in the streets, and there were other there 407 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: was another event in New York City where you had 408 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,479 Speaker 2: a similar kind of you know riot. There was some 409 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 2: there was some bloodshed there too, so that I mean 410 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 2: that part of that period of time, that little bit 411 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 2: of violence. But again things calmed down after that for 412 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: a couple of years, and then it was it ramped 413 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 2: back up again leading into seventeen seventy five. 414 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: Well, and you also had, you know, other public acts 415 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: of rebellion like the Boston Tea Party as well. 416 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean the Boston Tea There are many tea parties. 417 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 2: That's that's a fun part of this too. The Boston 418 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: Tea Party where the most conspicuous where they threw the 419 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 2: tea into the harbor. But you actually had tea parties 420 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: in Maryland. You had so you had one there where 421 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: the citizens of Maryland took all the tea off the 422 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 2: ship and then burned it. And of course the funny 423 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 2: thing about that is they sold it, right, They didn't 424 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: just throw it in the harbor. They took it and 425 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 2: they sold it and they used the money to finance 426 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 2: their activities against the crown. So that was the more 427 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 2: wise thing to do than just throwing it in the harbor. 428 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 2: But this, the response of it to the Tea Act, 429 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 2: was not just in Boston. It was it was again 430 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 2: across the colony. So these public resistance to these unco 431 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 2: constitution or in toable acts was something very important in 432 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: leading up to the war. And again when we think 433 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: about today, we had the tea Party movement for a 434 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 2: little while and people you can thrown little tea bags 435 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: into the water. I mean, that's that's funny. But I 436 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 2: don't know if Americans are as committed today as as 437 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 2: the founding generation was, as standing up for things that 438 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: they considered to be their liberties if but I am 439 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 2: encouraged by what happened with COVID and people finally saying enough, 440 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 2: we're just not gonna wear the masks. We're not going 441 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 2: to do this. We're not gonna We're not going to 442 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 2: abide by your stupid edicts. These things are illegal, they're unconstitutional. 443 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 2: I think that's that was encouraging, and also the response 444 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: from various states and saying, you know, federal government, you're 445 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: really want to have this power. We're going to do 446 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 2: what we want to do in Florida, for example, in 447 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 2: Ronda Santis. So that was the spirit of independence and 448 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: I think that's something again that's lacking throughout most of America, 449 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 2: but it is still there in many parts of the 450 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: United States. And that's a good thing to see. 451 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: And also I think I'm acron helped too, because basically 452 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: all these people who think they thought they could hide 453 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: in their basements for two years got COVID and then 454 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, well I don't care anymore. It's sort 455 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: of like deprogrammed these crazy people. 456 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 2: So right, as more and more people got it and 457 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: they figured out it was a bad cold, and of course, 458 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: you know, you can't minimize it. Initially it was. It 459 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 2: was pretty rough on a lot of people, and a 460 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: lot of elderly people in particular. But you know, our 461 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 2: response to it, the government's response to it was very 462 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 2: much a British type response initially, and I think that's 463 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: that's something we miss in all this, and of course 464 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 2: not everyone did, but it's a yeah, you're right. As 465 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: people started seeing this is not something that we should fear, 466 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: and they got back in and so forget it. We're 467 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 2: just going to live our lives. And I think that 468 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: was another great part of the whole thing at the 469 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: end of the day. 470 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: But to your point, you know, thank god for people 471 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: like Governor DeSantis fighting against the federal government and saying 472 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: we're just not going to do this year. This makes 473 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: no sense and having the guts and you know, the 474 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: fortitude to do that. So you know, you got the 475 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: Continental Congress starts meeting in seventeen seventy four, and then 476 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: we've got the declaration, the signing of the Declaration in 477 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: Dependence on July fourth, seventeen seventy six, ratified by the 478 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: Second Continental Congress. Between the first and then this second 479 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: Continental Congress, what sort of because my understanding is like 480 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: the first one that not everyone was really it was 481 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: more of just kind of like setting a message saying, look, 482 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: this is sort of what we want. It wasn't really 483 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: at that point of saying, you know, we're we're full throttle, 484 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: we're you know, we're all in on declaring independence. So 485 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: what kind of well, first of all, you know, correct 486 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. Secondly, what sort of transpired between 487 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: that first one and then declaring independence? That sort of 488 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: just you know, for the people kind of hanging out, 489 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: hanging on the side saying I don't know, brought them 490 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: over the edge. 491 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 2: Right, Well, you're exactly right about the first kindent of 492 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,479 Speaker 2: Congress and John Adams complained they weren't going to do anything, 493 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 2: and so you have they get together in Philadelphia and 494 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 2: they say, all right, well look, let's let's talk about 495 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 2: what's happening here. And then of course they did adopt 496 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 2: became the Suffolk Resolves, which were, as I mentioned before, 497 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: a nullification process. We're going to nullify any unconstitutional life. 498 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: But they weren't willing to break at that point. And 499 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 2: I think that's because, I mean, as Patrick Henry point 500 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: pointed out, and has give me liberty to give me 501 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 2: death speech. I mean, this was this was something we 502 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 2: were more inclined to do. People are inclined to suffer. 503 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 2: Weoll evils are sufferable. I mean, so they were generally 504 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: willing to accept. American people were generally willing to accept 505 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: these unconstitutional invasions while they could tolerate them. Right. So 506 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 2: this this was something that I think in seventeen seventy 507 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 2: four they weren't so committed to independence. Yet certainly there 508 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 2: were people that were. I mean again, Patrick Henry Lardy 509 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 2: was he considered Virginia independent much much earlier than this, 510 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 2: I mean this early as seventeen sixty five, but in 511 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: Sam Adams. But I think for the most part you 512 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 2: had in the founding generation they were still willing to 513 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: put the brakes On, and I think the real change 514 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: came when the king rejected their pleas for an olive branch. 515 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 2: This was John Dickinson. He writes the olive branch petition, 516 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 2: and of course George the Third gets this. At the 517 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 2: same time he gets some male intercepted mail where John 518 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 2: Adams says, well, nobody really believes this thing anyways, and 519 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 2: so George was not willing at that point to accept 520 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 2: any type of compromise. And then, of course you get 521 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 2: seventeen seventy five and you get the invasion of Lexington 522 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 2: and Concord, and I think that's what really turned people around. 523 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: They said, okay, well, if they're going to actually march 524 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 2: in and try to seize our arms, which is what 525 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 2: they were doing, that was the point that there's no 526 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: turning back. And so you get that was almost a 527 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: year before the declaration, so by seventeen seventy six it 528 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 2: was a full break and you still even had people 529 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 2: in Dickinson wasn't going to support independence. Even in seventeen 530 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: seventy six, you're still have people that weren't on board 531 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 2: with it yet. But in realizing that, I think most 532 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: people realized when there was an armed conflict in Massachusetts, 533 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 2: and then of course you had other events before seventeen 534 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 2: before the declaration as well. This was it. We can't 535 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 2: turn back, we can't say oop, sorry, we're going to 536 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 2: We're just going to say we're going to stay in 537 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 2: the empire. There was no way that was going to 538 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: happen because the Parliament was going to do everything they 539 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: could to force the colonies to bend to their will, 540 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 2: and the king was not going to support them. And 541 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: so I think they believed by that point they really 542 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 2: had no choice by seventeen seventy six except independence. 543 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: So like for the folks like Dickerson that you just mentioned, 544 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: was it loyalty, was it fear? Sort of what was 545 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: holding them back from, you know, being completely on board 546 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: with a revolution. 547 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 2: Well, I think it was a mix of both. I 548 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 2: mean John Dickinson was a very wealthy man in Delaware, 549 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. He had he had a number of houses, 550 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 2: of course, all of which were burned except his plantation 551 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 2: in Delaware, and they were they were loyal to the crown. 552 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 2: I mean this is it'd be no different than any 553 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: of us sitting here today and saying my gosh, I 554 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 2: mean that would be a big decision for any of us, 555 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 2: do we want independence? We've been American citizens for all 556 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 2: these years, however old you are, and we've been you know, 557 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: pro the United States for all this time. And that's 558 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,479 Speaker 2: a big decision for people to make, and it's not 559 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 2: one to be taken lightly. And I think that was 560 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 2: the issue for many of them. They weren't certain if 561 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 2: they wanted that to take that step, And of course 562 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 2: there was some fear too. They knew that if they 563 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,719 Speaker 2: signed their name to that declaration or voted for it, 564 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 2: that could be construed as treason and so that you 565 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 2: could forfeit your life and your property in that case. 566 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 2: So this is a big decision to make, and it's 567 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 2: we take this now very light law. We have July fourth, 568 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: and everyone shoots off fireworks, we have hot dogs and 569 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 2: ball games. But when that decision was made in Philadelphia 570 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 2: on July second, in fact, and they sat there and 571 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 2: stunned silence. Do we really just do this? Did all 572 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: of these people just vote by state for independence? And 573 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: there was not a big cheer and this is going 574 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 2: to be a big party. This was, oh my gosh, 575 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 2: what did we just do? And it was a heavy 576 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 2: decision for all the reasons you mentioned, but I think 577 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 2: that they realized the gravity of the situation and what 578 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 2: was going to happen and what could potentially happen if 579 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: they lost that the pushbur independence. 