WEBVTT - Robert Mueller Has Nearly 50 Questions for Trump

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. According to a

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<v Speaker 1>New York Times report out overnight, special counsel Robert Mueller

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<v Speaker 1>has at least four dozen questions prepared for a potential

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<v Speaker 1>interview with President Trump. In an interview with W mu

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<v Speaker 1>R Manchester, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who is

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<v Speaker 1>now a member of the Trump legal team, call for

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<v Speaker 1>an end to the Mueller investigation altogether. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>the American people are saying, okay, enough, put up a

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<v Speaker 1>shut up. I mean, you got something, Okay, let's go ahead.

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<v Speaker 1>If you don't, let's get it over with. Joining me

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<v Speaker 1>is Bradley Moss, a partner at Mark said, brad, let's

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<v Speaker 1>start with the timing. The Muller team doesn't leak, and

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<v Speaker 1>there are these questions have been in the possession of

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<v Speaker 1>the Trump team since March. Why do you think of

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<v Speaker 1>being leaked now? Well, I think and this is all

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<v Speaker 1>speculation because None of mus truly know who leaked it

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<v Speaker 1>or their ultimate underlying motives, but the consensus speculation is

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<v Speaker 1>that this is someone from within Trump's orbit, maybe not

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily on his legal team, of people who have access

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<v Speaker 1>to him and do his team's documents and understanding, who

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<v Speaker 1>are trying to dissuade the President from sitting down with Mueller.

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<v Speaker 1>They have seen the detailed nature of these questions, they

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<v Speaker 1>know how Muller would do follow up questions, and they

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<v Speaker 1>have the same type of concerns that John Dowd apparently

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<v Speaker 1>had about having the President sit down with Mueller and

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<v Speaker 1>address these questions. The President does not have a great

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<v Speaker 1>history providing clear and simple and concise answers in depositions,

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<v Speaker 1>and the idea of putting him in the room with

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<v Speaker 1>Muller and his team in this circumstances just not what

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<v Speaker 1>any credible lawyer would advise. I like that term consensus speculation.

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<v Speaker 1>I may borrow that from you. So these are just

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<v Speaker 1>basedly topics. Will the questions be more detailed and include

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<v Speaker 1>references to documents or the testimony of others? Give us

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<v Speaker 1>an example of what a question might sound like. Sure,

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<v Speaker 1>so these are we would started. We can kind of describe,

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<v Speaker 1>as you know, the starting off point questions. You use

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<v Speaker 1>this broader, more general type of question to start the

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<v Speaker 1>line of inquiry, and then, depending on how the individual

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<v Speaker 1>as such as the President in this circumstance, answers it,

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<v Speaker 1>you follow up and you follow the facts, and you

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<v Speaker 1>follow the explanations where they lead you. You can, of

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<v Speaker 1>course site back to existing documentation you may already have

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<v Speaker 1>in this type of situation. It's almost borders on axiomatic

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<v Speaker 1>that they would have provided the president's lawyers with some

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<v Speaker 1>kind of understanding of which documents would be an issue

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<v Speaker 1>that not. I don't see Muller's finding any real basis

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<v Speaker 1>here to try to stand back the president. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>get helps him in any way. So if there's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be emails, if there's gonna be memoranda, I think the

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<v Speaker 1>president will already know about it in advance. But you

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<v Speaker 1>use that initial frame setting question like the ones we

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<v Speaker 1>saw in the New York Times report to start your

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<v Speaker 1>lines of inquiry. You follow them from there. The questions

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<v Speaker 1>cover a broad range of subjects, and obstruction of justice

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<v Speaker 1>is prominent among them. What is Muller trying to find

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<v Speaker 1>out here? Well? At least two things. One is his

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<v Speaker 1>original underlying premise and mandate, which is was there any

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<v Speaker 1>criminal coordination or conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives,

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<v Speaker 1>whether officially part of the Russian government or people working

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<v Speaker 1>on their own. Um. That was the original premise, and

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<v Speaker 1>you stiff still are numerous questions in there in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of the Trump Tower meeting in summer of SI, in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of that very eye opening question about what the

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<v Speaker 1>president knew about contacts between his campaign, particularly Paul Manafort,

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<v Speaker 1>and Russian nationals in terms of providing assistance to the campaign.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was the obvious first step. But the other parts,

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<v Speaker 1>and you see it throughout these questions are how the

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<v Speaker 1>President responded both internally and in response to media reports

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<v Speaker 1>about the about the investigation, when he's firing Comey, when

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<v Speaker 1>he's pressuring the Attorney General Jeff Sessions to unrecus himself,

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<v Speaker 1>when he's trying to stop Jeff Sessions from resigning, when

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<v Speaker 1>he's pushing for possible pressure to fire the Special Council.

