Speaker 1: I always had a gift of gab. We all know that.
Speaker 1: Listen to listen to Alan Grubman for the next hour,
Speaker 1: you're gonna know what the gift of gab is really
Speaker 1: all about. Hello, everyone, you're in for a treat today.
Speaker 1: This is Martha Stewart. And if you're in the entertainment business,
Speaker 1: there is one lawyer that you want on your side,
Speaker 1: and his name is Alan Grubman. Allen is considered the
Speaker 1: most influential attorney in the industry and has the well
Speaker 1: known clientele to prove it, from Bruce Springsteen, Robert De Niro, Elton,
Speaker 1: John Lady Gaga to Little nos X and so many others,
Speaker 1: even me. Martha Stewart. Allen's international legal powerhouse has represented
Speaker 1: all of us. Alan is a co founder of the
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as well as a
Speaker 1: recent inductee. I was so proud when you odd inducted
Speaker 1: into the Rocket Thank You of Fame. Alan Krugman now
Speaker 1: joining me to talk about his successful career and the
Speaker 1: entertainment business is the legendary. And I don't even like
Speaker 1: to call you legendary because you're not dead yet. Tregeons
Speaker 1: are dead, right and you are You are not a
Speaker 1: legend yet, but you are very active and very busy
Speaker 1: and very funny. And Alan has always been the same
Speaker 1: and I've known him and worked with him since nineteen seven.
Speaker 1: Welcome to my podcast. Thank you very very much. And
Speaker 1: so I've gone through several lawyers in your firm, Alan Krugman.
Speaker 1: We started with Alan Krugman um in what I think
Speaker 1: it was you We we had just made a deal
Speaker 1: with UM with Kamo. We made a consulting deal with
Speaker 1: Kmon in ight seven and that was when we first met,
Speaker 1: and I think that was the first thing we were
Speaker 1: And that consulting deal allowed me and my company to
Speaker 1: buy back my rights to Martha Stewart Living Magazine from
Speaker 1: Time Inc. Nineteen nineties five I believe was we brought
Speaker 1: it back. I think that I did. I say, excuse me,
Speaker 1: that's right. And in eight seven you made the consultant.
Speaker 1: The first time the magazine was published through Time Inc.
Speaker 1: Was in ninete. That was the first times, right, And
Speaker 1: then a few years later we were in a position
Speaker 1: which to my dying day, I'll never understand that they
Speaker 1: were prepared to sell you back everything. And we know
Speaker 1: what happened after that, and for not very much money
Speaker 1: either dollars. Remember they signed a little piece of paper
Speaker 1: and they let me, they let me, uh, And I
Speaker 1: kept that little piece of paper and I brought it back. Well, Um,
Speaker 1: those those early days were so exciting for me and uh,
Speaker 1: and you were just I think I was the first
Speaker 1: non performer client you ever had. Okay, let me say
Speaker 1: something to you that I let me just tell you
Speaker 1: something I've never directly told you. You were my lucky charm. Really, yes,
Speaker 1: you were the first non music client I had seven
Speaker 1: and going forward, inspired by the representation of you, the
Speaker 1: firm started going into all these different areas movies, television, journalism, athletics.
Speaker 1: That was manufacturing fact factor and that was all inspired
Speaker 1: by our representation of you. And I've never said this
Speaker 1: to you, and I'm saying it publicly that I have
Speaker 1: an enormous debt to you. I don't I assume at
Speaker 1: some point I would have got through life, but meeting
Speaker 1: you was a major step forward. Well that's very nice
Speaker 1: to know and uh and very nice to hear. Um.
Speaker 1: But we had, Joe. What I want to I want
Speaker 1: to get back into your beginnings because here you are.
Speaker 1: You were born in Brooklyn, correct you went to Brooklyn College,
Speaker 1: City College and Brooklyn Law School. Okay, and uh, and
Speaker 1: what made you What did you do first? What? What
Speaker 1: did you what kind of law did your practice when
Speaker 1: you first got out. I'll tell you this is uh,
Speaker 1: this is interesting and it's fairly well known. At the
Speaker 1: age of eleven, I had a stage mother, and at
Speaker 1: the age of eleven, she decided that a son should
Speaker 1: be a singer. So she ends up. There was a
Speaker 1: television show in New York in those days called The
Speaker 1: Horn and aut Art Children's Hour, which was on every
Speaker 1: Sunday on NBC at ten thirty in the morning. So
Speaker 1: she sent a letter and somehow I got into audition.
Speaker 1: I had a a really good singing voice, really yes,
Speaker 1: So I was accepted and from eleventh to thirteen I
Speaker 1: was on that show every Sunday, and I was part
Speaker 1: of a quartet. At the age of thirteen, my voice changed.
Speaker 1: That was the end of my career. But growing up
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, it it gave me a taste of the
Speaker 1: entertainment business. What do I mean the They would pick
Speaker 1: us up or pick me up at on Saturday for
Speaker 1: rehearsal in a limousine and they would take me into
Speaker 1: the city thirty Rock right famous in your neighborhood. Wow,
Speaker 1: But let me tell you the interesting thing. So they
Speaker 1: take you in a limousine and you'd rehearse and then
Speaker 1: they take you home. The only time in Brooklyn, if
Speaker 1: you a middle class family, the only time you ever
Speaker 1: was in a limousine the funeral, when you were right
Speaker 1: behind the funeral procession. So all of a sudden, I'm
Speaker 1: driving in this limousine and something else happened when you.
