1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: I am Yama, your host, your guide, a teacher for 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: some and a soft place to fall for others. And 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: I was a miserable failure in my relationships until I 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 1: love myself enough to be able to share my love 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: with other people. Welcome to the R Spot, a production 6 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, 7 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to the R Spot. I am your guide, your facilitator, 8 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: your support, your comrade in arms. Yes, we talk about relationships, 9 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: all kinds of relationships. And when we look out in 10 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: the world today, who my lord relationships are? They're all 11 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: I can say is pray for the people. Ah, praise 12 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: for the people. The people need help. And social relationships, 13 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: family relationships, intimate relationships, loving relationships. And you know, for me, 14 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: it's your relationship with yourself that is the foundation and 15 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: the basis of everything. I don't care who you are, 16 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: what you're doing, gay, straight, black, white, or young, how 17 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: you be with yourself is going to show up, and 18 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: how you be in relationships. But there's this phenomenad that 19 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: seems to be going on that's getting a lot of 20 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: conversation all over the place, and that's singleness. Singleness, being single, 21 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: being unhooked up, unattached, unmarried, you know, and in some 22 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: places people try to make it like it's a disease, 23 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: like there's something wrong with you. I am single by choice, 24 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: single by choice. I've been married three times, twice to 25 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: the same person. Lord, pray for the people, not be 26 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: a people, okay, and in two long term relationships. And 27 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: my last partner made this transition about I guess it'll 28 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: be four years in January. Wow, my goodness. And I'm 29 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: single by choice. I made that choice. That's what I 30 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: want to do right now. Get me together. My relationship 31 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: with myself is shifting and changing, because you know, I 32 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: crossed that seventieth decade last year. So I don't even 33 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: know how to be an old lady in relationship, you know, 34 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: because my mind is young, and I know if I 35 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: be swinging through the chandeliers and doing the stuff I 36 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: used to do when I was young, I could hurt myself. 37 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: So I have to figure out how you be old 38 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: in a relationship. 39 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: What you do? 40 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 3: You know, I can do the basics. 41 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: I like to cook, and i'll iron, and I'll run 42 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: your bath and rub your feet and all of that. 43 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: But you know, I have some old I don't know 44 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: what you call it, prejudices. You know, I don't want 45 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: nobody on no crutch or a walker. I'm not on 46 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: no meds, so you being on your meds on you, 47 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: and I find not a lot of men my age 48 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: are just not in shape. 49 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 3: So I have to go young. I have to go younger. 50 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 3: But how young I haven't. 51 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: Figured any of that out yet, so I said, let 52 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: me just stay over here with me and my kooties 53 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: and don't be infected in the relationship pool. But then 54 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: there are a lot of younger women who are either 55 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: in upset or breakdown or horrification that they're single. And 56 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: then there are some who just have given up because 57 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: for many women, they're just done. They are done with 58 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: the shenanigations and the bad behavior. Yesterday, I think it 59 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: was my beloved sister, beloved sister Stephanie Mills, who's on 60 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: Broadway yay, did an interview on the Breakfast Club, and 61 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: she said that at sixty seven, she's single by choice 62 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: because she don't want to deal with knuckleheads. I didn't 63 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: know there was sixty seven year old knuckleheads, So she 64 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: too is single by choice. But a lot of women 65 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: aren't comfortable with it. A lot of women aren't happy 66 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: about it. A lot of men aren't happy about it. 67 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: Men come to me all the time and say, I 68 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: can't find a good woman. 69 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 3: Well, where are you looking? 70 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: You can't go to the second hand store or the 71 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: Salvation army to look for no good women? 72 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: Because I know a lot of them. What age group 73 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 3: do you want? I'll send you some references. 74 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: But today we are gonna talk about single hood and 75 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: I have a guest today. I have a guest today, 76 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: and then we're going live. We're gonna talk to some 77 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: single women out there and get some insight and input. 78 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: My guest today is doctor Chris Marsh, and she is 79 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: the author of a brand new book, The Love Jones Cohort, 80 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: The Love Jones Cohort, Remember the Love Jones, Love Jones, 81 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: I Gotta Love Jones. Welcome, Doctor Marsh. We want to 82 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: talk about The Love Jones Cohort. We want to talk 83 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: about being single. We want to talk about all of that. 84 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: And the thing about your book is it's The Love 85 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: Jones Cohort, but it's about being single and middle class. 86 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: So I want to talk about that because is there 87 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: a distinction between being single in the middle class, the 88 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: upper class, the lower class. I want to talk about that, 89 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: and you draw from your background in both economics and politics, 90 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: and what in the world is intersectionality. 91 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 3: I don't even know what that is. 92 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: But she was a post doctoral scholar at the Caroline 93 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: Population Center at the University of North Carolina before she 94 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: joined the faculty of the University of Maryland. So she 95 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: is both a woman, a single woman, a scholar, and 96 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: something that she do with intersectionality. 97 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 3: I don't know what that is. So she's gonna tell 98 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 3: us what that is. Okay, welcome doctor Marge. How are you, 99 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 3: doctor Venzan. 100 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: It is truly a pleasure to be on the show. 101 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 2: Thank you for the wonderful introduction. It's just a blessing 102 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: to be here. 103 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 4: So thank you for having me. 104 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, thank you for being here. 105 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: Now, before we start talking about singlehood, what in the 106 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: world is intersectionality? 107 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 3: What is that? 108 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 4: Okay, So we're gonna start there. 109 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 2: Okay, So I am an academic, but I'm going to 110 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 2: try to break this down into very basic, kind of 111 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 2: like terms for you. I'd like to use the analogy 112 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: kiss keep it simple, stupid. So I want to try 113 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 2: to keep real simple for what intersectionality means. So when 114 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: we think of it's kind of like a euretical framework. 115 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: And so what it means is that I'm not just black, 116 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 2: I'm not just a woman. So if you study racism, 117 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 2: you're going to miss some of some of the issues 118 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: I face as a woman. 119 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 4: If you study sexism, you're going. 120 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: To miss some of the things that I face that 121 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: it relates to rapes. So intersectionality says, you can't disconnect 122 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: my blackness from my womanness. You have to talk about 123 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: how me as a black will be those intersecting identities. 124 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: How that now how I navigate through the world and 125 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 2: how the world looks at me because I'm a black woman, 126 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: And one of the arguments I make in the book 127 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: is that it should really be I'm a black, single woman, 128 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: and how does the world look at me? And how 129 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: do I navigate the world. So that's what intersectionality means. 130 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: You can't just look at me as black, you can't 131 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: just look at me as a woman. You have to 132 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: look to those intersecting identities. 133 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: So is that why you talk about being single and 134 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: middle class? 135 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 2: That's a really great question, and class is part of it. 136 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 2: So it's race, of class, it's gender, it's singleness. But 137 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: one of the things, because I am an academic, one 138 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: of the things I decided early on in my academic career. 139 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: And please understand what I mean when I say this, 140 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: I said I was not going to pimp the poor 141 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: to make my academic career. There are a lot of 142 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: scholars who do not look like me who talk about 143 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: poor Black Americans. 144 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 4: But in spite of all. 145 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: The isms that exist in America, there is still a 146 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: thriving Black middle class. And because there is a black 147 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: middle class, all of my work looks at black middle class. 148 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 4: It's a smaller subset of Black America, but they're still there. 149 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: So because they're there, I really wanted to talk about them, 150 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 2: and I really wanted to talk about to the point 151 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 2: you were asking earlier, I really want to talk about 152 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: people that are single and living alone in the black 153 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: middle class because by definition air quotes, they did everything right. 154 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: They went to college, they got the big houses, the 155 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 2: big degrees, the big titles, but at the end of 156 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: the day, they're still single. Because if I don't look 157 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: at the middle class, what they could say is, oh, 158 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: they're poor, so. 159 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 4: They should have done they should have gone to school, 160 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 4: they should have got a better job. 161 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: No, no, no, these are people that are solid middle 162 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 2: class members and they're still single. So let's kind of 163 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: complicate the conversation. So that's why I really want to 164 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: look at middle class. Wow. 165 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, I'm going live. I am going 166 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: live because this is too juicy and too good to 167 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: just be between. 168 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 3: You and I. 169 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, good afternoon. I am live on the 170 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: R Spot today and I've got a guest, doctor Chris Marsh, 171 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: who confesses and admits that she is an academic, but 172 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: she talks about the middle class. We're gonna talk about 173 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: middle class single people today. I want you to listen in. 174 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take your questions. We're gonna this is so juicy. 175 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: We were doing the interview and just her first line 176 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: to me was so delicious until I said, I have 177 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: to share this meal with my community. 178 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: We need to. 179 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: Understand the black middle class. Now define middle class. If 180 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: you're just joining in, this is the R Spot. We 181 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: are live, me and doctor Chris Marsh talking about being 182 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: single and middle class. She's the author of a brand 183 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: new book, The Love Jones co Hoart. The Love Jones Cohort. 184 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: And remember that movie The Love Jones, okay, with Neil 185 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: Small and the little cutie I can't remember his name, 186 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: but anyway. 187 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: And Lorenz Tate, Lorenz tape. 188 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: Yes, how Lorenz forgive me because you know I love you, 189 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: but I'm old. I can't remember. My brain takes frequent naps. Okay, 190 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: How are you defining middle class, doctor marsh. 191 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 4: That's a really, really, really great question. 192 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: So, being a sociologist and a dermographer, I looked like 193 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 2: the literature and I had to see what the literature 194 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: said about middle class. And typically there's four measures. There's income, occupation, wealth, 195 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 2: and education. Those are typically the four measures that are 196 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: used to define middle class income. 197 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 3: Wait a minute, income, wealth, education. 198 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 4: And education, income, occupation and well. 199 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: So many women today are single, and some of them 200 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: are single by choice, and some of them are single 201 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 1: by happenstance. Some of them are upset at they're single. 202 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: And we want to talk about what that means. What 203 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 1: does it mean to be single today? And how can 204 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: you choose to be single today? And why would you 205 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: choose to be single today? 206 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 3: So we want to talk about all of that. 207 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: And doctor Martin talks about this thing called intersectionality, where 208 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: all of who you are, if you're a woman, if 209 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: you're black, if you're forty, if you're single, all of 210 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: that message together. So you can't look at one thing, 211 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: you got to look at it all. Oh somebody said, 212 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: many are married but single. Yeah, baby, that's a whole 213 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: nother conversation. I'm alone but not lonely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 214 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: And then there are so many men out they're saying 215 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: to me, to me, I hear it all the time. 216 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: I can't find a good woman. I'm like, well, where 217 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: are you looking? Where are you looking that you can't 218 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: find a good woman? 219 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 3: All right? Let me see if doctor Marsh got back 220 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 3: in here. All right, here she is everybody to doctor 221 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 3: Chris with A. K. 222 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: Marsh a professor at the University of Maryland. She's a sociologist. 223 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: And we're here today to talk about single, being single, 224 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: single and middle class. And we've defined middle class. Everybody, 225 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: stay tuned, will be right back right after this. Why 226 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: do we have to have those distinctions? Why do we 227 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: have to have that? Oh? 228 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 2: So, as I was saying earlier, one of the things 229 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: that was really important to me as a scholar and 230 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: as an academic is that I did not want to 231 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: and please understand what I mean when I say that 232 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: I did not want to pamph the poor to make 233 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 2: my academic career. There are a lot of scholars who 234 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 2: do not look like me to spend their entire time 235 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: talking about poor Black Americans, and the Bible even talks 236 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: about how the poor will be with us for all time. 237 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: But I decided that I was not going to pamp 238 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 2: the poor to make my academic career. I wanted to 239 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: look at the black metal class. Those two air quotes 240 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: have done everything that they were supposed to do. They 241 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: had the big houses, the big degrees, the big salaries, 242 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 2: the big occupations, but at the end of the day, 243 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 2: they live different lives than other racial ethnic groups in 244 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: particular like white folks. And so I wanted to study 245 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: the black middle class. But people often ask like, how 246 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 2: do you define black middle class? And I was trying 247 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: to say, like, if we look at the social science literature, 248 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 2: there's usually four measures that are used to define middle class. 249 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: It's income, it's education, it's occupation, and it is I 250 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 2: know we couldn't rebollw that well, and I studied the stuff, right, 251 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: I shouldn't elements so, but I also think people use 252 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: a line of objective measures, but I also think we're 253 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: talking about the black middle class, it can be some 254 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 2: subjective measures like, for example, where you go to church, 255 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: what kind of social organization do you do, how involved 256 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 2: are you with your community? So I do think if 257 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: we use just objective measures where it's just numbered, youmit them, 258 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: you hit the market, you don't, it can be short sighted. 259 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: So I try to offer more of a more contextual 260 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 2: understanding of how we think of no middle class. But 261 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: to the point that one of the listeners said earlier, 262 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: it does come off as classes and the leaders. When 263 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: you have to have a certain education, you have to 264 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: have a certain kind of occupation, you have to make 265 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: a certain amount of money, and you have to have 266 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 2: some kind of wealth, that can be a very immendous perspective. 