WEBVTT - Brett Who? 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:04.200 Wisecrak is released weekly and brought to you absolutely free, 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.040 but if you want to hear the whole season right now, 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:11.160 it's available ad free on Tenderfoot Plus. For more information, 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:16.200 check out the show notes enjoy the episode. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.280 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.239 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.400 and do not represent those of iHeartRadio, Tenderfoot TV, or 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.400 their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.000 not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:44.000 Previously on wiscrack, you had Jody catching you up digging 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.559 around in the UK. But look, I figured, since I 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.320 lived through it all, I'd be better to chime in 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.600 with what really happened that night, right, Jody met my 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.840 two glorious brothers, Sam who insists but it couldn't be 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.520 a killer, which is a choice, and Jack, who we 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:01.880 kind of forgot to tell about any of it. 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:03.680 Oops. Sorry. 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.360 Then came the trial, where it was silent for most 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:12.920 of it until one sharp, unsettling outburst. He was found guilty, rightfully, 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.280 but here's what still shakes me. While he was serving 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.560 his sentence, two ultra religious soul mates claimed he was 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:21.920 possessed and they decided. 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.039 To cleanse him. They killed him. 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.200 They said it was an exorcism that they were told 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:27.880 to do by God. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:30.720 Anyway, where did we leave off? A? 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.440 Jody is off to the happiest place on Earth, not Disneyland, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:35.760 stands in Mountfitchet. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:37.360 God speed Jody. 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.760 For the first time in ten years, I am podcast free, 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:50.280 which feels horrible. I'm desperately looking for another podcast. 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:51.000 Really, Oh my God. 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:55.760 While I was in London, I made some calls to 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.920 Ed's old friends, the ones who knew him best around 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.680 the time of the murders. One name I found on 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.720 the flyer they handed me at Ed's Edinburgh show was 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.760 the director of his comedy set, Sophie Hagen. 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.080 I actually remember exactly when I met it, because I 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.400 was blown away by how funny he was. It was 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:20.240 at uh pup called the Queen's Head in Camden in London. 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:25.360 Ed was sitting there all chubby he used to be 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.040 really fat, which he was so funny about it. And 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.280 he was sitting in the corner jumping up and down 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.919 like a little child, saying, guys, guys, can you believe 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:35.440 they're gonna let us do comedy? 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.280 Sophie is a force in her own right, a veteran 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.360 of stand up specials and podcasts, and in fact, the 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.200 year before Ed premiered his show, Sophie won Best Newcomer 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.200 at the Edinburgh Fringe. I was hoping to get a 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.600 glimpse into Ed's mental state only months after the murders. 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.680 What I got was something else entirely. 0:02:57.880 --> 0:02:57.960 So. 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.320 The way I remember it was he called me one 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.600 night and told me the story of what had happened, and, 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:12.040 being this sort of cynical person that I am probably was, 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.040 I was like, Ed, this is a show. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:16.440 Would you do this on stage? 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.600 And I remember him sounding surprised, being like, really, you 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.120 think I should? He then said, well, would you want 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.720 to help out with it? And I was like, ye oh, yeah, definitely, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:33.280 And I told him that I had a few rules. 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:35.440 I had a few sort of I can only work 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:39.400 on this if you're truthful about it, if you work 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:41.920 hard and you tell the truth, then I'm. 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.240 Absolutely on board. 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.160 I would love to help. So it all came crashing 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.120 down around the same time. He tells a story in 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:53.840 the show about how, by accident, his email and number 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.960 was printed on the front page of his local paper. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.440 And I said to him the whole time work on 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.880 the show, I'd said, oh, we have to see this, 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:04.800 like this is a like we need to post it 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.360 on Instagram or to show it in the show, like 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.240 we need to see this because this is so funny. 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.280 And he kept saying, yeah, yeah, I will, we have 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.200 it at home. And every time I asked, you'd say, 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.479 oh yeah, yeah, my brother's sending it or whatever. So 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.160 around the time when I started doubting him in general 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.919 and realized he told a lot of lies, I pressed 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.800 him on it and I was like, ed, can I 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.400 see that newspaper now, please? And he's got really defensive 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.279 and was like, oh, you don't trust me. And I 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.800 was like, ah, that sounds like what liars do when 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:42.600 they're caught out in a lie. And it actually took 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.520 it took some time, maybe like days, before I thought, 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.160 if he's willing to lie about all these other big things, 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.640 could he lie about this? And I started googling it 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:59.200 frantically to find any evidence of this having happened. And 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:03.880 I believe I did find articles about having happened, but 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.600 I don't think if I remember correctly, I didn't find 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:09.159 anything that backed up his side. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:09.680 Of the story. 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:15.719 I don't remember any mentioning of the neighbor of Brett 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.440 trying to break into another house. There was no mention 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.599 of Ed anywhere. Then, when I pressed him on at 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:25.360 a tiny bit and said Ed, how much of this 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:31.560 is true? He again became incredibly angry and like defensive 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:33.680 and started blaming me for all sorts of things. And 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.160 I'm just thinking, Okay, do you know what. I now 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.320 don't know how much is true at all about him, 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:45.919 his life, anything, So I doubt that this story is 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:49.000 true and I don't know, And at that point I 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:53.560 didn't care. And then I basically haven't really spoken to him. 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:57.840 I've seen him since, so I think as soon as 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.640 I realized that he told not just one, but multiple lies, 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:09.279 I stopped because the person I loved and the person 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:14.360 I had this very close relationship with, I didn't know 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.400 how much of that was an actual person and how 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.279 much of that was just lies. 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.720 Sophie's claims changed the way I saw everything. In all 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:26.960 my years of working in true crime, I knew to 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:31.880 document the cleanest timeline possible, layering eyewitness accounts and police 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.320 reports to build a tight play by play of exactly 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.440 what happened, which I had done thoroughly. The problem was 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.880 the subject of my story wasn't at the crime scene. 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:47.200 He was three doors down asleep. He's never been contacted 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.440 by the police to give a statement, much less sworn 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:54.040 under oath to anything he witnessed. Had I convinced myself 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.359 of a story that wasn't true, had I made the 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.360 fatal mistake of trying to fit Ed's comedy into the cold, 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:05.000 hard facts instead of the other way around. What if 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.400 there was a world in which Brett Rogers committed the 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:11.680 murders but never came to Ed's house, never banged on 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.120 the door. It would mean Ed was only adjacent to 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.480 the crime, feet from it, but he never once crossed 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.080 Brett's mind that night. And it would also mean that 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.240 Ed has shoehorned himself into a crime that has nothing 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.720 to do with him for the worst possible reason. Fame. 0:07:39.560 --> 0:08:02.240 I'm Jonie Tovey and this is Wisecrack, episode four. Brett, 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:14.000 who as Ed, picks me up outside of my Airbnb. 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.440 The only thing I wanted to do was meet his parents. 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.560 They could quickly corroborate his story and get these thoughts 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.760 out of my head. But Ed was in no hurry 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.560 to get to his house. He decided I needed a 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:35.840 tour of the village first, so I decided to play 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.120 a cool go with the flow. If there was anything 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.280 to Sophie's claims, they'd soon be a parent, and I 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:43.800 didn't want to rattle Ed either. 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.520 Sorry, this is the entrance and it's going to take 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.000 about ten minutes to drive through the entire thing. 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:56.640 Amazing. This looks like a storybook like. These homes right 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.520 here are just gorgeous. They all kind of have like 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.600 that gingerbread look, and then the Tudor style with the 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:08.240 bricks are very pretty. That is literally a straw roof 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:09.160 that we just passed. 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.840 I had pictured Stansted as a quiet, pastoral town, and 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.760 on the surface it is. But when it's just me 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.800 and Ed, he doesn't hold back to him. Stansted is 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.679 frozen in time, filled with men grinding away at mundane 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.600 jobs and their wives who sneer at the wealth in London. 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:31.800 I haven't seen a person, I'll be honest with you. 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.080 No, we don't have many of them. Do you like pigeons? 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:38.120 They are quite noisy? 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.800 This is quite It always reminds me of Private Drive 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.199 from Harry Potter. It's just like perfect tractors, doesn't it. 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.000 Stansted might have spent the rest of eternity as a 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.640 sleepy little village, but in the nineteen sixties a local 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:57.360 military airfield was converted into an international airport serving London. Now, 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:02.559 on any given day that airport sees approximately eighty thousand passengers. 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.120 Airline crews from India and Africa fill the local pubs 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.480 for a quick pint between flights. But the actual village 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.000 has an older, working class population of just around eight 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:13.920 thousand people. 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.439 So now we're going into Lowest Street. I think there's 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.760 about six businesses down here. Three of them are pubs. 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:25.960 We laugh at them. A village four. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.000 I'm not laughing, I mean I am laughing. I am laughing. 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.840 Of the six businesses, three of them are pubs. Oh, 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:33.560 here's a person. 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.559 Well that's Tony. That's a carpenter. What do you saw 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:36.719 it for? 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.120 That really is Tony Y. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:42.840 So what this kid's doing now? 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.200 I did my entire life just on a bike with 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.719 a backpack on riding somewhere and that's all we did 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:48.520 was welcome. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.960 As we drive through its narrow streets, watching him retrace 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.840 old paths and point out forgotten landmarks. I send something 0:10:54.920 --> 0:11:00.200 buried beneath the cynicism, something more than just a dark nostalgia. 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:01.480 That's a tennis club. 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:03.719 I'm not allowed back in there anymore because me or 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.240 friends accidentally nearly set on fire. 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.440 We'll come back to that, we will. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:13.200 Yeah, he's on edge too, taking easy jabs, checking the time, 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:17.559 scanning his surroundings, but with absolutely no chance of running 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.320 into Brett. I can't figure out what has him so anxious. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.679 I even wonder if he knows I've talked to Sophie 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:25.199 and you. 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:26.360 See that place called the Mayflower. 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.360 Huh that is the least authentic Chinese er ever going 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.160 to do. The guy that owns his name is Kevin. 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:37.199 Get the fuck out, and you've just left anced we just. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:42.440 Yeah, okay, so we're out. I'm not kidding. So that 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.640 was maybe a two minute drive that we just drove 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.080 through the entire town. Yeah, maybe two minutes. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.400 It's why I was so keen to leave, because that 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.680 two minute drive is a five minute walk, and you 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.400 know everyone like I know everything. 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.960 And then it hits me. Ed's feeling vulnerable, exposed. We're 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.880 about to relive the worst night of his life, but 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:12.320 this time we aren't using Ed's script, and all the 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:18.480 characters in Ed's world can speak for themselves. 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:29.280 So your house is that way. 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.880 We turn off Cambridge Street and into a labyrinth of 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.320 dark brick townhouses attached together in twos and threes. From 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.240 sheer muscle memory, Ed weaves us through the maze and 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:49.080 up to a small cluster of homes before I meet 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.320 Ed's parents. There's one house he wants me to see first. 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.280 All right, so we're walking right outside of Frett's house. 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.280 Yeah, that's the bedroom window. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.760 Oh my god, you are right next door to I mean, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:07.080 not adjacent, perfectly adjacent, but what like the Rogers home, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.680 a modest two story townhouse, the kind you'd pass without 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.480 a second glance, And just a few feet away sits 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.680 the Hedge's house. Standing in the home shadow where so 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.080 much blood was shed, I could sense a lingering chill 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.280 in the air. His voice deepens into a whisper. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.760 Thirty seconds a second walk, that's the distance between us. 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:29.880 Ty. 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.200 This bench that we're standing next to right now was 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.439 actually closer to your house, closer to. 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.000 My house, and also under a street light. 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.080 And that's where they found Brett. 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:46.640 Yeah, but just over our shoulders is a completely different vibe. 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.559 We walked just a few steps into a blooming garden, 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.800 through a weather doorstep and into Ed's childhood home. 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.680 Number forty. 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:07.079 We go, Hello, Mom, this is Jodie. Come say hello. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.280 Hi, very nice to meet How you can I give 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:11.760 you a book? 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.760 How's it going? Yes? Could you meet you? Hello? Yes? 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.760 We're greeted by Ed's mother, Carol, light brown hair, glasses 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.200 and a warmth that hits instantly. She's the picture of 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:28.800 a British mom in every sense. 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:30.320 I know you. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:32.640 They you've been eliminated completely. 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:37.040 I just want to point out it's. 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.240 Cool because there are photos of Salm and Jack around here. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.400 And then yeah, I took him down. 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.640 As I'm shown around, I notice Ed and his mom 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.560 speaking glances and smirks, like whole conversations pass without a 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.640 word habit. I imagine shaped in a house where his 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:59.240 father's temper could erupt without warning. And truthfully, he was 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.280 the one I was mo nervous to meet John the 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.240 here's the chair. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.040 This is father, father John. This is Jody. 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.200 Hi, nice to meet you. 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.480 At seventy years old, John is a hulking man with 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.120 broad shoulders and eight fingers just as legend would have it. However, 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.120 Ed tells me his father is not the gruff man 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.800 portrayed in his set anymore. Age and grandchildren will do 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:28.640 that to a person. 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:30.040 I do love the kitchen. 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.560 We all sit Ed, John, Carol and me, and after 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.640 a few lighthearted stories about Ed's childhood mischief, I cut 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.080 to the chase. I ask about that night. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.240 I came home at hop our six and I'm usually 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.360 the first one hand, and it had been rough day 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.520 at work and night was hot, and I just thought 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.640 I can't pipoffered, and then when he came in, just 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.880 as he got through the door said do you fancy 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.480 fish and chips tonight? I don't feel like cooking? And 0:15:58.520 --> 0:15:59.080 you went over. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.280 John often goes over to pick up dinner from one 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.560 of their favorite restaurants, Churchill's, a three minute walk from 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:06.040 their house. 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.880 And when you came back, he said, oh, I just 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.800 saw Jill over there, and she was really weird. 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.160 As a reminder, Jill or Jillian is Bred's mother. 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.280 She came in but she didn't order anything. You said, agitated, yeah, 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.880 and then she left. And then when you come back 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.520 here to me, you said that you passed Brett and 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:37.640 Brett looked weird, right, But you said she But you 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:39.520 did say she was drunk, didn't you. 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.360 Oh, yeah, she'd had some drink. Yeah, she was definitely 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:43.080 under the influence. 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.000 And that's why he said it, because it was sort 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.280 of like tea time, and. 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.240 Then you guys came back, had your dinner, and then 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:50.360 what happened after dinner. 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.960 It was just like a normal night. We watched TV, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:17:02.080 and we went up to bed, let himself in because 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.920 we were in bed, and then the dogs all started barking. 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.840 I looked out the window and there was a policeman. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.520 A policeman. This is the first I've heard of the 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.760 police in the front garden, long before any knocking. Which 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:19.920 window were you looking out of? 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.879 Was my bedroom window directly above him? Well, at that 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.280 point I went that way, so I have to have 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:26.160 the window open. 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.480 Wasn't in the front garden at that point. 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.000 Well, there was someone in the somebody in the in 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:32.560 the front garden running about. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.119 Because theater banged on the door, went into the garden 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:36.800 and tried to get that way. 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:38.000 I don't think that was a policement. 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.240 I took over for the front because I did get up, 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.600 but I slept through most of it because I went 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:45.680 back to sleep straight away and I got out here 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:46.880 and was looking out. 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:48.920 Yeah, but that was because you thought someone was trying 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:49.240 to wait. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.560 I thought someone was trying to occur. And also the 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.960 side gate here, when that opens and swings back and 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.880 hits the house, you're going to go bunk because it's 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.359 right there sort of brick. And heard that, and I thought, 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:03.240 what's happening? 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:08.240 So you heard the gate slam over here? And then 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:09.600 where did that person go? 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:11.800 I didn't see anyone. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:13.080 Oh I did. 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.399 I have heard the gate gone, but already had the 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.200 banging at the door. They said there was a police, 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.560 he's a helicopter up there, there's policemen on the green 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.200 and whatnot. I said, well, don't worry then, because we're 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:24.320 surrounded by the police. 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:25.520 So we're perfectly. 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.320 Say rewind to the banging. So we watched TV. We 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:34.080 go to bed, and then when did the banging happen? 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.199 Is there a rough time or who woke up first? 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.240 I don't know what the time was because I didn't 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.440 look at the clock. I woke up first, and then 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:43.679 I came in to you, didn't I. 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.800 So what we've just said and what we're saying, now 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:52.040 are two different things completely. Well, you just said you 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.280 woke up, looked out the window, and back to bed, 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:54.840 and now you. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.639 Do no, no, no. I went back to you in 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:58.760 the bedroom. 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:05.040 So as I remember it. Yeah, the banging happened, you 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.359 heard it outside your window. Yeah, it was on the 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.880 front garden and someone who you think was a police officer. 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.040 But that story don't check out at all. 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:15.960 Well, I don't know who it was. 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.879 It's subtle, but I noticed that Ed is leading his mom, 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:22.400 correcting her. 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:25.400 Whoever it was was trying to get an off front door, 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.480 went into our garden, knew the back gate, ran to 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.359 our garden and tried to get the back door. 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:32.800 It doesn't sound like police. Doesn't sound like a police 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.119 officer to me. He didn't do that. 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.760 And the banging, you think a police officer is going 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:38.760 to knock bang at that door that hot You don't 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.720 think police have got the manet the thing that can 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:42.640 get a back door open. 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:44.720 But we haven't done anything wrong. 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.359 That Bret might have tried to run. 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:52.600 You're not on the stand. 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.200 I just want you to know that you're not in trouble. 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:01.160 Carol is flustered. Now her recollection is being versively challenged. 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.520 I remind her this isn't an interrogation. I'm just trying 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:09.280 to understand. Wanting a clearer picture, I switched tactics, ED, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:10.359 why don't you tell the story? 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.159 And then John and Carol jump in. 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.360 When you remember, we'll pull it to paces. 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:16.360 Okay, yeah, yeah, challenge. 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:16.919 Me and whatever you need to. 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.359 Yeah, you get in from the gig. 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:21.880 I get in from the gig. I walk upstairs. This 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.920 is about eleven eleven thirty. I planned to come home 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.560 at about eight nine that night, so the front door 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.960 was left unlocked when they went to bed because they 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.040 were expecting me shortly afterwards. I walk upstairs and go 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.840 into my bed to go to sleep. While I was asleep, 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.240 from what I understand, there was noise in the front garden. 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.080 Someone was outside that were banging on the door. Then 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.280 you come to my room and that's when I wake up. 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.119 You're at the end of my bed. Well, I was 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.000 going to that wall and you're looking out the window, 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.360 and he said, whatever you do, don't tell the lights. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.960 That line is quite possibly the most memorable, most chilling 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.880 line straight from ed set and the way they said 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:04.520 it in Unison Eyes locked. It's eerie. Is it possible 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.760 she's quoting ed Set just to stick to his contrived story, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.200 or is this a shared moment of clarity in a 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.800 night of chaos, the one petrifying moment that seared in 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:15.840 both of their minds. 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.400 So I got out of bed, I got looking for Dad. 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.600 Dad was awake at this point, standing at the window, 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:25.080 and the banging was still happening at that point. 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:27.240 Yeah. I was looking at the wind drive for the grain. 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:27.640 Yeah. 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:28.000 Yeah. 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:30.359 So I started to go downstairs, and both of you 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.200 basically say don't do that. 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.080 At some stage because. 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:43.520 I remember being on the landing with you panicking. Yeah, 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:48.439 pre helicopters, post banging. That's when the gate hit. 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:53.399 The wall, right yeah, And then I heard they hear 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:53.800 the wall. 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:56.200 So we went downside gate. We didn't have the decking 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:58.639 at the time, into the garden. 0:21:58.760 --> 0:21:59.320 It was different. 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:03.239 They let me fresh memory a little bit, although you 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:05.399 so look different. He still have a gold handle. Yes, 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:07.399 he pulled the handle web being up. The handle was 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:12.520 pulled down. Obviously whoever was outside couldn't get in. And 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:13.240 then they left. 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:15.800 Could it be the end of us? 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:20.200 Could have been the end of us. John finally lets 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.400