580 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: Of course, it's really heady what they just did, right, 581 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean they're declaring war. I mean, they're 582 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: they're they're going to go to war. They're they're sending 583 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: their family members, their neighbors, the people they love to war. 584 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's a huge, huge thing. 585 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's not something to take lightly. And and you know, 586 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 2: when you look at the costs. When they when they 587 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: said in the declaration they pledge their lives, their fortunes, 588 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 2: and their sacred honor to this, they really meant it. 589 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 2: I think that's not something that we can we can 590 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 2: just flippantly disregard. So many men sacrificed everything for that. 591 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 2: And you know, I at often talked about the Minutemen. 592 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: You know, they're in Massachusetts at Lexington and Concord. Imagine 593 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: you're in your you're in your bed, it's middle of 594 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 2: the night, and you hear a rider coming down the 595 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 2: road and the regulars are coming out and you have 596 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 2: to get up, grab your grab your musket and head 597 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: out the door to go confront the regulars of the 598 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: British army, which is one of the best armies in 599 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: the world. I mean, maybe only the French were better. 600 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 2: It's it's it's questionable. At that point, they're both about 601 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 2: the same. So here you are a militiaman fighting against 602 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 2: a regular army, and that's something we don't really think about. 603 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 2: These men were not trained to be soldiers like the British. 604 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: And so when you think about the Battle of Bunker 605 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: Hill and and the the casualties that these militia inflicted 606 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 2: on the on the regulars there. But then you move 607 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: forward in time to the Battle of Long Island and 608 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,479 Speaker 2: how the British and the Hessians just annihilated the American forces, 609 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: and what Washington had to he was crying, he was 610 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 2: weeping as he's watching his men just get plowed over 611 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 2: by the British. And I mean, this is this is 612 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 2: really difficult, a really difficult time, and a really difficult 613 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 2: time for for a lot of people, and a hard 614 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 2: decision to make. And so I don't think we can 615 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 2: ever say enough about these men who were willing to, 616 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 2: you know, walk and knee deep snow at the at 617 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: the at the Battle of Trenton to cross the Delaware 618 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 2: River and all the things, all the deprivations and Valley 619 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 2: Forge and in the South where you know, you had 620 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 2: and Charleston patriots executed by the British just because they 621 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 2: supported the clause. And I mean, this is this is 622 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: really hard stuff. And so this was not something that 623 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 2: these people took lightly, and we should we should really 624 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: celebrate them for this if we really valued independence. 625 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: Do you think they would have won if France hadn't 626 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: gotten involved. 627 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 2: Probably not. The French breaking the blockade and and of 628 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: course sending in some reinforcements there in late in the 629 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: war was certainly beneficial. And you know, Yorktown would not 630 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: have happened without the French. So I don't think that 631 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 2: there's any way the United States can win without it. 632 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: And of course they you know, they knew that. I 633 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: think they knew that if they didn't get some type 634 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 2: of international support, this war was going to be over 635 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: and they were going to lose. And all of these 636 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 2: men who signed a declaration, We're going to go down 637 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 2: as traders, and we would be looking an entirely different situation, 638 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 2: and we wouldn't have the United States today. So the 639 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 2: French were valuable, and of course what did they get 640 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: out of it, just a whole bunch of debt and 641 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 2: in their own revolutions. So the byproduct for the French, 642 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 2: the after and after the French was not what I 643 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 2: think they wanted, But of course it's what we wanted 644 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 2: at the end of the day. 645 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: Well, and obviously, you know, we celebrate Independence Day, we 646 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: celebrate that Declaration of Independence. You know, what is the 647 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: significance of it from your perspective as a historian, Well, for. 648 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: Me, it's the last paragraph. Everyone focuses on the second 649 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 2: in the you know, the line, all mented, we hold 650 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: these streets of weself evident, all men are created equal. 651 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 2: But for me, it's the last paragraph, which declared that 652 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 2: these were free and independent states, because that sets the 653 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 2: basis for the entire structure of the American government from 654 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 2: that point forward. You think about the Articles of Confederation, 655 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: well you had they said it the states were independent. 