Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, this is Lisa, and this is that's messed
Speaker 2: up and I did it in the wrong order.
Speaker 3: No big deal.
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kara. You guys know what we do on
Speaker 1: this pod. I hope we talk SVU. We talk about
Speaker 1: a true crime that the episode is based on, and
Speaker 1: we interview a fabulous guest. But first we catch up
Speaker 1: and I'm in La Lisa's in New York. We've been
Speaker 1: in the same city for a couple of weeks. I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear the latest.
Speaker 2: What's on the latest is the fires in Canada have
Speaker 2: come to breathe their orange smoke on to New York
Speaker 2: and the air is grim, the quality is bad, and
Speaker 2: we're all just waiting for the vander Pump reunion for tonight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the only man gonna clear the air.
Speaker 2: On the menu, we're gonna have goat cheeseballs, pump teenies,
Speaker 2: not about the pasta salad, and lobster corn dogs. Since
Speaker 2: we can't support shorts and Sandy's this is amazing, and I.
Speaker 3: Came up with a game.
Speaker 2: So you know, a few seasons ago, Shina was just like,
Speaker 2: Rob hung up my TV in seven minutes, and I
Speaker 2: timed him.
Speaker 3: So we're gonna play pin the TV on the wall. Yes,
Speaker 3: this is so good. Then I have an eight am.
Speaker 1: Flight to meet you for our show tomorrow in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so like jealous that you're three
Speaker 1: hours ahead. So you're actually gonna watch the reunion like
Speaker 1: you're gonna watch it like while I'm giving my kids dinner.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's gonna be on so early for you.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: The only thing I'm scared of is people better shut
Speaker 2: their fucking mouths until the commercial breaks, I know, and
Speaker 2: then tomorrow I'll watch it uncensored because you know, this
Speaker 2: will just be live television.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, the peacock versions.
Speaker 1: I haven't been watching those, but I've been seeing like
Speaker 1: some of the clips with the swears, and they are satisfying.
Speaker 2: It's so much better. I hate puritanical culture. Swears should
Speaker 2: be on television.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's noways apologize to me for swearing in
Speaker 1: front of my kids, and I go, I swear in
Speaker 1: front of my kids, Like I just am really trying
Speaker 1: to like take the power away from swear words with
Speaker 1: like my kids.
Speaker 3: I agree with you.
Speaker 2: I was at my friends kids party ones and like
Speaker 2: Katie Perry's a song came on where like bitch was
Speaker 2: or something, and one of the other parents tried to
Speaker 2: get on a high horse, and my friend was just like,
Speaker 2: they don't even know, they don't know if you don't
Speaker 2: make a big dear about it, yeah, like you're the
Speaker 2: one being nuts and you can leave.
Speaker 1: Actually, like you don't have to be here if that
Speaker 1: one word bothers you.
Speaker 2: I just feel like we swear as people, and then
Speaker 2: if you don't swear as a person, you don't have to.
Speaker 2: But like some of us swear naturally. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: It's just like I don't know, They're just words. It
Speaker 2: was such a big deal in my house to say
Speaker 2: shut up or to say like I mean, we would
Speaker 2: never say like fucker shit, but to say, like even
Speaker 2: call my brother a prick, I'd get in so much trouble,
Speaker 2: like just any bad words, And I was like, who,
Speaker 2: Like I mean, I'm gonn obviously try to teach my
Speaker 2: children kindness towards each other. But like the swearing thing
Speaker 2: is like it's too much, like we've just assigned these
Speaker 2: like words that are bad and it's crazy.
Speaker 1: It's like virginity. It doesn't exist. The limit does not exist.
Speaker 3: The limit does not exist.
Speaker 1: I am so obviously we're in the time machine, so
Speaker 1: we're a little bit late on some things. And obviously,
Speaker 1: by the time you listen to this episode scanned of
Speaker 1: all will be we'll all know what the big surprise is.
Speaker 1: And obviously, but you're getting us in real time right now,
Speaker 1: in our real time, we don't know what's going to
Speaker 1: happen tonight. And we got to talk about the season
Speaker 1: finale of Yellowjackets. First of all, what is with this
Speaker 1: show having nine episodes? I turned it on, I go, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: episode nine, so it's the penultimate episode, and then I
Speaker 1: forgot that last season nine as well.
Speaker 3: That's such a weird number.
Speaker 1: I feel like shows usually have eight or ten, or
Speaker 1: like six or ten and nine. You do something near
Speaker 1: your hair, Oh yeah, I got it done by your girl.
Speaker 3: It looks great, Thank you, thank you? Oh my god,
Speaker 3: do you love it? Yes? I love it.
Speaker 2: It took a me, yeah, sorry, it took me a
Speaker 2: few minutes, but it just hit me where I was like,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, yeah.
Speaker 1: She did like a great job. She she also like
Speaker 1: she was so she was really cool. She's obsessed with you.
Speaker 1: I was like, I had to like tell her like
Speaker 1: I don't know, she just like didn't realize what a
Speaker 1: big stand up you are.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, yeah, she doesn't.
Speaker 1: Brag about herself, so I usually do it, like when
Speaker 1: we like we met dtox and she's like, how do
Speaker 1: I know you? And I was like, bitch, she's huge
Speaker 1: on in stand up and she's on TikTok and Instagram.
Speaker 2: Well, I saw her friend Matteo Laine yesterday and I
Speaker 2: told him about drag Con and I was like, I
Speaker 2: spent fifty dollars to meet dtalks and he goes, I
Speaker 2: mean I could text her like what are you doing?
Speaker 3: And then I fibbed a little because I said yeah.
Speaker 2: She said I look famili and I went, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is humiliating for us. We waited in line for you, bitch. No,
Speaker 2: your hair looks incredible. Was the pug there? There's usually
Speaker 2: a pug named Darla. I didn't see a pug, but
Speaker 2: that sounds really cute. But it was a shatter. It
Speaker 2: was a long process.
Speaker 1: But she's also like such a boss, Like she's in
Speaker 1: the middle of just like talking about kids stuff and
Speaker 1: then she goes, don't do that, like and like, but
Speaker 1: I wanted to say to her assistance. I wanted to
Speaker 1: be like, I feel like she's really gonna teach you
Speaker 1: guys to be great hairstylists. Like she's really like she
Speaker 1: doesn't like just she doesn't mince words. She's just kind
Speaker 1: of like, no, see how you can't do that, like,
Speaker 1: don't touch this part. Like it's really like, but she
Speaker 1: I was a little bit of a mess, and I
Speaker 1: feel like she really fucking took me to church with
Speaker 1: this haircut.
Speaker 2: She changed my life because now with my new allergies,
Speaker 2: I can't even do hair products and I still get
Speaker 2: complimented on my hair and like, I love my new
Speaker 2: I've never done a center part. Like she really is
Speaker 2: a visionary and an artists, not just like a job
Speaker 2: to her.
Speaker 3: Like she's roight and.
Speaker 1: The salon is like beautiful and everybody's like really nice
Speaker 1: and friendly.
Speaker 3: There was a crazy woman in there.
Speaker 1: I wish I was like, you got to tell lies
Speaker 1: about this, because there was this woman next to me
Speaker 1: that was with a different stylist, and I didn't really
Speaker 1: hear it.
Speaker 3: I was zoned out.
Speaker 1: I heard the woman later giving the stylist like fake compliments,
Speaker 1: and all I saw my stylists.
Speaker 3: And everybody looking at each other giving eyes.
Speaker 1: So when the woman walked out, our girl was like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck was that? Don't let anybody talk to
Speaker 1: you like that, Like if she talked to me, like
Speaker 1: I was almost going to say something to her, like
Speaker 1: I was about to like step to her, like.
Speaker 3: What do you find fake compliments? Like understanding?
Speaker 1: Well, so what happened first was this woman yelled at
Speaker 1: her stylist and was like, no, this isn't like the
Speaker 1: right color, this isn't the right thing. But it was
Speaker 1: like it was an extension that she asked them to use,
Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, this is just not a good extension,
Speaker 1: like that you brought us or that you want in
Speaker 1: your hair, like we can do X y Z, but
Speaker 1: like this is not the right thing, and she was
Speaker 1: She stood up and like ripped her robe off and
Speaker 1: was like acting all huffy. Then I think they got
Speaker 1: her to calm down. I missed all this. I might
Speaker 1: have been getting a wash or something I missed all this.
Speaker 1: When she sat down, she goes, you know, let's say
Speaker 1: the woman's name is Lisa. She goes, you know, Lisa,
Speaker 1: I know that you're a stylist, but you're also very
Speaker 1: quite good at color. And it was just like this
Speaker 1: really flat compliment where she was trying to like get
Speaker 1: the vibe back after acting like a totally insane person.
Speaker 1: And so they were all just like it was just
Speaker 1: funny hairstylist chatter.
Speaker 4: Like.
Speaker 1: As soon as she walked out, everybody was just like
Speaker 1: she was like, the girl's like, I'm supposed to wash
Speaker 1: her hair next week again, and they were all like,
Speaker 1: cancel on her. You can't have somebody like that in
Speaker 1: the salon treating you like that. Like it was wild.
Speaker 1: But you know, I was there for five hours. I
Speaker 1: was bound to catch some five hours girl. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: I can tell you more about it off Mike. It's
Speaker 1: like two, it's too much. But it was five full hours.
Speaker 1: But wait, should we get.
Speaker 3: You even plan for it to be five hours.
Speaker 1: I planned for it to be three with a possible
Speaker 1: like overlap. And then Jared was already picking up the
Speaker 1: kids and taking them to the playground, and I just
Speaker 1: was very late to meet him, but the kids were
Speaker 1: so happy when I got there. They were like eating
Speaker 1: pizza and like having a blast. So I had nothing,
Speaker 1: no reason to stress, but I was It's a long
Speaker 1: fucking time to sit somewhere.
Speaker 3: I just was dying at the end.
Speaker 1: But worth it. I do love that. I do love it.
Speaker 1: I love the color I did. It's like I styled
Speaker 1: it myself this time. But she did a great job anyway,
Speaker 1: So yellowjackets fucking. When I saw what happened, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is the finale. And that's when
Speaker 1: I checked the episode count and was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's only nine. But you know there is going to
Speaker 1: be some kind of bonus episode coming out. Well that's
Speaker 1: what I hear, but like, yeah, I don't buy it.
Speaker 3: Where is it?
Speaker 1: Well, the people said, like the people that created it.
Speaker 1: I read something where they said that they want to
Speaker 1: like give everybody time to like process and then it's
Speaker 1: going to probably happen in a few months or something.
Speaker 2: But okay, you know what it's like if you want
Speaker 2: to do what they did. Fine, it was done poorly.
Speaker 2: It was bad. It was really bad. It was it
Speaker 2: was like a phony, fake scene it wasn't believable.
Speaker 3: It was stupid. They got rid of a character.
Speaker 1: That I think is kind of a lifeblood of the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, was that the word you're looking for?
Speaker 1: Like, well, no, because I love Melanie Lynsky's character so
Speaker 1: much too, but I love I love Christina.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 2: If you don't want to know what happened, fucking fast forward,
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta read a forward because we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about this and it's gonna have major yellowjacket season
Speaker 1: two spoilers, So fast forward, we're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2: Like Juliette Lewis and Christina Ricci had such a chemistry,
Speaker 2: such a dynamic together to keep them separate all season
Speaker 2: and then finally we get them together and it's like
Speaker 2: finally and last is like in the Call Dead that like,
Speaker 2: and it was like the scene was hokey. That's the word.
Speaker 1: Like, it didn't ridiculous sense, it was ridiculous. And I
Speaker 1: actually read the Vulture recap in anticipation of this conversation
Speaker 1: because I know you read them too, and I was like,
Speaker 1: they pointed out a lot of stuff. They were like
Speaker 1: first the daughter shows up as a person interrupting and
Speaker 1: then the other girl. It just like it was all
Speaker 1: like too capery and wild, and it was also like,
Speaker 1: are you guys really gonna hunt Melanie Lynsky, Are you not?
Speaker 1: Like it was so all over the place of the
Speaker 1: whole fucking episode. Then in case, like you know, so
Speaker 1: you know what we're talking about. Obviously they killed Juliet
Speaker 1: adult Juliet Lewis's character.
Speaker 2: And that it also takes away from the compellingness of
Speaker 2: the young actress because like, I loved the dynamic, the
Speaker 2: shift between young and old. So it's like to know
Speaker 2: that she's gone and so watch the young is strange.
Speaker 2: I liked having our core there.
Speaker 1: Yes, but I have to say, I don't know that
Speaker 1: they wrote her off the show. I have a feeling
Speaker 1: she wanted out. I just have a feeling.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's smarter than what I thought, because I thought
Speaker 2: like she might be difficult, because remember that one interview,
Speaker 2: maybe like she was just causing trouble, and even on
Speaker 2: Less Cultury Stafe, Melanie Lynsky said, like, no one's like Juliette,
Speaker 2: you know in a way where I'm reading between the lines.
Speaker 2: I can't be certain that's what she meant. But I
Speaker 2: was like maybe they're getting rid of her because she's psycho,
Speaker 2: but you're right. Maybe she was like, I don't want
Speaker 2: to fucking be on a show for five seasons. Get
Speaker 2: me out of here and scientology meetings to get to
Speaker 2: and push ups to do.
Speaker 3: Wait, she she's not scientologist, does she? Of course she is?
Speaker 3: Oh I forgot that. Oh that's not great.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Like in my opinion, what people are saying
Speaker 1: too is that she didn't like the direction that her
Speaker 1: character was going, and like I feel like maybe she
Speaker 1: just said, great, I had a great ride on the show,
Speaker 1: Like I'm done, you know, to you know what I.
Speaker 2: Would have done, Have the young girl in the cult
Speaker 2: fucking kill her, have it be a weird accident, have
Speaker 2: them hunt. Yes, Like there's just so Melanie Lynsky choke
Speaker 2: her out to fucking death. Like I just think it's
Speaker 2: just so hokey. It's like Christina re.
Speaker 1: All like yeah, like tripping and oh like in your
Speaker 1: back like this is Benny Hill. Yeah, just was so ridiculous.
Speaker 2: But also like them all agreeing that they're gonna like
Speaker 2: what's it called, like humor Lottie and her delusions, but
Speaker 2: then all get bloodlust. Like I just it's fucked up.
Speaker 2: What I did love was Coach Ben. I think burning
Speaker 2: down the cabin and trying to kill them all because
Speaker 2: they're psychopaths. But like that's cool because now I'm ready
Speaker 2: for the third season.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what as usually do?
Speaker 5: What you do?
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, But the thing I've said about this show
Speaker 1: to you, like maybe off mic, but also on another
Speaker 1: podcast that we did, is like I find there to
Speaker 1: be a huge disconnect between the now and the bat
Speaker 1: and the and the past. The past I'm locked fucking in,
Speaker 1: Like I am into all those actresses, I'm into the performances,
Speaker 1: I'm into the plot, the Coach Ben, Where's fucking Crystal?
Speaker 3: Like all of the stuff. There's good stuff going on there.
Speaker 1: The present is like it's like to me, I don't
Speaker 1: watch How to Get Away with Murder or like, but
Speaker 1: it seems like one of these like soapy ABC shows
Speaker 1: like Gray's or something where it's like, what's what is
Speaker 1: happening right now? Like I don't understand a lot of
Speaker 1: the choices that they're making and the cop dying. How
Speaker 1: are they going to cover up the CoP's death? I
Speaker 1: didn't understand Walter Tattersaw, how that whole thing planned out
Speaker 1: and I was like, what, what's even going on? Like
Speaker 1: it was very confusing if.
Speaker 2: I just had such high hopes, I was such a diehard.
Speaker 2: Thank god I didn't get a tattoo because I am upset.
Speaker 1: Well, there is a sophomore slump with a lot of shows.
Speaker 1: Hopefully season three. They hear some of the feedback and like,
Speaker 1: cause I was deep in the comments too, and people
Speaker 1: were like, maybe I'm done with this show now, like people,
Speaker 1: you know, like they just.
Speaker 3: People were not satisfied with this season.
Speaker 2: No, And the thing is like they didn't have to
Speaker 2: wrap up the Adams stuff, like they didn't have to rush.
Speaker 2: It felt rushed and crazy and haphazard. Honestly, if you
Speaker 2: needed to kill off her, like I'd rather fall off
Speaker 2: a cliff or get into a weird car accident. Like yeah,
Speaker 2: I just really hated it, and I hated You're right,
Speaker 2: like everyone with guns right away, the cops and Elijah
Speaker 2: Wood and everyone's there in the hospital. It was bananas.
Speaker 2: I really am upset, But you're right. The young storyline
Speaker 2: is so compelling. I would honestly watch a show which
Speaker 2: is The Young Girls. I also caught up on SVU.
Speaker 2: I was like three episodes behind. I'm just the last one.
Speaker 1: I'm the last one because I felt like I had
Speaker 1: to watch that OC crossover where like the last one
Speaker 1: I watched was the one where like all these women
Speaker 1: are being attacked and they don't and it seems like
Speaker 1: people are maybe hiring someone to do it. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: they just end the SVU episode because the answer is
Speaker 1: in the OC episode pretty much.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: And so that's why I was confused, and so I
Speaker 1: didn't want to and so I had to. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I had to catch up on OC and I'm almost there.
Speaker 1: I'm almost caught up, So I have like two more
Speaker 1: OC's and then the last SVIE to watch. So I
Speaker 1: haven't seen that Rollins is back and pregnant with Sonny
Speaker 1: Caristie Junior, but I know that she is and the
Speaker 1: real actress, Kelly Giddish, she came on our podcast she
Speaker 1: was probably with child and just didn't tell us her
Speaker 1: best friends how dare but exciting news for her.
Speaker 3: Congrats Kelly and Amanda.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't know how this whole season of
Speaker 1: sview like kind of was weird to me.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I you know the article sorry to
Speaker 2: jump ship. We do also have to start this pod.
Speaker 2: But the New Yorker article you sent me on the
Speaker 2: cancelation club, okay, really got me going. So there's a
Speaker 2: club of thought criminals, cancel witers, and they meet up
Speaker 2: and they all act like victims. They all act like
Speaker 2: the world is unfair, and then they are the craziest
Speaker 2: group of people I've ever read about. Like one of
Speaker 2: the authors in quotes wrote, I've done enough psychedel to
Speaker 2: forgive Hitler.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't see like that girl.
Speaker 1: Yeah you should. No one likes you and you're not canceled.
