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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. A shocking confession in the case

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Speaker 1: of the four missing men in Bucks County. Cosmo DeNardo

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Speaker 1: says he kills them all. What do you have to

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Speaker 1: say anything? That the four men have been missing since

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Speaker 1: last week? Cosmo Denardo's defense attorney says that his client

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Speaker 1: admitted his guilt and told investigators where they can find

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Speaker 1: the bodies. Mr DeNardo confessed to the district Attorney. The

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Speaker 1: d A promised him the death penalty would be off

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Speaker 1: the table despite confessing the killing and burning the bodies

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Speaker 1: of four young men. Did he act alone? We're hearing

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Speaker 1: this morning there is a second person of interest. The

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Speaker 1: facts become even murkier as we continue to learn about

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Speaker 1: the disappearance and likely deaths of four young Bucks County boys.

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Speaker 1: As I said, scrubbed in Sunshine, one on the Dean's

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Speaker 1: list at Loyola, He and three other friends go missing,

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Speaker 1: and now we learn likely dead at the hands of

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Speaker 1: a pot dealing schizophrenic. Now we understand that the four

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Speaker 1: boys were killed, the killer using a pig roaster to

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Speaker 1: burn the bodies. That's the latest out of Bucks County.

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Speaker 1: I mean it. See Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. We are also learning that

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Speaker 1: the local district attorney has agreed to take the death

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Speaker 1: penalty off the table. This as one of the boys

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Speaker 1: sweet hearts, rides a heart breaking goodbye to him, saying

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Speaker 1: You'll never know how much I love you. And could

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Speaker 1: it be true? You can kill four people, put their

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Speaker 1: bodies in a pig roaster right over them while they're

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Speaker 1: still alive with a backho and you don't get the

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Speaker 1: death penalty. You don't even try for the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like I'm Alice in Wonderland.

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Speaker 1: Something's upside down. Straight out to Jamie Stover with w

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Speaker 1: f m z t V. Jamie, first of all, what

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Speaker 1: do we know? How did a pig roaster a pig

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Speaker 1: p i g roaster? What is that and what does

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Speaker 1: that have to do with the death of these young boys.

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Speaker 1: So the pig roaster is apparently what the man you're

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Speaker 1: talking about, Cosmo di Narno, told investigators is what he

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Speaker 1: used to try to get rid of the body bodies

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Speaker 1: after he confessed to killing these men. It was apparently

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Speaker 1: an oil well type of device on their property that

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Speaker 1: they turned into a cooker and and then burned the

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Speaker 1: bodies in this what he called a pig roaster. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Also to Jamie stble W fm z TV, who is

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Speaker 1: the second killer? Is it a cousin of Cosmo Denordo?

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Speaker 1: So that is that is the term that he is

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Speaker 1: using to describe the co conspirator in this. He called

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Speaker 1: him a cousin. What's interesting though, is we're still not

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Speaker 1: really entirely sure if they're actually family. Speaking to one

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Speaker 1: of the prosecutors on the case on Friday, said that

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Speaker 1: they didn't know if that was an art term they

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Speaker 1: were using to describe their relationship. Um, but they did

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Speaker 1: put it in the court documents. So that is what

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Speaker 1: they're referring. Um to Shawn Kratz as as his partner

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Speaker 1: in crime and his uh, his consin We are told

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Speaker 1: to Joe's Goot Morgan, death investigator and instructor at Jacksonville

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Speaker 1: State University. We understand that evening he meets up with

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Speaker 1: Mayo and Sturgis, DiNardo shoots Ao. Sturge just then, seeing

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Speaker 1: what's going down, tries to run for it. DeNardo shoots

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Speaker 1: him until he runs out of ammunition. This is like

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Speaker 1: he thinks he's in a movie. Then he drives over Mayo,

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Speaker 1: who's likely still alive, with a back hou. We understand

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Speaker 1: he basically crushes Mayo with the backhoe, then uses that

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Speaker 1: same backh to pick up the bodies and carry them

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Speaker 1: and drop them into the so called pig roaster, add

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Speaker 1: gasoline and set it on fire there, then dumped twelve

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Speaker 1: feet down into a common grave. The remains of Patrick

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Speaker 1: were recovered from a separate location. That's what we know

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Speaker 1: right now. Joseph Scott Morgan, what what do you make

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Speaker 1: of that account? I'm kind of taking a back Let's

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Speaker 1: go back to what you said in the beginning. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: you know the death penalty is off the table at

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Speaker 1: this point, are you kidding me? I mean, based upon

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Speaker 1: your background and what you know about prosecuting cases like this,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about serious aggravating circumstances here that you know

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Speaker 1: just it's smacks of death penalty. Because if this kid

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Speaker 1: was still alive and he runs over him with a

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Speaker 1: bacco um, that's a torturous, torturous death that's gonna come

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Speaker 1: out in the pathology findings. Um, we'll find out it's

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Speaker 1: these crushing injuries that he has if in fact, he

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Speaker 1: does have them, if there is some type of anti

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Speaker 1: mortem event, that is, was he crushed while he was

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Speaker 1: still alive, did he suffer And again that's an aggravating circumstance.