656 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 2: Even when you get to the Constitution, the way it 657 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 2: was sold to the states was that we have a 658 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: federal republic, and these states still have powers, all the 659 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 2: powers not delegated to the center. And so we have 660 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: this reserved powers idea that comes out of the Declaration. 661 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: And you have to understand Jefferson and the Declaration called 662 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 2: Great Britain a state, and so it was the state 663 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 2: of Great Britain, and you had thirteen independent states, and 664 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 2: each state could do all the acts and things which 665 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 2: independent states may have right to. He said it. And 666 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,239 Speaker 2: so you had thirteen countries that were unified in their 667 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 2: opposition to British and we come together in a federal 668 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: union that was basically modeled after what they were living 669 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 2: under before. Right, the central authority could regulate commerce and defense, 670 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: international commerce and defense, and then with the constitution commerce 671 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 2: between the states, and that was it. I mean, everything 672 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 2: else is left to the states. All the things that 673 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 2: we talk about today that we wring our hands over 674 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: are really state issues at the end of the day. 675 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: And the problem is that we have people focus so 676 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 2: much on the center and we need one size fits 677 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 2: all government for everything. And that's again that's legislating for 678 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 2: us in all cases whatsoever. That's not what the founding 679 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: generation would have wanted. So for me, it's that principle 680 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 2: and that last paragraph that really matters moving forward in 681 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 2: American government. 682 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: Do you think that will happen naturally after COVID. I mean, 683 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: for instance, I left New York City because I wanted 684 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: to live freely as an American and move to Florida 685 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: for that very purpose. And we've I've seen a lot 686 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: of this migration. Red states are getting retter, like Florida's 687 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: officially a red state when you look at registered Republicans 688 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: in the state. Do you think that separation is sort 689 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: of underway in a way that it hasn't been recently. 690 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I think COVID did a lot to do that. 691 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: People are you know, I have people listeners all the 692 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 2: time on my show because this is the theme of 693 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 2: the show is think locally, act locally, right, instead of 694 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 2: think globally, act locally. You got to think locally in 695 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 2: act locally so you can change your life at the 696 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 2: local level. And it's it's something that people don't realize. 697 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 2: And you look at protests at the Supreme Court now 698 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 2: and if you whatever your position on those are, and 699 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 2: I know we're talking to conservatives, so it's people would 700 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 2: laugh at these protesters, But what kind of impact do 701 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 2: you think five ten people are going to have in 702 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court steps? But if they went to their 703 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: state capital, that would be larger impact. Or if they 704 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 2: went to their if they went to their city council, 705 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 2: it'd be a larger impact. And so when we start 706 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 2: talking about this idea of decentralization and how important Rhonda 707 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 2: Santis is for the future of Florida, I think I 708 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 2: hope he states governor of Florida, and I know that 709 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 2: people want to be president, but we need fifty Ronda Santances. 710 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 2: That's what we really need, and that would make it 711 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: to where Joe Biden would virtually be irrelevant if we 712 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 2: had states that actually stood up and said, you know what, 713 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 2: you only have these powers and we're not going to 714 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 2: let you have any others. The government really doesn't have 715 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: the central government to really doesn't have the ability to 716 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 2: enforce all the things that they do, and people recognize that. 717 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 2: In the nineteenth century, it's the idea of non commandeering. 718 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 2: They can pass all the legislation they want, but they 719 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: don't have the resources to enforce all this stuff. The 720 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 2: states are going to have to do it all. So 721 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 2: if the states say forget it, we're just not doing it, 722 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 2: it changes the whole ballgame. And so I think people 723 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 2: are waking up to this, you know, and with the 724 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: mass mandates and all these other things that happened during COVID, 725 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: and the governor's saying, we're just not We're going to 726 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 2: keep our state open. We're just not going to do 727 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 2: those things. You can have whatever you want in California. 728 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 2: You can have whatever you want in Massachusetts or New York. 729 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 2: But we're going to do what we want to do 730 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: in Florida or Alabama or Montana or wherever it was. We're 731 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 2: going to take things differently. And so again that spirit 732 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 2: of this resistance to unconstitutional government, I think is starting 733 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 2: to manifest itself a little better, and people are voting 734 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 2: with their feet, as you said, go into different states. 735 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 1: Quick break more on the founding generation on the other side, 736 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: fast forward to the Constitution so ratified in seventeen EDA, 737 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: in operation since seventeen eighty nine. So Democrats like to 738 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: say we have democracy, Republicans say we have a constitutional republic. 