WEBVTT - How Internships Work 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:11.920 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know Fromhouse Stuff Works dot com. Hey, 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.120 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:19.440 Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry and I'm Josh Clark. Uh, 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:22.160 and this is stuff you should Know. Anna turned this 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.279 coffee is too hot. You're fired, even though it don't 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.520 pay you. Yeah, that's pretty much an average monday for 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.400 an intern can be. Man, when I was researching and 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.360 when I was reading this, I was like, Okay, this 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:37.960 is interesting, you know, I like all the movie references. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:42.120 That's great. Um. But then when I did some um 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.319 external research too, I was like, whoa this is This 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:47.919 is like a real social issue that we're facing, right, 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.800 you know, and it's um, it's like the dirty underbelly 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.240 for sure. And it sucks because it seems like there's 0:00:55.240 --> 0:01:01.680 a significant portion of millennials who are just strapped with that, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.040 who are saddled with this is just the way that 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.960 the career paths have kind of gone. And from doing research, 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.520 it's our fault. The gen xers are the first ones 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:12.480 who caved on this, and it just paved the way 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:14.640 for it to be the new normal. Did you ever 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.440 do an internship. No, me neither. And it wasn't like 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:22.679 a like when I was in college seventy five years ago. 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.760 It wasn't uh that big of a thing. Like, of 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.880 course it knew of internships, but like nobody I knew 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.840 did one. No, you were basically like a go getter 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.520 who was just looking to pad your resume a little bit. 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:46.080 Definitely extracurricular. Yeah, it was not super super common, at 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.040 least among the people I knew, and we were all, 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.400 you know, just normal, average, smart college students. It wasn't 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.720 like hung out with the heads by the dumpster. So 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:00.040 I didn't know about internships. Well that's why I I 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.680 didn't know about internship. I'm glad to know that I 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.360 wasn't missing out though my mom's made me steer clearer. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.400 Guys like you I saw, I know, and now we 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:11.720 work together. Fates are intertwined. Um, get this check. I 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.839 saw the statistic between the nineteen eighties and the mid 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.520 two thousand's, the number of the percentage of college graduates 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:25.960 who've done an internship went from between win and win 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:32.120 and the mid two thousands. That's crazy. That underscores what 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.000 we were just saying, which is why I threw that 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.959 out there, you have data to back it up. Yeah, 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:41.920 and data, by the way, is plural. Okay, I just 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.640 want to make sure that that's set out. So like 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:46.560 if I stood up in front of my sympose um 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:48.760 and say I have a lot of datas for this, 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.920 I might get left off stage. What symposium are you 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.280 talking to? The data's symposium? I want to be there, 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:01.440 all right, I'll put you on the list. Okay, some pretzels. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.960 So this article is just so cute because it opens 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.280 with a episode of Friends, which I don't even remember, 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.920 and I've seen all those, but apparently Chandler got an 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:16.880 internship and it led to wacky hi jinks. Imagine that, right, 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.919 which is also the plot of every other intern movie 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.280 or film ever. Yeah, there's one with Robert de Niro 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.000 and and Hathaway didn't see it neither. There's one with 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.639 Owen Wilson and Vince Vaughan. I saw just a little bit, 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.040 just enough of that to know I didn't want to 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.280 see it. That was shot here in Atlanta, though. Okay, 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.760 so you saw it being filmed and you're like you 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.480 and everybody on set heard you. Yeah it was I 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.440 think that it was at Google, like real Google, not 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.600 made up Google like. I saw a guy the other 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.920 day I meant to tell you this, and um, what 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.800 city were we just in? Not Lawrence, Kansas but Austin, Texas. 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.440 And by the way, thank you to those cities and 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.080 all the others on this most recent to yeah, which 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.000 we're winding up here in New York in Atlanta soon, 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.880 but big shout outs to Lawrence, Kansas especially, love that place. Right. 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:10.200 But anyway, I was in Austin and there was a 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:17.280 group of tech dudes, um in Austin, Yeah, uh, at 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.200 this restaurant that I was at, having drinks, and one 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.200 of them, the most obnoxious of of the lot, had 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:28.400 a Hoolie shirt on. And Hooly is the fake Google 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:33.839 type company from oh from what's it called Silicon Valley 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.760 the TV show. So he had a hoolie shirt and 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:38.480 he was the one leading with all the bad jokes 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.840 and I wanted to punch him in the face. I'll 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.479 Betty listens to the show too, So you've really made 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:46.560 your point here. Yeah, you know, if you were in 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.359 Austin then you had the Hooly shirt, you, sir, have 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.640 a punch coming. Yeah, some that guy's listening, he's like, well, 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:59.919 it's not me. My jokes rock Alright, So here's another 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.640 stat for you. Um, the two thousand sixteen survey from 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:08.760 the National Association of Colleges and Employers in a c E. 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.839 They said more than seventy And this is where it 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.760 gets a little like, this is actually good information because 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.920 the whole big question is our internships worth doing? Uh? 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.520 And they found that more than seventy paid internships did 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.279 lead to job offers. So that's pretty good. That's a 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.839 good number right there. I actually saw one from two 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.520 thousand thirteen and it was at six, so there's an 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.159 actual getting better. Yeah, it is getting better, which is 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:42.520 pretty interesting because that means that it's it's it's becoming 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.320 I guess, a legitimate career path then, rather than just 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.279 a fake career path. Right. But that is to point 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:53.440 out very clearly paid internships, paid unpaid internships, which will 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:58.400 get to which is basically to me, very un ethical, 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.120 illegal thing to do. Illegal. Depending on how you're doing it, 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.160 you can get away with it, but I think completely unethical. 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:10.600 You should always pay people to work, um, not exposure. Yeah, exactly. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:15.920 If fewer than forty percent got job offers, from unpaid internships, 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.880 and that is not too far above the thirty six 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.960 point five percent of people who get a job offer 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.479 with no internship at all. Yes, so that two more 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.279 two thirteen saw that climb to because it was thirty 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:35.080 seven percent got a job offer versus thirty front who 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.640 hadn't intern So it does seem to be having an 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.640 impact at least between two thousand thirteen and two thousand 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:46.200 and sixteen, it's been changing. And with unpaid internships in particular, 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.560 I've seen that, um there is like a whole mentality 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:56.080 among millennials entering the workforce who are saying, you know what, 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.880 I would rather take an unpaid internship in the field 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.440 that I want to get into in the hopes of 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.520 getting a good job in that field than to start 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.800 down a different path in another field that I'm not 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.920 feeling so hot about and end up getting trapped in there. 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:17.480 And apparently they are um so dedicated to this idea 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.160 that people are starting to take like two three four 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.720 unpaid internships in their field in the hopes of making 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.840 this work. Part of the problem is is that means 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.560 that you're you're you're feeding the gig economy because you're 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.680 doing whatever side hustle you can, which a man, I 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.960 hate that term so much. Um, Yeah, to pay the 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.840 bills because it just makes it so cool. It's like, no, 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.880 you're being exploited. That's what it is. A side hustle. 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:53.360 It's exploitation. Okay, So you're having to carry out gigs 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.200 to to make ends meet, or you have some other, um, 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.560 you know, a low paying job that is not so 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.920 demanding that you can't also do your internship at the 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.240 same time for parents who will just float you. Right, 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.040 that's a big one too. And so if this is 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:11.880 the new career path where you work unpaid internships to 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.320 three four of them before you finally get a paying 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:19.560 job and your chosen field, and it makes you, um, 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.560 makes you rely on say your parents or whatever. For 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.720 people who can't rely on their parents, that means that 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.560 that path to chosen career is closed to them. They 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.040 have to just start working immediately. And that that means 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.760 that it's automatically unfair. So exploitation is leading to unfairness 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.320 in in even more sinister ways as well. Yeah, and 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.960 that's something that you know what, because of my privilege, 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.960 I never thought about. But if you're out there saying, well, 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:48.400 what's a big deal if I want to take an 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.640 unpaid internship and my parents gonna float me to do that, 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.200 and I get the experience and I get a job, Like, 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:59.040 who am I hurting? And you're screwing up the economy 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.800 and your care getting an unfair system for people that 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.679 cannot afford to do so you're part of the problem. 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.480 And and it's not just you millennials. Calm down, Calm down. 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.600 This is this has always been the case with internships, 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:19.960 especially unpaid internships. But internships typically come from connections. So 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:24.400 the more connected you are or your parents are, meaning 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:29.040 the wealthier they are, UM, the the the higher chance 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:33.079 you have of getting a plumb internship and so advancing 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.240 along the way. So much so that I was reading 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.360 this really good article I would recommend to everybody. UM 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:43.160 it's called the Dream Hoarders, How America's Top perpetuates inequality, 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.920 And it was basically saying that you anytime you use 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:53.040 your UM outside channel connections, outside of formal networks, your 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.200 connections to get your kid or your nephew or whoever 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:01.080 UM a an internship, you are gaming this system and 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:05.120 making sure that inequality. It just perpetuates on and on 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.599 and on. Yeah, cronyism, that's what it's called. Yeah, I 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:11.960 guess so. And nepotism, both both theisms. So let's look 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.440 a little bit about the history of the intern. Um. 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.440 You need not look any further than the medical community 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.880 as to where that comes from, that term, at least 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:26.720 because post w W one, Uh, there was a a 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.200 consensus that, like, hey, you went to medical school. That 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.680 was fine. You poked around some dead bodies, you maybe 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.520 cut a few open, and that's great, you know a lot, 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.160 But we don't fully feel great about just releasing you 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.840 into the world as a doctor just yet. Maybe you 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:47.360 should tag along and work as an apprentice of sorts, 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.880 as a physician in training in a hospital or a 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.920 physician's office or whatever, you know, wherever however you're gonna 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.400 do this, maybe you should do that. And we're gonna 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.280 call them interns. And that's an internship. Uh. They been 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.760 doing this for for centuries and centuries. There have been 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:08.760 apprentices where you would learn about a trade, uh, and 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.440 then later when when politics came around, um, you could 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.920 be an apprentice to a politician and learn about government 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:20.760 jobs and such. But the word intern really comes from medicine. 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:26.640 You could be a sorcerer's apprentice to that. So your 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:32.240 parents would float you, right, Mickey mass his parents were loaded. Um. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:36.880 At some point, though, some companies started to say, Hey, 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.360 I got a great idea. We can actually kind of 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:43.240 formalize this informal thing of like, hey, can you get 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:47.439 um my cousin Biff's kid on this summer as an 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:52.079 intern at your company or at your law firm or whatever. Um, look, 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:56.440 we could formalize it by using our connections with other 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:01.920 prestigious universities. So prestigious company, meet prestigious university, and um, 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.480 we will. We want some of your students to come 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.440 work here for us for free, for free. We just 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.240 want to make sure that's clear. And in return, why 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.760 don't you give them like college credit for it? How 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:18.080 about that? And that's when the internship at the time 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.320 it was called a co op, but that's when it 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.000 really started to develop and spread and catch on. And 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.120 I think the earliest one was something like nineteen o 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:31.400 nine at um Northeastern University, which sounds made up so 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.440 like from a Jeremy Piven movie or something like that. 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.960 But it wasn't until the sixties that it really started 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.440 to catch on. Yeah, it sort of started and then 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.320 took a bit of a dive in the nineteen sixties, 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.960 seventies and obviously eighties and beyond from your stat But again, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.440 as we said, like even even as we're saying like 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.480 caught on, like you were not and you were not 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.319 in the norm if you got an internship in college, 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.800 it was still unusual. But between seventy and eighty three, 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:02.120 the number of university's offering these co ops or internships 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.360 I went from two hundred to a thousand, so a 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.640 big increase to be sure. Uh, And some people still 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.880 say co op, although they're probably like in their seventies. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:17.880 If they're saying that, all right, then trying to sign hip, um, well, 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:19.800 and there's a bit of a difference actually co ops. 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.320 I think usually you would just stop going to school 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.199 and take a full time job for a little bit, 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:28.679 like up to a year. It's almost like a work abroad, 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.760 but you don't leave. I guess you could leave, whereas 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.040 internships usually, like you said, it's like a summer thing 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.000 or I'm going to take a semester off and do 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.360 this kind of kind of deal. Right, is that right? 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:44.880 I believe so so, um, well, let's take a break, man, 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.240 and we'll come back and talk a little bit about 0:13:47.960 --> 0:14:00.440 whether not internships are really necessary right after this. Yeah, 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:16.439 all right, So under the banner of this article, do 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:21.360 we need internships? Uh? They can be super useful. Here's 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.000 my take on it. If you if you're going for 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.440 a science based job in the STEM field, if you 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.080 want to be a chemist or a biotechnologist or a 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.680 neuroscientist or something, Uh, you want to work in AI 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:40.640 data analysis, you might benefit from an pretty well from 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.560 doing an internship. Uh. The same goes with like psychology, 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.920 political science, economics, a lot of those fields. It can 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.200 be a good way to get your foot in the 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:54.040 door and really learn as like a research in turn 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.360 or a laboratory intern Yeah, because I mean when you 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.280 when you enter profession, there's a lot of stuff that 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.680 are really peculiar to that. Profession has certain jargon. People 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.200 tend to work in certain