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Speaker 1: Let's play truth or dare? Okay, go ahead, No, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: you cut out. You cut out. I couldn't hear if

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Speaker 1: you said truth or dare? Which one did you say?

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Speaker 2: No, I'm not willing, I'm not interested. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to play.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever have you ever peed in a shower?

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Speaker 1: Tell the truth? Have you ever peed in a shower? John, Jackie.

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Speaker 2: That's just not a question, John.

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 1: Because the answer is yes?

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Speaker 2: Affirmative?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Have you ever peed in a bathtub?

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Speaker 4: Negative?

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Speaker 1: You've never peed in a bathtub.

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Speaker 2: That's disgusting.

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Speaker 4: Why would you pee on yourself?

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I did.

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Speaker 5: You did?

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Speaker 1: You just said no, I didn't. Okay, Okay, you can.

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Speaker 6: You're surprised because.

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Speaker 1: I'm not in the hot seat. You are, You're.

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Speaker 2: Not at We're having a conversation.

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Speaker 4: I want to have asation.

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Speaker 1: We are having a conversation. Okay, you could do you

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Speaker 1: want to get conversation from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein

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Speaker 1: and this is Heavyweight Today's episode.

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Speaker 5: Scott. Okay, we're rolling.

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Speaker 1: So Scott, first of all, thank you. Maybe the thing

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Speaker 1: to do would go on if you're lucky. The mistakes

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Speaker 1: you make as you move through life, are small and harmless,

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Speaker 1: calling your teacher mommy, leaving gum in your jeans in

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Speaker 1: the wash, or talking over the person you're trying to

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Speaker 1: talk to. No, no, sorry, sure, hang on a second, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: tell me, tell me more, Scott. But the mistake Scott

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Speaker 1: made wasn't the small kind. It was the big kind.

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Speaker 1: Big because it hurt his dad, one of the people

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Speaker 1: Scott loves most, and he's been trying to fix that

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Speaker 1: mistake for the past eight years. For Scott, the story

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Speaker 1: all begins when he was a kid, which is when

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Speaker 1: he first discovered drugs.

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Speaker 7: The first one was weed, you know, that was when

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Speaker 7: I was thirteen, and then alcohol, and then it quickly

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Speaker 7: kind of descended from there. So I first did cocaine

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Speaker 7: when I was fourteen fifteen, first did meth when I

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Speaker 7: was about fifteen, and then I was around that same

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Speaker 7: time that I found opiates.

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Speaker 1: Scott's mom suffered from chronic pain and there were always

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Speaker 1: pills in her medicine cabinet, stuff like OxyContin and fentanyl.

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Speaker 7: It is this feeling of like finding a missing piece

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Speaker 7: to a puzzle. All of a sudden, my anxiety was gone.

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Speaker 7: I didn't have as much self doubt, and I was

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Speaker 7: able to speak my mind and connect and talk and

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Speaker 7: approach girls. And at the time it really felt like

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Speaker 7: a cheat code that I would have for life.

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Speaker 1: And for a while it worked. Scott graduated high school,

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Speaker 1: then college and found his way into job as a

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Speaker 1: well paid graphic designer, but he was still using drugs

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Speaker 1: the way he always had to manage his anxiety and

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Speaker 1: make friends, like the friend who got him to shoot

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Speaker 1: Heroin for the first time.

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Speaker 7: And I say friend now, but looking back on it,

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Speaker 7: we weren't necessarily friends at all. But he said, if

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Speaker 7: you can give me a ride to go pick up

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Speaker 7: some drugs, then I'll give you some for your trouble.

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Speaker 7: And so we're driving down I seventy. He's in shotgun.

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Speaker 7: I'm in the driver's seat with my arm extended out

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Speaker 7: over the middle part of the car as he shoots

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Speaker 7: me up for the first time and I instantly passed

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Speaker 7: out and kind of swerved across three lanes before he

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Speaker 7: grabbed the wheel, and then I kind of came back

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Speaker 7: to a foot away from hitting a guard rail that

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Speaker 7: right there just threw gasoline onto the fire. It went

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Speaker 7: from you know, doing it on the weekends once or

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Speaker 7: twice a month, to doing it every weekend, to doing

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Speaker 7: it every few days every other day.

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Speaker 1: Within a year, Scott lost his job and moved into

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Speaker 1: his dad's basement, back into his childhood home in Colorado.

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Speaker 1: He still needed to get high every day and now

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Speaker 1: had no money. There were boxes in the basement filled

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Speaker 1: with old jewelry and silverware, stuff that had belonged to

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Speaker 1: Scott's mom before she passed away. So Scott started stealing

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Speaker 1: stuff from the boxes to bring to a pawnshop down

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Speaker 1: the road. He figured an item or two wouldn't be missed,

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Speaker 1: but pretty soon it became a daily thing.

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Speaker 7: All the while, the voice in the back of my

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Speaker 7: head was still there, knowing what was right and was wrong,

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Speaker 7: and so I felt immense guilt.

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Speaker 1: Soon the boxes were empty, and Scott began to eye

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Speaker 1: other things, things right out in the open, things that

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Speaker 1: belonged to his dad.

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Speaker 7: So like a radio on the shelf, just right there

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Speaker 7: in the living room, taking that, and then a baseball

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Speaker 7: signed by the early thirties New York Yankees, you know,

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Speaker 7: Babe Ruth and Louke Rig and everything like that.

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Speaker 1: Did your dad know what was going on?

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Speaker 7: I mean, my dad is a very unique person. He's

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Speaker 7: kind of like chronically petrified of direct conversations.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 7: I remember, even as a kid, he would have me

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Speaker 7: order the pizza, you know, when we were ordering a

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Speaker 7: pizza or something like that, because he didn't want to

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Speaker 7: talk to the person on the phone.

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Speaker 1: So Scott's dad never brought up the missing stuff until

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Speaker 1: Scott started taking money.

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Speaker 7: I knew right where his checkbook was, you know, it

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Speaker 7: was right there on the secretary by the front door,

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Speaker 7: and I had a light table where I put down

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Speaker 7: a piece of paperwork that i'd found with his signature

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Speaker 7: on it, and then put the check over it and

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Speaker 7: kind of traced over it.

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Speaker 1: The checks were small, sixty dollars here and there, but

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Speaker 1: soon the account was thousands of dollars overdrawn. So his

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Speaker 1: dad had to make a decision. It was one thing

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Speaker 1: for a clock to go missing, another thing entirely for

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Speaker 1: his savings to disappear. So the man who couldn't bring

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Speaker 1: himself to pick up the phone to order pizza, picked

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Speaker 1: up the phone and reported his son to the police.

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Speaker 7: So then they piled me into the back of the

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Speaker 7: police car and then brought me to the jail.

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Speaker 1: Were you scared at this point?

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Speaker 7: I was petrified. I was petrified of the legal consequences

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Speaker 7: I had, but I think I was equally or more

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Speaker 7: petrified of the detox that I knew that was coming.

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Speaker 7: I remember scrawling out the hours I was sober on

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Speaker 7: a little jail house notepad that they give you, And

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Speaker 7: you know, I was doing three hundred dollars a day

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Speaker 7: of heroin at that point. So it was a really, really,

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Speaker 7: really bad withdraw. There was just a series of horrible

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Speaker 7: days where I just couldn't stop crying. I would have

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Speaker 7: these kind of vivid dreams of seeing family or being happy,

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Speaker 7: and then wake up to realize I'm still in a

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Speaker 7: jail cell.

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks into his detention, a garbled voice

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Speaker 1: came over the loudspeaker. Scott had a visitor.

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Speaker 7: Nobody had visited me yet, and so I thought it

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Speaker 7: was a mistake at first, And so I go up

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Speaker 7: there and there's my dad come to visit me.

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Speaker 1: But Scott's father wasn't there to offer support. He was

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Speaker 1: there to present his son with a list of all

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Speaker 1: the things he'd stolen. The radios, the watch collection, the

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Speaker 1: family silver. It was two columns containing some fifty items,

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Speaker 1: and at the very top of the page.

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Speaker 7: His most prized possession, the Luger, this German pistol that

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Speaker 7: my grandfather had taken off of a German in World

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Speaker 7: War II. This gun was something that I knew was

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Speaker 7: like his pride and joy. That was like the quintessential

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Speaker 7: memento and the biggest piece that my dad had to

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Speaker 7: remember his dad by. And so that was the one

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Speaker 7: big thing that I had promised myself that I would

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Speaker 7: never take, and I took it.

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Speaker 1: Of all the things Scott had stolen from his dad,

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Speaker 1: of all the mistakes he'd made, this is the one

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Speaker 1: he regrets most.

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Speaker 7: I've only seen my father cry when his dad passed away,

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Speaker 7: when my mom passed away, and in that jail when

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Speaker 7: he was telling me about him knowing about the gun

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Speaker 7: being gone. You know, this was a piece of his

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Speaker 7: father that he thought he would be able to hold

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Speaker 7: on to for the rest of his life. And I

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Speaker 7: sold for fourteen hundred dollars worth of drugs.

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Speaker 1: For four months, Scott sat in jail awaiting trial. When

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Speaker 1: he was finally sentenced, the judge decided to dismiss the

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Speaker 1: charges if Scott completed this two year treatment program that

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Speaker 1: was modeled on rehab programs from the seventies. Scott would

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Speaker 1: have to shave his head and scrub the floors with

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Speaker 1: a toothbrush, that.

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Speaker 5: Kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: The judge told Scott that the roughly three hundred people

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Speaker 1: he'd sent there, none had made it through.

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Speaker 7: So that was encouraging right at the very beginning. But

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Speaker 7: as like, get me in, whatever I need to do,

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Speaker 7: I'm going to do it.

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Speaker 1: After two years, Scott walked out of the facility and

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Speaker 1: he's been clean since. He has a wife, two young kids,

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Speaker 1: and a job at a residential treatment facility in Colorado

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Speaker 1: where he works with addicts and their families. He's trying

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Speaker 1: to make up for who he used to be by

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Speaker 1: paying it forward. But there's one person he's never been

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Speaker 1: able to pay back.

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Speaker 7: I have all but forgiven myself for a lot of

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Speaker 7: the things that I've done in the past, but this

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Speaker 7: is one thing that, no matter the amount of counseling,

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Speaker 7: it still bothers me on the deepest level that I

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Speaker 7: did this to my dad.

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Speaker 1: So about five years ago, Scott took his dad's list

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Speaker 1: of the stolen items and set off to recover the

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Speaker 1: luger along with everything else.

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Speaker 7: So I went to the old ante stores that I

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Speaker 7: used to go to. I went to the old sports

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Speaker 7: memorabilia spot to see if I could track down the

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Speaker 7: baseball that I had sold.

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Speaker 1: He succeeded in getting some things back, a Crossley antique radio,

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Speaker 1: a Ham radio, and that Christmas with his sister, all

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Speaker 1: his aunts and uncles gathered round, Scott surprised his dad

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Speaker 1: with the items he'd recovered. Scott was feeling pretty proud

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Speaker 1: of himself until Uncle Bill piped up and.

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Speaker 7: My uncle, you know, basically says, oh, well, he's the luger.

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Speaker 7: In there is the luger, one of the things that

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Speaker 7: you were able to get back.