739 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: Why does that distinction matter? And sort of what do 740 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: you make of that debate that is always happening in 741 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: our country. 742 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 2: Well, I mean the term democracy is a loaded term. 743 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 2: What kind of democracy? Do we have a representative democracy? 744 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 2: Do we have a direct democracy. I mean, what do 745 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,720 Speaker 2: we really have. The founding generation was committed to democracy, 746 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 2: but it was always with a check, right. They didn't 747 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 2: really trust mass popular democracy because they didn't think that 748 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 2: people had enough information or were well educated enough to 749 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 2: make these decisions. Oftentimes, that's why you see in the 750 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 2: Constitution itself there's only one really democratic part of the Constitution, 751 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 2: and that is the House of Representatives. Otherwise, the Senate 752 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: was designed to be the state check on the entire system. 753 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 2: The States chose the senators, and of course through the 754 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 2: legislatures themselves, but the states did that originally. And then 755 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 2: of course the president is elected by the electoral college, 756 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 2: not direct vote. You've got the federal court system, which 757 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 2: is all appointed. So there's a whole lot of anti 758 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 2: democratic stuff in the Constitution because they just didn't really 759 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 2: believe that majoritarian rule was always the best thing. And 760 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 2: they even said it. After the Constitution was written and 761 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: it was going through ratification, there was a lot of 762 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 2: discussion about democracy and how this was going to be 763 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 2: a check on rampant democracy. They thought democracy was ruining 764 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 2: the states. They thought it was the bane of good government. 765 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 2: So these distinctions to make, you know, don't we don't 766 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 2: have a democracy, but I think the best term is 767 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 2: a federal republic with representative government, not direct democracy. And 768 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 2: there were others that were concerned about what majoritarian rule 769 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 2: could do. Right, if it's fifty people here, one hundred 770 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 2: people or one hundred and one people, and fifty one 771 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 2: people get to rule the other fifty, is that really 772 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,879 Speaker 2: good government or is that tyranny? I mean, because those 773 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 2: fifty people can be abused by fifty one people, and 774 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 2: that's I mean, we don't really think about these things nowadays, 775 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 2: but certainly they did. They understood that you could have 776 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 2: a bad government even with democracy, and so you had 777 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: to have some checks on that, which. 778 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: Is why we have things like the electoral college exactly. 779 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: Right, I mean it's the electoral college kept the states 780 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 2: in the system. It allowed for another layer from the 781 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 2: popular vote. We didn't count the popular vote until until 782 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 2: the eighteen twenties, right, I mean, no, we even knew 783 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 2: what it was. It didn't matter. It only mattered what 784 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 2: the electoral college voted. And that was certainly there to 785 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 2: ensure that there was some more educated person, so to speak, 786 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 2: making a decision about who is going to be president 787 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 2: in the United States. But if the presidency was actually 788 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 2: we here to that the way it was actually designed, 789 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 2: the president would almost be irrelevant here for foreign policy 790 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 2: to receive ambassadors, to make appointments, to make recommendations. But 791 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 2: Congress had all the power, and that's something that Congress 792 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,760 Speaker 2: wants to hide. Today. We have executive government because Congress 793 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 2: allows it to happen. So you need to be talking 794 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 2: about Congress and what Congress needs to do and take 795 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 2: their own power back from the executive. It's very difficult 796 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 2: to do, but it's something that I think needs to 797 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 2: be done in the future. Moving forward. 798 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: Now that makes a ton of sense. We're talking about 799 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: the founding generation, and we sort of touched on it 800 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: throughout the conversation, but just get into how far are 801 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: we today from what America was supposed to be. 802 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 2: I think almost one hundred and eighty degrees when you 803 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 2: look at seventeen eighty nine, when the US Congress meets 804 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 2: for the first time and we have the Constitution and 805 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,359 Speaker 2: the way that was sold to the states. I use 806 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 2: that term because it was a ratification process where they 807 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 2: actually had to sell this thing. We had this new constitution. 808 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 2: Not everyone was on board where we're going to do, 809 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 2: how is this thing going to work? And the opponents 810 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 2: of the document we're talking about, we're going to have 811 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 2: a government that was going to be oppressive, it was 812 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 2: going to abuse the states, it was going to do 813 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,479 Speaker 2: all kinds of illegal things what ultimately would be illegal things. 