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If you've 35 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: been trying to drink less alcohol or even hoping to 36 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: go weekday sober, I one hundred percent recommend Applos. I 37 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: believe in it so much I'm even investing in the 38 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: company myself. I find it easiest to buy it online 39 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: at applos dot world. Use code Emily at checkout for 40 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: fifteen percent off your first order. I can't wait to 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: hear how you enjoy it. It's like you rather tell 42 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: somebody you have cancer than say that you had a miscarriage. 43 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: People don't know how to react, especially back then. Welcome 44 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: to She Pivots. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. In 45 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, I went through my own pivot. I had 46 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: left my decade long political career in DC after having 47 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: my first two kids during the Trump presidency and felt 48 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: burnt out. At the time. I felt like I had 49 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: lost my sense of myself and my idea of success. 50 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: But after talking with so many interesting women on this 51 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: show and beyond, I began to realize that so many 52 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: women had pivoted due to personal reasons, and they still 53 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: found success through non traditional paths. This new show celebrates 54 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: these stories, and I'm so excited to bring them to 55 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: you with She Pivots. You may have heard of Reshma's 56 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: and Johnny from her incredibly successful organization Girls Who Code, 57 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: or her books Brave Not Perfect in pay Up, or 58 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: maybe you heard her talk about her Marshall plan for 59 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: moms or perhaps you even caught her commencement speech for 60 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: Yale this year. I've known Reshma for over a decade, 61 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: and her drive and passion for change never seems to waiver. 62 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: She's a fierce advocate for women and girls and has 63 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: never been one to shy away from the issue. She's 64 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: an inspiration for me and for so many others, and 65 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: her ambition has led to her incredible success. So how 66 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: did Reshma go from what looked like the top of 67 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: her career to dismantling the idea of success for women 68 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: and realizing that the ideas of corporate feminism that she 69 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: was peddling in her many speeches was exactly what harmed 70 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: women and mothers like her. Layered on top of her 71 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: struggles with fertility, Reshma's journey to success is not what 72 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: you might expect. Rashma sa Johnny. I am a mom, 73 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: the CEO of marshal m and for Moms, and the 74 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: founder of Girls. Who coulde you have had an incredibly 75 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: successful career by any definition? Were you always so ambitious? Oh? 76 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: My god, Yes, I was always so ambitious, you know, 77 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: as my parents' careers refugees, So I was like an 78 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: Indian girl whose parents were like, you can be a doctor, 79 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: a lawyer, or an engineer. So you know, education was 80 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: really stressed in our family. I also think we're a 81 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: very young age. I just wanted to get out of 82 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: my working class neighborhood, get out of you know, Schamberg, Illinois, 83 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: and really always had my sights on like making a 84 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: difference in the world. So yes, what did you think 85 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: getting out looked like? Like Like? What did success look like? Well, 86 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: I would say I think success looked like me going 87 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: to Yale Law School. Returning to Yale for our keynote address, 88 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: Rush Meshiel Johnny comes to share her journey and the 89 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: wisdom collected along the way with the class of twenty 90 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: twenty two. So without further ado, please join me and 91 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: welcoming back to Yale. This rosh Meshio Johnny. Very it 92 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: is an honor to be here. I want to thank you, know, 93 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: like basically finding the most elite institution to accept you 94 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: and validate you and getting there as fast as you could. 95 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: I was going through my middle school yearbook and the 96 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: reason why I was I was I was in a 97 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: very serious fight when I was in eighth grade. I 98 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: got beat up because I was a brown girl, and 99 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: message and I were bullied in school. And she was 100 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: telling me when I had seen her about a few 101 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: months ago that the girl who had bullied her at 102 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: school had actually facebooked her and she was like a 103 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: mom of three, and she had apologized. And as my 104 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: sister was telling me kind of her story, I was 105 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: thinking of my own and trying to remember this my 106 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, one of my friends, you know, Fudoh, who 107 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: had take walked me home after I had been beaten 108 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: up with a baseball bat in the tennis racket. And 109 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: so I was asking my dad do you remember her? 110 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: Do you remember where she lives? And so my dad 111 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: had pulled out because you know, I was coming home 112 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: all of the yearbooks. So I and it was like 113 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: I kind of just relived that experience. So maybe it 114 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: was part of being in a community that I didn't 115 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: feel accepted, you know, maybe it was part of again 116 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: just this I just always I just remember laying down 117 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: on the grass looking at the clouds, just waiting for 118 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: quote life to begin and for me to you know, 119 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: I just never felt like I belonged where I grew up. 120 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: I will say that when my sister told me that 121 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: she got that apology. I was like, you know, I 122 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: had blocked so much of it out that I was like, gosh, 123 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: I did kind of relive it all, you know. So 124 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: that's a little bit of That's where kind of ambition 125 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: comes from. I think if you are you know, especially 126 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: I think a woman of color, or you know, even 127 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: if there's something about you that's different, and you're in 128 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: a community or a school or a group where you 129 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: just don't feel like you belong, you're always kind of 130 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: dreaming of getting out. And I think in many ways 131 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: that's where my ambition began. I think