267 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 4: I agree. 268 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: Now, Now, do middle class people make differently? Do they 269 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: date differently? 270 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: Maybe don't necessarily make differently, and they don't date differently. 271 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to give you a big academic word and 272 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 2: explain what it means. One of the things I talk 273 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 2: about in the book is this idea of educational homogomy 274 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 2: and what that means. In very Layman's terms. It means 275 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 2: like we typically are going to marry somebody that looks 276 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 2: like us, whether or not that needings education, whether or 277 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: not that needs income. So when we're talking about a 278 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: lot of educated black women, are they able to date 279 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: educated black men? Please do not leave this conversation saying 280 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 2: that doctor marsh is saying everybody's got to have a 281 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: a bachelor's degree or a PhD to get married. That 282 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: is not what I'm saying. What I'm suggesting is that 283 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: we typically marry people that look like us. So I 284 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 2: really want to know, like what the middle class black 285 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: middle class does about marriage and dating and so on 286 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 2: and so forth, because if we look at the numbers, 287 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: I'm a demographer. If we look at the numbers, especially 288 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 2: when we start talking about professional black women, there aren't 289 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 2: comparable professional black men numerically, So what are black women 290 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: going to do? So that's part of the conversation I 291 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 2: have in the. 292 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 3: Book Wow Wow Wow. 293 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: That is I don't know. That's troubling to me, and 294 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: it is. It's troubling to me because I never ask 295 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: a person about their education. I guess I look at 296 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: their heart and their soul first. Because my husband, he 297 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: went to college during our marriage, and I had already 298 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: been to college. Right, all right, Well, anyway, you said, 299 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: stop asking why you're single? 300 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 3: Why do you say that? So here's the thing. 301 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 4: There's two things. 302 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 2: One, I'm like, I don't know why everybody thinks it's 303 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: okay to ask single people why are you single? Why 304 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 2: are you worried about our daily practices of what we're doing? 305 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: And so after reading the book, I tell the readers, 306 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: I hope, after reading this book, you are just as 307 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 2: likely to ask somebody why are you married as you 308 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 2: are to. 309 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 4: Ask somebody why are you single? 310 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: We always ask single folks, but we don't ask married folks. 311 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: If we keep asking the single folks, it suggests that 312 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 2: the priority is that you have to be married. Not 313 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 2: a good marriage and not a healthy marriage. You just 314 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 2: have to be married. So either we should be asking 315 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: everybody or we should be asking nobody. But what you're 316 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 2: not gonna do is just ask single quolts. So that's 317 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 2: why I blew up people to take away from the books. 318 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 2: Stop asking. But if you're gonna ask, be consistent, don't discriminate, 319 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: ask married folks, and ask single folks. 320 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna start asking people, why are you married right, 321 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 3: and wait for. 322 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 2: Our culture and wait for coherent response, because come on, 323 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: I responded. In the book, they talked about how they 324 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: have to get their narrative together for like the holidays. 325 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 2: The holidays are coming up, so they have to get 326 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 2: their narrative together for why they're single. And I'm like, 327 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: if we're gonna be asking people about maritals, fasts were 328 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 2: asking everybody, So everybody has to come to the holiday 329 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 2: holiday party or dinner with their narratives and explaining why, 330 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 2: justifying why they're single or why they're married. 331 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: Really, well, I'm single by choice, but you know what, 332 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: everybody's coming to my house, so ain't nobody gonna ask 333 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: me that question? 334 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: What single folks do get it are quite often. And 335 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 2: one of the things in the book I talk about 336 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 2: is I talk about how single folks can actually deal 337 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 2: with that because they get it quite often. And a 338 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 2: little piece of advice that I'm gonna give single folks 339 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: is that when someone asks you why are you single? 340 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: It's a very benign response that you can give, but 341 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 2: it'll get them to think about the error and their statement. 342 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 2: You can just say, what do you mean by that? 343 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, yeah, yeah, so. 344 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 2: Okay, well, okay, there's a couple of things you can do. 345 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: You can cuss them out from I may even grace 346 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 2: the house sweet they how dare you ask me? Blah 347 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Or you can just say in a 348 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 2: very benign the way, what do you mean by that? Now? 349 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 2: Typically what's gonna happen is they're gonna stutter, They're gonna stammer, 350 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 2: and they're gonna say, oh, you know what I mean? 351 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: Like you know, like no, no, no, no, no, what do you 352 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: mean by that? Because all of my accolades, all of 353 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 2: that pedigree that I bring with me does not matter 354 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 2: as long as I don't have an mrs degree. You 355 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 2: gonna go home thinking about the question that you just 356 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 2: asked me. I'm not gonna go home think about it. 357 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 2: I'm gonna leave that back on you, and the allness 358 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 2: is on you to understand the error in your way 359 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 2: when you ask a question, why are you single? 360 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: Well, we can't ignore the fact that there really is this, 361 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: uh I guess social consciousness that if you're single, there's 362 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: something wrong with you. 363 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely yeah. 364 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: Even if you're single with children, either through divorce or 365 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: choice not to be married, you then look at you 366 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: like you got cooties. 367 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like right, yes, yeah. They think something's wrong 368 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 2: with you. And that's that's one of the main reasons 369 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: why I wrote the book. I was really trying to 370 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 2: be stigmatize singlehood because what we have to understand is 371 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: that there's people that will be in relationships that are abusive, toxic, unfulfilling, 372 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 2: and underwarding simply because they don't want to hold the 373 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 2: title of single. They'll either stay in something or get 374 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 2: in something because societal pressures and the way in which 375 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: society is built, it's it caters to be a partnered, 376 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,479 Speaker 2: it caters to be married, and so single folks are 377 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 2: just like, oh my gosh, I've got to get part 378 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 2: I got to be partner, I gotta be married. I'm like, 379 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 2: absolutely not. So I'm really trying to be stigmat singlehood 380 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 2: and have people know that there's nothing wrong with you 381 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: being single. You can stand very comfortably and confidently in 382 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 2: your singleness. And I think as we start to continue 383 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: to have these kinds of conversations, we start to be 384 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 2: sympathizing in and people feel more comfortable scanning in their singleness. 385 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: Well, now not only are you single, but you a 386 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: childless cat lady. 387 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 2: In that part. 388 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also not only just being single. It's 389 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: the choice now that many women are making not to 390 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: have children, and that seems to be a whole nother 391 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 1: disease that we carry. What do you mean by the 392 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: Love Jones? What do you mean by that? 393 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 2: Well, there's two reasons why if fy to call the 394 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: book Love Jones Cohort. One reason is that if you 395 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 2: get at a really cool title for a book, people 396 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: will die just by the book. It because of the title. 397 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 2: Thank God for that right. But the other is why 398 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: I really wanted to call it the Love Jones Cohort. 399 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 2: So it's based on the movie Love Jones. And it's 400 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,719 Speaker 2: based on a demographic term, which is cohort. Cohort just 401 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: means a band of people. So when I started write 402 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 2: to school way back in the Stone Ages, I noticed 403 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 2: that I was being trained at the demographer, and I've 404 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 2: noticed that marriage rates were changing for all racial and 405 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 2: ethnic groups, but way more pronounced for Black Americans. And 406 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 2: so my sisters and I we bought a house on 407 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: this in Lamart Park in Love Angeles, California, and two 408 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 2: other people, single people bought houses on mar Street and 409 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, I really think that 410 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 2: there's this demographic shipt in married couple. I mean in 411 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: middle class couple that married couples to young black professionals 412 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 2: who aren't married and don't have children, like the characters 413 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 2: in Love Jones. So pop culture kind of saw what 414 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 2: was happening, but the academics were slow to get on 415 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 2: the board with what was happening. So I wanted to 416 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 2: pay respect to the movie Love Jones because that's where 417 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 2: you start to see this demographic shift from this traditional 418 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 2: kind of middle class family like we think about the 419 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: Huxtables on the Kywsky Show. Two are like, you know, 420 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: middle class or upper middle class, we have two point 421 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: five children and the black picket fence. We now start 422 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 2: to see this demographic and the Love Jones where they're single, 423 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 2: they're trying to drop their lives and so on and 424 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 2: so forth. So I put the two terms together, an 425 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 2: academic term and a pop culture term, and I can 426 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: help with the term the Love Jones cohort and its 427 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 2: subtitle is Signal and Living ap blone in the black 428 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 2: meddle class. 429 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 3: Oh that's good, that's good. 430 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: I want you to give me a better explanation about that, 431 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: and we're going to do that right after this break. Alrighty, 432 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: if you're just joining us here on the R Spot 433 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: today we're talking about being single and being middle class. 434 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: My guest today is doctor Chris Marsh and we are 435 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: glad to have her. Start thinking out there. How do 436 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: you feel about being single? Or what are your questions 437 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: about being single? What are your challenges being single? Whether 438 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: you have children or not. Do you talk about being 439 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: single and a parent in your book? 440 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: No, I actually don't talk about single parents in my book. 441 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 2: I left a lot of questions for my graduate student 442 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 2: is to pick up and carry the conversation forward. I'm 443 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 2: actually looking at people that have single, have never been married, 444 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 2: and don't have any children. And one of the reasons 445 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 2: why I use a very strict measure for the book 446 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: is because I wanted to think about, like, these are 447 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 2: middle class folks, they have assets, they have wealth. How 448 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 2: are they going to transfer their wealth? Because there's a 449 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 2: subtle argument in the social science literature that's say, the 450 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: black middle class is not going to be able to 451 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 2: reproduce it self because we don't have a lot of 452 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 2: black married couples. I think what's going to happen is 453 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 2: that the black middle class is going to reproduce itself 454 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 2: in different kind of ways. Because if you look at 455 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 2: the numbers, the second largest household type and the Black 456 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: middle class are people that are single and living alone. 457 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 2: The second largest household type BETWY behind married couples. So 458 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: the question becomes, how are they going to transfer their 459 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 2: wealth if they own a house. Typically you transfer your 460 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 2: wealth from parent to child. It's bequeathed to the child 461 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 2: or to the partner. So I really wanted to talk 462 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 2: to people who didn't have children, had never been married, 463 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 2: and who were they going to transfer their wealth too. 464 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 3: And I don't want to. 465 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 2: Give away all the juicing nuggets in the book, because 466 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: I really want you to buy the book. But they 467 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: used innovative ways to transfer their wealth. They transferred it 468 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 2: to nieces, to nephews, to god children, to friends, to 469 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 2: the children of friends, which I think comes back to 470 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 2: a really important conversation we were having earlier about this 471 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 2: idea of childless cat lady and how just because you 472 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: didn't biologically have a child, that you may not have 473 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 2: this nurturing or you don't mother, and that's one of 474 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: the things we kind of talk about in the book 475 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 2: is that even though we didn't these people did not 476 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 2: biologically have children, they were very nurturing, they were mothering, 477 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: and in a lot of ways they decided to give 478 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 2: their assets to their god children, nieces and nephews and 479 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 2: so on and so forth. 480 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 481 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: Now, now can we talk about the fact that, going 482 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: back to what you said earlier, that you're going to 483 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: marry somebody that looks like you or matches you. So 484 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: you have a lot of black women I guess they're 485 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: middle class professional maybe high income earners who are looking 486 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: for a partner can find a partner that looks like 487 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: them just in terms of race, and then they go 488 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: outside of their race, where do they fit in the cohort? 489 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a whole section that's a really great question. 490 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 2: There's a whole section that talks about interracial dating and 491 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 2: interracial marriage, and so one of the things that's really important. 492 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 2: I was like, I don't I'm not going to value 493 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: you judge about whether or not you want to interracially 494 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 2: date or not. But there's a really great book that 495 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: talks about the digital dating divide, and it talks about 496 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 2: how racism and sexism plays out in the online dating 497 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 2: process and black women are the least likely to get 498 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 2: winked at or to get approached on online dating sources. 499 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 3: And really we are. 500 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,479 Speaker 2: There's a whole it's a wonderful book by the colleague 501 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 2: that read it, it's called The Dating Divide. And when 502 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 2: we are looked at her with that, it's usually for 503 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 2: these stereotypical ideas that were the hyper sexual, hot and 504 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: top or something like that. So I think it's really 505 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 2: important to think about interracial daty and how sometimes some 506 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: of these stereotypical ideas can play out in any kind 507 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: of relationships, but they also can play out dating relationships 508 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 2: as well. 509 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: Now, now let me ask you a question, because are 510 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: you looking primarily at women because there's a lot of 511 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: single middle class men who aren't married. 512 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 3: Are men in the cohort? 513 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 2: Also, men are actually in the cohort? They are And 514 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 2: that was really important to me because I wanted to 515 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 2: make sure that men were not excluded from the conversation. 516 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: And like I said earlier, I also wanted to make 517 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 2: sure that I could send the book to everybody. So 518 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: this is not just a book about black women, because 519 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 2: there are black men that are single as well, And 520 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 2: it's important that we don't get lost in the conversation. 521 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 4: Now. 522 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 2: What also is important, though, is that women do dominate 523 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: the category, but there are men in that group. 524 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: I wonder, if you divorced or widowed, are you still 525 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: considered single? Because when I check off the boxes on applications, 526 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: I don't put divorced, I don't, I don't put widowed. 527 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 3: I put single. 528 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 2: Uh. 529 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: The other day I had what was that feeling out 530 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, and it said married 531 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: sing I put single, and then I wrote right next 532 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: to it, by choice because I don't want because people 533 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: really do think there's something wrong with you. So I 534 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: guess I'm a single middle I'm in a single middle 535 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: class cohort. Okay, And I met a guy who let 536 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: me go back to my bus driver. I met a 537 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: guy who was a bus driver, very very nice to 538 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: his mother, had great relationships with his siblings, and made 539 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: probably two thirds less than I do. And we're having 540 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: a wonderful time. If we were to get married, does 541 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: he become middle class by choice? I mean by association? 542 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: Does he become or do I become working class by association? 543 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: Because in our culture, you become what the husband is. 544 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: If he's Jewish, you become Jewish. If he's Christian, you 545 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: become Christian. Most people don't live culturally, but I do. 546 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: So does he become middle class by marriage? 547 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 2: That's a really great question, and I don't necessarily have 548 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 2: a really great answer, but what I will that's really 549 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 2: something really interesting to think about, right, But what I 550 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 2: will say is, like what we have to understand is 551 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,479 Speaker 2: that I want to go on record saying that I 552 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: am pro marriage. 553 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 4: I believe marriage is a good thing. 554 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 2: I get people that email me, call me, send me 555 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 2: hate mail all the time saying I'm bad for Black America, 556 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: I'm bringing Black America down because I'm not promoting marriage. 557 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 2: I get it all the time, Like you clearly have 558 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 2: not read my book. But I want to go on 559 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 2: record saying that I'm all about marriage when it's done 560 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 2: right and it's a healthy marriage. Now, one of the 561 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: things that we do know is that before marriage was 562 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 2: almost like a vehicle to get into middle class status, 563 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 2: especially for Black women. Marriage doesn't serve the same utility 564 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: and the same purpose that it served before because you 565 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,479 Speaker 2: have a lot of black women who are now middle 566 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 2: class and did not need marriage to get there. 567 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 4: So because they did not need marriage or partnering to 568 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 4: get there. 569 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 2: It's a conversation of like, do they now want to 570 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 2: partner or be married, and what's utility? What does marriage 571 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 2: mean for them? And so it really becomes an interesting conversation. 572 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 2: But I also think that people automatically assume just because 573 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: two people get married, that's automatically go a catapulture and 574 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 2: in middle class status. If two broke folks would high 575 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 2: debt get married, that's just two broke folks married. 576 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 4: What a whole lot of debt. 577 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 2: People think marriage is a panacea, which I think becomes 578 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 2: a really interesting conversation. 579 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 4: But I want to take the law route to get 580 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 4: to this comment real quick. I have a dear friend 581 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 4: of mine who. 582 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: Always used to say, like, I like leiskinned woman, I 583 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 2: like leiskined woman, I like light skined woman. Though he 584 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: used to be a friend, and so one day I 585 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 2: just said to him, no, you don't. And I gave 586 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: a real long, pregnant pause, and then I said, you know, 587 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 2: I really respect you. If you would say I've been 588 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 2: conditioned from a very young age to think white is 589 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 2: right and closer to white. 590 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 4: Is right, i'd respect you. But if you're sitting here 591 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 4: saying that this is just your preference structure. That's just 592 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 4: not the case. In a similar way, I admonish. 593 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 2: People to ask themselves, why do you want to be married? 594 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 2: It's a simple question, but it has some deep implications. 595 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 2: We have been taught from a very young age we're 596 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 2: supposed to have the white wedding, and I mean the 597 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 2: white dress, and so on and so forth. Why do 598 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,959 Speaker 2: you want to be married? Ask yourself that question, and 599 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 2: sit with that uncomfortable question and see what your answer is. 600 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 2: Because we have a and I love the podcast because 601 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 2: it's all about relationship. We put a lot of emphasis 602 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 2: in the romantic relationship, but there are a ton of 603 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 2: non romantic nurturing relationships and give us so much pleasure 604 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 2: and are so rewarding to us that we're putting all 605 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 2: of our eggs in the romantic basket and sometimes forsaken 606 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 2: our non romantic nurturing relationships also known as friends. 607 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 3: Listen, why do I want to be married? I don't. 608 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: I don't, And even now when I do choose to 609 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: be partnered a couple, we're going. 610 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 3: To each have to have our own house. 611 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to live with anybody, you know, my 612 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: closets are already full. I don't want to have to 613 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: move closets. And another thing that I notice about women, 614 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: they say they want to be in relationship, but there's 615 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: no room in their life for a partner, you know, 616 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: whether it's man or woman, whatever, fruit nuts, berries, whatever 617 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: it is you're choosing, there's no room. 618 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 3: You don't have a. 619 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: Dresser drawer for them, you don't have closet space for them. Ah, 620 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: but maybe that means that you'll have to get a 621 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: house together. Let me ask you, qu Let me ask 622 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: you a question about these middle class people. Okay, here's 623 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: a question for you. So you middle class and he 624 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: middle class? Does he move in your house? Do you 625 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: move in his house? Or do y'all get a house together? 626 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: This is let me get let me get ready. Okay, 627 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: what do you do? Because when you pour chances off, 628 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: whoever got the best house, the other person moves in. 629 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: Unfortunately most of the time that's the woman. The woman 630 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: has the better house and he moves in there. But 631 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: when you middle class and both of y'all he got 632 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: a condo, you got a house where y'all go? 633 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 3: What you do? 634 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 4: I want to answer that in two ways. 635 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 2: One I want to say whatever works best for them, right, 636 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 2: I was like, don't worry about what nobody else says, 637 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 2: like that's your house while you have person whatever works 638 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 2: best for you. 639 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 4: But the other way I want to answer that question 640 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 4: two is I want to say, so. 641 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 2: Often we police black women and what they do, what 642 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 2: they say, how we talk how our hair is. 643 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 4: How big our butt is or how big our butt ain't. 644 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 2: How our hair is natural, how our ain't natural, How 645 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 2: you coming for our eyelashes, how you ain't coming for 646 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 2: our eyelashes. At the end of the day, that is exhausting. 647 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: Let black women be and let them do what they 648 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 2: want to do. If you and your bood decided you 649 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 2: want to move into his house, fine, If you want 650 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 2: to move into her house, that is perfectly fine. 651 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 4: But just let black women be. 652 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 2: Why are we constantly policing black women and tell them 653 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 2: what they should and should not do. Well. 654 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to tell nobody what they should and 655 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: should not do, But I want to be with somebody 656 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: I know can pay the mortgage or at least contribute half. 657 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: I'm good with the half. I'm good with the half. 658 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: Can you pay half the mortgage, I'll split it with 659 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: you okay. 660 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 2: And see for some people it's like, you know, I 661 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 2: just want a warm body. You ain't got to worry 662 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 2: about the financers. Some people like, we come into this 663 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 2: thing fifty to fifty whatever they want to do. 664 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 4: I don't think what we shouldn't do is we shouldn't 665 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:54,719 Speaker 4: just judge them. 666 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that anybody is doing that or 667 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 2: people will do that, but just let people do whatever 668 00:33:59,040 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 2: works best for them. 669 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 3: Oh, people do do it. 670 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: People do do it, and we dismiss people, the middle 671 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: class people. We will dismiss people because they don't meet it. 672 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: They may have the education and not the salary, or 673 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: they may have the salary and not the education. I'm 674 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: saying both ways. Men do it to women, women do 675 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: it to men. Thank you so much, doctor Marsh. Thank 676 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in for listening today. I 677 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 1: hope you got something here today. Go get the book 678 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 1: The Love Jones Cohort. It's about being single, being middle 679 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: class and living alone and how to make the best 680 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: of that. Remember, doctor Marsh said, flip through them first 681 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: two chapters. She's an academician. She is you know, she's 682 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: an educator. So get through those first two chapters, get 683 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: in the rest of them, Get to the home depot, 684 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: go to the airport. 685 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 3: No, I'm just season. Enjoy, Enjoy, enjoy. 686 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 1: Thank you, doctor marsh, thank you for joining the community today, 687 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: and y'all out there, I'm going to see you all 688 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: next time. I hope that you know something now that 689 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: you didn't know when you tuned in. And until we 690 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: meet again, stay in peace and not pieces. I'll see 691 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: you next time. Bye. The R Spot is a production 692 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 693 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 694 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.