814 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 2: And those who supported the proponents of the document insisted, no, 815 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 2: well just look and you can only do these things 816 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 2: and then everything else is left to the state. So 817 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 2: if you just take that ratification process and then look 818 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 2: at where we are and everything is centralized, everything is Washington, DC, everything, 819 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 2: all the things the general government does that are completely unconstitutional, 820 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 2: I think they would be the opponents would feel like 821 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 2: they're vindicated, Well we told you so, and the proponents 822 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 2: would have, you know, egg on their face because this 823 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 2: is not the constitution that they sold during the ratification process, 824 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 2: but it's what we ultimately got. And so I think 825 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 2: that the so called anti federalists were prescient in what 826 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 2: was going to happen. And I mean, we are not 827 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 2: anywhere near what was sold to the states in seventeen 828 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 2: eighty seven and seventeen eighty eight. 829 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 1: Well, I think one thing that the Trump administration really 830 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: opened a lot. I mean, I guess we saw it 831 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: a little bit during the Obama administration with like the 832 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: IRS targeting conservatives and things of that nature, or just 833 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: like spying on the Senate Intel Committee and reporters and 834 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: the things like that. But we really saw it come 835 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: to a head during the Trump administration sort of this 836 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: administrative state, this deep state, these bureaucrats sort of subverting 837 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: the will of the American people. How do you scale 838 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: back government at this point? Is is it too late 839 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,240 Speaker 1: when you look at something. 840 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 2: Like that, Well, I mean, the set, I don't think 841 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 2: you can reform Washington DC, but again there's certainly cracks 842 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 2: and what it can do. And you can even look 843 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 2: at things the left does, for example, sanctuary cities, which 844 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 2: is something that you know, when we talk about immigration, 845 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 2: a lot of these sanctuary city laws written in the 846 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, and it was, you know what we're going 847 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 2: to do here. We're not going to enforce the federal 848 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,839 Speaker 2: government coming in and rounding up aliens. They can come 849 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 2: in all they want and do it, but we're just 850 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 2: not going to use state resources or local resources to 851 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 2: do it. And you know what happened. They didn't have 852 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 2: the resources that go do it, and so they just 853 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 2: the state just said we're just not going to do 854 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 2: these things. And I think that is the key moving forward. 855 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 2: We have to think about bottom up, not top down. 856 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 2: Washington is lost. It doesn't matter if we elect Ronda 857 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 2: Santis or Donald Trump or take your pick of Republican. 858 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if the Republicans control Congress because we 859 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 2: know that they don't overdo. I mean, look, they're impotent oftentimes, 860 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 2: and what they even they don't follow through on anything 861 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 2: they say they're going to do most of the time. 862 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 2: So reforming Washington DC is lost. But you can look 863 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 2: at Ronda Santis and everything. I mean, if you're in 864 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 2: Florida right now, which you say you're in Florida, he's 865 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 2: doing amazing things there and pushing back against the cancel 866 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 2: culture in the culture War and everything else. It's amazing 867 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 2: what ron De Santis is doing. And so that is 868 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 2: the key moving forward. I think if we want to 869 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 2: take things back in America, if we want to make 870 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 2: America great again, it has to come from the bottom up. 871 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 2: That's the only way it's going to happen. And the 872 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 2: states have all the authority and all the power to 873 00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 2: do it. It's just a matter if they're willing to 874 00:41:59,200 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 2: do it. 875 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 1: And your point about governmentor Desanta's, I mean, it's not 876 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: only our own government, like and people within it trying 877 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: to subvert the will of the American people. We also 878 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: now corporations that have come to the party who are 879 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: sort of aligning themselves with d C and enforcing their 880 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,280 Speaker 1: will on you know, Americans and enforcing like the government's 881 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 1: will on Americans. You know, how do you sort of 882 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 1: what's your take on that? Like we saw the recent 883 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: fight with Disney and things of that nature, big tech, 884 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 1: you know, all these different things. 885 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 2: Well, again, I think the states can regulate that kind 886 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,720 Speaker 2: of thing. You know, the Santas is going after Disney. 887 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 2: Well okay, if you want all these state kickbacks, well 888 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 2: then you're going to have to do you have to 889 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 2: toe the line. And corporations the idea of a corporate 890 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 2: person I mean that corporate personhood is the problem there. 891 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 2: But the other thing average Americans can do, of course, 892 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 2: if you don't like what Coca Cola or Disney or 893 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 2: you know, the NFL, or what, take your pick of 894 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 2: some corporation you don't like we was do, We'll just 895 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 2: stop buying their products. This is exactly what the founding generation, 896 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 2: they were going to boycott your stuff, and the left 897 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,320 Speaker 2: does this pretty effectively at times. Conservatives tend not to 898 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 2: follow through where they get kicked off for a little 899 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:01,919 Speaker 2: while and then they just keep going what they're doing. 