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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode Illegally Brunette. I will

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Speaker 1: be your host, Emily Simpson and Shane Okay, we are

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Speaker 1: recording this podcast from Vegas and we are here at Bravocon.

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Speaker 1: So we thought it would be appropriate to do an

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Speaker 1: episode on the Mob and the new NBA scandal that's

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Speaker 1: come out, because if you know anything about Vegas, you

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Speaker 1: have to know that Vegas was.

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Speaker 2: Built by Ugsy.

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Speaker 3: I had the Mob? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: So organized crime played a foundational role in shaping early

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas. Beginning in the forties, mobsters from cities like Chicago,

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Speaker 1: New York, Cleveland, and Kansas City invested heavily in building casinos.

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Speaker 1: Along this trip, figures such as Bugsy Siegel, Meyer, Lansky,

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Speaker 1: and later Midwest crime syndicates help finance and operate major resorts,

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Speaker 1: using them both as profit centers and as fronts for

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Speaker 1: laundering money. So Jeff Shoemaker, who is the vice president

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Speaker 1: of Exhibits and Programs at the Mob Museum in Las Vegas, says,

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Speaker 1: organized crime in New York, Chicago, Miami they saw that

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Speaker 1: Vegas was an opportunity to pretend to go legit. There

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Speaker 1: had been illegal gambling clubs all over the country. For years,

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Speaker 1: the Mob would pay off the local sheriff and judges,

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Speaker 1: but still they'd raid the place every so often and

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Speaker 1: shut it down to give the appearance of law and order.

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Speaker 1: Rather than that, every couple of months, the Mob decided

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Speaker 1: to emigrate to Las Vegas to get involved with the

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Speaker 1: casino industry.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've been to the mall. I think I've

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Speaker 3: been to the Mob Museum twice.

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Speaker 2: Actually, well, once with me, I don't know, another time.

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Speaker 3: You want must have been with some.

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Speaker 1: Other man, probably, yes, but I've been. I think I've

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Speaker 1: been for them one time. You love that place, I do.

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Speaker 2: Know, I do.

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Speaker 1: I first of all, I love the Mob, I do.

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Speaker 1: And I love Mob movies like casino. Great movie The Godfather.

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Speaker 4: Remember when, yes, Emily watched The Godfather backwards?

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 4: She can't read, she watched it backwards.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is two thousand and six. I was living

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Speaker 1: in Sacramento.

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Speaker 3: Alone and was very confused.

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Speaker 1: Shane and I worked together. This is pre like I

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Speaker 1: had no This is like pre streaming services. So the

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Speaker 1: only way I could watch TV was I had to

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Speaker 1: go to Blockbuster, and I had to rent movies, and

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Speaker 1: so I rented The Godfather, And because the Godfather's Father

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Speaker 1: is so long, it came with two discs, and I

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Speaker 1: think someone put the discs in backwards.

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Speaker 4: So I thought you watched Godfather too, And then you

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Speaker 4: watched one. No, I watched disc two.

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Speaker 2: Godfather one.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I watched the second half of Godfather.

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Speaker 2: This is why you shouldn't live alone.

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Speaker 1: And then and then I watched the beginning and I

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Speaker 1: was so confused. Yes, okay, anyway, and you loved the

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Speaker 1: Mob ever since, and I was still entertained.

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Speaker 3: I loved it, So I love Mob movies.

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Speaker 1: The MOB quickly demonstrated that it knew how to operate

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Speaker 1: casinos efficiently, and its presence helped accelerate Las vegas transformation

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Speaker 1: from a small desert stopover into a major urban center.

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Speaker 1: As Shoemaker notes, remember he's the vice president of programming

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Speaker 1: at the Mob Museum. He noted that the city needed

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Speaker 1: people with real gambling industry experience, So the state's gaming

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Speaker 1: regulations included a grandfather clause that permitted gaming applicants who

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Speaker 1: had been involved in illegal gambling and other jurisdictions.

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Speaker 3: To work in Vegas.

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Speaker 1: So all those people that got banned from other jurisdictions

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Speaker 1: to get to come to Vegas and start over. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then they have all this experience and how to cheat, and.

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Speaker 2: Here we are and here we are.

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Speaker 3: All right?

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Speaker 2: So what that?

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Speaker 3: So it was Bugsy I think his name was Bugsy Malone.

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Speaker 4: No, that's a TV that's a movie with Scott Bao

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Speaker 4: and Jodi Foster.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yes, musical.

