1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: there's Chuck, and we're sitting in for Jerry, who would 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: be sitting in for Dave. And if that's confusing, it 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: doesn't matter because that has nothing to do with this episode. 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: On the fifteen sixty one celestial Phenomenon of Nuremberg. 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 2: That's right, Nuremberg, Germany. 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 3: Of course, on April fourteenth of that year, there were 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 3: people This is early morning, and there were a lot 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 3: of people around and this happened for over an hour 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: where they looked up in the sky and saw what 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 3: looked like an aerial battle between airships of unknown origin. 12 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 3: I guess it's the best way you could say it. 13 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 3: There were different colors, there were different shapes, there were 14 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 3: squares and globes and crescents, and eventually the ships crashed 15 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 3: outside of town and dissolved into smoke. And a lot 16 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 3: of people saw this, and a lot of people who 17 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 3: weren't just like silly Rubes, right. 18 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: It wasn't like Rusty and Eugene were out drinking that 19 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: night who saw it and came back and told everybody meet. 20 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 2: Other people doing their thing in the morning, exactly. 21 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: And we don't know how many we just know, quote 22 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: a lot of men and women. And then after all that, 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: something like a black spear appeared in the sky too, 24 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: So this is a big deal. You can imagine. We 25 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: know about it because there was a broadsheet that was 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: published recording it or documenting it. There's a publisher named 27 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: Hans Glazer, and he published an einblot Druk. Did I 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: say that right? 29 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 30 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: Okay, which is a type of broadsheet that has a 31 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: headline in illustration, usually a woodcut, and then you know 32 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: an account of what happened. And so there's this famous 33 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: ein blot Duke of the fifteen sixty one celestial phenomenon 34 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: in Nuremberg that Hans Hans Glazer made. And if you've 35 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: even remotely heard of this, I'll bet you've seen his 36 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: famous woodcut from it. It's quite lovely. 37 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. I love a woodcut. We both love woodcuts. 38 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, a good woodcut is something that agreed. 39 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 3: So now we look back and say, like, hey, these 40 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 3: people saw this is like one of the first UFO encounters. 41 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: They didn't talk of such things back then, so of 42 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 3: course they didn't talk about it that way. But it 43 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 3: was not as it turns out an isolated incident. Even 44 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 3: at the time, there were apparently a lot of sort 45 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 3: of sightings like this at the time where it looked 46 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 3: like airship battles were going on. So if you lived 47 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 3: around that area of the Alpine sort of Scandinavian area 48 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 3: at the time, between like a nine year period or so, 49 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: there were four hundred of these broadsheets, So it was 50 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: like a hot thing, a hot topic. 51 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, people were nuts for it, right. So this was 52 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: during the time where Austria, Switzerland, Germany some other countries, 53 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: and Nuremberg is in Germany. Of course they were part 54 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: of the Holy Roman Empire, and the Holy Roman Empire 55 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: was ruled by an emperor and the pope, so therefore 56 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: it was a pretty Catholic empire. And at the time 57 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: of this event in Nuremberg the Reformations going on. So 58 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: this is a really tumultuous time that was kicked off 59 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: by Martin Luther, and during the Reformation era there was 60 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: a lot of religious fervor. There was a lot of 61 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: emphasis on end times. So when people saw things like 62 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: these aerial battles in the sky, they're like, this is 63 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: clearly a sign from God. We don't know what it means, 64 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: but what it's ultimately telling us is that we're doomed 65 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: unless we repent our in mend our ways. 66 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: That's right. 67 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 3: So just to sort of reiterate, they did not call 68 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: these UFOs. That's an US thing. And maybe we'll take 69 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 3: that break and we will come back right after this 70 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 3: and again once more. 71 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: As why. 72 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 3: S K tough? 73 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: You should know? Okay, hey, Chuck, So if, like you said, 74 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: this fifteen sixty one celestial event over Nuremberg was one 75 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: of hundreds in this era, this era of the trend 76 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: of seeing aerial battles in the sky, why is that 77 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: the one we're talking about? And there's actually a really 78 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: good explanation why. The reason why is because this was 79 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: a forgotten event, because again it just got mixed in 80 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: with all the others. It was a forgotten event in 81 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: history largely that was plucked out of obscurity to be 82 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: used as an example in a book about flying saucers, 83 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: or actually the mythology we create around things like flying 84 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: saucers by none other than psychoanalyst Carl Jung. And because 85 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: this one event was plucked from all the other ones 86 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: that he could have used, it came to seem to 87 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: us people living today as a singular event, like nothing 88 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: like this had ever happened before, right, Yeah, so it 89 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: loses its context in that sense. And then eventually over 90 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: time since nineteen fifty eight and that book came out, 91 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: it was stripped further of its context that Carl Jung 92 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: was using this as an example of people coming up 93 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: with their own mythologies about something they didn't understand, like 94 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: we do with UFOs. And so this one event that 95 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: happened in Nuremberg in fifteen sixty one that Carl Jung 96 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: put in his book about flying saucers is a he's 97 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: talking about a UFO siding. That's where we landed today 98 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: when we think about the fifteen sixty one celestial phenomenon 99 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: being a UFO. 100 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: Siding, Yeah, aliens basically exactly. 