1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 2: I'm welcome to Steff I've never told you a production 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio, and welcome to another edition of Female First, 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: the first of twenty twenty four, which means we are 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: once again joined by the wonderful, the winsome, the fantastic Eves. 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 3: Welcome you, Hey, y'all, Happy New Year, Happy twenty twenty four. 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 3: Still get used to say in that year, me too, 8 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 3: me too. 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: Very confused because that was an exploration date all my stuff. 10 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: I was like, that's next year, and I was like, wait, 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: oh no, this happens. Samantha, Hey, drinkety keep going. 12 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: Yes, well, it is so good to have you with us, Eves, 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: because we didn't we weren't able to have you for 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: the last month the year of twenty twenty three, so 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: we have some catching up to do. 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 3: How have you been What have you been up to? 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 3: I've been up to figure out what the heck is 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 3: going on in this new year? 19 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: Pretty much. 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 3: What have I been up to? I didn't really do 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 3: much for the New Year. For the holidays, I just 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: kind of stuck around. It's been pretty quiet for this 23 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 3: for the end of the year. But I think this 24 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 3: new year is off and running to a good start. 25 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 3: I'm writing things I love, I'm reading good things. Yeah, 26 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 3: so I'm looking forward to the rest of twenty twenty 27 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 3: four and seeing what happens. Nice. 28 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: Nice it is. We we had a podcast episode about 29 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: this recently. Smith and I both really don't do anything 30 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 2: for New Year's either. But one of the things that 31 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 2: I love to do is just write whatever I want 32 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: to write, read whatever I want to do, read whatever 33 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: I want to read. 34 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm down with that completely. So nice. Yeah. 35 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: I didn't really make any I made some list for 36 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 3: things that I want to like, things that I'm aiming 37 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: for this year because or some big things that I'm 38 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: aiming for. But I don't feel too attached to anything, 39 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 3: like I think that the way things are pacing out 40 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 3: and things that are happening already in the beginning of 41 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: the year, I feel like I'm going in a good direction. 42 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 3: I don't need to be forcing anything, you know, trying 43 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 3: to hold on to anything too tightly that I have planned. 44 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 3: So I don't know. I got I got some things 45 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: that I'm I'm looking at that I wrote down, you know, 46 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: that I put out into the world, and then I'm 47 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 3: focused on, but I'm going with the flow. Yeah. 48 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 2: Nice. Yes, we did learn a fun fact about you, 49 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: and that is the UFC. 50 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: Yes, do guilty. 51 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: Okay, that's amazing. I think that's hilarious because that's just 52 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: so different from your personality that I'm like, that's what 53 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: you enjoy. That makes sense in my head of like 54 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: the opposite. 55 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: You don't think I like to watch people beat other 56 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: people up. 57 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: And that would not be something I would assume immediately, 58 00:02:59,000 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: that's not the first thing. 59 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, I wish I had the skills. I kinda like, 60 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: I don't want to get beat up. I say that 61 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 3: every time I watched it. I don't. I just I 62 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: don't want to be hit in the face. I don't 63 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 3: want scars, I don't want cauliflower ear. I don't want 64 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 3: to be healing injuries all the time. I've been to 65 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 3: physical therapy multiple times in my life, and it is 66 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 3: a process. I don't want to have to go through 67 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 3: strict eating and regimens. I don't want to have to 68 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: be so serious about maintaining a certain schedule of exercise. 69 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 3: Like I like, you know, I'm good without those things, 70 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 3: but I do wish I had the fighting skills. 71 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: At the same time, I do wish I could have, 72 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: like have the combat skills as well, and like just 73 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: in case, you know those you know, imagine moments like 74 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: what if this happens, would I be able to do 75 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: these reactionary things? But in general, like the thought of 76 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: being hit, no, thank you. 77 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: The one thing about it, though, is that you really 78 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: realize how important skill is when it comes to combat. 79 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 3: It's like sometimes people, you know, people can be way 80 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 3: bigger than another person, but they just don't have the 81 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 3: skill that they have and whatever the skill may be, 82 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 3: like if it's grappling, it's like one person may not 83 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 3: know how to get out of a certain position because 84 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 3: they just don't have the skill. And you can be 85 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 3: so much smaller than them. And maybe when it comes 86 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 3: to power or strengths, you may have that over them, 87 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: but they can still they can still kill you, they 88 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 3: can still injure you. True very very deeply, and it's interesting, 89 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: it's very very primitive. There are a lot of times 90 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,799 Speaker 3: when I'm watching and I'm looking at the crowd yelling 91 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: ridiculous things and seeing people just like fighting for fifteen 92 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 3: minutes in oct to God, and I'm like, yeah, that's 93 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 3: what humanity's about timeshah, ancient ancient history that I'm watching 94 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 3: with a lot of other politics wrapped up into right 95 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 3: right that aside, you know, good old fashion, clean fun. 96 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: Clean fun. You know. One of my favorite segments is 97 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: when those really big burly dudes have never had any training, 98 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: but they work out, want to challenge the UFCU women 99 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: and then they get their asses handed to them. That's 100 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: my favorite thing to watch, honestly, Like last see TikTok 101 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: clips of that. I'm like, yes, that is satisfaction. And 102 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: seeing like this one hundred and thirty pound woman because 103 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: she's all muscle with this two hundred and fifty pound 104 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: dude who's like I could take her, and then being 105 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: like taken out in like two seconds and in a 106 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: chokehold and asleep. I'm like, yeah, yeah, now I do 107 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: enjoy that. Yeah yeah. 108 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 3: And I think with sports, because I don't watch a 109 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 3: lot of other sports, it's really fun to look at 110 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: people like I've learned a lot over the years of 111 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 3: watching it, like knowing what to look for when people 112 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: are more skilled than other people, when I'm pretty sure 113 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 3: I know how a fight's gonna go. But it's cool 114 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 3: to watch people and be like, you're not gonna get this. 115 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 3: You need to do this, you need to do that. Meanwhile, 116 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 3: I know nothing. I've never thought. I've never done any 117 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 3: sort of martial arts. Definitely haven't done mixed martial arts. 118 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 3: But you know, you get to be on the other 119 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 3: side of skirt the screen and just judge them. 120 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: And yelling commentator. That sounds like that. You need to try. 121 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 3: I pretend to be I do pretend to be a 122 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 3: commentation when I watch. 123 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: I need you to try one time around for a 124 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: good fight and then just be commentator. That would be phenomenal. 125 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 3: You know, that would be fun. But I think about it. 126 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 3: It's funny because you know, we all podcasters, so we 127 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 3: talk a lot. We do it for work. But when 128 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 3: I watch commentators, I'm like, that's a lot of talking. 129 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 3: They do so much filler talking it is to do. 130 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 3: They say the same things in different ways, which honestly, 131 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 3: I am very inspired by. I guess I speaker. They 132 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 3: know how to say the same thing over and over 133 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 3: in nine million different ways. And I you know, I 134 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 3: can't help, but I can't deny the legitimacy and the 135 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 3: skill in that you have to get. 136 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: A catchphrase is what I found like in most like 137 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: commentators that you know so that they can be redone 138 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: by others and you know immediately who it is, like. 139 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 3: The different football. 140 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: I love soccer when it's the Irish commentators or Scottish 141 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: commentators where they just get angry. It's the players. Those 142 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: are my favorites. 143 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: But I've never a skill. 144 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: Oh, I don't have to find something because they just 145 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: get yelled at about being a pansy and they need 146 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: to get up because they're like, so it's become and 147 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: I don't. I can't play soccer. I can't imagine the 148 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: strengthening itself. But a lot of the times different players 149 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: would try to get fouls penalties rather I guess, and 150 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: so would kind of dramatically fall or do these things. 151 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: And so some Scottish amidators would get really pissed off 152 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: about it and would just scream at the at the 153 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: tell them didn't get telling them to get up and 154 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: stop doing this because they were getting so upset by 155 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: all the penalties and constant stopping. That's really funny. 156 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 3: It does seem like it would be frustrating. 157 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:21,239 Speaker 1: So anyway, I think you should take it on one guest. 158 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 3: Maybe if you need to mind. Wait, get this done. Yeah, 159 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: and then you should come up with your persona. 160 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: We never were in a fantasy world going to be 161 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: a fighter. I mean that's the fun part in my opinion. 162 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, So we're giving you like homework to 163 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 3: ask well, yeah, thanks for that very long to do list. 164 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: Yes, it's important. It's important to you need to be wrong. 165 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 2: I was going to do a transition about breaking down 166 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 2: things that haven't aged well. Now that relates to who 167 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 2: we're talking about today, because you were kind of talking 168 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: about that with UFC. But I say, let's just go 169 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: into no we got you the first time. Annie, Yes, 170 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 2: who did you bring for us to talk about today? 171 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 3: Eaves? So today we'll be talking about Drusilla Dungee Houston. 172 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 3: So I guess if we're talking about things that haven't 173 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 3: aged well, she did talk a lot about ancient history. 174 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 3: A lot of her work was focused on that. She 175 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 3: cared a lot about history and sharing history and educating 176 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 3: people on history. And there are some things in her 177 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 3: work that are disputed, have been kind of shot down, 178 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 3: and there are other things that have lasted and have 179 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: aged well. So I think there is somewhere we can 180 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 3: go with that, Annie, we have a transition. So Drusilla 181 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 3: Dungee Houston was the earliest African American woman to write 182 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 3: a multi volume study of ancient Africa. So she has 183 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 3: a long history of writing about history. And yeah, I'm 184 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 3: excited to share her story with everyone today. 185 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, this one is another fascinating one I didn't 186 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: know about. So thank you as always. Shall we get 187 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: into the history, yes we shall so. 188 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 3: Drusilla Dunchee Houston was born in January of eighteen seventy 189 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 3: six in Harper's Ferry in West Virginia. So her parents 190 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 3: were Reverend John William Dungee and Lydia and Taylor Dungee. 191 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 3: So they have their own history and the way that 192 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 3: they brought up Drusilla Dunchee Houston factored a lot into 193 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 3: the direction that she chose to go in because John 194 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 3: was an educator, he was a publisher, and he was 195 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 3: a missionary who had founded Baptist churches across the United 196 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 3: States that were mostly in rural areas. He was born 197 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 3: into slavery and he escaped in and he made his 198 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 3: way to Canada, but eventually he came back to the States. 199 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 3: And so John and Lydia went around the South building churches. 200 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 3: They were members of the American Baptist Home Missionary Society. 201 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 3: And that's how Houston herself too became devoted to the 202 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 3: Baptist Church throughout her life because that's something that was 203 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: really part of her early life. It is something that 204 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 3: her parents instilled in her at one point. This is 205 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: later in Houston's history, but she even said in this 206 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 3: response letter that she wrote to someone who was talking 207 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: down about the church. She said, quote, the faith of 208 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 3: the Negro race is the hope of America. So she 209 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 3: instilled a lot of importance. She placed a lot of 210 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 3: importance upon faith, specifically the Christian faith. It guided a 211 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 3: lot of what she did. It was the reason that 212 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 3: she wrote. It was a thing that was the foundation 213 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: of why she did so much of what she did 214 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 3: when it came to educating people and writing about history 215 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 3: and specifically the history of black people. So Houston had 216 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 3: nine siblings, but only four of them lived to adulthood 217 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 3: and their names were Roscoe, Irving, Plant, and Ella. So 218 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 3: her siblings also did notable things. Her brother, Roscoe, he 219 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 3: was an activist and he was the owner and editor 220 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: of the newspaper Black Dispatch, which is out of Oklahoma 221 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 3: and after John who was Houston's father, after he died, Roscoe, 222 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 3: Houston's brother, supported the family. He would sell vegetables, and 223 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 3: Houston's other brother, Irving, was a managing editor of the 224 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 3: Chicago Enterprise and an editor of the Negro Champion, which 225 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 3: was out of New York. So Houston she went to 226 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 3: finishing schools when her family lived in the Northern States, 227 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 3: but she didn't go to college, and the family moved 228 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 3: to Oklahoma Territory in eighteen ninety two, and they were 229 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 3: pretty well off. And Houston, even kind of later, really 230 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 3: places a lot of importance on how well she was. 231 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: She was like, I know my class, and I know 232 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 3: that I didn't go to college, but my parents had 233 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 3: a lot of books and we had a lot of 234 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 3: arts and culture around us. She did do a little 235 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: bit of that in her writing, which was interesting, but hey, 236 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 3: if you got it, flaunted, I guess. So she studied 237 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 3: music and went to the Northwestern Conservatory of Music in Minnesota. 238 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 3: She studied classical piano, and there are stories of how 239 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 3: she played piano for people and she gave poetry readings 240 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: that peoples get togethers, which sounds pretty swinky and She 241 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 3: had plans to be a concert pianist, but that didn't happen. 242 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 3: She switched her focus and from eighteen ninety two to 243 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: till around the turn of the century she worked as 244 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 3: a kindergarten teacher in Oklahoma. In eighteen ninety eight, she 245 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,599 Speaker 3: married a man named Price Houston. He was apparently a 246 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 3: businessman who was twenty years older than her. I didn't 247 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 3: really know much about him, but I do know that 248 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 3: she had two children with him, one named Florence and 249 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 3: the other one was a daughter who died pretty young. 250 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 3: But Houston she opened McAllister Seminary for Girls in Oklahoma, 251 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 3: and she let that school for twelve years. She also 252 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 3: wrote a screenplay in nineteen fifteen called The Madden Mob, 253 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 3: which was written as a refutation of Birth of a Nation. 254 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 3: And in nineteen seventeen she went to Sepolpa, Oklahoma, and 255 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: she served as the principal of the Oklahoma Baptist College 256 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 3: for Girls, and there she stayed as the director and 257 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 3: the principal of the school until nineteen twenty three. She 258 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 3: also started the Oklahoma Vocational Institute of Fine Arts and Crafts, 259 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 3: which was a private school, so she did a bunch 260 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: of work in the school space. She was very invested 261 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: in the education specifically of black children, but also like 262 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 3: reading and education in general. She talked a lot about 263 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 3: how everybody needed to be educated, specifically about black history 264 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 3: and black history in the ways she was talking about it, 265 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: which we'll get to a little bit later, but she 266 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: cared a lot about it. And there is a scholar 267 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: her name is doctor Peggy Brooks Bertram, who I'm going 268 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 3: to be referring to more in this episode, because she 269 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 3: has been really invested in the history of the Dundee family, 270 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: especially Houston, and she wrote a lot about them, did 271 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 3: a lot of research, So I'm going to refer to 272 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 3: things she said in some of the research that she 273 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 3: has done quite a bit in this episode. One thing 274 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 3: that doctor Brooks Bertram said about Houston was that she 275 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 3: was quote an extraordinarily private woman who felt compelled to 276 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 3: thrust herself into the major social and political dialogues of 277 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 3: her era end quote. So that makes a lot of 278 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 3: sense because of her upbringing. Apparently her father didn't really 279 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 3: want novels in the house, which is for because I 280 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 3: love novels, love fiction, But I guess he was about 281 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 3: that nonfiction and that clearly showed up in her in 282 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 3: the work that Houston did. So Houston was involved in 283 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 3: her brother, Roscoe's newspaper. So this was a whole clearly 284 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 3: also having to do with the way their parents raised them. 285 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 3: The whole family was invested in journalism and scholarship, in 286 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 3: literary works, in political action and philosophy. You know, they 287 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 3: were invested in all of those spheres of interest. And 288 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 3: her brother Roscoe had a newspaper, the Black Dispatch, and 289 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 3: according to doctor Brooks Bertram, between nineteen fourteen and nineteen 290 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: thirty nine, Houston wrote more than two thousand editorials, so 291 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 3: she was busy with her pen. And Houston was also 292 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: a lecturer on African history. She was a self taught historian, 293 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: and she did a lot of independent research using all 294 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 3: of the blok that her family had in her library 295 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 3: and other ones that she came across in her independent research. 296 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 3: And this is where in her story we get to 297 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 3: the major focus of her biography. One of the things 298 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 3: that she's the most remembered for. So I think it 299 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: is you know, this happened so many times in people's 300 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 3: work that there is one large seminal text that is 301 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 3: the thing that they're really well remembered for. But Houston 302 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 3: did have, like I just said, she had two thousand editorials, 303 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 3: so she did have a wealth of writing. But it 304 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 3: seemed like this she considered this her what would you 305 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 3: call it, magnum opus as well, this book because she 306 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: was kind of like she had some comments where she said, yeah, 307 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 3: I did a bunch of those editorials and all that stuff, 308 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 3: but the serious thing, No, that's all the work that 309 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 3: I did in this research is ancient history. And the 310 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 3: work that I'm referring to is Wonderful Ethiopians, the ancient 311 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 3: Kushite Empire. That's the work. That is the thing that 312 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 3: she focused on in her life that she spent many 313 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 3: years working on, and she really cared a lot about 314 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 3: and she cares so much about people being able to 315 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 3: read it and understand the history that she was talking 316 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 3: about in the book, talking about Kushite as in kush 317 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 3: the ancient kingdom in Northern Africa, and she said that W. E. B. 318 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 3: Duboce's book The Negro was her inspiration for writing Wonderful Ethiopians. 319 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 3: And this is selfishly one of my favorite parts of 320 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 3: her story because I love beefs and this was kind 321 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 3: of a beef between two notable people to people who 322 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 3: were really intelligent and really invested in the work that 323 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 3: they were doing, really cared about black culture and about 324 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 3: black history. And this part of story is really really 325 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 3: interesting to me because she said she was inspired by 326 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 3: the negro W. E. B. Du Boyce's book, but Dubois 327 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 3: didn't mention it in his publication The Crisis, which I 328 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 3: mean was a very important publication. He said he would 329 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 3: mention it in there. And when she wrote to him 330 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 3: telling him about her book, he told her basically that 331 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 3: she needed to study a little bit more before writing 332 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 3: about ancient history. He was like, oh, yeah, this book 333 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 3: is very interesting, thank you for sending it to me, 334 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: But hm, I think you need to return to your 335 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 3: studies if you're going to write things that people can read. 336 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 3: And so understandably, she kind of took offense to that. 337 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that's why I started writing like I'm I've studied, 338 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: I know this level. I'm high class made like correspond 339 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: to him to embassy? 340 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 3: Did she did? And she responded back to him kind 341 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: of saying that where she was like, excuse me, I 342 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: don't need your white institutions to validate the work that 343 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 3: I do. I have a bunch of books in my life, 344 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 3: and well, you know, my family had a bunch of 345 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 3: books in their library. I've done my own research, you know, 346 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 3: I've created this whole book based on so many other 347 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: sources that I've read. So after this point, she really 348 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 3: came in heavy and came in hot with the criticism 349 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 3: in public and in private of Dubois, which was rough 350 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 3: because I know a lot of people who are listening 351 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 3: here will be familiar with W. E. B. Dubois. He 352 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 3: really was very influential in the literary world, in the 353 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 3: social world, political sphere at the time, so that was 354 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 3: a heavy target. You know, he wasn't a small target 355 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: to come up against. But she was not playing. She 356 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 3: was defending, you know, her own legitimacy and the importance 357 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: of work. But it was also hard one because women 358 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 3: were reliant on men for publication at the time. They 359 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 3: were the ones who were the liaisons and the ones 360 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 3: who ran these publishers, and so you needed these kinds 361 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 3: of connections to be able to get your work out 362 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 3: to more people. And of course Houston wanted to do 363 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 3: that because you really cared about more people knowing this 364 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 3: ancient history, and you know, on top of meeting men 365 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 3: in general for publication, it was Due Boys. So a 366 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 3: lot of people were in love with Due Boys because 367 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 3: of who he was and what he could do for people, 368 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 3: and rightfully so, he was a very notable scholar in 369 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 3: his own right. So the way that it seemed to 370 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 3: me because of how people responded, you know, they weren't 371 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 3: going to take too well to this woman who they 372 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 3: didn't know, Houston, who they were just being introduced to, 373 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 3: versus this big, this figure with this stature of Dubois, 374 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 3: are like, well, who are you coming up against? 375 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: You? 376 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 3: Boys? So in my mind I kind of see this 377 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 3: as a cancelation in a way because Houston, she didn't 378 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 3: her book didn't do amazingly well. It didn't get into 379 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 3: as many spaces as she wanted it to get into. 380 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 3: So that is a fascinating part of her story, I 381 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 3: feel like, and it goes deeper than that, and you can, 382 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 3: you know, you can see that in the public criticism 383 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: that she had of du Bois, where she would come 384 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 3: up against him, where she was louding him before in 385 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 3: newspapers and magazine, she started going in the other direction 386 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 3: and really calling him out in a negative way. So, yeah, 387 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 3: beef in history, that's amazing, but okay. So but on 388 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 3: the book, it was published in nineteen twenty six, and 389 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 3: this was volume. It was subtitled Nations of the Kushite 390 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 3: Empire Marvelous Facts from Authentic Records. Like I said earlier, 391 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 3: she couldn't really get access to these white publishing houses 392 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 3: that were publishing a lot of black text at the time, 393 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 3: so she established Ethiopian Press and she used the Black 394 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 3: Dispatches printing presses to make her book. So this was 395 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 3: a self publishing effort, and at first five hundred copies 396 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 3: were printed and they were sold for two dollars and 397 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 3: fifty cents, which would be about forty three dollars today. 398 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 3: But she couldn't market the book because her own funds 399 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 3: were wrapped up in this thing, and so she sold 400 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 3: it through mail order. So at this time was in 401 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 3: nineteen twenty so this was during the Harlem Renaissance. There 402 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 3: was a lot of focus on black work, on black culture, literature, poetry, 403 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 3: and fiction. But Houston herself, she wasn't really a fan 404 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: of the Harlem Renaissance kind of work. She was more 405 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 3: interested in history than she was in art and she 406 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 3: was kind of like upset about how people were gravitating 407 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 3: more toward the arts than history, which is very interesting 408 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 3: to me. I know that, you know, when you have 409 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 3: a work and you have this text that you work 410 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 3: so hard on, you really got to you gotta be 411 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 3: your own biggest fan. You got to root for yourself. 412 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 3: And I understand that part of me wonders, you know. 413 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 3: And I also know like when you're working on a 414 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 3: work that's that big, it can feel like the entire 415 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 3: world is revolving around it. So that part is really 416 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 3: interesting to me because it's not as if all those 417 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 3: things can't coexist together. And a lot of people who 418 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 3: were involved in the arts and during the Harlem Renaissance 419 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: period were obviously like making a lot of progress when 420 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 3: it came to writing works that were true to them 421 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 3: that they were able to get into larger mainstream attention. 422 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 3: But yeah, so it was important too, Like it's still obviously, 423 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 3: you know, everybody does, I care about history too, So 424 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 3: of course that's still important. But yeah, at the end 425 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 3: of volume one, she says that book two she mentions 426 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 3: a book too, and says that it gives more authentic 427 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 3: information upon this subject than any other book extant. So 428 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 3: these books she was it was there were kind of 429 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 3: a correction of the record, a way to uplift the 430 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 3: black history and how its origins were in Africa, specifically 431 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 3: the Nile Valley. She referred to it as a cradle 432 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 3: of civilization and was going up against this racist history 433 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 3: that was put forth by many archaeologists. So it's been 434 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 3: referred to of kind of like race writing or racial 435 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 3: uplift writing. But I don't want to downplay the work 436 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 3: because she was very focused in research and focused in 437 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 3: history in the work that she did. However, that original 438 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 3: publication didn't have a bibliography, it didn't have footnotes, it 439 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 3: didn't have endnotes or an index, which was standard for 440 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 3: this kind of factual writing at the time as it 441 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 3: is now. And so she got praised for her work 442 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 3: of how deeply she dug into this ancient history, how 443 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 3: she was refuting a history that revolved around European history 444 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 3: and how integral people in Africa and what she considered 445 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 3: the cradle of civilization to be. But she also got 446 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: criticism for not having sources listed in her work for 447 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 3: any of those things. So people were kind of like, yeah, 448 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 3: you're saying a lot and this is really fascinating and 449 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 3: it looks like you did your work, but I just 450 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 3: can't see your work. So that was also, you know, 451 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 3: a very real and a very valid child lenge for 452 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 3: people reading her work and trying to suss out the 453 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 3: credibility in her work and where the plausible deniability was. 454 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 3: She also got criticism for her language being too flowery, 455 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 3: though she said that she did that on purpose. She 456 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 3: made it less technical in order to reach people who 457 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 3: were new to the info that she was presenting. So 458 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 3: that makes sense too with her background, because she really 459 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,239 Speaker 3: cared about educating children and people across all borders. She said, Oh, 460 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 3: I want this. I want white people to read this. 461 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 3: I want black people to read this. I want white 462 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 3: people to read this to see where they've gone wrong 463 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 3: and how they're misunderstand everything when it comes to history, 464 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 3: how they deny because of racism, that the greatness and 465 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 3: the splendor and the importance and the vastness of knowledge 466 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 3: that came from this area of the world. I want 467 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 3: everybody to read it. She wanted to sell enough books 468 00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 3: to be able to put out a second a day, 469 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 3: and she wanted it to go to all kinds of places, 470 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 3: so She wanted it to be in the classroom, you know, 471 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 3: she wanted, you know, individuals to be able to read 472 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 3: the book. So she really cared about disseminating this knowledge. 473 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 3: She said that slavery had broke black folks in the 474 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 3: diaspora's knowledge of the greatness of our origin. So it 475 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 3: was very important for us to unlearn all of these 476 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: things that we were learning as standards in the curriculum 477 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 3: and classrooms. We were in learning about this European history, 478 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 3: but we weren't connecting it back to this ancient African history. 479 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 3: And she wanted that connection to be made. And she 480 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 3: said that a lot of that was broken because of 481 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 3: the institution of slavery and how that separated people from 482 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 3: knowledge of their own actual history and therefore also the 483 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 3: greatness of that history. So really was the work that 484 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 3: she cared a lot about. And according to doctor Brooks Bertram, 485 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 3: her work quote seriously challenged the belief that women writers 486 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 3: should limit themselves to poetry, novels, short stories, and place 487 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 3: because that was kind of the sphere that women could 488 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 3: have been expected to work in at the time. I mean, 489 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 3: we know that this was an accomplishment, like Houston was 490 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 3: a pioneer in this field for women. There were men 491 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 3: who were writing about work, who were writing about ancient 492 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 3: history as it related to Africa, but there weren't many 493 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 3: women who were doing this and doctor Brooks Bertram said 494 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 3: that Houston's work also challenged the idea that a person 495 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 3: had to be a PhD. To be a historian, which 496 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 3: is something that Houston herself railed against obviously in her 497 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 3: communications with Dubois, but in general she went forth with 498 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 3: her work without having to be validated by a degree, 499 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: to do the research and share the research that she did. 500 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 3: So there is some discrepancy around how many volumes actually exist. 501 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: So we know of the first one, the one that 502 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 3: we were just talking about. Houston herself said that she 503 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 3: wrote multiple volumes, maybe around six volumes of this work, 504 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 3: but there's not really a way to validate that because 505 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 3: we don't have a lot of those other works. There 506 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 3: are works that have been listed, like ones including Origin 507 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 3: of the Aryans and one called Cushites of Western Europe, 508 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 3: and there are some other ones that Houston mentioned as well, 509 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 3: but we don't know where any of those are, if 510 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 3: they even exist, if they existed in manuscript form, if 511 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 3: they were ever printed any of that kind of thing. 512 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,479 Speaker 3: Doctor Brooks Bertram did say that she was given a 513 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 3: corrected edition in two thousand and one of Wonderful Ethiopians, 514 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 3: and she said that it was undated but had a bibliography, index, footnotes, 515 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 3: and more chapters, and that the corrections that were included 516 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 3: in that edition may have been made in the late 517 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 3: nineteen twenties or early nineteen thirties. But in the end, 518 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 3: a lot of Houston's work is lost to time, including 519 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 3: some of her fiction, poetry, essays, things like that. But 520 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 3: we have some of it, and we know a little 521 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 3: bit more about Houston's life. We know that she was 522 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 3: an active member of different clubs, like the Federated Women's 523 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 3: Clubs of Oklahoma. We also know that in nineteen thirty 524 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 3: four she served as a religious director of the Oklahoma 525 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 3: Home for Delinquent Boys. She was fluent in different languages, 526 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,479 Speaker 3: and in nineteen thirty six she was interviewed by folks 527 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 3: in the Negro Studies unit of the Federal Writers Project 528 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 3: that was under the Works Progress Administration. But she did 529 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 3: deal with illness for many years of her life. She 530 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 3: was affected by the flu epidemic in nineteen eighteen, and 531 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 3: she later got to berculosis and that was something that 532 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 3: really weighed heavily on her health over the years, and 533 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 3: she ended up dying in February of nineteen forty one 534 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 3: in Arizona, and true to her faith in Christianity, her 535 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 3: headstone says, to die is to gain. Yeah. So in 536 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty five, Wonderful Ethiopians was republished through Black Classic Press, 537 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 3: which publishes obscure and significant works by and about people 538 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 3: of African descent. And she was also recognized posthumously, and 539 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 3: there is a memorial scholarship that's named in her honor 540 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 3: that recognizes emergent women's scholars of African descent. So she 541 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 3: did get recognition. During her time. She was able to 542 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 3: sell some copies of her work, though I imagine is 543 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 3: not as many copies that she would have wanted to sell, 544 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 3: and not as many volumes of the book as she 545 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 3: would have wanted to pass out. But her legacy lives 546 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 3: on in the work of all the other scholars who 547 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,959 Speaker 3: went on to talk about the relate the history of 548 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 3: people in the Black diaspora going back to Africa, showing 549 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 3: how those origins were ones that needed to be uplifted 550 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 3: and ones that needed to be learned about and honored, 551 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 3: and how a lot of the separation from that history 552 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 3: came from the history of the slave trade around the world, 553 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 3: so very noble work, work that was pioneering and happy 554 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 3: to be able to share it today. 555 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 2: I did not know the UFC, the mature at the top, 556 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 2: would have so much, truly, I didn't know there's going 557 00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 2: to be beef exactly. 558 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 3: There was fighting involved, some punches were throwing. She sounds 559 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 3: like a fascinating person. 560 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, like I love her kind of like shunning the 561 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 2: arts and the Harlem Renaissance, like this history way just 562 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 2: what we should be dealing with talking about. 563 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm kind of like, okay, Boomer kind of a 564 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 3: situation like, yeah, like we should be talking about history. 565 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 3: What do you know about that? You're worried about your arts? Yeah, 566 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 3: I mean no, I know she didn't mean it that way. 567 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 3: I'm just joking, no, for sure, But it does have 568 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 3: that kind of because I have a relative who's like that, 569 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 3: who thinks fiction is worthless, like art is worthless, Like 570 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 3: he would be somebody who wouldn't have any non anything 571 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 3: but nonfiction in his home. And I've never understood it. 572 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 3: I don't get it. 573 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 2: But I just when you were sharing that story, I 574 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: was like, yeah, I feel like I know this person. 575 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm there. As you know, there are still 576 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:11,959 Speaker 3: people who who feel this way. 577 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: Yes, you know, I find it fascinating too. Though. She 578 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: was kind of ahead of her time with that needing 579 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: the flowery language so that people can find history accessible, 580 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: like we see that today with historians writing almost fictional 581 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: levels of accounts of what's happening, and they're not fictional, 582 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: but they just draw out into a storytelling so that 583 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: people can read and understand better what was happening during 584 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: his historical times and also bring more interest probably also 585 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: sell more books. 586 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 3: But like she was. 587 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: Ahead of her time in that way in creating something 588 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: that was accessible instead of just being like this is 589 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: what it is. 590 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you, Samanthas, So thanks for bringing 591 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 3: up that point, because, like publishing was a lot different 592 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 3: than than it is now and to get things to 593 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 3: more people's bookshelves because the focus is on you know, 594 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 3: how big can we make this reach? How many people's 595 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 3: shelves can we reach? Home, more money can we make 596 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 3: because of volume, But back then it was more like 597 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 3: well where are your sources there wasn't so much separation 598 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 3: between like, Okay, what kind of balance can we bring 599 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 3: between the factual the facts in this thing and also 600 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 3: the readability of this thing didn't seem to be so 601 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 3: much of a concern back then. But it does seem 602 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 3: like kind of a kind of a pity because she 603 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 3: had something that could touch so many people's hands, but 604 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,479 Speaker 3: it wasn't able to get out there like that because 605 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 3: of the challenges that she had with the actual publishing 606 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 3: process and the holes that were dug with the beef 607 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 3: and your health contributed to it, you know, I know 608 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 3: there was no longitudinal study done on what were the 609 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 3: factors that caused her book to not make it to 610 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 3: more people and fewer people to read it, but yeah, 611 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 3: I'm sure those things did not help a book that 612 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 3: could have been in the interest of way more people. 