1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Past play around. 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 2: Today I'm taking a walk. This episode epitomizes the spirit 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: of this podcast series, conversation, music and joy. 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: What more do you need? 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 2: My guest today I'm taking a Walk is your Ma 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 2: Caucanon Grammy Award winning guitarist, singer, songwriter, band member and 7 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 2: Hot Tuna and Jefferson Airplane Rock and Roll Hall of 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: Fame inductee. I'm here at the fur Piece Ranch in Pomeroy, Ohio, 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty six acres of pure heaven, and 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: I'm taking a walk with your mcalcane. 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 3: Taking a walk with Bluss Night, who your I'm so 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 3: grateful to be with you here at the fur Piece 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 3: Ranch for the Taking a Walk podcast series. To say 14 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 3: that I've been eagerly anticipating being here would be a 15 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 3: vast understatement. 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 4: Sir, thank you so much for having me. Uh first, 17 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 4: can you just describe for our audience this slice of 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 4: heaven where we're going to be taking a walk? 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: Sure? 20 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 5: So, So we're in southeast Ohio, which is a really 21 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 5: it's a really interesting part of the state. You know, 22 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 5: Ohio can be a maligned state sometimes people think about 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 5: the the Cyahoga River burning thirty years ago, all that 24 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 5: kind of stuff. It's a beautiful part of the country. 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 5: It's it's relatively rural as these things are considered. It's 26 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 5: you know, the glaciers didn't get here, so we see 27 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 5: a lot of different stuff. It's just a really it's 28 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 5: just a really neat part of the country, rockout croppings 29 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 5: and where we were at the fur Piece Ranch best 30 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 5: of all, good neighbors. 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 4: Oh, I love it, I love it. Well, let's take 32 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 4: a walk. 33 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 5: Sure, well, let's head down the driveway here. We're going 34 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 5: to go down the way you guys came in and 35 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 5: as soon as we you know, as you can see 36 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 5: in front of you, this concrete strip here, this is, 37 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,919 Speaker 5: this is. This was a gravel driveway for many years 38 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 5: until about six months ago. So this represents unbelievable progress 39 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 5: on our part. 40 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 4: Now, describe the mission of the firth Piece Ranch. 41 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: Sure. 42 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 5: So we started the first piece France Gosh, I guess 43 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 5: a quarter of a century ago. So, and you know 44 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 5: what we wanted to do, you know, because I've been 45 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 5: in the music game for so long, but I've always 46 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 5: enjoyed teaching, is that we wanted to somehow put together 47 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 5: a teaching facility that made the learning process unintimidating, which 48 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 5: has always been important to me as a teacher. Now, 49 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 5: all the stuff you see here, there's all sorts of infrastructures. 50 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 5: Too bad, it's a podcast. People can't see this, but 51 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 5: they can always go to the website and have a look. 52 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 5: But in any case, all the stuff that actually got constructed, 53 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 5: that's Vanessa. If it was me, we'd be sitting on 54 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 5: a bail of hay in a field. 55 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 4: It's beautiful. I love the arrangement. It really makes you 56 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 4: feel comfortable, just as soon as soon as you arrive. 57 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 4: So well, you touched on teaching, and you've been a 58 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 4: teacher really since, you know, like the beginning of your career. 59 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely. So. 60 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 5: I moved to California in nineteen sixty two, and I've 61 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 5: been playing the guitar for a while by that time, 62 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 5: but just hanging out. And you know, I was going 63 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 5: to the University of Santa Clair at the time, and 64 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 5: I'd already become friends with Paul Kanner, who got me 65 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 5: in the Jefferson airplane, which is another story, but but 66 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 5: I was just you know, I got I played it 67 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 5: open mics and stuff all the time, but you. 68 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: Never got paid. 69 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 5: And I remember Paul said, do you ever think about teaching? 70 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 5: And I went, no, what would I teach? And he said, 71 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 5: how about what you know? And I thought, you know, 72 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 5: that's not a bad idea. So he got me into 73 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 5: this little music store in San Jose and Steven's Creek 74 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 5: Boulevard and I started teaching, and I taught well into 75 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 5: the first year of the airplane was together. 76 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 4: And you really took to it. 77 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the process. 78 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 4: Yes, But was it really like seeing, you know, the 79 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 4: glow in somebody's eyes when they really connected with something? 80 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely, you know. Yeah. 81 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 5: It wasn't just you know, shown up and teaching some 82 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 5: poor hapless kid who really didn't want to take piano lessons, 83 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 5: you know, because everybody really wanted to learn. But yeah, 84 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 5: seeing people get it, it's still exciting. 85 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 4: So do you remember the first time that you played 86 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 4: music in front of somebody and what it felt like? 87 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 5: Sure, I guess the first time that I did. It 88 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 5: would have been I can't remember. I was under ten 89 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 5: years old, so it probably would have been either playing 90 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 5: the recorder a little fluted flute like thing, or the piano, 91 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 5: because I was thinking piano lessons, and I remember, of 92 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 5: course that's intimidating when you're doing recitals because the pressure 93 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 5: on is to do exactly what you've been taught to do, 94 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 5: because that's what titles are all about. But but I 95 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 5: remember that, you know, when you nailed it and you 96 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 5: got a round of applause, you just felt good. 97 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, amazing, And then you had this friend that kind 98 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 4: of still has stuck with you through the years, right, 99 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 4: mister Cassidy. 