Speaker 1: I remember going into at age twenty six, twenty seven,
Speaker 1: going into auditions for like Disney shows to play like
Speaker 1: fifteen year olds, and there were actually there were you know,
Speaker 1: the room was filled with kids and their parents, and
Speaker 1: you know, I was so like, I was so embarrassed
Speaker 1: that I would say, oh, you know, my dad dropped
Speaker 1: me off. You know, he's coming back to He's coming
Speaker 1: back to pick me up a little bit. Because it
Speaker 1: was just like, oh my god, it's me and all
Speaker 1: of these children, and like, I, you know, I'm a
Speaker 1: grown man. Hi, I'm Stephen Krueger. I am an actor,
Speaker 1: and I think I'm going to have a new best
Speaker 1: friend after today. Well, hello everybody, and welcome. Thank you
Speaker 1: for tuning in to this week's episode of Off the Beat.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. This week's guest, as
Speaker 1: you just heard, has a lot of buzz around him. Yellowjackets,
Speaker 1: very own. Stephen Krueger is joining me today. Get it buzz,
Speaker 1: yellowjackets like a bee. You get it, I get it.
Speaker 1: It's awesome Stephen. What can I say about Stephen? One,
Speaker 1: He's very cool. Two He's worked on a lot of
Speaker 1: huge shows like the Originals and Roswell, New Mexico, jumping
Speaker 1: into everything from vampires to sci fi. Steven has no fear, literally,
Speaker 1: and that cannot be more true than with his most
Speaker 1: recent show, Yellowjackets. If you haven't seen it, you should.
Speaker 1: It's that good. I really really enjoyed it. And wow,
Speaker 1: it could not have been easy to execute. There are
Speaker 1: time jumps. The cast filmed in freezing temperatures, and spoiler alert,
Speaker 1: Stephen literally got his leg chopped off. Maybe not literally,
Speaker 1: but that did happen on the show. We'll talk about
Speaker 1: that and much much more. I cannot wait for you
Speaker 1: to hear our conversation. It's a good one. Let's go
Speaker 1: right now, my south By Southwest buddy, Stephen Krueger, Bubble
Speaker 1: and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeak, Bubble and squeaker,
Speaker 1: cooking every moment left over from the nut before. What's up? Stephen?
Speaker 1: There he is the man, the middlegition. What's happening? Oh man,
Speaker 1: it's great to see your face. Well, it's good to
Speaker 1: see yours now before we get started, I may meet
Speaker 1: you in person. Are you going on a little trip
Speaker 1: this weekend? Oh? Are you gonna be in Austin? Oh? Well,
Speaker 1: maybe we'll see each other in person, my man, I
Speaker 1: think I mean new best friend. Hello. Hi, Well well
Speaker 1: well we'll have a chat today and then we'll have
Speaker 1: well maybe a longer chat this weekend. That sounds amazing.
Speaker 1: What are you doing down there? I'm actually coming to
Speaker 1: stock you. I don't know if that is. I mean
Speaker 1: I appreciate right off, because now I can plan a
Speaker 1: few things just to like keep you on your toes
Speaker 1: right off the bat. No, I am there in Austin
Speaker 1: with iHeart, uh talking about this podcast right here. We're
Speaker 1: gonna do a couple of of panels down there at
Speaker 1: south By Southwest. So an, it's amazing. Wow, I'm so
Speaker 1: happy you're gonna be there. This is just part one
Speaker 1: time of our time together this very week. Well, we
Speaker 1: better not blow it then in part one. Now, let's
Speaker 1: not blow up. Yeah yeah, although I can then still
Speaker 1: cancel the flight. Um, I don't think I'm kid, so
Speaker 1: I'm locked in there. You go, Well, actually I can't either,
Speaker 1: so I want to go back. I read you were
Speaker 1: born in Appleton Lake, city of Appleton, Wisconsin before moving
Speaker 1: down to Sarah Soda. Now does that make you a
Speaker 1: Green Bay Packer fan? You know, I think I switched allegiances,
Speaker 1: which is like kind of a cardinal sin. But I
Speaker 1: think I've done it. I think I switched allegiances pretty
Speaker 1: quickly when I when I got to Florida. I mean,
Speaker 1: to be fair, people ask me where I grew up,
Speaker 1: and I do say Florida. I do say, Sarah Soda.
Speaker 1: I think I left Wisconsin when I was like nine
Speaker 1: years old, so I do equate growing up with Florida.
Speaker 1: Although it's weird because you know, nine years old is
Speaker 1: kind of that time when it's like it's like split
Speaker 1: your childhood, right, I mean, it's literally halfway in between
Speaker 1: being born and leaving for college. But yeah, I think
Speaker 1: like within a year or two of moving to Florida,
Speaker 1: I switched allegiances to the Bucks. Okay, because you know,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be the person in Florida rooting
Speaker 1: for the rooting for the Green Bay Packers or you do.
Speaker 1: But that was a choice you made. That's a choice
Speaker 1: I made, you know, you know, I got you know, Brian,
Speaker 1: I got bullied enough in high school. I didn't need
Speaker 1: I didn't need that added I didn't need that added
Speaker 1: element to it there. All right, Well that's that's fair enough.
Speaker 1: I actually have relatives in sarah Sota. Do you really
Speaker 1: down there? I do, It's been a number of years
Speaker 1: since I've been down there. The Great Area Town District
Speaker 1: CSA key down there in sarah Sota. Yeah. Best beach
Speaker 1: in the country, best best beach in the country, like
Speaker 1: not my not my personal opinion. Like google it oh Google,
Speaker 1: Oh Google, Oh that's what Google like actually rated. I mean,
Speaker 1: you could probably ask chat GBT as well. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it might give you a slightly different answer, but yeah, Google,
Speaker 1: Google's never wrong. Um. So, so you grew up in Florida,
Speaker 1: when did you first start thinking, Oh, acting sounds kind
Speaker 1: of fun. Was this something you were interested in early on?
Speaker 1: Or was this this a developed taste? This this was
Speaker 1: something I was interested in early on. But there's there's
Speaker 1: a couple of caveats to that. Number One. I actually
Speaker 1: wasn't interested in it. Um My mother thought that I
Speaker 1: would be interested in it. Um she she, for whatever
Speaker 1: reason thought and it's probably just because I was a
Speaker 1: little rambunctious and uh, you know, was always kind of
Speaker 1: running around trying to steal the spotlight, and so she
Speaker 1: probably just wanted an outlet. So that when I came
Speaker 1: home from school, you know I would be quiet. Um.
Speaker 1: So she kind of encouraged when I when I started
Speaker 1: high school, she kind of encouraged, you know, why don't
Speaker 1: you take why don't you take acting level one and
Speaker 1: just see what happens. I think you'd I think you'd
Speaker 1: love it. Um. And I remember fighting around it too.
Speaker 1: I was like, why do I want to like, No,
Speaker 1: that sounds that sounds terrible. Let me take you know,
Speaker 1: like let me take study Hall or like or like
Speaker 1: Jim or something where I can just dick around for
Speaker 1: an hour, right um. And so of course, you know,
Speaker 1: as the as the tale always goes, mother knows best.
Speaker 1: And uh, I can still remember the extra size and
Speaker 1: the teacher that we had. She was brilliant. Her name
Speaker 1: was Terry Wood. She had been in LA for a while,
Speaker 1: I think done some like soap operas and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But she was an incredible acting teacher. And I will
Speaker 1: never forget the very first day of that first year
Speaker 1: in high school as a freshman, going into acting class,
Speaker 1: and there was an exercise where we were all on
Speaker 1: the stage sitting in a circle, and she kind of
Speaker 1: laid out this story for us and she said, so
Speaker 1: your parents gave you one hundred dollars to come to
Speaker 1: school with. And that hundred dollars and I forget exactly
Speaker 1: what the details were, but it was something that really
Speaker 1: drove the stakes up right. That hundred dollars was really
Speaker 1: really important. It was you know, it was like to
Speaker 1: fix you know, your car at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: and if you weren't going to pick up your brother, YadA, YadA,
Speaker 1: YadA whatever. Very high stakes. And you've now misplaced that
Speaker 1: hundred dollars. You cannot find it. What do you do?