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Speaker 1: Uncle Bill was close with Scott's grandfather. Like him, he'd

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Speaker 1: also served in the military. He believed the luger should

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Speaker 1: have been his to begin with, not a little brothers.

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Speaker 7: And I was like, no, no, I wasn't able to

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Speaker 7: find that. And then that led to probably about a

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Speaker 7: ten minute spiel of his about how important that gun

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Speaker 7: was to him. And I remember the day when I

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Speaker 7: found out that that was stolen. It still bothers me.

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Speaker 7: And it was just like in the middle of Christmas

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Speaker 7: morning and we're handing out presents and every word that

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Speaker 7: he said, just like, ugh, it felt like a kick

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Speaker 7: in the gut.

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Speaker 1: And how do you think it made your father feel.

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Speaker 7: Very uncomfortable, very uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But he's.

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Speaker 7: Not the type of person that would toss it back

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Speaker 7: in my face.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 7: That's kind of my uncle's style, but not necessarily his.

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Speaker 1: Although Scott's dad didn't say anything, Scott understood that his

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Speaker 1: dad felt the same way as Uncle Bill, that it

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Speaker 1: was nice to have all those items returned, but the

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Speaker 1: only one he really cared about was the luger and

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Speaker 1: it was gone all because of Scott.

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Speaker 7: I know that there's still trust issues there. I know

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Speaker 7: that there's still pain there, and I've told him over

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Speaker 7: the years that I'm going to do what I can

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Speaker 7: to try and get it back. And I know by

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Speaker 7: the glean in his eye that that would matter quite

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Speaker 7: a bit, and that if I am able to track

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Speaker 7: this down, it would be seismic.

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Speaker 1: No matter what Scott accomplishes in life or how good

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Speaker 1: he feels, there's always that nagging voice that cries out,

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Speaker 1: what about the luger? Were you able to get that back?

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00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,439
Speaker 1: Even when Scott is relaxing in front of the TV,

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Speaker 1: if anything about World War two comes on, he has

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Speaker 1: to change the channel, and so Scott's come to me.

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Speaker 1: He wants to find his grandfather's luger and has no

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Speaker 1: idea where to begin. My first thought is why me?

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Speaker 1: Why not the guys from Firearms Chat podcast, The Reloading Podcast,

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Speaker 1: Wasted Ammo Podcast, Socialist Rifle Association Podcast, Concealed Carry Podcast,

241
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Speaker 1: New Shooter Canada, or gun Girl Radio, the Firearm show

242
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Speaker 1: for the Second Amendment. Woman, I'm more the wistful type

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Speaker 1: than the pistol type, more the pun type than the

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Speaker 1: gun type. Do you think we'll have to go to

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Speaker 1: a gun show?

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

247
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Speaker 7: Oh, I think it just kind of depends on where it.

248
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Speaker 1: Ended up, like the thing that's a little scary. And

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm completely like out of line with thinking this,

250
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Speaker 1: but is it possible like that these guns can filter

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Speaker 1: back into like a kind of nether world.

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Speaker 7: Of like Nazi sympathizer people.

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Speaker 1: Exactly like, yeah, it's possible. Yeah, I don't abide by

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Speaker 1: Nazi sympathizers, but I'm rapidly becoming a Skatzi sympathizer. As

255
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,680
Speaker 1: Anton Chekhov once said, if a gun shows up in

256
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,520
Speaker 1: the first act, it must be fired in the second

257
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,520
Speaker 1: and that's a lot of presh. But as Jonathan Goldstein

258
00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,280
Speaker 1: once said, if a gun's to be fired at all,

259
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Speaker 1: please don't let it hit me in the wallet, because

260
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Speaker 1: that's where I keep the charge card I use for

261
00:13:50,559 --> 00:14:01,200
Speaker 1: purchasing quality products like the ones coming your way. Not

262
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,080
Speaker 1: knowing where to start, I spend several hours on a

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00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,800
Speaker 1: gun collector's discussion board run by someone named Jan with

264
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Speaker 1: an iron cross for an avatar. I introduce myself to

265
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,720
Speaker 1: my fellow gun nuts and announce that I'm looking for

266
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,840
Speaker 1: a gun. Right away, an Internet pop up pops up,

267
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,880
Speaker 1: telling me that my content has been blocked and to

268
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 1: quote see administrator. Immediately after the Gimblet Media HR department

269
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 1: confiscates my computer, I unholster my weapon of choice, the telephone.

270
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 1: I dial gun dealerships all over the country to seek advice.

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Speaker 6: It's going to be almost impossible.

272
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,280
Speaker 1: There may not be any type of record.

273
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Speaker 3: Because it could just be in some private collector's collection.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be hard for you. I'm gonna tell you

275
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Speaker 1: straight up.

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Speaker 4: Do you know when it was sold?

277
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Speaker 8: Do you have any type of serial number?

278
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 1: Of course a serial number. Scott doesn't know the serial number,

279
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 1: but he admits there's one person who.

280
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Speaker 7: Might Uncle Bill, my dad's older brother.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, mister Christmas Morning himself. Are you in touch with

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Speaker 1: your uncle?

283
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,040
Speaker 7: I am, I mean not a ton, but I am.

284
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, So maybe he would. He would be a place

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Speaker 1: to start.

286
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:35,240
Speaker 7: Now, I'm uh, I mean, of course, there's a cloud

287
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 7: of anxiety. My chest starts tightening when I think about

288
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 7: actually doing it.

289
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,040
Speaker 1: Shortness of breath would come next, then burning in the

290
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,960
Speaker 1: chestel region. It was sounding to this reporter like the

291
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 1: healing process had already begun.

292
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 7: But maybe we could both do it. Yeah, we could

293
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:54,440
Speaker 7: do a three person call.