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<v Speaker 1>What Mr Mueller is trying to determine as if the

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<v Speaker 1>President had corrupt intent in how he was trying to

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<v Speaker 1>push back on the investigation, and if he did, that

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<v Speaker 1>would be a basis for Mr Mueller to recommend congressional

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<v Speaker 1>impeachment inquiry into the issue of obstruction of justice. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>favorite question of mine was it the Special Council asking

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<v Speaker 1>about the Special Counsel? What consideration and discussions did you

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<v Speaker 1>have regarding terminating the Special Council in June of what?

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<v Speaker 1>What surprised you? Any surprises here for you? Well, from

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<v Speaker 1>the collision angle, I mean, I think what race everybody's

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<v Speaker 1>eyebrows was this question about assistant people from the campaign,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly Paul Manafort, seeking assistance from the Russians. That really

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't been publicly discussed or there's been no come out

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<v Speaker 1>in any of the indictments or any of the official

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<v Speaker 1>disclosures by the Special Council. So if he's asking that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of question to the President, everybody's againting consensus speculation

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<v Speaker 1>is that Mr Mueller has something how subsittive, how concrete,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know, but he has something to indicate that

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<v Speaker 1>there's more to the story about how much the campaign

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<v Speaker 1>was willing to try to work with Russian nationals to

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<v Speaker 1>get assistance in the campaign, whether it's hacking of d

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<v Speaker 1>NC emails or releases of stuff of emails and documents

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<v Speaker 1>through wiki leaks. We don't know yet. That is raised

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<v Speaker 1>so many eyebrows is what does Mueller have there? Is

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<v Speaker 1>there more to the story and does that tie in

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<v Speaker 1>with the enormous pressure that Mueller's prosecutors seem to be

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<v Speaker 1>putting on Manaford in the in the cases against him. Yes? Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>And the odds are you know watching what Mueller's team

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<v Speaker 1>of Mulish tam sorry, what Manaforts team has been doing recently.

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<v Speaker 1>They're throwing everything at the wall that they can to

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<v Speaker 1>try to weaken Mueller's ace against him. Odds are you know?

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<v Speaker 1>Even the judges said this. Odds are Manaforms going to

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<v Speaker 1>jail for at least some period of time if he

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<v Speaker 1>takes this the trial. What he's trying to do with

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<v Speaker 1>his emotions he dismissed with his emotions to suppress with

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<v Speaker 1>the motion he just filed last night, in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>trying to get an investigation into the league. If he's

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<v Speaker 1>trying to pick and not and weaken the case against

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<v Speaker 1>him in any way he can to leverage it for

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<v Speaker 1>the best deal, best plea deal he can ultimately get

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<v Speaker 1>before he flips. You speculated in consensus speculation that this

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<v Speaker 1>was to send a message to show the president, you

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<v Speaker 1>know how how these questions are tough. And but Trump

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<v Speaker 1>tweeted this morning, no questions on collusion. That's the word

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<v Speaker 1>he loves to use. What does that reveal about the

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<v Speaker 1>President's knowledge of what he's facing, Uh, it's it's always

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<v Speaker 1>hard to know how much of that, how much of

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<v Speaker 1>what he tweets out and how he describes it is

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<v Speaker 1>more of a political act and political theater as opposed

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<v Speaker 1>to reflecting what he truly understands. I think he has

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<v Speaker 1>done a fantastic job of quote unquote working the reps.

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<v Speaker 1>He has made it through his media allies and his

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<v Speaker 1>own tweets, through his political operation at the White House

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<v Speaker 1>to beat back against the investigation, claiming it's biased, that

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<v Speaker 1>it's out of control, so that he's done it in

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<v Speaker 1>a way that no matter what comes out of this,

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<v Speaker 1>even if there is some type of evidence, some type

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<v Speaker 1>of indictment that proves there was some manner of quote

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<v Speaker 1>unquote collusion of criminal coordination, that there's a portion of

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<v Speaker 1>his political base that won't care. They'll think it's all

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't it's all deep state. Hi. Jenksdale never believe

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<v Speaker 1>any of it. And so long as he continues to

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<v Speaker 1>work the rest like this and make these claims the

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<v Speaker 1>way he does, he's going to be politically able to survive.

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<v Speaker 1>About forty five seconds. Here is your conclusion that after

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<v Speaker 1>this he will not talk to Robert Mueller without a subpoena.

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<v Speaker 1>If he listens to his lawyers, there is no way

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<v Speaker 1>on earth he sits down with Robert Mueller. Absentence pena,

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<v Speaker 1>not a chance, No lawyer would ever agree to it.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are the key words. If he listens to his lawyers,

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<v Speaker 1>which it seems that he has not been doing. That's

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<v Speaker 1>Bradley Moss. Thanks brad, He's a partner marked Z. Yesterday,

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<v Speaker 1>lawyers for the Justice Department and A T and T

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<v Speaker 1>Time Warner made their closing arguments in an antitrust case

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<v Speaker 1>that could forever change the media industry. Speaking with reporters

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<v Speaker 1>at the start of the trial, A T and T

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<v Speaker 1>CEO Randall Stevenson said that the Justice Department's case defied logic.

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<v Speaker 1>It stretches the very reach of antitrust's law beyond the

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<v Speaker 1>breaking point. All of this in an effort to stop

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<v Speaker 1>this combination. Joining me is Bloomberg New his legal reporter

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<v Speaker 1>Eric Larson, who was in the courtroom. Eric, there have

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<v Speaker 1>been lines to get into the courtroom at different times

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<v Speaker 1>during the trial. What was it like for the closing arguments?

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<v Speaker 1>It was a lot like at the start of the trial.

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<v Speaker 1>There were long lines. There are people who are paid

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<v Speaker 1>to wait in line for some of the more high

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<v Speaker 1>powerful people that have They're all day long. Uh. It

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<v Speaker 1>filled up two court rooms. There was an overflow court

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<v Speaker 1>room as well, and it was it was a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of high spirits on both sides. Everyone seemed thoroughly confident.

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<v Speaker 1>The attorneys had to consolidate six weeks of testimony into

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<v Speaker 1>an hour and a half argument, which is nothing for

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<v Speaker 1>a lawyer. What were their final appeals to the judge? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the government came back to its original argument over and

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<v Speaker 1>over again, which is simply that a T and T

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<v Speaker 1>after this murderer, would have too much bargaining power by

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<v Speaker 1>having control over time, warners, turner broadcasting content, which is

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<v Speaker 1>really powerful popular. Uh. And they say that this type

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<v Speaker 1>of vertical merger, even though it's it's not usually the

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<v Speaker 1>kind that they challenge, it's exactly what they need to

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<v Speaker 1>be looking at in this new sort of media landscape.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course the company said that this is the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of combination that they need to do in order

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<v Speaker 1>to compete with companies night like Netflix. The stakes are

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<v Speaker 1>really high for both sides. Here tell us a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit more about that. Well, A T and T is

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<v Speaker 1>really hinging its future on this, uh this deal, billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollar deal. Um. They say that, you know, the future

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<v Speaker 1>of their company is sort of at stake and being

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<v Speaker 1>able to compete with companies like net flips and Amazon

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<v Speaker 1>that are able to deliver their content directly to consumers.

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<v Speaker 1>And they have a lot more information and knowledge about

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<v Speaker 1>their consumers, which also gives them more power in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of advertising. Uh. So they're really staking a lot on

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<v Speaker 1>this and there uh there said they were pretty surprised

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<v Speaker 1>that they were challenged by the Justice Department on this.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh they thought that it might sail through. Um, but

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<v Speaker 1>that wasn't the case. And what about the Justice Department?

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<v Speaker 1>Might this change the way it does business in the future. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the Justice Department is definitely sent a

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<v Speaker 1>signal that this type of so called vertical merger or

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<v Speaker 1>two companies on the same chain are are are combining

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<v Speaker 1>rather than two direct competitors combining with that these types

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<v Speaker 1>of deals, which may have sailed through before, are no

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<v Speaker 1>longer going to be so easy to get approval on.

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<v Speaker 1>So um, if other companies like A T, T and

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<v Speaker 1>T and Time Warner are considering similar deals, they're definitely

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<v Speaker 1>going to be watching this very very closely to see,

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<v Speaker 1>uh what the government is going to do in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of they lose this case. And of course that would

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<v Speaker 1>be a huge setback for the government and it took

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<v Speaker 1>a leap with this case, and it would have been

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<v Speaker 1>factfire for sales. So Judge Leon will announce his decision

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<v Speaker 1>at a June twelfth hearing. Any indications that he's been

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<v Speaker 1>leaning one way or another, well, it's always hard to

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<v Speaker 1>predict what a judge is thinking, of course, But throughout

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<v Speaker 1>the trial against six weeks testimony, you know, the people

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<v Speaker 1>who were at the hearing sort of seemed to agreeing

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<v Speaker 1>amongst themselves a lot. That he was questioning the government's

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<v Speaker 1>case over and over again in different ways. Um. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to rule against them,

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<v Speaker 1>but he did seem to express some confusion about, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>the expert report by the governments that formed the backbone

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<v Speaker 1>of their case. Um. And actually there were some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of gotcha moments that the defense was able to produce

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<v Speaker 1>during the trial to show potential errors in the government's data,

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<v Speaker 1>that sort of thing. Um. So uh. And on the

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<v Speaker 1>day of the closing arguments yesterday, the ceo is of

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<v Speaker 1>both of the companies had flown in to attend and

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<v Speaker 1>and they did seem to be in pretty high spirits

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<v Speaker 1>talking with the lawyers before the proceedings got underway. So

0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.760
<v Speaker 1>the judges leaving time, he's making his decision on June twelve,

0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:45.320
<v Speaker 1>he's leaving time before the merger deadline for an appeal.

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.360
<v Speaker 1>So we assume that a T and T time Warner

0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.800
<v Speaker 1>would appeal. Is it likely that the government would appeal

0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:55.280
<v Speaker 1>as well if they lose. Um, I don't know. I mean,

0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.360
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I

0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.280
<v Speaker 1>think that they would definitely want to see the case through,

0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.760
<v Speaker 1>at least through an appeal, but that that's really just

0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:07.760
<v Speaker 1>a guess. I mean, it's uh, it's something that they'll

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.840
<v Speaker 1>have to wait and see, I suppose, but they haven't said. So.

0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.200
<v Speaker 1>This has really drawn a lot of attention. As I

0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.240
<v Speaker 1>mentioned at the top, when you look back at what

0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.440
<v Speaker 1>you've seen or heard about what stands out in the

0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 1>trial as most unusual. Well, I think, like we mentioned earlier,

0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.440
<v Speaker 1>it was unusual to a lot of people that the

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:34.280
<v Speaker 1>government challenged this vertical merger to begin with, especially because

0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.800
<v Speaker 1>a sort of a similar vertical merger with Comcasts and

0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.440
<v Speaker 1>NBCU UM. You know, there was there was a challenge

0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:45.119
<v Speaker 1>to that, but it was resolved through uh an agreement,

0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 1>and and one could have expects that have something like

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 1>that might have been reached within this case as well.

0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.480
<v Speaker 1>But it is interesting that, for example, the experts from

0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.559
<v Speaker 1>both sides were able to come up with completely opposite

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:03.079
<v Speaker 1>views of the marketplace and the data that they used

0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.880
<v Speaker 1>to come to opposite conclusions, even though they're both expert

0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:11.480
<v Speaker 1>economists hired by each side. The battle of the experts, Eric, Eric,

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.920
<v Speaker 1>do you do you believe that that's where it's going

0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.760
<v Speaker 1>to you know, the real decision is going to be

0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 1>for the judge and to which expert he believes or

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 1>more of the other testimony about a minute here. You know,

0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 1>I really do think that he's going to focus in

0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.160
<v Speaker 1>on these two experts. Uh. They came up one one

0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 1>said that the government's experts said that the deal would

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 1>raise prices for consumers by more than four hundred billion

0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:39.680
<v Speaker 1>dollars a year for pay pay TV subscribers was the

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 1>company's experts said that they would end up saving five

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 1>billion dollars a year or more or subscribers. So and

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 1>it came down to studies and and and data that

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.040
<v Speaker 1>some sides that was cherry picked and the other set

0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.240
<v Speaker 1>was not. So it will really be up to this

0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 1>judge to decide which which expert. He believes quite a

0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.960
<v Speaker 1>difference between the two experts testament. Many thanks, Eric, that's

0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg News Legal recorder Eric Larson. Thanks for listening to

0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.120
<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe and listen to

0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.880
<v Speaker 1>the show on Apple podcast, SoundCloud, and on Bloomberg dot

0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:16.400
<v Speaker 1>com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. This is Bloomberg