1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: By the end of December twenty twenty three, our team 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: had wrapped up production on Hello John Dale. Todd and 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: I talked a little bit about what we'd both do next, 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: how excited we were about the show coming out, what 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: kind of other unbelievable stories he'd come across that might 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: warrant a second season. On January third of this year, 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: I got a call from my editor Catherine. 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 2: Todd had passed away that morning. 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: He was only fifty three. I'm still not exactly sure 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: how to process this. None of us are, but our 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: team did what we knew we had to. We flew 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: to Tennessee, paid our respects, and dedicated an episode to 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: Todd Matthew's remarkable life. 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 3: We do have a very full flight this morning, so 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 3: if we do have a larger roller release, but it. 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 4: Is Wales first. 17 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: We couldn't let Todd go to the other side of 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: the veil without a proper goodbye, and we wanted to 19 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: finish what Todd started. Reached back out to Steve one 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: last time to see what it all meant to him. 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: My name is Kate Michigan and this is Hello John Doe. 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: A sleuth, a family and a serial killer. The story 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: of a family torn apart by tragedy and Todd's quest 24 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: to break them back together. This is Chapter eleven, the 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: first of three bonus episodes. 26 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: This one's for Todd. 27 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: Todd'stown, Livingston, Tennessee, is about an hour and a half 28 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,919 Speaker 1: outside of Nashville, a little sleepy and tucked away between 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: mountains and trees. It was just a few days after 30 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: the New year. The trees were barren gray. Todd's visitation 31 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: was at a funeral home right next to the clothing 32 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: boutique his wife, Florrie ran. 33 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 5: And so today we gather to honor and to celebrate 34 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 5: the remarkable life of Todd Matthews. 35 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 6: There was so many people there, a lot of people. 36 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 6: They were weaving us back and forth in the pews, 37 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 6: and all I could do was watch that little TV 38 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 6: thing showed dollar pictures. 39 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: You know, that's Rosemary Westbrook. You might remember her from 40 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: our first episode. She's the sister of Tent Girl, the 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: very first woman Todd helped identify, the one that basically 42 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: changed his life and obviously changed hers. 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 6: It was a lot of thoughts running through your head 44 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 6: of many years past. 45 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: Rosemary and her family drove up from Arkansas to say goodbye. 46 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: They were among the hundreds. There were people from the 47 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: dough Network family. 48 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: Seed helped reunite his own family, his wife, their two kids, 49 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: and his grandkids. People from Hutchinson, the factory where he 50 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: started his career. Tina Hall, his cousin who grew up 51 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: with him, was surprised by the wide range of people 52 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: who showed up. 53 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 7: I knew he had done a lot, but even after 54 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 7: his passing now, it's just amazing how many people came 55 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 7: out to the funeral home and the stories about how 56 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 7: he touched their lives. We were so proud of me. 57 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: There were so many people in the receiving line that 58 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: Todd's wife, Flor, stood by the casket for more than 59 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: four hours. 60 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 6: You know how you kind of listen in on stories 61 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 6: as you're passing through this weaving motion, and most of 62 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 6: them were stories of Todd being a prankster. You know 63 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 6: how he played a trick on this one, played trick 64 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 6: on that one, and tell somebody to go do something 65 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 6: and watch them come out the building and laugh at him. 66 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: I overheard that same thing. I knew this firsthand. 67 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: But Todd didn't change his persona if he was at 68 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: the factory or the doughnut work or the Department of Justice, 69 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: or in his living room. He was the same guy, tenderhearted, 70 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: with a propensity for tricks. We paid our respects and 71 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: then came back the next day for the funeral. That's 72 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: when we met John Brett, an old friend of Todd's. 73 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 5: I first met Todd in an unconventional way. I was 74 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 5: working as an investigative reporter at WLAXTV in Lexington, Kentucky. 75 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 5: I was sitting at my desk one afternoon in the newsroom. 76 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 5: In the phone rang and I picked it up and 77 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 5: fat voice he started the conversation with You're gonna think 78 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 5: I'm crazy, but please don't hang up until you hear 79 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 5: my story. And that call was about the tent girl case. 80 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: John was taken with Todd. Who was this guy? 81 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: Todd ended up doing his first TV interview with John 82 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: back in nineteen ninety eight. This was a milestone for 83 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: him and the beginning of a lifelong friendship between two men. 84 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 5: He was a son, a husband, a father, a poppy, 85 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 5: and to many of us here a friend and a mentor. 86 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 5: His humor, as we've heard his legendary as his investigative skills. 87 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: Todd was famous in Livingstone, not just because of his 88 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: national profile. He was an original, hard to miss. 89 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 5: He was a man who found joy in life's simplest moments, 90 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 5: whether it was nurturing his garden or cooking the meal 91 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 5: for his family. His passing leaves a void that can 92 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 5: never be filled, but his legacy is immortal. It lives 93 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 5: on in the lives that he touched, the mysteries that 94 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 5: he solved, the love he spread. 95 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: If you've been listening to this podcast, you know Todd 96 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: had a pretty unique relationship to death. Like he said himself, 97 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: he confronted it early on when he lost his two siblings, 98 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: and it was a huge part of how he made 99 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: his living reuniting dead and missing people with their families. 100 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: Todd talked a lot about death before his passing, not 101 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: in a morbid way. 102 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: He was just a matter of fact about it. 103 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 8: I'm not squeamish. Acada Cereal, Elbadrasco. 104 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: A few years ago, some documentary filmmakers from Morgan Freeman's 105 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: production company filmed Todd when they were thinking about making 106 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: a movie about him. After he died, we listened back 107 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: to those recordings. I was stunned by how poignant his 108 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: words were and his passing, the gained meaning became even 109 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: more profound. 110 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 8: Death is part of life, It is a real chapter 111 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 8: of life. You have to accept that as you've done enough, 112 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 8: you've done everything that you can do, accept the things 113 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 8: you can't change, and embrace the things that you can. 114 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 8: So that's what I had to do to make myself 115 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 8: be okay, because I feel like I'm somebody that wants 116 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 8: to see you want it all, but sometimes you have enough. 117 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: As we were making Hello John Doe, when he thought 118 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: we were capturing the story of Steve Patterson, we didn't 119 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: realize we were documenting the last years of Todd's life too. 120 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: You've heard Todd talk about losing his brother and sister. 121 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 8: I was two years old, but I still remember fragments 122 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 8: of the emotion. 123 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: What he hadn't told you yet was that he had 124 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: open heart surgery when he was just eight years old. 125 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 8: There was a period of time I wasn't expected to live, 126 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 8: so growing up, I really never expected to be here today. 127 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 8: So I feel like almost my entire adult life, I 128 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 8: felt like I was living on barred time. I wasn't 129 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 8: planning on being a grandfather, but yet I'm here. So 130 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 8: it gives you a different point of view. I don't 131 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 8: feel like life was owed to me. I felt like 132 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 8: I was granted life that was beyond what I expected. 133 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: I always wondered what was driving Todd? 134 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 8: So you do have to appreciate it, and I do. 135 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 8: I do appreciate it. It's like, so what do you 136 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 8: do with it? 137 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: I guess this was that he was compelled to do 138 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: something with the time he was given. He didn't just 139 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: help one family, he helped dozens, hundreds. 140 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 8: And it was a strange niche with missing and unidentified. 141 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 8: You don't just choose that, it chooses you. And maybe 142 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 8: that's what's kept me here for so long. 143 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 2: It just feels like Todd was born to do this 144 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: kind of to nestle into people's lives at their darkest points. 145 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 8: I do make friends really quickly with people, and that's 146 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 8: just my nature. Some of my best friends are dead, 147 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 8: but it's okay. They were dead when I met him, 148 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 8: and it's like, why is that weird? And I don't 149 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 8: think that's inappropriate, not at all. 150 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: I don't. 151 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 8: I think it's absolutely necessary and matters of life and death, 152 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 8: it's absolutely necessary that somebody truly knows that you're going 153 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 8: to do everything you can to resolve it for them. 154 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 8: Just because somebody's unclaim doesn't mean they're unwanting. 155 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: All this to say, when Todd died, I hope he'd 156 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: already meet peace with it. 157 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 8: I think death is such a stigma because people it's 158 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 8: something you don't want to do. You know, It's like 159 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 8: nobody wants to die. You heard the saying everybody wants 160 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 8: to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. It's 161 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 8: just like it's easy to just like, let's just forget 162 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 8: about that. Let's push it away. That's going to be 163 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 8: a long time from now. I don't want to deal 164 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 8: with it. It's only sad, it's only bad. Let's not 165 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 8: think about it. But it's just like it is a 166 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 8: part of life. 167 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: In this video, Todd was in the car showing the 168 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: producers around Livingstone. He was wearing a basel cop and 169 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: he had a look on his face. I came to 170 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: know fairly well, it's kind of a lopsided grinnin like 171 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: he's already thinking five steps ahead of you. You've pulled 172 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: up to the cemetery where his brother and sister were buried. 173 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 8: I think if you can prepare for it and accept it, 174 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 8: because you're not going to change it. I would love 175 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 8: to change it if I could. But I realized that 176 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 8: instead of avoiding it and pushing it off, evading it, 177 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 8: you got to think about what do I need to 178 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 8: do before I'm here? What do I need to do 179 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 8: to finish up some things in life before I lay 180 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 8: down here and go to sleep myself. I don't want 181 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 8: to have that damnation of wishing I had of So 182 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 8: that's why I want to do now while I have time, 183 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 8: because I know the day is coming I lay down here, 184 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 8: so I want to do it with a clean slate. 185 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 8: If I could say that, I'd like to do it 186 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 8: when I think you know what you don't know all 187 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 8: you can do, be proud of it, be happy so 188 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 8: you laid it when the work is done. 189 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: In that interview, Todd talked about how he felt about dying, 190 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: but he didn't talk about everyone he'd leave behind, and 191 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: he didn't give us instructions on what we're supposed to 192 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: do without him. Lately, Todd's family's been wondering how to 193 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: live in a world without him. His son, Devin, who's 194 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: twenty two, saw his dad's work up close. 195 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 9: He went to Kentucky one time I was with him 196 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 9: when he exhoomed a grave. I was there for a 197 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 9: part of that, and that was really really cool. He 198 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 9: was just in his element. 199 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 2: Todd never shielded his kids from what he did for 200 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 2: a living. 201 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 9: From a pretty young age, I knew exactly what it 202 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 9: was because I I had to know. I was always 203 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 9: nosy and it was never like a traumatizing thing. It 204 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 9: was always just like, oh wow, Okay, that's fascinating. 205 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: Which meant that when the time came, Devin felt better 206 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: equipped to deal with grief than most. 207 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 9: I mean, if there's anybody that's helped me realize that 208 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 9: it happens to everyone and all different kinds of ways, 209 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 9: it's him, and I don't know, I feel like it's 210 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 9: given me a better outlook on it. 211 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: Not shielding his kids from dath meant Devin and his 212 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: brother Dylan grew up with a pretty unique understanding of it. 213 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: They had to roll with Todd's morbid sense of humor. 214 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 10: I remember specifically, growing up, we had this head in 215 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 10: the house. It was a skull and it was facially reconstructed. 216 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 2: That's Todd's older son, Dylan, So. 217 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 10: It looked like a woman's head. It had the eyes 218 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 10: and everything, and we had a small chihuahua and we 219 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 10: didn't want the dog getting into that and messing with it, 220 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 10: so at night that that head would have to be 221 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 10: in my room. He'd get up at like four o'clock 222 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 10: in the morning to go to work when he worked 223 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 10: at Hutchinson, the. 224 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: Factory down the street where Todd helped make air conditioning parts. 225 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 10: Every night when I went to bed, I turned that 226 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 10: head away from me because it was creepy. And every 227 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 10: morning when I woke up, it was facing me. And 228 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 10: he never admitted to it. I was like nine years 229 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 10: old allways, stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, he never admitted 230 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 10: to it his whole life. But I mean I had 231 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 10: not Marrius about that thing. 