Speaker 1: That's a bad opinion, and they'll fuck yourself. And that
Speaker 1: girl and that girl is a is a comedian. I
Speaker 1: just texted Casey. I just texted you the link, so
Speaker 1: we can put the link to it in our show
Speaker 1: notes if you want to see this article. But it's
Speaker 1: just so funny how nonchalantly she describes all the people
Speaker 1: that are at this party. So this is like a
Speaker 1: These are like happenings that this woman who's a psychologist
Speaker 1: has in New York. A lot of times they happen
Speaker 1: at the restaurant that's above the comedy Seller where Lisa
Speaker 1: performs all the time, and or they happen at apartments
Speaker 1: or whatever, and it's just like, you know, people that
Speaker 1: have been canceled sharing their edge lord ideas, and it's
Speaker 1: like so and so Princeton professor who's married to one
Speaker 1: of his former students and has been accused of many
Speaker 1: inappropriate sexual relationships with the students.
Speaker 3: It's like, Okay, give me that guy's thoughts. I need them.
Speaker 1: And then it'll be like this girl who wrote an
Speaker 1: article about how affirmative action is bad at Harvard. It's like,
Speaker 1: you like, or how it like let's in unqualified people
Speaker 1: of color, Like it's all these like horrible people. And
Speaker 1: then it's like this other writer who's been accused of
Speaker 1: sexual assault by many people, like but I don't believe it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's yeah.
Speaker 2: And there was like a guy who's like, I can't
Speaker 2: get a talent representative because I'm a white man, and
Speaker 2: it's like, why does everyone else that you're working with
Speaker 2: that's a white man have a representative. The persons in
Speaker 2: that article I actually used to know in New York
Speaker 2: and that person you're talking about, and he was a
Speaker 2: really sweet, nice person and I feel like he Taylors
Speaker 2: all the time had a mental break.
Speaker 3: Well, it just happens.
Speaker 2: This happens to little white men, This happens to I
Speaker 2: can only speak in our industry, but like, this happens
Speaker 2: two men that do not get as successful as they
Speaker 2: want and they become right wing lunatics and it's everyone
Speaker 2: else's fault but them, And this is classic.
Speaker 3: It happens constantly.
Speaker 2: And I always say, like, if I wanted to sell
Speaker 2: out theaters, I think I can go.
Speaker 1: Right wing and I would be the biggest star easily. Easily.
Speaker 3: It is you will know.
Speaker 1: I literally have you seen the clip going around of
Speaker 1: somebody that we both know, who's a comedian back in
Speaker 1: New York on news Max making a racist joke and
Speaker 1: then you go to her thread and it's all this
Speaker 1: like conspiracy shit where she thinks that she thinks that
Speaker 1: the Left is like targeting her, and it's like, girl,
Speaker 1: there's video of you saying bad shit, Like there's no
Speaker 1: underground cabal of like people.
Speaker 3: Trying to take you down.
Speaker 1: You're taking yourself down, yourself, Like it's just I just.
Speaker 2: Don't get the canceled things. It's like, ye know, some
Speaker 2: things people don't like. Yeah, if you say you can
Speaker 2: forgive Hitler and you don't understand why people don't like
Speaker 2: that or want to be around you.
Speaker 1: Don't.
Speaker 2: I don't get the confusion. It's not a you're right,
Speaker 2: it's not conspiracy.
Speaker 3: We don't like you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want to hang out with someone who's down,
Speaker 1: who thinks they're superior, because I've done enough mushroom where
Speaker 1: they can forgive a warlord at a genocidalmaniac. You had
Speaker 1: to take so many drugs to convince yourself that you're
Speaker 1: okay after you got canceled for writing something that was racist.
Speaker 3: Like, that's it, that's it, that's what happened girl.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's a funny article. We all will post
Speaker 2: it on.
Speaker 1: Our head we'll link to it in our Yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: link to it in our show notes too.
Speaker 3: I just sent it to Casey. But we should get started.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's drag race to talk about, but we
Speaker 1: just have to get going. Gotta just want to remind
Speaker 1: everybody before we start that we will be in Denver
Speaker 1: this coming Sunday. You guys come see us on the
Speaker 1: twenty fifth in Denver at Comedy Works. It's one of
Speaker 1: the best clubs. We sold out last year and had
Speaker 1: the best time. We all went out and got a
Speaker 1: drink with a bunch of you last year. Who knows,
Speaker 1: maybe we'll be up for that this year. I'm bringing
Speaker 1: a friend, actually, a friend's coming with me to Edver
Speaker 1: and then in La we'll be at the Bourbon Room
Speaker 1: on Thursday the twenty ninth, So you can kick off
Speaker 1: your like summer fun with coming to see us in
Speaker 1: La at the It's in Hollywood. It's an awesome room,
Speaker 1: great drinks, fun food items, and obviously our beautifully funny podcast.
Speaker 3: Uh well to come.
Speaker 2: So a listener Acutie Acutie of ours posts of a
Speaker 2: little video are a story on their Instagram and it's
Speaker 2: in Russian and they go, I don't know what this says,
Speaker 2: but I like it or whatever, and so I translated
Speaker 2: it for him and it said we need me and
Speaker 2: you need to have a serious conversation. So then this
Speaker 2: person immediately sends me a screenshot that they bought a
Speaker 2: ticket to the Bourbon Room show in LA and they go,
Speaker 2: can't wait, ready to talk, whatever you need, And then
Speaker 2: I had to say I was translating the story you posted.
Speaker 2: And then he wrote, this is humiliated.
Speaker 3: That is so well, Now you guys are going to
Speaker 3: have a serious conversation.
Speaker 1: At the Bourbon Room about this and it's gonna be
Speaker 1: so funny. But yeah, come see us. The Bourbon Room
Speaker 1: show is going to be so fun and that's messed up.
Speaker 1: Live dot Com is where you can get ticket links
Speaker 1: to all that stuff, as well as merch our own website,
Speaker 1: so you can check out where Lisa's doing stand up.
Speaker 1: She'll be in Denver doing stand up as well. The
Speaker 1: day after our show, Lisa, two days after.
Speaker 3: I don't know anymore.
Speaker 2: Around Monday night works. Life is hard, Jake, It's quite easy,
Speaker 2: but I just can't even handle that.
Speaker 3: Let's start this podcast. Jesus, let Christ get going.
Speaker 1: We got a good one for you today. All right, guys,
Speaker 1: today we are doing I consider this a classic.
Speaker 3: I don't know why.
Speaker 1: This one's always stuck in my head. I've always remembered it.
Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna say before you said it.
Speaker 2: I was going, we're doing a classic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I don't really know why per se, because
Speaker 1: it's not like there's like a major star in it
Speaker 1: or anything.
Speaker 3: But I think maybe for me it's maybe it's the
Speaker 3: rich we love a wretch, and I think.
Speaker 1: It might be one of the first big episodes where
Speaker 1: it's like the uber wealthy er hiding the crimes for
Speaker 1: their I'm sure there's one of those in seasons one,
Speaker 1: two or three, but this feels like one of the
Speaker 1: first big ones. And there's just little pieces of it
Speaker 1: that always stick out to me. It's called privilege. It's
Speaker 1: season four, episode seventeen, this baby came.
Speaker 2: You know what else I learned? Privilege is not easy
Speaker 2: to spell. There's a little secret eye in the middle
Speaker 2: of there.
Speaker 3: Privilege. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's an annoying word that you have to overenunciate yes,
Speaker 1: and it bothers me. And they use it in multiple
Speaker 1: contexts in this episode. I always try to squeeze a
Speaker 1: D in there, like a dge like yes. Always, it's
Speaker 1: just like word.
Speaker 3: I do that as well. That's my big thing.
Speaker 1: I remember that little I, but the D I'm always like,
Speaker 1: it's like sledge I got it, But it's not so.
Speaker 1: This little baby came out in two thousand and three
Speaker 1: February exciting. We open on a scene just straight out
Speaker 1: of Golden Girls. It's like an older woman in her
Speaker 1: back garden at night and she's on her landline gabbing
Speaker 1: with a friend about a man like what does he
Speaker 1: really want your pecan pies or your nice fat bank balance,
Speaker 1: And then she like puts her hand up to her
Speaker 1: wisteria and a drop of blood falls in her hand
Speaker 1: and she just immediately is like, I think it's a
Speaker 1: dead animal, and it's like, not on the show, baby,
Speaker 1: And as she tells her friend, she goes, Okay, Albert's
Speaker 1: only in it aft for the sex.
Speaker 3: You have my blessing.
Speaker 2: And then as she's so funny because I was watching
Speaker 2: this at my parents' house while I was doing research,
Speaker 2: just you know, another a fourth or fifth three watch
Speaker 2: why not? But they're like do you really need to
Speaker 2: be watching this? And I was like I'm a teen,
Speaker 2: but I was like, yeah, it's for work.
Speaker 1: And then the first thing is her being like, if
Speaker 1: you want to fuck him, fuck him like this.
Speaker 3: Ole world lady.
Speaker 1: She's poking at a dead animal in her wisteria tree
Speaker 1: while giving her you know, sixty nine year old friend
Speaker 1: like a relationship advice, and she's like, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: if it's just for the sex, it's you have my blessing,
Speaker 1: And like she's waiting for this dead animal to fall
Speaker 1: out of the tree while she's like, you're pushing seventy
Speaker 1: how many more rides on the merrygo round or left?
Speaker 1: And it's just like this episode reeks of Neil Bear,
Speaker 1: Like I just feel like it has Neil Bear all
Speaker 1: over it, like old ladies being brassy and talking about sex.
Speaker 1: And then she gives the tree one last poke and
Speaker 1: a full fucking body falls out of it.
Speaker 3: She gives us a really nice scream.
Speaker 1: Queen scream, and we see not much of this woman
Speaker 1: except that she is wearing a maid's uniform. Cut to
Speaker 1: the debrief by Benson, the woman who found the body
Speaker 1: is named Katerina Blundell Ben. Benson goes, the victim dropped
Speaker 1: it on her unexpectedly. It's like, okay, comedy, Benson, the
Speaker 1: victim is in her twenties, was wearing a maid's uniform.
Speaker 1: No Id Sabler is like, oh, does the woman who
Speaker 1: found her recognize her from the neighborhood, and Benson goes,
Speaker 1: I doubt it because the victim has no face.
Speaker 3: Ugh ouch gross.
Speaker 1: And then Warner pops in and she's like, from the lividity,
Speaker 1: it seems like she's been dead a while. She says
Speaker 1: it looks like a suicide, but she's also got bruising
Speaker 1: on her breasts, thighs, and buttocks.
Speaker 3: That's vu was called.
Speaker 1: And then Benson goes, maybe a rapent toss And I'm like,
Speaker 1: is that a term? Is that like a term that
Speaker 1: they use all the time, a rape and toss? Or
Speaker 1: is she just like coming up with that. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's a term or not, but I know
Speaker 1: it's going to be merch for sure. We should make
Speaker 1: ring toss game corn hornhole or cornhole bean bags. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's say that, Okay, But then Warner goes, these injuries
Speaker 1: are long standing, Like, this is not what happened right
Speaker 1: before she died.
Speaker 3: This looks like ongoing, you know, abuse or something.
Speaker 1: So they see the building that she must have fallen
Speaker 1: from is a huge high rise called Trellick or tower,
Speaker 1: and Stabler calls it Millionaire Heaven, and they assume she's
Speaker 1: a maid who like they immediately create a story for
Speaker 1: this maid. Should They're like, she's a maid, she doesn't speech,
Speaker 1: must speak much English, she's alone in a foreign country.
Speaker 1: She was raped, but she couldn't call the cops. So
Speaker 1: then she jumps or she's pushed, don't done. That's the
Speaker 1: credits top of Act one, Benson and Stabler are meeting
Speaker 1: with Tom Payson. He runs secure for the Lamberley family
Speaker 1: and they live in the penthouse of this building.
Speaker 3: So they go up there and he's like, how do
Speaker 3: you know it is us?
Speaker 1: And it's because every building in this every apartment in
Speaker 1: this building, their windows don't even open big enough for
Speaker 1: a kid to fit out of, So the only place
Speaker 1: somebody could have jumped from would have been the very
Speaker 1: tippity top the penthouse. Baby, So he says, the apartment's
Speaker 1: been empty all weekend. The family was in Connecticut until
Speaker 1: Missus Lamberley came home Sunday night, and he said there
Speaker 1: was no sign of a break in. He's being a
Speaker 1: little cagy about letting them look around, and then Benson
Speaker 1: pulls the whole like, we can come back with a
Speaker 1: warrant a couple of CV crews if you want, and
Speaker 1: he's like, fine, let me just warn the old lady.
Speaker 1: Oh and also, I forgot to mention that Payson mentions,
Speaker 1: or they meant the cops discussed how he used to
Speaker 1: be a cop, Like he's been with the Lammerleys for
Speaker 1: five years, but he used to be a cop at
Speaker 1: the two nine. So we meet Candice Lamberley next, and
Speaker 1: she's played by Michael Learned, who is an Emmy Award
Speaker 1: winning actress from the Waltons and most recently played Dahmer's
Speaker 1: grandmother in Dahmer on Netflix. If you watch that, and
Speaker 1: she's very classic SVU rich old lady like detectives.
Speaker 3: Can I help you?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to keep you waiting, like very Connecticut lockjaw
Speaker 1: and all that, and she tells them that all of
Speaker 1: the help had the weekend off. So they go out
Speaker 1: onto the penthouse balcony. They see that it looks right
Speaker 1: down onto where the body was found, and they're like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna need to look at security camera tapes and
Speaker 1: have CSU come out here and check the scene. And
Speaker 1: they're like, don't touch the railing, old lady, and she's like, oh, so,
Speaker 1: you know, we're about to get investigating because this seems
Speaker 1: like it's where the person jumped from. At the precinct,
Speaker 1: Munch is downloading everyone on the Lamberley fortune, which comes
Speaker 1: from the late grandfather's real estate business. He had the cash,
Speaker 1: grandma had the class. They say, so the son Douglas
Speaker 1: runs everything now. His wife lives in Bermuda and rarely leaves.
Speaker 1: They have one son named Drew who just got back
Speaker 1: from Europe. And then they're like basically talking about how
Speaker 1: Granny's like a tea party charity kind of lady, and
Speaker 1: that's what they were doing.
Speaker 3: Out in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: They see on security tapes a woman in a maid's
Speaker 1: uniform entering with her own key at four four five
Speaker 1: on Saturday, and Kragan's like, any reports of missing servants,
Speaker 1: which I just thought was a funny line, and they're like, no,
Speaker 1: everyone is accounted for, So who is this woman? So
Speaker 1: now Melinda is in absence of a face. Melinda is
Speaker 1: running dental prints and everything on this person because facial
Speaker 1: reconstruction is not possible. There's too much damage. There was
Speaker 1: no drugs or alcohol in her system, no fluids, but
Speaker 1: traces of lube or spermicide, so it means the attacker
Speaker 1: are used to condom. Bruises and strap marks that are
Speaker 1: on her body are old. Finn points out that this
Speaker 1: victim might have just liked rough sex and none of
Speaker 1: this proves that she was raped, and like the marks
Speaker 1: on her neck could have been erotic asphyxiation, and the
Speaker 1: marks on her body could mean she's an SNM junkie like,
Speaker 1: who knows, and so Melinda goes, I guess it's possible.
Speaker 1: The degree of violence does seem controlled. And then another
Speaker 1: interesting thing is that they found one of her shoes
Speaker 1: and it's a black patent leather stiletto, and Melinda likes
Speaker 1: Benson knows her brands and goes, this is pretty high
Speaker 1: end for a maid. And she goes nice stockings too,
Speaker 1: So Finn's putting it all together. He goes, she's wearing
Speaker 1: nice high heels, fancy undies, dressed like a maid. This
Speaker 1: sounds like an out call fantasy to me, I did
Speaker 1: not know what that meant. An out call is a
Speaker 1: visit to a customer's home by a professional. I didn't
Speaker 1: know that.
Speaker 3: So there we go.
Speaker 1: It's like any fantasy, I guess of like the FedEx
Speaker 1: guy or a nurse coming to your house or any
Speaker 1: of that. In the next scene, Douglas Lamberley has entered
Speaker 1: the chat and he is played by John Bolger. He
Speaker 1: has a sort of an older, balding Bradley Cooper vibe
Speaker 1: to me, especially if you go to his IMDb and
Speaker 1: you see his young picture. He was kind of like
Speaker 1: a Bradley Cooper then going on, he's been in all
Speaker 1: of the law and orders, and you guys might remember
Speaker 1: him because in the episode we've already covered, which comes later.
Speaker 3: I believe it's season six.
Speaker 1: The episode we covered called Identity about the two twins
Speaker 1: where one is a girl and one is a boy,
Speaker 1: but not really. He plays their father, so if you
Speaker 1: recognize him, it could be from that. He looks at
Speaker 1: a picture of the security footage of the woman entering
Speaker 1: the apartment and he goes, oh, I think that's Anna Rivera.
Speaker 3: She worked for them for a month.
Speaker 1: They learned that she lied about her legal status and
Speaker 1: they had to let her go. She was very upset
Speaker 1: about losing the job, but they did give her three
Speaker 1: months severance, which is they say, pretty generous.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's pretty generous.
Speaker 1: And Stabler's like, bro, she was wearing stilettos and price
Speaker 1: the underwear. I don't think she came up here to
Speaker 1: polish the credenza like a little Stabler sass. And he
Speaker 1: also explained that her body showed signs of repeated violent sex.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of back and forth with this guy,
Speaker 1: like what what are you saying? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: You don't think I had anything to do with this,
Speaker 1: do you? And then the subject turns to his son,
Speaker 1: how well did your son know Anna?
Speaker 3: And he's getting really mad.
Speaker 1: Now he's like he was in Connecticut, we all were,
Speaker 1: and he's getting really pissed. But the mother's like, calm down.
Speaker 1: Yelling is unseemly, you know. She gets them to be quiet,
Speaker 1: and then they're like, do you guys have an address
Speaker 1: on Anna? And she's like. The grandmother's like, we'll get
Speaker 1: it to you, no problem. She's being very cooperative. Suddenly
Speaker 1: a CSU guy interrupts. It goes detectives. There's something you
Speaker 1: should see, and I think this would make good merch detectives.
Speaker 1: There's something you got to see. We've hear that all
Speaker 1: the time. He found prints on the railing that matched
Speaker 1: the ones on the balcony door, but only hers. There
Speaker 1: are none inside either, But he goes, Granny looks like
Speaker 1: a clean freak. So from the prince, it kind of
Speaker 1: looks like she hung down from the railing and then
Speaker 1: changed her mind and tried to pull herself up because
Speaker 1: they were smudged. But now you know, we're at the
Speaker 1: apartment of Anna Rivera and we're discovered. We're trying to
Speaker 1: find track her down and a landlord is letting them.
Speaker 1: In classic SVU landlord, he's like, I don't know. She's
Speaker 1: from Guatemala. She's quiet, she's clean, she paid her rent.
Speaker 1: So when she tells the landlord that Anna is dead,
Speaker 1: the landlord's like, damn, what am I going.
Speaker 3: To do with her stuff?
Speaker 1: And Stabler takes a brush out of toothbrush for Warner
Speaker 1: to confirm the positive ID. So now we're back at
Speaker 1: Melinda's house and she goes, guess what, these items that
Speaker 1: you grabbed are absolutely unhelpful because they're both brand new.
Speaker 1: She also shows them very fine cuts on the victim's
Speaker 1: finger and they're like, that seems like weird for a
Speaker 1: maid like and she they swabbed and she didn't find
Speaker 1: any household cleaners, but did find a specific kind of
Speaker 1: acetone that is used exclusively for cleaning motion picture film. Interesting.
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, done done. Maybe she was a film student,
Speaker 1: they guess. At the precinct, they have confirmation that the
Speaker 1: Lamberleys were all in Connecticut. There's even a picture of
Speaker 1: Drew running a red light in his little audi at
Speaker 1: six ten pm on the.
Speaker 3: Night of the murder.
Speaker 1: So Munch obviously, who always gets the grunt work of like,
Speaker 1: go through nine million directories and find this person. He goes, Guys,
Speaker 1: there's tons of film schools in New York. He's really complaining,
Speaker 1: He's like, and also, a kid not showing up to
Speaker 1: film school class on a Monday morning is not exactly
Speaker 1: setting off any alarm bells. So Olivia's like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: there is a student named Carmen Trancoso who was supposed
Speaker 1: to screen her film at the new school and never
Speaker 1: showed up. So now they're at the new school. They're
Speaker 1: talking to Carmen's friend, a girl named Susie. She's like,
Speaker 1: what's going on? What happened the cage? They won't tell her.
Speaker 1: She shows them Carmen's stuff, tells them that Carmen is
Speaker 1: from s Paolo, Brazil and that she was doing pretty
Speaker 1: well here even though her English wasn't great. They find
Speaker 1: a picture of Carmen, who is beautiful like most of
Speaker 1: the victims on the show, and Susie tells them she
Speaker 1: recently broke up with a boyfriend and she said that
Speaker 1: Carmen said she was going to make the ex pay
Speaker 1: and that the ex boyfriend's name was Drew Lamberley.
Speaker 3: Dun dun dun.
Speaker 1: So we're connecting the dots here back at the precinct,
Speaker 1: Benson's adding Carmen's pick to the wall of info, you know,
Speaker 1: the little Homeland wall that they always have going on,
Speaker 1: and says the Emmy confirms that DNA proves it's Carmen Trencoso,
Speaker 1: Drew Lamberley's ex who is the victim that they have found.
Speaker 1: So Anna Rivera has vanished and there's no record of
Speaker 1: her on any flights. And suddenly in walks Drew Lamerley,
Speaker 1: Susie called him. He thinks he should make a statement,
Speaker 1: and then they're like about what, and he goes, Carmen Trencoso,
Speaker 1: it's my fault.
Speaker 3: She's dead.
Speaker 1: Music swells and we fade to come for some reason
Speaker 1: there Deton.
Speaker 3: This is Eric Vondtton.
Speaker 1: He's a child actor who was in a ton of
Speaker 1: stuff and actually voiced the psycho neighbor kid named Sid
Speaker 1: in all the toy story.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just found that out when I was looking about,
Speaker 1: uh looking him up. He doesn't act anymore. Oh really, yeah,
Speaker 1: it looks like he stopped. He came out of retirement,
Speaker 1: they said to do one toy story thing in twenty ten,
Speaker 1: and that's it.
Speaker 3: I wonder what he's up to.
Speaker 1: I know, well, oh actually his Wikipedia said he's like
Speaker 1: a banker now, he'd like or business like investment banking
Speaker 1: type of stuff, which he kind of has to look for,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I remember him the most from Princess Diaries.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's and we know that's a blind spot for
Speaker 3: old Kara. Well it's also he was a lot.
Speaker 2: He was always on the covers of like Tiger Beat
Speaker 2: J fourteen, like he was part of that.
Speaker 1: Crew of ten heart throbs with highlights. So well, he's
Speaker 1: a little hard. He's married with kids now and he's
Speaker 1: doing like regular business for work. But I'm sure people
Speaker 1: recognize him all the time, and I'm sure his episode
Speaker 1: comes on all the time.
Speaker 3: But there's something about.
Speaker 1: The way he says Carmen Trencoso, Like I always remember
Speaker 1: the way he says that, and when I think of
Speaker 1: this episode Privilege, I go, I'm always like, is that
Speaker 1: the Carmen Trenkoso episode? Like because of his like a
Speaker 1: rich kid pronunciation of her name. But anyway, so top
Speaker 1: of back too, Drew's given them all the info. He's like,
Speaker 1: Carmen and I dated a month. It was really intense.
Speaker 1: It was so intense I had to end it. He
Speaker 1: broke up with her ten days ago. She took it badly,
Speaker 1: kept following him around, showing up at his apartment, and
Speaker 1: then he last talked to her Saturday. She begged to
Speaker 1: see him, but he was in the country with his family.
Speaker 1: So the cops are asking, so, is Anna rivera dead
Speaker 1: or what? And Drew's like, no, Actually, one of the
Speaker 1: other maids just heard from her. It turns out she's
Speaker 1: in Miami visiting a sick aunt. You're like, okay, I
Speaker 1: guess I'm happy to like close the loop on that.
Speaker 1: But he sounds it feels like he's lying a little bit.
Speaker 1: So why is Carmen wearing a maid's uniform? And Drew's like, well,
Speaker 1: she couldn't get into the building any other way. I
Speaker 1: told the door met not to let her in. She
Speaker 1: must have made a copy of my key while I
Speaker 1: was sleeping and then snuck in as a maid or
Speaker 1: that was her big ruse. So Stabler pulls out the
Speaker 1: big guns and throws a bunch of picks of Carmen's
Speaker 1: beaten body on the table and.
Speaker 3: Is like, look at this, you little prick. Look what
Speaker 3: you did to her.
Speaker 1: And then he admits that him and Carmen had a
Speaker 1: lot of rough sex, but he's like, Carmen loved it.
Speaker 1: It was never enough for her. She always wanted more.
Speaker 1: She wanted me to choke her until she blacked out.
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. It was too much for me.
Speaker 1: That's why I broke up with her. So I don't
Speaker 1: know this kid's a good actor because like, at points
Speaker 1: of it, you're like, is he telling the truth?
Speaker 3: Who knows?
Speaker 1: Yeah, But you know, it's like it's such a acting
Speaker 1: for me because it's like I don't buy it.
Speaker 3: I don't buy it. If you had no, I don't
Speaker 3: buy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we cut to Daddy Cragan gathering answers.
Speaker 1: He says there was They find out there was, in
Speaker 1: fact a ten minute phone call I'm the Penthouse to
Speaker 1: Connecticut at five point thirty two on Saturday. The bruising
Speaker 1: could be consensual what Stablers take, And Stabler's like, this
Speaker 1: kid's got an answer for everything. So then he's like,
Speaker 1: all right, well we don't have a lot right now.
Speaker 1: Let's like gently and discreetly look into Drew's history, but
Speaker 1: be chill because these are rich people and they will,
Speaker 1: you know, lean on the brass at one pp as
Speaker 1: we always hear about. So Benson notices that Carmen's date
Speaker 1: book has her meeting with Roger Bernbaum three times last week.
Speaker 1: Benson dials the number and goes, guess who I'm on
Speaker 1: hold with? Roger Burnbaum and Delile personally personal injury lawyers. Now,
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler are walking and talking with a lawyer
Speaker 1: who's carrying way too many files, and he admits that
Speaker 1: he represents Carmen, but he says, I can't discuss anything
Speaker 1: about the case without your her permission. And they're like,
Speaker 1: we're sorry to tell you, sir, but your client is dead.
Speaker 1: And he's like, what happened and he explains to them that. Well,
Speaker 1: they tell her that she died by suiciding. Delile goes, well,
Speaker 1: Carmen was suing for a settlement from her ex boyfriend
Speaker 1: for rape, and they're like, did she have a good case?
Speaker 1: And he's like, honestly, no. She told him that their
Speaker 1: sex life had gone increasingly violent. She tried to break up,
Speaker 1: he pursued her, she resisted he raped her and beat her,
Speaker 1: but she refused to report the assaults to the police
Speaker 1: because she was afraid it would affect her student visa.
Speaker 1: So we talk all the time about a lot why
Speaker 1: a lot of women don't report. This is another reason that's,
Speaker 1: you know, very understandable. They were like, did you believe her?
Speaker 1: And he goes, I believe he hurt her very badly.
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure he raped her, but I took the
Speaker 1: case anyway because I figured they'd settle. They're the Lamberley's
Speaker 1: who would want this to be public. So now we're
Speaker 1: back at the Lamberley penthouse and Douglas introduces Benson and
Speaker 1: Stabler to his attorney. And her name is Lorna Scary,
Speaker 1: but he pronounces it's scary, and maybe it is scary.
Speaker 1: I think the name Laura Scary is very funny. How
Speaker 1: do you say the children's book author whose name is Richard?
Speaker 1: I say scary. You say Richard Scary, but I think
Speaker 1: it's wrong. No, it's scary.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I always saw I grew up saying Richard scary. This
Speaker 1: woman's name is pronounced is spelled like his. But I
Speaker 1: love the idea of a defense attorney named Laura Scary, Like,
Speaker 1: what a funny last name for that line of work.
Speaker 1: She is in six episodes of SVU, this character Laura
Speaker 1: Scary and this is the first one. And her name.
Speaker 1: The actress's name is Maryette Hartley. She has one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty six credits. She's been acting since the sixties.
Speaker 1: She is prolific. The detectives are like, oh, that's interesting
Speaker 1: that an attorneys seer.
Speaker 3: We just came from Carmen's attorney.
Speaker 1: Laura makes a nasty dig, being like, oh, has mister
Speaker 1: Deliah been hit by any ambulances lately, implying you know
Speaker 1: that he's an ambulance chaser lawyer and not as highbrow
Speaker 1: as she is. She implies that Carmen was unbalanced and
Speaker 1: trying to extort the Lamberleys, and when it didn't work out,
Speaker 1: she took her own life. Drew swears he's innocent and
Speaker 1: that Carmen liked the rough stuff, and the lawyer is like, an,
Speaker 1: I've got three affidavits from three of Carmen's former boyfriends,
Speaker 1: two of whom she picked up in bars, as if
Speaker 1: that fucking matters, and they will testify that she was
Speaker 1: an animal. The rougher the sex, the better, So they're
Speaker 1: really painting a picture here. These people have got it
Speaker 1: all figured out. Back at the precinct, Live is complaining
Speaker 1: to Daddy Craigs that the lamber Leys are jerking them around.
Speaker 1: She's like, they've got every base covered. You know, this
Speaker 1: just feels a little bit too, you know, sewn up
Speaker 1: and clean, because that's kind of how rich people get
Speaker 1: things done. The report of Drew's pass is pretty typical
Speaker 1: rich boy. He's with an eight figure trust fund, He's
Speaker 1: got a couple of fancy car recks, no record, no
Speaker 1: ex's crying rape.
Speaker 3: He was pretty popular. He played sports.
Speaker 1: He could have played in college, but he never graduated
Speaker 1: high school. Like he was good enough. He was good
Speaker 1: enough at hockey that he could have gone on to
Speaker 1: play in college, but he was like, never graduate high school,
Speaker 1: so what's up? Then he did three years of college
Speaker 1: in Paris, where I guess they don't give a shit
Speaker 1: if you finished high school, not in the States at least,
Speaker 1: And then Craigan says, well, we don't have time to
Speaker 1: chase shadows. Go check out why I love how Craig
Speaker 1: and keeps being like, there's barely a case here. Go
Speaker 1: check out one more thing, and then we're shutting it down.
Speaker 1: So he's like, go see if you can find out
Speaker 1: why he didn't graduate. If you don't find anything, this
Speaker 1: case is closed. So now we're at Radley High School
Speaker 1: and a headmaster is telling them that they had to
Speaker 1: expel Drew and that the school didn't meet his needs
Speaker 1: and they it was a shame they had to expel
Speaker 1: him because he was a good student, but he disrupted
Speaker 1: the senior prom. He brought an attractive older woman as
Speaker 1: his date. They both got drunk, there was an altercation.
Speaker 1: The woman called the police and accused Drew of assaulting her.
Speaker 1: The police didn't seem to think so she dropped the charges.
Speaker 1: But the school has a no alcohol policy. So that's
Speaker 1: what got him kicked out, not that he was potentially
Speaker 1: abusing someone or brought, you know, possibly a sex worker
Speaker 1: to his prom, but just the fact that he was
Speaker 1: drinking got him kicked out. So it was five years
Speaker 1: ago and this man, this head master, does not remember
Speaker 1: the woman's name. So now Benson and Stabler are at
Speaker 1: the twenty ninth precinct where this prom assault was reported,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's on the phone at the captain he's like, well,
Speaker 1: we got a date for the prom It was May sixteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. So then Benson comes out of the
Speaker 1: police department and she's like, so there's no sixty one
Speaker 1: and Stable's like, there's no report, and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: they filed a report, but the sixty one has disappeared.
Speaker 1: And then it looks like the lamber Les are sweeping
Speaker 1: up after Drew again. So but this time she said
Speaker 1: they missed the spot. One of the cops filled out
Speaker 1: an aided card.
Speaker 3: In my.
Speaker 1: Captions it said aided. I don't really know what an
Speaker 1: aided card is, but they're kept in a different place
Speaker 1: than the sixty one's. So when they were, you know,
Speaker 1: getting rid of all their evidence with whoever they had
Speaker 1: on the inside of the police department, the lamber Les
Speaker 1: did not get this aided card. It has the list
Speaker 1: the victim's name listed as well as an address, and
Speaker 1: the victim's name is Jenny White, twenty.
Speaker 3: Four years old.
Speaker 1: So now they're at this brownstone and a woman opens
Speaker 1: the door and her name is Camilla Hartnell and she
Speaker 1: looks like a rich Uppery's side lady too, and they're like, hi,
Speaker 1: we're looking for Jenny White, and she's like, I don't
Speaker 1: recognize that name.
Speaker 3: I've lived here twenty years. I don't know Jenny White.
Speaker 3: And then a man.
Speaker 1: Starts to leave the brownstone and she goes, oh, hi, Frank,
Speaker 1: see you tonight around six, and she kisses this guy
Speaker 1: on the cheek. He wordlessly leaves, and then the cops
Speaker 1: turn to leave and she shuts the door. Benson thinks
Speaker 1: this is a dead end. She's like, all right, here's
Speaker 1: what we gotta do. And then Stabler goes, hold on
Speaker 1: a second. He clocks a lady with a guy about
Speaker 1: to enter this brownstone. Then, but then the girl goes,
Speaker 1: you want to get a cup of coffee?
Speaker 3: And the guy she's with goes, I guess sure.
Speaker 1: So as soon as they see the car, as soon
Speaker 1: as she sees the cops is when she starts this
Speaker 1: little coffee charade and nothing gets by eagle eyed Stabler,
Speaker 1: he's like, this place is a brothel. So he heads
Speaker 1: back up to a couple steps. They knock on the door.
Speaker 1: She comes back and she's like, you're still here, and
Speaker 1: they're like yeah, and we're ready for the truth. Now, bitch,
Speaker 1: tell us where Jenny White is or we're gonna have
Speaker 1: Vice tear this place apart. And this woman like doesn't
Speaker 1: skip a beat. She goes, you really think I'm afraid
Speaker 1: of Vice. I'll have to do is make one phone call,
Speaker 1: and Benson goes, yeah, why don't you do that and
Speaker 1: just barges past her and initiates a full raid. They
Speaker 1: got everything, they got, random girls in robes to girls
Speaker 1: in tube dresses sitting on the couch. Everybody's just hanging
Speaker 1: around and uh, she's there. She's like everybody up against
Speaker 1: the wall, like this is a raid. And Camilla, the
Speaker 1: rich lady looking lady who was actually a madam, goes, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll give you what you want. She goes, Jenny White
Speaker 1: stopped working here three years ago. Where is she? She's
Speaker 1: married to Angus Rochester, one of the richest men in Manhattan,
Speaker 1: and she's say.
Speaker 3: Are rich people committed to bonkers? Names?
Speaker 2: Like am I missing something? You just get wealth and
Speaker 2: then you name someone Angus. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I have a friend whose kid is named Angus,
Speaker 1: but she's Scottish. I think it's like part of their heritage.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, Rochester, just anything ending in Chester, Winchester,
Speaker 1: Rochester like, you know, all we talk about the girls'
Speaker 1: names and they are cute, but like, what's what's Tinsley's
Speaker 1: sister Dinsdale. Oh, Tinsley's sister Darby Darby. I mean, and
Speaker 1: those are southern, those are southern, well, the Northern Wealth.
Speaker 3: It's like, it's like, I don't know what's saying.
Speaker 1: I rewatched the movie Misery, and Bunny McDougall was in
Speaker 1: the movie, and I remember that I saw your story.
Speaker 1: I love Also, none of you have ever seen the
Speaker 1: movie Misery.
Speaker 3: It really holds up.
Speaker 1: It's increasible, it's amazing, it's terrifying.
Speaker 2: It is well because I recently had an audition that
Speaker 2: I did not nail. I did not get it, but
Speaker 2: it was supposed to be a Misery type character.
Speaker 3: And watching her nail it, I was like, oh, this
Speaker 3: is beyond my so good that it's wild.
Speaker 1: But alay back to anyway, Jenny Way is now married.
Speaker 2: To Angus Rochester and Jenny White is such a trash name,
Speaker 2: like that is you know that's a bad teen Jenny White.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jenny, why could be anything to me?
Speaker 1: It could be popular girl, trash, It's very blank slate.
Speaker 1: But she the woman goes she probably doesn't want to
Speaker 1: talk about the past that much now that she's you know,
Speaker 1: living her pretty woman fantasy, like I you know whatever.
Speaker 1: So now they go stop Jenny White in the street
Speaker 1: and they're like Jennifer White and she's like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: my name's Rochester now, and uh yeah, she's full a
Speaker 1: pretty woman like walking down the street with a friend
Speaker 1: and like has a coat with a fur trim. And
Speaker 1: they bring up the prom night and Camilla Hartnell, the
Speaker 1: woman who runs the brothel, And when they bring up
Speaker 1: Drew Lamberley, her face is clearly like I remember, and
Speaker 1: her husband and daughter start approaching and she goes, yes,
Speaker 1: Drew Lamerley rate me, but if you ask me about
Speaker 1: this in front of my husband, I will deny it.
Speaker 1: And then she runs off to be with her little
Speaker 1: picture perfect fam and then Stabler gets a call. Benson says, well,
Speaker 1: I guess Drew gets away with it again, and Stabler,
Speaker 1: from his phone call goes, well, maybe Drew's luck just
Speaker 1: ran out. Now they're at the lab with a friend
Speaker 1: of the pod Joel de la Fuente aka Rubin Morales
Speaker 1: aka Taru to many of you, and he says something
Speaker 1: bothered him about Carmen's suicide. So with a computer program,
Speaker 1: he created a wild re enactment of Carmen's death and
Speaker 1: he's like, if she had just jumped, she would have
Speaker 1: landed in a totally different yard, like the neighbor's yard
Speaker 1: of the one she fell in, but with some propulsion,
Speaker 1: she lands where she landed, so propulsion equals done.
Speaker 3: Done.
Speaker 1: She was pushed, So Benson and Stabler do some body
Speaker 1: to body role play that I'm sure made a lot
Speaker 1: of you very horny when you watched it, where it's
Speaker 1: like and then I push and then you put, and
Speaker 1: like they're doing a little bit of role play in
Speaker 1: front of Reuben, and then they decide that Carmen did
Speaker 1: not die by suicide, it was murder because they figured
Speaker 1: it all out there.
Speaker 3: They've done the physics, they've done.
Speaker 1: The cosplay da Dad, So now they've got to sell
Speaker 1: Daddy Kraigan. And he's like, you guys have no evidence
Speaker 1: of who might have done this, but they know it's Drew.
Speaker 1: They're like, this is not the first rich kid who
Speaker 1: thinks he can treat women how he wants, and there
Speaker 1: could be other victims who were bought off.
Speaker 3: We don't know. Swears he can prove it s Drew.
Speaker 1: But Craigan is like, okay, first start with how he
Speaker 1: ran a red light in Connecticut at the time of
Speaker 1: the murder.
Speaker 3: And Stabler's like, well, there's a hat covering half his face.
Speaker 1: And Craigan is like, well, hey, Munch, is there some
Speaker 1: work you could be doing, even though Munch.
Speaker 3: Is obviously doing work.
Speaker 1: He's like looking at black and white footage, not just
Speaker 1: like watching television. And he's like, well, I was looking
Speaker 1: at earlier footage, because we were just looking at the
Speaker 1: footage of Carmen going into the penthouse. But there's all
Speaker 1: this earlier footage, and earlier I can see. Look at
Speaker 1: the clock. There's a place on the tape where the
Speaker 1: clock jumps forward ten seconds and it looks like a
Speaker 1: piece of the tape was edited out. So the doorman
Speaker 1: from the Lamberley building said that a guy from security
Speaker 1: came by on Sunday morning for a maintenance check. Okay,
Speaker 1: we know what's going on here, more cleanup from the
Speaker 1: rich folk. So someone else entered that penthouse before Carmen arrived.
Speaker 1: They think Drew kills Carmen calls his family in Connecticut
Speaker 1: for nine minutes, which is what explains that phone call,
Speaker 1: not what Drew said, which was Carmen calling him from
Speaker 1: the penthouse to beg him to come into the city.
Speaker 1: Then the dad jumps in the car and runs a
Speaker 1: red light for the instant alibi for his son. Now,
Speaker 1: by the way, Olivia has a Bieber swoop at this
Speaker 1: time period. It's very you know, highlights, very smooth, little
Speaker 1: like helmet.
Speaker 2: Oh did I already talk about Bieber on this podcast
Speaker 2: in general, I don't even know.
Speaker 3: I saw a clip.
Speaker 2: So like kid Laroi is on stage singing and then
Speaker 2: like Bieber's off to the side on the railing of
Speaker 2: the stairs to get onto the stage, but he's blacked
Speaker 2: out drunk, so he's super drunk, but he's singing voice
Speaker 2: of an angel. I am a stand forever, I am
Speaker 2: a bieberhead. Like he sounded so good, hitting every note,
Speaker 2: bent over, blackout drunk on a railing, and like the
Speaker 2: kid Laroi is like kind of laughing at him. But
Speaker 2: like even when he's singing, I forgot the words like
Speaker 2: sounds incredible.
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm a believer. Thank you, Yeah, I'm a believer.
Speaker 1: I mean I love this show. Uh, the song what
Speaker 1: is it?
Speaker 6: Love?
Speaker 3: Yourself.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a bunch I like. I like, sorry,
Speaker 1: I do too. I just kind of was like whatever,
Speaker 1: I like him.
Speaker 2: But watching this, like just someone's cell phone video of
Speaker 2: him singing like an angel.
Speaker 1: Well, you know he was found like he can play
Speaker 1: a bunch of different instruments, like I do think he
Speaker 1: was found by school because he is like a musical
Speaker 1: kind of like wonder Kid.
Speaker 3: You know, no, he is.
Speaker 2: Well, there's like a video circulating on Instagram where it's
Speaker 2: a like a Diane Sawyer type but I've never heard
Speaker 2: of her. And she's like, so people say, you're just
Speaker 2: a marketing thing, and you're just a YouTube marketing a
Speaker 2: product of marketing.
Speaker 3: What do you think? And he's just like thirteen.
Speaker 2: The comments are like, why are you beefing with a
Speaker 2: thirteen year old boy?
Speaker 3: But he goes, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's really cool that I live in this
Speaker 2: tiny town in Ontario and was able to get discovered
Speaker 2: and am now like a huge star. It gives hope
Speaker 2: to other kids that live everywhere. And then she names
Speaker 2: some other She goes, well, what about this person. He's
Speaker 2: from your town and he's a newscaster, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's Canadian.
Speaker 1: No one in Germany knows who he is. Don't you think,
Speaker 1: how are you letting a thirteen year old fucking school
Speaker 1: you so hard? Lady?
Speaker 2: And then she didn't answer it, and he goes do
Speaker 2: you think that? And like he like, yeah, he schools her,
Speaker 2: he schools her. But it's like, why are you against
Speaker 2: this child? But it's how they treated Britney Spears and
Speaker 2: all young performers for yea. Yeah, just mad for no
Speaker 2: reason at these talented young kids.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think anyone can really deny that Justin
Speaker 1: Bieber has musical talent. But if you want to not
Speaker 1: like him because of his attitude or swagger or whatever,
Speaker 1: that's you know, do you But musically he's very talented.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if you want to see this video of him drunk,
Speaker 2: I watched him maybe three four times in a row.
Speaker 3: Ooh okay, I loved it. I'll check it out so away. Wait.
Speaker 1: Wait, that's where that's where we are, that's the that's
Speaker 1: the that's the live hair check for the day.
Speaker 5: It is a swoop.
Speaker 3: Okay for a second, I was like, how did we
Speaker 3: get here? Yeah? Hair aaking.
Speaker 1: I put it in as a fully out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: Note so now back to the case. Stabler is like,
Speaker 1: Drew must have had help with this case because, like
Speaker 1: with this cover up, because there's no way that he
Speaker 1: would have been able to leave no trace of himself
Speaker 1: on this balcony, but make sure that Carmen's prints are
Speaker 1: still there. So then Finn appears out of nowhere with
Speaker 1: a mic drop and goes, yeah, here's how he did it.
Speaker 1: Guess which cop interviewed Jenny White five years ago dot
Speaker 1: dot dot. Tom Payson, the Lamberley security guy, if you remember,
Speaker 1: he was a cop at the two nine that's where
Speaker 1: the sixty one disappeared from. Fuck, these people have inside guys.
Speaker 1: So they bring in Tom Payson and he is playing dumb.
Speaker 1: Fin and Munch are laying it all out for him,
Speaker 1: doing their little Fin and Munch act that they do.
Speaker 1: They're like, here's what happened. Drew invites Carmen over to
Speaker 1: dresses a maid. They fight, he rapes her, pushes her
Speaker 1: off the balcony. Then the cover up. She has no face,
Speaker 1: she's in a maid's uniform. Why not move Anna Rivera
Speaker 1: out of town and make everyone think it's her. But
Speaker 1: then the stupid cops figure it out anyway that it's Carmen.
Speaker 1: So now they got to paint her as a slutty
Speaker 1: nut who takes her own life because of losing her
Speaker 1: rich boyfriend. Who could think of all this, someone who
Speaker 1: knows the cops the way they do things. You Tom Payson,
Speaker 1: and he goes, wow, SVU, I thought you guys were
Speaker 1: just the panty police, and he's like, but you guys
Speaker 1: are on another level in dreamland, so they're like Carmen.
Speaker 1: He's the guy's like, Carmen was a mixed up kid.
Speaker 1: She died by suicide. I looked at the I look
Speaker 1: at the evidence, you dumb bastards. This guy is so smug.
Speaker 1: He stands up like he's gonna leave, and they're like,
Speaker 1: you must have forgotten the loss since you've been off
Speaker 1: the job for so long, and fin Sis's ass right
Speaker 1: back down and he looks a lot more nervous. So
Speaker 1: now we finally get to discover where the country home
Speaker 1: is in Connecticut, and it's in Greenwich, which is very
Speaker 1: close to where I grew up. I don't really understand
Speaker 1: why you would have a country home there, but I
Speaker 1: guess it's probably a lot easier than going out to
Speaker 1: the Hampton's not as much traffic because nobody's really going there.
Speaker 1: Benson and Stable are at the Lamberley residence in Greenwich, Connecticut,
Speaker 1: and Missus Lamberley enters wearing a very rich lady scrunchy
Speaker 1: slash hair piece like I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: but her hair's pulled back with this little like a
Speaker 1: bit of flair in the hair, I would say. Her
Speaker 1: home is decorated with dozens of chairs that you would
Speaker 1: never want to sit on, and she's on her way
Speaker 1: out to another charity thing, so she doesn't have time
Speaker 1: to talk. And they're like, we need to speak to Drew,
Speaker 1: and she goes, that's not possible. He's my escort for
Speaker 1: the night. And then Drew enters in a tux and
Speaker 1: they tell him they know he was in the penthouse.
Speaker 3: Grandma's getting worked up.
Speaker 1: No, he was with us out here, tell them Drew,
Speaker 1: and he asks if there they can do this somewhere else.
Speaker 1: His grandma is not well, so then Stabler brings up
Speaker 1: Jenny White, and Grandma's like got the look of recognition
Speaker 1: on her face and she goes, I knew this would
Speaker 1: come out eventually.
Speaker 3: I told you, I told your father. He wouldn't listen.
Speaker 1: She said she thought Drew should take his punishment for
Speaker 1: hurting Jenny, and she admits that he did assault her
Speaker 1: and she wanted to protect him, so she did send
Speaker 1: him to Paris, but she insisted he get help, and
Speaker 1: she sent him to six months in a psych hospital.
Speaker 1: He was a child then, he's a grown up now.
Speaker 1: So I love how this is all the Jenny White
Speaker 1: thing is happening all just I believe out of the
Speaker 1: statute of limitations for this time because it's five years later.
Speaker 1: So I don't think they can even though they're all
Speaker 1: admitting to it now, they must all know that he's
Speaker 1: not in any danger of getting arrested for that crime.
Speaker 3: So she tells them.
Speaker 1: Give him a test. Go ahead, give Drew a lie.
Speaker 1: Detect your tests, like blah blah, blah, blah blah. And
Speaker 1: they're like, so if you think that Drew didn't kill Carmen,
Speaker 1: who did? And Drew goes Tom Payson. He was obsessed
Speaker 1: with Carmen and he wasn't in Connecticut with the rest
Speaker 1: of the family Saturday night. So they're just throwing their guy,
Speaker 1: paysin under the bus. Here cut to Huang giving drew
Speaker 1: the polygraph, and he's asking him some pretest questions about
Speaker 1: his relationship with his parents. He says, well, my mom
Speaker 1: isn't well, she has been for a while. My dad
Speaker 1: works all the time, so I guess you could say
Speaker 1: we're mutually indifferent. He plays a card trick with the
Speaker 1: kid and he's like, you have to lie to me,
Speaker 1: no matter what, even if I guess the correct card.
Speaker 3: And so he does it. He does it, He does it.
Speaker 1: The guy lies and then he shows him look, the
Speaker 1: machine clearly registers the lie. So I don't know why
Speaker 1: we always go through this charade with the light. The
Speaker 1: light detectors when they're not admissible and people can learn
Speaker 1: how to beat them, but here we are.
Speaker 3: It takes some for fun. We should organize something. I
Speaker 3: would love to take one. I would love to see it.
Speaker 3: If I could control my breath and beat it. I
Speaker 3: bet I can. Oh, I actually have taken I don't
Speaker 3: know why I pretended I did it. You haven't. You've
Speaker 3: taken one. I forgot. It just came to me.
Speaker 2: The Lucas brothers did like a fun little show at
Speaker 2: Montreal one year just for laughs, where they attached their
Speaker 2: friends to lie detectors and ask funny questions. So I
Speaker 2: did do that, but I'm not really They were just
Speaker 2: like have.
Speaker 3: You been to jail?
Speaker 1: And I was like yeah, Like like.
Speaker 3: Have you ever done that?
Speaker 1: I'm like, sure have Yeah, you had no intent him
Speaker 1: to on a comedy show. We got to try to
Speaker 1: get on there and like beat it. But what they
Speaker 1: have to ask us about a crime we really committed.
Speaker 1: So first we have to commit a crime and then
Speaker 1: we got to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or maybe secrets like I wonder, but I would
Speaker 2: love to do maybe some you know, like the Vanity
Speaker 2: fair Lie detector tests.
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting, we should, we should. Let's look into it.
Speaker 1: We'll get our staff on it. Getting that would be us.
Speaker 1: So now the test, the light detector's test really starts
Speaker 1: after the little pre questions, and he admits to raping
Speaker 1: Jenny White but denies raping or killing Carmen. So we
Speaker 1: cut to the Huang debrief after the test. He says,
Speaker 1: look at the look at the print out, drew past
Speaker 1: the polygraph.
Speaker 3: But Huang thinks he's lying.
Speaker 1: He's like, I think he used countermeasures to manipulate his
Speaker 1: body's response. He ramped up his body's response to the
Speaker 1: control questions so he could cost through the other ones.
Speaker 1: He beat the machine, and that's why he wanted to
Speaker 1: take the test so bad, because he knew that he
Speaker 1: could beat it.
Speaker 3: So I wonder who that's well, that's what they teach
Speaker 3: at private school. That's sad. They teach you polygraph beating.
Speaker 2: At college prep, all boys, rich kids schools. They got
Speaker 2: to teach them about the lighte detectors.
Speaker 1: Yes, they teach them all of the different ways that
Speaker 1: you can avoid getting arrested or having any consequences for
Speaker 1: your actions. I love that a little lighte detector class
Speaker 1: Thin and Munch roll in to say that Paysin denies
Speaker 1: murdering Carmen, but will not die and Drew, even though
Speaker 1: his whole family is just drop kicking this guy under
Speaker 1: the bus so hard. So just when they think they've
Speaker 1: got nothing, they get another magical call from CSU.
Speaker 3: This is like the.
Speaker 1: Fourth time this episode where it's like, we got nothing.
Speaker 1: Bring on the phone rings and they get some more
Speaker 1: information talking to some nerdy tech now who is different
Speaker 1: from Reuben who found some nice high end swede in
Speaker 1: the heel of Carmen's shoe. So this swede was not
Speaker 1: made in the us. It was probably made in one
Speaker 1: of the Baltic states. And if the purp has the jacket,
Speaker 1: this nerd says he can match it. So now they
Speaker 1: get into the mansion to search Drew's room. They got
Speaker 1: a drunk judge during a poker game to sign on
Speaker 1: this warrant off of a tiny bit of suede, and
Speaker 1: they're at the mansion searching Drew's room. Benson immediately finds
Speaker 1: the jacket with a heel impression on it. They did
Speaker 1: all this clean up, they didn't get rid of the
Speaker 1: jacket he was wearing with a.
Speaker 3: Full heel hole in it.
Speaker 1: They arrest Drew on the spot and as they bring
Speaker 1: him out of the as they wheel him out, Grammy
Speaker 1: looks horrified. So now we're at the top of act four.
Speaker 1: The Lamberley lawyer named Lorna Scary blows into Alex Cabot's
Speaker 1: office offering to make a deal. She goes, man two
Speaker 1: five years in a psych institution, and Cabot's like, lol,
Speaker 1: he brutally murdered someone. How about murder two twenty five
Speaker 1: years in regular prison. Scary's like, Scary, Scary, I can't,
Speaker 1: I can't do this. Scary tells them that they are
Speaker 1: going to for a not guilty by reason of mental
Speaker 1: disease or defect defense and hands over the results of
Speaker 1: Drew's psych evaluation and it finds that Drew had diminished
Speaker 1: capacity due to brutalization at the hands of his father. First,
Speaker 1: any of us are hearing of this, and Alex thinks
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. So now Huang is explaining to Cabin and
Speaker 1: Benson that this is an impressive strategy. Brutalization is part
Speaker 1: of Lanni Athen's violentization theory, which is real. I look
Speaker 1: this up. He's a criminologist who has a theory of violentization.
Speaker 1: He believes that violent environment and example are cause of
Speaker 1: all criminal acts. And stage one there's four stages. Stage
Speaker 1: one is brutalization, Stage two is bulligerency. Stage three is
Speaker 1: violent performances in stage four is virulency. But in brutalization,
Speaker 1: the individual engages in violent demeanor through observation and demonstration.
Speaker 1: This stage is divided into three types of experience violent
Speaker 1: subjugation and personally assaulted or being or being threatened, or
Speaker 1: number two personal horrification where witness they witness other assault
Speaker 1: or are threatened, or three they're violent violent code, Ching
Speaker 1: taught how to execute violent behavior. So I thought that
Speaker 1: was interesting. I'd never heard of this theory before. But
Speaker 1: according to Huang, this Lonnie Athens guy interviewed one hundred
Speaker 1: convicted violent criminals and found that they were all abused
Speaker 1: as children. They all witnessed abuse, and they were all
Speaker 1: taught to use extreme violence and stressful situations. So Cabot
Speaker 1: is like a little bit nervous. Now She's like, how
Speaker 1: am I going to fight this? And Huang goes, why
Speaker 1: don't you just remind the jury what he said about
Speaker 1: his father in the pre polygraph interview, like that the
Speaker 1: relationship was one of mutual indifference.
Speaker 3: He never mentioned anything about this.
Speaker 1: So now at the trial, Grandma Lamb Lamb is on
Speaker 1: the stand explaining that Drew's childhood was hard because excellence
Speaker 1: was expected and when he failed, he was punished by
Speaker 1: his father. His mother, Grace, tried to protect him, but
Speaker 1: she was terrified of Douglas. She turned to alcohol and
Speaker 1: that's why she's at a clinic in Bermuda. Finally we understand,
Speaker 1: like where the mother went. Drew hasn't seen her since,
Speaker 1: so she fled her child and life and is just
Speaker 1: living in Bermuda. She said Douglas would beat Drew after
Speaker 1: a flunked test or a lost game, and Scary presents
Speaker 1: an X ray of a broken arm and is like,
Speaker 1: do you remember what this is from? And she said,
Speaker 1: it's from when Drew got into a fight at a
Speaker 1: hockey game, but it's not from the fight. His father
Speaker 1: threw him down the stairs after the fight in the
Speaker 1: hockey game because you didn't win it. So the next
Speaker 1: fight he was in was so bad he had to
Speaker 1: be pulled off the other boy and he nearly killed him.
Speaker 1: So she's trying to show examples of how the father's
Speaker 1: violence is causing his violence to escalate. So now it's
Speaker 1: Cabot's turn, and she's like, you don't have a problem
Speaker 1: absolutely thrashing your son in open court, do you, And
Speaker 1: she's like, well, I fucked up with my sons, so
Speaker 1: don't mock me for trying to do better with my grandson.
Speaker 1: And then Cabot tries to present that what Drew said
Speaker 1: to Huang, but Scary jumps in and goes, that's privilege,
Speaker 1: which drink. It's the name of the episode, but it's
Speaker 1: in a different way that you thought this is about.
Speaker 1: Client privilege when I feel like this episode is more
Speaker 1: about privilege of financial privilege and societal privilege. So because
Speaker 1: she's arguing that because Huang is a psychiatrist, even though
Speaker 1: she's not his psychiatrist, with a psychiatrist, there's an expectation
Speaker 1: of privacy, and so the judge agrees and says that
Speaker 1: the mutual indifference comment is out.
Speaker 3: Anything he told Huang is out.
Speaker 1: So Cabot regroups and goes, well, did Douglas teach Drew
Speaker 1: how to rape?
Speaker 3: Too?
Speaker 1: And Grandma Lamberley says he taught Drew how to abuse women.
Speaker 1: Drew's mom will testify to that, and Cabot's like, well,
Speaker 1: she's in Bermuda, so any other examples, and she says
Speaker 1: he taught Drew to think that women could be bought.
Speaker 1: Alex says, well, so does the advertising industry, like he
Speaker 1: must he learned how to do with all of this
Speaker 1: on his own, and she says no, Douglas started taking
Speaker 1: drud to visit sex workers when he was thirteen and
Speaker 1: told him that you buy a woman and you can
Speaker 1: do anything you want with her. So that's how we
Speaker 1: end her testimony, and Cabot is at the precinct now
Speaker 1: very frustrated that the defense is clearly winning. Here, she says,
Speaker 1: if Drew was a fatherless child of a crackhead her words,
Speaker 1: not mine, we wouldn't blame them. We wouldn't blame them
Speaker 1: for using an environment defense. And Stable's like, well, I
Speaker 1: do blame his environment. He's a spoiled rich kid and
Speaker 1: his family helps him get away with it. So Stable's
Speaker 1: basically doing like a pre affluenza argument before affluenza became
Speaker 1: like a real term. We'll have to prove that he's
Speaker 1: acted violently before and without provocation. So we got to
Speaker 1: go back to the Jenny White drawing board. Okay, we go.
Speaker 1: We find Jenny White and she's loading her baby into
Speaker 1: a car with a nanny. She does not want to
Speaker 1: talk to the cops who are begging her please, like
Speaker 1: we need you. Her husband, Angus comes out and wants
Speaker 1: to know what's up, and he's like, I know all
Speaker 1: about Jenny's past.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, I'm sure he's very rich.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he like somehow vetted her and decided it
Speaker 1: was worth the risk of marrying a former sex worker
Speaker 1: when you're a wealthy Manhattan person. So now they're very happy,
Speaker 1: like Richard, you're and Julia roberts. But Olivia says to Angus,
Speaker 1: maybe you don't know the whole story, and she goes
Speaker 1: and he Angus goes, I'm her husband.
Speaker 3: Try me.
Speaker 1: So now they're both at the precinct and Jenny is
Speaker 1: spilling all the promenade details.
Speaker 3: She says Drew needed it. He bought her address, he
Speaker 3: picked up in his car. For a while, it just
Speaker 3: felt like a regular prom date.
Speaker 1: He pulled her into a room at the prom started
Speaker 1: to have sex with her, which she went along with
Speaker 1: because she was a sex worker at the time. But
Speaker 1: suddenly he slapped her and says, I'm not paying you
Speaker 1: to enjoy it, bitch. He ripped her dress, hit her
Speaker 1: again and again, she said, and raped her and a
Speaker 1: couple of the other girls at the brothels said he
Speaker 1: would also hit them back, but he was easier to handle.
Speaker 1: Then he was only thirteen or fourteen. Oof, So at
Speaker 1: the prom he was like sixteen or seventeen, And this
Speaker 1: is yikes. This kid was hitting women at the age
Speaker 1: of thirteen and fourteen. So then Stabler goes, oh, so
Speaker 1: like when his father first brought him in when he
Speaker 1: was thirteen or fourteen, and then Jenny goes, no, that
Speaker 1: was the sickest thing. His grandma would bring him in
Speaker 1: and pick his girls for him. Done, Dune, done, done,
Speaker 1: huge twist, big apps, What did I just realized?
Speaker 3: We can never sing on this podcast?
Speaker 1: But we forgot that we don't have to sing copywritten music.
Speaker 3: We can sing on We can make up songs.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, we can become composers. Correct, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: We can make up little songs. I will think of
Speaker 1: one for next time. So back at trial, Drew is
Speaker 1: on the stand. It's it's it's baby boy, tiger beats
Speaker 1: time to get on the stand. He told Carmen it
Speaker 1: was over. She got upset, ran to the balcony, screamed
Speaker 1: at him, hit her, He snapped, he saw red. He
Speaker 1: pushed her against the railing and he says he just
Speaker 1: pushed her and pushed her until she fell. He says
Speaker 1: he did not mean to kill her, and Cabot says,
Speaker 1: remind us how you broke your arm. And at that moment,
Speaker 1: Jenny walks into the courtroom with her husband and Drew
Speaker 1: looks spooked, like you could see it's like throwing him
Speaker 1: off his game.
Speaker 3: And he's like, uh, I told you my dad did it.
Speaker 1: And Cabot's like, I actually have Affi davits from the
Speaker 1: school and the teacher who brought you to the er
Speaker 1: after you broke it that said that all confirmed that
Speaker 1: you broke it while playing hockey, and they remember because
Speaker 1: they were worried that your parents would sue the school.
Speaker 1: So maybe the flip side of the privileges that people
Speaker 1: remember things about you because there were your parents are
Speaker 1: going to ruin their lives. He's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it was my dad. By the way, where the fuck
Speaker 1: is the dad? He doesn't show up to this trial
Speaker 1: where a his son is on trial and his mother
Speaker 1: is testifying that he's a fucking abuser, and he's it's
Speaker 1: all over. The whole trial is that he's this abuser.
Speaker 1: So then Cabot says, do you recognize this woman and
Speaker 1: points to Jenny White, and he says no, fully lying
Speaker 1: you can tell. So Cabot goes, well, I have her
Speaker 1: statement that you attacked and raped her without provocation. And
Speaker 1: I think Cabot may have gone a little bit too
Speaker 1: big here. She made too big of a swing because
Speaker 1: the defense of Jecks and the judge is like, watch yourself, Cabot,
Speaker 1: you got to stick to the facts of the case.
Speaker 1: You can't introduce new material at trial because I don't
Speaker 1: know that. For some reason, you're not allowed to bring
Speaker 1: up prior bad acts for some I don't really get
Speaker 1: why not, and maybe because the statute of limitations is ended,
Speaker 1: and because there was never a conviction or a trial
Speaker 1: for that. But now she asks him, who took you
Speaker 1: to Brothels? And I remind you that you're under oath
Speaker 1: and he says, my dad did. And Cabot doubles down
Speaker 1: on the question and is like, who took you to
Speaker 1: the Brothels? But in the galley, Grandma Lamberley is getting
Speaker 1: very wark worked up.
Speaker 3: She stands up, she's.
Speaker 1: Yelling that's enough, that's enough, and then she does this
Speaker 1: little old lady moan where she's like oh, and she
Speaker 1: falls down. Drew goes totally postal. He tries to attack Cabot.
Speaker 1: He goes, look, well you did, you, bitch. You're gonna
Speaker 1: pay for this. I promise you over and over again,
Speaker 1: saying you're gonna pay for this.
Speaker 3: You're gonna pay for this.
Speaker 1: So now the whole jury, the whole courtroom has seen
Speaker 1: this kid unprovoked go completely fucking crazy and sort of
Speaker 1: negate the defense that you know he had that he
Speaker 1: has to be provoked with violence. So in the final scene,
Speaker 1: Douglas is back, I guess from whatever little trip he
Speaker 1: was on, not defending himself, againt Ben's being a brutalizer.
Speaker 1: He leads Benson in to see his mother. She's in
Speaker 1: a wheelchair, and Benson's like, are you ready for jail, mama?
Speaker 1: And she's like, what on earth? And they're like, Douglas
Speaker 1: told us everything. And she looks at Douglas and goes,
Speaker 1: what have you done? And he says, I'll let you
Speaker 1: turn my son into a monster. And then she said
Speaker 1: you are nothing. She screams at him. She's like, you
Speaker 1: are nothing. I built this family. You never loved Drew
Speaker 1: like I did. I made him a man. And she
Speaker 1: keeps calling him nothing and saying you're nothing, You're nothing,
Speaker 1: as Benson leads her out in cuffs and that's dick
Speaker 1: wolf baby. That's the end of this fucked up family.
Speaker 1: So hopefully Drew goes to jail. I think we can assume, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: take them all to jail, do not passco Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: but looking forward to hearing what you've stirred up for
Speaker 1: us true crime wise, Lisa, I would love to.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: All right, I hope you thoroughly enjoyed our commercials.
Speaker 3: So this is based on two crimes.
Speaker 2: So the first one is more of like rich rich,
Speaker 2: rich family vibes, and the second one is cops and
Speaker 2: spinning women into stupid, dumb whores that deserved it, you know,
Speaker 2: so in doing a bad job. So those are the
Speaker 2: two journeys we will be going on. One you guys,
Speaker 2: you will know the person. The second one it's in Japan,
Speaker 2: so I don't think you'll know anything.
Speaker 3: And let's go.
Speaker 2: So the first case we're going to cover is the
Speaker 2: William Kennedy Smith rape allegations. And since it's the Kennedy family,
Speaker 2: I think I have to continue saying allegations and alleged
Speaker 2: because they seem litigious.
Speaker 3: Okay, So, but it was fun in some.
Speaker 2: Of the articles to see Carol Raswell, she's like on
Speaker 2: the board of this guy's foundation. So interesting, it was nice.
Speaker 2: The housewives are everywhere people, so yes, it's this Kennedy family.
Speaker 2: And so this William Kennedy Smith dude, he is the
Speaker 2: nephew of President John F. Kennedy and Senators Robert F.
Speaker 2: Kennedy and Ted Kennedy. And he's the child of former
Speaker 2: Ambassador to Ireland Jean Kennedy Smith, who is the second
Speaker 2: youngest of the nine siblings. And his father was Stephen Smith,
Speaker 2: who managed the Kennedy family's holdings up until he died.
Speaker 2: So not just financial but everything, so Stephen kept all
Speaker 2: the secrets. Jane was John's sister and YadA YadA. So
Speaker 2: he William Smith. He goes by Willie Smith. And he
Speaker 2: was accused of raping a woman he had met at
Speaker 2: a bar in Palm Beach, Florida.
Speaker 3: Was he held accountable?
Speaker 1: Hell?
Speaker 3: No, Okay, he was acquitted.
Speaker 2: So Kennedy Smith was a thirty year old medical student
Speaker 2: at Georgetown University, and he was accused of sexually assaulting
Speaker 2: a twenty nine year old Florida woman in the early
Speaker 2: hours of March thirtieth, nineteen ninety one, at the Kennedy
Speaker 2: family's Palm Beach compound. The story is that he went
Speaker 2: out the night of March twenty ninth out in Palm
Speaker 2: Beach with his uncle, Senator Ted Kennedy and cousin Patrick
Speaker 2: Kennedy on Easter weekend. So they ended up at a
Speaker 2: night's spot called au bar ubar au.
Speaker 1: Well you would say o bar, but it's because it's French,
Speaker 1: it's au yeah, o bar.
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, And that's where he met his accuser. So
Speaker 2: the woman said that he identified himself as William Smith
Speaker 2: and said, oh, this is my uncle Ted and they're partying.
Speaker 2: And then it wasn't until later that she realized, oh fuck,
Speaker 2: that's Senator Ted Kennedy. So he brought her back to
Speaker 2: the compound and they.
Speaker 1: By the way, like only rich people have compounds, Like
Speaker 1: you can be like kind of broke and have like
Speaker 1: your front house and maybe like your back farm and
Speaker 1: then maybe like your side area where like your cousin
Speaker 1: lives and no one's ever like, oh yeah the compound
Speaker 1: over on the Jennings farm, Like it's only rich people
Speaker 1: have fucking compounds. Well, yeah, how can a poor person
Speaker 1: have one? Well, because it really all a compound is
Speaker 1: is just like a bunch of buildings that your family owns.
Speaker 3: But I think other people have that kind of setup.
Speaker 3: We just don't call it that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like my big fat Greek wedding like they all
Speaker 2: have on a block or something, the.
Speaker 1: Greek compound or like you could argue that the guy
Speaker 1: for making a murderer. He lived near his parents. They
Speaker 1: all live near a trash yard. Like that's a compound.
Speaker 1: You're right, but you would never say the making of
Speaker 1: a murderer compound. Oh so yeah, like burning tires. So
Speaker 1: they went on a walk on the beach, during which
Speaker 1: time he allegedly tackled and raped her. She said she
Speaker 1: began to leave and started to walk away and was attacked.
Speaker 1: She tried to run to the pool area and that's
Speaker 1: where he physically tackles her. He held her down while
Speaker 1: he lived at her dress and pulled down her panties.
Speaker 1: She said she struggled and kept telling him no, and
Speaker 1: that after the assault, he kept telling her that he
Speaker 1: did not rape her, So she called her friends right
Speaker 1: away for help after the events. The official Palm Beach
Speaker 1: police report on March thirtieth reveals the emergency room doctors
Speaker 1: at Humana Hospital who examined the woman after the alleged attack,
Speaker 1: said that she had suffered a possible rib fracture and
Speaker 1: that she had abrasions and bruises that they reported as
Speaker 1: minor but were there now Smith is rich and smart,
Speaker 1: and he denied talking to the Palm Beach detectives.
Speaker 2: Of course, he said, lawyer lawyered up. He did not
Speaker 2: make any statements, any chats with the cops. After the
Speaker 2: report was made public, the lawyer for the accuser charge
Speaker 2: that Smith had hired private investigators to intimidate a material witness.
Speaker 2: Smith and his attorneys of course denied this. They also
Speaker 2: had nine months to come up with a story and
Speaker 2: answer for everything. So like the court case didn't happen
Speaker 2: n till December, and this happened in March. And so
Speaker 2: you know, the victim had to give five statements. Her
Speaker 2: deposition took three days and there was seven hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty pages of deposition. He never had to give a statement,
Speaker 2: never did anything, had access to it, and then had
Speaker 2: nine months to see everything that she said to come
Speaker 2: up with whatever he wanted for it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: So the rape trial.
Speaker 2: Begins December second, nineteen ninety one. December second is Britney
Speaker 2: Spears's birthday and World Aid's Day, and I'll remember that forever.
Speaker 3: So the judge of this case was Judge Mary E.
Speaker 2: Lupoh, and she barred prosecutors from presenting testimony from three
Speaker 2: other women who claimed Smith had assaulted them. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that sucks. So three other people had accused him. They
Speaker 2: were not allowed anywhere near this case. And the judge,
Speaker 2: like everyone else, was just like really into being with
Speaker 2: the Kennedys, Like she was greeting Sergeant Shreiver in her
Speaker 2: court room after being introduced to him by Smith's attorney,
Speaker 2: Roy Black, So she was like out there taking photos
Speaker 2: with part of the Kennedy family during this fucking trial.
Speaker 2: One member of the family for some reason said, don't
Speaker 2: worry about us for dinner. We have strategy sessions every
Speaker 2: night at dinner at the compound, and that was reported
Speaker 2: by Vanity Fair. Also, part of their strategy was not
Speaker 2: to appear too rich, so no limos, no chauffeurs. They
Speaker 2: arrived every day in like a truly beat up nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine Mercury station wagon who that was driven by
Speaker 2: their longtime housekeeper, so still a little rich. I mean,
Speaker 2: they didn't drive themselves, and none of the family was
Speaker 2: spotted out in Palm Beach during this time except to
Speaker 2: go to church. So they would all go to Saint
Speaker 2: Edward Roman's Catholic Church where photographers were ready to take
Speaker 2: pictures of them, and they have pictures of Smith like
Speaker 2: kneeling at prayer, but no nightlife. They didn't go out anywhere.
Speaker 2: It was just compound church court doing research for this.
Speaker 2: It also is like clear they have connections to everyone
Speaker 2: and very expensive pr This spin is wild, like it
Speaker 2: just talks so much about his foundations and all his credits,
Speaker 2: and just the way a lot of the articles were framed.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, you've been a prominent family for forty
Speaker 2: years in the States, Like it's it's glaring, or maybe
Speaker 2: it's not, but for me it was obvious. So he
Speaker 2: took the stand in his own defense and said that
Speaker 2: he had sex with the woman, but that was consensual,
Speaker 2: so the old she said yes defense. Millions of people
Speaker 2: watched this nationally, so this was a big TV event,
Speaker 2: media circus, you know, a Kennedy rapist. Even though the
Speaker 2: media circus was happening, her identity was kept secret for
Speaker 2: a really long time and millions of people only saw
Speaker 2: her as a figure behind a gray or blue electronic circle.
Speaker 2: So depending where you live, I'm sure the color was
Speaker 2: different from the incident to when she entered the courtroom
Speaker 2: nine months later. She had never made a public statement
Speaker 2: or apearance at all. The Kennedy family was never worried
Speaker 2: about the trial, and Vanity Fair reported that from the
Speaker 2: first day there was private talk about the victory party
Speaker 2: that would follow the acquittal.
Speaker 3: They were not nervous.
Speaker 2: It's no secret that prosecutors that work from the district
Speaker 2: attorney like, they're not as good as the defense team
Speaker 2: that a Kennedy could hire, and so that was a
Speaker 2: big issue in this too. So the prosecutor was Moira
Speaker 2: lash and she was a star.
Speaker 3: In her office and this is very SVU.
Speaker 2: We always say this isn't real, but she had nearly
Speaker 2: one hundred percent track record for convictions and in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty seven she was named Prosecutor of the Year.
Speaker 3: So damn yeah yeah right yeah.
Speaker 2: Smith had Roy Black and he was known in Miami
Speaker 2: legal circles as the Professor and you know, he just
Speaker 2: defends murderers and drug traffickers. So a real linel went Granger.
Speaker 2: This is That's who I'm imagining and all of this.
Speaker 2: For example, one time he defended like this is how
Speaker 2: good of a lawyer he is. One time he defended
Speaker 2: a woman who was charged of drowning her three year
Speaker 2: old son, and he succeeded in keeping the jury, like
Speaker 2: keeping the jury from the fact that her other children
Speaker 2: also drowned in a sink. Oh my god, Like he
Speaker 2: is a very good lawyer, so and then evil is
Speaker 2: a better word, yes, and then he's the shit right.
Speaker 3: So Black also had.
Speaker 2: A team of three other lawyers, so he had like
Speaker 2: a team of four lawyers. Smith was also like Black
Speaker 2: took a really low rate. So you only charged two
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars for this, and it's just
Speaker 2: to get publicity. And I guess that's like really cheap
Speaker 2: for like a Kennedy family.
Speaker 3: But don't worry. They still spent tons of money.
Speaker 2: Smith was able to hire five private investigators who worked
Speaker 2: for months digging up info on the victim, her friends
Speaker 2: that she called that night after the incident, like full
Speaker 2: on investigat.
Speaker 3: Like I don't understand how this.
Speaker 2: Is even legal or real or like, yeah, aren't you
Speaker 2: supposed to be like a quick swift trial, Like it's
Speaker 2: so fucked. Also lash like you know, she's a woman,
Speaker 2: so that adds probably to it.
Speaker 3: But very unliked.
Speaker 2: She was a very unliked, not friendly nobody was rooting
Speaker 2: for her. She was getting daily bad reviews in the
Speaker 2: newspaper and on television about her somber style, never playing
Speaker 2: it up to the jury and never deviating from her
Speaker 2: pre written questions. And they called, you know, as I said,
Speaker 2: she's a woman. They called her shrill often and casey
Speaker 2: Novak vibes.
Speaker 3: She also went after the judge.
Speaker 2: She tried to get her to recuse herself because she
Speaker 2: was prejudiced in favor of the defense. The motion was
Speaker 2: denied and it was catastrophic, like it was a big error.
Speaker 3: But she still believes that.
Speaker 2: There was prejudice and this judge shouldn't have done it
Speaker 2: because also her co counsul Ellen Roberts, Ellen Roberts husband
Speaker 2: and the judge's husband and gave litigation against one another
Speaker 2: over money.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah, you have to recuse yourself. You're
Speaker 1: like personally involved. Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: But the victim later said that she does not feel
Speaker 2: any hatred towards Lash and she didn't let her down
Speaker 2: at all. She admired her and was so proud of
Speaker 2: the work she did, and they formed a real bond
Speaker 2: and she was like everyone kept calling her like ice queen.
Speaker 2: But the night the verdict came out, she came over.
Speaker 2: We cried and hugged, and I know she did her best.
Speaker 2: She said, I strongly believe that Judge Lupo couldn't stand her.
Speaker 1: So she's taken selfies with the Kennedy so she's a
Speaker 1: different kind of person.
Speaker 3: I remember this.
Speaker 1: I remember the blue the blue bubble over the face.
Speaker 3: You do. I remember her talking with the blue bubble.
Speaker 1: Whoa yeah, because this trial was when I was like twelve,
Speaker 1: probably did.
Speaker 3: When was the trial in ninety two, ninety one, oh
Speaker 3: ninety one, I was eleven, but I remember it being on.
Speaker 2: Damn yeah. Okay, So the trial lasted ten days quick.
Speaker 2: The two sides though called forty five witnesses, and when
Speaker 2: the woman took the stand, she this is how she
Speaker 2: described things on the stand. She said that she felt
Speaker 2: perfectly safe because it was the Kennedy home. There was
Speaker 2: a senator there, so she assumed there would be really
Speaker 2: good security. And then she started weeping on the stand
Speaker 2: when she was describing the attack, and Vanity Fair reported
Speaker 2: that it did send chills through the courtroom. In quotes,
Speaker 2: she said, I thought you was going to kill me.
Speaker 2: Because she took the stand. Then Smith also took the
Speaker 2: stand and whatever. He was a very good witness to
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair said they were both good witnesses, whatever that means.
Speaker 2: So his take was very different than hers, and he
Speaker 2: framed it as like him as a passive participant. So
Speaker 2: he's like, she picks me up, she unbuttoned my pants,
Speaker 2: she massaged me.
Speaker 3: She she, she, That's what it did.
Speaker 2: But like the whole time, the victim was speaking from
Speaker 2: a place of violence, and he just talked about it
Speaker 2: like it was sex. December eleventh, the jury deliberated for
Speaker 2: seventy seven minutes.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: And it's a six member jury and that's a Florida thing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like I guess for felony cases Florida.
Speaker 3: It's six Oh okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: Honestly, like, this was so fast that the Kennedy's left
Speaker 2: court and just got to their compound as they were
Speaker 2: asked back to court. So it was so quick, and
Speaker 2: he was acquitted on all charges, which included second degree
Speaker 2: sexual battery and misdemeanor battery. Fun fact, one of the
Speaker 2: lead defense attorneys, Roy Black, who I keep talking about,
Speaker 2: ended up marrying one of the jurors. No, shut the
Speaker 2: fuck up now, So he married Lisa Leah Haller In
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, she was quoted to the Associated Press
Speaker 2: after the court case that the condition of the dress
Speaker 2: the woman wore or the night of the incident lacking
Speaker 2: tars or stains, was an important factor in her decision.
Speaker 1: What, first of all, did anybody ever consider, like what
Speaker 1: this woman's motivation would be for doing this? Because this
Speaker 1: isn't a civil trial, Like she's not trying to get
Speaker 1: money out of the Kennedy's right now.
Speaker 3: This is a criminal trial.
Speaker 1: She knows that she's gonna have to put herself through
Speaker 1: all this bullshit, that they have so much money, they're
Speaker 1: gonna dig up her whole fucking past. They're gonna go
Speaker 1: after her friends everything, Like if she unbuttoned his pants
Speaker 1: and had sex with it, Like, what is it She's
Speaker 1: so remorseful that she had drunk sex with someone that
Speaker 1: she's willing to go through in nine months of pre
Speaker 1: trial trauma.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so, what's her motivation to make
Speaker 3: this up? Oh?
Speaker 2: It's I mean, it's ridiculous, the spin, the patriarchy. I
Speaker 2: don't know, I sound like a broken record. It's a nightmare.
Speaker 2: After the verdict was read and after the judge gave
Speaker 2: a heads up before it was read that she said
Speaker 2: that there should be no public expression, like she would
Speaker 2: not tolerate any of it. But he smiled, jumped up
Speaker 2: and hugged everyone and could not stop grinning. And it's
Speaker 2: because he escaped a fifteen year sentence. And while he
Speaker 2: was smiling, four out of the six jurors wept openly
Speaker 2: as they glanced over at Smith.
Speaker 3: Why if they're weeping. They obviously believed her a little bit.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of the stuff I've read about
Speaker 2: this was like it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt,
Speaker 2: And with these cases, I guess it's just like hard
Speaker 2: to have it.
Speaker 1: It's just see and he said, she said, without like
Speaker 1: a videotape of it happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you're gonna love our next crime.
Speaker 2: So and right after he gave the statement, he ran out,
Speaker 2: like right after the verdict. He ran out, gave a statement,
Speaker 2: flashing camera lights, media waiting outside, hundreds of people chanting
Speaker 2: his name, Willie, Willie, applauding him. So one of the
Speaker 2: attorneys who brought forth the charges told reporters, So, his
Speaker 2: name is David Roth, he told reporters. According to the
Speaker 2: Washington Post, and we believe this. The jury has spoken. However,
Speaker 2: not guilty does not equate to innocent. The rape counselor
Speaker 2: who helped the accuser of the day of the incident
Speaker 2: told the Associated Press, I believed her then and I
Speaker 2: believe her today to the New York Times. In fact,
Speaker 2: at the time of the incident, police prosecutors, the rape counselors,
Speaker 2: and the doctors believed her story and she passed two
Speaker 2: polygraph tests and a voice test analysis.
Speaker 3: Roy Black afterwards went out a press tour.
Speaker 2: He's a fucking ass, he told he talked to USA
Speaker 2: today and what he said about Smith was in quotes.
Speaker 2: The jury got a look at him, they saw he
Speaker 2: was articulate, well spoken, the antithesis of a rapist, Like
Speaker 2: what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Like every rapist looks like the boogeyman, Like this is insane.
Speaker 2: It's it's insane, But it's the nineties, and you know,
Speaker 2: we just covered a thing where like a lesbian's kid
Speaker 2: was taken from her, you know, like this isn't bullshit.
Speaker 1: It's just wild that the nineties we were alive in
Speaker 1: the nineties, Like, it's just so weird that the nineties
Speaker 1: were so bad, like and they're they're very recent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so he kept talking about the woman, and
Speaker 2: he was referring to her as troubled, disturbed, mentally unstable,
Speaker 2: and it's like you already won.
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Like I don't get it, And yeah, the rich just
Speaker 2: stay rich. And guess what the defense applied for the
Speaker 2: state of Florida to assume some of Smith's legal fees,
Speaker 2: like he can't afford it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I hope all those people that were outside
Speaker 1: yelling Willy Willy willy are excited that their tax payer
Speaker 1: monies are going towards this alleged rapist.
Speaker 3: So the woman.
Speaker 2: Quoted to the Post said, despite the enormous price I
Speaker 2: have endured, I do not for one moment regret the
Speaker 2: course of action I have pursued.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: It's just like she didn't stand to gain really anything
Speaker 1: from this. And I'm I mean, I'm glad that she
Speaker 1: probably made it a little bit easier for the next
Speaker 1: person to take a case like this to trial. But
Speaker 1: if she wasn't reliable, if she was crazy and unstable
Speaker 1: and all these things that this guy's saying about her,
Speaker 1: the prosecution would not have opted to prosecute. They would
Speaker 1: have been like, your case is not reliable, like Barbara
Speaker 1: and Cabot and them are plenty of times like I
Speaker 1: can't win this case. I'm not taking this trial. You know,
Speaker 1: that's such a good point. So they took it to trial. More,
Speaker 1: this person with a one hundred percent conviction rate took
Speaker 1: it to trial because she knew that this was a
Speaker 1: good witness and this was not that there are good
Speaker 1: or bad victims, but that this was a solid case.
Speaker 2: You know, No, that is a very good point. She
Speaker 2: did later reveal herself. So her name is Patricia Bowman.
Speaker 2: She's residing in Jupiter, Florida, twenty miles north of Palm Beats,
Speaker 2: and she came from like money, not obviously Kennedy money
Speaker 2: in any way.
Speaker 3: But it's not like she.
Speaker 2: Like you said, was in it to get like a
Speaker 2: cash scrab or anything like that. Her stepdad, Misster O'Neil's
Speaker 2: quoted to The Times, this is not about money, this
Speaker 2: is about justice. Her mom was an executive, Her stepdad
Speaker 2: had a fortune of ten point three million dollars. Her
Speaker 2: family lived on an exclusive golf course, and the fought
Speaker 2: like the father of her child. She's a single mom
Speaker 2: owned some lumber family, like he was from a lumber family.
Speaker 2: So she had a good life. She had money, She
Speaker 2: had a fun life in Florida, and she did get
Speaker 2: a lot of speeding tickets, she did. But yeah, she
Speaker 2: loved to drink and like hang out and let loose
Speaker 2: and go to night life spots. And Vanity Fair asked
Speaker 2: her one of the most asked questions about you is
Speaker 2: what was she doing in a bar at three o'clock
Speaker 2: in the morning? And she answers, yes, I was out
Speaker 2: late with friends, but so was he. The issue of
Speaker 2: what I was doing at three in the morning has
Speaker 2: nothing to do with what happened for me from that man.
Speaker 1: That's literally me every single night of my twenties and
Speaker 1: half of my thirties. Like what being out til three am?
Speaker 1: You're out til three am all the time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I never thought of it like she just
Speaker 2: said it so concisely, where it's like, what was she doing?
Speaker 3: And why is it ever? Like what is he doing?
Speaker 5: We?
Speaker 2: Yeah, why he's probably looking for people to rape? Why
Speaker 2: is that never turned around? Like I'd never seen it
Speaker 2: so clearly to me at least, So Vanity Fair went
Speaker 2: to speak to Patricia Bowman in Jupiter, Florida, three days
Speaker 2: after the verdict. She was asked why she decided to
Speaker 2: go public after being so private for you know, the
Speaker 2: whole time. She said she only agreed to two interviews,
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair and Diane swear Class Act.
Speaker 3: She responded that she had.
Speaker 2: To because mister Black was saying she was nuts and
Speaker 2: using her name on TV, so like she had to
Speaker 2: come forward and be like, I'm not a lunatic.
Speaker 3: Hello, and she's a little bit of a Benson.
Speaker 2: And she said, in quote to Vanity Fair, besides, I
Speaker 2: felt the need to get out there and urge victims
Speaker 2: to prosecute because it's part of the healing process. The
Speaker 2: reporter said that during Bowman's time on the stand, a
Speaker 2: woman reporter sitting next to them whispered in their ear.
Speaker 2: If I were ever raped, I'd never report it. So
Speaker 2: it's like the opposite. Like we were talking about how
Speaker 2: like this might encourage people to come forward, but this
Speaker 2: actually does the opposite when you like you have so
Speaker 2: much to lose. I think about doctor Blasi Ford all
Speaker 2: the time, Yeah, constantly, Like I think about her all
Speaker 2: the time, and that's part of it, probably why they
Speaker 2: treat these women so bad to make sure that the
Speaker 2: rest of you shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: She was asked how she felt when the verdict was read,
Speaker 2: and she said this in quotes. I was having so
Speaker 2: many flashbacks when he had me in that little room
Speaker 2: and I told him that he raped me, and he
Speaker 2: looked at me the calmest, smuggest most arrogant man, and
Speaker 2: he said, no one will believe you. And the jury
Speaker 2: came in and said not guilty. And I was right
Speaker 2: back in that room with the man telling me no
Speaker 2: one would believe me.
Speaker 1: It's like she didn't invent that story. Like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: that's just like people.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Because also.
Speaker 2: If I got to go back to the Kennedy compound,
Speaker 2: I would try to like have a good time, Like
Speaker 2: I would try to get an invite back, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Ye you, I don't know why you would be like
Speaker 1: And it just does make sense, Yeah, that she would
Speaker 1: that she would completely fabricate this whole thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this makes sense to me.
Speaker 2: He's a doctor, he's living a rich ass life like
Speaker 2: nothing ever happened to him, but rape accusations come pretty
Speaker 2: regularly in his life. So CBS News reported that he
Speaker 2: was being sued in a civil court by a former
Speaker 2: personal assistant who alleged that he raped her in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety nine. He said these claims were outrageous, untrue, and
Speaker 2: without merit, and it's like, I mean, they're not that outrageous.
Speaker 2: He blames that his family and personal history is the
Speaker 2: reason he is vulnerable to these kinds of allegations. The
Speaker 2: suit was filed by then twenty eight year old Audra
Speaker 2: Sulias and alleges that after a night of drinking in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, he forced her out of a cabin
Speaker 2: into his home, where he sexually assaulted her. She was
Speaker 2: working as a personal assistant for Smith at the Center
Speaker 2: for International Rehabilitation, which is a group led by Smith
Speaker 2: that helps landmine victims. She claims that afterwards Smith left
Speaker 2: her apologetic voicemail messages, but still this resulted in a
Speaker 2: relationship that lasted several months, but that the relationship further
Speaker 2: victimized her. And that's according to NBC News and also
Speaker 2: like the boss employee relationship to add on top of it,
Speaker 2: Cook County, My County what Cook County Circuit Judge William
Speaker 2: Maddox ruled that those two phone messages unfortunately did not
Speaker 2: meet the legal standard of extreme and outrageous conduct to
Speaker 2: justify the suit. Her lawyer was pissed and was quoted
Speaker 2: by the Chicago Tribune saying that Smith has got seven
Speaker 2: women under gag orders right now. He does have power
Speaker 2: and money to stop these things. In fall of two
Speaker 2: thousand and three, two other women filed complaints with the
Speaker 2: Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, claiming repeated sexual harassment and unwanted
Speaker 2: sexual advances. He of course claimed these were just disgruntled
Speaker 2: employees who failed to get promotions and yeah, so he's
Speaker 2: just like has charities and as a doctor and is
Speaker 2: a Kennedy and that's it.
Speaker 3: It's fucked.
Speaker 1: It's so fucked because if you do happen to get
Speaker 1: to court with one of these guys then and then
Speaker 1: they get off, like then they just use the high
Speaker 1: profile case as something to hide behind. Oh well, she's
Speaker 1: coming after me now because that last woman accused me
Speaker 1: and now she thinks she's going to get famous from
Speaker 1: it and she's gonna get money from it and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. So it's like letting these guys off like
Speaker 1: the one time, it almost gives them more. You know,
Speaker 1: it's hard enough to get somebody this rich and powerful
Speaker 1: on the stand and into court anyway, and then it
Speaker 1: just gives him extra ammunition. I feel like against future
Speaker 1: assault like victims, you know, because he can just they'll
Speaker 1: just say, well, this is what I get now because
Speaker 1: of my last big.
Speaker 2: Trial and your family killed Marilyn Monroe. Like, I don't
Speaker 2: trust any of you. Go fuck all of you. You
Speaker 2: deserve all of them except Carol Livesville right. Well, and
Speaker 2: but she married in that's so different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they also who's the guy.
Speaker 2: That didn't they like, drunk driving accident kill a person.
Speaker 3: Isn't that one of the Kennedys.
Speaker 1: Too, Yeah, one of them, the Ted Kennedy, the senator
Speaker 1: that was with his son that night got into a
Speaker 1: car accident and left a woman in the car, and
Speaker 1: I think he I think she died. Let me, oh
Speaker 1: my god, let me look up Ted Kennedy's. Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: she drowned. The woman drowned. Ted Kennedy, he is, he
Speaker 1: drove his car off a bridge and like went to
Speaker 1: go save himself and let this woman drown in the car.
Speaker 1: It's called it was that chap equittic, So it's always
Speaker 1: called chap equittic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fuck the Kennedy's.
Speaker 1: All right, let's go no offense if any of our
Speaker 1: listeners are Kennedy's, but I doubt it.
Speaker 3: So this next.
Speaker 2: Case is the shiory E new case, and this is
Speaker 2: a case about her twenty year old twenty one year old. Okay,
Speaker 2: I do have to preface you will be more mad
Speaker 2: listening to this than you've ever been mad. And this
Speaker 2: is saying a lot considering everything that we've uncovered through
Speaker 2: our research. My god, Okay, it is so appalling that
Speaker 2: it seems fake, that it cannot be real.
Speaker 3: It is truly insane.
Speaker 2: So twenty year old twenty one year old college student
Speaker 2: was stabbed to death and fucking broad daylight outside near Tokyo.
Speaker 2: So basically what happened was she caught the wrong guy's
Speaker 2: attention one day and nobody would help her and she
Speaker 2: lost her life. The stabbing happened a little before one
Speaker 2: pm on the afternoon of October twenty sixth, nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: She was stabbed in the chest while entering a train
Speaker 2: station at jr Akigawa. The town is called Sayatama, north
Speaker 2: of Tokyo where this all happened, and she'd bled to death.
Speaker 2: On the way to being rushed to the hospital, she
Speaker 2: was attacked by three men who were paid off by
Speaker 2: her former boyfriend and brother. So his brother, a manager
Speaker 2: from their brothel, and some associates were happy to accept
Speaker 2: money for murder. So the killers that were hired were
Speaker 2: Yoshifumi Kabato, Akira Kawakami, and Yoshitaka two.
Speaker 3: They accepted eighteen.
Speaker 2: Million yen or one hundred and seventy five thousand US
Speaker 2: to kill Shiori. They watched her for a few months,
Speaker 2: figuring out her schedule to and from school, the common
Speaker 2: areas she visited. And so when Shiori was at the
Speaker 2: train station, she was grabbing her bike and was about
Speaker 2: to head to university when she was approached, stabbed in
Speaker 2: her side and then fatally stabbed in her heart. And
Speaker 2: like I said, you know, people came to help, called
Speaker 2: for help, but she died on the way to the hospital.
Speaker 2: So who was this boyfriend and how did this like
Speaker 2: lead to such a horrific murder in the daytime.
Speaker 3: This dude's name.
Speaker 2: Was Kazu Kazuhitu Komatsu, and she met him at a
Speaker 2: game center, which is like an arcade her and her
Speaker 2: friends were trying to put coins into a photo booth machine,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't working, and twenty six year old Komatsu
Speaker 2: came over and asked if he could help her and
Speaker 2: started to flirt. They went to karaoke. They exchanged numbers.
Speaker 2: Truly like a situation that could happen to anyone. You
Speaker 2: just like, meet someone cute and you vibe, so they messaged.
Speaker 2: They went on some dates, but then things got weird.
Speaker 2: After dating him briefly, after a few dates, she like.
Speaker 2: He began to emotionally abuse her while also buying her
Speaker 2: super lavish gifts, and she tried to reject the gifts,
Speaker 2: but he would make scenes in public and force her
Speaker 2: to accept the gifts. She also realized he was twenty six,
Speaker 2: but he told her he was twenty three, and he
Speaker 2: gave her a fake name, so name was false, age
Speaker 2: was false. He wouldn't let her dump him, and became
Speaker 2: increasingly physically and mentally abusive, and then she became extra
Speaker 2: scared because she started to realize, like fuck, he could
Speaker 2: be connected to bad people because he always had cash,
Speaker 2: there were luxury cars, and when she tried to dump him,
Speaker 2: he told her that she would have to pay him
Speaker 2: back for all the money he spent on her, and
Speaker 2: he would force her to work in a sex shop
Speaker 2: and ruin her family. So suddenly she's like, oh fuck,
Speaker 2: Like what have I gone into? He then contacted a
Speaker 2: credit bureau to investigate her father's company. She had continued
Speaker 2: to try to break up with him. He would not
Speaker 2: accept it and became more and more abusive, started calling
Speaker 2: her home making threats to her and her family. After
Speaker 2: three months of this behavior, she finally went to the
Speaker 2: police after Kamatsu and his friends forced their way into
Speaker 2: her home, threatened her, and she recorded the incident. This
Speaker 2: was on June fourteenth. She filed a police report and
Speaker 2: submitted her recording, but the cops said she had no case.
Speaker 2: She went back with her family the next day to
Speaker 2: file a complaint, and again the police refused to act.
Speaker 3: They felt this was.
Speaker 2: Her fault by hurting the man's feelings and by cutting
Speaker 2: off their relationship and exploiting him by accepting his gifts.
Speaker 2: So on June twenty first, she took all the gifts
Speaker 2: and money she received from him and mailed it back
Speaker 2: to him in hopes that that would stop him. July thirteenth,
Speaker 2: him his brother and their friends made posters of her face,
Speaker 2: calling her a gold digger, slut prostitute with all of
Speaker 2: her personal information, and posted it on telephone polls around
Speaker 2: her neighborhood and university. The police still refused to interfere
Speaker 2: My got July twenty ninth, it continues, she files a
Speaker 2: complaint against him because she was sexually assaulted by her
Speaker 2: by the brother and the friends, and she the rape
Speaker 2: was taped, and finally the police accepted the complaint but
Speaker 2: told her they were busy so it might take time
Speaker 2: to follow up. So no help, no contact from police
Speaker 2: till August twenty third, and then what happened was twelve
Speaker 2: hundred letters of false information and defaming comments were sent
Speaker 2: to the office, the branch office, and the head office
Speaker 2: of Schiori's father's company. He took all the letters to
Speaker 2: the police, hoping they would finally stop him, but the
Speaker 2: detective laughed in his face and said, why don't you
Speaker 2: just ignore the letters?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm getting very very sweaty with anger.
Speaker 2: A few weeks after this, the police went to their house,
Speaker 2: but it was to convince her to drop the complaint
Speaker 2: and not help in any way. But the family refused,
Speaker 2: so the cops then falsified the report and changed the
Speaker 2: complaint about an official complaint into just the report of
Speaker 2: an incident, therefore not requiring any official outcome.
Speaker 3: So this led to her brutal murder.
Speaker 2: So this crime took place four months after Enu had
Speaker 2: complained to police that she was stalked by her boyfriend
Speaker 2: after she broke up, the cops ignored her police for help,
Speaker 2: and then she was fucking murdered. After she was dead,
Speaker 2: the cops went on a smear campaign and portrayed her
Speaker 2: as a gold digging slut and implied that the attack
Speaker 2: was her fault. Legit, the cops covered up the details
Speaker 2: and blamed the victim, and then the media ran with
Speaker 2: all the fake news and slandered Shiori's character. And this
Speaker 2: was to protect the incompetence of the police and that
Speaker 2: it was their faults and they didn't want anyone to
Speaker 2: know that. They said that she was a sex worker
Speaker 2: and just a money hungry slut who deserved what she got.
Speaker 2: Then there was one hero journalist that turned the case
Speaker 2: in investigation in narrative around. The journalist's name is Kiyoshi Shimitsu,
Speaker 2: and they reported the truth about the crime, and finally
Speaker 2: the cops acted. There was a huge expose in Focus magazine.
Speaker 2: They arrest the hired murderer, Kamatsu's brother, and his accomplices
Speaker 2: in December nineteen ninety nine. The brother is serving a
Speaker 2: life sentence, and he got the harshest sentence of all
Speaker 2: of them, which I think is wild because he didn't
Speaker 2: do the stabbing, but due to his involvement in the
Speaker 2: constant harassment of her life and the planning of the murderer,
Speaker 2: he got life. The guy who did the stabbing got
Speaker 2: eighteen years in prison, and the other two accomplices were
Speaker 2: each given fifteen years. The boyfriend ended up taking his
Speaker 2: own life. His body was found December twenty seventh, frozen
Speaker 2: in a lake, and he did leave a note. There
Speaker 2: was an internal investigation that showed that three officers altered
Speaker 2: a criminal complaint filed by her into a simple disposition
Speaker 2: so they wouldn't have to pursue the case. I guess
Speaker 2: to keep the crime rate low, the police try to
Speaker 2: get parties to resolve issues on their own rather than
Speaker 2: file official complaints. But the Japanese cops were jailed. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: so the cops were dismissed and found guilty. Two were
Speaker 2: given eighteen month prison sentences and suspended for three years.
Speaker 2: They should just never be able to work again. And
Speaker 2: then the third got a fourteen month sentence and was
Speaker 2: suspended for three years as well. The dad, of course
Speaker 2: thought the verdict was too lenient, and I agree with him.
Speaker 2: The crime actually resulted in Japan's Anti Stalking Act that
Speaker 2: passed in November two thousand. Under the act, two kinds
Speaker 2: of behavior prohibited, so it's pursuit and stalking. Pursuit is
Speaker 2: any act pressuring another person to go out or in
Speaker 2: revenge for being rejected. Stalking is repeated acts that caused
Speaker 2: the victim to feel endangered. There was also a revision
Speaker 2: to the act in January twenty seventeen to include cyberstalking
Speaker 2: and online harassment. And it was because another woman got
Speaker 2: stabbed after the cops s ignored her. Please for help,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, why.
Speaker 3: Can't they just listen and do their job?
Speaker 2: So pop singer Mayu Tumita was stabbed more than twenty
Speaker 2: times by a male fan in May twenty sixteen. He
Speaker 2: had posted more than three hundred public messages to her
Speaker 2: like threatening her life, and the cops declined to act
Speaker 2: because it was social media and not that serious. She
Speaker 2: did survive the stabbing, thank god. Yeah, so hopefully more
Speaker 2: laws will continue to happen since cops are failures, and
Speaker 2: it still appears that only about ten percent of complaints
Speaker 2: filed actually results in official police action.
Speaker 3: Oh God, that one is tough.
Speaker 2: It is tough, and obviously, like I'm not in Japan
Speaker 2: and do not know much about the Japanese. I mean,
Speaker 2: I was in a kabuki play, but I don't know
Speaker 2: much about the Japanese culture. Like the sources I was using,
Speaker 2: and I hope they're all credible and good and I
Speaker 2: did justice to this story.
Speaker 1: We do have some listening in Japan because people wrote
Speaker 1: us back after another ca that we the one about
Speaker 1: the young girl that was assaulted by the the American
Speaker 1: officers over in Japan. A bunch of people wrote into
Speaker 1: us on Instagram. So if you live in Japan, let
Speaker 1: us know if this case is still talked about.
Speaker 3: Or like you were around when this was happening, and so.
Speaker 2: You know, with research, you just kind of see what
Speaker 2: what articles you get first. So when I first saw it,
Speaker 2: it was like these these cops got in trouble and
Speaker 2: went to jail.
Speaker 3: So I was like, oh, fuck, yeah, Japan knows what's up.
Speaker 1: And then it was like oh uh. And then I
Speaker 1: was reading comments because I am a sicko to a
Speaker 1: lot of the articles, and they, like so many comments
Speaker 1: are still victim blaming. They're like he was part he
Speaker 1: was part of the yakuza. That's on you, you dumb bitch,
Speaker 1: Like you should have known not to date, Like it's
Speaker 1: like this and like the comments were doing the thing
Speaker 1: that had caused her death. And I guess cops are
Speaker 1: the same everywhere, like they don't want yeah.
Speaker 3: But like in the USA, this happen.
Speaker 1: Shit happens all the time, and the cops were like,
Speaker 1: how could we have known? And they don't go to jail.
Speaker 1: So at least Japan sent these guys to jail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But and then I don't, like, I don't know
Speaker 2: if they're better at stuff or not, because it still
Speaker 2: seems like they don't want their percentages going down.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it's yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's just like I thought to conclude that one
Speaker 2: because there are no other episodes based on it, and
Speaker 2: it's I think it's like an important case to talk
Speaker 2: about but also just like the smearing and like the
Speaker 2: cops kind of not doing anything about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we're gonna be right back with a
Speaker 1: great interview, guys, to cleanse your palate from all this darkness.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, guys. Our guest today is a TV legend.
Speaker 1: She's probably best known for her role as the matriarch
Speaker 1: Olivia Walton in the Waltons Award winning role play, and
Speaker 1: you can currently see her portray Jeffrey Dahmer's grandmother Katherine
Speaker 1: Dahmer on Netflix's Dahmer and you know her today as
Speaker 1: the stuffy, snobby escort to sex workers Granny Candae Lammerley. Guys,
Speaker 1: please enjoy our chat with the legendary Michael Learned.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we love this episode. We always love when there's
Speaker 2: super rich people on us.
Speaker 5: You're pearls for being hethens.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we love a super rich lady turned villain,
Speaker 1: and they do that on this show a lot. And
Speaker 1: you're like a classic episode of this, like you're.
Speaker 5: To play actually, but it was a pretty sordid episode.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I was gonna ask you, like, I mean,
Speaker 1: you've played all different kinds of parts, is it is
Speaker 1: it extra fun to play a villain? I mean, I
Speaker 1: think from the Waltons you were sort of like a
Speaker 1: wholesome character, right, You weren't a villainous at all.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 5: I used to fight with some Earl Hamda, the creator
Speaker 5: of the show, and say, give her, make her make
Speaker 5: a mistake once in a while. Everybody's going to hate
Speaker 5: her if she's just so wonderful every minute. So he'd say,
Speaker 5: like what, and I'd say, well, have her scold the
Speaker 5: wrong child, have her make a mistake, whatever, but give
Speaker 5: her something, so he would he'd work at it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it was a collaborative set.
Speaker 5: Yes, it was wonderful. Yeah, we were a little arrogant.
Speaker 5: I think sometimes we would say, oh, my character would
Speaker 5: never say that.
Speaker 2: You know, well, you won a bunch of Emmys for that.
Speaker 2: Do you look back on those nights fondly?
Speaker 5: Oh? Yeah, it's very exciting, and especially the first one
Speaker 5: because I had no idea I was going to win,
Speaker 5: so I was just enjoying the whole. It was very
Speaker 5: new for my kids and me, and they sent a
Speaker 5: limo and my gosh, my son and my son with
Speaker 5: my date. So we here we are in the limo.
Speaker 5: We drove around the neighborhood, just waving at all the kids,
Speaker 5: and then, you know, then we went and we were
Speaker 5: just having a good time. And when they mentioned my name,
Speaker 5: I can still remember my son's eyes were like plates
Speaker 5: and mine worth two. I'm sure because it was a shock,
Speaker 5: and I'm surprised I was even able to say a word.
Speaker 5: I was so shocked and scared. It was wonderful, though,
Speaker 5: exciting and calling home and my kids were all excited
Speaker 5: at home. They were you know, it was great.
Speaker 3: Wow. How old was your son at the time.
Speaker 5: I think he was maybe fifteen you he was around
Speaker 5: fourteen or fifteen.
Speaker 1: Did any of your kids like follow in your footsteps
Speaker 1: into the acting world or the niceness?
Speaker 6: My youngest son did a couple of Omen one and
Speaker 6: two ooh, and he's just never wanted to be an actor,
Speaker 6: but he's in advertising, so we sort of in the business,
Speaker 6: but not as an actor.
Speaker 2: So with this episode, this might be too specific of
Speaker 2: a question since this was twenty years ago, but do
Speaker 2: you remember we're shooting this episode in the penthouse with
Speaker 2: the beautiful views?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: No, well it looked Do you remember any of your outfits?
Speaker 1: You really had a lot of gorgeous, like rich Upper
Speaker 1: east Side lady outfits.
Speaker 5: No, I my husband, but bless him, my wonderful husband.
Speaker 5: Read a synopsis of it just to help me refresh
Speaker 5: myself as to what the show was about. I mean,
Speaker 5: I sort of generally know what about Yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: so long ago, twenty years ago. So it wasn't my
Speaker 5: fondest role. But sometimes it is a little fun to
Speaker 5: play somebody, to try to find in a character that
Speaker 5: you don't really respect or like, but to try to
Speaker 5: find where their thinking is or what motivates them as
Speaker 5: opposed to something you're familiar with yourself. It's kind of
Speaker 5: that little journey. Is interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've heard that from a lot of We've interviewed
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are that usually play sort
Speaker 1: of comedians or nice guys, nice gals, but then they
Speaker 1: come on this show and they've got this sort of
Speaker 1: like evil streak, and that's interesting. A lot of them
Speaker 1: have expressed the same thought that, you know, finding like
Speaker 1: your commonality with this person you don't like is is interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, one actor we talked to he didn't because he
Speaker 2: was so in the character he didn't realize how bad
Speaker 2: he really was.
Speaker 3: And then when he watched it. He was like, oh really, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you had huge moments. You had a big
Speaker 2: fainting scene in the courtroom. You're also dragged out arrested
Speaker 2: in handcuffs in a wheelchair by the detectives.
Speaker 3: You had like really fun moments.
Speaker 5: So I don't remember any I remember being arrested and
Speaker 5: kind of resisting. That's about how I can remember, to
Speaker 5: tell you the truth.
Speaker 2: I mean, you've had such an incredible career where you know,
Speaker 2: on so many shows, I can imagine sometimes it blurs together.
Speaker 5: I have been there, very lucky.
Speaker 1: Having been in this business for like, you know, fifty
Speaker 1: years or so, do you find are there things? I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously things have changed. Are there changes that you think
Speaker 1: are for the better? Are there things you wish hadn't changed?
Speaker 5: I've always found, you know, Hollywood has a reputation, but
Speaker 5: I've never been in that kind of Hollywood groove. I
Speaker 5: had my kids, so it was a job. I'd go
Speaker 5: do my job and come home to do my job
Speaker 5: as a mom. So I've never been part of the
Speaker 5: quote scene here. But it's been very good to me
Speaker 5: and I'm very grateful for it. So I'm glad. I'm
Speaker 5: not part of the scene. Frankly, that scene, if you
Speaker 5: know what I mean. Yeah, it's been very good to me.
Speaker 5: I'm so lucky. I came down here in a little
Speaker 5: VW bug. I stayed at a motel which is no
Speaker 5: longer there, but I stayed there for twelve bucks a night.
Speaker 5: I had a raggedy and dol and a bottle of bourbon.
Speaker 5: And I didn't know what. I had no idea that
Speaker 5: this was all going to happen. It was like my
Speaker 5: friend said, it's people like you who keep people like
Speaker 5: me here. You know. It was one of those you know,
Speaker 5: God's handis on your shoulder.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, I love that.
Speaker 1: It was a Volkswagen bug you and then you were
Speaker 1: just in this. You were just in Dahmer on Netflix,
Speaker 1: which was like one of Netflix's biggest hits of the year.
Speaker 5: Yes, I was, and that was kind of fun too.
Speaker 5: He's a lovely guy, Evan Peters, lovely person and a
Speaker 5: very good actor. And our scenes were just Granny loves
Speaker 5: her grandson and his No, how could you not know
Speaker 5: your grandson is chopping up buddies in your basement? I
Speaker 5: find that a little mark swallow. But apparently she was
Speaker 5: in real denial, I guess no.
Speaker 3: And did you enjoy working with Ryan Murphy?
Speaker 5: I didn't see much of him, but I do think
Speaker 5: he's a genius.
Speaker 2: And Kara is actually from Connecticut. Did you grow up
Speaker 2: on a farm in Connecticut?
Speaker 5: I did. It was a small farm. It was twenty
Speaker 5: one acres, and I melt three goats every morning and
Speaker 5: every night. And I cleaned the rabbit hutches and fed
Speaker 5: the rabbits and fed the chickens. I didn't clean out
Speaker 5: the chicken hutches, but I did the rabbit hutches. And
Speaker 5: I fed the pigs, and we had two pigs. We
Speaker 5: had two horses. I didn't do the horses. They scared me,
Speaker 5: but I did do the goats. And I had a
Speaker 5: little kid of my own. Her sister had somehow strangled
Speaker 5: in the hay rack, and so she was I was convinced.
Speaker 5: She was crying, and I said to my father, she's
Speaker 5: crying because her little sister died. I want to have her.
Speaker 5: And I already said, yes, you can, but you're going
Speaker 5: to have to warn her. So that's why I was
Speaker 5: doing all those chores. I wasn't being beaten. I'd also
Speaker 5: stole some money out of his pockets to buy candy
Speaker 5: all the kids at school. Oh my gosh, I had
Speaker 5: to pay him back. So yeah, and it was wonderful
Speaker 5: because I hated going up at night. It scared the
Speaker 5: heck out of me. But once I got to the
Speaker 5: barn and somehow turned the light on, I felt safe.
Speaker 5: It's the weirdest thing, Like those animals who are going
Speaker 5: to protect me from the boogie man? I don't think so.
Speaker 3: Somehow getting to.
Speaker 5: The bar and turning the light on, feeling the animals,
Speaker 5: the warmth of the animals and the smell which was
Speaker 5: pungent because we had a buck in with the doze
Speaker 5: and they give off a really strong odor. But I
Speaker 5: didn't mind. I liked it.
Speaker 3: Where was the farm in Kennticut?
Speaker 5: In Connecticut was West Norwalk, Oh, which is sort of
Speaker 5: near near Westport and Garrett.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I grew up in u Canaan.
Speaker 5: Oh you did in u Canaan. I used to go
Speaker 5: to ballet school in ukana Oh. Really, it's really pretty.
Speaker 5: We're lucky, aren't we?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And I'm also the oldest of six children, are
Speaker 3: you really? Yeah?
Speaker 5: A mix of boys and girls.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, two girls, four boys. Oh okay, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I know you're You're the eldest of six girls, right,
Speaker 1: all girls?
Speaker 5: Yes, and now I have a half brother named Tarquin. Oh,
Speaker 5: my father married again, and so I have a half
Speaker 5: brother named tark. I may have a brother.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you still have animals in your life?
Speaker 5: Not at the moment. I have a cat and our
Speaker 5: dog just passed away two ago. Yeah, I still miss her.
Speaker 5: I miss her terribly, and I'm working on my husband
Speaker 5: to try to get another dog. I'm going to die
Speaker 5: and then he'll have to take care of her.
Speaker 2: Or just have someone gift you a dog. So then
Speaker 2: like tell someone to just bring it and then there's nothing.
Speaker 5: All over the plates dropping there. So I'm sure something's
Speaker 5: going to turn up on the doorspet sooner or later.
Speaker 2: And are you still looking to do more work? Like,
Speaker 2: are you ready for more TV? After Dahmer?
Speaker 5: I love working?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: So yeah, working keeps me alive.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Is there a character that you haven't played that you'd
Speaker 2: like to still play?
Speaker 5: I can't think of one. A serial killer? Maybe? Oh no,
Speaker 5: I haven't. No. I just whatever comes along. I try
Speaker 5: to find my truth in it and bring that whatever
Speaker 5: the character is. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So you like being on a set?
Speaker 5: I do. It's for the most part, I've never had
Speaker 5: any unpleasant experience, And for the most part, it's like
Speaker 5: you just meet another family, and it's very intense a bond,
Speaker 5: very intense bonding for the time that you're shooting or
Speaker 5: the time that you're working together. And some friends remain
Speaker 5: friends and some you don't ever see again. But it's
Speaker 5: a very intense experience.
Speaker 3: When you walk onto a set.
Speaker 2: Are there ever where you're like, Oh, today's going to
Speaker 2: be a mess.
Speaker 5: Yes, of course they're going to be a mess. It's
Speaker 5: more like I'm a mess. I had one day it's
Speaker 5: the only time it's ever happened to me in my life,
Speaker 5: where I just went blank and they had to send
Speaker 5: me home. It was mortifying. They were very nice about it,
Speaker 5: and it never happened again. But for some reason that
Speaker 5: particular day, I think I hadn't worked in a while,
Speaker 5: and I was so happy to be on a set
Speaker 5: that my brain just went off into the ether. I
Speaker 5: don't know where it went. And they were very kind
Speaker 5: and they they sent me home and mortified, of course
Speaker 5: I was. And then from that time on there was
Speaker 5: no problem. But it's never happened to me, and it
Speaker 5: was just mortifying.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I can't believe they sent you home. I'm
Speaker 3: against that.
Speaker 5: Well, they didn't do it in a nasty way. I
Speaker 5: was just gone. They did the right thing actually, and
Speaker 5: from that time and there was no problem. But they
Speaker 5: had to reschedule. I mean, it's a real scramble for
Speaker 5: them if an actor falls down or something happen or
Speaker 5: goes up or whatever. But I not get my brain working,
Speaker 5: and luckily from then on I was fine. But it
Speaker 5: was horrible. It was just horrible.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are outside of the Waltons or where you were,
Speaker 2: you know, or the nurse where you worked a long time.
Speaker 2: Are there any sets or shows that you've guessed it
Speaker 2: on that you really had a great time, or that
Speaker 2: you were surprised how much fun you had, or any
Speaker 2: just favorite kind of moments.
Speaker 5: I had fun on Scrubs. Oh, she was a great character,
Speaker 5: and they were very nice, you know, again, very professional.
Speaker 5: You don't become bosom buddies or anything, but they were
Speaker 5: very professional, very welcoming, and I had fun playing that character.
Speaker 5: It usually has to do with the character i'm playing,
Speaker 5: and she was a wonderful character.
Speaker 3: Who did you play on scrabs. What was the character
Speaker 3: I played?
Speaker 5: I can't remember her name, but I played a woman
Speaker 5: who was dying of cancer. But the writing was so
Speaker 5: fabulous that she had so much personality and joy of
Speaker 5: living that she was just a fun character to play.
Speaker 3: Amazing fun show. I gotta bitch that I want to
Speaker 3: watch it.
Speaker 1: And then our other classic question we like to ask
Speaker 1: is what are your go to craft service snacks.
Speaker 3: When you're on set?
Speaker 5: Anything sweet, I guess, but I didn't really like.
Speaker 4: To eat while I was working, so yeah, I mean,
Speaker 4: it always touched me that the craft service go out
Speaker 4: of their way to try to make the actors happy,
Speaker 4: and so so.
Speaker 5: As well the props who were in charge of the
Speaker 5: food for the Weltons. When we were all sitting around
Speaker 5: the table, that was grows. That was truly gross. If
Speaker 5: you ever watched the show, you'll see that I never
Speaker 5: ever ate. I fiddled with food on my plate, or
Speaker 5: I lifted a fork almost to my mouth, but I
Speaker 5: never ate because everything would get spooned out on the plates,
Speaker 5: all of our plates, and then we would get spooned
Speaker 5: back into the serving bowl.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, spooned out on.
Speaker 5: The plates again, and you know, by the sixtieth take.
Speaker 5: There was no way I was going to put that
Speaker 5: into my mouth. Oh. I never ate on the Waltons
Speaker 5: in eight years. I never actually put food in my mouth. Ralph,
Speaker 5: on the other hand, would eat with relish and chip
Speaker 5: up and swallow and enjoy. Is hmmm not me. No.
Speaker 3: Do you still do events for autographs and stuff?
Speaker 1: I do?
Speaker 5: Yeah, wow, I think this is the last one. Though.
Speaker 5: It wears me out because you're trying very hard to
Speaker 5: be present in every moment that you make a connection
Speaker 5: with somebody. So I try to be buried there, you know,
Speaker 5: if you will look into somebody's eyes and really appreciate them.
Speaker 5: And I remember people. I remember their faces sometimes when
Speaker 5: I when I do it a second time a few
Speaker 5: years later, I don't remember their names necessarily, but I
Speaker 5: remember their faces. And it's very moving because most people
Speaker 5: remember me from The Waltons and they loved that character
Speaker 5: so much that they bring that love to me, and
Speaker 5: it's it's wonderful.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. Great. Yeah, thank you so much, Michael for
Speaker 3: taking the time to talk to us, and we hope
Speaker 3: we keep seeing you on our screens too.
Speaker 5: From your mouth, God's he its.
Speaker 3: Michael Learning loved her.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I just love I love some of
Speaker 1: the I love it. I love it all legend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you remember this? No, I'm not gonna that's it.
Speaker 1: She's an eye fund, she has the moment, she has everything.
Speaker 3: And she does love an animal.
Speaker 1: That was I actually stopped watching Dahmer at the beginning,
Speaker 1: but maybe I should dip back into uh see her role.
Speaker 1: I'd like to see her be the be the grandma.
Speaker 2: So I've recently I've been getting a lot of shark
Speaker 2: orca stuff just because I've been you know, the boy
Speaker 2: got eaten by.
Speaker 3: A shark on the cruise. Oh no, I know about
Speaker 3: the orcas attacking the boats.
Speaker 2: Well that's fun, but I guess orcas don't eat people,
Speaker 2: which is kind of exciting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know the funny thing about them being
Speaker 1: called killer whales because like they don't kill people.
Speaker 2: Well this is great because I thought we got to
Speaker 2: be more scared of them than anyone. And now I'm like,
Speaker 2: put me in coach, Yeah, let.
Speaker 3: Me pat can I want to swim with? When can
Speaker 3: I go free? Willie? Let's do it.
Speaker 2: I want to ride an orca so bad, you know.
Speaker 2: So there was like, you know, kids graduated high school.
Speaker 2: They're all eighteen. They go on a trip and they're
Speaker 2: like at a midnight cruise, like a booze little cruise,
Speaker 2: and on tape, the boys dare the other one of
Speaker 2: the boys to jump into the shark infested waters at night.
Speaker 3: So and that's when I heard sharks from more Wild.
Speaker 2: So anyways, the boy jumps in and then he's scared.
Speaker 2: They throw in a bowie, but he's swimming away from
Speaker 2: the bowie and everyone's like the booye. And then there's
Speaker 2: a shadowy figure to the left and it looks like
Speaker 2: a shark, and they searched for him for days and
Speaker 2: the shark, I think the shot.
Speaker 1: I thought sharks didn't like attack unless they smelled blood,
Speaker 1: Like I thought there had to be blood in the water.
Speaker 2: No, I mean that is that's like sexy to them,
Speaker 2: Like when they smell blood, they love it, but they
Speaker 2: don't need.
Speaker 1: Blood to eat. Oh god, but now I'm getting horrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we were on this road trip, so we
Speaker 2: watched the shark thing and that we talked about that
Speaker 2: for a really long time and just like sharks crocodiles.
Speaker 2: But I guess Anderson Cooper, my friend, was telling me
Speaker 2: did a segment where he swam with the crocodiles underwater
Speaker 2: because they don't attack underwater. But I didn't know Anderson
Speaker 2: Cooper was such a badass swimming. I didn't know Anderson
Speaker 2: Cooper was doing nature shit. Yeah wild, so whatever. So
Speaker 2: I'm getting all of the shark stuff now I can't
Speaker 2: get enough. And then I love these shark experts who
Speaker 2: are not scared of me, Like if a shark sums
Speaker 2: by you Papa Mona's nose, and it's like, we're not
Speaker 2: gonna be calm okay, like your calm advice is not
Speaker 2: for us, Like are you fucking kidding me? But also,
Speaker 2: if you're listening, please don't dare your friends to jump
Speaker 2: into Jesus ested waters. Because then one of our friends
Speaker 2: was telling us that there was like a story wherever
Speaker 2: people were on this like boat again, like an adventure boat,
Speaker 2: tourist boat, and they were like, do not jump in,
Speaker 2: these are crocodile infested waters. And two girls jumped in
Speaker 2: and then everyone watched them get eaten by crocodiles.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, in a million years, I would be
Speaker 1: like not even near the edge. If I knew that
Speaker 1: I was in sharker or croc infested waters.
Speaker 3: No, but I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1: There's all these like like seals and little dolphins and
Speaker 1: or because it's just swim by boats, and it's like,
Speaker 1: maybe I need to marry a marine biologist.
Speaker 3: I need to get out on the walk, go to Hawaii.
Speaker 3: When we went to Hawaii, there were a million dolphins
Speaker 3: next to our boat. You could just okay, yeah, that's
Speaker 3: I could do that too. Yeah. Well, you know, being
Speaker 3: privilege rich people luck, I was.
Speaker 1: Gonna my segue was gonna be speaking of shark infested waters.
Speaker 3: Let's get back to the Upper East.
Speaker 1: Side of Manhattan, where people let their fucking kids get
Speaker 1: away with anything. I mean, we're going to do another
Speaker 1: case about this, I'm sure. But like when I was
Speaker 1: growing up, there was this kid named Alex Kelly in
Speaker 1: the town next to mine who committed all, like committed
Speaker 1: a rape and then his parents like let him escape
Speaker 1: to Switzerland and supported him while he did that. And
Speaker 1: so like, I've just been knowing about cases like privilege
Speaker 1: my whole life because everybody just covers for their fucking
Speaker 1: rich children, and that this is just another example of it.
Speaker 1: The Kennedy's, Damn they really know how to cover for
Speaker 1: their kids too.
Speaker 3: Money power, police all evil. Yeah yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2: Not either, or I came up with a good either
Speaker 2: or Okay, do I ready to ask you this why
Speaker 2: I'm living in a haze.
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: But would you rather marry a police officer or a marine?
Speaker 3: Oh? God, Oh, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's like a real that's a tough one. That's a
Speaker 1: tough one. That's a tough one. I mean, my brother's
Speaker 1: in the army and now it's like it doesn't really
Speaker 1: involve his life very much. So I guess marine because
Speaker 1: that's not like life long like a cop, that's your job,
Speaker 1: that's forever until you retire. Marine, it's like could be
Speaker 1: just but I know that there's some guy on Summerhouse
Speaker 1: Martha's Vineyard that's a bad marine. Right.
Speaker 3: Oh, he's just a dork.
Speaker 1: Oh I thought he's a guy that was like, isn't
Speaker 1: there a guy that's like controlling his wife really badly?
Speaker 2: It's a marine Summerhouse Martha's Vineyard. Yes, yes, my bad.
Speaker 2: I was thinking of the original. And he's a chiller marine.
Speaker 2: He just has no gamer, he's just boring. No, the
Speaker 2: summer House, Martha's Vineyard Marine. That's what made me flip
Speaker 2: out with Silas he is disgusting, controlling, an asshole. I
Speaker 2: hate him, but his wife basically it's like a COVID
Speaker 2: relationship and now they're out of COVID and he wants
Speaker 2: to control her. But like she used to be a
Speaker 2: party girl and like she's a fucking oh she used
Speaker 2: to work at Playboy. Like he is awful, but she
Speaker 2: is not better, Like she sucks, and she keeps just
Speaker 2: being like, well, now I'm married, so my friendships are
Speaker 2: different and people need to get used to me because
Speaker 2: I'm a wife now and things are different. And her
Speaker 2: relationship means nothing until you have a ring, and she's
Speaker 2: just so in it. But it's like she's crying at
Speaker 2: the table because she hates her life with him, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she.
Speaker 2: Goes to the girl who's like the hottest that everyone
Speaker 2: wants to fuck, who like is incredible, and she's just like,
Speaker 2: I just feel bad that you don't have somebody, And
Speaker 2: it's like no one wants to be with your guy.
Speaker 2: Because at one point to the hot cool girl Jordan,
Speaker 2: he goes, I don't want you hanging out with my
Speaker 2: wife because you're a bad influence and you're a bad girl,
Speaker 2: and you kept her out till three in.
Speaker 3: The morning, and I need to keep my wife safe.
Speaker 2: And she goes, your wife isn't an autonomous person should
Speaker 2: go home whenever, And why would you think that me,
Speaker 2: as a single person, doesn't care about my own safety.
Speaker 2: And you're controlling and I didn't realize your wife has
Speaker 2: a curfew and he goes, she doesn't have a curfew.
Speaker 2: I just need her home by two, and it's like,
Speaker 2: so you do have a curfew for your fucking life.
Speaker 3: This is all about an hour.
Speaker 1: This is all about one hour of being over come
Speaker 1: on no and so herey fuck really loudly, and so
Speaker 1: now it's an issue because everyone's like, you need to
Speaker 1: stop fucking so loud, like the whole house hears you.
Speaker 1: And so they're trying to fuck Quiet, and he goes,
Speaker 1: I don't want to fuck you Quiet.
Speaker 3: I don't like that.
Speaker 2: And I can't have anyone else here, my woman moaned,
Speaker 2: So we're just not going to be fucking now. And
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, you can't fuck Quiet because it's like
Speaker 2: he needs to hear the most.
Speaker 3: He's just like a controlling psychopath.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that kind of ties into the controlling psychopath
Speaker 1: who killed poor Schnori Eno in Japan. And today's so like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, this leads into what would sister Peg do.
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we type point you
Speaker 1: guys to like a resource or a website, a book,
Speaker 1: a podcast episode something to give you more info about
Speaker 1: what we talked about in today's episode. And I thought
Speaker 1: that the story her story was so sad and like
Speaker 1: that the police wouldn't listen to her when she was
Speaker 1: being fully stalked and treated like in a very controlling relationship.
Speaker 3: And I think there's a lot of I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of signs of stalking
Speaker 1: that people don't necessarily understand, like unwanted gifts, letters, text
Speaker 1: damages like damaging your property, stuff that like you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, he just got mad or whatever. Like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of specifics to stalking that I feel
Speaker 1: like are good to know. So I wanted to point
Speaker 1: everybody to the Victim Connect resource center, and they have
Speaker 1: an article that is all about stock and it details
Speaker 1: all the signs what you can do if you're a victim,
Speaker 1: like how to document everything? And I think it's like
Speaker 1: really important if you feel like you or someone in
Speaker 1: your life is in a relationship that feels controlling and
Speaker 1: could lead to something like that, or are just fully
Speaker 1: being stocked by someone that they're not even in a
Speaker 1: relationship with. So you can find more out at VictimConnect
Speaker 1: dot org. And the link to this article is going
Speaker 1: to be in our show notes and has always saved
Speaker 1: on our Instagram highlight called WWSPD two. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for that. Everyone needs to take stocking more seriously.
Speaker 1: Fucking assholes, because it's a cake that woman needs to
Speaker 1: be fucking dead before they do anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, I just listen.
Speaker 2: You want another fucked up episode, join us next week
Speaker 2: October Surprise, Season fifteen, episode six. We're obsessed with all
Speaker 2: of you. Thanks for listening. Give us a a nice
Speaker 2: little review. If you got the time killing some time
Speaker 2: in the back of a new.
Speaker 1: Why not come see us live and we'll talk to
Speaker 1: you guys very soon.
Speaker 3: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's messed up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: That's Messed Uppod at gmail dot.
Speaker 2: Com, follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up
Speaker 2: Pod and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow
Speaker 2: us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kac O'Brien, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 1: gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody
Speaker 1: at Exactly Right Media Take the dime