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Speaker 1: Now he takes these bodies, piles them into this pig

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Speaker 1: roaster together, sets the bodies on fire. Now, the upside

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Speaker 1: with this is that the bodies are contained in this area.

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Speaker 1: So from an evidentially standpoint, you have them all together. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we'll be able to trace the celerant if he did

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Speaker 1: use some which I can only imagine that he did,

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Speaker 1: back to a location where he purchased that. The ideas

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Speaker 1: to try to put everything into his hand, into the

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Speaker 1: hands of his accomplice as well, the bullets, if they're

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Speaker 1: still in the bodies, which I would imagine they probably

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Speaker 1: will be, will be contained in this area as well.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine. These bodies are too far gone at

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Speaker 1: this point. But everything is contained and so that's kind

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Speaker 1: of a saving grace. But this is just a horrific

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Speaker 1: set of circumstances. Yeah, Jamie Stover w f m Z TV.

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Speaker 1: What about the other bodies, So three of the bodies

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Speaker 1: were in that pig roaster, that we talked about earlier,

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Speaker 1: and then kind of going back to the the death

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Speaker 1: penaltying off the off the table. Uh. The district attorney

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Speaker 1: said that because of that confession, because of that agreement

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Speaker 1: and deal that he need with Cosmo DeNardo, they were

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Speaker 1: able to find the fourth body, which was if you

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Speaker 1: look at the timeline and how they're laying this out

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Speaker 1: in records, would be the first victim who would have

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Speaker 1: showed up to Donardo's family farm on a Wednesday, two

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Speaker 1: days before the other men went missing. And they said

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Speaker 1: they would have never been able to find that body

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Speaker 1: had it not been for the confession that they got

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Speaker 1: straight from Cosbo Tonardo. In fact, in one of his

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Speaker 1: news conferences, the district attorney said that when they were

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Speaker 1: going to this other location on the property where they

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Speaker 1: eventually found his body, that he felt sick because of

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Speaker 1: how far away it was from these other three men

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Speaker 1: um that they had discovered in the ground. So it's

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Speaker 1: the d a's belief then, and I'm paraphrasing, he would

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Speaker 1: never have found the fourth victim's body had he not

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Speaker 1: cut the deal. Jamie correct. That's yes, that's that's essentially

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Speaker 1: what he said in his news conference after this all

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Speaker 1: came to light last week. Well, this is my concern,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you right now, just got Morgan. We are

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Speaker 1: to see them dragging the victims through the mud, trying

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Speaker 1: to claim right or wrong that they were buying the

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Speaker 1: boys were buying pot, all right, That has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with the fact that they were murdered. That's what

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned about. A mass murder and now trying to

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Speaker 1: sling mud and the victims. I don't like it. Number

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Speaker 1: one and number two, I see this shaping up as

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Speaker 1: a mental defense somewhere along the line. I guarantee you

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Speaker 1: DeNardo is not gonna wanted to go down for life

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Speaker 1: behind bars. And then you got the cousin. What are

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Speaker 1: we gonna do with him? Give him twenty and let

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Speaker 1: him walk out in ten years. Uh. I don't like

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Speaker 1: where this is heading at all. All the media is

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Speaker 1: calling him schizophrenic. What about the fact he's got the

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Speaker 1: wherewithal to sell pot, to meet up with people to

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Speaker 1: sell pot at him. He has a history with the

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Speaker 1: law thirty as they say, euphemistically, brushes with the law,

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Speaker 1: no arrests. I mean, if he can lie, kill and

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Speaker 1: hide a body, I don't think he's legally insane. Let's

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Speaker 1: think about this. This is higher level thinking that's going

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Speaker 1: on here, Nancy. Uh, this is not like this is

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Speaker 1: These are not the actions of somebody that is out

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Speaker 1: of control of their faculties. Here, you've got a person

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Speaker 1: that has thought this out to drag these people out here,

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Speaker 1: attract them out here, and then kill each one of

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Speaker 1: these people. And not only that, he went to great

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Speaker 1: links in order to do this. He dug a twelve

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Speaker 1: ft deep ditch. Uh, he entered into a uh into

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know whatever what else to call

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Speaker 1: it other than a conspiracy with this other person to

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Speaker 1: facilitate their deaths. Uh, put them into this so called

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Speaker 1: pig roaster, then try to dispose the bodies basically setting

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Speaker 1: them on fire and then burying them on top of it.

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Speaker 1: And in addition to that, they showed up with weapons

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Speaker 1: to this thing. This is not something that was just

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Speaker 1: done kind of hair hair scare them or shot from

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Speaker 1: the hip. This is something that required thought and higher

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Speaker 1: level thinking. I think that this is gonna be a

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Speaker 1: real hard sell if you're if if if the pross

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Speaker 1: Earth that defense is looking to paint this guy as

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Speaker 1: a complete lunatic. Well, what about the co defendant Kratz,

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Speaker 1: What about him, Jamie, what is he looking at? Because

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Speaker 1: it's my understanding, Uh, he DiNardo conspired with Crats to

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Speaker 1: rob pinocchi are O, and then Crats is the one

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Speaker 1: that actually shot pinocchi are O. So Cosmo DeNardo is

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Speaker 1: painting that shooting and only that one of the of

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Speaker 1: the four killings directly on his cousin, while his cousin, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, according to the court documents, while his cousin

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Speaker 1: does say that he was there when three of these

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Speaker 1: killings took place and was aware of the of the burial,

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Speaker 1: he does not step up and take ownership for actually

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Speaker 1: doing the killing. Um. So I think moving forward, that's

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Speaker 1: going to be obviously a huge descripancy and it will

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Speaker 1: be interesting to see how that plays in court on

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Speaker 1: on on whether or not they actually can can tie

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Speaker 1: it the killings to uh, any one of the specific

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Speaker 1: of the of the specific what Jamie, You're right, because

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Speaker 1: they're pointing the fingers at each other. But the reality

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Speaker 1: is it doesn't matter. It's one for all and all

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Speaker 1: for one under the law. Even if DeNardo had shot

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Speaker 1: them all, if Kritz had conspired for this to go down,

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Speaker 1: and even didn't intend to shooting to occur. It was

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Speaker 1: the commission of a felony and a death occurred. So

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Speaker 1: there you have it, and Chrits is gonna be hard

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Speaker 1: pressed to say he didn't know what was going on.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Joe's got Morgan, you're the death investigator. After

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Speaker 1: the back code attack, then we hear that the two

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Speaker 1: DiNardo and his cousin doused the bodies of these innocent boys,

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Speaker 1: doused the boys inside a pig roaster with gasoline and

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Speaker 1: try to burn the bodies of That's highly likely the

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Speaker 1: bodies were burned. That's really hard to do, to burn

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Speaker 1: a human body beyond identification. Joe Scott, it's very very difficult. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people that have never been around

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Speaker 1: uh cremines as we refer to them, and having burned bodies. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it takes an extended period of time. It takes a

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Speaker 1: steady heat source in order to facilitate this. That is

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Speaker 1: UH in some of these cases that I've worked in

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Speaker 1: both New Orleans and Atlanta over the course of my career. UH.

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Speaker 1: If people try to get rid of bodies with fire,

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Speaker 1: it has to be a sustained fire. That is an

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Speaker 1: area where you can burn the body for sometimes up

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Speaker 1: to forty eight hours extended where everything is gone uh

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Speaker 1: and in intense heat. Uh. These bodies will not be

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Speaker 1: completely destroyed. However, however, they will be destroyed to the

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Speaker 1: point where they're unrecognizable except visa v probably dental records.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine and quite possible not believe this. You've

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Speaker 1: got an honor student at Loyola. You've got one of

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Speaker 1: these kids that likes to sit around the house and

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Speaker 1: play the guitar and his family's home. They're dead, They're shot,

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Speaker 1: they're run down with a back code. They're daubs with

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Speaker 1: gasoline and try to burn them. Their remains in a

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Speaker 1: pig roaster and buried on a corn farm. And they're

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Speaker 1: not getting the death penalty. I mean, I can't even

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Speaker 1: imagine it. I mean, Joe scot, you know how much

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Speaker 1: you love your son. You think these parents didn't love

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Speaker 1: their boys just as much as you and I do? Oh,

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Speaker 1: dear Lord, and have and these boys your boy just

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Speaker 1: turned sixteen, right, these are just two years older than him.

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Speaker 1: I know, it's heartbreaking thing about it. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've been I've been working on this case the entire

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Speaker 1: week listening to all of these stories and every little

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Speaker 1: piece that comes out, it just absolutely drives me to

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Speaker 1: tears even further. And where we're Denardo's parents, Why is

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Speaker 1: he out with a gun for Pete's sake? And why

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Speaker 1: why does he have thirty thirty so called brushes with

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Speaker 1: the law over this period of time? Has anyone tried

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Speaker 1: to interdict this guy over the period of time? What

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Speaker 1: I had heard that money, Yeah, it is money, and

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Speaker 1: and he has been pushed down the line and shuffled

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Speaker 1: off to other people over the period of time. And

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Speaker 1: I have to say this is a failure on the

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Speaker 1: part of the mental health system in my estimation. If

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Speaker 1: the sty hey, hey hey, before you start taking a

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Speaker 1: swing in the mental health system, the mental health system

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Speaker 1: did not kill these four boys, all right, DeNardo did

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Speaker 1: and his inky cousin craps. So they're going down. But

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Speaker 1: no matter what they do, they're not going to get

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Speaker 1: the death penalty. Jamie Stover or w f m Z TV,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator and instructor at Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 1: thank you for bringing us the latest out of Bucks

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Speaker 1: County to oxygen the new network for crying. My name

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Speaker 1: is Kelly Sigler. I was a prosecutor for over twenty years.

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Speaker 1: The creator of Law and Order comes to hit true

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Speaker 1: crime series called Justice. There are so many cold cases

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Speaker 1: out there that still need to be solved. Every Saturday

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Speaker 1: followed Kelly, and she takes real cases from cold to close.

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Speaker 1: But you will always see on called Justice is real

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Speaker 1: to get the guilty person put away. There's not a

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Speaker 1: better feeding in the whole world if you're a law

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Speaker 1: enforcement Called Justice returns to July eight seven, Central and Oxygen,

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Speaker 1: the new network for crime. We now had across the

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Speaker 1: country where in just a few days, actually seventy two

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Speaker 1: hours from now, a double killer could walk free. Repeat,

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Speaker 1: a double killer could walk free. The two victims were

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Speaker 1: found on a bloody crime scene. The female victim head

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Speaker 1: remained on her body only by the thin skin on

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Speaker 1: the back of her spine. She was, by all intents

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Speaker 1: and purposes, decapitated in her driveway, lying there and a

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Speaker 1: little black dress in a pool of blood. Her friend,

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Speaker 1: a young man with his life before him, also brutally

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Speaker 1: stabbed dead. But the killer walked free. Of course, you

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Speaker 1: know by now I'm referring to or inenthal James Simpson,

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Speaker 1: who walked free on a double murder of Nicole Brown

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Speaker 1: and Ron Goldman. For most of the country, there's never

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Speaker 1: been any doubt that Simpson committed double murder, and it

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Speaker 1: was only many years later when, again, thinking he was

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Speaker 1: above the law, goes in busts into a location where

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Speaker 1: sports memorabilia is being sold, with a gang of thugs

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Speaker 1: with him his flunkeys, guns the works and takes away memorabilia.

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Speaker 1: He insists as he is well, he went down for that,

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Speaker 1: and he's been sitting and love like see I ever since.

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Speaker 1: But that may all change in seventy two hours this Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, this Wednesday, Arenthal James Simpson up for parole

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Speaker 1: and joining me. In addition to, for instance, instructor at

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan is a

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Speaker 1: special guest joining us. Cheryl Kane, the author of a

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Speaker 1: hot new book on the subject O j. Simpson The Killer,

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Speaker 1: a minute by minute account of the homicides of Nicole Brown,

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Speaker 1: Simpson and Ron Goldman, available on Amazon. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm completely fascinated, Cheryl Kane. A thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us, but be for the way you detail the

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Speaker 1: hours immediately following that bloody double homicide till Simpson makes

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Speaker 1: it to his alibi where he claims he's flying out

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Speaker 1: of town that night. Why did you feel compelled to

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Speaker 1: write this book? Well, we were. This is all about

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Speaker 1: the upcoming parole hearing. We're hoping this book will keep O. J.

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Speaker 1: Simpson and Jail. I was so impressed with Detective Pembrooks

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Speaker 1: four hundred plus age manuscript that he did independently um

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Speaker 1: over the course of years. I put everything on hold

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Speaker 1: to complete this book. It's about the night of the murders.

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Speaker 1: What happened in those three hours Cheryl Ron Goldman and

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Speaker 1: Nicole Brand Simpson were brutally murdered by one person. O. J. Simpson.

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Speaker 1: If I could read a page, page eighty five, this

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Speaker 1: is chilling. Lying on the sidewalk, he could feel his

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Speaker 1: own loss of blood. He moved his left hand back

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Speaker 1: and forth in acute pain and a feudal attempt to

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Speaker 1: keep going long enough to find help. His fingers pushed

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Speaker 1: the pool of blood from his neck to the top

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Speaker 1: of his head and back alongside his neck again. His

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Speaker 1: blood formed the silhouette of his face on the sidewalk

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Speaker 1: ten thirty five pm, ron Goldman again desperately tried to

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Speaker 1: struggle to his feet. He lost his balance and fell

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Speaker 1: over to the right side of the sidewalk. He was

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Speaker 1: now lying on the right side of his face, with

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Speaker 1: the blood still flowing from the knife wound on the

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Speaker 1: left side of his neck, leaving a twelve inch stream

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Speaker 1: of blood now running down the sidewalk. He fought to

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Speaker 1: push his trembling body up to his hands and knees.

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Speaker 1: Once in the kneeling position. On his knees, he grabbed

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Speaker 1: the left side of his neck with his right hand,

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Speaker 1: trying to slow the brute bleeding. He then became aware

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Speaker 1: of Nicoll's dog barking loudly at the intersection of Dorothy

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Speaker 1: and Bundy. Instead of crawling over to the large palm

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Speaker 1: tree to support his efforts to get to his feet,

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Speaker 1: Ron Goldman leaned toward the Lily of the Valley the

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Speaker 1: nile plants, now ready to stagger down the sidewalk to

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Speaker 1: Nicoll's dog. Still holding the left side of his neck

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Speaker 1: with his right hand, he lifted his right foot off

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Speaker 1: the ground and planted it on the sidewalk by the

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Speaker 1: Lily of the nile plants. Hoping to stagger down the

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Speaker 1: sidewalk towards the dog. He tried to steady himself in

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Speaker 1: a kneeling position. Before he got to his feet, a

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Speaker 1: large drop of this blood dripped between his fingers and

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Speaker 1: landed on the sidewalk. The bleeding continued, leaving several large

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Speaker 1: drops of run Goldman's blood on the sidewalk by the

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Speaker 1: lily of the nile plant. I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: can even take it, Cheryl to the thinking imagining Ron

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Speaker 1: Goldman trying to stop the bleeding in his neck. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how severe We know, Joe Scott Morgan that Simpson nearly

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Speaker 1: other than the skin at the back of her neck,

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Speaker 1: cut the head off of his wife, the mother of

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Speaker 1: his children, Nicole Brown. But what was the major injury

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Speaker 1: to Ron Goldman. His wounds were not as immediate as

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Speaker 1: as Nicole's were. You know, Nicole was stabbed multiple times

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Speaker 1: in the chest, obviously in her neck and uh and

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Speaker 1: uh not just stabbed in the neck, but her throat

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Speaker 1: was slashed uh down to the point where it went

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Speaker 1: through all of the soft tissue. As you've you know,

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Speaker 1: already pointed out with Ron's he had he had fatal wounds,

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Speaker 1: but they weren't immediately fatal, and so he lingered for

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Speaker 1: a time. So the picture that she is that has

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Speaker 1: like Cheryl is saying, he actually tried to walk. So Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: then Ron Goldman sustained to his neck was the one

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Speaker 1: he was trying to staunch the flow of blood from right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was trying to apply pressure to it more than

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Speaker 1: likely to try to stem this flow. That's that's you

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Speaker 1: know that, that's just you know, eking the life out

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Speaker 1: of his body, very very slow. To Cheryl Kane, who

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Speaker 1: has written this book J. Simpson The Killer, minute by

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Speaker 1: minute account of the homicides of Nicole Brown Simpson and

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Speaker 1: Ron Goldman. Cheryl, who to whom did you send the manuscript?

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Speaker 1: We sent copies of it to O. J. Simpson and jail.

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Speaker 1: We we sent we have inside information. He went to

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Speaker 1: zerk when he received it. We sent copies to the

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Speaker 1: head ward and tell me this, How are we going

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Speaker 1: to get around the fact, Cheryl, that he's not in

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Speaker 1: jail for the double murders. He's in jail for armed robbery.

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Speaker 1: How much longer can they keep him? I now, but

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Speaker 1: this monster should never be released, and I will stuck

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Speaker 1: him with this book. Should he get out, I will

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Speaker 1: go to every public appearance puts on in this area,

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Speaker 1: and I will bring the book with me. He's said

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Speaker 1: an explosion waiting to happen. This guy walked free from

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Speaker 1: a destined but the civil case proved he did it.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you something that happened. Alan Duke also

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Speaker 1: with us Alan. After the verdict, I was still prosecuting

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Speaker 1: in City of Atlanta homicide felony prosecutor, and my old

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Speaker 1: buddy Haraldo at that time had a day show, kind

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Speaker 1: of a talk show with studio audience, and he asked

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Speaker 1: me what I fly to New York, and having grown

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Speaker 1: up grown up in the middle of soy bean fields

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Speaker 1: and tall pine trees, I wanted to see what New

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Speaker 1: York was, and so I said sure, and I flew

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Speaker 1: up there. Well. I appeared on a show with three

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Speaker 1: of the lady Gerards that were on the O. J.

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Speaker 1: Simpson murder trial. I think it was three, it was

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Speaker 1: at least three or more, and they had written a

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Speaker 1: book about it, and I tried to be respectful as

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Speaker 1: as best as I could during it, and I would

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Speaker 1: try to confront them with the evidence that in my

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Speaker 1: of mine was just damning. It's like nothing I said

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Speaker 1: made any sense to them. You know, they didn't want

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00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: to hear it, and so I remained friendly. I mean,

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00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: they didn't commit the murder, but I you know, I

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00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: was stunned that they could let the guy go. Everybody

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00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 1: show was over, and we walked out to the car

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00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: and they were going and I walked out behind them,

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00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: right behind them, and they started talking to me, very friendly,

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Speaker 1: very civil and nice to me, even though I vehemently

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00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: disagreed with them. And a big old white stretch limo

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00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: came up and it picked for them. Okay, I was standing,

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00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: They're hoping I could get a taxi. So it came

396
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: this big stretch limbo came up Alan, and one of

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00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: them turned around and she had her hand on the

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Speaker 1: car door. She turned around and she said, Nancy, I'll

399
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: tell you what, this murder has been the best thing

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Speaker 1: that ever happened to me. I mean, we have gone

401
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: on shop pink spreees, we have gone to the best restaurants,

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00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: we have stayed in the best hotels. I mean, it

403
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: has really been something. That's what I'm not through my story, Alan,

404
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: Can I just finish my story please? So then I

405
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: just stood there looking at her, and she slammed. They

406
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: shut the door, and they drove off, and I was

407
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: standing there, and of course I had on a coat

408
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: of what you could call a coat from Georgia, was

409
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: nothing to hold up in New York. And I remember

410
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: shivering and it started to snow. At that moment, snowflakes

411
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: started coming down, and I watched the tail lights disappear

412
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: and they turned off to the right, and I just

413
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: thought about what she said. This murder trial has been

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00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: the best thing that ever happened to me. That's what

415
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: she said. You know, it launched, It launched, It launched

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00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: a lot of careers, It launched shows. It changed the

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00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: way that I love vision is done, the way that

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00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 1: we cover trials. It was not talking about that, Scott.

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Speaker 1: Can anybody hear me here? Tell Scott. What I'm saying

420
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: is a person on the jury said that murder trial

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00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: was the best I'm not I'm not saying something seems

422
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: is it just for nine months? It should have been

423
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: six weeks? It was ridiculous. Do I still have with me? Okay, Joe,

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00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: can you speak? Can you do you not see the

425
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: problem with this, The irony of eating at the best hotel, eating,

426
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: eating at the best rushtural staying at the best hotels,

427
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: going on shopping spreees, being on TV and saying the

428
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: murder trial is the best thing that ever happened to you.

429
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: That's not what murder trial is about. No, and you knows.

430
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: I use this case now, this is twelve years twelve

431
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: years you know, downrange from my career working death investigations

432
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: in Atlanta and in New Orleans. And I used this

433
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: case repeatedly in my forensics class. This is the case

434
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: that actually changed the way we process death scenes. Now

435
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: I use this case repeatedly my classroom, and I tell

436
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: them that listen, it's this turned out this was obviously

437
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: a rich man's game. He the defense wore the jury

438
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: down with hyperbole and science that was way above their head.

439
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: And they don't want to hear anything else. And it's

440
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: it's a real show. I want to get back to

441
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: Cheryl Kine, who has written this book about the murders. Cheryl,

442
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: many people believe, including some of simpsons former lawyers, that

443
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: he will make parole and it's all going to go

444
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: down on Wednesday. What do you think, Cheryl. He's a monster.

445
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: He should never be released. He's picking time bum he'll

446
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: get out and do something else. He's incapable of being

447
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: a normal human being. And what he did, and which

448
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: is outlined in our book. If the dog hadn't come

449
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: back to the crime scene at twelve oh four with

450
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: the neighbors, he would have well O. J. Simpson's playing

451
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: was still sitting on the tarmac at L A X.

452
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: He would have got away with murder with the alibi

453
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: of distance when he was in Chicago. The dog saved

454
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: the day, and the dog saved the young children at

455
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: the time aged five and eight from finding their brutally

456
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: butchered mother and Ron Goldman when they came down for

457
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: breakfast the next morning. I just wonder how much the

458
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: parole board is going to take all of this into

459
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: account when they make this decision. The decision going down

460
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: in seventy two hours. So let me ask you this,

461
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: Alan Duke. Will Simpson himself appear at the pro board hearing.

462
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: I'm sure he'll be there. Why wouldn't he be there? Yes,

463
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: he'll be there. We're expecting and by the way, it's

464
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: gonna be televised. We're gonna we're gonna be able to

465
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: see me is as it should be, so Cheryl Caine,

466
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: who has written this fantastic book. Cheryl, he's not up

467
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: for role on the double murders. He was never convicted

468
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: on that. But do you believe those murders will weigh

469
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: in the minds of the parole board, Cheryl. We're hoping

470
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: they do, because he does not deserve to be paroled.

471
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: He's a butcher and he's incapable of sitting back into society.

472
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: Even the even the things he did in Florida were ridiculous.

473
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: See what things in Florida. Well, I won't go into that.

474
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: Let's concentrate on the book. Um, when anybody reads this book,

475
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: they will not want O. J. Simpson on the street.

476
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's brutal, Allen Duke. If they look at

477
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: the armed robbery in isolation, it was a brutal. He

478
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: acted like he was above the law, that he could

479
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: just do whatever he wanted and there would be no consequences.

480
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: Then he lied about it in front of the judge

481
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: at sentencing. Instead of finally coming clean after a jury

482
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: finds him guilty, Simpson tries to tell the judge that

483
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: what really happened, he was trying to reclaim family heirlooms,

484
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: family heirlooms and other items stolen from him, and that

485
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: he had no idea all of his buddies were carrying guns.

486
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: I mean, after a jury finds you guilty, you're you

487
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: caught red handed, right then you get up and lie

488
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: to the judge's face. I mean, does that mean nothing

489
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: to nobody but me? Oh oh no, oh no. You

490
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: don't get up in line of me. After I put

491
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: you through a jury trial and you put me through

492
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: a jury trial, do not stand up and lie up

493
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: in my face. Alan, Yeah, you're right. Lying to the

494
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: judges the last thing you ever want to do when

495
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: it comes to sentencing. But yeah, the Nevada jury, obviously

496
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: they they had this O. J. Nicole Brown Simpson Ron

497
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: Goldman murders very much in their minds when they found

498
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: him guilty. Why he's found he's caught redheaded in an

499
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: armed rob But they there was no way the wrong

500
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: side of a gun in your face and see how

501
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: you feel it was wrong? Okay, so it was. You

502
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: don't right, it was wrong if it hadn't been O. J.

