1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Tex Style from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poett. 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: I am an editor here at how stuff works dot 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: com and as usual, sitting across from me, I have 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: senior writer Jonathan Strickland, and I'm more than meets the eye. Okay, 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: So Chris and I just moments ago, uh we're sitting 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: here in front of the microphones talking about Internet relay chat. 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: So that podcast may or may not have have published 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: by the time you hear this, but during that we said, 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, we should really talk about another really important 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: part of the Internet that predates the World Wide Web, 14 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: but it's still around and uh, it's still playing a role. 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: It's maybe not nearly as as a big role as 16 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: it used to, but it's something that that we felt 17 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: needs to be addressed in an episode. Do you want 18 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: to tell them what it is? Yes? Oh? Now, yeah, 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: use net, use net. Yeah. As as a matter of fact, 20 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: one of the things that we mentioned in the other podcast, 21 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: um and and several of the podcasts we've had in 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: the past, is that not all the traffic on the 23 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: Internet goes from place to place using the same method. Um. 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: You have emailing, you have the web, UM, you have 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: file transfer protocol, UM. But in UH, in the case 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: of using net, it has its own protocol to deliver 27 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: UH news files, or at least that's what it was 28 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,199 Speaker 1: used for initially. Yeah, it's kind of UM. It's funny 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: because the terms that we're used to kind of define 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: what use net was early on stuck around, even when 31 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: you might argue that it's more like a message board, 32 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: like an old If you go to a website that 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: has a message board, a lot of the message board 34 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: stuff that you'll see on their kind of owes a 35 00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: lot to the early use net days. And UH it 36 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: relies on a Unix to Unix copy protocol that was 37 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: the original writ call for use net. So you use 38 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: CP is what we abbreviate that as, or acronymicize. I'm 39 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: just gonna I'm acronemonious. UM. Yeah, that actually that actually 40 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: changed m Yeah, because I mean if it had just 41 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: stayed Unix to Unix, then that would have really limited 42 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: the usefulness of use net. It would have been useless net. Well, 43 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: relatively useless net. Well, and you can actually you can 44 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: actually use the web for uh for a lot of 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: this now, so I mean you can. There are some 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: uses of using net that you really don't even need 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: a specific client, although you can still get them. But later, 48 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: a later class um sorry, later protocol that they developed 49 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: to provide use net services is n NTP or Network 50 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: News Transfer Protocol, right um, and that that became the 51 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: way of deliver bring messages UH for US net groups. Now, uh, 52 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: these are in a way it's kind of hard to 53 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: describe a US net group to someone who's never seen one. 54 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: But if you think about, um, maybe a discussion board 55 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: on one of your favorite websites, it's sort of like that. Um, 56 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: the the there is a board where there is a topic, um, say, 57 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: you know, fans of Beverly Hills nine o two one oh, 58 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: for example, and people can post messages pro or con 59 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: there just about anything for which there is a fan. 60 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: On one of these use net groups, you will find 61 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: people who are trolling. They're posting how much they cannot 62 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: stand whatever it is that other people are a fan of, right, 63 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: and that this other thing that is probably not related 64 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: to the first thing at all. Is obviously better. Oh yes, 65 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: So for example, I might jump into the Star Trek 66 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: uh fan discussion and talk about how Star Wars is 67 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: so much better than Star Trek and may not even 68 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: be that. I believe that, it's just that I decided 69 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to stir up some trouble. So yeah, actually, 70 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: us that's we can get into where where how how 71 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: much usen has contributed to the culture of the Internet. 72 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: Trolls are one of the things that first started really 73 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: popping up right around the days of eusenet. Let's let's 74 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: kind of go back a bit. Let's talk about the 75 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: development of eusnet. Okay, so I'm assuming you're getting ready 76 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: to mention Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis and as I 77 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: do it first, Oh yes, those guys, Um, yeah, so 78 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: they kind of came up with this idea. This was ah, 79 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: these were two graduate students with Duke University at the 80 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: time and the time being nineteen seventy nine, and uh, 81 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: they were thinking that they needed to update an older, 82 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: uh model of of accessing information through the computer system. UM, 83 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: that would be the old BBS model or Bolton board 84 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: system now Bolton board systems. I actually used these when 85 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: I was a kid. I mean I would log into them. 86 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: But a bolton Board system is much more limited than 87 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: you snet bolton Board system is. You would you would 88 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: not I remember dialing into them. You would use your 89 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: modem to dial in a specific phone number. You would 90 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: log into the bolton Board system, which is hosted on 91 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: a remote computer, and there you could uh interact with 92 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: other users by by posting to a discussion board. Um, 93 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: you could play games, you could transfer files, you could 94 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: upload stuff or download stuff, a lot of things that 95 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: you can do on the web now. But it was 96 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: very limited in that it was only stuff that was 97 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: on that one computer. It's not like you had access 98 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: to everything on every bolton Board system. So every bolton 99 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: Board system had its own culture, its own selection of files, 100 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: its own message boards. Also, it had a very limited 101 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: number of people that could be logged in at one time. Uh. 102 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: Normally it had like a series of lines open, like 103 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: phone lines open that could be occupied before it reached capacity. 