for a lot 132 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: of people, it drives them maybe inward, like not to 133 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: be quite as successful as you had been. You know, 134 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: you said you thought about success being going to Yell 135 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: law school. Did you think about success beyond that, Like, 136 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: did you envision what a life would look like? Yeah, 137 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: oh gosh see, I think so. You know, some of 138 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: the greatest athletes in the world always had this moment 139 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: where it should have happened for them. They should have 140 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: made that shot, they should have gotten on that team, 141 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: they should have been the first NBA draft pick, and 142 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: they didn't. And some of the greatest athletes always carry 143 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: that chip on that shoulder, so I excel from having 144 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: the chip on my shoulder, you know what I mean. 145 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: So I always felt like, you know, for college, I 146 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: had to go to the University of Illinois because my 147 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: parents couldn't afford University of Michigan, which is where I 148 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: really wanted to go. You know, I never got into 149 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,679 Speaker 1: I finally got into yet law school after three times 150 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: after trying, never won my congressional race or my public 151 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: advocate race. So I have a lot of things right, 152 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: and I wasn't gonna let motherhood be one of those 153 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: things right where it was like I wanted to be 154 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: a mom and I didn't have an easy pathway there. 155 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: And so I am definitely the girl who has her 156 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: back up against the wall. The thing that I feel 157 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: like I've earned or I deserve or I have worked 158 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,599 Speaker 1: really hard for doesn't happen for me. You know. I 159 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't realize that, you know, 160 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: as they're like reading my resume, but it's very true 161 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: for me. And I think for me that creates it's okay, 162 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to show you all right, cool, like don't 163 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: let me in like a drive one hundred percent one 164 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: hundred percent. So you graduated ye law school and suddenly 165 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: found yourself on Wall Street. Yeah, New York City. I 166 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: had three hundred thousand dollars in student loan debt bush 167 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: quote quote, I'm putting quotes. One. We all thought, yeah, 168 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: we're all going to the DOJ. That didn't happen. So 169 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: I guess it was Davis Polk, you know, And I'm 170 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: now a corporate lawyer, you know, working in New York City. 171 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: I was, I was naive. I knew I loved my 172 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: first Martin when I was thirteen. I knew that I 173 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,599 Speaker 1: wanted to be a public servant. I always thought I 174 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: would run for office, and I thought that maybe I 175 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: would go back to Chicago and do that. But I 176 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: found myself in and I loved New York City. So 177 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: I found myself in the city that I loved with 178 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: a hell of a lot of debt, a really big paycheck, 179 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: and I never really did the math, you know what 180 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: I mean of like, well, actually, you know, it looks 181 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: like you can make some dent, but you're just me 182 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: paying off your interest and so so I naively just 183 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: thought that I would like live New York fun life 184 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: and make a little bit of money and pay off 185 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: my dad and then maybe in a couple of years 186 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: and I'll just I'll go then run for office and 187 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: be a public servant. And it just didn't play out 188 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: that way. After her life in the fast lane, she 189 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: finally decided it was time to run for office. I'm 190 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: happy to welcome Resma Sojohnny to the program today. Her 191 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: name may sound familiar to you. In twenty ten, she 192 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: ran for Congress in New York City. In twenty twelve, 193 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: I became an upstart in a New York City congressional race. 194 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: I swore I was going to win. I had the 195 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: endorsement from the New York Daily News, the Wall Street 196 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: Journals snapped pictures of me on election day, and CNBC 197 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: called it one of the hottest races in the country. 198 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: I mean, luc a lot of us, right, we were 199 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: actively involved in politics, like Emily's List, DNC, we were 200 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: organizing already. So you know, I'm thirty three years old. 201 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: You know, Congress Maloney is talking about retiring. She was 202 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: gonna run against Joel Brand Christen Joel Senator Jill Brand 203 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: for the Senate. There might be this open house seat. 204 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: I'm in a job. I hated. I've reached my final 205 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: For me, I don't, but I often make decisions by 206 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: hitting rock bottom. So I'm really in this job that 207 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: I hate. I haven't made all that progress on my debt. 208 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: I'm literally just, you know, a little piece of me 209 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: is just dying a little bit every day. And somebody 210 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: probably was like, oh, there's this congressional seat and you 211 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: should run, not really thinking that I would actually do it. 212 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, and you know, 213 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: I kind of work myself up into doing that, and 214 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: I just kind of very quit, and I'm like, I'm in, 215 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: and you know, I have a lot of people around me. 216 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: I'm fair very blessed about this, who like support my 217 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: crazy ideas and who are like, yes, run like and 218 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: I'm you know, and so I just side I was 219 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: gonna run. And now she decides she's not retiring and 220 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: she's not running for Senate. But now I've already made 221 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: this decision. And you know, Emily, back then in twenty ten, 222 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: no one challenged democratic primaries in the entire country. There 223 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: was not one Democratic challenger. Now there's this woman in 224 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: Rushmassa Johnny, who's thirty three years old, and she's doing 225 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: what And I think because I didn't know any better 226 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: and I wasn't part of the system. And as you know, 227 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: we had this little whole crew of people that were 228 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 1: kind of, you know again like progressive politics, wanted to 229 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: change the world. We just thought we could like meet 230 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: every voter and shake every hand. In many ways, it's 231 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: what Okazio did, you know ten years later, But my 232 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: recent turnout the way that hers did. When Reshma decided 233 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: to run for office, it was twenty ten, right on 234 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: the heels of the two thousand and eight election of 235 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: President Barack Obama and the passage of the Affordable Care Act, 236 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: the country as a whole felt uneasy with change. I mean, 237 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: I remember Geraldine Ferraro Oh called my finance director and 238 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: was like, she can't run. I mean, I had all 239 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: these women who I admired who were just like not 240 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: happy about it. I mean, I remember I went up 241 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: to Glorious Steinem and She's like, why are you doing that? 242 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: And that's where I read a book after that. You know, 243 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: women don't wait in line, because it was I was 244 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: constantly told it's not your turn. Wait in line, it's 245 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: not your turn. And here I was, again this brown 246 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: girl you know, it's daughter of refugees who supposed to 247 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: represent everything that we were talking about doing in this country, 248 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: and I was constantly silenced. But then we had this 249 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: group of like young up and comers who were like, go, 250 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: go go. I mean, John Legend did a concert for me, 251 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, Jack Dorsey hosted an event for me, And 252 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: at that time, both of them were just kind of 253 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: building in their career, and I think we all saw 254 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: the same thing in one another. So it was it 255 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: was just again so much courage of so many yourself 256 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: included right, of so many people who were going against 257 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: this SYS in this really powerful way. So we've alluded 258 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: to it. You did not win the national not even 259 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: closed crushed housed. In twenty ten, she ran for Congress 260 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: in New York City but didn't win. In twenty thirteen, 261 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: she ran in the Democratic primary for public Advocate, but 262 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: lost in the crowded field that included Letitia James and 263 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,359 Speaker 1: Daniel Squadron. Really bad. I was broke, I was humiliated. 264 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: I felt ashamed. People felt sorry for me, and I'm 265 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: one of those people I hate when people feel sorry 266 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: for me. But on election day, the polls were right, 267 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: and I only got nineteen percent of the vote, and 268 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: the same papers that said I was a rising political 269 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: star now said I wasted one point three million dollars 270 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: on six thousand, three hundred and twenty one votes. Don't 271 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: do the math. It was humiliating. It was not even closed. 272 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: It was and it was really sad because I really 273 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: thought I was going to win, you know, I really did, 274 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: because this is what happens. It's like you're on in 275 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: the subway stop and people like I thought it for you, 276 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: and finally it feels like everyone's wow, everyone's voting for me, 277 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: Like this is happening. And I just thought I could 278 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: meet every hand and shake every voter, and I just 279 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: didn't realize. And We've got a lot of attention, a 280 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: lot of press. I'd raised more than enough money, but 281 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: you just can't beat the machine, especially in New York City. 282 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: It's really hard. But I also made a lot of mistakes. 283 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: I was so not comfortable being a candidate. It was 284 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: just the way I dressed, like the what I said, 285 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: and I just wasn't it wasn't the same. I wasn't 286 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: the same person I am today, And so that was 287 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: a very it was a really amazing experience because I 288 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: learned so much. I feel like listening to you talk 289 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: about it now, people will be surprised to find out 290 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: the next thing you did was run for off as 291 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: a guy. Yes, because that's what happens right when you're 292 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: like because I you know, afterwards, I'm crushed, but I'm 293 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: not crush crushed, like I'm like, Okay, I did that wrong. 294 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: I did that wrong. I wouldn't have hired that person. 295 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: I would have done this. I can do it again. 296 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: Now I know how to win. I run again. I 297 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: lose again. That they did you win? I run again. 298 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: I losse again. And let me tell you the first 299 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: time I ran, I didn't cry on election day, and 300 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: I would argue that in many ways. I got over 301 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: it pretty quickly because I was ready for the next race. 302 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: I had like like an ambitious type a woman. I 303 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: was like, okay, I know what I did wrong, and 304 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: now I know what's to right. And then on my 305 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: second race, I was like, oh gosh, they just don't 306 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: want me. They just don't want to vote for me. 307 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: Because I had run a perfect campaign. I had no regrets. 308 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: I was me just like I am now. I you know, 309 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: had understood, you know I knew who to hire, who 310 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: not to hire. I knew who was lying to me, 311 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: who wasn't lying to me, and they just didn't vote 312 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: for me. And that was just crushing because it was literally, 313 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: since I was thirteen, all I've wanted to do, who 314 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: is serve in public office? And it was this realization 315 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: then at thirty six or you know whatever, that oh 316 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: this is this might not happen in my lifetime. How 317 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: did that feel? It felt really rough. Also, I had 318 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, I had a miscarriage right 319 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: in the beginning of it, So there was just a lot. 320 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: There's a lot that happened in a lot of heart 321 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: that I had put into it, and so I think 322 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: it was just I think, yeah, it was devastating. It 323 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: was really devastating. It's still very devastating in some ways. 324 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: The second one was much harder, much harder. Maybe I 325 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: got more votes, I got more votes, you know, I 326 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: was again, had no regrets. It didn't one would argue. 327 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: In many ways it helped my career afterwards. I didn't 328 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: have a lot of enemies. I had people who kind 329 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: of supported me afterwards, but it was a little bit like, oh, 330 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: this might not happen for me in this lifetime. So 331 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: you mentioned that you had beennant and then lost that 332 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: pregnancy on that race was running for office, lining up 333 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: with you thinking about beginning a family. Yeah, because I 334 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: mean I write a by this. I thought I was 335 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: gonna be like the you know, Rosie the Riveter pregnant 336 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: on the campaign trail, and the vision of it was 337 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: just so perfect, and so it just yeah, it was 338 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: never again. I had also lined everything up that I 339 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: thought the baby, if I had a baby, you know, 340 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: in this moment, it would just be, you know again, 341 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: part of the story, not not get in the way 342 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: of it. She'd always seen herself as a mom, but 343 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: she was also socialized to believe that being a mom 344 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: needed to be done in secret. I always wanted to 345 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: be a mom. I like lived with stuffed animals all 346 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: surrounded around me. I was obsessed with my cabbage patch 347 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 1: kid doll. I loved babies, always, always, always, always desperately 348 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: wanted to be a mom. I got pregnant while I'm like, 349 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: you know again, about to launch my campaign, and I'm 350 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: and get married, Oh my god, and I'm like this 351 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: is great. I'm not like, oh shit, you know, this 352 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: is not good. This is not good timing. I was 353 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: not worried about it. I was actually excited about it. 354 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: You know, being a candidate is physically very grueling, very grueling. 355 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: Was it something that you took into consideration once you 356 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: found out you were pregnant. No, I was just like 357 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: naive and you know, listen to you know, and then I, 358 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, miscarried within twelve or thirteen weeks. So the 359 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: dream was very small, you know what I meant, It 360 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: didn't last long enough. But I think that I yeah, no, 361 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: I think I think I thought we could all handle it. 362 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: But also it's because like listen, I think, I think 363 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 1: I've learned so much about the way people's bodies have 364 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: to be built in order to carry pregnancies and carrie, 365 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: you know, whatever they're doing physically, like my surguit. Amber 366 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: is just physically, like meant, her body is just so 367 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: she can be you know, an ear nurse and be 368 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: on her feet as she was when she carried SI 369 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: all night long and with the baby, and she's good, right. 370 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: I never could do that, and when I was pretty 371 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: much on bed rest by the time I had shot. 372 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: You know, did it change your vision of yourself as 373 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: the candidate. Did you think that you could still run? 374 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 1: I mean, you clearly kept running, But did you mean 375 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: after I miscarried? Yeah, did it change your vision of 376 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: yourself in the role? You know? I think it did. 377 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: I think in many ways it started what became a 378 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: bad habit of being able to compartmentalize pregnancy loss with 379 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: what was happening in my life, and so it became 380 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: the beginning of many miscarriages that happened alongside many professional moments. 381 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: The irony of the situation could not be more stark. 382 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: Reshma did her TED talk titled Teach Girl's Bravery not Perfection. 383 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: It's a powerful speech, but in contrast to her personal story, 384 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking. The image of the girl boss Reshma had 385 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: carefully constructed in her head slowly began to frack. Sure, 386 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: no one talked about it, so I didn't really have 387 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: anyone to talk to about it. No one said to me, Hey, 388 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't go make that speech after you just 389 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: walked out of the doctor's office and didn't have a heartbeat, 390 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: because I think there's so much shame and silence around you. 391 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: It's so amazing today that we would talk about getting 392 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: days off to grieve once you have a miscarriage. That 393 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: was not at all part of even the conversation or 394 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: of what people did. So in many ways, one I 395 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: think I thought that that was just the price of motherhood, 396 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: of wanting to be a mom, of wanting of being 397 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: a boss, a girl boss, that like, shit happens and 398 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: it sucks, but you got to keep on moving and 399 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: how unhealthy and it. Ironically, it wasn't until after I 400 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: had my kid that I looked back at that period 401 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: of my life and I was like, oh, I was depressed. 402 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: It's why I didn't go out, It's why I was 403 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: up and down in terms of my weight, It's why 404 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: I was sad, you know, It's why I was just 405 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: performing in many ways. And it wasn't until the same 406 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: things started happening with before my second then I started 407 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: crying all the time. And then I was like, okay, Like, 408 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: but I didn't, you know, it took me a while 409 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: to for it emotionally to break me in the way 410 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: that it should have very early on. And you know, look, 411 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: I don't think I had someone It's my fault because 412 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: I never really, I never really told anybody that I 413 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: was in my closest friends. I wasn't like I'm going 414 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: through all this, it would just make it didn't work out, 415 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: and okay, what are we having for dinner? But you 416 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: kept driving professionally, I mean even through this time. After 417 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: you lost that public advocate race, you went on to 418 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: build this incredible nonprofit, Girls Who Code. Yeah, yeah, I 419 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: mean I lose the race, and I'm like, okay, then 420 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to show you. You're not going to let 421 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: me to be a public advocate to teach you know, 422 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of millions of New York City public 423 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: school kids to code. Then I'm going to make Girls 424 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: who Code. At that time, we were really small, you know, 425 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: we taught like a handful of girls. I'm going to 426 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: make Girls who Code the largest nun profit in the world, 427 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: teach millions of girls. And then put my head down 428 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: and I did. Tired of ads interrupting your gripping investigations. 429 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: Good news, AD free listening on Amazon Music is included 430 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: with your Prime membership. Ads shouldn't be the scariest thing 431 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: about true crime. Just head to Amazon dot com slash 432 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: ad free true Crime to catch up on the latest 433 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: episodes without the ad. Shows At three for Punch scriptions. 434 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: Some shows me that ready to disrupt your industry without 435 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: disrupting your flow. 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Girls who Code 443 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: went on to serve over five hundred thousand girls, women, 444 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: and non binary students, creating one of the largest pipelines 445 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: for future females and engineering. What many don't know is 446 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: that before she hit the ground running with Girls Who Code, 447 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: she had the opportunity to move into a senior position 448 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: in the New York City Mayor's office. This was finally 449 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: her opportunity to fulfill her lifetime goal of working in 450 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: public service that she had dreamed of. But she said no, 451 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: and she pivoted into something new, leaving behind her work 452 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: in politics. Yeah, no, I didn't want to do that. 453 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to build, you know, I really was, I 454 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: really wanted to build the organization. And I put my 455 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: head down, you know, for years and just learned how 456 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: to be a CEO, worked on having a baby, you know, 457 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: and and just just grind it every single day. Twenty twelve, 458 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: you started it, thirty thousand plus graduates in the program. 459 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: Is it true that you didn't know how to code 460 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: when you started it? Now I'm like the weirdest person 461 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: to start Girls Who Code. Girls Who Code has proven 462 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: time and time again that we're about more than just 463 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: teaching girls and non binary students how to code. We 464 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: are growing a movement of over four hundred and fifty 465 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: thousand students served now and counting. Founder of CEO of 466 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: Girls Who Code. Thank you, thank you, Thank you for 467 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: But through it all, Reshmus still continued to struggle with 468 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 1: her fertility. So yeah, I would I would go. I'd 469 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: have a miscarriage and then I'd be on stage with 470 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 1: introducing Obama Smile, Small Spell. You know. I would have 471 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: another miskcarriage and then I would be there. I was 472 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: in Utah with six of our girls Small Spell Spell, 473 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: And so I don't think that the closest even my 474 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 1: even my team, you know, never really knew kind of 475 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: the again, my private hell that was happening behind thee 476 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: So it was very, very very unhealthy. I remember one 477 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: time I was doing I hadn't miscarried yet, but I 478 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: knew I was going to, and I was taping something 479 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: in Washington, one of the big morning shows, and I 480 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: was in the green room with I think, again I 481 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: don't want to out her, but a very prominent young 482 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: lawyer of a very prominent case that it ignited the 483 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter movement, and somehow we started talking and 484 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: she too had just had a miscarriage, and we were saying, like, 485 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 1: how sick it was in many ways that we were 486 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: both sitting there, me not having miscarried yet, but about 487 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: you in any second getting our hair and makeup done, 488 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: because in many ways we were both social activist. And 489 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: I think it's doubly worse. You're a woman who you 490 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: think you have to just show up when trauma happens 491 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: to you, and then you're fighting for justice, so you 492 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: think that you also the fight never ends, so you 493 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: just have to you know, for me, it was for 494 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: the girls. For her was young black boys were being killed, 495 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: and so you know that, like wow, and what did 496 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: that really say about who we were? Because in some 497 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: ways you would turn around and be like, what's wrong 498 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: with me? You know, like this is not normal. But 499 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: again again now going by you with the work that 500 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: I'm doing now, I attribute all of that to girl 501 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: bloss culture. It's like we have been told over and 502 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: over and over again by the senior, by women in 503 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: our life that are that this is the price you 504 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: have to pay, that this is what the cost is, 505 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: and that I did it, you do it, and that 506 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: no one ever said no, that's not right. Did you 507 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 1: when you were envisioning being successful and getting out and 508 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: establishing yourself, was it part of the vision, Like how 509 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: did you envision that? No? No, I feel like I 510 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: had built everything around motherhood, not getting my way of 511 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: my ambition of the thing that I wanted to achieve, 512 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: and I never really loved the identity Like I remember, 513 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: you know you could appreciate this, like you know girls 514 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: who code after become mom my Team's like great, you 515 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: should be like one of those cool mom bloggers. And 516 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, no fucking way, no right, Like I wouldn't 517 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: even put on a pair of mom jeans. I was 518 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: like I am not, that's not my identity, because I 519 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: think that there was a lot of like being a 520 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: mom is not sexy, not cool, was not respected. Right, 521 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: It's the way many people, like many people have always 522 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: hid that piece of their identa at least we've been 523 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: taught that as young women, right to hide that piece 524 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: of your identity. And so I think it was something 525 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: I desperately wanted, but I also kind of wanted to hide. 526 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: So did your vision of yourself and your professional self 527 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: and your professional ambition. Do you think that your vision 528 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: of yourself and where you were growing changed once you 529 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: did have your first son? Yes, well, because then I realized, 530 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: oh my god, like you know, because I was just 531 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: I was just angry, and for most of that time, 532 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's like why is this happening to me? 533 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: Angry that seemed like it was so much easier for 534 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: other women, you know, Angry that like like this wasn't 535 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: supposed to be my story, Angry that I never got 536 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: to really Enjoynancy in the entire journey, and just angry 537 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: that I just I couldn't ever really share it. And 538 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: there were times too that I would try to share it. 539 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: When a reporter was interviewing me about, like, you know whatever, 540 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: writing a profile, and they'd never write about it, never 541 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: write about your anger. They'd never write about when they say, 542 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: what's your biggest struggle that you've ever had? And I 543 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: was like, well, it's been really hard having you know, 544 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: a baby, and I've had a miscarriageter too. Never write 545 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: about that. They never probed about that. Now that's shifted, 546 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: but I tried, you know, to kind of put it 547 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: out there a little bit. Still, despite the countless mommy blogs, 548 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,479 Speaker 1: influencers and podcasts, the conversations around getting pregnant, miscarriages, and 549 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: surrogacy are seen as uncomfortable to talk about. It's like 550 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: you rather tell someone you have cancer than say that 551 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: you had a miscarriage. People don't know how to react, 552 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: especially back then, when someone tells you that, and it's 553 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: really it makes them feel really, really uncomfortable. And I 554 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: think it goes back to the fact that we have 555 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: this archetype that it's so easy to get, to get 556 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: pregnant and to keep a baby, and so it's almost like, way, 557 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: what's wrong with you that you couldn't do that. So 558 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: I think after I had Sean, I think I was 559 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: able to look back and be like, oh, whoa, there 560 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: was a lot, and to start to unravel that with 561 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: my therapist, you know, with family, with friends, you know, 562 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: and say, you know, I was not dealing with my 563 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: mental health issues. You know that I was facing from 564 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: the trauma of all the pregnancy losses. And then when 565 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: I tried to do my second, I wasn't much better. 566 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: Went back to the all the old bad habits until 567 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: I had this one loss, maybe my second, my second 568 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: loss would sigh before I had my baby or second 569 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: or third loss, second loss where you know, I was 570 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: in California, and you know, we think the embryo takes 571 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone who knows who's gone through this HGG 572 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: levels going up before it's going down, you know, get 573 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: the call it. What was then four in the morning 574 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: because it was seven am in New York, being like, 575 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, there's no there's no heartbeat, it's not going up. 576 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: And then I have to hop on a flight at 577 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: eleven o'clock or ten o'clock to go to Utah because 578 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: we were announcing the US partnership with the Governor of 579 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: Utah with a room full of seven hundred girls. Now 580 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: mind you, I have been desperate to help a little girl, 581 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: you know, and this was supposed to be it. And 582 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, I remember my husband saying, you don't have 583 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: to go, and I was like, no, no, no no, I 584 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: have to go. And I go, you know, and I 585 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: look back at those pictures and it's just like I 586 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: have to do the whole thing with the governor, do 587 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: the green room, do the photos, Da da da da. 588 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: And then you know, I just got back and I 589 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: was just off and everybody I was just being I 590 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: was just not you know, I was angry. You know, 591 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: I was angry with my team and you know, now 592 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: my new CEO member, Treek, every being like what's wrong. 593 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: And then I just convened everybody and I was just cried. 594 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: I and I said, guys, I just can't do this anymore. 595 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,239 Speaker 1: I need a break. I need to heal. I need 596 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: to focus on what I need to do to have 597 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: my next baby. After years of fertility treatments, IVF and more, 598 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: she decided she wanted to try one last time. At 599 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: this time now I'm forty three. I'm forty three, I'm 600 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: forty three, and it's my last shot, you know, to 601 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: get those embryos right. And my doctor is amazing. And 602 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: so I said to my husband, I was I was 603 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:27,959 Speaker 1: going to be done. And then we meet this couple 604 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: and this woman says, essentially like, my one regret is 605 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: that I just didn't try one more time. And I basically, 606 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: you know, come back and I, you know, say to 607 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: my husband and my doctor, I want to try again, 608 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: and they're like, you just can't because at this point 609 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: it's just physically I have autoimmune issues. It's just you know, 610 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: blood clots, blah blah blahlah blah. It's just not and 611 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,239 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm forty three, right, And so they were 612 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: basically like, Okay, we'll let you try, but you can't 613 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: carry the baby. Had that been something you'd ever considered before. No, 614 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: Because superpower Rashma wanted to basically show everybody that I 615 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: could do it, you know, myself more than anybody. But 616 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: then I was like, okay, I will not try to 617 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: put my body through this anymore and sacrifice my life. 618 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,959 Speaker 1: And I will and of course do my IVF cycle, 619 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,719 Speaker 1: and at forty three, I get these four beautiful, healthy embryos, 620 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: of which one is now my son. But it was 621 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: this really you know, incredible lesson of just letting go, 622 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: you know, first letting go of having to have this 623 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: trauma and holding it on my own, letting go of 624 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: the fact that maybe my body is not built to 625 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: carry a baby, and that is okay. But I think 626 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: it's also for me a story of like I never 627 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: give up, and I tell people all this time because 628 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: now it's so beautiful. And I think part of why 629 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: I share this too is like, literally I probably coach 630 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: for five six families women a week who just DM 631 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: me on Instagram who are going through their fertility struggles 632 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: and because you know, I didn't have that, and so 633 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: I want people to have someone that, even if it's 634 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: a stranger, you know that they DM on LinkedIn or Instagram, 635 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: that can be there. But I always say to people, like, 636 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: if you want to become a mother, you will become one. 637 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: It may not be in the way that you think 638 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: it's going to be, but you know you can. And 639 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: I think this goes to probably the end, which is 640 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: why it's so I think COVID was such an eye 641 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: opener for me, and just again the fact that I 642 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: had been building and grinding and building and grinding and 643 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: never really seeing my kids, that I had worked so 644 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: hard to actually see because I had again bought into 645 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: this culture that like, that's a sacrifice that you pay 646 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,919 Speaker 1: to be a working mom. So your new book pay Up, Yeah, 647 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: really gets to the heart of this. It's not we 648 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: can't grind our way out of it. Yeah, we can't 649 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 1: grind our way out of it. And the fact that like, 650 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: we don't have to hide from our dead. I mean, 651 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: I wanted so desperately to be a mother, and then 652 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: when I was a mother, I let culture take that 653 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: away from me. I let workplaces take that away from 654 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: I let the government basically say you got no support 655 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: for doing that. I want to pause here because I 656 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: think it's important to highlight this pivot. I think it's 657 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: a moment that many of us have been slowly realizing 658 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: that we just can't have it all. And even for 659 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: someone like Reshma, who's such a fierce advocate for women, 660 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: it took years for her to fully understand this, and 661 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: despite the gut wrenching loss of each pregnancy, she still 662 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: felt it necessary to push further and harder in her 663 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: career until she broke. And I think the whole point 664 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: is where it's being given a false choice and that 665 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: we all think it's just like I thought it was 666 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: my personal problem that I had to basically fix and 667 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: solve and I didn't need any support or help from anybody. 668 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: I was wrong here. I think so many moms think, well, 669 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: it's my problem. If I'm not able to balance my 670 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: job and my care taking responsibilities, it's my problem. If 671 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: my husband is not doing his part, it's my problem, 672 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: right if my employer doesn't you know, no, it's not 673 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: it's not you. There's nothing wrong with you. There's something 674 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: wrong with the system. And the whole idea of trying 675 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: to fix the system and not fix the woman. I 676 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: mean everything, Emily, everything we read and again these are 677 00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: from women I admire and I was one of them, 678 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, from Confidence Code to Lean Into, like every 679 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: single women's leadership book is about fixing you. And that's 680 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: why women come to us and say, I have imposter syndrome. 681 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: What do I do? I don't have confidence? What should 682 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: I do? And it's like, no, no, no no, there's nothing 683 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: wrong with you. There's something wrong with the system, with 684 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: the structure. And so it's kind of wild because we 685 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: need to have a radically different we need to have 686 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: a radically different conversation than we are having, you know, 687 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: in workplaces in government, which is all about the fact 688 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: of why do we make it so damn hard for 689 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: working women and parents? We really haven't reconciled those two 690 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: personalities that you were saying, the two archetypes of the 691 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: working woman and the mom. We don't know how to 692 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: do it. And one of the mentors that I know 693 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: that you have among the people that you mentioned is 694 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: Secretary Hillary Clinton, who in many ways ended up embodying 695 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: or taking on the anger that a lot of women 696 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: who didn't feel like they had choices, they projected it 697 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: onto her. Yeap, what are some of the conversations you 698 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: have with her around the changing the culture that you've 699 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: written about in Pay Up? Yeah, I mean, I think 700 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: in many ways it's like they she struggled with that, 701 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: and I think she the way she led as a 702 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: mother and a leader is still the example for us. 703 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: She never tried, She never hid Chelsea. She really not, 704 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, if you really think about it, 705 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: she never hit Chelsea, and she never hid being a mom. 706 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: If you look at her Twitter profile or her Instagram profile, 707 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: the first word on the top is mother, grandmother, So 708 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,959 Speaker 1: you know, Secretary Clin has always been ahead of her times, 709 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: and this is another example of that. But I think 710 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: she's always also recognized how hard it is society makes 711 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: it for women, and that we do have this once 712 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: in a lifetime. She said to me, She's like, don't say, 713 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: you know, please and thank you. Fight fight, fight, fight, Like, 714 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: this is the moment with a great resignation. This is 715 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: the moment with all of you know, the seller's market, 716 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: in the tight labor market for women to say enough enough, 717 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: we're not breastfeeding in closets. You know, don't freeze my eggs, 718 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: but pay for me to freeze my eggs, but don't 719 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: pay for my childcare. You know, don't stop pushing back 720 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: on flexibility and remote working when I've already proven that 721 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: I can be productive, you know, with caretaking responsibilities. So 722 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: I feel like she's always been at the forefront of 723 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,760 Speaker 1: this fight. You know, there's some women I won't name names, 724 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, who have never used their platform to elevate 725 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,240 Speaker 1: this issue, and in fact, you have done quite the opposite. 726 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: Whereas you know, Sexuary clans always used her platform to 727 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: elevate this issue. Always, She's always led with her motherhood 728 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: before it was cool, like so many other women. Reshma 729 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: was crushed by the pandemic. After her long struggle with infertility, 730 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: she finally had the baby through surrogacy, and then COVID 731 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: hit like a ton of bricks. The team pandemic has 732 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: created a significant shift in the workforce. We've talked about 733 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: it a lot, but the great resignation, differing childcare needs, 734 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: work from home flexibility. Well, now a new survey reported 735 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: here first by NBC News this morning, is showing the 736 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: specific impact on women and the fact that working women 737 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: are experiencing a burnout epidemics. I mean, COVID crushed me 738 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: like COVID crushed me. I you know, started the pandemic 739 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: with girls, you know, Super Bowl ad. I was having 740 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 1: my newborn baby, you know, and then COVID came around. 741 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: And now here I am locked in the house my partner, 742 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,919 Speaker 1: I'm doing all the dishes and the laundry. I'm taking 743 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: care of a newborn. I'm homeschooling, you know, a seven 744 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: year old. I'm running the largest women and girls nonprofit 745 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: in the world, and that's almost on the brink of 746 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: potentially being shut down. And I'm I'm freaking, I got nothing. 747 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: It's just it's breaking me and my entire leadership team 748 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: are working homs and we're all just drowning. And you know, 749 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: I just I saw clearly the issue that I didn't see, Like, 750 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,879 Speaker 1: how could I have not had seen this, this kind 751 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: of again, this fact that we have been doing two 752 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: and a half jobs the whole time, and that I 753 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 1: had bought into this thing, that we were even had 754 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,240 Speaker 1: a shot at equality if we just got a mentor 755 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: if we just color coded our calendar, if we just 756 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: raised our hands more without thinking what we wanted to say, 757 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: if we were just braver and none of all of 758 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: that was like this what I called the big lie 759 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: of corporate feminism. And I had been selling it like 760 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: I had been selling it, dishing it out. And this 761 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: has really been your mission. You have for so long 762 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: said young women and girls, you should be brave, you 763 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: should lean in, you should work harder. You wrote a 764 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,959 Speaker 1: best selling book about this. Brave not perfect, of course, 765 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 1: your ted talk. We've all watched it. But now you're 766 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: saying pandemic madeor rethink this. Yeah, I mean, for the 767 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,320 Speaker 1: past decade, I told girls to barnstorm the corner office, 768 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,240 Speaker 1: lean in, real hard, girl boss your way to the top, 769 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,919 Speaker 1: and I was wrong. It was so easy for many 770 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: of us to fall into this big lie, and even 771 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: easier to feel guilt when things didn't pan out as 772 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: we were promised. Rushma saw the problem and the guilt 773 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: being placed on women individually, and she now argues that 774 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: the problem is systemic. Her work now centers around this 775 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,760 Speaker 1: fight for culture change with the Marshall Plan for Moms. 776 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: The ultimate pivot is not just changing your career, but 777 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,279 Speaker 1: it's changing your mindset, confronting the movement and choosing to 778 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: live your life guilt free. I live life, and I 779 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,720 Speaker 1: don't feel I used to feel guilty about living life. 780 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: You know what I'm talking about it. I know you're 781 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: shaking your eyes. Yes, yes, yes, And it's like and 782 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: it's funny because I used to always look at my husband, 783 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: who is equally ambitious, equally successful, and he never did 784 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 1: and a lot of men don't, but we do as women, 785 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: and so I don't want to live like that anymore. 786 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: I'm not living like that anymore, Rashma. Unfortunately we're out 787 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: of time. I could stay here literally all day and 788 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: talk to you. This has been inspiring, informative, fun maybe 789 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: even dare I say thank you? So much for joining us. 790 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 1: Thank you. Reshma is still working on advocating for mothers 791 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: through her organization, The Marshall Plan for Moms and with 792 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: her book Pay Up. The Marshall Plan for Moms advocates 793 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: for women's unpaid labor in the home and aims to 794 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,360 Speaker 1: transform our workplaces, government and our culture to enable moms 795 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: to thrive. Thank you for listening to this episode of 796 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: she Pivots, where I talk with women about how their 797 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: experiences and significant personal events led to their pivot and 798 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: eventually their success. To learn more about Reshma and her 799 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: latest book, follow us on Instagram at she Pivots the podcast. 800 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: Leave a rating and comment if you enjoyed this episode 801 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 1: to help others learn about it. A special thank you 802 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: to our partner Marie Clair and the team that made 803 00:42:51,040 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: this episode possible. Talk to you next week. Tired of 804 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: ads interrupting your gripping investigations, Good news. AD free listening 805 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: on Amazon Music is included with your Prime membership. Ads 806 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,879 Speaker 1: shouldn't be the scariest thing about true crime. Just head 807 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 1: to Amazon dot com slash ad free true Crime to 808 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. Shows. 809 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: A free for Punch descriptions. Some shows me have that 810 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: ready to disrupt your industry without disrupting your flow. The 811 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: LEV Evening NBA program at Santa Clara University could be 812 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: the perfect fit. The LEV School of Business is where 813 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: you'll reach new heights without compromising your current career. 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