232 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: He was always causing trouble. He loved pranking people. 233 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: Todd and his cousin Tina were like brother and sister, 234 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: only seventeen months apart. Once, when they were adults, they 235 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: went to the grocery store while both of their kids 236 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: were at karate practice. They opened Todd's trunk in the 237 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: parking lot. 238 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 7: Todd said, watch out for her and be careful with her, 239 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 7: and I'm like who. He points to a box and 240 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 7: it was a box of bones. And he was taken somewhere, 241 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 7: you know, And this wasn't uncommon for Todd to have 242 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 7: something like this in his car. 243 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: Then later in the night, Tina opened the trunk again, 244 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: something fell. 245 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 7: Out, and I was terrified to looke. I just covered 246 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 7: my eyes. I said, please tell me it wasn't her. 247 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 7: Please tell me it wasn't her. It was my twelve 248 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 7: packag of popes. But still I was terrified. 249 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 2: He was always up to something. 250 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 1: When Todd and I drove across North Carolina to meet 251 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: Steve's family over Memorial Day weekend in twenty twenty three, 252 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: he took every opportunity to tell me about his many 253 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: irons in the fire. Todd's ambitions went way beyond the 254 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: Department of Justice. He had ideas for at least two 255 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: other podcasts. There was his screenplay about the Bounty Hunter. 256 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: He officiated weddings, He dabbled in the wine business, and 257 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: he had a prolific side career in background acting, including 258 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: in a twenty twenty two movie called Santa boot Camp 259 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: starring Rita Moreno. Even with all of his projects, Todd 260 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 1: found the time to teach special needs classes at a 261 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: middle school. He taught at Livingston Academy, the very same 262 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: place he'd gone to school four decades ago. 263 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 9: I think he left a legacy at the school too, 264 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 9: because a lot of those students with his special needs class, 265 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 9: he really changed their lives and impacted their families. And 266 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 9: I think that he'll be talked about for a long 267 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 9: time around there, especially with the sudden loss, like they 268 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 9: really were prepared to have him in the coming years. 269 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: So were we. 270 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: In the final months of production on this podcast, I 271 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: told Todd that some of my friends and co workers 272 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: had encouraged me to take some time off after the 273 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: show was released. I could rest a little recharge think 274 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: about the next project. Todd scoffed told me to keep going. 275 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: There were too many stories to tell. Honestly, I liked 276 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: hearing that from him. He had a motor he'd rest. Later, 277 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: his sons told me Todd was feeling really good about 278 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: his life, including this podcast coming out. He was looking 279 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: forward to the end of winter break, to getting back 280 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: to teaching the kids. 281 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 9: And he said that he had a really good like 282 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 9: end of the year, and he just he hadn't been 283 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 9: this happy in a long time. He was about to 284 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 9: go back to work Wednesday would have been his first 285 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 9: day back. He was so excited. 286 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 2: You'd think work was his life. 287 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: But if you were here, he'd tell you the most 288 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: important things happened at home. He haspecially loved his grandkids, 289 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: Connor and River. He talked about them all they time. 290 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 10: He loved my kids. He said, if we could just 291 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 10: have skipped the kids and went straight to the grandkids, 292 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 10: that he could not have been naster to my kids. 293 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 10: If that was the only thing he ever accomplished, was 294 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 10: making those two kids, those two grandkids possible, then that 295 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 10: would have been enough for him. 296 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: Todd and his family all basically lived on one block. 297 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: Todd and his wife, Flri were in one house. Dylan 298 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: and his family were within eyesight. Todd's parents were there too, 299 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: even Todd's brother for the Matthews family taught us everywhere. 300 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 10: When I walk out the door, I could almost see 301 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 10: him walking down the driveway to his house. I can't 302 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 10: look out the door without seeing some plant he's planted, 303 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 10: some tree planted. 304 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: When Todd passed away, his family took on a unique 305 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: assignment writing letters to him. 306 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: Then they buried them with him. 307 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 10: My mother's letters in his left breast pocket, my letters 308 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 10: in his right breast pocket. My kid's letters are in 309 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 10: his hands. He would have loved those letters. Things we 310 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 10: all should have said to him every day, but you 311 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 10: don't get a chance until it's too late. Sometimes. If 312 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 10: he was miraculously able to come back and get possession 313 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 10: of those, that would be his most cherished things he 314 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 10: could possibly have in his life if. 315 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: He did come back. 316 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: A few of his relatives kind of joked about Todd's 317 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: return from the beyond. Family member Brent Right even made 318 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: a joke about it at the funeral. 319 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 11: I'm still in somewhat of disbelief. 320 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 12: I still think this might be one of Todd's pranks. 321 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 4: Now. 322 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 12: I'm just waiting for him to pop out in the 323 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 12: corner somewhere and say a. 324 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 11: Hi, I got you. 325 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: This was a part of Todd too. 326 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: There was something about him that was a little supernatural, 327 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: like he had a direct line to the dead. When 328 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: Todd started telling me about this and I brushed it off, 329 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: but there was something about the way he said it, 330 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: I kind of just began believing it. Here's his son, Dylan. 331 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 10: Off the record, of course, but I made a joke 332 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 10: to a lot of the family members. I think you 333 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 10: better stay away from Uija board for a while because 334 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 10: your house will be possessed with the spirit of Todd. Well, 335 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 10: you can't. I don't mind. He would enjoy that joke. 336 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: I think Todd had a sense of humor about death 337 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: and the afterlife. 338 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 10: My mom even said she's like, I'll know if it's 339 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 10: possible to come back, because she said, if anybody's coming back, 340 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 10: he's coming back. He always said he would too. He's like, 341 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 10: I'll haunt her. But you're just joking, you know, But 342 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 10: just joking. 343 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: He's not really talking about a ghost hiding under a 344 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: white sheet. Todd's beliefs I think were really more spiritual. 345 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: He talked about being on one side of the veil 346 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: that separated life and death. The way Todd talked about it, 347 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: that veil was more sure for him than for most. 348 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 9: I can kind of feel his presence sometimes, Like when 349 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 9: I'm thinking about him, I'm just like, like, this is weird. 350 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 9: Like I can feel that you're here, but I can't 351 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 9: see that you're here. It's just crazy. 352 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: I like to think he's right. 353 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: I hope he had a way to see the hundreds 354 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: of people who showed up for him in his funeral. 355 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: I think he'd be proud of the way his son 356 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: summoned the courage to be interviewed on maybe the hardest 357 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: day of their lives. I think he'd be thrilled to 358 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: see the release of this podcast, a project he'd been 359 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: ostensibly working on for twenty years. But it really all 360 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: started with Tent Girl. This is Rosemary Westbrook again, Tent 361 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: Girl's sister. 362 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 6: There is nothing. I don't think that anybody could ever 363 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 6: match what he has done. And if it wasn't for 364 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 6: Tod being so damn persistent, we'd still not know where 365 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 6: she was. So what is Todd mean to us? 366 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: Everything? 367 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 6: And who's to say that he might leave a little 368 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 6: tidbit of information here, little clues you don't know that 369 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 6: you know. Do I believe in God? 370 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 3: Yes? 371 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 11: I do. 372 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 3: Do I believe in Todd? Yes? I do. 373 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 11: Hey Steve, it's Kate, Hey Kate. How are you? 374 00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 3: I'm good? 375 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 8: How about you? 376 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: The last we'd heard from Steve, he'd been surprised by 377 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: his biological mom, Sandy, at a hotel room in North Carolina. 378 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: Todd wanted Steve to find peace, and he thought that 379 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: meeting his. 380 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 2: Birth mom would help that along. 381 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: But after that day, Todd came to realize that Steve 382 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: deserved a head's up. He should have had the chance 383 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: to decide whether it was time to meet his biological 384 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: mom or not. The surprise reunion caused a bit of 385 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: a break in Steven Todd's relationship. I suspected Steve had 386 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: some complicated feelings about Todd. The last time he saw 387 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: Todd was in that hotel room last August. He was 388 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: shocked by Todd's death just five months later in early January. 389 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 11: It was a lot of a mixed emotions because I 390 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 11: don't know, I didn't get to tell him marry Christmas, 391 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 11: because we it was kind of weird between us, just 392 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 11: because we had met. And he brought my mom there. 393 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 4: You know. 394 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 11: I feel bad about that, I really do, because he 395 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 11: didn't tell me that he was bringing my mom at 396 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 11: the motel room. 397 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 12: He sprang it all on him. 398 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 2: That's Steve's girlfriend, Janette. 399 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 12: He brung it on Steve and that was just not 400 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 12: what he wanted and how it was all handled was wrong, 401 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 12: and like that. I feel like they did it without 402 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 12: me and Steve's mom there on purpose because they knew 403 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 12: how he felt and Steve wasn't going to stand up 404 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 12: for himself, and so there was a little tension. 405 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: I guess no one expected this to be the last 406 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: conversation between the men. Todd said to himself in the 407 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: last episode. He expected that in a few years they'd 408 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: reconnect and continued on the path together. 409 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 11: I wish I had told you to marry Chris. 410 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 12: Steve had just beat himself up over that because he 411 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 12: didn't reach out Christmas, and like, you don't think that 412 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 12: you're not going to be able to like fix it, 413 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 12: and so you know, Steve struggled with that a little bit, 414 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,959 Speaker 12: because you fight and then you fix it, and like 415 00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 12: they didn't have time to fix it. 416 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 2: Steve said that even when they were distant, he didn't 417 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 2: forget how Todd got into his life in the first place. 418 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 11: I didn't learn respect for him, not at all. I 419 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 11: just think. 420 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 12: It just could have handled it could have been handled differently. Well, 421 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 12: that doesn't change how Steve felt about. 422 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 11: I mean, I love Todd, yeah. 423 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 12: Absolutely, I mean it was just like a normal family fuss. 424 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 11: He felt like we were brothers. Yeah, And he told 425 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 11: me that numerous times. 426 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: I'd never heard this from Steve, that the brotherhood may 427 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: have felt reciprocal to him too. All along, Steve had 428 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: been getting to know his biological family. He never knew 429 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: along the way he came Todd too. 430 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 11: But he was one of the greatest people I've ever 431 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 11: known in my life. 432 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 12: Yeah, for sure. 433 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 11: Oh it was great. Man. He came to bat for 434 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 11: me when nobody else came to bat, including the FBI, 435 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 11: the police, just anybody. I mean, he believed my story. 436 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 11: He was the only one before anybody ever believed it. 437 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 12: And if you could have heard see when he called me, 438 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 12: because he's like he believes me, like he's gonna help us. 439 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 12: He believed me. It was just insane. Yeah, nobody believed us. 440 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 6: Man. 441 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 11: If it wouldn't have been for him, I wouldn't even 442 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 11: be where I'm at right now. I would still be 443 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 11: a missing person. 444 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 2: Steve says he's still talking to his sisters. 445 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 11: I love my sisters that I'm just the same dude 446 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 11: I was. I had a good childhood with my mom. 447 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 11: I'm just a normal guy with just a fucked up story. 448 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 13: Thanks, thanks, going, Okay it is Yes, it was rust 449 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 13: for a little bit, but that was in rough Like 450 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 13: people don't find things out like this about themselves. 451 00:22:59,520 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: But you. 452 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 13: What good. 453 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: Then Steve said something that knocked the wind out. 454 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 11: Of me and I just wondered, who's gonna take his place? Oh, 455 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 11: I mean, I'm not the smartest man in the world computers, 456 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 11: but I would like to do that too. Really, I mean, 457 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 11: if I could change somebody's life like he changed mind, man, 458 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 11: that would be good for me. 459 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: Steve wants to volunteer with the Doe Network, the online 460 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: platform Todd started at the beginning of his career. I 461 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: can't think of anything more meaningful. Todd and his wife 462 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: Lori had been married for thirty six years. You met 463 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: Laurie in episode one. Todd always talked about the two 464 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: like they were something even more than soulmates, that they 465 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: were meant to be together. Laurie's dad was the one 466 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: who found ten Girl, so in a way, the two 467 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: were intertwined. 