WEBVTT - Prelude: Pleasure is The Measure

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. I want you to think about your day so far.

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<v Speaker 1>You woke up and then what Maybe you took a

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<v Speaker 1>shower and paused for a moment to savor the sensation

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<v Speaker 1>of warm water on your shoulders. Maybe you bit into

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<v Speaker 1>a carrot and it was like you had never tasted

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<v Speaker 1>a carrot before, an astonishment of crunch and sweet and

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<v Speaker 1>earth and rain. Maybe you were writing in line somewhere

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<v Speaker 1>and a song came on that just happened to be

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<v Speaker 1>exactly the song that captured your current mood, and in

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<v Speaker 1>that moment you felt like the whole universe had your back.

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<v Speaker 1>This is pleasure, Oh my god, I mean so many

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<v Speaker 1>things are pleasurable, Honestly, just laying down with my boyfriend

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<v Speaker 1>in bed, listening to music I love asmr at the beach,

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<v Speaker 1>at the park, reading a book, just being in nature,

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<v Speaker 1>making ceramics or cooking, or painting my nails and doing

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<v Speaker 1>face masks, like pampering myself. What if every choice you

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<v Speaker 1>made about your sexuality was about following that feeling, that

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<v Speaker 1>feeling of yes. I'm Emmilinagaski. I've been a sex educator

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<v Speaker 1>for over twenty five years. I'm the author of two

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<v Speaker 1>best selling books. Come as you are and burnout, and

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<v Speaker 1>my purpose in life is to help people live with

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<v Speaker 1>confidence and joy in their bodies. And this is that

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<v Speaker 1>Come as you Are podcast where I answer your questions

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<v Speaker 1>about sex with science. Hi there, I am. I have

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<v Speaker 1>a question for you. I have a question regarding six

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<v Speaker 1>draws orgasm. How can I increase my spontaneous desire again?

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm just a little confused on that, and I

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<v Speaker 1>kind of point your advice. I would love some, hope.

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<v Speaker 1>I get questions every day from people all around the world,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're amazing, important questions that deserve great evidence based answers.

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<v Speaker 1>So that is what I'm going to be doing on

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<v Speaker 1>this podcast. Every episode, I'll answer your questions and bust

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<v Speaker 1>myths and misconceptions about sex. But before we even get

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<v Speaker 1>into talking about sex, we first need to talk about pleasure.

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<v Speaker 1>Whether you're having sex with yourself, with partners, or not

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<v Speaker 1>having any sex at all. Finding your genuine pleasure is

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<v Speaker 1>the bedrock of everything I'll be talking about on this show,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's relevant to everybody. In my quarter century as

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<v Speaker 1>a sex educator, everything I've learned can be summarized in

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<v Speaker 1>one statement. Pleasure is the measure Pleasure is the measure

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<v Speaker 1>of sexual well being. It's not about how much you

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<v Speaker 1>crave sex, how often you have it, or who you

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<v Speaker 1>do it with, or where or in what position, or

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<v Speaker 1>even how many orgasms you have. It's whether or not

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<v Speaker 1>you like the sex you are having, whether it's genuinely

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<v Speaker 1>pleasurable to you. And you can only get to pleasure

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<v Speaker 1>if you know what pleasure feels like for you in

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<v Speaker 1>many different contexts, and if you practice accessing it. And

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<v Speaker 1>you may be saying, Emily, how am I supposed to

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<v Speaker 1>remember what pleasure feels like in this post row capitalist

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<v Speaker 1>healthscape where our democracy is failing and we're teetering on

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<v Speaker 1>the edge of climate crisis and totalitarianism. Good question. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a question I've been asking myself over the past few years,

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<v Speaker 1>no surprise, and to answer it, I've had to get

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<v Speaker 1>really specific about what pleasure is and how to practice it.

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<v Speaker 1>I've had to relearn my own pleasure pathways and reconnect

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<v Speaker 1>to pleasures small and large in my own life. To

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<v Speaker 1>help introduce the life changing exercise of pleasure, I've asked

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<v Speaker 1>for help from a pleasure activist, writer and organizer, Adrian

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<v Speaker 1>Marie Brown. Pleasure it's not something that just happens to

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<v Speaker 1>you in the same way, like no one's ever just

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<v Speaker 1>going to ride in on a white horse and scoop

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<v Speaker 1>you up and take you off to Loveland. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>pleasure is a practice. Adrian's written half a dozen books,

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<v Speaker 1>including this gorgeous m dream of a book called Pleasure Activism.