Speaker 1: And me sitting there, you know, we're all sitting there
Speaker 1: literally first first day of high school, and so I
Speaker 1: kind of start doing what I think is acting right.
Speaker 1: I like start going through my pockets and like starting
Speaker 1: to look concerned and all this stuff. And meanwhile I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm like sideye, glancing at the teacher, like am I
Speaker 1: doing this right? You know? Like is this what you
Speaker 1: were is this what you were going for? Like? How
Speaker 1: how good am I? As an actor? And I remember
Speaker 1: this one guy in the class. I can still picture
Speaker 1: his face. His name was Chris, and he got up
Speaker 1: from the stage and went down to his seat in
Speaker 1: the audience and started tearing through his backpack and throwing
Speaker 1: things around. And I remember everybody in the class, including myself,
Speaker 1: just stopped and watched this guy and immediately and of course,
Speaker 1: you know that was kind of a lesson, right, It's like, yes,
Speaker 1: that that is exactly what she was trying to get
Speaker 1: us to do. And I just remember being so enthralled
Speaker 1: with like, oh, like that's what acting is. That was
Speaker 1: like that was insane, Like this guy just got up
Speaker 1: and started tearing through Like I never in a million
Speaker 1: years would have thought to do something like that, And
Speaker 1: so it clicked very very quickly for me. I was like,
Speaker 1: that's cool, Like I want to I want to learn
Speaker 1: how to do that. I want to I want to
Speaker 1: be able to capture some strangers attend and just by
Speaker 1: doing something like that. And so, you know, it grew
Speaker 1: and it became something that I really enjoyed doing. But
Speaker 1: to be totally honest with you, it was a high
Speaker 1: school hobby. I mean, never in a million years did
Speaker 1: I I mean I think I read that you you
Speaker 1: did this in high school but then also went on
Speaker 1: to study it in college and got your degree and
Speaker 1: all that stuff that that was in the back of
Speaker 1: my mind. You know, when I left high school and
Speaker 1: went to college, I was going to go to law school.
Speaker 1: You know, I was never going to be an actor professionally,
Speaker 1: because let's be honest, Brian, who becomes an actor professionally? Right? Well,
Speaker 1: law school, to be fair, that was my plan. B
Speaker 1: So you did plays in high school. I did plays,
Speaker 1: and I also I made a note to ask you
Speaker 1: about this. I also did competitive speech and debate, and
Speaker 1: I went to all of the tournaments. And did you
Speaker 1: do the same thing? Yes? So, I yeah, I saw
Speaker 1: that note. You moost such nerds. I love this. You
Speaker 1: joined the speech and debate team. You did duo interp
Speaker 1: I did. They called it at the time humorous, and
Speaker 1: there was dramatic interb and I did dramatic intern I
Speaker 1: bet you did. And actually it was more successful the
Speaker 1: year that I went to nationals there for dramatic interm. Uh.
Speaker 1: So you so that that you were serious about that,
Speaker 1: Like you would do that on the weekends. You would
Speaker 1: go to the competitions. Oh yeah, and we had to
Speaker 1: and and my high school had a like, like, the
Speaker 1: speech and debate team in my high school was legit.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were in I remember it was like
Speaker 1: two seasons. Right. I don't know if you guys did
Speaker 1: this because you were you were in Atlanta, right, so
Speaker 1: not that far away, that's right. We did like in
Speaker 1: the fall. You know, there weren't like the the you know,
Speaker 1: the acting events that the speech. It was more it
Speaker 1: was more debate. It was like congressional debate, you know,
Speaker 1: where we would go to like the state capitol and
Speaker 1: have these tournaments and stuff. So I would do that
Speaker 1: in the fall, and then in the spring is when
Speaker 1: it branched out into all those different categories. Right. You
Speaker 1: guys probably had the same thing where it was like
Speaker 1: you know, poetry and prose and like all this different stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, in the spring, yeah, became I actually
Speaker 1: I actually started to prefer that overdoing plays in high school.
Speaker 1: I think because of like the competitive nature of it.
Speaker 1: You know, Like I also played tennis, and so there
Speaker 1: was just like this competitive itch in me and I
Speaker 1: was like, yes, I want to act, but I also
Speaker 1: want to beat people at acting. And so yeah I did.
Speaker 1: I did duo interpretation, and then like once in a while,
Speaker 1: my partner wouldn't be available for a tournament, so I
Speaker 1: would like jump into humorous or dramatic or something like that.
Speaker 1: And I mean it was a blast, Like it was.
Speaker 1: Looking back on it, it it really was like the nerdiest
Speaker 1: possible medium for acting, you know, like like the rules
Speaker 1: and and and just kind of like the stiffness of
Speaker 1: it all in duo interpretation. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: ever saw it, but like you weren't actually allowed to
Speaker 1: look at your partner. It was like you were both
Speaker 1: facing out towards the back of the room and it's
Speaker 1: like you picked up he picked like a spot on
Speaker 1: the back of the room and that was like, you know,
Speaker 1: like you were looking at your partner, but it was
Speaker 1: all facing out to the audience. Yes, yes, I have
Speaker 1: seen it before. It was really fun. I mean it
Speaker 1: truly was like it was a good time in the
Speaker 1: nerdiest acting, dork kind of kind of way possible. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because so I, like you, it sounds I
Speaker 1: am a very competitive person and started in sports, so
Speaker 1: I think there was something about about me that that
Speaker 1: really got off on that as well. Like, but what's
Speaker 1: funny for me is that not the intern stuff, but
Speaker 1: the competition stuff continues through college. There's there's a competition
Speaker 1: acting competition called the Irene Ryans. I don't know how
Speaker 1: I just pulled that out. That is impressive. And we
Speaker 1: did like the one act play competitions. We went and
Speaker 1: won a national one act play comp and it was
Speaker 1: all about that. And then I went to college. I
Speaker 1: went to SMU and the person who was head of
Speaker 1: the acting program there specifically said, no, we're not doing that.
Speaker 1: That's not acting. We're here to actually learn the process
Speaker 1: of acting, which I know, which is so it's funny
Speaker 1: now like time it. At the time, I was like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: this is That's a very reasonable approach. I'm here just
Speaker 1: to learn. I'm here just to learn. But now I'm like, God,
Speaker 1: I wish I could have crushed this person. People took
Speaker 1: it so seriously. I'm sure you remember, like it was
Speaker 1: like I will never forget being at those tournaments and
Speaker 1: like and like, I don't know if they did it
Speaker 1: this way when you were there, and we could move
Speaker 1: on from high school speech and debate to this or
Speaker 1: not or not. We could just do an entire hour
Speaker 1: on this. Yes, maybe this is a separate podcast that
Speaker 1: we need. You know, sometimes I do wonder, like if
Speaker 1: kids are still doing this and I school, I'm sure
Speaker 1: that they are, But like I remember being those tournaments
Speaker 1: and it was like you would do your your initial
Speaker 1: few rounds or whatever, and then like they would put
Speaker 1: up like a big poster board that just had your
Speaker 1: your team number or your your competitor number written on it,
Speaker 1: and it was like, if you broke onto the next round,
Speaker 1: then your number would be on the board. So everybody
Speaker 1: kind of sat around like just you know, biting their fingernails,
Speaker 1: and they put up this thing, and everybody would rush
Speaker 1: up to the board and like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: on there. And then you know, if you if your
Speaker 1: number wasn't on there, you were just crushed. And it
Speaker 1: would just go like that until you got to the
Speaker 1: final round, where it was like, you know, six, you know,
Speaker 1: six people or six teams were on that thing. I
Speaker 1: that is so funny that you say that, because I
Speaker 1: remember that. It feels like, and you're younger than I am,
Speaker 1: but it feels like nineteen seventy two or something, where
Speaker 1: like everyone is standing around waiting for a piece of
Speaker 1: paper to get taped to the wall. I know the
Speaker 1: internet existed when you were growing when you were doing this. Now,
Speaker 1: I wonder if that drama is gone. It's probably one app.
Speaker 1: You know, you probably get like a notification on an
Speaker 1: app and it's like, you know, you're off. But the
Speaker 1: exciting part about it was that there was a community,
Speaker 1: you know, and like even though it was competitive, like
Speaker 1: when you got to those later rounds of the competition,
Speaker 1: all the people that had been like eliminated you know,
Speaker 1: previously would come and watch, so all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, before it was just the teams you were
Speaker 1: competing against in the room. Now you get to like
Speaker 1: the quarterfinals, the semifinals, the finals. Now you've got huge
Speaker 1: rooms full of people that have just come to watch
Speaker 1: because it's entertaining. And like that was kind of my
Speaker 1: first sense of, like, you know, outside of high school plays,
Speaker 1: performing for people, you know, in a very real, like
Speaker 1: live setting, and it was, I mean, it's exhilarating and
Speaker 1: and how was that for you? Did you did you?
Speaker 1: Did you get a high from that? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: completforming in front of people? Yeah, I mean I absolutely
Speaker 1: loved it that. I mean, especially doing comedy, as you know,
Speaker 1: it's like you get that you know, you you you
Speaker 1: you launch in in that first thirty forty five seconds
Speaker 1: comes the first joke and you can tell right then
Speaker 1: if this is going to go well or not, you know,
Speaker 1: if it's if it's crickets in the room all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, it's like, oh my god, I have nine
Speaker 1: more minutes of this and this is going to be
Speaker 1: a disaster. But like if there's a if there's a
Speaker 1: big laugh on that first joke, it's like, let's go here,
Speaker 1: we got this. I read you did fifteen years of
Speaker 1: competitive tennis. Now I was a tennis player as well,
Speaker 1: and I could say the same thing. Something tells me
Speaker 1: you were a little bit more more serious than I was.
Speaker 1: What so this this was because I grew up in Florida.
Speaker 1: I mean Florida was like Florida was like ground zero
Speaker 1: for the the hyper competitive, mostly douche you know, young
Speaker 1: people growing up who were being coached by their parents
Speaker 1: and going to all the all the fancy academies and whatnot.
Speaker 1: I mean, because you could play year round. Of course.
Speaker 1: So did you go to a fancy academy? You know?
Speaker 1: I started at one and I think it was a
Speaker 1: combination with Terry. It was Nick Boltary Nick I didn't
Speaker 1: do that research. Wow, Yeah, yeah, I went to Nick Military.
Speaker 1: I was there. I worked there for let's see, I
Speaker 1: think I trained there for like it wasn't long, it
Speaker 1: was like two months or something. And then I think
Speaker 1: I realized very quickly that I wasn't good enough to
Speaker 1: actually be getting coached by Nick himself. You know, that
Speaker 1: was of course reserved for like the you know, Andy
Speaker 1: Roddick was only like a few years ahead of me,
Speaker 1: so I remember he was like a big thing growing up,
Speaker 1: and like there was people at that level, you know,
Speaker 1: people that were clearly about to be professional tennis players,
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, you know, this is kind
Speaker 1: of stupid. I'm like being trained by these So I
Speaker 1: ended up going to a smaller one called Billy Stearns.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean I played in high school. I
Speaker 1: you know, I eventually gave up all my other sports
Speaker 1: to kind of focus on tennis, and I played year round,
Speaker 1: you know, a train during the summer Florida summers, of course,
Speaker 1: when they would let you be on the court for
Speaker 1: about ten minutes at a time and then you would
Speaker 1: you know, a mandated break for five minutes. So it
Speaker 1: was just like constant back and forth. But I mean
Speaker 1: I loved it. It was you know, there was nothing
Speaker 1: nothing better than me. I don't know where I got
Speaker 1: this competitive you know, drive from, but I guess in
Speaker 1: theory it served me. Well, well, it's interesting because tennis,
Speaker 1: and I assume you played singles, did singles and doubles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you did doubles. So that's kind of like the
Speaker 1: duo thing. You're choosing these competitive outlets that are usually
Speaker 1: done solo. But yeah, you're choosing to have a partner. Now.
Speaker 1: For you, that competition continued to drive you through college
Speaker 1: and you wanted to go to law school. I guess
Speaker 1: although I didn't really do anything competitive other than like
Speaker 1: you know, pledge of fraternity, which I guess, which I
Speaker 1: guess was like kind of competitive, you know, like got
Speaker 1: to get into the best fret of course, right, But no,
Speaker 1: I mean I yeah, who wah wah, you know it?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know it. Yeah. You Virginia people, you're
Speaker 1: so smug about Virginia, are we really? Let me just
Speaker 1: tell you. You know, what I kept hearing when I
Speaker 1: went to SMU was that it was built the design
Speaker 1: was exactly the same as Virginia. No way, That's what
Speaker 1: I heard. So it's like like the lawn and like
Speaker 1: all the lawn and stuff, the dome big rotunda. So
Speaker 1: did we also, you know, you know where a lot
Speaker 1: of that smugness came from. It's like, we didn't you know, VA,
Speaker 1: we don't call it a campus. It's called grounds. If
Speaker 1: that's right. If you say campus, you will be chastised. Um.
Speaker 1: And then of course we don't call it freshman, sophomore, junior, senior.
Speaker 1: It was first second. Yeah, so stupid, that's you know,
Speaker 1: I know it's stupid, but I still I'm an alumni
Speaker 1: and I'm still like, you know what, that's what we do.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this is how we roll. It's like the
Speaker 1: Ohio State University. There's a similar smugness and duchery that
Speaker 1: is associated with both of that. I'm going I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get hell from. But schools out to you now, Yeah, look,
Speaker 1: by the way, I love both schools. They're fantastic, fantastics
Speaker 1: universities of higher learning. So you go to university, you
Speaker 1: were just on the law school track. I studied government,
Speaker 1: I studied history. I studied economics. In no in no
Speaker 1: sense that I ever did I ever even consider I
Speaker 1: didn't even take a class. I mean at that point,
Speaker 1: at that point, acting was completely in my past. I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, cool. That was fun in high school. Um,
Speaker 1: now let's move on to like, you know, grown up things. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so when did it change? So it changed? Because I mean,
Speaker 1: it's funny. I often think that, like my entire career
Speaker 1: was a complete coincidence because I graduated from school and
Speaker 1: my I hit this plan where like I wanted to
Speaker 1: take a couple of years off before I went to
Speaker 1: law school. I don't know why. I think at the time,
Speaker 1: I realized that, like, you know, law schools and the
Speaker 1: career track of a lawyer is an interesting thing. It's like,
Speaker 1: once you go to law school, you're you're kind of
Speaker 1: stuck on that path because you've got to graduate from
Speaker 1: law school and then immediately take the bar. You know.
Speaker 1: You sound like you can graduate from law school and
Speaker 1: then take the bar two years later it will fail.
Speaker 1: And then once you take the bar, you kind of
Speaker 1: have to get a job. You know, you got to
Speaker 1: go into two a law firm and start your career.
Speaker 1: You know, again, if you take the bar and then
Speaker 1: take two years off, nobody's gonna hire you. So I
Speaker 1: just I kind of intuitively knew that at that age,
Speaker 1: and I was like, if I'm ever going to take
Speaker 1: time off, this is the time to do it. And
Speaker 1: I had gotten an internship at this law firm in
Speaker 1: LA and it was supposed to be for like recent undergraduates,
Speaker 1: you know, who were either about to start law school,
Speaker 1: were going to start law school sometime in the next
Speaker 1: year or two. So I came out for that. It was,
Speaker 1: you know, it was an exciting thing. You had to
Speaker 1: apply to get it. And it was a big, fancy
Speaker 1: corporate law firm, which is exactly what I thought I
Speaker 1: wanted to do. So I found myself in LA for
Speaker 1: this summer and long story short, I mean I kind
Speaker 1: of just got a bitter taste in my mouth from
Speaker 1: working at this law firm. I was, you know, I
Speaker 1: saw a lot of partners at this law firm who
Speaker 1: were in their fifties and sixties, and they just weren't
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, they would they would be very
Speaker 1: honest with me in these little meetings that we would
Speaker 1: have where they said, you know, I put it bluntly,
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of money, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: make a lot of money, but I'm divorced, and I
Speaker 1: don't know my kids that well. And I'm sixty years
Speaker 1: old and I still work sixty five or seventy hours
Speaker 1: a week, and it was a lot of that, you know,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, is this really you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is actually what I what
Speaker 1: I want to do. I thought about maybe, you know,
Speaker 1: being a judge and like doing constitutional law, but you know,
Speaker 1: you don't make very much money doing that, and I
Speaker 1: do like money, so you know, that was that was
Speaker 1: always in the back of my mind. So I basically
Speaker 1: after that internship ended, I said, you know what, I
Speaker 1: loved acting in high school. I'm in LA this is
Speaker 1: where it all happens. Why not just like try that
Speaker 1: for a couple of years, you know, in that interim
Speaker 1: two years off and see what happens and uh and
Speaker 1: if nothing happens, then you know, no harm. No felt
Speaker 1: that was my plan. Anyway, I go, I go to
Speaker 1: law school as intended um and that plan quickly got
Speaker 1: shot down. Which now it's so funny because what an idiot, like,
Speaker 1: what a dumb ass I was, you know, isn't it
Speaker 1: funny when we're when we're like twenty two years old
Speaker 1: and we're like, yeah, no, I've got this off, Like
Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing. I got this figured out.
Speaker 1: This is this is easy. But I had a meeting
Speaker 1: with um a producer named Brad Fuller, who is I mean,
Speaker 1: he's he's a huge producer. Even at that time. He was,
Speaker 1: you know, a big producer with Michael Bay's partner and
Speaker 1: been doing this for a long time. And he's a
Speaker 1: he's a family family acquaintance, and so they you know,
Speaker 1: kind of set this up. And he was gracious enough
Speaker 1: to sit down with this, you know, twenty two year
Speaker 1: old kid for honestly an hour. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but I told him this plan and he kind of
Speaker 1: laughed in my face, honestly, and he said, he said, Okay,
Speaker 1: not to shit on your dreams or anything, but if
Speaker 1: if your plan is to try this for a couple
Speaker 1: of years and see what happens, then don't bother. You know,
Speaker 1: this is not the kind of industry, This is not
Speaker 1: the kind of career where you can try it for
Speaker 1: two years and see what happens, because nothing's gonna happen,
Speaker 1: like I promise you that. And so I almost remember
Speaker 1: my face like melting, you know, like trying to trying
Speaker 1: to like not cry because I thought I had this
Speaker 1: all figured out, and then this guy is just like
Speaker 1: turning my whole plan upside down. And I remember asking him,
Speaker 1: we'll have okay, not two years, like how long? Three years?
Speaker 1: Four years? And he fled out told me ten years.
Speaker 1: He said, you need ten years to figure out a
Speaker 1: few things, right, and you'll relate to this, right, you
Speaker 1: need you need ten years to figure out a if
Speaker 1: you even like it. You know, a lot of times
Speaker 1: we do this as younger kids and we think, oh,
Speaker 1: this is so fun, and then and then we start
Speaker 1: doing it professionally, it's like, no, this is not this
Speaker 1: is not nearly as fun as it was. He said,
Speaker 1: you need to know if you're any good at it,
Speaker 1: because the same thing. You know, everybody thinks you're good
Speaker 1: when you're a kid, and then you start doing it
Speaker 1: as an adult and they're like, nope, not actually not
Speaker 1: actually that good at this. And then of course if
Speaker 1: you can deal with like the ups in the downs right,
Speaker 1: the roller coasters, and he said, you won't know any
Speaker 1: of that really until you're about ten years in. And
Speaker 1: funny enough, I would give the exact same advice to
Speaker 1: somebody now. I mean, I mean, do you do you agree? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. I have sort of a similar theory which
Speaker 1: is that the people who live in New York, or
Speaker 1: they live in Chicago, or they live in London or
Speaker 1: wherever else and they come to LA for a pilot season.
Speaker 1: This for me never made sense. Now it works out, yeah,
Speaker 1: somehow for some people it works out. But for me, yeah,
Speaker 1: that well it worked out back when there was a
Speaker 1: pilot season. Well that's for one, that's true. But yeah,
Speaker 1: just the idea that I'm just gonna go to LA
Speaker 1: and try this for a couple of months and see,
Speaker 1: because the likelihood that one you're gonna get a pilot
Speaker 1: is not great, and then two that that pilot is
Speaker 1: going to get made, and then three that it's going
Speaker 1: to turn into a series. Like I agree, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: have to play. For me, you had to play the
Speaker 1: long game, which was why I never came until I
Speaker 1: was ready to move smart. I mean, here's the point.
Speaker 1: It is a business. It is a business. It's not
Speaker 1: a flight of fancy. I mean, you know it is.
Speaker 1: You sort of mentioned this. It's kind of a young
Speaker 1: person's game, right, and you have the energy, you have
Speaker 1: the ability to you know, uh, the desire to sleep
Speaker 1: on someone's sofa for a period of time and be
Speaker 1: sort of a okay with that, But I think approaching
Speaker 1: it as a business and taking that long term ten
Speaker 1: years whatever whatever that number is, is exactly right. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, And the funny thing is it literally was
Speaker 1: a young person's game for me because I you know,
Speaker 1: the the second piece of the advice that I got
Speaker 1: from from Bread was you know. He then said, Okay, look,
Speaker 1: if you decide you want to do did you did
Speaker 1: you study this in college? I said, well no, he said,
Speaker 1: so you're telling me you just did some plays in
Speaker 1: high school. I was like, yeah, more or less. The
Speaker 1: ridiculousness that I was presenting to this like established producer,
Speaker 1: it still haunts me to this day, like truly it
Speaker 1: gives me nightmares. But but he said, well, look, you
Speaker 1: probably need to spend some time like studying, going back
Speaker 1: to school, like learning how to do this. You know,
Speaker 1: don't rush out and try to get an agent and
Speaker 1: a manager and try to start auditioning. You know, this
Speaker 1: is a cutthroat business. You will walk into a casting
Speaker 1: office and if you're not up to snuff, they will
Speaker 1: take a big black marker and just cross off your name,
Speaker 1: which which is true. I mean, I learned that the
Speaker 1: hard way once or twice. I mean, to this day,
Speaker 1: is that is very true. Yeah yeah, people think, well,
Speaker 1: I'll just give it a shot. What you know, what's
Speaker 1: the harm in going and giving it a shot? And
Speaker 1: if you're not prepared. You know, everybody is doing their
Speaker 1: own job within this business, right, it is a business
Speaker 1: for that. So you get somebody to convince a casting
Speaker 1: director or a producer to have you seen on a
Speaker 1: show when there are thousands of people who want to
Speaker 1: be seen on this show. And we're even seen in
Speaker 1: an audition, seen in an audition back when we were
Speaker 1: going into a room and they only had you know,
Speaker 1: thirty forty spots to see people that's right seen for
Speaker 1: a show. I mean yeah yeah, and you waste their time.
Speaker 1: Oh you'll never walk back in there again. To this day,
Speaker 1: I have a casting director or two that will not
Speaker 1: see me like truly to this day. It's it's it's remarkable.
Speaker 1: But but I mean, you know, it does exactly what
Speaker 1: you just said, it makes, it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: And I mean he kind of scared the shit out
Speaker 1: of me. So I really did spend a few years
Speaker 1: just studying and training. You know, It's not like I
Speaker 1: went back to college. Or anything, but just with different
Speaker 1: teachers around town. And I really took that seriously. You know,
Speaker 1: I kind of treated it like graduate school, even though
Speaker 1: you know, much less expensive of course, and and you know,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't really until I was in my mid
Speaker 1: twenties easily that I was even like trying to go
Speaker 1: out on auditions, you know. So I really got a
Speaker 1: late jump on on all of this. And it was
Speaker 1: funny because I still looked so young. I mean, I
Speaker 1: still you know, I get I get rid of this,
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, oh my god, you could probably
Speaker 1: play college age still. But like I remember going into
Speaker 1: at age twenty six twenty seven, going into auditions for
Speaker 1: like Disney shows to play like fifteen year olds, and
Speaker 1: there were actually there were you know, the room was
Speaker 1: filled with kids and their parents, and you know, I
Speaker 1: I was so like, I was so embarrassed that I
Speaker 1: would say, oh, you know, my dad dropped me off.
Speaker 1: You know, he's coming back to he's coming back to
Speaker 1: pick me up a little bit, because it was just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's me and all of these children,
Speaker 1: and like, I, you know, I'm a grown man. I
Speaker 1: remember playing high school when I was thirty years old
Speaker 1: and thinking like, Okay, I think I think this is it.
Speaker 1: I think this is my last opportunity to play high
Speaker 1: school because at the point, you just like, you know, mentally,
Speaker 1: you forget what it was like to be in high
Speaker 1: school and be able to portray that. But that's always
Speaker 1: kind of been my path, I think in this industry,
Speaker 1: as I was on a late track. You know, I
Speaker 1: didn't start until till later in life, and I and
Speaker 1: I still look young, so I kind of have this
Speaker 1: weird like dichotomy that I've always been wrestling with. So
Speaker 1: when did you When did you finally have the confidence
Speaker 1: that you were ready to start going out for shows?
Speaker 1: I mean, it happened. I'm not sure there was any
Speaker 1: one moment. I remember a young woman in one of
Speaker 1: my acting classes that I worked with a few times,
Speaker 1: said hey, you know, do you have a manager or
Speaker 1: an agent or anything. And she ended up setting me
Speaker 1: up with her manager, and and that kind of fell
Speaker 1: through after a short amount of time, and then I
Speaker 1: got another manager that I was with for a very
Speaker 1: long time, and I guess it just kind of started
Speaker 1: starting slowly happening, where like this audition and this audition
Speaker 1: and then you booked a little costar where it's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll still remember for the rest of my
Speaker 1: life that very first co star that I got that
Speaker 1: was two lines, and I remember getting the call and thinking,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be on television, Like I'm gonna actually be
Speaker 1: paid to be on television. This is the best moment
Speaker 1: of my life. And it was, you know, there was
Speaker 1: like one or two lines on a CW show, and
Speaker 1: I just thought it was like the coolest, you know,
Speaker 1: the coolest thing ever. And I mean, you know how
Speaker 1: careers go, like they you know, you slowly kind of
Speaker 1: build and you book some small parts, and I do
Speaker 1: remember there being well, there were a couple of moments.
Speaker 1: There was one after I had done a number of
Speaker 1: guest stars that show, Pretty Little Liars came out and
Speaker 1: it was like kind of a big deal and I
Speaker 1: had never read the books or anything. I didn't really
Speaker 1: know about it, but I remember getting it and starting
Speaker 1: to like research it, and I remember thinking like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is like a this is like a thing, Like
Speaker 1: the people that are on this show as regulars are
Speaker 1: gonna be you know, they're gonna be famous, Like they're
Speaker 1: gonna be big, big deals. And I did like three
Speaker 1: episodes at the very beginning of the show. But that
Speaker 1: was kind of my first taste of like like I
Speaker 1: remember my manager telling me how much money I was
Speaker 1: gonna make and it was like it was nothing, you know,
Speaker 1: but like I remember thinking, what, like in for one week,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make that much money, Like holy shit, this
Speaker 1: is incredible, like wow, and like and like the scripts
Speaker 1: got delivered to my house by like a courier, you know,
Speaker 1: because I had to be at the table read the
Speaker 1: next day, and I was like hello, like I am
Speaker 1: all right. It's like we are getting somewhere now. So
Speaker 1: it's so funny because yeah, I mean that that experience
Speaker 1: of like, wow, this is what I'm getting paid. But
Speaker 1: then it's like, oh, right, but I haven't worked in
Speaker 1: three months and I will sell them three months after
Speaker 1: this at least, right, So take that one week and
Speaker 1: spread that over exactly three months, and you're like oh right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was like immediately doing the math, I'm like, great,
Speaker 1: this much per week times fifty two weeks a year.
Speaker 1: I'm rich. I am right, but like this is awesome.
Speaker 1: And then it's like no, no, no, no, you will
Speaker 1: be back to unemployed in about three weeks. Yeah, your
Speaker 1: mind's like, wait, why is my car still at the
Speaker 1: doe yard. I don't understand. I thought I was getting
Speaker 1: paid all this money then, But yeah, I mean that
Speaker 1: that happened and then and then, you know, I did
Speaker 1: go through I did go through a trough. And I
Speaker 1: remember this. I've talked about this before. I think the
Speaker 1: year was twenty and twelve and I had done you know,
Speaker 1: I'd been working for a couple of years at that point,
Speaker 1: pretty consistently on you know, guest stars and things like that,
Speaker 1: some recurring roles and money, you know, some money was
Speaker 1: coming in. I did some commercials back in the day.
Speaker 1: I remember commercials were like a big thing, and you know,
Speaker 1: you could actually make a living doing just just commercials.
Speaker 1: You know, you would do one national commercial and you know,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, sixty eighty one hundred grand was
Speaker 1: was showing up in your mailbox with residuals. It was
Speaker 1: I mean, it was mind blowing to me. But like,
Speaker 1: you know, I was starting to kind of feel it.
Speaker 1: But then, for whatever reason, I wasn't getting the bigger roles,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I would go out an audition for
Speaker 1: them and I would get called back, and like you know,
Speaker 1: would get down to like maybe the last two or
Speaker 1: three people, and it just it wasn't happening. And like, um,
Speaker 1: you know who I always heard talking about this and
Speaker 1: I someday I will meet him and I will thank
Speaker 1: him for for giving me hope. Was John Hamm because
Speaker 1: I hear him, you know, every every time people talk
Speaker 1: to him and interview him. You've talked to him actually, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know you know him obviously, but like he always
Speaker 1: talks about that. You know, he was getting close and
Speaker 1: just never getting the thing. And I remember reading at
Speaker 1: some point he you know, he tested for fifteen or
Speaker 1: seventeen pilots and he was, you know, thirty five years
Speaker 1: old when he got Madmen and I and he specifically
Speaker 1: was somebody that I held onto was like, okay, it's
Speaker 1: not too late, Like I'm like, this is like this
Speaker 1: is actually how it's supposed to go. You know. Like
Speaker 1: I had an acting coach named John Rosenfeld that I
Speaker 1: worked with for a long time and I'm still very
Speaker 1: close with. He had a great quote that I really
Speaker 1: took to heart that I think every actor should take
Speaker 1: to heart. He said, booking is a mistake. Booking a
Speaker 1: job is a mistake. It's it's it's truly an accident
Speaker 1: because it oftentimes has nothing to do with the audition
Speaker 1: that you're that you're doing, you know, with the work
Speaker 1: that you're doing. It's a million other reasons that go
Speaker 1: into it. You know that we have no control over.
Speaker 1: He said. The thing you can control is getting yourself
Speaker 1: in contention. If you're good and you're doing good work,
Speaker 1: and you put yourself in a position to be one
Speaker 1: of those last few, you know in the mix, that's
Speaker 1: the best that you can hope for. And then beyond that,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it, Like things will start happening at
Speaker 1: some point. And so those those were kind of the
Speaker 1: things that I took to heart, and I thought, you
Speaker 1: know what, this this will happen at some point. Just
Speaker 1: keep I was also a psychopath, by the way, when
Speaker 1: it came to like researching and preparing it, like, I
Speaker 1: know a lot of actors, I feel like actors, I'm
Speaker 1: curious with what you think about this. If I would
Speaker 1: audition for something, I would then look up exactly when
Speaker 1: that episode of television was gonna air, and I would
Speaker 1: record it and I would watch it, and I would say,
Speaker 1: who got this part? And what did they do differently
Speaker 1: for me? Why did they get that part? And I
Speaker 1: did not like I needed to know? And it was
Speaker 1: religious like every single and I still do it to
Speaker 1: this day, I believe it or not. Every single thing
Speaker 1: I auditioned for that I don't get I watch because
Speaker 1: I'm like, what motherfucker got this thing? And what did
Speaker 1: they do that was better than me? And I know
Speaker 1: so many actors that are like once they once they
Speaker 1: leave that audition room, they're just like forget it, don't
Speaker 1: want to think about it, don't want to know who
Speaker 1: got it, don't want to don't want to watch it,
Speaker 1: or anything like that. But the advantage I think that
Speaker 1: gave me, and what was really helpful about that was
Speaker 1: I oftentimes saw they didn't do anything better than me.
Speaker 1: You know, like either they did something very similar what
Speaker 1: I did, or to be quite honest, they were like
Speaker 1: not quite as good as what I thought I did,
Speaker 1: and there was some other reason that they got hired. Now,
Speaker 1: of course, once in a while you do see that
Speaker 1: thing where you're like, oh shit, yeah, yeah, that person,
Speaker 1: that person's really good. But then you still learn from it, right,
Speaker 1: You're like, wow, I would not have thought to take this, this,
Speaker 1: this role or this material in that in that direction.
Speaker 1: So it's it's super educational and I think that actually
Speaker 1: helped me quite a bit. I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you ever reached that level of sociopathy, but um,
Speaker 1: I was a sociopath about researching the show. You know,
Speaker 1: the genre, the style, um, before going in. I think
Speaker 1: the only thing that I will do now, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna really quick if I'm gonna admit it is
Speaker 1: if there's something that I'm really interested in now and
Speaker 1: I know that I'm in the mix for and it
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, I will demand to know who got it
Speaker 1: and where they live and pray that they are five
Speaker 1: five on one hundred and twenty five pounds, like yep,
Speaker 1: if you know when when it comes. And I think
Speaker 1: this happened one time. God bless him. I was a
Speaker 1: big fan of him as a person and uh and
Speaker 1: as an actor. But like, if Leslie Jordan got it
Speaker 1: instead of me, then I'm like, totally cool, that's totally fine.
Speaker 1: They were looking for something else. I felt like my
Speaker 1: version was okay, yeah, but there you go. UM that's
Speaker 1: how I am. It's like I get something or I
Speaker 1: come close to something and then like I see Idris
Speaker 1: Elbow got it, and I'm just like, yeah, yeah, well
Speaker 1: sure of course, So that's they were they were looking
Speaker 1: for Idris Elp. No, that's obviously never happened, but that
Speaker 1: would be that would be a dream. Oh that's funny.
Speaker 1: But then it's like, uh, and I know him a
Speaker 1: little bit too. But if you know John Carroll Lynch,
Speaker 1: when I see John Carroll Lynch got it, I was like, well, fuck,
Speaker 1: I just screwed it up. I clearly just screwed it up.
Speaker 1: It's like your doppelganger gets the role. Yeah, exactly. In
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, you finally get a significant role the Originals,
Speaker 1: the role of Josh. Now, had you seen Vampire Diaries before?
Speaker 1: I hadn't, but of course I had heard of it.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody I had heard of it. At that point.
Speaker 1: I hadn't watched it. I had. I had auditioned for
Speaker 1: the Originals for like the backdoor pilot that they did
Speaker 1: in one of the seasons of Vampire Diaries, and I
Speaker 1: didn't get that. And then once the series got picked
Speaker 1: up and they called me in for this other role
Speaker 1: that was You're right, that was kind of like my
Speaker 1: first I would call it like maybe significant real break,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't supposed to be, right. It was supposed
Speaker 1: to be, which I found out later, and I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize this. I kind of had an instinct,
Speaker 1: but I thought that it was supposed to be like
Speaker 1: three episodes. You know, they even told me, like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're written in three episodes, maybe it goes to four,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they extend you a little bit. And
Speaker 1: then I got there and I started doing this this role,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, something just kind of clicked, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it was you know, I'm sure it was a
Speaker 1: combination of like the work I was doing and the
Speaker 1: character itself was just something that they kind of needed
Speaker 1: on the show. You know, it kind of filled a
Speaker 1: gap on the show. But you know that three or
Speaker 1: four episodes turned into turned into five seasons and my
Speaker 1: first series regular, And that was when I first felt like, oh,
Speaker 1: something I did, something I'm doing is at least having
Speaker 1: an impact on on the work that I'm getting. You know,
Speaker 1: like they saw that I was doing something and they
Speaker 1: decided to keep this character around for five seasons, and
Speaker 1: that was that was a good feeling. You know, that
Speaker 1: was the first time in my career where I was like, great,
Speaker 1: I think that I can I can do this and
Speaker 1: actually make a living. You know. That was the first
Speaker 1: time I didn't have a side job, you know, the
Speaker 1: first time I was just living on on acting, which
Speaker 1: I think every actor remembers, you know, that first year
Speaker 1: where oh my gosh, I just survived off of what
Speaker 1: I was making as an actor. So that that was
Speaker 1: a really cool moment. And the cool thing about that
Speaker 1: show the Writer's Room. In the first season that show,
Speaker 1: of like the ten writers, I think eight or nine
Speaker 1: of them have now been showrunners and creators, which is
Speaker 1: just insane, you know, like they were all such talented writers,
Speaker 1: and so much credit to our showrunners, who were Julie
Speaker 1: Pleck and Michael Narducci for like hand picking this group
Speaker 1: of people that were just insanely talented, and a lot
Speaker 1: of them it was, you know, their first or second
Speaker 1: job in a writer's room, and all of these people
Speaker 1: were brilliant. So I knew that those scripts I was getting,
Speaker 1: I was like, this is this is good, Like this
Speaker 1: is impressive. You know, it's a it's a CW vampire show,
Speaker 1: but like, this is really really good. Stuff, and it
Speaker 1: made me want to like dive in even further. You know,
Speaker 1: it made me want to take it really seriously and
Speaker 1: really kind of dig into the into the work and
Speaker 1: well and behold, that's how I got yellow jackets. So
Speaker 1: you know, things like that tend to tend to work out.
Speaker 1: You played a gay character Josh on television before gay
Speaker 1: marriage was even legalized. Yeah, did you feel any sort
Speaker 1: of responsibility about that? Was there already added pressure on
Speaker 1: that it was a positive representation? Yes, yes, very very positive.
Speaker 1: I actually I turned down the audition, uh twice before
Speaker 1: I before I went in and actually did it because
Speaker 1: and this was this was my own you know, stupid
Speaker 1: bias and prejudice at the time. But for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I was reading the sides and I was reading the breakdown,
Speaker 1: and I had it in my head that they wanted
Speaker 1: kind of a flamboyance, you know, very two dimensional gay
Speaker 1: character for this role. And I thought, well, A, that's
Speaker 1: not something I want to play, and b that's just
Speaker 1: not that's not me, you know, like I'm somebody's gonna
Speaker 1: be able to pull that off much better than I can,
Speaker 1: you know. And once they told me, you know, no,
Speaker 1: this the whole point of this gay character is he
Speaker 1: is a normal college guy. He's got a whole lot
Speaker 1: of stuff going on, and oh yeah, he had to
Speaker 1: be gay as well. And I thought, well, that's cool,
Speaker 1: Like that's that's something that you don't see on TV.
Speaker 1: I mean, this was twenty thirteen, and you didn't see
Speaker 1: that on TV a whole lot. You know. It was
Speaker 1: like you would have token characters that were diverse or minorities,
Speaker 1: whether it was you know, sexuality, ethnicity, you know, all
Speaker 1: of that kind of stuff. And so I thought, okay, well,
Speaker 1: here's a chance to take a character and having be
Speaker 1: entirely three dimensional and his sexuality is just one of
Speaker 1: his personality traits, you know, as as our humans. So
Speaker 1: that was it was like a really well rounded, three
Speaker 1: dimensional character, and I thought, this is a really cool opportunity.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I did. I felt a huge responsibility to
Speaker 1: to kind of make the character whole, you know, and
Speaker 1: not just have it be hey, here's our gay character
Speaker 1: on the show. Yeah, we've seen that so often, and
Speaker 1: it's it's terrible. It's interesting because you know, it's very
Speaker 1: similar in a way to you know, my long conversations
Speaker 1: with Oscar Nunez who played Oscar Martinez on the Office,
Speaker 1: and that was you know, that's the that's the thing
Speaker 1: that he talks about all the time as well, which
Speaker 1: I mean specifically for his character. You know, he was
Speaker 1: two seasons in before he knew that his character was gay, right,
Speaker 1: And he talks about having this conversation his head which
Speaker 1: was like how does this change me? How does this
Speaker 1: change my performance? And ultimately landing on the genius of it,
Speaker 1: which was like, well nothing, right, idiot. This is just
Speaker 1: a part of who he is and there is specifically
Speaker 1: nothing yet that's that's right, right, that's right. So I um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I find that very interesting. Um So, when your
Speaker 1: time on The Originals ends fairly quickly, you get cast
Speaker 1: in Roswell, New Mexico, also on the CW. Now do
Speaker 1: you feel like there was a connection there between Queen,
Speaker 1: your work on The Originals and then moving on to
Speaker 1: another show there on the CW. Yeah, well there was.
Speaker 1: And what's funny is timeline was Roswell actually came after
Speaker 1: Yellow Jackets. It's it's it was a really weird So.
Speaker 1: So here's what happened. I'm about to blow your mind. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: so The Originals ends in twenty and eighteen, I kind
Speaker 1: of bounced around and and you know, do you know
Speaker 1: a handful of guest stars and stuff, And again I
Speaker 1: go through one of those periods where I'm like, well, shit,
Speaker 1: maybe I just got lucky with you know, with that
Speaker 1: one show. And that was that was it for me.
Speaker 1: You know, it isn't it weird like the mind games
Speaker 1: that we would play ourselves, like, you know, I just
Speaker 1: worked for five years, but it's probably never gonna happen again.
Speaker 1: So then in two nineteen and like the fall of
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, the script for Yellow Jackets came into my
Speaker 1: inbox and Roswell had already been on the season for
Speaker 1: like or been on the air for like one season,
Speaker 1: I think at this point. Um Roswell was created by
Speaker 1: one of our writers in that first season of The
Speaker 1: Originals named Karina Fensium, and I was very close with her,
Speaker 1: and I auditioned for I auditioned for a role in Roswell,
Speaker 1: didn't get it. And then Yellow Jackets came along. And
Speaker 1: when the script came into my inbox and I and
Speaker 1: I read it, I knew it was gonna be good
Speaker 1: because Ashley and Bart wrote it. But I didn't know
Speaker 1: it was gonna be that good. I read it and
Speaker 1: was I think every every actor on the show says
Speaker 1: the same thing. It was one of, if not the
Speaker 1: best pilot I had ever read. It was mind blowing.
Speaker 1: So I auditioned for that, got that, and we filmed
Speaker 1: the pilot of Yellow Jackets at the end of twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: like November and December of twenty nineteen. Oh wow. And
Speaker 1: I remember rapping on the pilot and we were all
Speaker 1: kind of curious, like, you know, because this was showtime.
Speaker 1: I had never done a you know, like a premium
Speaker 1: kind of network show like that, and so we were
Speaker 1: all kind of asking, you know, what's what's the timeline here?
Speaker 1: And the answer we got was, oh, by you know,
Speaker 1: by March or so maybe April. We'll have a pickup
Speaker 1: decision March or April of twenty twenty. Right, so of
Speaker 1: course we all know what happens. Shit hits the fan, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, COVID attacks, the entire industry shuts down. And
Speaker 1: what's so funny is I remember signing the con track
Speaker 1: for that for that, for that pilot, and they had
Speaker 1: a twelvemonth option on all of the actors, and I
Speaker 1: had never signed a contract that had that long of
Speaker 1: an option. And I remember asking my reps at the time,
Speaker 1: I said, I said, is this normal, like a whole year,
Speaker 1: like they owned me for a whole year, And they said, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, for for like the kind of premium level
Speaker 1: you know, networks and stuff. This is what they do.
Speaker 1: But don't worry, like that's never you know, they're never
Speaker 1: gonna take a whole year to decide whether they pick
Speaker 1: the show up, like it'll be it'll be pretty quick,
Speaker 1: oh man. Um, So we essentially spent all of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty just wondering if the show was going to get
Speaker 1: picked up, you know, and I would have frequent conversations
Speaker 1: with with Ashley and Barred about you know, what's what's
Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes, what's and you know, nobody knew.
Speaker 1: I mean you remember, it was like networks were kind
Speaker 1: of going through and nobody knew what the future of
Speaker 1: the business was. I remember thinking, like a robot's just
Speaker 1: going to take over, like it's our act. Are they
Speaker 1: just gonna do animation you know from here on out
Speaker 1: and there's not gonna be any live action stuff. And
Speaker 1: in the meantime, you know, all of the brilliant minds
Speaker 1: in the industry kind of formed that that like think
Speaker 1: tank almost where it was like, how do we get
Speaker 1: things back? You know, how do we get back onto
Speaker 1: a set with the proper protocols and and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, And by like by like July, August, September,
Speaker 1: they had kind of started to figure it out, and
Speaker 1: so things were starting to get back to production in
Speaker 1: like September October of twenty twenty, and Roswall was going
Speaker 1: back to work and there was like a one season
Speaker 1: role on that show and they called me and said, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, do you want to play this role? Because
Speaker 1: I've worked with them for so long. It was Karena
Speaker 1: Mackenzie and Chris Hollier, another writer on The Originals, and
Speaker 1: I said, yes, I would love to, but I don't
Speaker 1: know what the hell is happening with Yellowjackets, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know if we're getting picked up. So we had
Speaker 1: to do a whole back and forth or showtime about like, hey,
Speaker 1: what is the deal here? Like is this like I
Speaker 1: have I have an opportunity to go to a full
Speaker 1: season of another show? Is this thing happening or not?
Speaker 1: And so I was able to do the full season
Speaker 1: of Roswell from like October twenty nineteen to April of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, and then I had three days from
Speaker 1: when I Roswell to drive from Santa Fe, New Mexico
Speaker 1: to Vancouver, Canada to start Yellow Jackets. So, um, it was.
Speaker 1: It was intense, but I was able to squeeze them
Speaker 1: both in and I'm very grateful. It was just one
Speaker 1: of those magical things where the timing just kind of
Speaker 1: worked out absolutely perfectly, which doesn't happen all that often
Speaker 1: in this business. As you know. No, that's that's awesome. Uh.
Speaker 1: Yellow Jackets obviously one of the most talked about shows
Speaker 1: last year. I loved it. So this was though a
Speaker 1: straight audition, like you you got an audition for it, Okay,
Speaker 1: it was, and it was many rounds. It was many
Speaker 1: rounds of auditions as well. Um, yeah, they put me through.
Speaker 1: They put me through the ringer for sure. Well it
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I know, I know a lot of
Speaker 1: things could be faked. Um, there are things on that
Speaker 1: show that can that cannot. It is incredibly physically grueling,
Speaker 1: I imagine psychologically grueling as well. A lot of stuff
Speaker 1: taking place outdoors in the woods in Vancouver. How was
Speaker 1: that the process of shooting? Is that the most difficult
Speaker 1: show just physically and emotionally that you've done to that
Speaker 1: to this point. Yeah, yeah, far and away, Far and
Speaker 1: away it was, and that there were a lot of
Speaker 1: different elements that went into it. And I'll give it's
Speaker 1: not really a spoiler because it happens so early on,
Speaker 1: but I think the thing you're alluding to is is
Speaker 1: my my leg getting getting chopped off, which happens very
Speaker 1: very early on in the show. So um, not not
Speaker 1: too much of a spoiler. And you know what, if
Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, that should make you want to
Speaker 1: go watch it even more, right, But yeah, And they
Speaker 1: had told me that was that that was going to happen,
Speaker 1: that I was gonna you know, that I was going
Speaker 1: to be losing a leg, and you know immediately again
Speaker 1: it comes back to very similar with with the Originals,
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh wow, so now I'm playing an
Speaker 1: amptyte And I felt an incredible amount of responsibility there,
Speaker 1: you know, to really research and figure out how do
Speaker 1: I how do I do this? You know, as as
Speaker 1: a non disabled person, how do I how do I
Speaker 1: often represent somebody who has suffered through a traumatic amputation
Speaker 1: like this. So I did a ton of research, you know, physically,
Speaker 1: psychologically what a person goes through, just leading up to it.
Speaker 1: And then we get to Vancouver and the other element
Speaker 1: of this, yes, you mentioned all of it right. We
Speaker 1: were outside in the woods. We were coming in every day,
Speaker 1: and we were putting on our costumes that were dirty
Speaker 1: and crusty and smelly that they didn't wash intentionally because
Speaker 1: we were stranded out in the wilderness and we did
Speaker 1: not have laundry machines. You know, it was just gross.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were rolling around in the dirt, it
Speaker 1: was hot. And then the other element to all of
Speaker 1: this was the border between the Canada and the US
Speaker 1: was closed for most of twenty twenty one. So we
Speaker 1: got there and we couldn't leave. We were stuck. We
Speaker 1: couldn't come back home, we couldn't visit our friends or family,
Speaker 1: nobody could come visit us, and so that was like
Speaker 1: a whole other element that just I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: was anticipating. I think we thought that this was, you know,
Speaker 1: the COVID thing was going to be kind of over
Speaker 1: by then. But we spent almost that entire first season
Speaker 1: with nobody but each other. It was very much like
Speaker 1: life imitating art, you know, we were we were stranded
Speaker 1: there together. And so the silver lining I guess with
Speaker 1: all of it is that because we only had each other,
Speaker 1: it really did create this this very strong bond and
Speaker 1: a lot of chemistry amongst the cast for that first season,
Speaker 1: which which I think was kind of reflected, you know,
Speaker 1: on screen. But it was a strange situation. I mean,
Speaker 1: none of us knew what to do. You know. We
Speaker 1: all went through periods of feeling like we were losing
Speaker 1: our minds. And then of course it's the first season
Speaker 1: of a show, you know, which, as you know, it's
Speaker 1: hard to know if it's going to be good or not,
Speaker 1: Like like, did you know I'm always I'm always curious,
Speaker 1: but like, but I actually, I'll be honest, I didn't
Speaker 1: think that. There were times when I thought, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: like this is going to be good, and I knew
Speaker 1: that the scripts that we were getting were good, but
Speaker 1: there was so much self doubt. All of us went
Speaker 1: through periods of like, Wow, this show is not going
Speaker 1: to be good, Like this show is not going to
Speaker 1: find an audience. People are not going to like this.
Speaker 1: I remember asking my agents and managers. Like the last
Speaker 1: month or two of filming, I said, start looking for
Speaker 1: something else because this Mike canceled, which just sounds so
Speaker 1: stupid retrospective. But you just don't know. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: always curious with other actors. Did you know that the
Speaker 1: Office was going to be what it was when you
Speaker 1: guys were doing that first season in the first few episodes. No,
Speaker 1: I mean, I knew it was special. But the phrase
Speaker 1: that I always that I remember saying at the time
Speaker 1: was if people give this show a chance, we have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to do something really special. But I you know,
Speaker 1: of course I had no idea, right, I mean, but
Speaker 1: the elements that you bring up, and to give people
Speaker 1: some perspective on this, you were forced to essentially be
Speaker 1: locked in a hotel room for two weeks, is that right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was two weeks. Two weeks. So, folks, you fly
Speaker 1: into the Canada and this is what I was told.
Speaker 1: At first, I thought they locked the door. They don't
Speaker 1: lock the door, but they don't give you a key
Speaker 1: to the room. Is this was this your experience? And
Speaker 1: so if you leave your room, they'll know because you
Speaker 1: won't be able to get back in and on this show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see how that could really help. That's got to
Speaker 1: have created an incredible bond. It did, I mean in
Speaker 1: in great ways, and I mean, you know, there were
Speaker 1: times when we clashed, of course, and would get in
Speaker 1: arguments and hated each other and but but ultimately was
Speaker 1: it really was. But also but for a cast as
Speaker 1: big as we had, I was amazed at how well
Speaker 1: we all got along, like truly, like it could have gone.
Speaker 1: It could have gone very south under those circumstances, and
Speaker 1: it just didn't. Like we all just got along very
Speaker 1: very well. And you know, it's funny the quarantine thing.
Speaker 1: I realized afterwards that I did it incorrectly. I'm probably
Speaker 1: like about to admit to a crime here that they
Speaker 1: may come and like prosecute me for. But like the
Speaker 1: two elements that you mentioned, one you only had to
Speaker 1: do the hotel if you flew into the country, and
Speaker 1: I drove into the country, so I got to go
Speaker 1: straight to my condo that I had rented for like
Speaker 1: the next six months and quarantine there, which which most
Speaker 1: of the people did. But they would have to do
Speaker 1: three days in a hotel to start, and then they
Speaker 1: got to transfer to their to their you know, condo
Speaker 1: or apartment or whatever they were renting. Okay, the second
Speaker 1: thing I screwed up was I didn't realize you weren't
Speaker 1: literally literally were not allowed to walk out your front door.
Speaker 1: I thought you like couldn't leave and go out on
Speaker 1: the street. So every day I was like going down
Speaker 1: to get food deliveries. I would like exercise by like
Speaker 1: running up and down the stairwell in the building, and
Speaker 1: then like I would like run up the stairwell and
Speaker 1: then take the elevator back down and like run up
Speaker 1: and again and get out of quarantine. And like I'm
Speaker 1: talking all my cast mates who looked like they have
Speaker 1: just like you know, spent two weeks in the hole
Speaker 1: in Shawshank Redemption. They're like, oh my god, that was brutal.
Speaker 1: You know. One person couldn't get food delivered. She was
Speaker 1: living on like rice that was like left over from
Speaker 1: the previous tenants and the thing. And I'm like, I
Speaker 1: didn't think it was that bad. Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was like I exercised a lot. I was running
Speaker 1: up and down the stairs. I got food delivered. I
Speaker 1: came down and said, what's upthing, And they're like, what's
Speaker 1: we got yellow caution tape taped over our doors so
Speaker 1: we couldn't leave, and I was like, oh, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh I did this very very incorrectly. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: sorry Canada, Sorry Canada. Well good for you, though, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta do what you get. Not a
Speaker 1: crime if you don't get caught. And I think the
Speaker 1: session of limitations as well as well passed. Yeah, um dude, uh,
Speaker 1: season two coming out very soon here March twenty six.
Speaker 1: You probably can't give me any spoilers, but what happens? Um? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you want me to tell you how it ends, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you. I want to tell you who dies
Speaker 1: and who lives. To not tell anybody, all right, I
Speaker 1: won't tell anybody, Okay, great? Um, No, it's uh. It
Speaker 1: can be a very tall order to come back for
Speaker 1: a second season after you've done a first season of
Speaker 1: a show that has the kind of success that that
Speaker 1: we were able to find, and we were lucky enough
Speaker 1: to find. Um. And I think the unique thing about
Speaker 1: our show it was it was a hit with both
Speaker 1: you know, kind of critics and audiences. So I think
Speaker 1: we all felt the weight of those expectations, you know,
Speaker 1: throughout the entire the entire season. I think that the
Speaker 1: writers and the creators did an incredible job of pushing
Speaker 1: the envelope just far enough so that it's not exactly
Speaker 1: the same as season one, you know, like it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a new vibe. It's even crazier, it's even more intense,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't jump the shark. You know, it's all
Speaker 1: rooted in in the base of this story and who
Speaker 1: these people are. It's just putting these people in the
Speaker 1: most dire of circumstances and seeing how they react and
Speaker 1: and you know, the result is pretty shocking. It's insane.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's actually it's actually insane. Even even filming it,
Speaker 1: there were moments when we were like, are we really
Speaker 1: are we really doing? Like are we really doing this?
Speaker 1: But are we sure about this? And that's what you
Speaker 1: call a tease the gentlemen, Stephen, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing our blossoming new friendship down
Speaker 1: in the great state of Texas. March twenty six, Yellow
Speaker 1: Jackets comes back. I can't wait. Although this is what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna get the advanced tapes. Oh you
Speaker 1: are that's no, that's my goal. Now we don't actually
Speaker 1: give the tapes out. We have to lock you in
Speaker 1: a room and you're allowed to view them, and then
Speaker 1: we use one of those little men in black flashy
Speaker 1: things on you before you leave. Before you leave the room, well,
Speaker 1: then I can see it twice. Ye yeah uh, Stephen,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I'll see you soon. Thank you, Brian.
Speaker 1: This was so much fun. I cannot wait to explore
Speaker 1: our best friendship in Austin, Texas. That sounds great. Were
Speaker 1: as some boots We'll do. Steven, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining me today. You're the greatest. I cannot wait
Speaker 1: for this next season of Yellow Jackets, coming March twenty sixth.
Speaker 1: Buzz buzz buzz. Though I am a little mad, you
Speaker 1: will give me no spoilers. Listeners, make sure to watch
Speaker 1: the show and then come back here next week for
Speaker 1: another episode of Off the Beat. The guest well yeah,
Speaker 1: there will be one. Off the Beat is hosted an
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes,
Speaker 1: Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan,
Speaker 1: Papa Zachary and our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme
Speaker 1: song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and only
Speaker 1: Creed