900 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 2: But that economic bustle, I think is something that needs 901 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 2: to needs to be said and it needs to be done. 902 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 2: We saw it with with Disney here in this new movie, 903 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 2: the light Year movie. Apparently it bombed the box office 904 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 2: because people said, we're just not going to tolerate this, 905 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,320 Speaker 2: and we're not going to bring our kids to this. 906 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 2: It's not something we want to do. So there is 907 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 2: a pushback that can happen with finances if you really 908 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,760 Speaker 2: want to. And then of course also the state's getting 909 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 2: involved in saying if you want to incorporate in our state, 910 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 2: then you're not going to do X, Y and Z, 911 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 2: and I think that's also a key to reigning in 912 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 2: some of these corporations as well. 913 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: You know, obviously there's a conversation happening in the country 914 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: right now about the Second Amendment. What's the role of 915 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment? Our amendment in our lives. A lot 916 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: of dispute about what the meaning of the Second Amendment 917 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: was with the purpose was from a historical perspective, what 918 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: was the purpose of the Second Amendment and does that 919 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:53,760 Speaker 1: still hold true today? 920 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 2: Well, of course, the purpose of the Second Amendment was 921 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 2: to ensure that the United States had a militiam right, 922 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 2: I mean. And so when you think about the Constitution, 923 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 2: it says very clearly in the Constitution without the Second Amendment, 924 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 2: that the central government can arm the militia. Well, of course, 925 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 2: the theory was that they could arm the militia, then 926 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 2: they could disarm the militia, and the militia was every 927 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,360 Speaker 2: able body citizen between eighteen and forty five, and so 928 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 2: when there was a discussion of a Bill of rights, 929 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 2: it was okay, well, look, if they we need to 930 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 2: ensure that they can't disarm us and make us impotent, 931 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 2: and so that the state can come in or the 932 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 2: central authority can come in and simply run rough shot 933 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 2: over us. So the states controlled the militia, and of 934 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 2: course the states controlled the essentially the arming of citizens. 935 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 2: And so now it's interesting about that when when the 936 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 2: First Congress met, they actually passed the Militia Law that 937 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,759 Speaker 2: established the fact that every male had to be armed. 938 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 2: They had to have a certain had to have a firearm, 939 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 2: they had a certain amount of powder, a certain amount 940 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,920 Speaker 2: of ammunition. So they could arm the militia, but they 941 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 2: could not disarm them. And so the Second Amendment is 942 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 2: vital to our understanding of what an armed civilian population 943 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 2: is therefore, which is to prevent centralized tyranny. And I 944 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 2: think there's there's no other way around it. Certainly states 945 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 2: can do more than the central government can. But I've 946 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,360 Speaker 2: always maintained any gun control legislation from the central authority 947 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,239 Speaker 2: is illegal the states. There's a lot more wiggle room there, 948 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 2: depending on the state constitutions. But certainly this is something 949 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,839 Speaker 2: that the left is politicized again looking at things from 950 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 2: present status instead of thinking about it the way that 951 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,720 Speaker 2: it's just a natural right to self defense. 952 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,959 Speaker 1: Well, and I mean the Battle of Lexigon Concord, didn't 953 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 1: I mean they were coming for guns exactly right. 954 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 2: I mean that's they were. They were trying to disarm 955 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 2: the militia, and that was that was what was happening 956 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 2: in seventeen seventy five. So they were they had a 957 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 2: central armory there, and but that was the ide me 958 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 2: you have those in the United States. Now you have 959 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 2: National Guard armory. So imagine the US government coming in 960 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,160 Speaker 2: and saying, we're going to take this away from you. 961 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,760 Speaker 2: And of course the National Guard is a whole other monster, 962 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 2: and what that means is changing the nature of the 963 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,320 Speaker 2: militia there. But this is what was happening in seventeen 964 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 2: seventy five. So the idea is, we're going to disarm 965 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 2: you and we're going to take away your firearms so 966 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,320 Speaker 2: you cannot resist any of our unconstitutional laws. And I 967 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 2: think at the end of the day, that's something we 968 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 2: have to recognize and realize was one of the main 969 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 2: parts of this American warfare independence. 970 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: And I think what's really important about this conversation with 971 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: you is I think, you know, look, I was a 972 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: little bit naive before COVID to be I mean, I 973 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,160 Speaker 1: always saw that the government was a bad actor. You know, 974 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 1: We've seen numerous examples, and the governments pretty much always 975 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 1: lie to us our entire lives. But I think for 976 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: whatever reason, I still was naive to the fact that 977 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: tyranny could get reborn here in America, right like we 978 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,719 Speaker 1: were somewhat immune to tyranny, despite you know, Reagan and 979 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: beautiful quotes that he's made about freedom being one generation 980 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,760 Speaker 1: away from extinction, and COVID just really opened my eyes, 981 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 1: and I think it opened a lot of people's eyes 982 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,160 Speaker 1: to the fact that like, tyranny is here, the threat 983 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:52,800 Speaker 1: is real, and you know, we have to fight for 984 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: liberty in America. 985 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think if you look at when this 986 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 2: process really began was in the middle of the twentieth 987 00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 2: century and basically the Truman administration, we created this deep 988 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,279 Speaker 2: state that we have, and at the end of World 989 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 2: War Two, we didn't demobilize. We just kept all the 990 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,320 Speaker 2: programs in place from the New Deal and then also 991 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,319 Speaker 2: everything that was used to fight the war, and we've 992 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,439 Speaker 2: just kept that in place. And all that deep state 993 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 2: apparatus and creation of the politicized CIA and a militarized 994 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,839 Speaker 2: CIA and the FBI and everything that happens there, all 995 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 2: of that is a byproduct of extreme centralization during World 996 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 2: War Two and it's always been there. It's just that 997 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,800 Speaker 2: people haven't really recognized that they've lived their lives and 998 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 2: they just think the FBI just hurts everybody else, or 999 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,319 Speaker 2: the CIA hurts everybody else, or the central government hurts 1000 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 2: everybody else, but not me. But now with COVID, they 1001 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 2: saw well. I mean, if they can do these things 1002 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,440 Speaker 2: of these people, they can do it to us too. 1003 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,359 Speaker 2: And so I think that's really where this deep state 1004 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 2: apparatus was in place, and it was there just to use, 1005 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 2: and we saw it during twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. 1006 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,800 Speaker 1: Man, I could honestly talk to you for hours. This 1007 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,800 Speaker 1: is one of the more fascinating conversations I've had. But 1008 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,320 Speaker 1: you know, in the interest of time, is there anything 1009 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,320 Speaker 1: else you'd like to leave us with before we go? 1010 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,800 Speaker 2: Well, again, I think it's important to understand that the 1011 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,799 Speaker 2: Founding Generation was committed to independence, committed to decentralization, they 1012 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,279 Speaker 2: were committed to local government, and they were committed to 1013 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,799 Speaker 2: running their own lives. And if we can do any 1014 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 2: if we can live anyway like the Founding Generation, it 1015 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 2: would be that think locally, act locally. Idea, make sure 1016 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,840 Speaker 2: you're going to your city council meetings, make sure you're 1017 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,640 Speaker 2: paying attention to your state legislatures. Make sure you're paying 1018 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 2: attention to your governors. That's more important than anything else. 1019 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,840 Speaker 2: Vote in those local elections, get people in those local elections, 1020 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 2: and in your we've seen you Texas GOP their platforms. 1021 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,399 Speaker 2: It's now national news because they're thinking about decentralization. They're 1022 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 2: thinking about what can the local do to ensure that 1023 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:49,840 Speaker 2: we have the liberties and freedoms we want in the 1024 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,880 Speaker 2: state of Texas. So this is important. It's you just 1025 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 2: don't focus on Donald Trump or Joe Biden or whoever's 1026 00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 2: in Congress. Think about these people at the state and 1027 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,880 Speaker 2: local level and get people on an office there. You 1028 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,080 Speaker 2: do it yourself that want to are committed and want 1029 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,480 Speaker 2: to pursue these ideas of independence and decentralization. That at 1030 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 2: the end of the day is what we can type 1031 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:11,280 Speaker 2: away from the founding generation. 1032 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:12,799 Speaker 1: Where can people find your work? 1033 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,440 Speaker 2: You can go to brianmclanna hand dot com as brionmplaning 1034 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,960 Speaker 2: hand dot com and you can find everything that I 1035 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,279 Speaker 2: do there, my podcast, my academy, all the stuff that 1036 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,440 Speaker 2: I do. So it's I appreciate any of your listeners 1037 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:24,400 Speaker 2: going out there and checking me out. 1038 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:25,920 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. I appreciate your time. This has been 1039 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,400 Speaker 1: fascinating and I think a really important conversation. So I 1040 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. 1041 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,360 Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. 1042 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: So that was loss up. I hope you guys at 1043 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: home listen to that about the importance of independence, the 1044 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,399 Speaker 1: importance of liberty, what our founding generation believed, and why 1045 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,400 Speaker 1: we should still care about those principles today as we 1046 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,279 Speaker 1: celebrate Independence Day, as we go out and spend time 1047 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: with friends and family. Liberty is the most important and 1048 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,560 Speaker 1: if we lose it, we lose our country. So I 1049 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,399 Speaker 1: really appreciated his time. I thought he was an amazing guest. 1050 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: Definitely we'll have him back on the show for sure. 1051 00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,680 Speaker 1: You guys should go check out his work. And thank 1052 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,320 Speaker 1: you all for listening at home. I really appreciate you 1053 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 1: tuning in every Monday and Thursday to the show. Also, 1054 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,640 Speaker 1: we want to make my teammate, my producer, John Cassio, 1055 00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,719 Speaker 1: for working so hard to bring this show to you 1056 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: and for us. So thanks so much for listening. Guys. 1057 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,640 Speaker 1: Happy fourth of July, Happy Independence Day.