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Speaker 3: So it's Bugsy Seagull. Okay, got it.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about this recent NBA scandal that has

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Speaker 1: gone on that the Mob is involved in. So in

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Speaker 1: October of twenty twenty five, which is now, no, it's November.

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Speaker 1: It was last month, federal authorities unsealed indictments and a

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Speaker 1: major gambling operation involving mafia members, former and current NBA

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Speaker 1: figures and high stakes poker games.

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Speaker 2: What state does this end?

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Speaker 1: These poker games and all the scandals going on in

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas, Manhattan, Miami and the handles multiple jurisdictions. I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's like different crowds the Hamptons. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you have your Las Vegas crowd, then you have

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Speaker 1: like your Hampton's crowd.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if there's any boundaries to be drawn

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Speaker 4: for crime, but.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. It just seems like different.

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Speaker 2: But it's also.

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Speaker 4: People sports betting. Well, no, it wasn't sports bank. It

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Speaker 4: was truly just gambling with cards, right, yeah, I'm telling

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Speaker 4: you not okay, the look out your face was so

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Speaker 4: I'm telling you.

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Speaker 1: So there's two related criminal schemes that are at the

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Speaker 1: heart of the case, A rigged underground poker ring and

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Speaker 1: an illegal sports betting using insider NBA information. So those

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Speaker 1: are the sports betting and cards, it's right. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about who is involved in this. So Chauncey Billups

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Speaker 1: is the head coach of the Portland Trailblazers and a

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Speaker 1: former NBA All Star. He is charged in the poker scheme.

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Speaker 2: Was he okay? Go ahead? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Damon Jones, a former NBA player and coach, is also implicated.

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Speaker 1: Terry Rosier Rosier Rosier, current Miami Heat player you can

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Speaker 1: clearly tell I don't follow sports, is accused in the

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Speaker 1: sports betting part of the case, allegedly providing insider information

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Speaker 1: to betters. What is the insider information, like who's hurt,

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Speaker 1: who's playing like that kind of thing.

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't know, but it also might be pulling

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Speaker 4: people out like hey, so and so is not going

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Speaker 4: to be starting up on this game, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean that's an example of some things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like who's in the lineup, who's hurt?

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Speaker 4: I think if I remember correctly, assuming this is the

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Speaker 4: correct one, they would do things like that. So they

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Speaker 4: would actually pull like the coaches might pull players from

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Speaker 4: the court so that way they have less chance of winning.

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Speaker 4: Or whether it be maybe maybe there's bets on points

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Speaker 4: from certain players.

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Speaker 3: So they would pull them out because much thing.

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Speaker 4: But there's a lot of different ways to bets, not

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Speaker 4: just win or lose. It could be by how many

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Speaker 4: points and things like that, or what player gets so

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Speaker 4: many points and so then if this coach is in

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Speaker 4: on it and he pulls you know, so and so out,

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Speaker 4: and then now they win the.

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Speaker 1: Bets, so prosecutors. Prosecutors say, associates from four New York

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Speaker 1: mafia families.

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Speaker 3: I don't why wasn't I born into a mania family?

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Speaker 4: Why do moms families have associates? Like is there a

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Speaker 4: junior associate a senior associate? Well, there's a hierarchy to

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Speaker 4: partner after seven years. Yeah, I just want to know why.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't born into a mafia family. There's the there's

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Speaker 1: four New York mafia families, the Banano family, the Gambinos,

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Speaker 1: the Genovies, and the Luccicies.

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Speaker 2: You don't want to be in a mob family.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it sounds no eccentric, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: So these four families, these New York mafia families helped

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Speaker 1: run this ring.

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Speaker 3: This is my favorite part.

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Speaker 1: A Las Vegas figure named Shane sugar Hennan is among

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Speaker 1: those arrested, and he is to have He is alleged

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Speaker 1: to have ties to betting networks O Sugar Shade.

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Speaker 3: All right, so.

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Speaker 1: How did this scam work? So the poker games were

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Speaker 1: not ordinary? Prosecutors alleged that the participants use sophisticated cheating technologies,

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Speaker 1: and sophisticated it was. Some of the tech reportedly use

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Speaker 1: was altered shuffling machines that secretly read the cards. See

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Speaker 1: this is crazy. This is when you get to the

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Speaker 1: point where there is so much tech, like, how do

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Speaker 1: you how do you play these games anymore in a

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Speaker 1: leget way without there just being some Well.

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Speaker 4: Clearly these people didn't know that they're being duped, but

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Speaker 4: they put the cards in the misshuffling machines and the

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Speaker 4: shuffling machines would shuffle, but it would also read the

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Speaker 4: card and then it didn't just read the cards to

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Speaker 4: know like what card is where, but it would know.

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Speaker 4: So you would insert in the machine five players for example,

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Speaker 4: and then you shuffle shuffle the cards, and then it

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Speaker 4: would know player one has is going to win or

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Speaker 4: player two is gonna win because of the way the cards,

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Speaker 4: because it could read the card is so fast, and

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Speaker 4: then you know, I don't know how, but there's obviously

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Speaker 4: communications and things like that, so then I would know,

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Speaker 4: you know, player number two is gonna win. So maybe

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Speaker 4: I would fold or mean I would be hard, or

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Speaker 4: I don't know because I don't know if they're playing

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Speaker 4: Texas hold them, or what kind of cards you were playing,

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Speaker 4: But it would determine the outcome before the before anyone

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Speaker 4: even looked at their cards.

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Speaker 1: So they were also used X ray poker tables, hidden

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Speaker 1: cameras and chip trays, and even contact lenses or glasses

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Speaker 1: that could detect marked cards.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and they had they had some technology where you

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Speaker 4: could shuffle like one deck without a machine. You shuffle

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Speaker 4: the deck and stack the deck right and just put

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Speaker 4: it on the felt table and then you'd have your

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Speaker 4: the dealer, for example, or someone would have their phone

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Speaker 4: on the table face down or whatever, just looking like

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Speaker 4: that's where they're placing their phone, but it's not a

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Speaker 4: real phone. Their phone would have a camera some type

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Speaker 4: of scanning device and it would scan the side of

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Speaker 4: the deck that's stacked, and it's like a barcode and

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Speaker 4: it would read and it would know right then and

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Speaker 4: there who's.

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Speaker 2: Going to have what card and who's going to win.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I feel like the only way that you

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Speaker 1: could legitimately play poker is if everybody just shows up

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Speaker 1: naked and with a card table and that's it.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of that's my kind of card game.

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Speaker 3: That's that's it.

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Speaker 1: That's all you're allowed to have in the room is

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Speaker 1: like a card table, a plastic fold out card table.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you should net.

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Speaker 1: You should sho no phones, no clothes, no glasses, no

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Speaker 1: contact lenses.

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Speaker 4: Sounds like fun, but you may be getting into this

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Speaker 4: when you're looking into it further. But they would use

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Speaker 4: NBA stars also to attract big.

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Speaker 3: Players because they get to play with them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's like, hey, we're having a card game,

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Speaker 4: so and so and so and so and all these people.

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Speaker 2: Are gonna be there, and you know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what NBA.

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Speaker 4: Players, and I don't want to like claim, but they're

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Speaker 4: saying all these people are gonna be there. So then

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Speaker 4: you're thinking, sweet, I'm gonna go be with some high rollers,

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Speaker 4: some some athletes. If you're an NBA fan, there's a

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Speaker 4: big deal. You're gonna bet big, You're gonna you know,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna play, and then you're gonna lose all your money.

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Speaker 1: So there was an organized system. Information from the rigged

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Speaker 1: machines would be passed to co conspirators, who then signaled

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Speaker 1: winning hands to other players to exploit the rig.

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Speaker 2: There you go.

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Speaker 1: When players lost and refuse to pay, Prosecutors say the

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Speaker 1: mob used intimidation or threats to collect the debts. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a win when like you lose and then

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Speaker 1: you have the mob comes after you. The profits were

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Speaker 1: laundered through shell companies, cash exchanges, and even cryptocurrency. According

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Speaker 1: to officials, this game defrauded victims of tens of millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars. This case is being seen as a stark

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Speaker 1: reminder that organized crime LaCOSA Nostra is still operating and

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Speaker 1: adapting even using modern technology to pull off fraud for

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Speaker 1: the NBA. The scandal raises serious questions about integrity, given

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Speaker 1: that active and former players coaches are implicated in both

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Speaker 1: gambling and rigged poker.

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Speaker 3: That's like, how can you watch a.

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Speaker 1: Game and not think that now that people there's you know,

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Speaker 1: like they're playing a certain way or losing or missing

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Speaker 1: shots or I mean, there's no integrity in the game

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Speaker 1: when you know things like this, that's what it's crime. Like,

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Speaker 1: how do you restore what I'm saying, but I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: how do you restore integrity to a game? Now?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, because they came in and they cleaned house,

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Speaker 4: so you kind of hope it. You know, they're they'll

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Speaker 4: probably regulate a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know for that. Ask your

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Speaker 2: mob family.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a mob family. I was not born

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Speaker 1: into the mob. I was born in midwest Ohio.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, ask your mom why she wasn't part of

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Speaker 2: a mob family.

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Speaker 1: A separate related indictment also accused Damon Jones and others

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Speaker 1: of being part of a sports betting scheme that utilized

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Speaker 1: insider information about player injuries or intentions to influence bets

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Speaker 1: on NBA games. How did here's my question, how did

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Speaker 1: they How did it get to the point that the

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Speaker 1: FBI was investigating?

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Speaker 3: Did someone was there? Was there a league started it? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but someone had to come forward, don't

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Speaker 2: you think.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, something some hint, some some whistle blow or something,

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Speaker 4: some whistleblower, right, But I did. I think they were

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Speaker 4: investigating as far as back as like ten years, right,

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Speaker 4: So I mean it's it's been ongoing.

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Speaker 3: So they just allow this to go on for a decade.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it's quite a yet. Well, no,

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Speaker 2: you have to investigate. You have to.

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Speaker 4: What are you gonna do just walk into the mob

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Speaker 4: and say, let me see your card shuffling machines?

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, you have to. I've seen

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Speaker 3: this and mob movies. You have to. When they're you

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Speaker 3: find out where they meet.

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Speaker 1: Like at what restaurant, and then you have to put

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Speaker 1: surveillance in. But you have to wait until they're all gone,

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Speaker 1: and then you have to sneak in and you have

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Speaker 1: to put surveillance cameras in and then you sit in

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Speaker 1: the van and you listen.

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Speaker 2: Is that what you saw on disc two of Godfather.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is the indictment's name members of old.

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Speaker 2: In a panel van out in the story. I've seen

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Speaker 2: it or something.

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Speaker 1: And then they're listening the terminator termites, terminator, not termite

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Speaker 1: inspection whatever.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's very comical, like school, like old school.

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Speaker 3: So you're saying it's more sophisticated now, I would think so.

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Speaker 3: I would think so.

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Speaker 1: The indictment's name members and associates of the Gambino Genevie's,

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Speaker 1: Banano and Lucisi. I don't know if I'm saying that right,

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Speaker 1: but I like to say it. Lucii, Lucci Si mafia

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Speaker 1: families are being as being a moddyre she s here

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Speaker 1: you go, as being involved in organizing the games, collecting debts,

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Speaker 1: and using threats and violence to enforce payments. So the

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Speaker 1: question is is the mob still as active as it

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Speaker 1: once was? Apparently so, federal agencies consistently confirmed that LaCOSA Nostra,

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Speaker 1: the Italian American mafia and Sicilian mafia, remains active, with

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Speaker 1: families in New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Chicago, and a

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Speaker 1: few smaller regions.

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Speaker 2: I believe it.

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Speaker 1: They still maintain traditional high hierarchical hierarchical structures. Boss, here's

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Speaker 1: your structure, you ready, Boss, underboss, captains, soldiers, junior associates

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Speaker 1: and associates. No, it's associated junior associates in them.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to I'm going to reach out.

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Speaker 1: However, fbicked crackdowns throughout the eighties and nineties, especially Rico prosecutions.

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Speaker 3: Well, we know why Rico was enacted. Why was Rico enacted.

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Speaker 2: Because of the mob?

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Speaker 3: Exactly because that was their way to get stand.

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Speaker 1: For Oh man, No, it's not Rico suaveianization.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's it.

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Speaker 1: However, FBI crackdowns throughout the eighties and nineties, especially Rico,

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Speaker 1: crippled many families.

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Speaker 3: Membership numbers are the membership numbers are down.

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Speaker 2: Recruitment is low.

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Speaker 3: It's really it's low.

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Speaker 2: Morale, the mob morale right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they got to get their numbers out, and their

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Speaker 1: political influence is nowhere near what it once was.

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Speaker 4: There.

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Speaker 3: What their political influence? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What's that mean? Like? Did they campaign? No?

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Speaker 3: I think they were able to bribe politicians. Yes, I

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Speaker 3: don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Did you ever watch Growing Up Gottie, I've seen I

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Speaker 4: remember seeing it like here and there, Yes, I thought

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Speaker 4: it was ridiculous because I don't like glamorizing that stuff.

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Speaker 4: I remember an episode where he got his grandfather tattooed

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Speaker 4: on his arm or something like.

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Speaker 3: The grand the grandson's.

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Speaker 2: That's why I said his grandfather.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, so it's a Victoria Gotti was the mother

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Speaker 1: and she was the daughter of John Gotti. Correct, And

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Speaker 1: then they there was a reality show about their family,

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Speaker 1: and then she had the two boys.

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Speaker 2: Right. I don't know if the multiple boys.

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Speaker 3: What year do you think that was.

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Speaker 1: I think it was premor it was pre emily, definitely

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Speaker 1: pre emily, so it was prior to two thousand and

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago.

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Speaker 4: But I remember thinking like, they, Okay, that's fine, you

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Speaker 4: can you probably had he probably had experiences with his

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Speaker 4: grandfather as a grandson and grandfather.

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Speaker 2: That's fine. I want to take away from that.

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Speaker 4: But I'm sorry, he's a murderer and you're you're trying

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Speaker 4: to like and he's dead and gone and you're tattooing

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Speaker 4: him on your shoulder to look.

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Speaker 2: Like I don't know, it's just like he's a killer.

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Speaker 2: You can't do that. You can't.

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Speaker 4: But I mean, that's like you is that what you

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Speaker 4: want to do? That kind of person you want to be.

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Speaker 4: You want to glamorize your grandfather, Like I'm telling he's

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Speaker 4: murdered many people, maybe not with his hands.

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Speaker 3: But at his instruction.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, he's dead now, John Gotti's dead, right, didn't

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Speaker 1: die in prison?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he died in his celf. Twenty three hour Lockwow.

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Speaker 1: I think the mom in Mafia is glamorized in all

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Speaker 1: the movies. Even though it shows all the murders and

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Speaker 1: the corruption, it's still I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know, I know, I just I just remember thinking that.

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Speaker 3: It's about the family.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's family values, it's about the family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Wait, did the mafia?

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Speaker 1: The mafia came into existence because of prohibition?

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: That's where it came from, right in the twenties.

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Speaker 4: I think it grew there. I think goes back to

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Speaker 4: Italy though it truly does. And then but then they

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Speaker 4: can actually go back thousands of years biblically.

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Speaker 3: But go ahead, Oh well that was very profound.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, say that for another conversation. That's a different pods.

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Speaker 1: But it became the mafia became I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say popular, but during the twenties, during prohibition, right, because

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Speaker 1: they it was the underground of the beau.

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Speaker 4: Was illegal and so yeah, but I mean they do

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Speaker 4: all kinds of things, and they have like garbage trucks

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Speaker 4: and stuff, and you know that's probably how they hide

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Speaker 4: the bodies they go pick up.

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Speaker 1: No, but you know what, I started watching the other

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Speaker 1: day and I watched I think like the first three episodes.

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Speaker 1: It was The Sopranos. I've never watched that before, okay,

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Speaker 1: because I read an article about the ending of the Sopranos,

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Speaker 1: so how so many people don't know how to interpret it,

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Speaker 1: and it was like this bizarre ending and the very

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Speaker 1: last episode in the finale.

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Speaker 2: So then I go to watch that one in order

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Speaker 2: or backwards.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to try to start at the beginning and

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Speaker 3: go in order. Okay, that's my plan.

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Speaker 2: If you need help, okay, let me know, thank you.

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Speaker 1: So the mafia is not as powerful or visible as

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Speaker 1: it once was during the mid nineteen hundreds, but it

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Speaker 1: is still active, organized and profitable in several regions. It's

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Speaker 1: just evolved into a quieter, more financially driven version of itself.

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Speaker 1: And they are recruiting more members currently, okay, because membership

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Speaker 1: numbers are down.

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Speaker 4: I hope they file bankruptcy that would be better. They

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Speaker 4: need to go away. They're killers. Mafia is killed. You

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Speaker 4: say you want to be born in a family of killers?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: No, well you know I did see in The Godfather

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Speaker 1: they killed the horse and that that just did it.

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Speaker 1: That's where the line I draw the line at that.

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Speaker 1: When he woke up with the horse head in the bed,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm out. I don't want to be

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Speaker 1: a part.

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Speaker 2: Of a horse killers. We got a problem.

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Speaker 3: I have a serious problem with that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, if it was a pony, would that be

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Speaker 2: even more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't even go there. Thank you everyone for

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Speaker 1: listening to this episode of Legally Brunette. As always, you

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Speaker 1: can follow us on our own feed, so please make

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Speaker 1: sure to do that. That's where all our episodes will be.

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Speaker 1: And also please leave us a review. And if you

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Speaker 1: have any cases that you would like us to discuss

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Speaker 1: or argue about or banter about, we would love to

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Speaker 1: hear from you, so please dm me on Instagram and

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening.

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Speaker 2: Thank you