104 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: And if you called when it was at capacity, you 105 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: couldn't get in. You'd have to wait, And which seems 106 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: weird now. Just imagine if you were to open up 107 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: your your web browser and you were told sorry, the 108 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: Internet is full. You're gonna have to wait until some 109 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: people log off before you can access it. But uh so, yeah, 110 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: it was just it wasn't like a network really. It 111 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: was you were all using one computer as almost like 112 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: a node, right, yes, and you you had a you know, 113 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: it was acting as a server. Your computer was acting 114 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: as a client. But there was no network. It was 115 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: just client server. That's it. Like a hub and spoke 116 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: right exactly, exactly. Yeah, the the host computer is is 117 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: right there at the very center, and then you're you 118 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: and all the other computers are on the edge connecting in. 119 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: So you would post messages to the hub and then 120 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: other people could read them and reply to them. And 121 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: all the information was there at that one central location exactly. 122 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: And if that one central location went down, then everything 123 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: was gone, ye until it came back up again. Usnet 124 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: is different. Usenet is more of a network system, and so, 125 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: uh Trustcott and Ellis had come up with this idea 126 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: of creating a system that would exist across multiple servers. 127 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: It would all be based on the same protocol and 128 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: you would build a essentially a message board, a news 129 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: group that where you could post articles about whatever subjects 130 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: you wanted and have discussions about those subjects, and UH 131 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: servers would contact one another and compare essentially their their 132 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: message boards, and anything that one server was missing, the 133 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: other server would send to it so it could update 134 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: its own its own database, and vice versa, so that 135 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: no matter what happened to any one single server machine, 136 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: you would still be able to access that information because 137 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: it would exist somewhere on the network, assuming that they 138 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: had synchronized somewhat recently. So UH it also meant that 139 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: you didn't have all these isolated conversations going on across 140 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: multiple bulletin board systems. That's what was happening before. Like 141 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: you might have a very strong fan community in Los 142 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: Angeles for Star Trek, Well let's just stick with Star Trek, 143 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: and then you have another really strong fan community and 144 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: say in New York City also about Star Trek. But 145 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: they wouldn't necessarily be logging into the same bulletin board system, 146 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: especially if they were using dial up modems, because they 147 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: don't want to pay long distance to have to connect 148 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: to it, So their conversations would all be regional. USENET 149 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: allowed a global conversation to occur because you're no longer 150 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: worrying about logging into one specific local computer. So it 151 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 1: was a revolutionary idea. We take it for granted now 152 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: because the Worldwide Web has been around for a couple 153 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: of decades, but at the time it was, there was 154 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: this idea of, hey, we've already got the lines here 155 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: connecting all these computers, and we've got the protocols that 156 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: support this kind of data transfer, the whole T c 157 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: P I P protocols. Let's build something on top of 158 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: this infrastructure that allows us to share information. So the 159 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: same sort of idea that eventually became the World Wide Web, 160 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 1: but in a totally different implementation. Okay, then, so there 161 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: are literally tens of thousands of using net newsgroups available 162 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: and they're still you know, that's it's still in in 163 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: pretty wide use. UM. You know that recently, I've i've 164 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: my most recent exploits on usinget UM. I've found several 165 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: UH communities that are are basically just spam magnets UM, 166 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: but there are still quite a few that are that 167 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: are very very popular UM. And using that actually has 168 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: a hierarchy to it. Yeah, that hierarchy wasn't always part 169 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: of usenet's history. In fact, the problem was that as 170 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: more and more information was being added to usenet, it 171 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: became difficult to navigate through all of it to see 172 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: the stuff that's relevant to your own interests, and so 173 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: they needed to come up with a scheme that would 174 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: allow people to post relevant things in discussions and make 175 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: it easier to find what you're interested in, so it 176 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't become an exercise and frustration. Part of that fell 177 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: to a group of people that became known as the 178 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: Backbone Cabal. That's really what they were known as, and 179 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: and that yeah, well, and some people argued that it 180 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: was sneaky and that the choices they made were not 181 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: representative of the community as a whole, something that we 182 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: see like in the background of wikis all the time. Now, 183 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: the same sort of problems happened with wikis. Whenever you 184 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: have a big, wide, open UH community, than any one 185 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: group making decisions is going to upset someone in that 186 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: community because it doesn't represent them. Right, So the cabal decided, 187 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: all right, well, we need to try and UH and 188 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: start um to organize this in a more efficient way. 189 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: And that leads up to, in nineteen seven, an event 190 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: called the Great Renaming Gasp. Yeah, so and the great renaming. 191 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: That was when things had come to a head on usenet. 192 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: It was getting far too chaotic and they needed to 193 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: find a way of creating a hierarchy that made sense. 194 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: And that's when they started making the the what was 195 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: initially called the Big Seven. Yes, it's the Big seven 196 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: hierarchical hierarchical groups. So you had things like COMP c 197 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: O MP for for any sort of computer discussion, comp 198 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: dot and then you could put something behind the dot 199 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: to specify, so you could do like comp dot hardware 200 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: and then if you want to get more specific, you 201 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: do COMP dot hardware, DOT monitor. So you would be 202 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 1: able to you know, break these down into subcategories so 203 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: that people could have very specific conversations and not have 204 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: to worry about, you know, cluttering up one comp thing 205 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: with every single computer topic no demand. And there were 206 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: other categories as well. There was you know s c 207 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: I for science UM. There was originally there was talk, 208 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: which was supposed to be kind of a catch all category, 209 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: but it was also monitored. This did not sit well 210 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: with some users because it meant that you couldn't have 211 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: true free communication, free speech because someone somewhere was monitoring 212 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: what was going on and could except or deny any 213 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: particular topic. Uh, which then led to what has become 214 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: probably the most famous or perhaps infamous hierarchy in usenet 215 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: alt ALT, which was not part of the Cabal. In fact, 216 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: that was a big, big selling point for the whole 217 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: alt things. What made it so popular so quickly. It's 218 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: kind of anything and everything really yeah, alt dot whatever. 219 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: It's Brian Reid is the guy who kind of spearheaded 220 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: that project to to create and he was one of 221 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: the people who objected to this idea of the cabal 222 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: backed high archies, saying that you know, if we if 223 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: we do this, it limits us too much. We need 224 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: it to be more open than that. And uh, this 225 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: was a place where frank discussions could be held on 226 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: any topic. Like reeds point was that he wanted to 227 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: open up a a topic under wreck r e C 228 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: which is for recreation uh dot drugs. He wanted to 229 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: create a topic for that to have discussion about drugs 230 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: drug use and was denied. Um. He was not allowed 231 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: to create a talk dot drugs group either, So he 232 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: decided to create this alt hierarchy, so so you know, 233 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: just circumventing the whole system and creating a new uh, 234 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: a new division that has nothing to do with the 235 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: Big seven. Um. And it took off. In fact, it 236 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: took off so much that it is the largest of 237 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: the categories, which is kind of ironic because all of 238 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: course stands for alternative, right, but now every ing else 239 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: is the alternative because it's the main thing. Kind of 240 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: like alternative music was in the mid nineties or exactly exactly, 241 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: the alternative music was the only thing out there. There 242 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: was no alternative. Yeah, and using grungy And that's the 243 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: thing is if you dirty hippie type seattle the thing, 244 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: go ahead, are you done? I was a punk rocker. 245 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: You and China anyway, so umtally was so welcome. So yeah, 246 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's a good point. You can't just say, 247 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: you know what, I wanna start a discussion topic about 248 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: my band and just go start a group. Uh, not instantaneously. 