294
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Speaker 1: So with me on the line as this emotional defibrillator,

295
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 1: Scott dials up Uncle Bill.

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Speaker 2: Bill Good. After that Bill, Hello, Uncle Bill, how are you?

297
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,080
Speaker 2: I'm good, mister Goldstein.

298
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hi. After Scott and I jockey over who will

299
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,800
Speaker 1: hide behind who's petty coats? Scott boldly peers out from

300
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 1: behind my petty coats and asks Uncle Bill about the

301
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,080
Speaker 1: serial number.

302
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,800
Speaker 2: I believe it had a fairly low serial number, but

303
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 2: unfortunately we never took a photo of the writing on

304
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,119
Speaker 2: the inside of the holster.

305
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,080
Speaker 1: So you don't have the serial number.

306
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 5: I do not.

307
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,480
Speaker 1: But the moment we bring up the gun. It's Christmas

308
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 1: Morning all over again.

309
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 2: It's a piece of history of his history. That was

310
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 2: part of what formed him to be the man that

311
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 2: I knew. And that's about all we have from him

312
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,560
Speaker 2: from that era, and now we don't have that.

313
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,000
Speaker 1: When Uncle Bill speaks to the gun, it's as though Scott,

314
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 1: the person responsible for its disappearance, isn't there, even when

315
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,920
Speaker 1: he pipes up to defend himself.

316
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,879
Speaker 2: The gun disappeared to help beat his habit, and I

317
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,920
Speaker 2: was royally pissed at him.

318
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:27,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, I paid off every cent.

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00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,120
Speaker 2: I'm happy with his dad either.

320
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:30,159
Speaker 4: You know.

321
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:31,920
Speaker 2: It wasn't like I was going to go and beat

322
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 2: him up or anything, but I was pissed that he

323
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,680
Speaker 2: felt the need to quote, keep it safe, and then

324
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,199
Speaker 2: he didn't keep it safe.

325
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 1: Do you still feel like you fault your brother for that?

326
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 2: Somewhat?

327
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:50,440
Speaker 4: Now?

328
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 2: The reality of World War two vents is that they

329
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 2: didn't really like to talk about the war. We didn't

330
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:03,640
Speaker 2: have PTSD as doss. The damage was usually doubtless with alcohol,

331
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 2: and he a loveful lot of them drank too much,

332
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:08,680
Speaker 2: and that's how they self medicated.

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00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 1: After the war. Scott's grandfather became an alcoholic. He spent

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00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,639
Speaker 1: his days in an easy chair with a glass in

335
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 1: his hand, and in the evenings he kept a bottle

336
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 1: of whiskey on the nightstand to make sure he didn't

337
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 1: wake up in a withdrawal Like the Luger. It seems

338
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 1: addiction has also been a part of Scott's family for decades.

339
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,119
Speaker 1: Before getting off the phone, Uncle Bill does offer a

340
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 1: couple helpful bits of information. He tells us that the

341
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 1: Luger was a mouser and that returning World War II

342
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,879
Speaker 1: soldiers were often issued something called bring back papers, documents

343
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 1: detailing any items they took home. If he could find

344
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 1: those papers, Bill says there's a chance the gun's serial

345
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 1: number might be there. He also says that if anyone

346
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,760
Speaker 1: has the bringback papers, it'd be Scott's older sister, Mary,

347
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 1: the family record keeper and also one of Scott's biggest supporters.

348
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 7: She's a good person and an honest one.

349
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 1: When Scott was in jail, Mary was the one who

350
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,440
Speaker 1: visited most, gave him money for the commissary, and helped

351
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 1: him with his court case. When I explained the length

352
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 1: Scott's going through to get their dad's gun back, Mary

353
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,679
Speaker 1: becomes emotional. The whole thing reminds her of a story

354
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 1: from when they were kids. Mary Scott and their dad

355
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:28,120
Speaker 1: had gone out shopping.

356
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 4: He accidentally stole a bookmark from the store, just because he.

357
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,800
Speaker 5: Thought we had paid for it and we hadn't, and

358
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 5: he cried all the way home and.

359
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,680
Speaker 3: Made us go all the way back to the store

360
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 3: almost an hour away, to return it.

361
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,400
Speaker 1: Mary still sees her little brother as the same well

362
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 1: meaning kid who's trying to make things right. She's not

363
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,439
Speaker 1: sure she has the bringback papers, but wants to help,

364
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,880
Speaker 1: so over the weekend she digs through their grandfather's old stuff.

365
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 1: She finds wartime postcards, letters to their grandmother, photos of

366
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,159
Speaker 1: their grandfather and his army buddies huddled in fox holes.

367
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 3: And then she found the actual document, the Bringback Papers.

368
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 1: Holy cow, Okay, so.

369
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 2: What and now it's pretty crazy.

370
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's yellowing with it almost looks like it as

371
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 3: a coffee stains right through the middle. And then it

372
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 3: has just written in underneath it Luger pistol cerial number

373
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 3: four five nine.

374
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: WOWI hi Giovanni, how are you Johnson? I'm good? How

375
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 1: are you?

376
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 8: I'm doing well, doing well?

377
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: I get Giovanni's number from another gun dealer who tells

378
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 1: me that if I'm looking for a World War two

379
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,119
Speaker 1: era luger, Giovanni is my man. Giovanni owns one of

380
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: Colorado's largest historical firearm shops and is something of an

381
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: expert in lugers, and so armed with the serial number,

382
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: I get ready to make some headway. The serial number

383
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: is four or five nine?

384
00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 5: Okay?

385
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 2: No, you have any incomplete? Say on them.

386
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,120
Speaker 1: Giovanni explains that luger's serial numbers have both numbers and letters,

387
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: so there could be a four five nine, A four

388
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: five nine B and so on. I re examined the

389
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 1: scan Scott sent me.

390
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 5: But no letter.

391
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: How many four five nine serial number guns are there?

392
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 4: Probably out there lugers probably about.

393
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 5: It could be one hundred.

394
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: Hoping to narrow the pool, I tell Giovanni it wasn't

395
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: just any luger, It was a mouser. Does that give

396
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: you an okay? So, in giving you that serial number,

397
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 1: it's not like you can look it up in a

398
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 1: database or anything.

399
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 5: No, oh, absolutely not.

400
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 6: No.

401
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 1: What would you do if you were trying to track

402
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: down this gun?

403
00:21:58,800 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 5: I will get up.

404
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 1: Before hanging up, Giovanni says, there's one last thing we

405
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 1: could try retracing the gun's path, go back to the

406
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: pawnshop clerk to see if he has a record of

407
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: who he sold the gun to. Giovanni says the clerk

408
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 1: has no obligation to reveal that information, but it's worth

409
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,479
Speaker 1: a shot. The clerk's name is George, and he and

410
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: Scott were friendly back when Scott was living with his dad.

411
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,679
Speaker 1: They're still connected on Facebook. So Scott messages asking if

412
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: George might be willing to talk to us, and George says.

413
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: Yes, and then he calls me back a couple minutes later,

414
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: just in tears.

415
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 1: It turns out that when George bought the gun from

416
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: Scott eight years ago, he intended to keep it for himself.

417
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: At the time, George and his wife were expecting a baby.

418
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 3: And about two weeks after I had sold him that gun,

419
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 3: he found out his wife had brain cancer. Oh my god,

420
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 3: really aggressive brain cancer, and she ended up having to

421
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 3: go undergo really aggressive radiation, and so because of that,

422
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 3: they ended up losing the baby.

423
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: Just months after buying the gun from Scott, George sold

424
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 1: it to pay for his wife's medical bills.

425
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 3: And then she passed away a number of months after that,

426
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 3: and It just brings up these kind of horrible memories

427
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 3: that he's trying to avoid diving back into.

428
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: Each time the gun has changed hands, it seems it's

429
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 1: been in the midst of violence, desperation, and personal tragedy. Well,

430
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 1: George doesn't want to talk. He does remember the name

431
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: of the person he sold the gun to, the owner

432
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: of a rare coin and gold boullion shop, a man

433
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 1: named Klaus.

434
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 4: I just keep my collecting interest private. You know, some

435
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 4: people think just because you buy Nazi guns that you

436
00:23:58,800 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 4: are na seen.

437
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: When I first phone Klaus at his store, he's reluctant

438
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 1: to talk. He's nervous about being judged for his hobby.

439
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 4: I'm a collector, but you know, some people associated collecting

440
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 4: World War two German and mirabilia with you know, Nazism.

441
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: I reassure Klaus that that's not what I think, But

442
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: over the course of our phone call, I become less

443
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 1: sure of what I think.

444
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 4: I have a Luger serial number seven. What makes it

445
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 4: so interesting that Hitler's party pen number was number seven,

446
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 4: so he was, you know, the party member number seven.

447
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 4: I have a number seven Luger.

448
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: How did you acquire something like that?

449
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: Ah? I have some things that are very, very unusual.

450
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 4: You know, I came I'm an immigrant.

451
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: I came from Germany.

452
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 4: My grandfather was a Nazi officer, and my father was

453
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 4: was in the youth.

454
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: I have many questions for Klaus. First and foremost, why

455
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: are you telling me Jonathan Goldstein about your familial ties

456
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: to the Nazis. But I'm not here to interrogate Klaus.

457
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: I'm here to find Scott's gun. So I try to

458
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: steer us back on track. I tell Klaus that I'm

459
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: calling on behalf of a man named Scott, whose grandfather

460
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: once owned a Mauser Luger that George sold to him

461
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: some years ago. Klaus tells me that's not possible. He

462
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: tells me he never bought a gun from George. He

463
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: doesn't even know who George is. And besides, he says

464
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: he's never owned a Mauser Luger. Maybe you're mistaken. I say,

465
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: all these guns kind of look alike, black, shiny shooty.

466
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: Maybe you lost track of it, maybe it fell behind

467
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: the couch. Klaus tells me he'll look around, but he's noncommittal,

468
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: just trying to get off the phone. Then at eleven

469
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: thirteen PM, I get a text Hello Jonathan. It reads

470
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: call me at your convenience, and speaking of convenience, no

471
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 1: need to so much as move a muscle, because I'm

472
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: about to march right over there and dump a truckload

473
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: of savings directly onto your face.

474
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 5: This.

475
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking. How are you well.

476
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: I have some news for you. I found the gun?

477
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 5: What Yeah, are you kidding me? No?

478
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 6: No, are you kidding me?

479
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 5: No?

480
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: Oh my god?

481
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 5: Yeah? You found it? Yes?

482
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 6: Wow, Yeah, I'm blown away.

483
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: It's a matter of whether we'll be able to get it. Okay,

484
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: it's still in Klaus's possession.

485
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 6: So did you talk to him?

486
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: I did, and uh, it was an interesting conversation. So

487
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: you found you found the gun?

488
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I was surprised last night. It took

489
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 4: a look and I went into my vault room and

490
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 4: I found it.

491
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: The luger was still in the original holster. Attached to

492
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: it was a tag with Scott's grandfather's name. Would you

493
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: be open to the idea of selling it back to him?

494
00:27:48,119 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 4: Well, my first thought is probably not. It's just that

495
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 4: I legally purchased the gun, and I mean, I'm a collector,

496
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 4: and you know I paid for it.

497
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: So I mean, would you would you say that his

498
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: grandfather paid for it with his service.

499
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 4: I mean it's war bounty that someone brought it over

500
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 4: from Germany. You know, he didn't pay for it.

501
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: From Klaus's perspective, the gun Scott stole was already stolen property.

502
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 4: He took it off as a German officer. And you know,

503
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 4: as we spoke prior, my grandfather was an officer in

504
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 4: World War Two, and you know, my thoughts were a chia.

505
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 4: You know, could that gun been here? At this point,

506
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 4: I'm not really compelled to let go of the gun,

507
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 4: but I still give it some thoughts.

508
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: So the way that we left it was he said

509
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: that he'd think about it.

510
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 6: Okay, well, I won't start celebrating yet, but we know

511
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 6: who has it, we know where it is. So now

512
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 6: it's just kind of tactfully figuring out what it's going

513
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 6: to take to get it back.

514
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: I really do respect your optimism. I don't think we're

515
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: going to get the gun back. Personally, I'm going to try.

516
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 6: We're going to get that gun.

517
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: Since Scott's not ready to admit defeat, I suggest he

518
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: tried making his case directly to Klaus in a letter.

519
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: So Scott writes from the heart. He explains the full

520
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: story of his addiction, his time in jail, and his

521
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: guilt about his dad. My greatest regret was that I

522
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: would never be able to get this heirloom back in

523
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: the hands of my father, Scott writes, But now, for

524
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: the first time, that seems like a possibility. Eight years ago,

525
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: I was so addicted to Heroin that I was pretty

526
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: sure I was going to die. That fact has since

527
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: been replaced with another, more hope filled one second chances

528
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: are real. Klaus receives the letter but offers no response.

529
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,479
Speaker 1: Two weeks go by and still we hear nothing, so

530
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: I send another email. Klaus's answer is short. I have

531
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: considered Scott's response and I have decided to not sell

532
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: the gun at this time. If my position ever changes,

533
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: I will contact you, Klaus.

534
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 6: That's just ridiculous. Settling on the fact that we know

535
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 6: where it is and not getting it back. That's just

536
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 6: like super frustrating. I mean, there's got to be something

537
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 6: we can do.

538
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: Scott says he's willing to pay whatever Klaus wants for

539
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: the gun, so again I contact Klaus. It's not a

540
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: money issue. Klaus responds, almost immediately. I am just not

541
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: interested in selling a gun to an individual. I can't

542
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: figure out what exactly Klaus means by an individual. Maybe

543
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: in the past he sold guns to organizations or museums.

544
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: When I write him back, he responds with this, based

545
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: on the background information, I would not sell this gun

546
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: back to Scott. So it's not really an individual per se,

547
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: it's this individual. Scott's letter hadn't made Klaus feel sympathetic.

548
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: It made him feel nervous. Like with Scott's criminal past,

549
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: A gun and a second chance might not make for

550
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: a great combo. If there was any hope, it's now gone. Well,

551
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: I have an update.

552
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 5: Update. Okay.

553
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: A couple days later, I catch Scott at work. Yeah,

554
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: I have another update. Uh huh, it looks like Klaus

555
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: is willing to sell the gun.

556
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 6: Oh you're kidding me.

557
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: No, you were right. You were right to be hopeful.

558
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: I did not think that I was going to be

559
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: reporting this back to you.

560
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: What brought it about?

561
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 6: What changed his mind?

562
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: I'd asked Klaus the same question. It seemed as though

563
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: over the weekend you had a change of heart.

564
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 4: I figured you were going to haunt me until I

565
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 4: finally get it back to the guy.

566
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: I probably would.

567
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 4: I just thought, you know, it seems like the guy

568
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 4: really wanted that item back, So yeah, I just didn't

569
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 4: want to be haunted about it.

570
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 6: So oh, I can't even believe it.

571
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: But there was still one thing that Klaus hadn't changed

572
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: his mind about, and I feel bad having to tell Scott.

573
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: He is saying that he is willing to sell the gun,

574
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: but he won't sell it to you. Klaus doesn't trust

575
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: Scott bottom line.

576
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 6: I mean, he doesn't know me. He doesn't know that

577
00:32:54,400 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 6: it's become a contributing member of society.

578
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: After everything Scott's done to redeem it himself, the rehab,

579
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: the good works. Klaus's judgment stings, but Scott gets it.

580
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: It's something he's experienced before. People accusing him of theft

581
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: when things go missing, women breaking things off when they

582
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: learn he was once an addict. The world still sees

583
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: Scott as a bad bet, but he sweeps aside his

584
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: feelings to address the more pressing question, who can we

585
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: get to buy the gun? The first person that comes

586
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: to my mind is the person who's always believed in

587
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: Scott most. What about your sister?

588
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely no, she would be totally open and willing

589
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 6: to do that, oh, one hundred percent.

590
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: Well, it looks like we're going to be buying a gun.

591
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: Let's buy a gun.

592
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: That's right, except we don't. After looking into Colorado's complicated

593
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: gun laws, we learn that because Mary's not a full

594
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: time Colorado resident, it's illegal for her to buy the gun,

595
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: so we discuss options. Scott's wife could buy it and

596
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: give it to his dad, but that's also illegal in Colorado.

597
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 1: Only blood relatives can gift each other guns. We consider

598
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: Uncle Bill totally legal, but Scott's worried he'd buy it

599
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: and then want to keep it for himself. Out of

600
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: viable family members, we consider getting a middleman to buy

601
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: the gun from Klaus, then sell it to Scott, who

602
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: can then give it to his dad. But as it

603
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: turns out, there's a term for this, a straw purchase,

604
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: and it's a federal felony. It's been nearly two weeks

605
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: of phone calls with Scott, with lawyers with the Colorado

606
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: Firearms Unit, and with each passing day, I become increasingly

607
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: nervous about Klaus changing his mind. So I present Scott

608
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 1: with what might be our last remaining option. His dad

609
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: win Scott falls silent for the first time in the

610
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: course of this quest. He seems defeated. The thought of

611
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: placing his father, Win, the man of afraid of the

612
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: crack voiced pizza boy, in a room with Klaus, the

613
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: man with the gun vault, and the luger that may

614
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: or may not have belonged to Adolf Hitler, makes him

615
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: wonder if maybe it's all just gone too far. But

616
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: at this point it's the only way to get the gun,

617
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: so Scott agrees Win will buy the luger. After the break,

618
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: Win and Klaus.

619
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 7: Hell.

620
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: Scott and his dad Win meet me on the way

621
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: to see Klaus. Mary's here too, She's come along for support.

622
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: Klaus told us to meet him at a gun shop.

623
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: He knows where they can run the necessary background check.

624
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: We all get into Scott's.

625
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 5: Car, people with microphones and stuff.

626
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: Scott's dad, Win is seated up front. He's brought along

627
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: the luger's empty case, which sits on his lap. When

628
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: is bride eyed and smiley, but knowing from Scott how

629
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: shy and nervous his dad can be, gives his jolliness

630
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 1: a slightly forced quality.

631
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:14,479
Speaker 8: All the road work.

632
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: Case in point, when our eta gets pushed back due

633
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: to roadwork. Win bursts into song o work or this

634
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: is when, as Scott tells us about his day, is

635
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: pretty dark day? When is the one giggling in the background.

636
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 8: I got four people into detox programs this morning, so

637
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 8: a lot of distraught parents and overdosing teenagers to deal

638
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 8: with this morning.

639
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: The destination is on your left. Maybe you can even

640
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: pull in. Oh what is a private parky? We pull

641
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: into a parking lot and we all get out of

642
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: the car, all except for Scott. After the way Klaus

643
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: responded to his letter, he's afraid if he goes in

644
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: he'll blow the whole deal.

645
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 5: Who We'll be right back? Cool?

646
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 8: Well, have fun?

647
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 5: Yes, all right.

648
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: From behind the windshield, Scott watches as his father ambles

649
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: towards the gun shop, empty gun case in his hand.

650
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: I can imagine how Scott's feeling. Scott already believes he's

651
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: failed his dad in so many ways. Sending him to

652
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: buy back his own gun in a rundown looking gun

653
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: shop with bars on the windows must feel like one

654
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: more failing. Let's buy ourselves a gun.

655
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 4: Time to buy a gun.

656
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: At the door, a large man wearing sunglasses and a

657
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: holstered gun silently greets us wind Ducks. Inside the walls

658
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: and shelves of the gun shop are full of Nazi metals,

659
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: Nazi helmets, Nazi hats, uniforms, guns, and Swastika armbands. And

660
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: at the center of it all is Klaus, who is

661
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: at present chummily talking to a large tattooed clerk with

662
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: a white goatee. They quiet down when Win, Mary and

663
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 1: I approach. Klaus appears to be in his sixties. He's

664
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: a slight man with thinning, slick back hair. Winn walks over,

665
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: smiling nervously as Klaus turns to greet him, and then

666
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: the grandson of a Nazi officer shakes hands with the

667
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: son of an American soldier. As Mary and Klaus introduce themselves,

668
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: I adjust the levels on my recorder. The goateed man

669
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: has a look about him that says I don't listen

670
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: to podcasts just the same. I take a deep breath,

671
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: scoop my testes out of my MPR tote bag, and,

672
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: in my best vocal approximation of Ira glass manned my

673
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: journalistic rights.

674
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 5: Uh, and.

675
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: Would it be okay if we were to be recording

676
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: for the thing they we're doing in the background. Absolutely no, okay,

677
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: absolutely no.

678
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 5: Cut it.

679
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: The luger sits on a glass display counter. Winn walks over.

680
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: That's it, he says, his father took it off of

681
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: my grandfather. Klaus jokes to the goateed man, the gun

682
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: is pristine. Mary and I take turns holding it. It's

683
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: heavier than we expect. Win hands a driver's license over

684
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 1: for the background check. While we wait, there's an awkward silence.

685
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: I consider asking if anyone seen Mama Mia too. Here

686
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: we go again, and if so, whether they thought the

687
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: closing super Trooper number at the Hotel Belladonna was a

688
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: bit much. But before I can clear my throat of anxiety, mucus,

689
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 1: the background check is complete. After all the hoop law

690
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: it took all of ten minutes. Wind gives Klaus the

691
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: money and Klaus gives Win the gun. For perhaps the

692
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: first time ever, the luger changes hands without incident. Klaus

693
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: watches as Winn carefully places the gun back into its case.

694
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: Don't let it get out of the family anymore, he says.

695
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: As the goateed man watches us wind our way to

696
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: the exit on the right back. Everyone is quiet I

697
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: imagine Scott is feeling relief Mary Pride and her brother,

698
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: but watching Win in the front seat, staring out the window,

699
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: gun case at his feet, it's hard to say what

700
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: he's feeling.

701
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 8: God, this is crazy to see.

702
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: At Mary's apartment, we all huddle around the dining room table.

703
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 1: Scott's grandfather's gun has been placed at the center. Scott

704
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: and Mary marvel at it, but I'm amazed at the

705
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: tag is still on it. Yeah, and it has a number.

706
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 8: Four or five nine?

707
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 5: Look at that. This is crazy.

708
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 8: You understand how crazy this is.