613 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I also think, you know, I think she 614 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 2: made a very great valid point about the kind of 615 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 2: the PhD thing and that you don't have to because 616 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 2: that can be so like gatekeepy and how much money 617 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 2: do you have and what connections you have in the 618 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 2: first place, and takes so long, which in one way 619 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 2: is yes, that makes sense, and that is good, but 620 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 2: if we were only getting information from from people who 621 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 2: had the time and ability to do that, then it 622 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 2: would be far less that we would have. But it 623 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 2: is also kind of funny because Samantha and I wrote 624 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 2: a book recently and it was a big thing about 625 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 2: the bibliography because we were both like, why can't we 626 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 2: put every source in there? And they were like, only 627 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 2: the ones that you really used, And this confused us 628 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,399 Speaker 2: greatly and we're like, well, if we've listed it, we 629 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 2: used it, because I thought that was just like you 630 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 2: act like common practice, but they had us like go 631 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 2: through and cut out wow only and so only the 632 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 2: ones that we used like a lot from are in 633 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 2: the back and it's more of like a sources listed thing. 634 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 2: But it was just because we've talked about that in 635 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 2: the podcasting world for a long time, is that sometimes 636 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 2: you we used to list our sources and now we don't, 637 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 2: and we still keep them in case anyone asked. But 638 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 2: I always thought when you write a book. 639 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 3: In the back. 640 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,399 Speaker 1: Is a historical contact, Like we didn't make this up. 641 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 2: But it's just interesting hearing this where she got a 642 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 2: lot of flak for not having the sources, and now 643 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 2: today it seems. 644 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 3: They don't want them. They don't care. TikTok is the source. 645 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 3: You can just put TikTok in the back. And they 646 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 3: were like, I saw it on the internet. I'm glad 647 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 3: that next time, next book, y'all just put up put 648 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 3: us on it on the internet and be done with that. 649 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: The publishers like. 650 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great, yeah, perfect, thank you to love it. 651 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,879 Speaker 3: Yes, oh I know about TikTok for me. Yeah. To 652 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 3: be fair, though, I think that there was a little 653 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 3: bit more of a burden of proof on Houston because 654 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 3: of the theory she was espousing. She was put in 655 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 3: for a things. A lot of people were like, hmmm, 656 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 3: I don't know about that. Can you prove it to me? Like, 657 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,720 Speaker 3: this is the origin of civilization, this came from where 658 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 3: you know, we have alternate knowledge. Who are you? They 659 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 3: were like, you know, so they had all these questions. Yeah, 660 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 3: they had a lot of questions. I think because it 661 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 3: was such it was they were such big ideas that 662 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 3: she was putting for. Yes, and I am a big fan. 663 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 2: I think, yes, it's good to have sources and then 664 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 2: you can like look at them up and do more 665 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 2: reading yourself and maybe find out more yourself. It was 666 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 2: just kind of funny to me because we had this 667 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:00,760 Speaker 2: happened with recently. 668 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 3: Yes, I didn't hope it didn't hit home too hard, y'all. 669 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 3: It's okay, We're sorry. 670 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: Sorry, Now we need to find someone to have a 671 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: beef with. 672 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go. 673 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: I'm just like and then we get like all kinds 674 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: of stockersh emails. Right, you don't want we don't care 675 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: about do organ? Yeah? 676 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 3: Take that back, take that back. 677 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,279 Speaker 2: Well, it was a delight as always, Eves, thank you 678 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,280 Speaker 2: so much for sharing this story with us. 679 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 3: Uh, where can the good listeners find you? You can 680 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 3: find me on Instagram at not Apologizing. You can also 681 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 3: go to my website there you can get to all 682 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:59,720 Speaker 3: of the other places. My website is Eve's Jeffcoat dot com. 683 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 3: You can also find me on the podcast on Theme, 684 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 3: which is a podcast about black storytelling. If you want 685 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 3: to learn more about that show, you can go to 686 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 3: wherever you listen to podcasts, or you can go to 687 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 3: on Theme dot show. If you can also hear me 688 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,439 Speaker 3: on many many other episodes of Sminty doing female First 689 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:22,320 Speaker 3: talking about women in history who have pioneering accomplishments. Yes, 690 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 3: and we think we're coming up on a milestone, although 691 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 3: there's confusion about what the milestone is, but we'll Speaking 692 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 3: of record keeping, I'm not doing a great job over 693 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 3: here on Smithty, but we will. 694 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 2: We will look into it in the meantime. Listeners, if 695 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,359 Speaker 2: you would like to contact us, you can. You can 696 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 2: emails at stephaniea mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You 697 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 2: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or 698 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok at stephone Never Told You. We 699 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 2: have a tbelg story and yes we do have a book. 700 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 2: You can get it wherever you get your books. Thanks 701 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 2: as always to our super producer Christina or executive producer 702 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 2: Maya and our contributor Joey. 703 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 3: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. 704 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 2: Steffan Never Told You is production by Heart Radio. For 705 00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 2: more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check out 706 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 2: that heart app, Apple Podcast, orhever you listen to your 707 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 2: favorite shows. 708 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 1: H