249 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: You can put it up for a suggestion and uh 250 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: and you know, once people have had a chance to 251 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: look at it and say, oh, well, you know, I 252 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: think that would be a kay or I don't think 253 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: that would be okay. You know, it can become a group. Um, 254 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: but it's it's not like starting a a an Internet 255 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: relay chat channel where you go, you know what, I 256 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: want to talk about this right now, and just go 257 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: start a channel. You have to actually have it approved 258 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: um by by the powers that be, which really are 259 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: kind of decentralized anyway. It's kind of weird. Frankly, again, 260 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: I think the the comparison to wikis is fairly apt 261 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: because wikies are often maintained by a community of users 262 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: and UH, and they often resist any attempts at any 263 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: single user trying to dictate policy. We we saw that 264 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: not that long ago actually with Wikipedia, where the co 265 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: founder Jimmy Wales went to try and delete material from 266 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: the Wikimedia Commons collection UM in in hoping to head 267 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: off any problems with with sponsors for Wikimedia. UH. And 268 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: as a result because of his because he didn't go 269 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: through the proper procedures and he bypassed the whole community aspect, UH, 270 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: there was a big kerfuffle over at at Wikipedia. Yeah. 271 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: And the same sort of thing happened on usenet all 272 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: the time and still does probably in some of these 273 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: uh and some of these news groups. It's not like 274 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: it's it's not really a democracy, UM. And the people 275 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: in charge aren't really completely in charge. It's you know, 276 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: it's a it's a little strain, it's a little wild 277 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: West out there. But you know, I think I think 278 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: the people who are are really getting the the or 279 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: nay votes are too people who have been established and 280 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: really entrenched in the usneture. Well, we we've mentioned earlier 281 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: that trolls were one of the uh you know, they 282 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: kind of emerged from usenet, and one of the most 283 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: common trolli ish tactics on usenet was to log into 284 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: any particular discussion forum and then start talking about something 285 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: that was completely off topic. And you're doing it on purpose. 286 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: You're doing it specifically to upset people. Or you would 287 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: log into a discussion group about a particular topic and 288 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: then start asking inane questions, or start asking legitimate questions 289 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: and then slowly have them morph into more and more 290 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: inane questions, just to see how far you could push people, 291 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: how long you could get people to respond to you 292 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: before they caught onto that it was all a joke 293 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: and uh, trolls really the whole purpose was just too 294 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: In most cases anyway, um, the purpose was just for 295 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: their own amusement to try and wind people up, see 296 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: how upset they could get them, or just see if 297 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: they could play a joke. Not all of them were malicious. 298 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: Some of them were really just pranks, you know, They're 299 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: more mischievous than malicious. And then there were others where 300 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: you would get people who were fans of one particular 301 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: UH discussion group and they would get real rivalries with 302 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: other discussion groups and would actually go in and spam. 303 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: That's another thing that came out of use spam. The 304 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: earliest the instances and naming of spam came from that 305 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: and people just coming in and posting ridiculous stuff. Because 306 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: that's another you know, if you post enough to use net, 307 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: you start to UM, you start to scroll content off 308 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,719 Speaker 1: of use net. Yes, because it only had a limited 309 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: amount of space to store UM data. And if you 310 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: went in and posted enough stuff, you could push data 311 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: off of use net and then people wouldn't be able 312 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: to access it anymore. Yes. UM. And since people were 313 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: using us neet to do things like not just have conversations, 314 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: but to host files UM where you could you know, 315 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: especially things like uh uh material that's under copyright UM. 316 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: There's tons of piracy that you can find on use 317 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: net of various kinds of materials yea. And that was 318 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: one of the things that that struck me as odd 319 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: because UM, I used most of my use net use 320 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: was way back in the early to mid nineties UM. 321 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: And then a few years ago I heard people starting 322 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: to talk about using Actually one of my favorite software 323 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,479 Speaker 1: of shareware developers came out with a brand new use 324 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: that client, and I was thinking, really, people are still 325 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: using that, And then I realized the correlation between that 326 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: and my Internet service provider putting a cap on the 327 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: amount of data that you could receive over use net 328 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: because I was thinking, since when did use that traffic 329 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: becomes so uh, you know, such an issue. And then 330 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: then I realized that I learned about the binaries groups 331 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: because you can break down a file into multiple pieces 332 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: and spread it out over multiple messages, and and the 333 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: messages are threaded. I neglected to mention earlier because that's 334 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: how you sort of follow the topic, is that they're 335 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: responding to posts and you can you can thread them 336 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: together and see, you know, where the conversation has gone. 337 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: We can also do that with binary files, and that's 338 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: how you know, rather than using something such as bit 339 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: torrent for example, people were shared ing uh, cracked files 340 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: or binaries of of other media that you know, people 341 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: were going on us it's and I think it's sort 342 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: of escaped attention simply because using net was old in 343 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: terms of the Internet. Yeah, you could. You could find 344 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: stuff software, images, music, that kind of thing, provided of course, 345 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: your i SP isn't blocking those groups, which it it 346 