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<v Speaker 1>My copy is highlighted, written all over, and filled with

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<v Speaker 1>page markers. It is a practical and poetic guide to

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<v Speaker 1>accessing greater pleasure. You ask in Pleasure Activism for readers

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<v Speaker 1>to consider who taught you to feel good? Yes, what

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<v Speaker 1>pleasure activism really is is reclaiming our right to have

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<v Speaker 1>pleasure and contentment from the myths of supremacy and oppression.

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<v Speaker 1>And for pleasure activism, the lineage is really Audrey Lord,

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<v Speaker 1>who as a black feminist poet and organizer. In nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy eight, she published this essay called the Uses of

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<v Speaker 1>the Eroticus Power and same thing she really talked about

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<v Speaker 1>what it means to be satisfiable and satisfied. Audrey Lord

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<v Speaker 1>is the origin story of understanding the connection between pleasure

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<v Speaker 1>and social revolution. I could spend hours talking about her work,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm just gonna say if you haven't read it,

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<v Speaker 1>or honestly, even if you have. The uses of the

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<v Speaker 1>erotic is on YouTube, read by Audrey Lord herself. After

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<v Speaker 1>you listen to this episode, take a break and give

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<v Speaker 1>yourself a gift. Sit outside or lay in bed with

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<v Speaker 1>your eyes closed, and listen to Audrey's powerful message. She

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<v Speaker 1>has the best definition of erotic I've ever heard. The

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<v Speaker 1>erotic is a measure between the beginnings of our sense

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<v Speaker 1>of self and the chaos and power of our deepest feelings.

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<v Speaker 1>It is an internal sense of satisfaction to which, once

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<v Speaker 1>we have experienced it, we know we can aspire. Once

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<v Speaker 1>we actually experience true erotic awakening to yes, to living

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<v Speaker 1>our lives, to a full yes, it becomes impossible to

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<v Speaker 1>settle for suffering. In touch with the erotic, I become

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<v Speaker 1>less willing to accept powerlessness, all those other supplied states

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<v Speaker 1>of being which are not native to me, such as resignation, despair,

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<v Speaker 1>self effacement, depression, self denial. It feels like she gave

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<v Speaker 1>us this key. It's like, Oh, if you have experienced oppression,

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<v Speaker 1>or if you're experiencing oppression, part of what's been taken

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<v Speaker 1>from you is the idea that you could be satisfied

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<v Speaker 1>in this lifetime and that you could have contentment and

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<v Speaker 1>small pleasures. There's so much about being a body in

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<v Speaker 1>this world that trauma happens, and life happens, and oppression happens,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you reclaim yourself And what does that mean?

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<v Speaker 1>That I say, of course, is extremely important to anybody

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<v Speaker 1>who does this kind of work, including me. I quote

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<v Speaker 1>it extensively. And one of the most powerful things for

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<v Speaker 1>me is the idea that erotic is not sexual. Erotic

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<v Speaker 1>isn't even necessarily pleasure itself. It is aliveness. It's aliveness

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<v Speaker 1>as someone who is in the process of menopause, aging

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<v Speaker 1>and disability and chronic pain. Recognizing that the discomforts of

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<v Speaker 1>my body when I can turn towards those with kindness

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<v Speaker 1>and compassion, patience and a welcoming that acknowledges their passage

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<v Speaker 1>through me, it increases my sense of like, I'm alive,

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<v Speaker 1>That sensation is there because I am alive, which is

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<v Speaker 1>really good practice for me to recognize pleasure when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to recognize its passage through me. It's my aliveness.

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<v Speaker 1>More after the break, I'm Emilinagosky and this is the

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<v Speaker 1>very first episode of the Come as You Are podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a prelude an introduction to the most important concept

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<v Speaker 1>of all pleasure. I know a lot about the science

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<v Speaker 1>of sexual well being, but science has its limits. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>the science of pleasure is very limited. Sometimes the thing

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<v Speaker 1>that really helps us to connect to our sexuality our

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<v Speaker 1>aliveness is not science. It's poetry, and that's Adrian's specialty.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe in the power of science. I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be a necessary part of how we make

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<v Speaker 1>the world a better place. And also the distance science

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<v Speaker 1>has gotten me as a sex educator is pleasure is

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<v Speaker 1>the measure of sexual well being. It's not how often

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<v Speaker 1>you do it, or who we're with, or even how

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<v Speaker 1>many orgasms you have. It's whether or not you enjoy

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<v Speaker 1>the sex you are having. But you get all the

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<v Speaker 1>way to pleasure is freedom. Yes, pleasure is the measure

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<v Speaker 1>of freedom. That's right. Was such a more expansive vision. Yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's related, right, It's all related. So freedom

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<v Speaker 1>is what my orientation is as a black liberation oriented person.

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<v Speaker 1>Right that I'm like, I was born into a context

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<v Speaker 1>in which my freedom was curtailed. My freedom was like

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<v Speaker 1>I knew that I should be freer than I was

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<v Speaker 1>allowed to be, and both in race, but also in sexuality,

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<v Speaker 1>in gender, and all these other ways. You know, Like

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<v Speaker 1>I was like hold up, I can feel inside myself

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<v Speaker 1>a different reality than what the world is telling me.

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<v Speaker 1>Even though my job is teaching people how to find

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<v Speaker 1>pleasure themselves, I sometimes struggle to practice pleasure myself. Too

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<v Speaker 1>often I fall into the trap of centering my life

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<v Speaker 1>around productivity, or what Audrey Lord refers to in uses

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<v Speaker 1>of the erotic as a travesty of necessities. The principal

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<v Speaker 1>horror of any system which defines the good in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of profit rather than in terms of human need, or

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<v Speaker 1>which defines human need to the exclusion of the psychic

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<v Speaker 1>and emotional components of that need. The principal horror of

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<v Speaker 1>any such system is that it robs our work of

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<v Speaker 1>its erotic value, its erotic power, its erotic life appeal

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<v Speaker 1>and fulfillment. Such a system reduces work to a travesty

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<v Speaker 1>of necessities. My producer Moan taught me the term chorgasm.

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<v Speaker 1>It apparently describes the feeling you get when you cross

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<v Speaker 1>the last thing off your to do list. Ach orgasm

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<v Speaker 1>can admittedly feel great, and we live in a world

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<v Speaker 1>that defines the good as making a profit instead of

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<v Speaker 1>meeting human needs. So it rewards us for being productive

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<v Speaker 1>and punishes us for our aliveness. So I, like everyone,

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<v Speaker 1>have fallen into the trap of focusing on my productivity

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<v Speaker 1>and forgetting to notice my aliveness. I know a ton

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<v Speaker 1>about the brain mechanisms underlying access to pleasure, and that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean I always have access to pleasure. What happens? So, like, I'm,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, writing a book. Yeah, and it's a book

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<v Speaker 1>about sexual pleasure. Yes, But I'm like so focused and

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<v Speaker 1>so stressed and so busy that I can't let go.

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<v Speaker 1>And there is a certain pleasure and joy in disappearing

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<v Speaker 1>into a work project God knows. But like, I have

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<v Speaker 1>a relationship, but a person I would like to feel

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<v Speaker 1>glad is with me. Yeah, that's right. I think there's

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<v Speaker 1>this piece, this journey from understanding stuff theoretically into the

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<v Speaker 1>being in the practices of it. There's this quote from

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<v Speaker 1>Octavia Butler in the Parables where she says, belief initiates

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<v Speaker 1>and guide's action, or it does nothing. And many of

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<v Speaker 1>us are socialized to be in states of obligation with

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<v Speaker 1>each other, states of polite lying. We are trained to

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<v Speaker 1>overdo everything in the spirit of capitalism, and we're trained

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<v Speaker 1>that our value is only about what we can produce,

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<v Speaker 1>which is very unsatisfying, you know, because you can never

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<v Speaker 1>produce enough. I say that as someone who's like I'm

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<v Speaker 1>like producing as much as I can, and I promise

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<v Speaker 1>you there's no like clique. Yes, that was enough, That's

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<v Speaker 1>not where satisfaction comes from. We will all be tempted

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<v Speaker 1>by the transient reward of being productive. And that's exactly

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<v Speaker 1>why Adrian is reminding me that we all need an

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<v Speaker 1>intentional practice of pleasure. Pleasure will take our hand. It

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<v Speaker 1>will show us how good it is to be alive

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<v Speaker 1>right now. It will remind us that we are already

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<v Speaker 1>enough and unlike the fleeting, fickle, shallow rush of productivity.

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<v Speaker 1>Once we start practicing pleasure in our everyday lives, then,

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<v Speaker 1>and really only then, can we find our sexual liberation.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not enough for me to just believe that I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sexually liberated and to build a whole system of beliefs

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<v Speaker 1>around how I should be, but it has to initiate

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<v Speaker 1>and guide my action. So at various points in my

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<v Speaker 1>life that has meant different things, right, but one of

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<v Speaker 1>them is I have a consistent practice of orgasm, for instance,

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<v Speaker 1>and not just orgasm. It's really broadened to just self pleasure,

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<v Speaker 1>because sometimes I'll find that the most healthy thing for

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<v Speaker 1>my day is actually to masturbate, but not to have

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<v Speaker 1>an orgasm, right to masturbate and just feel the pleasure

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<v Speaker 1>and feel connected to myself and deepen my breath and

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<v Speaker 1>notice what is generating desiring me in that day. And

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes it's a poem is pounding at the door of

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<v Speaker 1>my mind or the door of my heart, and I

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<v Speaker 1>could try to hold it off, or I could release

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<v Speaker 1>it and really feel the satisfaction of like, fuck, I

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<v Speaker 1>got it onto the page, Like that's so good. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>always asking myself how to make justice and liberation the

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<v Speaker 1>most pleasurable things we can do, the most pleasurable experiences

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<v Speaker 1>we can have as humans. So how do we bring

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<v Speaker 1>our attention back to like this gorgeous planet we've been given,

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<v Speaker 1>that it's facunned, and like we can just go lay

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<v Speaker 1>in the grass and receive sunline on us, and like

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<v Speaker 1>that is an orgasmic experience. One reason I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to Adrian is because I wanted her advice. During

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<v Speaker 1>the pandemic, I was working from home day every day,

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<v Speaker 1>so I spend the entire day writing in my office,

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<v Speaker 1>and then I emerge at six pm feeling productive but

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<v Speaker 1>drained and disconnected from my body. I find myself struggling

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<v Speaker 1>to get out of the headspace of productivity and planning

0:16:31.236 --> 0:16:36.036
<v Speaker 1>and into the headspace of pleasure, aliveness, and connection. Adrian

0:16:36.036 --> 0:16:39.836
<v Speaker 1>had a suggestion for helping me get into that different headspace.

0:16:40.396 --> 0:16:43.276
<v Speaker 1>You also might want to give yourself like a transition window,

0:16:43.636 --> 0:16:46.436
<v Speaker 1>you know, because I think sometimes that's the thing for me,

0:16:46.596 --> 0:16:49.716
<v Speaker 1>is like when I finish a piece of writing, or

0:16:49.756 --> 0:16:51.756
<v Speaker 1>if I do a big event, right if I'm doing

0:16:51.756 --> 0:16:53.876
<v Speaker 1>like a big event, and especially now in the pandemic,

0:16:53.876 --> 0:16:56.036
<v Speaker 1>it's like you might do like a massive event, but

0:16:56.076 --> 0:16:59.076
<v Speaker 1>you're still sitting in your house, in your potamia. But

0:16:59.156 --> 0:17:02.076
<v Speaker 1>I'm still like okay, but my whole system is flooded

0:17:02.116 --> 0:17:04.556
<v Speaker 1>with the energy of what I was just doing, and

0:17:04.596 --> 0:17:08.036
<v Speaker 1>so I need to take five minutes to you know,

0:17:08.076 --> 0:17:10.276
<v Speaker 1>for me my energy, It's like sometimes I'll go and

0:17:10.316 --> 0:17:12.556
<v Speaker 1>just put my feet on the dirt outside if it's warm,

0:17:12.876 --> 0:17:15.796
<v Speaker 1>and just like run that energy down into the earth

0:17:15.836 --> 0:17:18.916
<v Speaker 1>before I try to interact with anyone. Sometimes I need

0:17:18.956 --> 0:17:20.556
<v Speaker 1>a full like I need to take a bath, and

0:17:20.636 --> 0:17:25.236
<v Speaker 1>then I'll be a good human for other humans. Yeah, well,

0:17:25.636 --> 0:17:27.916
<v Speaker 1>thanks for solving that problem for me. I got it,

0:17:28.036 --> 0:17:29.876
<v Speaker 1>I got you. Anything else we need to attend to?

0:17:32.036 --> 0:17:34.356
<v Speaker 1>I mean that is like the fundamental circling question of

0:17:34.396 --> 0:17:37.516
<v Speaker 1>my life is how do I both do a job

0:17:37.556 --> 0:17:43.956
<v Speaker 1>I love and be a person around people I love? Yeah,

0:17:44.436 --> 0:17:46.716
<v Speaker 1>every day, at the end of the day, I do

0:17:46.756 --> 0:17:50.996
<v Speaker 1>a gratitude practice. And what I'm offering gratitude for is

0:17:51.076 --> 0:17:53.396
<v Speaker 1>what pleasure was I able to experience in this day.

0:17:55.196 --> 0:17:58.956
<v Speaker 1>Gratitude is a major theme in Adrian's work. One of

0:17:58.996 --> 0:18:03.556
<v Speaker 1>my favorite passages in Pleasure Activism is a poem titled

0:18:03.676 --> 0:18:13.476
<v Speaker 1>Radical Gratitude Spell. Radical Gratitude Spell a spell to cast

0:18:13.636 --> 0:18:17.636
<v Speaker 1>upon meeting a stranger, comrade, or friend working for social

0:18:18.076 --> 0:18:24.116
<v Speaker 1>and or environmental justice and liberation. You are a miracle walking.

0:18:24.796 --> 0:18:28.276
<v Speaker 1>I greet you with wonder in a world which seeks

0:18:28.276 --> 0:18:32.556
<v Speaker 1>to own your joy and your imagination. You have chosen

0:18:32.596 --> 0:18:37.636
<v Speaker 1>to be free every day as a practice. I can

0:18:37.756 --> 0:18:40.916
<v Speaker 1>never know the struggles you went through to get here,

0:18:41.596 --> 0:18:46.036
<v Speaker 1>but I know you have swum upstream and at times

0:18:46.076 --> 0:18:49.996
<v Speaker 1>it has been lonely. I want you to know I

0:18:50.116 --> 0:18:54.156
<v Speaker 1>honor the choices you made in solitude, and I honor

0:18:54.236 --> 0:18:57.716
<v Speaker 1>the work you have done to belong. I honor your

0:18:57.716 --> 0:19:03.116
<v Speaker 1>commitment to that which is larger than yourself, and your

0:19:03.196 --> 0:19:08.476
<v Speaker 1>journey to love the particular container of life that is you.

0:19:08.476 --> 0:19:14.276
<v Speaker 1>You are enough, your work is enough, you are needed,

0:19:15.076 --> 0:19:22.156
<v Speaker 1>your work is sacred. You are here, and I am grateful.

0:19:27.796 --> 0:19:31.956
<v Speaker 1>It's always radical to me that even on the worst days,

0:19:32.596 --> 0:19:36.076
<v Speaker 1>and even in the days where I'm like, I don't

0:19:36.116 --> 0:19:39.636
<v Speaker 1>understand this world and it's filling me with grief and despair,

0:19:40.076 --> 0:19:43.076
<v Speaker 1>but even on those days, there are small pleasures. And

0:19:43.676 --> 0:19:46.796
<v Speaker 1>even in my deepest grief, sometimes the only pleasure I

0:19:46.836 --> 0:19:48.596
<v Speaker 1>have is thank you for giving me something I loved

0:19:48.636 --> 0:19:52.116
<v Speaker 1>so much that I grieve it. But even on those days,

0:19:52.156 --> 0:19:56.036
<v Speaker 1>there's something I can notice. And that's the practice. It's

0:19:56.076 --> 0:19:59.636
<v Speaker 1>so simple, right, You think of one experience of pleasure

0:19:59.636 --> 0:20:03.836
<v Speaker 1>you had today, and you say it out loud, you

0:20:03.916 --> 0:20:08.396
<v Speaker 1>express gratitude for that experience of pleasure. But I've been

0:20:08.396 --> 0:20:14.276
<v Speaker 1>doing this or months now, and it has kind of

0:20:14.436 --> 0:20:18.316
<v Speaker 1>changed everything. It's not just that it makes me more

0:20:18.356 --> 0:20:21.636
<v Speaker 1>aware of the pleasure in my life. It makes it

0:20:21.676 --> 0:20:24.436
<v Speaker 1>so that it is so much easier for me to

0:20:24.556 --> 0:20:27.796
<v Speaker 1>get to pleasure so that in that moment at six

0:20:27.836 --> 0:20:31.716
<v Speaker 1>o'clock when I blearily step out of my office, I

0:20:31.836 --> 0:20:37.436
<v Speaker 1>transition into my aliveness so readily, and the world seems

0:20:37.556 --> 0:20:42.156
<v Speaker 1>so much more vivid to me. I walk past the

0:20:42.196 --> 0:20:45.516
<v Speaker 1>window where the aglianema is growing, and I see the

0:20:45.596 --> 0:20:49.356
<v Speaker 1>new leaf that is starting to unfurl. I see my

0:20:49.516 --> 0:20:54.436
<v Speaker 1>husband in the kitchen, cooking dinner for us, and literally

0:20:54.716 --> 0:20:59.156
<v Speaker 1>he looks more beautiful to me now because I am

0:20:59.236 --> 0:21:04.276
<v Speaker 1>training my brain to find pleasure more easily, to dwell

0:21:04.516 --> 0:21:11.516
<v Speaker 1>in a state of pleasure, beauty, joy, and love. Highly

0:21:11.516 --> 0:21:18.716
<v Speaker 1>recommend it. In the rest of the series, I'll be

0:21:18.796 --> 0:21:22.716
<v Speaker 1>answering your questions. Are you supposed to have six when

0:21:22.756 --> 0:21:25.436
<v Speaker 1>you get that old? What I'm saying, if you want it,

0:21:25.636 --> 0:21:29.596
<v Speaker 1>I do want it? How can I increase my spontaneous

0:21:29.676 --> 0:21:32.516
<v Speaker 1>desire again? On the podcast, I'd love to hear your

0:21:32.556 --> 0:21:36.916
<v Speaker 1>thoughts about sex after divorce, and as always, I'll be

0:21:36.996 --> 0:21:41.596
<v Speaker 1>joined by my producer, mo Hi mo Hi. Emily, you

0:21:41.636 --> 0:21:45.716
<v Speaker 1>want to plug the hotline before we go, do I?

0:21:45.716 --> 0:21:48.716
<v Speaker 1>If you have a question for me, call my hotline

0:21:49.076 --> 0:21:53.596
<v Speaker 1>six four six three nine seven eight five five seven,

0:21:54.316 --> 0:21:58.836
<v Speaker 1>or send a voice memo to Emily at Pushkin dot Fm.

0:21:58.836 --> 0:22:02.116
<v Speaker 1>Tell me your pronouns and name. Take a name, any name.

0:22:02.716 --> 0:22:10.516
<v Speaker 1>Your question might be answered on the show Commas You

0:22:10.556 --> 0:22:13.716
<v Speaker 1>Are is a production of Pushkin Industries and Madison Wells.

0:22:13.996 --> 0:22:17.316
<v Speaker 1>It's hosted by Emily Nagosky. You can find Emily on

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<v Speaker 1>Instagram at e Nagosky and on Twitter at Emily Nagosky.

0:22:22.276 --> 0:22:24.796
<v Speaker 1>You can also sign up for her newsletter at Emily

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<v Speaker 1>Nagosky dot com, where she writes about everything from the

0:22:28.716 --> 0:22:32.676
<v Speaker 1>clitterest in your mind to orgasm after having hysterectomy. It's

0:22:32.676 --> 0:22:37.036
<v Speaker 1>an incredible newsletter, Highly recommended. This show is co hosted

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<v Speaker 1>and lead produced by me Mola Board. You can find

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<v Speaker 1>me online at Mola Board and on TikTok at podcast

0:22:44.436 --> 0:22:48.356
<v Speaker 1>dot slut, Sorry mom My. Co producer on this show

0:22:48.436 --> 0:22:52.676
<v Speaker 1>is the fabulous Brittany Brown. Our editor is Kate Parkinson Morgan.

0:22:53.036 --> 0:22:56.756
<v Speaker 1>Sound design and mix by Anne Pope. Executive producers are

0:22:56.796 --> 0:23:01.676
<v Speaker 1>Mia LaBelle and leetal Malade at Pushkin. Thanks to Heather Fane,

0:23:01.756 --> 0:23:07.916
<v Speaker 1>Carly Migliori, Sophie Crane, Courtney Guarino, Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton,

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<v Speaker 1>John Schnar, and Jacob Weisberg at Madison Wells thanks to

0:23:12.876 --> 0:23:18.236
<v Speaker 1>Kylie Williams, Elizabeth Goodstein and Gg Pritzker. Additional thanks to

0:23:18.436 --> 0:23:24.476
<v Speaker 1>Rich Stevens, Lindsay Edgecombe Frolic Media, and Peter Acker at

0:23:24.596 --> 0:23:28.756
<v Speaker 1>Armadillo Audio Group. Original music for this series was composed

0:23:28.756 --> 0:23:35.116
<v Speaker 1>by Ameliagosky and arranged and recorded by Alexandra Kalinovsky. Additional

0:23:35.196 --> 0:23:39.476
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