100 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, So so yeah, I would have met Jack probably 101 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 5: in gosh, I guess probably in fifty six, I would say, 102 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 5: we've and we didn't start playing together really until fifty eight. 103 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 5: Let's take it right here, we're gonna leave the pavement, 104 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 5: we're going off. 105 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 4: Road here we hit our blinkers too as we did. 106 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. 107 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 5: Actually, so yeah, so I met Jack through his older brother, Chick, 108 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 5: who was who was actually a year older than me. 109 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 5: But but we became friends because we both like cars 110 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 5: and stuff like that, and and Chick was really into 111 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 5: had a huge blues collection, which was. 112 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: Sort of an anomaly in those days. 113 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 5: And I remember, you know, when I go over to 114 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 5: visit the Cassidys and he'd be playing this music. 115 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: I went, wow, that's really cool sounding so so even before, 116 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: let's take a left around this gate here. That way 117 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: we won't have to climb that hill or the gate 118 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: or the gate. 119 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 5: Yeah so yeah, so, you know, just as the quick aside. 120 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 5: Since we're in the country here, there's a there's an 121 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 5: old joke about how do you tell there's three three 122 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 5: cowboys in a truck, how can you tell who's the 123 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 5: real cowboy? And the answer it is is the guy 124 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 5: in the middle, because he doesn't have to drive, he 125 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 5: doesn't have to get out and open the gate. 126 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 4: But anyway, yes, by the way, we could do as 127 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 4: many quick as sides as you need. Oh sure, that's 128 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 4: the beauty of taking a walk and doing podcasts. 129 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 5: No rules, no so anyway, so yeah, so so that 130 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 5: he got me fired up just listening to the music, 131 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 5: and and that was way. That was before I was 132 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 5: playing the guitar. And then then subsequently, in that same 133 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 5: time period, another guy from the nameighborhood, Michael OLIVERI had 134 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 5: been playing the guitar. See, I've been away for three years. 135 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 5: My dad was stationed in Pakistan. When I came back 136 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 5: there there was a uh, there's a big difference in 137 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,679 Speaker 5: my friends. All the neighborhood girls look like young women. 138 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 5: You know, when you leave in your ten or eleven, 139 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 5: they don't look like that. Yeah, when you come back 140 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 5: there in high school they do look like that. Yeah, 141 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 5: and all that kind of stuff. So it was it 142 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 5: was sort of like a momentous time on a lot 143 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 5: of on a lot of levels. But yeah, so so 144 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 5: Michael Oliverry started to teach me to play, and you know, 145 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 5: I started getting into this and that, and Jack, of course, 146 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 5: really unbeknownst to me, had been taking jazz guitar lessons 147 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 5: at the time, and we didn't really start playing together 148 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 5: for a couple of years until I came back my 149 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 5: parents were stationed in the Philippines, and I came back 150 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 5: to my senior year of high school and and that's 151 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 5: where we started playing together. 152 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 4: So you that was your first official band with Jack, right. 153 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 5: Well, yeah, we're using the term official loosely, but uh yeah, 154 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 5: let me let me just quickly throw this giant twig 155 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 5: out of the way here. Uh yeah, I you know, 156 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 5: now we talk about garage bands, and I've got to 157 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 5: say that ours wasn't a garage band because my grandfather's 158 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 5: car was in the garage. 159 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: We were a living room band. 160 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 4: What was the name of that band. 161 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 5: That name of that band was the Triumphs because we 162 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 5: liked Triumph motorcycles and the Triumph logo looked good on 163 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 5: a drumhead. 164 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 4: Oh I love that. Did you play any paying, uh 165 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 4: paying gig? 166 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 5: So? Our first paying gig was for one of the 167 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 5: neighborhood girls named Charlotte Harbor. We had They had sororities 168 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 5: in the in high school back in those days. And uh, yeah, 169 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 5: so so we I think we played. I think we 170 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 5: made about five bucks for playing that show. And remember 171 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 5: we went to the Hot Shops, which was the only 172 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 5: drive through in the neighbor of those days, and. 173 00:08:58,679 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: Got a burger and a shake. 174 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 4: Oh I love that. 175 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: I see that. We have to have a chainsaw job 176 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: ahead of me. 177 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 4: Did you realize that this taking a walk was going 178 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 4: to be creating work for you? 179 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: You know? Yes, says I don't have to do it 180 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: that often. The chainsaw is kind of fun. 181 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 5: It's like it's like mowing the lawn, and it's fun 182 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 5: for the first time, sort of fun for the second time, 183 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 5: and after that you hire somebody. 184 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. 185 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. Did you have some storms here in road? 186 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, we had some high winds actually, and these are 187 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 5: all dead as you can see, but I will deal 188 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 5: with them when the weather's a little warmer. 