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily your your i SP doesn't have to carry 347 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: access to to use that they could block it. And 348 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: if they are blocking access to those groups, you may 349 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: not see them, you know, right in and go my 350 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: SP doesn't have those Well, maybe your IP is blocking 351 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: and they're they're i s p s that would just 352 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: put anything that falls under alt binary as you know, 353 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: they block it automatically, um, which you know, that's that 354 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: could be frustrating because there usenet was a way of 355 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: being able to share legitimate open source software. So it 356 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,479 Speaker 1: wasn't just stuff that was pirate ID or you know 357 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: that that was being illegally shared. There was there were 358 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,239 Speaker 1: legitimate uses to to uh to log in to all 359 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: binaries that had nothing to do with piracy stealing intellectual property. 360 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: But you know, it gets really really hard to separate 361 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: all of that out. And uh so most companies, most 362 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: I s p s, if they're going to block it, 363 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: would just rather paint with a broad brush than than 364 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: to try and have to determine, okay, well is this 365 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: is this group all right? And is this group not 366 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: all right? And why? And that's just one part of 367 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: I mean, the piracy was one part. Pornography is another big, 368 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: big thing on housnet, or at least it used to be. UM. 369 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: So there are some come I s p s that 370 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: would just block all the the groups that had anything 371 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 1: to do with pornographic content. Um. And I remember when 372 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: I in the nineties, when I would log into usenet 373 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: and look at the different groups, I was kind of 374 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 1: shocked at how many were dedicated to that in various forms, 375 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: especially when you're like, you know, obviously my education doesn't 376 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: extend as far as these people would, as I would 377 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: have sworn that three of these groups are saying the 378 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: same thing, but they're all arguing that it's something unique, 379 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: and I'm scared to see what they mean. You know, 380 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: it reminds me of a song. Um yeah, so maybe 381 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: we should just drop that part of this. So so 382 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: earlier I mentioned um that in general, you would want 383 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: to to get a Usenet reader, a client software client 384 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: to do this and that, and that's generally the way 385 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: you're you're going to go to get you know, more 386 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: recent postings. But there was a website that used to archive, uh, 387 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: postings from usenet and um and yeah, that's as you 388 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: were mentioning earlier, Jonathan also, um, usually the server will 389 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: basically slough off the old messages as the newer ones 390 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: come in to save space. They only say save up 391 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: to a certain point. Um. Well, as people were archiving them, 392 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: there was a website called dejan News that was keeping 393 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: track of all this. And if you were looking for 394 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: something in particular, um, and it was you know, from 395 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: five years ago or something like this, and you know 396 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: you saw this posting in this news group and you 397 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: didn't save a copy, Um, you might go to dejan 398 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,719 Speaker 1: news do this. Well, they were acquired by a larger company, um, 399 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: which you may have heard of. Is it Yahoo? No? No, 400 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: that Facebook, Twitter, It's gotta be Google. Yes, yes, it 401 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: became Google Groups and uh. They Google has has managed 402 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: to to keep um dejan news archives up and running 403 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: under the Google Group's banner, and there is quite a 404 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: lot of Internet history chronicled in the pages of Google groups. Yeah, 405 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: they've got a really really fun little uh timeline too, Yeah, 406 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: where they can tell you little things like uh, like 407 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: in auguste on usenet, there's the first documented review of 408 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: the ibm PC. Yes, and uh they have the first 409 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: mentioned of MTV you had June nine two. Uh, Actually 410 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: it's right after that, the first mention of Star Wars 411 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: episode six. Yeah, that would be a return of the Jedi. Actually, 412 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: if it's the first mention, I bet then they called 413 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: it Revenge of the Jedi. They might indeed have. And 414 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: so yeah, there are a lot of really cool little 415 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: first in here, like the February first me to post, 416 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: which would become a vain in people's existences of me too, 417 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: because it doesn't have had anything of benefit to the discussion. 418 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: It's just you wanting to Hey, I've been quiet for 419 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: a while and I need to talk now, me too. Um. 420 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: And then the most most important post in August four, 421 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: the first mention of the Commodore amiga. Oh yeah, of course. 422 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: How also July first mention of Bill Clinton h as well, 423 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: before he would become never mind, I'm not gonna go there, 424 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: No there's there's tons and tons of of information in there. 