709
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: If Winn does understand how crazy it is, it's hard

710
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: to tell. There's something muted about his response. In fact,

711
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: since we've entered the apartment, Wind hasn't seemed interested in

712
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: his father's gun at all. When Scott asks him if

713
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: he'd like to hold it, he declines, Well, Scott and

714
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: Mary passed their grandfather's gun between them. Winn sits silently.

715
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 1: I try to draw him out. Did you put any

716
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: hopes in ever getting that gun back?

717
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 5: I thought it was unfortunate that it disappeared, but I

718
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 5: pusn't saying darn. I wish I could find that gun.

719
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 5: It's just a material object.

720
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: No one is sure what to say. Sure, it's a

721
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: material object, but it's a material object that carries great meaning.

722
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: It's a material object that connects him to his dad.

723
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 5: I was not as close to my dad as I

724
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 5: would like to have been, the guy with a glass

725
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 5: of Scotch whiskey in his hands, sitting in the easy chair,

726
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 5: tossing out criticisms as needed. The way you grow a

727
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 5: better son is to criticize him for.

728
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 1: The first time all day when isn't cracking a silly

729
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: joke or smiling.

730
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 5: My main memory of my dad was being afraid of him. Remember,

731
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 5: one of my early memories is that I'd somehow succeeded

732
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 5: in getting a bruised bone on my shin. And I

733
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 5: was like three years old, and my mother was sufficiently

734
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 5: concerned that she took me to the doctor and had

735
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 5: an X rayed, and it was, oh, in the world

736
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 5: the world did a little teddy that was me then

737
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 5: get a bruise on his bone? And I think what

738
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 5: it is is that I think I got kicked by

739
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 5: a guy wearing size twelve wingtips.

740
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: Scott's never heard this story before, and it seems almost

741
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: like he doesn't want to believe it.

742
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 7: Were there good parts about your relationship with him, if

743
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 7: you had to name, if I.

744
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 5: Had to name, hmm, I don't know. He was just

745
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 5: kind of scary all the time.

746
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: Wynn explains that his relationship with his father wasn't the

747
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: same as Bill's relationship with their father.

748
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 5: I think I felt criticized mostly for not being as

749
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 5: good as my brother. He always did well in school,

750
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 5: and I wasn't always so wondrous, and I always saw

751
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 5: myself as a little more plump and a little less athletic.

752
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: Bill was always the louder voice in the room. So

753
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: that Christmas, when Bill lectured Scott about the significance of

754
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: the luger, Scott had assumed Bill was speaking for his

755
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: dad too, but he wasn't.

756
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 7: I saw it as this treasured possession that linked to

757
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 7: you to the good parts of Grandpa. That your relationship

758
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 7: with him is complicated and different than I even knew.

759
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: Scott was right in believing that the gun was a

760
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: reminder of Win's father and that it carried a lot

761
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: of meaning for Win. He just misunderstood the nature of

762
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: that meaning. To know that Scott had been thinking about

763
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: it all these years, even maybe past year having thought

764
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 1: about it. How does that make you feel?

765
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 5: It makes me feel loved that he would make it

766
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 5: a part of his life to try to track it down.

767
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 5: It feels like maybe I was at least part successful

768
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 5: in not being like my dad. Yeah, that I was

769
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 5: somebody he could run over to and climb up in

770
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 5: the lap of when he was little and stick his

771
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 5: fingers up my nose. He still liked to do that.

772
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 5: I could never stick my fingers up my dad's nose.

773
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: Winn looks over at his son.

774
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 5: Don't let it bother you anymore. The greatest prize that

775
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 5: I got out of this whole thing was the fact

776
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 5: that even though all this crap disappeared, I got to

777
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 5: get my boy back. The funeral plot that I had

778
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 5: bought for myself to be next to your mom. I

779
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 5: thought I was going to have to bury my son

780
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 5: in it, and I am delighted that I never had

781
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 5: to do that. That's ever so much better.

782
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: Maybe eight years ago, during Whinn's visit to Scott in jail,

783
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 1: it wasn't the missing gun that had made him cry.

784
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,479
Speaker 1: It was missing his son. But now the gun tells

785
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 1: a different story.

786
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 5: The gun has grown, so it's not just my dad anymore.

787
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 5: It has a whole story to tell about my son,

788
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 5: and it's back returned by this guy here. Thank you

789
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 5: for doing all that.

790
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: Of course, a few weeks later, I get this text

791
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: from Scott the other night. It reads, I stumbled upon

792
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 1: a World War II documentary and for the first time

793
00:46:49,960 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: in eight years, Scott didn't changed the channel. Now that

794
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: the fern ures raft turning to its goodwill home, Now

795
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: that the last month's rant is scheming with the damaged post,

796
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: take this moment to dissolve.

797
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 4: If we met him, if we talked, never felt around

798
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:58,760
Speaker 4: for far too.

799
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: Famous at Accident Leeks. This episode of Heavyweight was produced

800
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 1: by Stevie Lane and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Khalila

801
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 1: Holt and Ba Parker. The show is edited by Jorge

802
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: just Special thanks to Emily Condon, Alex Bloomberg, Nathan Foster,

803
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: Jacob Eppler, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed the episode

804
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson, Blue

805
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: Dot Sessions, Michael Hurst, Hailey Shaw, and Bobby Lord. Additional

806
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: music credits can be found on our website Gimletmedia dot

807
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by The Weaker

808
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: Thans courtesy of Epitaph Records, and our ad music is

809
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: by Hailey Shaw. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or

810
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: email us at Heavyweight at gimltmedia dot com to see

811
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: photos from this week's episode. You can follow the show

812
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: on Spotify and check out our show page on the

813
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: Gimlet Media website. We'll be back in two weeks with

814
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: a brand new episode of Heavyweight

815
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 4: Bo