types of groups, They use 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.880 certain types of software and you're making good connections they use, right, 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.640 they use certain types of um of like equipment, that 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.680 kind of stuff, and so like through a formal internship, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:24.080 a real internship, you can um you can learn quite 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.400 a bit and a lot, so much so that, um, 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.920 even people who are generally against unpaid internships would say, 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.200 if that's the type of internship you're talking about, then 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.640 then yes, technically an unpaid internship is acceptable because what 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:45.280 you're getting is such um unrecreatable real world experience, like 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:49.200 real job training, that that that that's value, that's worth 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.200 at least as much as you would be paid for 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.240 for doing the whatever work they're having you do as well. Yeah, 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.840 and this is just me talking here, but my sense 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.800 and my experience of talking to people in reading about 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:05.240 this stuff is that internships with like and this is 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.760 not across the board, because we have had interns here 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:09.280 not for stuff you should know, but here and how 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.240 stuff works. Uh And by all accounts, they obviously were 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.560 paid and paid well, but I think in every case 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.440 like really enjoyed their time and learned a lot um. 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.840 But generally, I think media and entertainment companies are where 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:32.200 you're most likely to be uh exploit, exploited and abused 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:37.680 and get less real world training out of your internship. Yeah, 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.320 because the broad statement, but generally true, they're the ones 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.400 that are always getting sued by former interns, which is true. 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.120 We'll talk about it later and and I think one 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.240 of the reasons why is because some of these, especially 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.680 like the stem professions or architecture is a really good example. Um. 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.160 It has such a long history of internships that there's 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.600 like a formal process um that has been established over 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.720 the years. So it would be very obvious to any 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:09.480 intern very quickly if they were being exploited instead of 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.480 actually being trained in the field that they're looking to 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.919 go into. Ye, you're probably You're probably not gonna go 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.320 to a science laboratory and have them say, hey, I 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.560 need you to take my personal laundry to the cleaners 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.480 after work. Probably not, but you will probably get that 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.919 from a producer, right exactly. Or go, um, sit in 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:32.440 Selena Gomezs front row seats at this concert because she's 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.800 gonna be a little late. Seriously, I've read that one 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:40.520 of the articles. The opening band pretty pretty much they're like, yeah, 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.479 that's why you want to look at it. Look your 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.800 attitude to go You're gonna go places. That's funny. But yes, 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.760 with media companies it's they're kind of like, hey, we 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.040 want that too. So I think that they kind of 0:17:54.160 --> 0:18:00.440 picked up the slack and started um, you know, twisting 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:05.240 what was initially a good thing into something exploitive. Correct, Well, 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.600 what why does Sanita Selena Selena Sanita go manz. What's 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:13.240 her name? Selena? You know, Selena Gomez. Don't like I 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.320 take it to someone famous? But why would she need 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:20.720 someone to hold her seat? I wonder that myself signed seat. 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.960 I took it. You would think so. But let's say 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:25.960 that there's some riff raff who are like, I'm going 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.120 to sit wherever I want. Selena doesn't want to deal 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:31.239 with that. She didn't want to have to come and 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.960 be like, excuse me, this very nice, excuse me, you're 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.960 in my seat. So in turn, you just go sit there. Yeah, 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.240 because she could walk up and be like, intern you 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.399 you can go now? Yeah, you better not fart. I 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.000 would fart all over that seat she had. She had 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.800 the fartiest seat in the joint. It have like those cartoons, 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.480 like green like wisps of air coming off of that. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:58.040 All right, So all getting aside, um, what you want 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.400 to do when you get that internship? Though, if you're 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.080 looking like some people are just looking for experience, some 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.120 people are looking for a job at that company, make 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:10.520 yourself invaluable. Like that's true with whatever, whether it's an 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.840 internship or whether it's your job. Yeah, sure, always make 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.560 yourself invaluable. But what we want is an intern is 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:21.200 for when you leave, for them to go, crap, Sam's gone, 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.000 Like where did Sam go? We had Sam doing all 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.119 this great stuff for us. Sam's the real intern, remember 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:31.080 I know, well I was, you know, reminding everybody else 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.879 I new. Yeah, well, I think people we might have 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.160 said this on the air. Sam who used to send 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:41.080 us our our podcast topic ideas that one summer summer 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.840 of Sam and and was the bat boy in one 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.560 episode of the Softball episode of our short lived TV show. Yeah, 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.720 I ended up writing a letter of recommendation for Sam 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.200 for college. He went there and ended up coming back 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.800 and interning with How Stuff Works this year, and he 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.919 was shoved by nary How Stuff Work staff member. No. 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:00.439 I think Sam had a good time time. He had 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:02.359 a great time, and I could see Sam coming to 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.879 work here full time. Yep. I mean that's not a 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:09.919 job offer Sam. I'm not the decider, but it's one 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.560 of those things like when Sam or any of our interns, 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.000 when they leave, you want people to say, well, what 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.320 do we do now, because that means that they have 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.040 a good chance at coming back and working. You know, 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:24.880 what does this have to do with Sleena Gomez? Though 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:27.879 I don't know because she's probably never an intern, But 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.840 you know who was an intern? Bill Gates? Was he 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:36.840 really where? I don't know? Oprah? Okay, oh you just 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:41.480 got a list, Tom Hanks, Brookshields, Steven Spielberg, Tom Ford, 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:46.520 Spike Lee, tom Ford hunh. Yeah. The fashion industry is 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:50.320 like notorious for exploiting its um. I could see that 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.360 so much so that um, there was a I can't 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:57.080 remember the name of the organization but out of Occupy 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:01.760 Wall Street and they were handing out um buttons at 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.919 Fashion Week that was saying like pay your interns. I 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:10.160 don't think it went over all that well, I said, VENTI, VENTI, Right. 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.359 I wonder how many times that's been screamed? A lot 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:18.439 in a fashion office A lot? Yeah, a fashion office. 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:26.280 Well yeah, fashion office, cow farms. That's my understanding. Um, 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.160 all right, Well, let's talk a little bit more about 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.959 paid versus unpaid and get real with some stats. So 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:33.320 the n A c E that I was telling you 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.280 about earlier in two thousand and sixteen, they did a 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:40.159 Internship and co Op survey report and they said the 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:46.320 hourly wage average for interns undergrad um has been close 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:49.680 to the same for about seven years, at a pretty 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.600 good seventeen dollars and sixty nine cents an hour. That's 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:57.000 not bad for an average for a paid internship. I 0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:59.640 was surprised by that. I have never made that much 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.720 an hour. I wonder what industry is driving that up. 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:06.600 I don't know, because that just doesn't seem that seems 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.800 high to me. Maybe us well, I mean, you were 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:11.840 never paid that because the cost of living was like 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:14.440 a third of what it is now and you were 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.080 at intern age. I think my first job, I was 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:21.159 a bus boy at JJ's Barbecue in Stone Mountain when 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:25.240 I was thirteen, and I think I think it was 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:27.880 like three thirty five or three seventy five an hour 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:33.679 was the minimum wage. Isn't that crazy? That is so low? 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:37.679 That's gross. You're like, I'm thirteen and I live with 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.440 my parents and I can't even live on this. That 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:43.399 was pretty great, Like what thirteen year old was making, 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:45.800 you know, sixty bucks a week. That's a lot for 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:50.440 a thirteen year old. Yeah, in nineteen eighty three, man, 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:54.720 you could have bought a car for sixty bucks in yeah, 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.160 at all the band Hala albums I could buy buying 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.520 doubles just so I can play frisbee with him. Uh. 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:05.239 So that's paid internships. But as we have been saying, um, 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.400 you can get away still with not paying internships. Uh. 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:14.000 There is a six point um bullet point list from 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:18.760 the Fair Labored Uh Fair Labor Standards Act for private 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:23.040 sector for profit businesses. Yeah, because we should point out 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:25.760 that if you're an intern at a nonprofit they have 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.679 no problems with this. Legally, you're just a volunteer, right exactly. Okay, 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:33.639 that's a distinction. Yea good good pointing that out. But 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:38.479 private sector for profit you can technically not paying it. 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:43.000 Or here here are the qualifications to meet for unpaid internship. 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:46.520 Number one is internship is similar to training that would 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:51.160 be given in an educational environment. It's boom right there, 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:54.560 that's all you need right there. Yeah, that's the one 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:57.200 that's not met I think most of the time. What's 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:00.560 another one? Another one is that um that the in 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:03.320 the experience has to be for the benefit of the 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:06.280 intern that's a big one. Oh, yeah, that is a 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:09.399 big one. These are all pretty big. Number three, The 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.520 intern does not displace regular employees. That is big, but 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:16.960 works under close supervision of existing staff. Right, not like, 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:20.760 go make these knockoff Gucci wallets. Well, here's how you 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:22.679 do it, and then we'll see you at the end 0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:24.520 of the summer. Make five hundred of them. Yeah, you 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.920 have to run a cell machine. Well, t too bad 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.080 because you have to stitch this by hand. What's number four? Uh, 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:36.679 the employer that provides the training, this is weird. Doesn't 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.680