425 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: Um you could you could basically track you can even 426 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: track the first dot com um Internet company. Back to 427 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: when Brad Templeton mentioned clarinet um yep, I got like 428 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: the first mention of A O L the first mention 429 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: of the Simpsons. I mean, it's it's kind of you know, granted, 430 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: this is just a list that Google's compiled. It's not 431 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: like it's it's comprehensive, but it's just kind of a 432 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: fun little thing of seeing how you know, the development 433 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: of various technologies, cultural icons, that kind of thing. Um Like, 434 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: remember then, yeah, Tim berners Lee introduces the Worldwide Web, 435 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: which that was, you know, whatever happened that it's it's 436 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: it's still around uman. As it turns out, the Worldwide 437 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: Web would would take a big chunk out of usenet 438 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: traffic because a lot of the stuff eventually moved over 439 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: to the web, where you'd be able to find the 440 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: same kind of discussion groups or uh not usually in 441 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: in the same sort of format of usenet. I mean, 442 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: usnet was a catch all, right, it was it was 443 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: an enormous place to have discussions where you could discuss 444 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: practically anything. You can probably find a topic for whatever 445 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: it was you wanted to discuss somewhere on use net 446 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: and you still probably can. You might have to do 447 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: a little picking and choosing on on the different groups, 448 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: and it may not be that there are that many 449 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: people discussing it these days on the on the world 450 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: wide Web. Now, of course you'll find niche websites that 451 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: that might cover a small sliver of what you might 452 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: see on use net um. But but you know, it's 453 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: still there's still some of that hanging around the web. 454 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: Because it actually kind of in a way reminds me 455 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: of what an RSS aggregator does, because rather than going 456 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: to a niche website to have a discussion with people 457 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: about different topics, all kinds of different topics that you 458 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: were interested in, you'd have to go individually to those 459 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: websites you could if people were still using it like 460 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: they used to go to use net. Check your reader 461 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: and see the ten groups that you're really passionate about 462 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: in one play ace and then go through the messages 463 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: for each one, make replies and things like that. Make 464 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of a predecessor to r S 465 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: S readers. Yeah, I mean it's it just struck me 466 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: how similar those those were, and when you mentioned that 467 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: the niche websites. But it does have that advantage and 468 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: it does have a sort of a community feel to it, 469 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: um where I didn't used to Why you have a 470 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: strange lookin I just saw another thing on on the 471 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: date list that made me smile. Okay with that July 472 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: Terry Pratchett's first post on a dot fan Dot Pratchett. Yes, 473 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: so we're talking about that on the I r C podcast, 474 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: if you know, and if you want to go back 475 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: and listen to that or wait until it publishes, whichever, 476 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: we don't know. That's funny. Were referred in each of 477 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: these to the other one. So one of them is 478 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: going to have an Easter eggain. It's kind of recursive anyhow, 479 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: you'll get caught in a vicious cycle. But it's it 480 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: was it's really formative in the in the way that 481 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: it's sort of transition people from bulletin boards to the 482 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: Internet culture. Yeah, creating the whole the whole platform or 483 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: a global conversation about various topics, which you know, the 484 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: web has kind of taken that torch and and has 485 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: run with it, ran with it, but yeah, it's it's 486 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: you know, Usenet is where you see the seeds of that. 487 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: So definitely an important part of the development of the 488 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: Internet and Internet culture, you know, like we were saying 489 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: before with the whole trolls and the spam. Other things 490 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: really got started on Usenet that have become very popular 491 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: on online. Things like emoticons um not necessarily started on Usenet, 492 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: but it became popular there. And and some of the 493 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: various acronyms like b r B for b right back 494 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: and uh a FK for away from keyboard. You would 495 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: even you know, occasionally people would get into discussions where 496 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: it was happening about as close to real time as 497 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: you could manage on Usenet. I mean, it's not like 498 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: it was instantaneous. It wasn't like a chat program, but 499 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: people would still do that where they would post a 500 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: message and we're like, you know what, I'm gonna check 501 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: back in half an hour and see if if if 502 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: Bob has responded to this, because he was just on 503 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: and I've just responded to his message. Neat stuff. Indeed, 504 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: we'll have to talk about some other really important various protocols, programs, 505 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: things like that. That have been part of Internet history 506 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: that we maybe don't think about that often, but are 507 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: still you know, instrumental and where we are now why not? Yeah, 508 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: because that's kind of what we do. And if you 509 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: guys have anything you would like us to talk about specifically, 510 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: you can email us. Our address is tech stuff at 511 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. And until then, Christina taught 512 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: you again. Really soon for more on this and thousands 513 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: of other topics, does it how stuff works dot com 514 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: And be sure to check out the new tech stuff 515 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: blog now on the house stuff Works homepage. Brought to 516 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camry. It's ready, 517 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: are you