189 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: There you go. So you then were. 190 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 4: Playing, uh, you know in in California obviously in coffee 191 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 4: houses and stuff. You had a little, uh collaboration or 192 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 4: two with Janis Joplin. 193 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: Right, yes, correct. 194 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 5: So so you know, before I moved out to California 195 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 5: because I went to Antioch College and uh, they had 196 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 5: this co op job program, and I had a co 197 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 5: op job in the summer of nine ten, nineteen sixty 198 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 5: in New York, I worked at the Rusk Institute of 199 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 5: Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation. I was an attendant and of course, 200 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 5: as I from just playing and paying rent my first 201 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 5: apartment all that kind of stuff, that was sort of 202 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 5: like the big folks scare. So there was lots of 203 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 5: lots of hoots and open mics and stuff like that. 204 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 5: So by the time I moved to California, which is 205 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 5: a couple of years later, I was that's what I 206 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 5: looked for immediately, and the good news was there was 207 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 5: a lot of that in California. 208 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, right, And so what was it like being with Jannistud? 209 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 5: So it was the first I've told this story many times, 210 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 5: but it never gets old. It was the first weekend 211 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 5: that I was in Santa Clara and I saw a 212 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 5: little mimiograph sign on the campus. It said who Danny 213 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 5: at the folk there? And I went, well, wow, that'll 214 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 5: make me feel right at home. So so I went, 215 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 5: I got a ride cause I didn't have a car, 216 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 5: then got a ride to the to the coffee house 217 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 5: and uh, and there was a couple of people in 218 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 5: this tiny, little backstage I mean this this, this is 219 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 5: a little storefront place, tiny, and sitting in this little 220 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 5: backstage closet like area was me. I met Janie. There 221 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 5: was a guy named Richmond Talbot, and uh, you know. 222 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: And Janie. 223 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 5: Wasn't what I don't I didn't even know whether she 224 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 5: played guitar at the time or not, but she didn't 225 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 5: have a guitarist with her. But we just started talking 226 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 5: and it became apparent that my style would work with her. 227 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 5: And she asked me if I would company her, and 228 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 5: I said yes, And it's it's one of those things 229 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 5: that's turned out to be, you know, a great honor 230 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 5: in the course of my life. 231 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 4: I mean, of course, she had no idea where her. 232 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 5: Career was going not no, of course not because I 233 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 5: didn't even know the word career back in those days, right, 234 00:11:58,160 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 5: But I knew I was in the presence of greatness. 235 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: I knew that immediately. 236 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 4: It's amazing. 237 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: Wow. 238 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 4: So then this little thing called the airplane happens. 239 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, so that, uh, that didn't happen un till sixty 240 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 5: five or some years later. But the evolving scene of 241 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 5: the Bay Area, I mean, you know, if you think 242 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 5: about what a fertile ground it was, were some of 243 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 5: the people that became luminaries of that time. I mean, 244 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 5: you know, Garcia, the guys in The Grateful Dead, Janice, 245 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 5: the Big Brother, I mean, all those guys. I mean 246 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 5: everyone was just doing like folky kind of stuff. All 247 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 5: those people existed in various different configurations back then. 248 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: But as before, it happened, but it was. 249 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 4: Really just the love of music hanging out right. Yeah, 250 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 4: it just it was. 251 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: It was. 252 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 4: Effortless really in its own way totally. 253 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 5: I mean, it's just it's what we did. Now, let's 254 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 5: go down the hill here, all right. Uh yeah, It's 255 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 5: just what we did. And we would have done it 256 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 5: anyway because that's what was happening for those of us 257 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 5: in that world. 258 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 4: But everybody loved hanging out totally, and there was probably 259 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 4: a no jerks allowed kind of rule. 260 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: You know. 261 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 5: Honestly, thinking back, I just don't remember there being very 262 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 5: many jerks back then. I mean, I'm sure there were, 263 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 5: but yeah, they didn't seem to gravitate into the music circles. 264 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, look at this this rock formation here. 265 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm gonna I'm gonna show you there's a 266 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 5: there's a little bit of graffiti from the eighteen hundred 267 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 5: shisel other day. 268 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: Wow. I love that. 269 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 4: So the original formation obviously of the Airplane included various 270 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 4: different members. Yeah, and it evolved, and I love how 271 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 4: ultimately Jack Cassidy joint Sure he hadn't even played bass, right, 272 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 4: I mean. 273 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: No, he's been playing bass for a number of years, 274 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: but I never heard him play. Okay, that's the funny 275 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: thing about it. 276 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 5: But but just knowing what a meticulous guy he is, 277 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 5: some might say anal but I'll use the word meticulous, but. 278 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think he probably would have 279 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: said meticulous. 280 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 5: But but but just knowing how he was when we 281 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 5: were looking for a bass player, I knew. 282 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: He would be great and he didn't disappoint just. 283 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 4: The student of it all too totally. Yeah, yeah, it 284 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 4: still is. 285 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean, I mean that's the thing about 286 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 5: being a musician, Jack, Can I talk about this. We're 287 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 5: always students, you know that is it never gets old? 288 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 4: Did you learn a new way, a new piece of equipment, right. 