468 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 3: Early on, he loved to make people lay off. The 469 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 3: biggest thing he did is he liked to scare you. 470 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: You could jump out anywhere, you could come out of 471 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 3: the bathroom, out of the hallway, wherever he would jump 472 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 3: out and scare again. He would have the biggest laugh. 473 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 3: But we would always get mad, because you know, you 474 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 3: don't like being scared. 475 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 4: But I got to work. I was doing him the 476 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 4: same way, and he didn't like it as well either. 477 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: Laurie also told me that Todd loved being outside. He'd 478 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: spend hours out there in silence, just thinking. He left 479 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: to have his hands in the dirt planting something new. 480 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 4: He planted a tree every year. He planted a tree 481 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 4: for our anniversary. 482 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 3: He planned a tree for each kids a birth date, 483 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 3: like he would plant a tree on the day they 484 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 3: were born. He planted a tree on her grand babies birthdays. 485 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: Despite his money, projects and interests, Todd always made time 486 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: for his family. He and Laurie would go out to 487 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: dinner or go shopping. He met her dinner every single night. 488 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 3: Family meant everything to Todd. He always wanted us to 489 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: get together. He always wanted to have cookouts, Thanksgiving, Christmas. 490 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 3: We had always had to do things together. 491 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 2: Why do you think that was what about him wanted that. 492 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 3: I think it had something to do with maybe his 493 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 3: brother and sister passing at an early age. He just 494 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 3: always wanted everybody to be together, be happy. 495 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: I asked Laurie about what Devin had said about Todd 496 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: being so satisfied. In the last days of twenty twenty three. 497 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 3: We spent the Saturday night with my family and then 498 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 3: we went to a New Year's Eve party, and then 499 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 3: we had New Year's Day and then the day after 500 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 3: and we was just preparing for work and we. 501 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 4: Just we just got along. We were happy. 502 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 3: Just we did everything together and we talked about stuff 503 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 3: and just I don't know. 504 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 4: He just said, Laurie, I did the best three days. 505 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 4: He was just like, I finally got where I wanted 506 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 4: to be. 507 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: They're incredibly close. But Todd kept a lot of his 508 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: work to himself. 509 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 4: I think he hid a lot of his stress. 510 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 3: I think he stayed up many nights, tortured over you know, 511 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 3: some of the cases that he worked on, you know, 512 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 3: like the Steve Patterson case. You know, it did bother him. 513 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 3: He really wanted to solve that case. 514 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 2: For her part, Laurie didn't give Tod's work too much. 515 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 4: Thought. 516 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 3: I wasn't interested in his work because I lived it, 517 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 3: so it wasn't enjoyable for me. 518 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 4: But now I realize I'm going to have to live it. 519 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 2: Why do you feel like you have to do it? 520 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 3: I would love to see his work continue, and I 521 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 3: don't know who else could do it. 522 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: Now, she's trying to learn how the dough network works 523 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: so she can carry on the torch and carry on 524 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: Todd's legacy of reuniting these families. Maybe she can help 525 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: bring others peace. 526 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 3: I'm trying to do some research, trying to look for 527 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 3: some missing people that hopefully I can take over and 528 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 3: help him and just continue his work. My goal is 529 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 3: to keep the donutwork going and just trying to continue 530 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 3: what he wanted. 531 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: What's it been like to learn that what's involved. 532 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 3: It's a lot harder than I thought it said. It's 533 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 3: a chorer trying to get through everything. And the enormity 534 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 3: of how many people are actually missing or unidentified. I 535 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,239 Speaker 3: did not realize that so many people are struggling and 536 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 3: suffering looking for their families, and all of these missing 537 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 3: people and all the unidentified. There is people looking for them. 538 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: There has to be, So it's just flowing my mind 539 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 3: how many people it really is. 540 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: I told her host Steve wanted to help out too. 541 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: I mean, we'll accept any volunteer. I mean, the Do' 542 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 3: network is a family of volunteers. You know, if he 543 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 3: wants to volunteer, we'd be more than happy to have him. 544 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 3: We can set him up. Maybe he can one day 545 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 3: thought a missing person case. 546 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: It's given Laurie a deeper appreciation for her husband's work. 547 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 3: He showed me what it was like to have an 548 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 3: impact on people in the world. He showed me how 549 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 3: he was a great teacher. He showed me that you 550 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 3: can get places by working. 551 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 4: I do think that Tod did make me a better person. 552 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: In the months before he died, Todd and Laurie would 553 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: take walks together at night and they'd listen to early 554 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: mixes of this podcast. Laurie would always want Todd to 555 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: pause the podcast so she could ask questions, why did 556 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: you say that? 557 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 3: Because you know, he just didn't discuss it with me, 558 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 3: because he just didn't feel like I was interested in 559 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 3: his work, which you know, I wish now that i'd 560 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 3: show more than I was. 561 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 4: But I was always proud of him. 562 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: Laurie's been listening to this podcast as it comes out, 563 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: but with every week that goes by, there are fewer 564 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: episodes to listen to. 565 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 3: It's hard to listen to them. But it does give 566 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 3: me peace because I know that's what he wanted. The 567 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,959 Speaker 3: podcast is very comforting and it's his legacy. It's what 568 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 3: he wanted to do. It made him happy, and I 569 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 3: can hear his voice even after he's gone. I'm just 570 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 3: so glad he got the finish shit too. 571 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 4: It's just perfect coming. 572 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 3: I know, I know, maybe that was his goal in life. 573 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 4: Maybe that's what he was supposed to do. Finished the podcast. 574 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And in a way, you're kind of finishing 575 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: it for him because this will be the last episode. 576 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 4: Yes, that's true. That's true. It's pretty special and I 577 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 4: will love him forever. 578 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: If you'd like to know more about do network or donate, 579 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: visit donetwork dot org. 580 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 9: Hello. 581 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 8: John Doe is and original productions by Revelations Entertainment in 582 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 8: association with First and Last Productions from Revelations. Our executive 583 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 8: producers are Morgan Freeman and James Younger. From First to Last, 584 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 8: Lindsay Moreno is the executive producer. Our producing partner is 585 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 8: Neo on Hume Media. It was written and produced by 586 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 8: Kate Michigan. Our editor is Katherine Saint Louis. She is 587 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 8: also ne On Home Media's executive editor. Our executive producer 588 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 8: is Sharah Morris. Our development producer is Ian Lindsay. Our 589 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 8: associate produce sir is Rufaro Faith Masarua. Sound design and 590 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 8: mixing by Scott Summerville. Theme and original music composed by 591 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 8: Jesse Pearlstein. Additional music came from Epidemic Sound and Blue 592 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 8: Dot Sessions. Bendall Faulton is our fact checker. Our production 593 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 8: manager is Samantha Allison from my Heart Media. Dylan Fagan 594 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 8: is our executive producer. Special thanks to Adelia Ruben at 595 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 8: Nie on Hum and Carrie Lieberman and Will Pearson at iHeartMedia. 596 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 8: I'm Todd Matthews. You can learn more about name us 597 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 8: at NamUs dot com. The number for the National Center 598 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 8: for Missing Exploited Children's Call Center is one eight hundred 599 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 8: the loss that's one eight hundred eight four three five 600 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 8: six seven eight. The National Sexual Assault Hotline from the 601 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 8: Rate Abuse and Incest National Network is one eight hundred 602 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 8: sixty five six four six seven three. 603 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: We have two more bonus episodes for you starting next week. 604 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: Next episode, we talk to an expert about late discoverers 605 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: adoptees like Steve Patterson, who discovered late in life that 606 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: they were adopted to impact that house on their lives. 607 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: Join us. 608 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 8: Okay, guys, this is the end of the show. If 609 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 8: you didn't like it, don't do anything. But if you 610 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 8: did like it, you make sure that you rate, and 611 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 8: review the show. It helps more people to find it 612 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 8: and hear this wonderful story. Thanks again for listening.