503
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: Simpson and if he hadn't been notoriously acquitted in the

504
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: Los Angeles case, I don't he ever would have been

505
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: given all of this time? Really, what are you trying

506
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: to say? You don't think I took people to trial

507
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: on an armed rock. There were ends in the can. Yeah,

508
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: with a jury and they convicted. You pull out a

509
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: gun and rob somebody, You are going to jail if

510
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: I have anything to do with it. And you're gonna

511
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: sit there as long as he does have the gun

512
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: because when you get out, you'll probably do it again.

513
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: And you know what I heard Cheryl say, and she

514
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: didn't want to talk about it. All of what quote

515
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: happened in Florida. I mean, how many times could that

516
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend of his show up covered in bruises? Yeah?

517
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: I mean really and she finally finally broke up with him? Well,

518
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: there's no question I guess she fell down the steps

519
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: like Nicole Brown did. There's no question that O. J.

520
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: Simpson is a lifelong problem child and a murderous problem.

521
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: Stop it, stop it, I mean, and he'll you know,

522
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: stop it. He is not a place don't problem child.

523
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: A problem child is somebody that won't eat the broccoli.

524
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,479
Speaker 1: This is a double killer and an armed robber, all right,

525
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: He's not a He just made me man a problem child. Well,

526
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: I mean this is a double killer. Haven't you seen

527
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: those crime scene photos of Nicole Wang and a pool

528
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: of blood. I covered it closely when it was going on.

529
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: He need to go back and look, he is a killer.

530
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: In the l A case. They did not win the

531
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: case because the l A. P D Messed up, messed

532
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: up royally, and the poor prosecutors just didn't realize it

533
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: until it was too late. Nancy. Let's listen to a

534
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: little bit of what Simpson told the parole board in

535
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, the last time he was asking to

536
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: get out early. Okay, listen to this. Not had any

537
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: incidents has despite all the stories and the taboloids and everything.

538
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: I haven't had one incident since I've been here, Right,

539
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: I think on a daily paid basis, i'd speak to

540
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: more inmates and CEOs and any out of here um.

541
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: Inmates tell me their stories. Uh, some of them tell

542
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: me their crimes and uh as far as burglary, which

543
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: I'm here for a robbery, I should say, Uh, They've

544
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: told me every kind of story you can hear. Guys

545
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: who have rob banks, had rode those. Even one guy

546
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: who robbed a gun shop which I thought took a

547
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: lot of guns. Uh. The difference between all of their

548
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: crimes and mine is they were trying to steal other

549
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: people's property. They were trying to steal other people's money.

550
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: My crime was trying to retrieve from my family, my

551
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: own property, property that has been stolen from me, in

552
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: property that since I've been here at love Lock, the

553
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: State of California's judiciary has who was my stuff and

554
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: I had it back. Now, make no mistake, I would

555
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: give it all back to these guys. They could have

556
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: it all to get. These last five years uh back. Uh.

557
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: They've been some illuminating at times and thankful a lot

558
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: of times. I've missed my two younger kids who we

559
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: worked hard getting through high school. I missed they are

560
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: college graduations. I missed my I missed my daughters, uh,

561
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: my sisters, I should say in funeral. I missed all

562
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: of birthdays and in various things. When I went to

563
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: that place that night, I had already discussed it with

564
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: my kids. I spoke about it with my sister and

565
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: brother in law older sister and brother in law who

566
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: were originally going to go with me up until the

567
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: last hour. I even talked to two lawyers about it.

568
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: One the night before that I knew and had a

569
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: conversation with a lawyer that day who I didn't know.

570
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: I did had no intention. My attempt was not to

571
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: rob from anybody. I knew both of these guys who

572
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: had my stuff. I was a little upset with him,

573
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: and I think I wasn't as civil as I should

574
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: have been. I brought some guys with me where I

575
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: didn't really know, and one I didn't trust, and that's

576
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: on me, uh for that. I've been here for five years,

577
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: and all I could do about it since I've been

578
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: here is be as respectful and as straightforward as as

579
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: I could be with the staff here at Lovelock, and

580
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: do my time as best as I can do it. Uh.

581
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: I am sorry for what has happened. I spoke to

582
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: I have spoken at length to both of the victims. UH.

583
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: They've apologized. I've apologized. I know their families, they know

584
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: my families, and I just wish I had never gone

585
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: to that to that room. I wish I didn't. I

586
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: wish I had just said keep it and not worry

587
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: about it. UM. Other than that, you know, I'm just

588
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: sorry that all of this had to happen. But let's

589
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: get down to it. The parole board scores an inmate

590
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: on multiple factors. The higher the score, the greater risk

591
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: involved in releasing them him. A person with a score

592
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: of zero to five is deemed low risk. Six to eleven, medium,

593
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 1: twelve or more. Your high risk. All right. In two

594
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, Simpsons scored three points. All right, that's low.

595
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,479
Speaker 1: I don't like it. I don't know where they got.

596
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: He's an old man. He's not the same. You know what.

597
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: I prosecuted a man for child station and he was

598
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: seventy three years old. It's different, alright, No, it's not different.

599
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: It's a felony. You don't think Simpson's gonna get out

600
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: and beat somebody up or rob somebody. Horrible thing. I

601
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: think he's gonna be He's gonna be a target. I

602
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: think he better watches. Butnny how he hasn't been a

603
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: target behind bars. Everybody predicted. Oh he's gonna get jail

604
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: house justice. Oh oh no, he's got a butler behind bars,

605
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 1: love letters, the works. He's got somebody working for him

606
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: behind bars. We'll see how he survives. I'm wondering if

607
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: he'll ever show up. To l A and and come

608
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: out here. See how he survives. He's gained weight, He's

609
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: living like a king. That's how he's surviving. I don't

610
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: have to wait and see. I already know how he surved.

611
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: What what has happened to you? Have you lost your

612
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: I haven't lost my mind, but Simpson is up. That

613
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: sounded weak mind. It makes me think maybe you have

614
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: lost your mind. Okay, all right, okay, okay, okay, Allen.

615
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna eat a dirt sandwich and apologize for fussing

616
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: at you, although I, in the words of Lego Batman,

617
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: I disagree with everything you just said. So how is

618
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 1: it that O. J. Simpson is still getting an NFL pension?

619
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: While Ron Goldman took him to a civil trial where

620
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 1: it came out that he did own Bruno Molly's shoes.

621
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: Those foot bloody footprints, they matched his shoes that he

622
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: denied having. It came out that he made a negative

623
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 1: something I want to say, a negative forty on his polygraph.

624
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: All that came out in the civil trial that was

625
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: not in at the criminal case. But that aside, Ron

626
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: Goldman never got Ron Goldman's dad, Fred Goldman, never got

627
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: a penny one penny from that civil judgment. So how

628
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: is it that Simpson still has And in that, by

629
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: the way, in that civil trial, the difference was, of

630
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 1: course we heard from O. J. And he did look

631
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 1: kind of guilty on that. I mean, he wasn't able

632
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: to to put on a glove. Look he did in

633
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: the criminal trial where he just put the gloves on

634
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: and said, hey, they don't fit. You know, first of all,

635
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: he didn't testify at the criminal trial. Number one, he

636
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: did he did a deposition at the civil trial. Testify

637
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: at the criminal trial. He stood up in a very

638
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: very ill conceived in court demonstration and pretended that God

639
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: didn't feel that's what he did, okay, and and that

640
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: that served as he was able to testify without being

641
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: cross examined in that sense, cheryld, what were you saying.

642
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: Anyone who has any doubt that he did it will

643
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: read this book and know that he did it. It's

644
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: a brutal account, and Ron Goldman's family is suffering for

645
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. In fact, my publicist asked

646
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: ed Lovesey asked me to send a copy of the

647
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 1: book to the Goldman's and then I said, I don't

648
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,720
Speaker 1: want to do that, it would just bring more pain

649
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: to their lives. Would you send a copy of the

650
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: book to the Goldman's Nancy, No, I would not. I don't.

651
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: I've already been through so much. I mean, they know

652
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: what happened. They've been through just so much pain and torture.

653
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: And no, I would not. I don't think I would

654
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 1: do that. Um. You know what's interesting to just got

655
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: Morgan death investigator and forensics investigated or at Jacksonal State University.

656
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: There's no doubt that he flat out flunked his life

657
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: detector tests. After agree Nancy, there is no doubt. Uh.

658
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 1: And again uh that stood out in the civil case.

659
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: I think that in addition to that that um uh

660
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: in the back to the criminal trial, I think that

661
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 1: d NA points to O j uh and going back

662
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: to to what's going to happen on Wednesday and what

663
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: Carol had mentioned just a few months ago. UM, I

664
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: think that this is going to this event, these two deaths,

665
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: these brutal butcherings, as Carol had had uh sorry Cheryl,

666
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: Cheryl had pointed out, I apologize this game. Uh. I

667
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: think that that that, in my estimation, those are going

668
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: to play into the thoughts of this board. This is

669
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: not gonna be like a criminal trial. Uh, this is

670
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: gonna resonate with them. They're gonna have that in mind.

671
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: It's impossible to escape it. So I think he's in

672
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: a prison of his own making right now. I'm I'm

673
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: betting that they're not going to cut him loose. I

674
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: don't know how much longer that they could, I hope.

675
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,959
Speaker 1: I don't know how much longer they could actually keep

676
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: him in UM on the charges that he went down on,

677
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 1: because it wouldn't be a parole again for another five years.

678
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: Are I on that parole board hearing Joe Scott Morgan

679
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: and Cheryl Kane, author, thank you for being with us.

680
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,