Speaker 1: When I grew up, there were two restaurants that I
Speaker 1: went to. You went to a kosher Delhi and you
Speaker 1: went for Chinese food on Sunday at five o'clock. That
Speaker 1: was the extent of it. They used to take us
Speaker 1: out for lunches and dinners during rears to these very
Speaker 1: very good restaurants. So by the age of thirteen, when
Speaker 1: my brilliant career was over, I said, you know something,
Speaker 1: this is good. You go to good restaurants, you drive
Speaker 1: in fancy cause and that stayed in my mind. What
Speaker 1: ends up happening. I go to City College, then I
Speaker 1: go to Brooklyn Law School, and in Brooklyn Law School,
Speaker 1: I said, I want to be an entertainment lawyer. So
Speaker 1: instead of working for lawyers part time after school. My
Speaker 1: first year I was in the mail room at William Mars.
Speaker 1: Oh great, I didn't know that from four to eight
Speaker 1: at night. And the second or third year, I was
Speaker 1: a page at CBS and Geffen was a page at CBS.
Speaker 1: A zillion of my friends now who was successful, So
Speaker 1: I'm a paid So they had me wear a gray
Speaker 1: sports jacket with a CBS. So I would walk into
Speaker 1: class every day with this gray sport jacket and the
Speaker 1: CBS I and they'd say, it's crazy, what's he doing.
Speaker 1: He takes people to their seats, which is what a
Speaker 1: page does. Everybody thought that I was like a little
Speaker 1: out of my mind, but I wanted to get some
Speaker 1: exposure to the entertainment business. And then afterwards I graduated,
Speaker 1: and then my career started to blah blah blah and
Speaker 1: where did you practice law? First first job I ever
Speaker 1: had was whe a man by the name of Walter Hoefer,
Speaker 1: who was a music lawyer. I always wanted to be
Speaker 1: a movie lawyer or a television lawyer. The last thing
Speaker 1: I wanted to be was a music lawyer. He's the
Speaker 1: only one who gave me a job. I started working
Speaker 1: for him in nineteen seventy and um, that's how I
Speaker 1: became a music lawyer at the very beginning. Well, and
Speaker 1: look at the look at your clientele now so many amazing, famous, famous,
Speaker 1: famous musicians. It's amazing. You know something I pinched myself
Speaker 1: because in my speech at the at the Hall of Fame,
Speaker 1: I said, I wasn't supposed to do this. I was
Speaker 1: I went to Brooklyn Law School. I was supposed to
Speaker 1: be a negligence lawyer, and I said, I hate accidents.
Speaker 1: What how would I be a successful negligence lawyer? But
Speaker 1: by sheer luck, I was able to get my first
Speaker 1: job in my first love. And that's what happened. So
Speaker 1: after you worked for it, for your first your first boss,
Speaker 1: how did you start your law Okay, I started working
Speaker 1: for him and I started in nineteen sixty nine and
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four. I had a knack for it. You know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you sense that you're good at something. This was
Speaker 1: the first time in my life I ever was good
Speaker 1: at anything. I wasn't a great athlete. I was a
Speaker 1: terrible student. I always had a gift of gab. But
Speaker 1: that but that's all. Listen to Alan Grubin for the
Speaker 1: next hour, You're gonna know what the gift of gab
Speaker 1: is really all about. So I started working, and after
Speaker 1: four years, I realized that I wanted to go out
Speaker 1: of my own. So I left the firm with four clients,
Speaker 1: two Frenchmen who ended up creating The Village People, a
Speaker 1: Miami little record company that created Casey in the Sunshine Band,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Then there were two other disco artists.
Speaker 1: In the seventies. Disco was was the big deal. So UM,
Speaker 1: I go out on my own and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: disco explodes and I started repriet and now I'm in
Speaker 1: my own practice and all these Where was your first
Speaker 1: office physically East fifty fifth Street, right next to where
Speaker 1: the Fryer's Club is now. They toured down the building.
Speaker 1: It was one of these six story buildings and UM,
Speaker 1: and that's how I first thought. It was seven hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty dollars a month rent and god knows how
Speaker 1: small it was. UM. And then I started building, building building,
Speaker 1: and in in nineteen eight disco died. I don't know
Speaker 1: if everybody remembers. It came to an end um and
Speaker 1: and I said, oh, that's it. I'm done. And then
Speaker 1: in Bruce Springsteen, I meet him, I meet Madonna. There
Speaker 1: was some really important mainstream artists that I started representing,
Speaker 1: Elton John, and then from there it really took off.
Speaker 1: So who does your firm currently represential? Oh, it's like
Speaker 1: back to who's who? Um, whether it's Bob Iger was
Speaker 1: Bob just went back to work agains and you know,
Speaker 1: I was very happy to see that he is requiring
Speaker 1: or wanting to require five days ye work week. You
Speaker 1: know he's very are you very happy to be back?