101 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 3: But you know, I think I said in the first 102 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: part that you know, these weren't rubes, there were just 103 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: regular people. It was fifteen sixty one, but like science 104 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 3: was around a little bit there in some former fashion, 105 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 3: like less than a decade after this, they figured out, 106 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 3: like what comments were, that they were spacefaring natural objects, 107 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 3: So they weren't people sitting around looking at the sky. 108 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: Saying it was like a dragon or something like that. 109 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: No, yeah, they yes, And when you take that into 110 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: account that these weren't just dummies, you can't just be like, yeah, 111 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: it was a commet obviously, or maybe even a couple 112 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: shooting stars, who knows. If you take that kind of 113 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: easy explanation out of your toolbox, as they put it 114 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: in HR, it becomes much harder to explain what exactly 115 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: they saw. You also have to take into account these 116 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: people had eons of collective awareness and memory of an 117 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: experience with natural phenomenon. So again, it's not going to 118 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: be a comment, it's not going to be a rainbow, 119 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: it's not gonna be something like that. Over time, basically 120 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: three main explanations have been proffered, and that's sun dogs, fireworks, 121 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: and embellishment. 122 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, a sun dog is it's not something you see 123 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: every day, but it's not like super super uncommon. Apparently, 124 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 3: like they're as common or more common than rainbows. So 125 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 3: it's the kind of thing that happens with on frequency. 126 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: But that's when the sun's reflected by these low angled 127 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 3: ice crystals up in the air and it triples it. 128 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 3: Basically where you have two sons on either side, and 129 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: it fits that it's morning because it happens. The sun 130 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 3: dogs happen when the sun is low on the horizon, 131 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: so that would sort of make sense that it was daybreak. Yeah. 132 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: The one thing though, is that this happens a lot, 133 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 3: So if this is kind of thing that or not 134 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 3: a lot, but with enough frequency that people wouldn't be like, 135 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 3: oh my god, let's make a woodcut about. 136 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: This, right. One other thing that actually is a mark 137 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: in SunDog's Favors and Explanations, they typically last between fifteen 138 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: and thirty minutes, but as recently as twenty twenty three, 139 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: one in northern China was witnessed that lasted a couple hours. 140 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: So if this thing lasted an hour, it's not like 141 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: a sun dog is ruled out because of the length 142 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: of time. That was one. 143 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 144 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: Another one is that in fifteen forty full twenty plus 145 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: years before this event, a man named Veinocchio Bering Guccio 146 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: published Day la Pyrotechnia, which is the first book from 147 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: Europe at least on how to prepare rockets, including using 148 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: rockets and festivals what we would call fireworks. So the 149 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: question is like, was there somebody in Nurrenberg who had 150 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: gotten hold of this book and was putting on a 151 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: fireworks displayed without telling anybody. And there's actually some of 152 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: the details are like, yeah, that would make sense that 153 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: these things fell out of the sky and fizzled out 154 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: into smoke when they were on the ground. 155 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 3: I mean it sounds silly at first, but that one 156 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 3: makes a little more sense to me than even sun 157 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 3: dogs as far as like maybe creating weird shapes and 158 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 3: the fizzling out part like you talked about, Like but 159 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: then you're just sort of making a theory about some rogue, 160 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 3: you know, German that got this book. 161 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: But hey, that's not unbelievable. 162 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: Right, Like on its face it seems unlikely, but when 163 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: you dig in, it's like it's a little meteor for sure. 164 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: I mean, like this is something that they probably wouldn't 165 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: have seen before, you know, so at least especial that box. 166 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: And then there's embellishment too. 167 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean that's kind of the obvious one 168 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: that maybe I don't know, something happened, Maybe it was 169 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 3: a sun dog gone wild in a great series of 170 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 3: videos in the eighties, a SunDog gone Wild in the account, 171 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 3: and then the woodcutting and that broadsheet. Maybe that's what happened, 172 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 3: because even it wasn't like the heyday of yellow journalism 173 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 3: in tabloids, but even very early on in publishing they 174 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 3: were kind of doing some more sort of selacious stuff 175 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 3: to get readers because there was competition going on exactly. 176 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: So it makes a lot of sense that they might 177 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: have been embellishing no matter what it is. That doesn't 178 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: explain what it is, but that explains probably the account 179 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: of it, right, Yeah, I agreed, So, I mean, I 180 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: guess that's it. It was a one of multiple stories 181 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: of something that happened at the time, plucked out of 182 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: obscurity by Carl Jung, stripped of context, turned into a 183 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: UFO sighting that had nothing to do with that by us. 184 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: I want to also thank our listener James Calamara, who's 185 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 1: written in multiple times to ask for us to do 186 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: this one as far back as twenty twenty one, which 187 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:16,599 Speaker 1: is four hundred and sixty years after the Nuremberg event. Exactly. 188 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: Pretty spooky Short stuff is out. 189 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 2: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 190 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 3: For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 191 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows