WEBVTT - Short Stuff: 1561 Celestial Event

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's Chuck, and we're sitting in for Jerry, who would

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<v Speaker 1>be sitting in for Dave. And if that's confusing, it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter because that has nothing to do with this episode.

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<v Speaker 1>On the fifteen sixty one celestial Phenomenon of Nuremberg.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, Nuremberg, Germany.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course, on April fourteenth of that year, there were

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<v Speaker 3>people This is early morning, and there were a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of people around and this happened for over an hour

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<v Speaker 3>where they looked up in the sky and saw what

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<v Speaker 3>looked like an aerial battle between airships of unknown origin.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess it's the best way you could say it.

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<v Speaker 3>There were different colors, there were different shapes, there were

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<v Speaker 3>squares and globes and crescents, and eventually the ships crashed

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<v Speaker 3>outside of town and dissolved into smoke. And a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of people saw this, and a lot of people who

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<v Speaker 3>weren't just like silly Rubes, right.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't like Rusty and Eugene were out drinking that

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<v Speaker 1>night who saw it and came back and told everybody meet.

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<v Speaker 2>Other people doing their thing in the morning, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And we don't know how many we just know, quote

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of men and women. And then after all that,

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<v Speaker 1>something like a black spear appeared in the sky too,

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<v Speaker 1>So this is a big deal. You can imagine. We

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<v Speaker 1>know about it because there was a broadsheet that was

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<v Speaker 1>published recording it or documenting it. There's a publisher named

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<v Speaker 1>Hans Glazer, and he published an einblot Druk. Did I

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<v Speaker 1>say that right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, which is a type of broadsheet that has a

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<v Speaker 1>headline in illustration, usually a woodcut, and then you know

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<v Speaker 1>an account of what happened. And so there's this famous

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<v Speaker 1>ein blot Duke of the fifteen sixty one celestial phenomenon

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<v Speaker 1>in Nuremberg that Hans Hans Glazer made. And if you've

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<v Speaker 1>even remotely heard of this, I'll bet you've seen his

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<v Speaker 1>famous woodcut from it. It's quite lovely.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I love a woodcut. We both love woodcuts.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a good woodcut is something that agreed.

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<v Speaker 3>So now we look back and say, like, hey, these

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<v Speaker 3>people saw this is like one of the first UFO encounters.

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<v Speaker 3>They didn't talk of such things back then, so of

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<v Speaker 3>course they didn't talk about it that way. But it

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<v Speaker 3>was not as it turns out an isolated incident. Even

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<v Speaker 3>at the time, there were apparently a lot of sort

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<v Speaker 3>of sightings like this at the time where it looked

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<v Speaker 3>like airship battles were going on. So if you lived

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<v Speaker 3>around that area of the Alpine sort of Scandinavian area

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<v Speaker 3>at the time, between like a nine year period or so,

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<v Speaker 3>there were four hundred of these broadsheets, So it was

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<v Speaker 3>like a hot thing, a hot topic.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, people were nuts for it, right. So this was

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<v Speaker 1>during the time where Austria, Switzerland, Germany some other countries,

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<v Speaker 1>and Nuremberg is in Germany. Of course they were part

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<v Speaker 1>of the Holy Roman Empire, and the Holy Roman Empire

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<v Speaker 1>was ruled by an emperor and the pope, so therefore

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<v Speaker 1>it was a pretty Catholic empire. And at the time

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<v Speaker 1>of this event in Nuremberg the Reformations going on. So

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<v Speaker 1>this is a really tumultuous time that was kicked off

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<v Speaker 1>by Martin Luther, and during the Reformation era there was

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of religious fervor. There was a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>emphasis on end times. So when people saw things like

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<v Speaker 1>these aerial battles in the sky, they're like, this is

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<v Speaker 1>clearly a sign from God. We don't know what it means,

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<v Speaker 1>but what it's ultimately telling us is that we're doomed

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<v Speaker 1>unless we repent our in mend our ways.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right.

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<v Speaker 3>So just to sort of reiterate, they did not call

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<v Speaker 3>these UFOs. That's an US thing. And maybe we'll take

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<v Speaker 3>that break and we will come back right after this

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<v Speaker 3>and again once more.

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<v Speaker 2>As why.

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<v Speaker 3>S K tough?

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<v Speaker 1>You should know? Okay, hey, Chuck, So if, like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>this fifteen sixty one celestial event over Nuremberg was one

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<v Speaker 1>of hundreds in this era, this era of the trend

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<v Speaker 1>of seeing aerial battles in the sky, why is that

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<v Speaker 1>the one we're talking about? And there's actually a really

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<v Speaker 1>good explanation why. The reason why is because this was

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<v Speaker 1>a forgotten event, because again it just got mixed in

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<v Speaker 1>with all the others. It was a forgotten event in

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<v Speaker 1>history largely that was plucked out of obscurity to be

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<v Speaker 1>used as an example in a book about flying saucers,

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<v Speaker 1>or actually the mythology we create around things like flying

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<v Speaker 1>saucers by none other than psychoanalyst Carl Jung. And because

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<v Speaker 1>this one event was plucked from all the other ones

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<v Speaker 1>that he could have used, it came to seem to

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<v Speaker 1>us people living today as a singular event, like nothing

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<v Speaker 1>like this had ever happened before, right, Yeah, so it

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<v Speaker 1>loses its context in that sense. And then eventually over

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<v Speaker 1>time since nineteen fifty eight and that book came out,

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<v Speaker 1>it was stripped further of its context that Carl Jung

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<v Speaker 1>was using this as an example of people coming up

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<v Speaker 1>with their own mythologies about something they didn't understand, like

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<v Speaker 1>we do with UFOs. And so this one event that

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<v Speaker 1>happened in Nuremberg in fifteen sixty one that Carl Jung

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<v Speaker 1>put in his book about flying saucers is a he's

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<v Speaker 1>talking about a UFO siding. That's where we landed today

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<v Speaker 1>when we think about the fifteen sixty one celestial phenomenon

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<v Speaker 1>being a UFO.

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<v Speaker 2>Siding, Yeah, aliens basically exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, I think I said in the first

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<v Speaker 3>part that you know, these weren't rubes, there were just

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<v Speaker 3>regular people. It was fifteen sixty one, but like science

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<v Speaker 3>was around a little bit there in some former fashion,

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<v Speaker 3>like less than a decade after this, they figured out,

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<v Speaker 3>like what comments were, that they were spacefaring natural objects,

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<v Speaker 3>So they weren't people sitting around looking at the sky.

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<v Speaker 3>Saying it was like a dragon or something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>No, yeah, they yes, And when you take that into

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<v Speaker 1>account that these weren't just dummies, you can't just be like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a commet obviously, or maybe even a couple

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<v Speaker 1>shooting stars, who knows. If you take that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>easy explanation out of your toolbox, as they put it

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<v Speaker 1>in HR, it becomes much harder to explain what exactly

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<v Speaker 1>they saw. You also have to take into account these

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<v Speaker 1>people had eons of collective awareness and memory of an

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<v Speaker 1>experience with natural phenomenon. So again, it's not going to

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<v Speaker 1>be a comment, it's not going to be a rainbow,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not gonna be something like that. Over time, basically

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<v Speaker 1>three main explanations have been proffered, and that's sun dogs, fireworks,

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<v Speaker 1>and embellishment.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a sun dog is it's not something you see

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<v Speaker 3>every day, but it's not like super super uncommon. Apparently,

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<v Speaker 3>like they're as common or more common than rainbows. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's the kind of thing that happens with on frequency.

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<v Speaker 3>But that's when the sun's reflected by these low angled

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<v Speaker 3>ice crystals up in the air and it triples it.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically where you have two sons on either side, and

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<v Speaker 3>it fits that it's morning because it happens. The sun

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<v Speaker 3>dogs happen when the sun is low on the horizon,

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<v Speaker 3>so that would sort of make sense that it was daybreak. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>The one thing though, is that this happens a lot,

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<v Speaker 3>So if this is kind of thing that or not

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<v Speaker 3>a lot, but with enough frequency that people wouldn't be like,

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<v Speaker 3>oh my god, let's make a woodcut about.

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<v Speaker 1>This, right. One other thing that actually is a mark

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<v Speaker 1>in SunDog's Favors and Explanations, they typically last between fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>and thirty minutes, but as recently as twenty twenty three,

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<v Speaker 1>one in northern China was witnessed that lasted a couple hours.

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<v Speaker 1>So if this thing lasted an hour, it's not like

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<v Speaker 1>a sun dog is ruled out because of the length

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<v Speaker 1>of time. That was one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Another one is that in fifteen forty full twenty plus

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<v Speaker 1>years before this event, a man named Veinocchio Bering Guccio

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<v Speaker 1>published Day la Pyrotechnia, which is the first book from

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<v Speaker 1>Europe at least on how to prepare rockets, including using

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<v Speaker 1>rockets and festivals what we would call fireworks. So the

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<v Speaker 1>question is like, was there somebody in Nurrenberg who had

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<v Speaker 1>gotten hold of this book and was putting on a

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<v Speaker 1>fireworks displayed without telling anybody. And there's actually some of

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<v Speaker 1>the details are like, yeah, that would make sense that

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<v Speaker 1>these things fell out of the sky and fizzled out

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<v Speaker 1>into smoke when they were on the ground.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean it sounds silly at first, but that one

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<v Speaker 3>makes a little more sense to me than even sun

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<v Speaker 3>dogs as far as like maybe creating weird shapes and

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<v Speaker 3>the fizzling out part like you talked about, Like but

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<v Speaker 3>then you're just sort of making a theory about some rogue,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, German that got this book.

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<v Speaker 2>But hey, that's not unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Like on its face it seems unlikely, but when

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<v Speaker 1>you dig in, it's like it's a little meteor for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, like this is something that they probably wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>have seen before, you know, so at least especial that box.

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<v Speaker 1>And then there's embellishment too.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, I mean that's kind of the obvious one

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<v Speaker 3>that maybe I don't know, something happened, Maybe it was

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<v Speaker 3>a sun dog gone wild in a great series of

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<v Speaker 3>videos in the eighties, a SunDog gone Wild in the account,

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<v Speaker 3>and then the woodcutting and that broadsheet. Maybe that's what happened,

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<v Speaker 3>because even it wasn't like the heyday of yellow journalism

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<v Speaker 3>in tabloids, but even very early on in publishing they

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<v Speaker 3>were kind of doing some more sort of selacious stuff

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<v Speaker 3>to get readers because there was competition going on exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So it makes a lot of sense that they might

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<v Speaker 1>have been embellishing no matter what it is. That doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>explain what it is, but that explains probably the account

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<v Speaker 1>of it, right, Yeah, I agreed, So, I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>guess that's it. It was a one of multiple stories

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<v Speaker 1>of something that happened at the time, plucked out of

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<v Speaker 1>obscurity by Carl Jung, stripped of context, turned into a

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<v Speaker 1>UFO sighting that had nothing to do with that by us.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to also thank our listener James Calamara, who's

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<v Speaker 1>written in multiple times to ask for us to do

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<v Speaker 1>this one as far back as twenty twenty one, which

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<v Speaker 1>is four hundred and sixty years after the Nuremberg event. Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty spooky Short stuff is out.

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