289 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: A new harmony, a new I mean, there's always something 290 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: to set you on fire? 291 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 4: And is there a particular time of day? I know 292 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 4: we're chronological here, but I'm going off off path a 293 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 4: little in there is there a time of day where 294 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 4: you feel most creative? 295 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: You know? 296 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 5: I think it's just you didn't have to wait until 297 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 5: until the muse calls, and and when then when it calls, 298 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 5: you really need to answer it because if you clear 299 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 5: the table or take the trash out or something, that 300 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 5: moment will be gone, Which is why I think it 301 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 5: makes it difficult on some level, a little more difficult. 302 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 5: You know, when you get older you're dealing with family 303 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 5: and stuff like that, because sometimes the trash hass to 304 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 5: go out, right, you know. You know, back in those 305 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 5: early days, when all we had to do was play music, 306 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 5: it was easy to heat the call. 307 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 4: So the venues that the airplane played in during that 308 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 4: period were pretty remarkable. I was fortunate to be in 309 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 4: one of those venues some years ago to fill More East, right, 310 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 4: of course. But what were some of your favorite venues 311 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 4: during I think. 312 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 5: The film Urrease would certainly be one of those. I mean, 313 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 5: the Filmore in San Francisco. Obviously, it's still there even 314 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 5: though you look at it today. I mean, and now 315 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 5: to refine music venue. Back then, the stage was like 316 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 5: three inches tall really, and it's you know, it was 317 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 5: kind of like a revival hall really. But yeah, when 318 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 5: you mentioned the film Maurice, I mean, there was something 319 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 5: about that place that I guess all of us in 320 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 5: the play they will always remember. I mean, there are 321 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 5: so many great gigs back in the Grandee Ballroom in Detroit. Gosh, 322 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 5: I should keep a list of these things. But at 323 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 5: the head of the list, I'd have to say is 324 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 5: the film Maurice. 325 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 4: And the way that the gigs were constructed back then, 326 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 4: in terms of the bills right, always fascinated me. It 327 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 4: was really things that were congruous and other things that 328 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 4: were not right right. 329 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 5: So Bill Graham was really an inventive booker of shows, 330 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 5: and I've honestly I doubt that an audience today would 331 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 5: really tolerate your average audience. 332 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: They go to see the stars, they hate the opening act. 333 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 5: You know, we always talk with the DA the dreaded 334 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 5: opening act. 335 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: But it wasn't like that back then. 336 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 5: I mean, the show was the show, and whether there's 337 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 5: a Russian poet or Lawrence Ferlapaghetti or Charles Charles Lloyd 338 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 5: Jazz or Jefferson airplayer, grateful that it didn't matter. 339 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 4: The one that I saw, I had Joe Cocker on 340 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 4: the bill, actually right, and. 341 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: This was. 342 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 4: August eighth, nineteen sixty nine, boof. And what I also 343 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 4: remember about it is someone from the band set at 344 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 4: that concert. We're going to be doing this free show 345 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 4: in Central Park this Sunday, and we're inviting these friends 346 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 4: who haven't released their new album yet named Santana. And 347 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 4: I was fortunate enough to not only see that film 348 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 4: wore show, but then go to the Central Park event 349 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 4: as well. 350 00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 351 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 5: I mean the first time I saw Santana because I 352 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 5: just heard him as a as a talented kid that 353 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 5: the music I heard him play was more blues oriented 354 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 5: in San Francisco. But when we did our show at 355 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 5: UH at Woodstock and we saw Santana earlier, it was a. 356 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: It was an eye opener. Let me tell you. 357 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,959 Speaker 4: So these the free concert thing that did you guys 358 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 4: kind of you and the Dead sort of start that 359 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 4: kind of idea. 360 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 5: Then I guess we are probably the more publicly visible 361 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 5: people to start that. But in San Francisco there are 362 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 5: a lot of organization, the Diggers, the White Panthers, all 363 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 5: kinds of folks that did free stuff in the park. 364 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 5: So it's just kind of what we did. And I 365 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 5: think we were we were we were more visible. So people, 366 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 5: you know, did you enjoy those? 367 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely? So? 368 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 4: Was there was there any particular, you know, big moment 369 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 4: free concert that stands out the most? Wow? 370 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 5: I'm I think it probably would have been one of 371 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 5: those human being ones in San Francisco would probably be 372 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 5: one of. 373 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 4: Them, right yeah. And there was a multitude of acts 374 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 4: on those Oh my. 375 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 5: God, well right yeah, I mean it was an all 376 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 5: the event. So listen where we're walking here. This is 377 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 5: the I believe it's the north fork of the Shade River. 378 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 5: We use the term river loosely here, but if it 379 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 5: was the right season, we could be looking for morells 380 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 5: because I can't tell you exactly where they are, but 381 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 5: there are some down here. 382 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 4: Really. Wow, I love that. So I also remember, and 383 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 4: I wanted to ask you, there were moments that the 384 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 4: airplane played but Paul Cantner and Grace didn't show up, 385 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 4: or had previous commitment or got lost. 386 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: What do you remember. 387 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 4: About missing an action band members? 388 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 5: You know, to be honest with this is one of 389 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 5: the things that I probably should remember, just just as 390 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 5: an aside here too. 391 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: Manage if folks can't seen this, see that thing over there. 392 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 5: We made a bridge, but the water is taking this 393 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 5: bridge down and now it's laying on. 394 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: The other side of the river. Oh yeah, I could 395 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: fancy that. 396 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 5: So so look at all the look at all the 397 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 5: stuff here, look at all the silt nor you know, 398 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 5: as time goes on. Wish the folks could see this. 399 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 5: As time goes on, this will be almost dry, but 400 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 5: you can see when the water comes up, even where 401 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 5: we're standing would be under six feet of water. 402 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. 403 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 5: Interesting anyway, Yeah, missing band members. So you know, I wish, 404 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 5: I wish I could weigh in on this with some authority, 405 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 5: but I can't. 406 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 4: So Hot Tuna came out of the fact that wait, 407 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 4: hold on, what is this here? 408 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: That's part of a deer. I would say, yeah, I. 409 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 5: Would say that's part of a deer. Or now that 410 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 5: maybe it's not that big. It could be a coyote 411 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 5: or so, yeah, it could be a coyote. 412 00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: Wow. 413 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 5: An artifact, I love it. Here's here's an old LP tank. 414 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 5: There's an artifact. All the stuff that we're down here 415 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 5: would be underwater. 416 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 417 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 4: Oh man, what a glorious place. 418 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: Is this? 419 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 4: Amazing? 420 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 5: Wow, a bunch of stuff. I've been down here this 421 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 5: for a while. Those trees falling over that snow, Holy moly. 422 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 6: So hot Tuna was born out of the fact that 423 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 6: you guys wanted to play as long as you could. 424 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 5: Right, well, so that's you know, Jack and I never 425 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 5: quit playing. We always we always played together and and 426 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 5: and for the most part it was me playing acoustic 427 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 5: guitar and him playing an electric bass of some sort. 428 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 5: The first time that I that I remember, too bad. 429 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 5: We don't have Jack Heart to weigh in on this. 430 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 5: The first time I remember that we actually played in 431 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 5: public like that was at the Fillmore East and in 432 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 5: the in the course of an airplane show, Paul said, 433 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 5: why don't you guys play something? And we did, and 434 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 5: people like that, I mean, we just enjoyed doing that. 435 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 5: I think as soon as we became aware of that, yeah, 436 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 5: we need to do this. And the airplane format, you know, 437 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 5: the airplane was just a rock solid show back in 438 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 5: those days, and not all venues would have entertained that 439 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 5: much of a fa sort of an idiosyncratic Vegas the 440 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 5: film where East you could do anything. It was like 441 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 5: being in San Francisco, but it was in New York. 442 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 5: But so I think that sort of opened our eyes 443 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 5: to the fact that we. 444 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: Could do that. And we we were very lucky. 445 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 5: Because we had no financial pressures on us to make 446 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 5: it as a band because we were in another band 447 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 5: at the time, right, So so we can actually do 448 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 5: that and not worry about whether we got paid or 449 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 5: not stuff, which is a situation most bands will never 450 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 5: have to deal with. 451 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: You'll always worry about getting paid. That would come later. 452 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 4: What a freeing, you know, remarkable thing to have, right 453 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 4: So that, but the band, it was so amazing about Hattuna. 454 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 4: Other than a couple of moments where you guys you know, 455 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 4: split off and did other things. Jack obviously did his thing. 456 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 4: I mean mean, the band has endured and still endures 457 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 4: and people. 458 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 1: Love the band. 459 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 4: What do you think is the secret to that? 460 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: You know, First of. 461 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 5: All, I got to say, Jack and I are so 462 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 5: lucky that that is the case, you know, And I'm 463 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 5: not sure what the secret is because it's hard to 464 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 5: look through somebody else's eyes. 465 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: But I suspect that part. 466 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 5: Of the equation is that Jackson My music is really honest. 467 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 5: You know, if you like it, we love that. Obviously 468 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 5: you don't like it. That's just the way it is. 469 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 5: But we've never tried to ever be anybody but who 470 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 5: we are authenticity, and people have accepted that. 471 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 4: Right. That's not always the case, right right, right? But 472 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 4: where did radio play into in your mind? Certainly the airplane, sure, 473 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 4: but also hot Tuna. 474 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 475 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 5: So I mean so this, you know, the quote unquote 476 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 5: kids today wouldn't get this at all. 477 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: Do you mind walking into this mud here? By the way? 478 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: Not mine? Okay? 479 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 5: So yeah, so, Fmber, the the rise of FM radio, 480 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 5: non format of FM radio was hugely important to all 481 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 5: of us back then. You know, how Tune was not 482 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 5: a hit band, so we never would have gotten played 483 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 5: on AM radio ever. And so the fact that uh 484 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 5: that that that that cool FM stations and stuff played 485 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 5: all the cool music just was golden for all of us. 486 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 4: And certainly New York was a bastion for that, and 487 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 4: you know San Francisco was what other markets were that 488 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 4: you remember that were bastions of it for both the 489 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 4: airplane and. 490 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 5: Patoon of any place, any place that counter so called 491 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 5: counterculture existed, you know, for example, Chicago obviously, uh La 492 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 5: to a much lesser extent in my opinion, but places 493 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 5: like Kansas City had a huge canterculture thing. I mean 494 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 5: even back at either like Oklahoma City, Kansas City, you 495 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 5: know that you never know were you're going to be somewhere. 496 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 5: I remember playing farther North Dakota and it was happening there. Huh, 497 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 5: So you just never know where. That's kind of stuff's 498 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 5: going to happen, big city wide, Los Angeles to a 499 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 5: lesser degree, but I remember, yeah, I'd say Chicago, New York, 500 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 5: the DC area, Miami, Boston, absolutely sure, Detroit, Detroit, sure yeah. 501 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 4: And during the times than obviously things bubbled under musically, right, 502 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 4: things bubbled under politically. Do you ever look at now 503 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 4: with what's going on in the world and wonder why 504 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 4: there's not more bubbling musically relating right times? 505 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: That's interesting. 506 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 5: I've got a twenty five year old son and a 507 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 5: almost sixteen year old daughter to love music, and you 508 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 5: talk to them, and of course they're into what they're into, 509 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 5: and they both have good. 510 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: Tastes in music. 511 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 5: But most of the stuff they listen to I wouldn't 512 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 5: listen to, not because the music, but because the lyrics 513 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 5: don't speak to me. If you think about back in 514 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 5: quote unquote the day that we're talking about, if you 515 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 5: think about how important, how inextricably intertwined the popular music 516 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 5: was with the social events of the time, I'm going 517 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 5: out on a limb here because I'm not really tuned 518 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 5: into it. 519 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:33,719 Speaker 1: I don't see that today. 520 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 5: Yes, there are writers that write stuff that's extremely current, 521 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 5: but I mean, you know, to people today, they maybe 522 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 5: we're like the airplane across me, Sales and Nash or 523 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 5: the doors. What are they going to say or their 524 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 5: next album? 525 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: Do people say that today? I don't know. It's a 526 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: good question. 527 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 6: I don't think they do. I think it's an excellent point. 528 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 6: But I also wonder too whether frankly, fear of risk 529 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 6: taking that exists where maybe an artist or a band 530 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 6: is afraid to, you know, perhaps affect a certain part 531 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 6: of their fan base. 532 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 5: Maybe, yeah, I mean, listen, I don't doubt that's the case. 533 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 5: I mean, you know, we never could have imagined all 534 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 5: the stuff we have today. For example, you know, about 535 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 5: five or six years ago, if my birthday, my daughter 536 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 5: gave me a drone with a camera and I fired 537 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 5: this to learn how to fly. Like Yes, I got 538 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 5: my drone license from the FAA. Most people don't, but 539 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 5: I got mine. Anyway, when I was your age, I 540 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 5: would have died to have something like this. I'm holding 541 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 5: the remote control and I could see what the bird sees. 542 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: Right, It's unbelievable, you know. Yeah, so all the. 543 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 5: Stuff, everybody's so connected and wired, it's hard not to 544 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 5: be self conscious. 545 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 4: But you've always like technology. I mean that's really right. 546 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 4: What kind of drove you to the airplane? 547 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 5: In a lot of respects, Yeah, although it's so archaic 548 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 5: by today's standards, but yes. 549 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, for that time. Yeah, so I think, you know, 550 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 4: the reflection of the times changes, but some of the 551 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 4: message doesn't change, right exactly, But I think that it 552 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 4: was such a such a time of so many mind 553 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 4: altering things happen. 554 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 5: Absolutely, you know, and and and we haven't mentioned mind 555 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 5: altering drugs. But they need to be mentioned because not 556 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 5: that I'm encouraging people to either take or not take them, 557 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,959 Speaker 5: but but they need to be mentioned because that had 558 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 5: a lot to do with what was going on also, 559 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 5: and it would have been a different world, certainly for 560 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 5: the artists of that period had not all that stuff happened. 561 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 4: Another remnant to bone here, Yeah, exactly artifacts. Did you 562 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 4: ever think you would live to see the moment that 563 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 4: cannabis was made illegal? 564 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: You know? 565 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 5: I remember the answer is well recently yes, but back 566 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 5: in the day never, never, never, you know, I mean 567 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 5: I remember, I mean a potbust is a major fellow me. 568 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 5: It could change your lives and ways. It can never 569 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 5: be undone. By the way, if you see where we 570 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 5: are here, that big rock there, I forgot to look 571 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 5: at the graffiti and you were going, what a nice 572 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 5: rock outcropping there it is look at that. 573 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 4: Wow, that is amazing. So one of the connections that 574 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 4: is why I'm here and I'm so fortunate to be here, 575 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 4: is my master collaborator, Pete Hurlbut who's drove me down here, 576 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 4: dear friend from my days in Columbus, And what's so 577 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 4: beautiful is how your life intersected with this guy, John 578 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 4: hurl Bud. 579 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 5: Sure, well the Hurlbut family, Pete and his mom and 580 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 5: dad maybe both rest in peace, and his sister and 581 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 5: his nieces and nephew. The Hurlbut family has been a 582 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 5: subset of our family for many decades. 583 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 4: I didn't realize that. I mean, yeah, I obviously know 584 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 4: about John. So you had played with John informally in 585 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 4: the past, right, Yeah, And how joyful is it now 586 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 4: for you guys to be creating. 587 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 5: Well, you know, like I said, John and I have 588 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 5: been a friend for probably well for a long time, 589 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 5: I could say pushing four decades easily. 590 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: But but so we've. 591 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 5: We've always played, and he works for us, works with 592 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 5: us at the ranch, etcetera, etcetera. And we've done some 593 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 5: stuff when we were when we used to do like 594 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 5: dinners and lunches and we'd get together and play for 595 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 5: the lunch crowd and and have a really good time. 596 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 5: And and you know, for me, as as our musical 597 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 5: friendship expanded over the years and took off exponentially, which 598 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 5: we'll get to in a minute, but for me to 599 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 5: be able to be supportive of someone else and just 600 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 5: bring to the table the same kind of musical insights 601 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 5: that I did with the Airplane, where I was not 602 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 5: the not the focus. You know, when I do the 603 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 5: Yorma thing or how Tuna thing, I'm the front guy, 604 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 5: and that's the deal. 605 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: That's how it is. But this way I got a 606 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: chance to. 607 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 5: Just think about quote unquote dumb music and not worry 608 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 5: about being me, which was a real burden to be lifted. 609 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 5: And of course Johnny and I in the beginning of 610 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 5: the pandemic wound up doing this double album, The River Flows, 611 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 5: which is beautiful, Yeah, thank you very much, which we 612 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 5: cut live, and it's just one of those joys, you know. 613 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 5: We're so fortunate to be able to do that and 614 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 5: to have the opportunity to do it also, so so yeah, 615 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 5: it's become a huge part of my musical life. And 616 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 5: we just had a killer rehearsal a couple of days ago, 617 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 5: and and we play shows periodically, and but but we 618 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 5: just we played together a couple of times a week regardless, 619 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 5: because it's fun. 620 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 4: The joyful part. We keep saying that, but it's so 621 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 4: it's so evident when you when you watch it or 622 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 4: listen to it, it's it just radiates joy and there's 623 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 4: obviously a lot of other players that certainly come down 624 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 4: here for peace or sort of you know, part of 625 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 4: your maybe formal or in formal advisory board. You want 626 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 4: to talk about some of those players that also inspire you. 627 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 5: Well, you know, I'm inspired all the time. You know, 628 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 5: We've had so many great players here. We had Radney Foster, 629 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 5: He's a he had some country hits. 630 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: But he's a killer singer, song write, a great artist. 631 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 5: Gosh, uh, Trey Hensley, I mean, I can Jerry Douglas, 632 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 5: rob Iykes, Gosh, Brilin Thoms. So we could, we could, 633 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 5: we can have a whole thing on just the people 634 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 5: that came down there. But but the good news about 635 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 5: all that is it's always a it's always a friendly 636 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 5: dialogue with the talent that has come through the doors. 637 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 5: Sierra Hall can check out Sierra Hall. I mean again, 638 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 5: we could go on and on, but. 639 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: But again, unintimidating. Is this a family podcast? 640 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 4: Can I you could say anything? 641 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 5: Okay, So I'm gonna say the only there's there's no 642 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 5: swinging dick stuff here for lack of a better way 643 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 5: to put it. 644 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: And uh, and you know what I'm talking about. 645 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 5: It exactly another way to put it exactly. 646 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 4: But but the music community, it's certainly your music community. 647 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 4: It's just you know, all once again out of that 648 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 4: love for music, right, and yeah. 649 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: We're again. 650 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 5: I mean, if you think about, you know, where Jack 651 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 5: and I are or John and I or any of 652 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 5: our pals to sort of do what we do. You know, 653 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 5: we're not a hit making band, if indeed ever we were, 654 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 5: but we certainly are not now. But our fans allow 655 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 5: us to be us without having to try to recapture 656 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 5: the greatest moments of our lives. Because things are changing 657 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 5: and evolving all the time. Some stuff they like better 658 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 5: than others. Let's let's head up that way with that 659 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 5: little deer trail is actually let's go over here, we'll 660 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 5: climb over the log. But yeah, they allow us to change, 661 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 5: they allow us to alter stuff. Well, I liked it 662 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 5: better when you Okay, I'll accept that, right, but that's 663 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 5: not how we do it today. 664 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 6: Well, but the audience, back to what you were saying 665 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 6: about authenticity, I mean, the audience respects the authicity authenticity. 666 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 4: And that's that's I think why they allow you the freedom. 667 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 5: A great I mean, so so we don't have to 668 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 5: I mean, like I don't know the Eagles, but you know, 669 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 5: when the Eagles do a reunion tour, they got to 670 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 5: sound like the Hits. 671 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: They got to sound like the Eagles. And that's okay. 672 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm not but but we don't have. 673 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 4: To, right, you can do what you what you want 674 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 4: to do. Yeah, and before pandemic, how many days out 675 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 4: of the year were you on the road? 676 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: Wow? 677 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 5: Before the pandemic, I was probably out. My goodness, I'm 678 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 5: guessing one hundred and fifty easy, maybe more. 679 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 4: And it was in various incarnations too. 680 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, various incarnations. And I'm not the only 681 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 5: one to say this, but but twenty twenty was going 682 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 5: to be our best year ever. 683 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: But the good news is we're still here and that's okay. 684 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, and now you've got shows booked and. 685 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, we're out on the road, out in the road again. 686 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 5: I'm not saying it's people talk about the new normal. 687 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 5: It is what it is, you know, And we're lucky 688 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 5: we're here, and people. 689 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 4: I think are really so anxious to get out and enjoy. 690 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 5: You know, We've noticed something that's really interesting. It's not 691 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 5: just the musicians that are thrilled. 692 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: To get out again. 693 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 5: And we are of course, obviously because we're out of 694 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 5: work for two years, but the feeling, the psychic energy 695 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 5: of audiences that are also thrilled to be out as palpable. 696 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's got to be something. So it's different in 697 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 4: a way, do you think meaning that people have been 698 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 4: so you know, locked the way I mean definitely that 699 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 4: you detect a different energy totally, and of course that 700 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 4: yields probably even greater performances from you guys, right, Oh. 701 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,240 Speaker 1: I definitely say so. I mean, you know, like we did. 702 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 5: Gosh, I guess fifty some quarantine concerts, free quarantine concerts 703 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 5: where we're playing to an empty house, but you know, 704 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 5: we convinced ourselves that there were people on the other 705 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 5: end of the electronic stuff, right, So it wasn't exactly 706 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 5: an empty house, but there's no substitute for a full house. 707 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 4: So did that take some learning notes? 708 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely? Absolutely so. 709 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 4: When you reflect on music, which has been your life 710 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 4: and is your life, and you think about the amazing 711 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 4: effect that music has, what's the magic behind music? Can 712 00:36:59,080 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 4: you express? 713 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 5: Well, I'm sure there's a lot of different opinions about this, 714 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 5: but I think for me, nothing communicates emotion in a 715 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 5: nonverbal way as music. Does, and of course a lot 716 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 5: of music has lyrics also, but just that physical feeling 717 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 5: that certain sounds in gender and a person. I guess 718 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 5: I just can't think of something else that would do 719 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 5: that for me. And that's one of the things that 720 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 5: makes it so important. 721 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: It's just a way to communicate. 722 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 4: It's where would we be without it? 723 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: I mean, right, I'd be out of work now. But 724 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: I know what you mean absolutely. 725 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 4: I think about it all the time. When you know, personally, 726 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 4: I'm slugging along in a down mood and then you know, 727 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 4: head to the music and yep, you're just like totally 728 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 4: up or totally you know, listen, it can bring you 729 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 4: down too, but not in the detrimental way. It just 730 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 4: touches the heart. And I just I'm constantly fascinating. I'd 731 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 4: like to ask somebody who understands neuroscience about it, but 732 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 4: they probably wouldn't understand the answer either, right. 733 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: Or they'd overcomplicate it. 734 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 4: Right, It's but it's it's the we talk about joy 735 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 4: and the joy and beauty of it and lyrics and 736 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 4: just sounds and you know, distortions all that stuff, right, 737 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 4: the whole the whole package. Well, I have to tell 738 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 4: you this walk has been spectacular here at. 739 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: Least it wasn't snowing. 740 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 4: We were talking about it near the snow right. 741 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: Snow the other day, but it's not snowing today. 742 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 4: I just have to personally thank you for taking a walk, 743 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 4: But I also have to just thank you for certainly 744 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 4: the joy that you have brought me and continued certainly 745 00:38:54,280 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 4: to bring me and legions of people across globe. It's 746 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 4: something I'm so thankful for, and I really want to 747 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 4: thank you for your mone well. 748 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: Thanks. 749 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 5: I'm not being disingenuous when I say that the pleasure 750 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 5: was mine, because I'd be in trouble if I couldn't 751 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 5: communicate this way. 752 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 4: Thank you, Orma. 753 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thank you, my friend. 754 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 4: Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 755 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts.