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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel Matt.

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Speaker 2: Today we're talking cheap Chinese AI, free tax filing, and

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Speaker 2: out pacing inflation.

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Speaker 3: It's hard for you to say cheap Chinese AI. When

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Speaker 3: do you immediately think of like food. Let's just run

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Speaker 3: on grab some cheap Chinese food. No, we are going

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Speaker 3: to talk about Nvidia.

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Speaker 1: They're still not doing great.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about kung pou chicken instead. Which is that

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Speaker 3: your go to kunk pau? A little bit of sesame chicken?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I like this sesame chicken tip.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so there's a place nearby where it's a Chinese place,

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Speaker 3: but you get like a dry crispy beef. I think,

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Speaker 3: is what the what it's called on the menu? Oh

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Speaker 3: my goodness, so good. Skip over the low main noodles

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Speaker 3: and everything else on the menudus and forget the orange

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Speaker 3: glazed general sALS, the be beef and the tingle that

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Speaker 3: you get on the lips with the oh so good.

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Speaker 3: If only this sort of food podcast it's been for

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Speaker 3: ever since Kate and I've been there. But we need

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Speaker 3: to add that back to our date night list.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so we got a lot to get to,

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Speaker 2: but real quick, Matt, I just wanted to mention something

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Speaker 2: personal note, And we talk about this. Sometimes people will

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Speaker 2: ask us about canceling a credit card, Hey, does it

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Speaker 2: make sense? Is going to negatively impact my credit score

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Speaker 2: too much? And our thoughts are often, Hey, try not

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Speaker 2: to cancel it if you can avoid it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you don't have need for a great credit score

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Speaker 2: in the near future, who cares. You can probably cancel it,

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Speaker 2: no big deal, a little rebound.

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Speaker 3: But if not, just stick the card in the drawer

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Speaker 3: and just don't spend all.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: But if it's got an annual fee, then the you

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Speaker 2: don't want it cost in you the stakes are higher, right,

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Speaker 2: And so I actually recently canceled or didn't cancel. I

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Speaker 2: downgraded my AMX Blue Cash Preferred card to the no fee.

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Speaker 1: Six percent groceries.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I wasn't getting enough value out of it,

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Speaker 2: because you know why, I do most of my grocery

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Speaker 2: shopping at Costco.

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Speaker 1: Now, spending all your money Costco is more expensive, you know.

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Speaker 2: But I'm doing the insta card hack that I told

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Speaker 2: you about, and it's same.

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Speaker 1: So you're spending way more money.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm spending the exact same amount of money and

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Speaker 2: actually probably less because fewer impulse.

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Speaker 3: Purchases at Costco tracker spending. Get it all together, we'll

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Speaker 3: look get it up at the end of the year.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if you want, I'll let you know how it shakes.

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Speaker 1: Cos's expensive.

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Speaker 3: I mean, compare it to all the at least you're

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Speaker 3: not spending at least because the threshold, I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 3: it's like three hundred bucks. If you're spending three hundred

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Speaker 3: bucks at all D or Legal or something like that,

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Speaker 3: you know you're not even spending that much at Legal

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Speaker 3: every month. No, I'm not to be honest because I

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Speaker 3: think because it's a like one hundred dollars or ninety

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Speaker 3: five dollars annual fee and the additional three so you

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Speaker 3: get three percent cash back with your everyday card, then

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Speaker 3: you're paying nothing with an annual fees on that card,

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Speaker 3: but paying that basically one hundred bucks gets you that

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Speaker 3: additional three percent cash back, So you got it. There's

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Speaker 3: a threshold, and I'm pretty sure it's.

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Speaker 1: Like three hundred.

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Speaker 2: I'm just not hitting it right, fifty just not hitting it.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, it's time.

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Speaker 3: And we spend that much in like one visit when

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Speaker 3: we go to the lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Well, and we just.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we also do spend less at at Costco,

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Speaker 3: which brings up an interesting point because it's limited to

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Speaker 3: there's a there's an annual cap, and I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 3: it's that five hundred dollars. It's a six thousand dollars limit,

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Speaker 3: because it's like, hey, you can earn six percent I

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Speaker 3: know on the Blue Cash preferred card up to six

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Speaker 3: six thousand dollars, but beyond that you only earn one percent.

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Speaker 3: And I just realized, I don't think I've ever tracked

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Speaker 3: our spending from the standpoint.

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Speaker 1: I know we've got over that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I bet we have, because I know that we've

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Speaker 3: always at least spent three hundred dollars at Aldi or

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Speaker 3: in you know, legal and other random spots at Kroger Republics.

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Speaker 3: But man, I bet there's a good chance we've actually

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Speaker 3: gone over that where we're only earning one percent on

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Speaker 3: every charge. Who knows, maybe maybe by the time we

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Speaker 3: hit like October or something like that. I've never tracked

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Speaker 3: You got to pivot. I have never tracked my spending

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Speaker 3: from the standpoint of how much or how many annual

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Speaker 3: dollars have I put on this preferred card, and I'm

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Speaker 3: about to add a new cell to on my spread.

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Speaker 2: But now, yeah, you might have to get a little

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Speaker 2: more granular with it, which sounds like something you'd be into.

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Speaker 1: I love this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: Then I'll tell Kate beyond a certain point, that's when

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Speaker 3: we switched to the City Double Cash card, at least.

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Speaker 1: Get two percent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I just word of the wise out there.

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Speaker 2: If there's a card that you have an annual fee

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Speaker 2: on that you're not getting enough value out out of.

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Speaker 1: You could cancel, or you could just reach out.

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Speaker 3: I mean I literally did a quick chat on the

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Speaker 3: American Express website and I was like, can you downgrade

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Speaker 3: me to the you know, blue cash that doesn't have

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Speaker 3: the annual fee. They're like, sure, we'll send it out.

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Speaker 3: So it took like almost no time, going to save

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Speaker 3: me ninety five bucks a year. If you're not taking

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Speaker 3: advantage of what they're offering, there's no sense in pain

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Speaker 3: for him, is right?

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Speaker 2: All right, Let's get to the Friday flight sampling the

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Speaker 2: stories we found interesting this week.

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Speaker 1: Matt.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with the big one. It happened on Monday,

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Speaker 2: sent the stock market into a tizzy. Do you know

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Speaker 2: what we're going to talk about right now, of course I.

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Speaker 1: Do, okay.

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Speaker 2: So the deep Seek AI, the Chinese AI system that

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Speaker 2: impacted text tech stocks to a significant degree. In Nvidia,

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Speaker 2: which has been the high flying stock of the last

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Speaker 2: couple of years, shed six hundred billion dollars of value

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Speaker 2: in one day, which I think was the largest dollar

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Speaker 2: amountain drop for any stock in history at any point

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Speaker 2: in history, which makes sense, right, all because of this

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Speaker 2: Chinese app, this upstart app called deep Seek, which hit

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Speaker 2: the app store, the Apple app store. And so deep

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Speaker 2: Seak is a Chinese artificial intelligence company and it created

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Speaker 2: what some are calling a superior AI product that it's

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Speaker 2: at least as good, if not better than many of

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Speaker 2: the American made artificial intelligence products currently on the market.

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Speaker 2: But the big news is that they were able to

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Speaker 2: do it at least apparently for a fraction of the cost,

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Speaker 2: for like six million bucks, using a whole lot less

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Speaker 2: of those super fancy, incredibly expensive chips that a company

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Speaker 2: like Nvidia would make, which is why it impacted them.

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Speaker 2: And then Mark Andreessen, who's you know, big time tech

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Speaker 2: nerd founder of many startups, he called it AI's Sputnik

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Speaker 2: moment Matten. I wasn't alive back then when Sputnik launched,

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Speaker 2: but it's the space when you read about US history.

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Speaker 2: That was a big moment in US history, essentially propelling

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Speaker 2: US towards greater heights and towards beating the Russians into space.

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Speaker 2: And since we live in a globally connected world, that

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Speaker 2: impacts American artificial intelligence and tech companies. But as the

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Speaker 2: news I think has been digested, this is actually maybe

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Speaker 2: not as bad as it initially seemed. It could be

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Speaker 2: actually good news for a whole lot of tech companies

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Speaker 2: because it means they're going to be able to get

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Speaker 2: more bang for their buck on AI spending that got

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Speaker 2: incredibly expensive really fast. And this what this made me

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Speaker 2: think of was Moore's law, which is essentially the fact

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Speaker 2: that chips that the silicon chips, they get twice as

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Speaker 2: good roughly every two years. And actually that's happening at

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Speaker 2: a faster rate than what Moore's.

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Speaker 1: Law would state. Right now.

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Speaker 2: I believe that increased efficiency reduces energy needs for artificial intelligence,

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Speaker 2: which has been a problem. Something's been talked about quite

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Speaker 2: a lot, how much energy artificial intelligence is siphoning, and

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Speaker 2: it should lower the cost meaningfully. So I think ultimately

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Speaker 2: this is probably a good thing, and American companies, they're

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Speaker 2: not going to be left in the dust for long.

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Speaker 2: I guess some people might be wondering, oh, man, should

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Speaker 2: this change how I invest I saw the stock market,

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Speaker 2: you know, just get slammed on Monday, and I get

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Speaker 2: maybe that impulse. But our answer, as always is no.

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Speaker 2: But it is why you should have a diversified portfolio.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, this is why you do not invest in single companies.

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Speaker 1: And it makes me.

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Speaker 3: Think about the burgeoning narrative about stocks overall, like the

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Speaker 3: wide stock market being overvalued, and that might be true,

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Speaker 3: particularly in certain segments.

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Speaker 1: Of the tech sector.

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Speaker 3: But even if stocks in general and some particular ones

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Speaker 3: are overvalued, there's not much that you can do besides

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Speaker 3: just continuing to invest. We still like dollar cost averaging

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Speaker 3: because honestly, what's the alternative investors? I will say, who

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Speaker 3: are let's say, getting closer to needing their money. If

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Speaker 3: you are getting closer to your retirement years and they

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Speaker 3: are you're a little more in the wealth preservation stage

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Speaker 3: of your life, I think it might be worth considering

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Speaker 3: a more conservative approach. For instance, Vanguard, they're suggesting these days,

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Speaker 3: the forty sixty balance instead of the often touted sixty

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Speaker 3: forty allocated portfolio, so more of a forty percent exposure

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Speaker 3: to stocks sixty percent bonds. And this is largely because

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Speaker 3: of their view that stocks come with a higher volatility.

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Speaker 3: But don't let these stock market stories, these blips, the

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Speaker 3: ever shifting narratives change your approach.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned the.

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Speaker 3: How Deep Sea the Chinese company was able to do

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Speaker 3: it more efficiently. There's like investigations now as to whether

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Speaker 3: or not they're actually cribbon open AIS. No, it's a

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Speaker 3: little bit essentially. I think they're calling it distillation, where

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Speaker 3: it's like, wait a minute, this other large language model

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Speaker 3: owned by the Chinese was actually learning from open ai

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Speaker 3: Chat GBT essentially makes it without doing all the hard work.

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Speaker 2: Which makes sense, I mean does join Astarn in The

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Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal had a really funny article basically Light

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Speaker 2: and Chat Cheep and Sam Altman on Fire about that, say, hey,

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Speaker 2: you basically stole all this information from creators across the internet.

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Speaker 3: Sam Altman would say, well, I'm doing the hard work though,

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Speaker 3: of creating the actual large language language model, whereas Deep

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Speaker 3: See they're just I almost think of it as like

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Speaker 3: almost like a white label, you know, like you buy

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Speaker 3: products and it's like, Okay, you just slap the label

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Speaker 3: on there, and all of a sudden, it's a new product.

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Speaker 3: It's like no, no, no, no, the other companies still actually did

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Speaker 3: the hard work of the initial lift. I guess all

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: Is there's a lot of creators out there who didn't

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Speaker 2: give any permission sand to crib their writings the things

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Speaker 2: that they've created, and yet they got taken anyway. So

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Speaker 2: maybe a little bit of karmic justice. But Matt, it's

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Speaker 2: not just artificial intelligence that space being upended by change.

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Speaker 2: Diamonds that you dig out of the earth are also

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Speaker 2: being upstaged by lab grown diamonds. This is something we've

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Speaker 2: talked about in the past, but this sea change is

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Speaker 2: accelerating more quickly. Natural diamond prices have gone down in

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Speaker 2: price by eight percent recently, largely because lab grown diamonds

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Speaker 2: are becoming more pop and cheaper. Lab grown diamond prices

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Speaker 2: have actually plummeted by seventy five percent. So wow, it's

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Speaker 2: no wonder that people are saying, yeah, I'll choose that

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Speaker 2: option instead. If you're like proposing to your sweetheart or something,

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Speaker 2: like that, right, they're essentially equal stones. Like the naked

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Speaker 2: eye can't really perceive a difference between lab grown diamonds

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Speaker 2: and diamonds that are dug up out of the ground.

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Speaker 2: And so you know, brides and grooms they're taking notice,

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Speaker 2: and now more than half of engagement rings are being

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Speaker 2: sold with lab grown diamonds. You can you can, for real,

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Speaker 2: I like it, same size, same look, everything, you can

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Speaker 2: save eighty percent and the naked eye can't detect any difference.

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Speaker 2: I'm all for this kind of shakeup. Yeah, maybe we

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Speaker 2: should propose our wives again, Matt, start buying them some blinge.

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Speaker 1: What do you think?

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Speaker 3: There's a part of me that tempted, Like what I

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Speaker 3: wish was that this would have been available to us

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Speaker 3: when we're younger. Yeah, but like there's a part of

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Speaker 3: me that gets excited, Like when I think about it

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Speaker 3: for a minute, I get like pretty stoked. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: oh sweet, I could buy a Kate just some serious blaze,

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Speaker 3: and it sounds fun for like a second, but then

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Speaker 3: I'm like, well, why would I want to do that?

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Speaker 3: And I immediately talk myself out of it, Like I

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Speaker 3: don't think she.

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Speaker 1: Don't really care about that. They don't eat.

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Speaker 3: No, they don't, and they'd rather get a bunch of others.

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Speaker 3: She loves her old ring, even if it was just

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Speaker 3: like pennies. It's just like, well, why do I want

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Speaker 3: to wear like this giant, gaudy piece of jewelry? And

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Speaker 3: oftentimes I think it comes down to what other people think,

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Speaker 3: And dude, we don't care what anybody.

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Speaker 1: Thinks, espureing to project anything.

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Speaker 3: I don't even wear my I feel bad because the

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Speaker 3: ring that those ladies are hitting on you is it's

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Speaker 3: like a family heirloom kind of ring and it means

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Speaker 3: a lot. And I actually stopped wearing it when I

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Speaker 3: started lifting more often because I didn't want to damage it.

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Speaker 1: You were the silicone I hate those. I'm not really yeah,

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Speaker 1: not comfortable.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't bother me, but it's cool to see and

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Speaker 2: I'd be curious to know too. If any how, the

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Speaker 2: money listeners have gone the lab so and maybe they

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Speaker 2: were debating going with a real diamond dug out of

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Speaker 2: the ground and then they were like.

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Speaker 3: Wait a second, no man, no, I'm just gonna save

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Speaker 3: a ton of much to the synthetic.

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Speaker 1: That's huge. Yeah, let us know how it went. By

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Speaker 1: the way I don't care.

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Speaker 3: But dude, for all the folks out there who are

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Speaker 3: single or thinking about proposing, oh one percent, a game

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Speaker 3: changer for them.

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Speaker 2: And I think I read something about now the status

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Speaker 2: symbol is brown diamonds. I don't know how hard those

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Speaker 2: are to come by, but I guess maybe you can't

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Speaker 2: manufacture interesting brown diamonds in the same way. So that's

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Speaker 2: how you're now letting people know I've got the real thing,

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Speaker 2: and I spend a lot more money for it, so.

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Speaker 3: Instead of calling it blinging, they call it blung.

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Speaker 2: Humans will always find a way to try to show

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Speaker 2: their status externally. Let's talk about taxes. As of Monday,

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Speaker 2: you can start filing your taxes.

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Speaker 1: Hooray.

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Speaker 2: I know everyone's so excited for tax season.

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Speaker 1: It's so much fun.

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Speaker 2: And there are some ways that you can file for free.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to pay a dime to fire or taxes,

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Speaker 2: which is really the way it should be. And the

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Speaker 2: IRS's direct file system is up and running for the

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Speaker 2: second year in a row and is now available in

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Speaker 2: twenty five states. There actually are some rumors that the

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Speaker 2: current administration might try to do away with this direct filesystem.

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Speaker 1: We will see.

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Speaker 2: And there are income limitations by the way, filing direct

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Speaker 2: file through the IRS if it's available in your state.

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Speaker 2: Single folks can't make more than two hundred thousand bucks.

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Speaker 2: Married folks can't make more than two fifty. Sorry, Matt,

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Speaker 2: you're out because I know I'm out.

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Speaker 3: You're loaded, not because of that, because of how complicated

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Speaker 3: are are.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's yeah, that's true too. It's about the real estate. Man.

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Speaker 2: Well, we haven't used it ourselves, not because we're making millions.

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Speaker 2: But we haven't heard any ringing endorsements either from anyone.

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Speaker 2: I haven't heard anyone say this was so great, But

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Speaker 2: I guess still free is free, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: worth pointing out math that there are other free options

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Speaker 2: as well. Turbo tax has a free option for people

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Speaker 2: with basic tax situations, and they're available to people who

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Speaker 2: file on the Turbo tax app before February eighteenth. Apparently

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Speaker 2: that's their deadline for some reason. But if you do

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Speaker 2: file before then, it's legit free this year. And the

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Speaker 2: cash app still the best free tax software that we're

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Speaker 2: aware of, with zero hoops to jump through, free, federal,

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Speaker 2: free state. So I don't know why that doesn't get

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Speaker 2: more pressed. But Cash app taxes everyone should know about that.

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Speaker 2: Pretty solid.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I will say today is the deadline for so

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Speaker 3: I got to send out some ten ninety nine out

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Speaker 3: so the folks who help us here with the podcast yea.

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Speaker 1: And on the website.

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Speaker 3: Today's January thirty, first, last last day to make that happen. Hey,

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Speaker 3: wait to the last minute. But going back to what

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Speaker 3: I what I mentioned though, as far as the complexity

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Speaker 3: of your tax situation, I think it's worth highlighting that

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Speaker 3: because I think for some folks free filing it might

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Speaker 3: be a cheap move, not a frugal move, and it's

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Speaker 3: worth paying up. If you have a more complicated cadd scenario,

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Speaker 3: it would be worth it to do that. The savings

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Speaker 3: that a seasoned tax professional would be able to find

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Speaker 3: for you, that's actually the frugal move. Yeah, if you're prioritizing,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to pay that person four or five

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Speaker 3: hundred bucks to do something I could do myself or

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Speaker 3: I could use the inexpensive software for But then you're

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Speaker 3: not getting all the tax credits or deductions that are

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Speaker 3: available to Yeah, and keeping up with all those forms

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Speaker 3: is potentially that's true.

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Speaker 1: That's true.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to mention so ten ninety nine k's. Don't

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Speaker 3: forget those. They might start showing up in your mailbox

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Speaker 3: if you use stub hub, eBay, or Etsy regularly for

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Speaker 3: some for some side hustle income, you might be getting

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Speaker 3: a ten ninety nine K. Five thousand dollars in sales

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Speaker 3: is the threshold for this past year for your twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four taxes, and basically millions of Americans who have

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Speaker 3: never received a ten ninety nine K will be getting

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Speaker 3: one this year. You were already supposed to report this income,

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Speaker 3: but honestly, many folks don't do that.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like you remember when the advent of

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Speaker 2: the Internet and you could buy stuff on Amazon, you

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Speaker 2: didn't have to pay sales tax.

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Speaker 1: Oh I think that golden era.

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Speaker 3: There's like a period of time but you were supposed

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Speaker 3: to self report, but nobody did. Oh really, I don't

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Speaker 3: remember that, just like voluntary sales tax paid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow.

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Speaker 3: So we bring this up because even more folks are

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Speaker 3: going to get these forms next year and even more

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Speaker 3: the following year in twenty twenty six as the reporting

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Speaker 3: thresholds drop for ten ninety nine K income. And one

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Speaker 3: more wrench to throw in the gears is crypto sales.

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Speaker 3: If you are a regular trader of the cryptocurrencies, don't

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Speaker 3: forget too out for capital gains taxes. I think this

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Speaker 3: is more something that folks were dealing with back in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty twenty one, when there's a little more cash

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Speaker 3: sloshing around and still a lot of cash quote unquote

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Speaker 3: investing in crypto. Yeah, there is cash.

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Speaker 2: You saw the Trump coin, the Millennia coin, you saw bitcoin.

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Speaker 3: When folks file their twenty five taxes, they're only going

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Speaker 3: to be reporting losses when it.

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Speaker 1: Comes to those coins. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about tax refunds for just a second, Matt.

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Speaker 2: Friend of the show, Michelle Singletary, she just wrote in

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Speaker 2: the Washington Post about why she really dislikes tax refunds,

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Speaker 2: and I think you and I we mostly agree with

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Speaker 2: her on this. You get a tax refund because you

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Speaker 2: have too much money withheld, and essentially you're giving the

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Speaker 2: government an interest free loan. Some folks, though, use this

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Speaker 2: methodology as like a forced method of savings. I think

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Speaker 2: it's important to think about what that refund money could

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Speaker 2: have done for you throughout the year instead of getting

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Speaker 2: in a one lump sum right the following year. So

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Speaker 2: if you had, let's say, not gotten a big tax refund,

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Speaker 2: you could have had more money in every single paycheck,

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Speaker 2: putting it into a Higeld savings account or into the

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Speaker 2: stock market in twenty twenty four. What if you'd been

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Speaker 2: doing that the whole time you've been dollar cost averaging,

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Speaker 2: throwing more money into the market instead of waiting essentially

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Speaker 2: fourteen fifteen months to get that money back in a

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Speaker 2: lump sum. You could have been more optimized, more efficient.

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Speaker 1: But I think the.

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Speaker 2: Reason too, Matt, that I said maybe I mostly agree

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Speaker 2: with Michelle here but not all the way is because

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Speaker 2: you could have also done stupid stuff with that money.

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Speaker 2: That's true, and for some people who aren't as buttoned

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Speaker 2: up like this really is one of the best opportunities

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Speaker 2: that comes along to jumpstart a financial goal that you have,

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Speaker 2: Like the average tax refund's like thirty one hundred bucks,

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Speaker 2: and it's like a little launch pad for yeah, for

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Speaker 2: saving up that E fund, per paying off a big

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Speaker 2: debt that you've got that you are working towards getting

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Speaker 2: rid of. And so yeah, I get the interest free

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Speaker 2: loan thing, but I also think that if this is

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Speaker 2: the best way for you to disallow yourself from you know,

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Speaker 2: just frittering money away getting that big tax refund. If

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Speaker 2: it is like this chance to do something big and great,

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Speaker 2: if you use that as an opportunity to do something epic,

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Speaker 2: to kind of supercharge where you're going with your money,

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Speaker 2: I think that's fine too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I thought what you're going to complain about

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Speaker 3: was the fact that you're only talking if you're talking

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Speaker 3: about a tax return of three thousand dollars well earning

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Speaker 3: four percent, you're only talking about one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 3: bucks in interest. So from a financial standpoint, yes, it's

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Speaker 3: not optimized. And I'm not saying that one twenty is

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Speaker 3: nothing that could pay for your annual membership on your

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Speaker 3: AMEX catch Preferred that you discovered. But it's also not

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Speaker 3: the end of the world to miss out on that

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Speaker 3: as well. But Joe, we got more to get to

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Speaker 3: during our Friday Flight today, our roundup of the headlines

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Speaker 3: and how they impact your personal finances. We'll get to

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Speaker 3: electric vehicles and more.

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Speaker 1: Right after this, we're back with.

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Speaker 2: The Friday Flight Continue. Now it's time to get to

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Speaker 2: the ludicrous line of the week. This one comes from

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Speaker 2: Axios and the headline reads, why the rich love digital shoplifting.

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Speaker 3: Oh not digital shopping, digital shop lifting, stealing stuff.

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Speaker 1: You ever stole anything, Matt when you were like a

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Speaker 1: kid or anything. Yeah, I got in trouble. Okay.

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Speaker 2: I remember like those stands in the middle of the mall.

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Speaker 2: I stole something from there one time. About you, I

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Speaker 2: feel really bad about it. Still, like a necklace like

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Speaker 2: with like a shark tooth on it or something like that.

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Speaker 3: Oh so you were older? Is that this sounds like

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Speaker 3: middle school jowl?

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Speaker 1: It was. I was probably like eleven.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember when I was younger. So the things

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Speaker 3: like going to a hardware store, like there's like little nuts,

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Speaker 3: you know, like bolts and nuts, not like peanuts or cashews,

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Speaker 3: like random pieces of metal and debris on the ground.

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Speaker 3: And I used to always pick those up. But I

438
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 3: always saw those as like like floor fines, you know,

439
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 3: like because it's like they sweep them up and throw

440
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 3: them in the track, and I guess if it's like

441
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,879
Speaker 3: big enough, they're like, oh well, this one's worth a

442
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 3: little bit more. But yeah, you know, what's the statute

443
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 3: of limitations on? I don't know your thievery.

444
00:19:58,320 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 1: You think they're gonna come out. You're the one that

445
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: got the especially that's true, the shark necklace.

446
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 3: Or whatever that maybe it was like the puka shells

447
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 3: whatever that we used to wear. I was going to

448
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 3: try to say that, but I could remember the word shell.

449
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 3: I feel bad, but I still do. Okay, So let's

450
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 3: talk about the story, Matt. Uh, because for real, shoplifting

451
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 3: used to be going into a physical store, literally nabbing

452
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,120
Speaker 3: something off the shelf and trying to get out without

453
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 3: being noticed and depending on how big it was sticking

454
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 3: in your jacket or whatever. Literally, my high school principal

455
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 3: got arrested for what stealing I thought. I want to

456
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 3: say it was a rotisserie chicken from uh yeah, from

457
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 3: a grocery store.

458
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: Is this while you were in high school? It was

459
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: after posts post high school. But things went downhill after

460
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: you left. They did, they did.

461
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 3: They needed you around to uphold the honesty and morality

462
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 3: of the high school.

463
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 2: I think we've already established my shortcomings to here, Matt.

464
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 2: But Uh, the theft has become a bigger problem in

465
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 2: recent years for retailers, and it harms our bottom line.

466
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,719
Speaker 2: Some retailers in certain cities have literally shut down because

467
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 2: of theft problems, and Matty, think about the drug stores,

468
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 2: Walgreens and CBS and everything is essentially being put behind

469
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 2: lock and key because of crime problem.

470
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 3: They're shutting down so many stores because theft, because what's

471
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 3: it called shrinkage is such a problem. I hope folks

472
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,360
Speaker 3: doesn't hear us making light of this, like this is a.

473
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 2: Serious I'll send a nice word for something that's like

474
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 2: a terrible problem, like just literally people stealing. But folks

475
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 2: have found that it's more possible to steal from online retailers,

476
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: and they're taking advantage of that ability. Basically, they're claiming

477
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 2: that the package was stolen, never got delivered, and they're

478
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 2: hoping that the company will give them a refund, or

479
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 2: if that doesn't work out, the file a chargeback with

480
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 2: their credit card company for a legitimate purchase that they

481
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 2: made a product that they got to keep. The goods

482
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 2: were actually delivered. Yeah, but they're saying telling the credit

483
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 2: card company that it wasn't, so they're lying. They're hoping

484
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: to get their money back for something that they actually

485
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 2: wanted to purchase. That's obviously unethical and it's yeah, rich

486
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,679
Speaker 2: folks too. I think they said what folks making one

487
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: hundred k plus that was they're twice as likely to

488
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 2: take this route.

489
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 3: And I'll push back a little bit on that because

490
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 3: I think to advocate for the rich folks who are

491
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 3: making more than one hundred k, Like when you make more,

492
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,479
Speaker 3: you tend to order more online, and I think that

493
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 3: has a lot to do with it as well. There's

494
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,479
Speaker 3: a higher frequency of online ordering, online purchasing. It's not

495
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 3: like I dove into their data collection procedures, but I

496
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 3: think there's got to be something there too, like when

497
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: you are making you know, if you're just getting by,

498
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 3: you're not making a whole lot of online orders, you're

499
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 3: not paying for prime shipping, You're going in person to

500
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 3: where it's the most affordable.

501
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: Like to Ald.

502
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: Do you think there's something about the impersonal nature of

503
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 2: online shopping that makes people feel like a little more.

504
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 3: Not having to look someone in the face. Yeah, I

505
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 3: think that. I think that probably makes a lot of

506
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 3: folks feel like it's less of a crime. But I

507
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 3: would disagree, you know, like you might be able to

508
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: get away with doing that, but that doesn't necessarily that

509
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 3: does not make it right. And actually in the articles,

510
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: some folks even categorize their theft as what they call

511
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 3: consumer advocacy.

512
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: Which is pretty ridiculous.

513
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 3: I think you'd have to believe that, like all businesses

514
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 3: are evil in order to take that stance. I think

515
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 3: they're thinking, Oh, it's like a faceless crime, you know,

516
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 3: like I'm not taking from the small business that i'd

517
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 3: like to frequent in my local community. This is this

518
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 3: is from bezos and they include this in their shrinkage numbers.

519
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not. This is totally theft.

520
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 3: It's unethical, and I think a lot of it probably, dude,

521
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 3: I think it also has to do with laziness. I

522
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 3: think there are a lot of folks and they are

523
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: doing the easy thing by ordering online. They get the thing,

524
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 3: they don't totally love it, and they kind of want

525
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 3: to send it back.

526
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: They don't want to have to.

527
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 3: Pay for it, and so they say, oh, you know

528
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 3: that thing you sent me, I didn't really like it,

529
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 3: but it never showed up, and hoping to get it

530
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 3: for free, essentially because they don't want to have to

531
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 3: package it back up and say drop it off at

532
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 3: the Whole Foods or to get to the UPS store. Ugh,

533
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 3: that's so not online shopping and waste time to go

534
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 3: in person. And so I think so much of it

535
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 3: comes down to laziness as well. You're probably right, Matt.

536
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: Many Americans have a pessimistic view of how their savings

537
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 3: are performing right now. There's a survey from wallet hub

538
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 3: that found that sixty five percent of Americans said they

539
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 3: did not think that their savings was out pacing inflation. Basically, Hey,

540
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 3: my savings sucks and inflation is rocking me, and I

541
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 3: feel like I'm falling further and further behind. I think

542
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 3: this is a couple of things. One, it might be

543
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 3: a bit of an emotional response. Right well, you might

544
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 3: feel like, well, I'm certainly not outpacing the price increase

545
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 3: of eggs at the grocery store, which you're not, baby,

546
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 3: and flu has driven egg price.

547
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 2: So I was talking to somebody the other day, Matt.

548
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: They were trying to buy the fancy eggs, a dozen,

549
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: a dozen eggs of whatever, the premium fancy eggs or

550
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: guess how much he told me they cost.

551
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 3: It's a banana, Michael, what's the cost?

552
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 2: Seventeen dollars? What I was like, where are you buying

553
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 2: your eggs? This was in California specifically, but I was

554
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 2: shocked to think that. I was like, these protect your

555
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: eggs like you protect your gold bars. I guess that's

556
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: insane to pay that much for eggs, but yes, eggs

557
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: have gotten more expensive, so I get maybe that kind

558
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: of emotional response, But I think the other reality is

559
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 2: that this is accurate for a whole bunch of people,

560
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: but it doesn't have to be. So if you look

561
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: at the actual rate of inflation, what banks are paying,

562
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: our favorite banks are paying is above and beyond the

563
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: rate of inflation, so you actually are outpacing inflation with

564
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 2: savings if you're with one of our favorite online banks.

565
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 2: Inflation does not have to kick your butt if you

566
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: don't want it to. So like your returns, they're not

567
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: going to be astronomical. That's not the goal of savings.

568
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: But your money isn't going to be subject to the

569
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: ever eroding reality of inflation either. So it's interesting that

570
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 2: that two thirds of people think that inflation's kicking their butt.

571
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: The truth is, for most of them, it doesn't have to.

572
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: It's more of an emotional response the fact that you

573
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 3: do see those higher price tags when you do go

574
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 3: to their grocery store, so it feels like it's eating

575
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 3: into your savings and how much you're spending every single

576
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 3: month and honestly, higher interest rates. They have been great

577
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 3: for savers over the past few years, but it has

578
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 3: been bad for folks with floating rate debt. Let's talk

579
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 3: about helocks here, because you know they look great a

580
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 3: few years ago. Well, they've created a stressful financial burden.

581
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: It's almost it's like a time bomb that folks are

582
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 3: now experiencing. When people took it out with a three

583
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 3: and a half percent rate and now it's eight percent,

584
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 3: much higher, like, oh, this sucks anyone with credit card debt,

585
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: and the problem has only gotten.

586
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: Worse as well.

587
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 3: Roughly half of folks have recurring credit card debt, and

588
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 3: a record one and ten are out there only paying

589
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 3: the minimum balance.

590
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: Figures from nerd.

591
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 3: Wallet show that with average credit card balances at ten thousand,

592
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 3: five hundred and sixty three dollars, it would take twenty

593
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 3: two years and it would cost you eighteen thousand dollars

594
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 3: in interest when just paying the minimum, which is incredibly sobering. Basically,

595
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: if you don't want to be in credit card debt

596
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 3: for the rest of your life, you have got to

597
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: come up with a plan and stick to it. If

598
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 3: you are only paying the minimum if you're carrying a balance,

599
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 3: you are doing credit cards wrong. And I will say

600
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 3: something that stood out to me. I was looking at

601
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 3: the chart of the revolving the revolving balance that Americans

602
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: are holding per quarter, and it's in start contrast to

603
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: where it was like four years ago or so. And

604
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: so if you only look at that period of time,

605
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 3: you think, oh my gosh, what is going on here

606
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 3: in America? But if you look at the chart more carefully,

607
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 3: if you zoom out a little bit, a little bit

608
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 3: of a silver lining, I guess is what this is

609
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 3: going to be right here, the little silver lining news

610
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 3: part of the credit card debt that's out there, it's

611
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: we're actually on track to where things were going pre pan.

612
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: Right. So if you look back, and let's.

613
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 3: Be honest, the statusquo back then wasn't great. It wasn't

614
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 3: great either, but I guess it's not. It has accelerated

615
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 3: incredibly fast over the past three to four years. But

616
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 3: if you zoom out even further and you look at

617
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 3: where things were in twenty nineteen, and if you were

618
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: to say to somebody, hey, where do you think revolving

619
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 3: balances are going to be in twenty twenty five, they'd

620
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: be like, yep, around six hundred billion, and that's where

621
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 3: we are now.

622
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: It's just if you erased all the data that we.

623
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 3: Have between twenty nineteen and today, you honestly wouldn't see

624
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 3: much difference in the average balance. But like you said,

625
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 3: it feel less stark. Yes, it feels it kind of

626
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 3: feels like a hair on fire kind of moment right now,

627
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: But I do. I honestly think things are going to

628
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 3: level out. But just kind of getting back on that,

629
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 3: just to think typical American track.

630
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 2: Ten percent of people and granted what there was a

631
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 2: I think it was the Card Act many many years

632
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 2: ago that required credit card companies to essentially put in

633
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 2: black and white on your statement how long it would

634
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: take you to pay off your debt if you were

635
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: to just pay the minimum payment. So it shouldn't come

636
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: as a surprise to anybody who has a credit card

637
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: and actually looks at their statement just how long it's

638
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: going to take and how how much of an uphill

639
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 2: battle it's going to be if you if you continue

640
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: to pay just the minimums. It is one of the

641
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: worst things you can do for your finances is to

642
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: have credit card debt and to just pay the minimum

643
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 2: every single month. But I would hope that once you

644
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 2: kind of hear that you're going to be in debt

645
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: for multiple decades, that you will take, you know, significant

646
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: action to try to pay off that debt more quickly,

647
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: whether it's like bare bones budget, whether it is going

648
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: to undebt dot it, and whether maybe money management International

649
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 2: is where you need to turn if you're up to

650
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: your eyeballs and you don't feel like you can get

651
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: out on your own. I feel like that would be

652
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: a piece of data that would be helpful for folks.

653
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: Just like when you sign a thirty year mortgage, they

654
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: tell you, Okay, this is the total interest amount that

655
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 2: you're gonna pay over the course of the loan, and

656
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: it's just this like jaw dropping staggering number. But like

657
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: in that case, this is for an asset that's going

658
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 2: to appreciate.

659
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: The exact opposite is the.

660
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 3: Case when it comes to a credit card thirty years

661
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 3: to pay that much an interest to indeed.

662
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: Okay.

663
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: So last week, the future of evs begin to look

664
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: at more uncertain Joel President Trump, he froze funding that

665
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 3: was allocated for charging infrastructure via a new executive order.

666
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 3: I don't know if you heard there's an executive order,

667
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 3: an e O or two that was signed. Yeah, I

668
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 3: think he ran out of the sharpie stride out, Matt.

669
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 3: I will say, this is not a shock, And to

670
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 3: be fair, a lot of money had been allocated to

671
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: boosting the charging infrastructure.

672
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: With very little to show for it.

673
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 3: So little, in fact, that the average cost of the

674
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 3: new EV's at the federal government was able.

675
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: To charge stations.

676
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah what I say, new EV's not actually EV's actual

677
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: charging stations. Yeah, so seven point five billion dollars was

678
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: how much cash was set aside? And how many charges

679
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: did we make? Seven eight, eight? Okay, eight chargers? You

680
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 3: know here on the show, when we talk about going

681
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: to the grocery store, we like to break it down

682
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 3: to the cost per units. All right, this is an

683
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 3: easy one, folks, One billion dollars per charging station. Come on,

684
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 3: this is insane. So how this actual executive order shakes

685
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: out in reality is going to be hard to decipher.

686
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 3: But that EO specifically outlines the administration's desire to not

687
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: give electric vehicles a leg up with federal subsidies. And

688
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 3: that means that, you know, if Trump has his brothers

689
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: the federal tax credit for buying an EV. It may

690
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 3: not be long for this world. This won't necessarily crush

691
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 3: EV sales, I think, but it will slow them. And

692
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 3: it's definitely going to force EV manufacturers to figure out

693
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: the economics essentially of producing evs that actually turn a profit,

694
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: as opposed accounting on the government to sort of underwrite

695
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 3: this new industry. Yeah, I think some predictions of so

696
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 3: new industry, I guess at this point. Yeah, EV sales

697
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 3: would drop roughly twenty percent if the federal EV tax

698
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,959
Speaker 3: credit went away. But when you when you look at

699
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 3: some of the EV specific companies, many of them lose

700
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 3: money with every EV they sell, even with the federal

701
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: tax credit currently in existence.

702
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: So if that's gone, I.

703
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: Mean, it feels like what it. Tesla seems like they're

704
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: the only electric vehicle manufacturer that makes a profit when

705
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: they sell electric vehicles. I still love evs, and I

706
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: do think the future, Yeah, it's just that they're going

707
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: to the future is coming more solely now.

708
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 3: And they're I think, well or efficient EV manufacturing. It

709
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 3: might be actually coming faster. It just depends, I mean,

710
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: it just depends on how you're looking at it.

711
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: Right, Well, we typically frowned on the idea of leasing

712
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 2: a car, but there are occasional exceptions to that rule.

713
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: And that's especially true right now in the electric vehicle

714
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: space because cheap EV leases abound. At least for the

715
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: time being. We'll see how the you know, federal tax

716
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: credit that could impact this, but this means that leasing

717
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: an EV can actually make financial sense at least, you know,

718
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: in this case, because of the way the tax credit

719
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: impacts the lease amount versus monthly payments. And so Volkswagen,

720
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: for instance, I saw this on their website. Mat they're

721
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: offering the ID four I want to say, for one

722
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: thousand dollars down and one hundred and forty nine dollars

723
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: a month in some markets.

724
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 3: You brought us up a couple of weeks ago, and

725
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: you're like kind of borderline even considering it.

726
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: I was totally thinking about it. Yeah, and this is

727
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: something that Emily and I talked about, and I'm like,

728
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: I don't know.

729
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: Maybe, but we just how long is that actur are

730
00:31:59,400 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: going to be?

731
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: Exactly do I sell the old Accura and just like

732
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: you know, roll with an EV for twenty four months?

733
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: The numbers actually make sense when you consider some of

734
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: the benefit that these dealerships are experiencing because of the

735
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 3: tax credit. Yeah, and it starts getting a lot more

736
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: financially palatable to consumers.

737
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: The other thing, too, is with you know, rapid progression

738
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: in EV technology, you're also not buying when I don't know,

739
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: maybe in a couple of years that that EV feels

740
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: pretty antiquated, kind of like when I bought my Niece

741
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: on Leaf and it was like, oh man, in like

742
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: just a few years time, it felt like a piece

743
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: of junk compared to everything else that had been put

744
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: out on.

745
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: There, Like I could barely drive the costco going back.

746
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: Now people are.

747
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: Telling use niece on leaves that have like forty miles

748
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: worth of range. It's like a glorified golf cart.

749
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: Wow.

750
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy. It's pretty pathetic. But I would just

751
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: encourage people to run the numbers. It's still worth maybe

752
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 2: considering leasing MeV, especially as this EV technology changes quickly,

753
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: But I don't know, holding onto your old ride might

754
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: still make the most sense. I think that's probably where

755
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: I'm gonna land, Matt.

756
00:32:58,360 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

757
00:32:58,520 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: Plus, I just don't don't want to go through like

758
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: all the hoops to get another card.

759
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: I like my super old, accurate. There's nothing wrong with

760
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: that man.

761
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So probably for most folks that makes sense, a

762
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: lot of sense, But for others they might want to

763
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 2: consider it.

764
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 3: I will say, so, we had the electricians at our

765
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: house this past week and I had them install a

766
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 3: two forty outlet in the garage. Preparing for the future.

767
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 3: Sounds like something to an EV owner would do. Ye

768
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 3: specifically for Kate for her electric kiln. But also one

769
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 3: of the reasons we made sure to stick in the

770
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: garage is for the ability to future proof our ability

771
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 3: to perhaps.

772
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: Charge an EV in the future. You never know.

773
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: But while we love EV's, that being said, you might

774
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: want to stick with your old gas powered car. And

775
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 3: this is for a few reasons. One because it's cheaper

776
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 3: even with the potential gas savings factored in having a

777
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 3: car that you already own, something that has already depreciated.

778
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 3: But on top of that, newer cars, especially I would

779
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: say newer evs, they're doing more snooping, similar to like

780
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 3: your favorite search engine, your car, it knows a lot

781
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: about you. There is a CNN article in they detail

782
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 3: just how much information and modern cars that they can.

783
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: Pull about your habits.

784
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 3: It's pretty scary, and we talked about how some car

785
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 3: makers have not just been collecting that data but also

786
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 3: selling it. It's even to insurance companies. Buried there in

787
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 3: the fine print the car Wired. They just had a

788
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: story about how a Subaru security flaw, how it allowed

789
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 3: hackers to remotely unlock and start your vehicle. They could

790
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 3: also see your last twelve months of location history, and

791
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure the dealership still can see where it is.

792
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: That you've traveled to.

793
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 3: So it's just another reason to Joel be happy with

794
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 3: your twenty thirteen Honda Odyssey and your oh what is

795
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 3: it five Accura Mdx's nothing wrong with that, man. Yeah,

796
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 3: if you got an updoor getting snooped on old Hana Civic,

797
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: whatever it is that you're driving, maybe that sort of

798
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 3: privacy desire for privacy desire at least not to have

799
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 3: these be able to think about that. How connected some

800
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,919
Speaker 3: of these vehicles are. Matt always connect and it's cool

801
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 3: in one way the Tesla can send updates over the Internet,

802
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 3: But then the flip side of that is, if there

803
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: is a the security flaw, hackers can break in and

804
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 3: who knows, Like, I don't know, man, it is the

805
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 3: future of fully connected automobiles all the time. It is

806
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 3: a little worrisome, at least from my personal there's.

807
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: A trade off.

808
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 3: I think there's a trade off, right because like if

809
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 3: you are driving a Rivian or a Tesla, like you're

810
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 3: receiving this technological benefits of also your car knowing exactly

811
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 3: where you are, right. But I think the thing that

812
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 3: gets me the most are the kind of fancier gas

813
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 3: powered cars where like there isn't much additional benefit that

814
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: you're receiving. It's sort of like there's not like, let's

815
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 3: be honest, there's is Was there some sort of revolution

816
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 3: between like a twenty twelve Ton Odyssey versus like the

817
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 3: newest Ton Odyssey.

818
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 1: Not really, But there's a whole.

819
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 3: Lot more spying going on, And to me, that's where

820
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 3: the biggest breakdown takes place where you're not receiving any benefit.

821
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 3: Because like there's benefits of being to having cookies that

822
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,959
Speaker 3: are tracking your movement on the internet, right, It's like, oh, okay,

823
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 3: now you can serve me up an ad of something

824
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 3: I already actually was interested in. Sweet, But when it

825
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 3: feels like there's no upside, that bothers me even more.

826
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: That's disappointing. All right, that's going to do it.

827
00:35:59,640 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: Though.

828
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: For this episode, Matt, we'll link to some of the

829
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: stories we mentioned in the show notes up on our

830
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: website at howtomoney dot com, as well as some of

831
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: the resources we've talked about in this episode. All right, man,

832
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 2: until next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,