Speaker 1: I have a list here, um that here, here's here
Speaker 1: are some of the clients. Bruce Springsteen, Elton John, Lady Gaga,
Speaker 1: Little Not eventually love Little naz X. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I love him, Madonna, Nicki, Minaj, Mariah Carry, Robert de Niro,
Speaker 1: Lebron James Gayle King, Barbara Walters, past past Now, Diane Sawyer,
Speaker 1: Bette Midler. Um, we have Usher, we have David Foster,
Speaker 1: Shania Twain, the Estates, David Bowie, Paul Simon, you too, Tony.
Speaker 1: These are just some of many, many many. I heart Media,
Speaker 1: my heart media. We are talking on I heart media
Speaker 1: right now. This is my podcast. That's it. And so
Speaker 1: we represent I Heart Media, we represent Live Nation, which
Speaker 1: is the company that does all the promotions, and Spotify, Spotify,
Speaker 1: Warner Music Group, Universal Music Group, Sony Irving. Okay, but
Speaker 1: that's so. And you have how many lawyers now in
Speaker 1: the fifty fifty yers all working night and day to
Speaker 1: keep all of us in business with good contracts, doing
Speaker 1: the best that they can do and you can do.
Speaker 1: But you know, when did you take your first partner?
Speaker 1: Who was your first partner? Author? Yes, I remember Arthur
Speaker 1: Author was my first partner. Um in ninety A couple
Speaker 1: of years after I started to practice, I started to
Speaker 1: bring people in and name people partners. The structure was
Speaker 1: a little different than a formal partnership, but he was
Speaker 1: the first one, and then a few years later it
Speaker 1: was Paul Schindler. And then now there are fifty lawyers
Speaker 1: in the firm, as you know. And the lawyer that
Speaker 1: I worked with most closely, well they're too Larry Shire
Speaker 1: correct was devoted to you, who is now a senior
Speaker 1: partner and his name is in the name of the
Speaker 1: firm as scruman Shire uh sas and also Peter Grant.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to mention both of those because they
Speaker 1: work really really hard for us and they are fantastic
Speaker 1: representatives of the Grubman Law firm. They are amazing. So
Speaker 1: stepping out on your own, you started to accumulate a
Speaker 1: roster of clients that second to none in the entertainment business.
Speaker 1: Your friends, who do you who do you consider your
Speaker 1: circle of friends? Which you just When I walked into
Speaker 1: this morning to um to interview Alan, he was on
Speaker 1: the phone with Skip Ronson, Skip Ronson who you introduced
Speaker 1: me to? That's right, I introduced him to six Skip Ronson,
Speaker 1: who was at the time in Las Vegas working for
Speaker 1: Steve Win. And then you were also you said you
Speaker 1: had dinner yesterday or lunch yesterday at at Tip Yani
Speaker 1: with Irwin Winkler, who's another old time friend and client
Speaker 1: of yours. And so the whole time that I've known
Speaker 1: Alan Grubman, he still has all his old friends, which
Speaker 1: is is really an amazing feats. Yes, I live in
Speaker 1: a very exclusive area of the Hampton's called lily Pan Lane,
Speaker 1: and you know who convinced me to buy the house.
Speaker 1: I couldn't stand it. He was renting and I said, Alan,
Speaker 1: you have to buy a house. You have to and
Speaker 1: he bought a really nice house and improved it tremendously
Speaker 1: across the street. And I'm sorry I sold my house.
Speaker 1: I'm not really sorry, but I'm sorry. I miss you.
Speaker 1: I miss you, and I missed and I missed a breakfast,
Speaker 1: and I miss your wife and uh and I really
Speaker 1: I really wish sometimes that I was still out there.
Speaker 1: But I'll be out I'll be visiting. Um but the
Speaker 1: Hampton's and and when you if I just describe to
Speaker 1: digress a little bit, Alan's Sunday's are amazing in the
Speaker 1: Hampton's because there's a lunch. You don't know who's gonna
Speaker 1: be John bon Jovis at lunch, and then there's tell
Speaker 1: them something, just say it comes to your house. Nowadays
Speaker 1: it's David Zaslav who's the chairman of Waters and David
Speaker 1: Dean has a house on the street bon Jovi. Um,
Speaker 1: it's just like and then remember those days, More Zuckerman
Speaker 1: was there all the time, Um, who you It was
Speaker 1: a who's who on Sunday for lunch. And Debbie used
Speaker 1: to get calls how do I get invited? And Debbie,
Speaker 1: who is a very famous relator, a real estate agent
Speaker 1: here in New York city. Is this beautiful buxom blonde,
Speaker 1: very very fit and very beautiful with long blonde hair.
Speaker 1: And she somehow keeps Alan Grudman in shape and intact.
Speaker 1: She's She's amazing. So tell me a little bit about
Speaker 1: your family. You have how many kids? So I have, uh,
Speaker 1: two daughters, Lizzie and Jenny who Lizzie has two children
Speaker 1: sixteen and thirteen, and Jenny has twins sixteen. Debbie has
Speaker 1: a son, Um who has a daughter, and then she
Speaker 1: has a daughter who has two children. So you and
Speaker 1: you keep track of all those birthdays. They make sure
Speaker 1: because they all have arthritis. Described this to the audience.
Speaker 1: The hands are always like this. Oh there, Oh, the
Speaker 1: palms are up. Palms are always up waiting to be filled.
Speaker 1: That's their form of arthritis. You know why, because you're
Speaker 1: a very generous man. That's why Gruman and you've always
Speaker 1: been a generous man. And that makes a big difference
Speaker 1: to kids. They know that they can count on you,
Speaker 1: right as this as his clients can count on him.
Speaker 1: So what is the biggest mistake people make or some
Speaker 1: of the mistakes people make when signing contracts? They have
Speaker 1: the wrong lawyers and very often when people sign contracts.
Speaker 1: They only look at one line, how much money they're getting.
Speaker 1: They don't look at everything else that's so important, like
Speaker 1: what what's required of what restrictions, what they can do,
Speaker 1: what they can't do, what the companies on the other
Speaker 1: side I could do. It isn't just there's an old
Speaker 1: grubmen expression, it's not about the money. It's about the money.
Speaker 1: But that is only to a certain I quote you
Speaker 1: many times about that. But there are a lot of
Speaker 1: other things that are important. So the law firm is growing.
Speaker 1: It is accumulating clients at a at a very very
Speaker 1: fast rate. Correct um. Who would you say has been
Speaker 1: the most exciting client to deal with? It depends on
Speaker 1: what period of time. Right now, an important client to
Speaker 1: the firm is warners one of media, David Zaza because
Speaker 1: of all that's happening, well, he has been accumulating properties
Speaker 1: like crazy David Zaslov was was became very famous as
Speaker 1: the head of Discovery Channel and then he bought one
Speaker 1: of Media Warner Me do that a year and a half,
Speaker 1: which includes what HBO it's HBO CN and one of
Speaker 1: one of the movies, one of movie Group, um T
Speaker 1: n T it's an enormous company. It is and UH
Speaker 1: and the Food Network and emerged that with Discovery and
Speaker 1: it's now an enormous media company and he's now in
Speaker 1: the process of integrating it and growing it. Yeah. Really
Speaker 1: he's a wonderful guy. Yeah. Oh, I love him. I
Speaker 1: love him. He's so much fun too. And tell a
Speaker 1: funny story about Barbara streisand Is. So we're we have
Speaker 1: a dinner out in California, which Debbie does, and streisand
Speaker 1: is there and David sass up right after he got
Speaker 1: the job. So Barbara comes in. David was already there
Speaker 1: talking to a few people. Barbara comes in. I go
Speaker 1: over to Barbara, Barbara, you see the guy with the vest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he is now the new head of One of Pictures,
Speaker 1: because that's what he would, she would one of Pictures. Yes,
Speaker 1: he is Bob Daily. He is Steve Ross. And I
Speaker 1: mentioned all the you can't so, I said, she hadn't
Speaker 1: met him before, she didn't know who he was. I mean,
Speaker 1: he had no idea. So I go over to disaster laugh.
Speaker 1: Take a look over there, he says, is that Bobs
Speaker 1: drives in? I said, I'm glad you visioned is Yes,
Speaker 1: I said, now what you're gonna do is he's gonna
Speaker 1: walk over to her, You're gonna sit down, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna chat with her. He says, okay. See For the
Speaker 1: next twenty minutes, they fall in love with each other
Speaker 1: because he was how do I say this? He was
Speaker 1: doing everything to ingratiate himself with her, and she was
Speaker 1: doing twice as much because she's picturing that should be
Speaker 1: able to do a movie for what it was hysterical.
Speaker 1: And then it's time to go into dinner. She comes
Speaker 1: over to me and says, Alan, he's such a charming guy.
Speaker 1: And it was very, very fine. So these two people
Speaker 1: met for the first time and they worked each other
Speaker 1: to the point that they wanted to accomplish. So I
Speaker 1: thought it was a cute story because he was just
Speaker 1: you know, Discovery is a network that does documentaries. They
Speaker 1: don't really deal with talent. They do with documentaries as
Speaker 1: you know the Food Network. Uh, they do documentaries on
Speaker 1: interesting subjects, and now all of a sudden, he's running
Speaker 1: this company where talent is the issue. But anyway, I
Speaker 1: thought it was a cute story. That's very very cute,
Speaker 1: and and so is she gonna make a movie with her? Well?
Speaker 1: She's hoping, Yeah, we'll see, We'll see. I mean, she
Speaker 1: can just write her own ticket, Barbara streisand I mean
Speaker 1: she has done. She's an amazing actress and an amazing performer.
Speaker 1: So and I don't and I don't think she's thinking
Speaker 1: of retiring anytime soon. She's she's you guys are the
Speaker 1: same age, so al And just turned eighty. I'm eighty one.
Speaker 1: Hard to believe right now, impossible to the right. We
Speaker 1: we don't. We are workers. And I was talking to
Speaker 1: Allen before we started to interview to the Unicorns that
Speaker 1: we are unicorns, but we are also the hardest workers around.
Speaker 1: We don't want to retire. When people say, oh, what
Speaker 1: do you what are you going to slow down? I
Speaker 1: couldn't think about slowing down. And Alan Gruman certainly hasn't
Speaker 1: slowed down at all. We'll have plenty of time to
Speaker 1: rest at the right moment. You are bicoastal now. Also,
Speaker 1: when did you decide that you would get a house
Speaker 1: in l A. It had nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1: It was Debbie, Debbie's whole family. I've always had a
Speaker 1: lot of clients in l A. And I would go
Speaker 1: there once a month for a week, or several days.
Speaker 1: So she says, Alan, it's time for us to buy
Speaker 1: a house. Uh, I'm tired of staying at hotels. But
Speaker 1: she really wanted to have as it. So then we
Speaker 1: started looking for houses and other interesting story we saw
Speaker 1: looking for a house and one house at beb but
Speaker 1: but one after the other we don't like. Then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Debbie gets a call from David Geffen.
Speaker 1: David Geffen is a very successful entrepreneur in the entertainment business.
Speaker 1: He's fairly well known so but he's a dear friend
Speaker 1: of mine. And the Philharmonic, the New York Philharmonic Hall
Speaker 1: is now the David Geffen Hall thanks to a massive
Speaker 1: gift from David Gef. I went to the opening where
Speaker 1: you were at the opening? Yeah, we saw each other.
Speaker 1: So um. He says to Debbie, get on a plane today.
Speaker 1: I want you to be out here. I want to
Speaker 1: show you something. So David said, get on a plane.
Speaker 1: Debbie gets on a plane. There was a very famous
Speaker 1: agent called Sioux Mangers, which probably very few people in
Speaker 1: your audience will remember, but she was like the most
Speaker 1: famous agent of her day, and she had just died,
Speaker 1: and she had this great house in Beverly Hills. So,
Speaker 1: to make a long story short, we bought the house
Speaker 1: and um and what ended up happening is that Debbie
Speaker 1: spent about a year and a half. It was a wreck,
Speaker 1: but the bones were great. It was a very famous architect.
Speaker 1: I want to see that house one of these days,
Speaker 1: have a coordinative visit. So the bottom line is, so
Speaker 1: now we have a house and we're out there a
Speaker 1: week a month. But she loves it and we love
Speaker 1: the house. And she's doing in l A what she
Speaker 1: does in New York, not working, but in terms of
Speaker 1: socializing and seeing her seeing her family and grant any time. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so great. So I just want to know. I
Speaker 1: want people to know what you do in a day.
Speaker 1: What time do you get up? Um? I get up
Speaker 1: at six o'clock and UM, I get out of bed,
Speaker 1: usually between six thirty and seven, and then I come downstairs,
Speaker 1: I have a cup of coffee and then I work
Speaker 1: out at seven. I actually we'll start working at at
Speaker 1: seven three days a week until eight. Then at eight
Speaker 1: third I go to breakfast, either with a friend, a client,
Speaker 1: or a lawyer in the office, and I usually get
Speaker 1: to the office. Where do you go for breakfast either
Speaker 1: e A t on Madison Avenue, Bonnie green Grass on
Speaker 1: the west side, and the third one is Santambros, which
Speaker 1: is on Mati Avenue. They get to the office about
Speaker 1: nine thirty and then the day begins, whether it's phone calls,
Speaker 1: whether it's meetings, dealing with the lawyers with their issues.
Speaker 1: And then I go to lunch at one again with
Speaker 1: either lawyers or an outside person. Favorite place for lunch. Um,
Speaker 1: it's tough these days. Milos. I like because it's fish
Speaker 1: trott A Rhea, which is Italian Brooklyn diner. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put in a plug has the greatest roklate cake. It's
Speaker 1: called Alan Grubman's Truck. Really, I'm going to go there
Speaker 1: one of these days with you. You're taking me for truy,
Speaker 1: I'm paying for it, Okay. Sometimes I go to Michael's,
Speaker 1: like yesterday I went with her, went to Cipriani. There's
Speaker 1: no one restaurant, and if I'm going with the lawyers,
Speaker 1: then it's totally different. We'll go for pizza, we'll go
Speaker 1: for some Chinese food and that's it. So then I
Speaker 1: kept back to the office like two to thirty, and
Speaker 1: I work another two hours doing whatever has to be done.
Speaker 1: And then at four thirty I go home. I take
Speaker 1: a massage. At five to six, and then seven thirty
Speaker 1: we either dinner with people at home. When we go
Speaker 1: out to a restaurant. I'm back by ten ten thirty
Speaker 1: and sleeping by ten thirty eleven. So you get a
Speaker 1: good night's sleep, you sleep well. Yes, I usually sleep
Speaker 1: from eleven till let's say six. Any any programs that
Speaker 1: you must watch on TV, Well, I get home at
Speaker 1: the point. You know, the problem is, I'm out either
Speaker 1: for dinner or we have dinner, and it always is
Speaker 1: over by ten ten fifteen. It's too late to watch
Speaker 1: any programs. So I watch news. So good. So I
Speaker 1: you have to be informed in your business, in every business, Yes, definitely,
Speaker 1: and and so and that's and on weekends, if I'm
Speaker 1: in California, it's spending time with our kids, and in
Speaker 1: the evening we socialize. If in New York, if I'm
Speaker 1: out in the half one during the summer, we go out,
Speaker 1: as you know, to the to the house Friday morning
Speaker 1: and come back Monday morning. During except in the middle
Speaker 1: of July, we go to europe Um. During the winter,
Speaker 1: we're out there maybe once or twice maximum. And when
Speaker 1: we stay in the city, we just relax. There's no
Speaker 1: specific skit. Good life, good friends. I saw you recently
Speaker 1: at a big table of people at the Polo Bar
Speaker 1: with Ralph Florence restaurant. Right, that's a fun place to go.
Speaker 1: I just worry about the fact that it's downstairs. Yes,
Speaker 1: we all worry about that's weird. But the food is great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's definitely. The atmosphere is great and we enjoy it. Okay. So, um,
Speaker 1: when when somebody comes to you looking for help, legal help,
Speaker 1: how do you approach a new client? First, I, if
Speaker 1: they come to me, I'll sit and talk to them
Speaker 1: and see if I have First if I can be
Speaker 1: productive for them? And number two, do I have an
Speaker 1: interest in being productive? And then when I see what
Speaker 1: their issues are and what area, whether it's a television,
Speaker 1: whether it's a book, deal where, whether it's a music,
Speaker 1: then um, I will go to the appropriate lawyer and
Speaker 1: have them meet with the person and then we try
Speaker 1: to help them very If we represent we represent a
Speaker 1: lot of TV journalists. Now. It started with the representation
Speaker 1: of Diane Sawyer and Barbara Walters, but now it's spread
Speaker 1: to Gail King, and a whole slew of journalists. That's
Speaker 1: an area I find interesting. Yeah, well, very interesting. Barbara
Speaker 1: Walters just passed away. She was a very close friend
Speaker 1: of you yours, and and Debbie's very very close And yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been on the phone with Bob Iger trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what to do, uh in terms of some
Speaker 1: sort of memorial and it's in discussion right now. Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll make sure I get invited, because you know how,
Speaker 1: you know how she was wonderful Fondie was of her
Speaker 1: and and her professionalism and uh and her goodwill towards
Speaker 1: so many good causes. She was an interesting woman. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you a funny story about how we were on
Speaker 1: Geffen's boat and it was Bob and I blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and and a few other people very important in the
Speaker 1: financial world that in the entertainment. So we're having dinner,
Speaker 1: and then after dinner, she comes over to me says,
Speaker 1: you know, Allen, this is the only place in the
Speaker 1: world I must see celebrity because the other people, whether
Speaker 1: it was financial or what they accomplished. So she she
Speaker 1: was used to being catered to. And Barbara Wallas is
Speaker 1: and now she said, I'm a C celebrity. I said,
Speaker 1: it could be worse. How could it be worse? You
Speaker 1: could be a D celebrity. But we had a big
Speaker 1: laugh about well, she's a She was a very forthright
Speaker 1: person and she and she uh shouldn't make fun of
Speaker 1: herself and that was that was. She was an amazing,
Speaker 1: amazing she was the greatest TV journal female. You're on
Speaker 1: a list of the tent, but she broke all the
Speaker 1: ice for everybody that followed. She really did. She was
Speaker 1: very The Golden Globes were last night. I missed it.
Speaker 1: Did you see it? I did not know I was.
Speaker 1: I was out at a at a corporate dinner, but
Speaker 1: but I read it all about it this morning, and
Speaker 1: I and uh, and it was. They said it was
Speaker 1: a little boring, but um, you know, they had a
Speaker 1: lot of repair workship to do after the last Golden Globes.
Speaker 1: But I thought that the awards went to the right
Speaker 1: peep bowl when I when when, I mean, I've seen
Speaker 1: most of the most of the programming that that one,
Speaker 1: and I thought I thought they chose chose well. Spielberg's
Speaker 1: movie one yes, The Fable Men, which I actually saw,
Speaker 1: and didn't you like it, Yeah, because it was like
Speaker 1: the story of his life. It was He's a victory
Speaker 1: for the nerds. You know, I've said to Debbie, I said,
Speaker 1: in high school, there were the nerdy, unpopular kids, and
Speaker 1: then there were the stars, the head of the football team,
Speaker 1: the most popular kid, the best looking blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: What ends up happening as adults the nerds become Mark Zuckerberg,
Speaker 1: the Google guys, um Elon must course, and what happens
Speaker 1: to the great baseball players and popular they become gym teachers.
Speaker 1: The nerds are running the world now they are in
Speaker 1: and the people in high school, high school, you got
Speaker 1: the well the Bill Gates is and extreme jobs and
Speaker 1: the Charles Simonies of the world exactly. But but it's
Speaker 1: uh everyone, everyone, Ultimately, it's about what you do all
Speaker 1: your life, not just about what you do in a
Speaker 1: little moment. To tell everybody the Charles Simony story. You're
Speaker 1: going to Joel Silver's wedding, Oh you tell us, I forgot,
Speaker 1: You're gonna remember all listen. Charles Simony was a former
Speaker 1: boyfriend of mine and we were invited to go to
Speaker 1: Joel Silver's wedding in Venice twenty years ago, the most
Speaker 1: beautiful wedding. It was a week long wedding, the best,
Speaker 1: the best destination wedding I ever went to me too.
Speaker 1: Of course he married another, that's right, okay, okay. So
Speaker 1: so you called Debbie and you say, listen, I'm going
Speaker 1: with Charles Simony and we're flying over. Would you like
Speaker 1: a lift? So Debbie said, of course. So on the
Speaker 1: way to the airport, we stopped at E A T.
Speaker 1: And Debbie gets to muffins, puts them in a bag.
Speaker 1: We get on the plane. At about forty minutes into
Speaker 1: the plane, I say to you, I'm hungry. Can we
Speaker 1: get something to eat? And you say something to Simony
Speaker 1: and he turns white. He brought no food for a
Speaker 1: nine hour trip. I don't know if you remember. I
Speaker 1: remember classic Charles is a nerd. He was. He was
Speaker 1: the man who wrote word and Excel for Microsoft, and
Speaker 1: and he did not believe in dirtying his plane with crumbs.
Speaker 1: So this is what happened. So then I said, I
Speaker 1: whispered a Debby. He still lapped the muffins. She said, yeah.
Speaker 1: I said, go into the bathroom and cut them in
Speaker 1: in eagle pieces and come back. So well, matha then
Speaker 1: takes charge. She decided how we were going to eat
Speaker 1: these two muffins for the next nine hours, and that's
Speaker 1: the only thing we had to eat. It was hysterically.
Speaker 1: There was always a couple of little pieces of chocolate,
Speaker 1: a special a special kind of chocolate that was that
Speaker 1: was the only thing allowed. And water. I have told
Speaker 1: that story. I can't. It's hysterical that you fly, I know,
Speaker 1: brand new Falcon fifty X. I mean it was fantastic,
Speaker 1: but no crumbs allowed. I got him to allow me
Speaker 1: to take my dogs on the plane. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a big accomplishment. And he didn't even like pets, No dogs,
Speaker 1: no cat. And that's a major even a bigger accompany
Speaker 1: much more. You're known to be a great negotiator. What
Speaker 1: makes a great negotiator knowing when to stop. A great
Speaker 1: negotiator is somebody that knows when, let's say I'm representing
Speaker 1: somebody that's selling something thing. First, you've got to know
Speaker 1: when you've reached the point that you're not going to
Speaker 1: get any more, and if you continue, you're going to
Speaker 1: develop resentment and a deal and you lose the deal.
Speaker 1: That's if you're representing the seller, if you're representing the buyer.
Speaker 1: You've got to know how much you can give and
Speaker 1: try to go to the most, but don't become too
Speaker 1: cheap to blow the deal. So being a great negotiators
Speaker 1: understanding when to say stop, and very few people know that.
Speaker 1: Most people go too far, you know, on either side.
Speaker 1: But do you find that out from so you're selling
Speaker 1: something for someone, do you really get those numbers out
Speaker 1: of the cellar before you go in? Instincts? It's all instinct,
Speaker 1: you know something I always said to people. You can
Speaker 1: study and learn the law, but the emotional intelligence which
Speaker 1: you're born with no wing. Who are you dealing with,
Speaker 1: how to get along with that person and knowing when
Speaker 1: it's time to close the deal. Are there people that
Speaker 1: you couldn't ever negotiate with? Yes, and most of them
Speaker 1: ended up failures because they couldn't negotiate with me. That
Speaker 1: means they would have problems with other people. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they don't succeed. The entertainment industry has changed so drastically
Speaker 1: over the years. Um discuss that a little bit. Well, now,
Speaker 1: let's take movies and television. There was a time when
Speaker 1: movies with a superior was the superior child, and television
Speaker 1: was the secondary child. As we all know, now television
Speaker 1: and the shows on television are much more important and
Speaker 1: much more relevant than movie theatrical movies. Is that because
Speaker 1: of the pandemic or is that just a trend? Anyway,
Speaker 1: I think it's a trend. But also the pandemic, which
Speaker 1: kept people at home was had a great impetus in
Speaker 1: But now the really I remember years ago an actor,
Speaker 1: a movie star would never think of doing anything in television.
Speaker 1: Now it's totally changed. The biggest movie stars are prepared
Speaker 1: to do television series, television movies, etcetera. So streaming has
Speaker 1: changed the world. Uh in Holly Hollywood used to be
Speaker 1: the important companies in Hollywood used to be paramount and
Speaker 1: Sony and Warner Brothers. Now the most important companies in
Speaker 1: Hollywood are the streaming companies Netflix, Amazon, of Roku Roku.
Speaker 1: So it's dramatically changed in movies and television. In terms
Speaker 1: of music, it's all about streaming. People don't buy records anymore,
Speaker 1: they just stream, so so the methods of distribution have
Speaker 1: dramatically changed. The creativity hasn't changed. If you create a
Speaker 1: great piece of product, it will be successful in TV
Speaker 1: and TV, who do you think are the best creative
Speaker 1: geniuses right now the same people that used to be creative.
Speaker 1: Did Wolf give you an example, Dick Wolf, even though
Speaker 1: he's still my neighbor. I had dinner the other night
Speaker 1: with Marishka Parktey who's on UH Law and Order. He
Speaker 1: has eight shows on the air. He's brilliant, so brilliant.
Speaker 1: Jerry Bruckheimer has now come become active again. Um there.
Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot of very, very creative producers.
Speaker 1: Naming directors doesn't make sense. Movie You know, the old
Speaker 1: line movie star has changed. You know, those traditional movie
Speaker 1: stars of yesterday don't exist. They are a different breed
Speaker 1: of people today. But they're always going to be movie
Speaker 1: stars of sorts. There are always going to be great directors.
Speaker 1: There's always going to be great producers, because it's all
Speaker 1: about content. The delivery of content will change, streaming change, Netflix,
Speaker 1: ham but the creation of the content always has to
Speaker 1: be the h If you look back at your career,
Speaker 1: what you think was your personal the biggest accomplishment, The
Speaker 1: biggest accomplishment is there one event. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1: I said to you at the beginning. One of the
Speaker 1: turning points of this practice was representing Martha Stewart. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you'd call it an accomplishment or you
Speaker 1: called it a moment in time which allowed me to
Speaker 1: move forward. That would be, you know, representing David Geffen
Speaker 1: uh in the David believed in me so in in
Speaker 1: nineteen um eighty he he lived in California and he said,
Speaker 1: Alan Grugman is going to do very well. And that
Speaker 1: opened up the doors to many many people. He was
Speaker 1: an instrumental part of my career. Um. There was a
Speaker 1: guy been named waltiet Nika flu ran Sony Records who
Speaker 1: ended up passing on. There were certain people that have
Speaker 1: been in my career that that had been extremely extremely important.
Speaker 1: I just named you know a couple. Yeah, and you've
Speaker 1: worked hard for many years. You continue to work hard.
Speaker 1: You as I said in the beginning, you look better
Speaker 1: now than you looked ten years ago. Thank you? And
Speaker 1: uh is that your wife? Or is that who is it? No?
Speaker 1: I it was. I woke up one day and I
Speaker 1: said I want to live to a long age. So
Speaker 1: I decided to get healthy. And of course Debbie motivated me,
Speaker 1: you know, and and when she saw people the only
Speaker 1: time people change is when they want to change you.
Speaker 1: I can't convince you to do anything you don't want
Speaker 1: to do. So once she saw that I was committed
Speaker 1: to change, then she encouraged me. So that was basically
Speaker 1: and I was changed, diet changed. But he has a
Speaker 1: nice head of hair, You're you're fit, You're dressed nicely.
Speaker 1: This is this is a man who knows who he
Speaker 1: is and uh and believes in himself and works really
Speaker 1: hard ward and has maintained his sense of humor. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's why you have so many friends
Speaker 1: alan Your sense of humor and your and your attention
Speaker 1: to detail is just infallible, you know, talking about a
Speaker 1: sense of humor. I went at a conversation with Debbie.
Speaker 1: I said, Debbie, tell me, if I'm right, women in
Speaker 1: their twenties are primarily attracted to men because of their looks.
Speaker 1: What happens after that? She says, when a woman gets
Speaker 1: into the thirties, she realizes that the character of a person,
Speaker 1: the quality of a person, and a great sense of
Speaker 1: humor is more attractive than looking like Brad Pitt. And
Speaker 1: I think that's was her opinion. I think there's probably
Speaker 1: some truth to it. Really really good looks, he does,
Speaker 1: and he's smart. He's very smart. I love bradfit Well.
Speaker 1: Alan has been so much fun talking to you, catching up,
Speaker 1: um and uh, I know you have so much more
Speaker 1: to do and I don't want to take you away
Speaker 1: from your clients or your lunch, maybe maybe your ultra lunch. Now,
Speaker 1: what's with the Danish? He brought the most beautiful day
Speaker 1: so everybody could enjoy it that I had breakfast at
Speaker 1: a So you did, okay, so I said. As I
Speaker 1: was leaving, I said, yes, I'm gonna bring some dance.
Speaker 1: I didn't know how many people are going to be here,
Speaker 1: so I decided to bring Danish so that everybody could. Well.
Speaker 1: If you're not in the know, e h is Etilize
Speaker 1: Bars Delicious eatery on Madison Avenue and eight Street, and
Speaker 1: it is one of the places to go to be
Speaker 1: seen and to eat breakfast, lunch or dinner. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. I can't wait to dig into the mother said,
Speaker 1: whenever you go to somebody's house, you always bring something
Speaker 1: that's right there. This is this is my house. It's
Speaker 1: away from home. Thank you for inviting me. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: you're a delight to talk to and I and I, uh,
Speaker 1: and please my best to Larry and to Peter because
Speaker 1: I talked to them much more than I talked to you.
Speaker 1: But I missed you. Thank you, and I really enjoyed you.
Speaker 1: Thank you.