Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, welcome in. We're going to have a great
Speaker 2: forty minute chat with John Middlecoff about some NFL storylines.
Speaker 2: He's got great stuff on the Steelers, on the forty
Speaker 2: nine Ers. We talked Russell Wilson and the Denver Broncos
Speaker 2: and Sean Payton Buffalo Bills as well. He's also going
Speaker 2: to talk about the one hundred and twenty third US
Speaker 2: Open at the LA Country Club. You know, it is interesting.
Speaker 2: I've lived in LA now for seven eight years and
Speaker 2: had visited many times, probably fifty times in my life.
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting when you live in Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: the perception of the state of California and the reality
Speaker 2: of the state of California. I drive by the LA
Speaker 2: country Club about once a week. There's the Riviera country Club,
Speaker 2: the Brentwood country Club, the bel Air Country Club, the
Speaker 2: LA Country Club. For a city of this size, considering
Speaker 2: the cost of real estate, there's beautiful, beautiful golf courses
Speaker 2: everywhere in Los Angeles. San Francisco's a beautiful city as well.
Speaker 2: I never thought it was a great golf course city.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong, But going back to Los Angeles, you know,
Speaker 2: and I understand that in cable the way to make
Speaker 2: money is pick aside, very tribal, go left, MSNBC, go
Speaker 2: write Fox News. That's why CNN has really struggled that
Speaker 2: you can't be middle ground. You got to go crazy
Speaker 2: town one direction. You have to go tribal one direction.
Speaker 2: But I find what I find interesting about the criticisms
Speaker 2: of Los Angeles. I have kids that live in Redondo Beach,
Speaker 2: Santa Monica, Silver Lake. I have friends everywhere and Sino East,
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, Torrance, Palos Verde, Long Beach, couple of people
Speaker 2: Long Beach on my staff. What Los Angeles and California.
Speaker 2: The perception outside of Los Angeles in California is like
Speaker 2: nothing I've ever seen in my life. I've never had
Speaker 2: a single person in eight years that I know that
Speaker 2: has been robbed, carjacked, a victim of a crime of note.
Speaker 2: But when I watch the constant haranguing by cable news
Speaker 2: about this city and listen, I know I probably live
Speaker 2: in a nice neighborhood and Colin, you're out of touch.
Speaker 2: But lots of people in Los Angeles live in nice neighborhoods.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of neighborhoods. It's the only city I've
Speaker 2: ever lived in that has three forecasts on the weather, beach, city,
Speaker 2: and desert. It's a vast county. I think Los Angeles
Speaker 2: County could be wrong. Here as nine ten million people.
Speaker 2: And then you know, people will talk about, well, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of people migrating out of Los Angeles and California.
Speaker 2: To that, I say, yes, it is the tech epicenter
Speaker 2: of the world. It's increasingly very expensive. If you don't
Speaker 2: live out west, you do not know how expensive San Francisco, Seattle, Portland,
Speaker 2: even smaller towns Bend, Oregon, Boise, Idaho. Scottsdale's not a
Speaker 2: small town. It's expensive out west. And if you live
Speaker 2: out east, you know. For years there was big money
Speaker 2: because of Wall Street in New York, but four hours
Speaker 2: surrounding New York, small towns, tiny towns in Maine, Rhode Island,
Speaker 2: Connecticut were although also highly affluent. I remember one of
Speaker 2: the first things I noticed when I moved back east
Speaker 2: for ten years, how much money there was in these
Speaker 2: random small towns in the Northeast. It was all driven
Speaker 2: by Wall Street and hedge funds. You'd go into a
Speaker 2: tiny rural town and they have these boutiques with four
Speaker 2: hundred dollars women's blocks, Like, who's buying this style. I'm
Speaker 2: from Washington State. You go rural and it's overalls, it's farmland.
Speaker 2: So enjoy the US Open at the beautiful La Country Club.
Speaker 2: Despite what you hear is a it's a fascinating city
Speaker 2: with thirty one music venues, eight pro teams, tolerant, wonderful people,
Speaker 2: a thriving economy. You know, our traffic can be a
Speaker 2: pain in the ass, but so is Atlantas, so is DC's,
Speaker 2: so is San Francisco. In Dallas and Philadelphia. I just
Speaker 2: I love the US Open. I can't wait to watch.
Speaker 2: It's you know, four or five miles from my house.
Speaker 2: But maybe I'm being too prickly and defensive for living
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles. But I also, as many of you know,
Speaker 2: love Chicago. In Chicago, go in the South Side. You know, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: there are some violence, and there has been for a
Speaker 2: long long time. Chicago and Los Angeles are my two
Speaker 2: favorite cities in the country. I just love the diversity
Speaker 2: of architecture in Chicago. I love the river, the bridges,
Speaker 2: the people, the food, the cultures. So enjoy watching the
Speaker 2: US Open at the La Country Club. I am not
Speaker 2: a member. They would not have me as a member.
Speaker 2: It's a very est LA Country Club is known for
Speaker 2: having business people, no celebrities, no semi celebrities, judges. It's
Speaker 2: very old school. But I can't wait to watch it.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna bring in my buddy John Middlecoff
Speaker 2: Three and Out podcast, former NFL scout on the Volume
Speaker 2: Sports Network also hosts Go Low, our golf podcast US
Speaker 2: Open in Los Angeles. Everybody here's fire up. Everybody I
Speaker 2: know is going except me because I'm doing a podcast.
Speaker 2: All right, John, I want to start with something. In
Speaker 2: the last twenty four hours. I do kind of a
Speaker 2: pre camp standings, and we're through the draft, coaching, free
Speaker 2: agency OTAs. And my only woe was I put Miami
Speaker 2: in first in Buffalo and second. And I had two
Speaker 2: reasons for it. I think Vic Fangio is the most
Speaker 2: underrated coach assistant in the league. I think he's a
Speaker 2: great defensive coordinator. Between he and Jalen Ramsey, I think
Speaker 2: their defense is going to be a handful. Secondly, I
Speaker 2: like the momentum of Mike McDaniel and Tua. I think
Speaker 2: they get better and better and better. I watched them
Speaker 2: out coach Sean McDermott two of the three games last
Speaker 2: year clearly and arguably three of the three games. And
Speaker 2: also the Stefan Diggs story. Something's amiss. Five years in,
Speaker 2: they can't solve the offensive line. They've added more defensive
Speaker 2: linemen at all over gotten extension. I'm not anti defensive
Speaker 2: coach Pete Carroll, Tomlin Belichick obviously very capable. Where what
Speaker 2: do you make of the Stefan Diggs A lot of
Speaker 2: the Instagram stuff, it just for that stuff to go public.
Speaker 2: What did you make of it?
Speaker 1: Well, you know he's had issues before. You know, he
Speaker 1: was he's a winning diva. You know, he won in Minnesota,
Speaker 1: was a very productive player, and they're good teams. But
Speaker 1: he was a lot for them, and they got rid
Speaker 1: of them, and they made one of the great trades
Speaker 1: in recent memory, essentially straight up for a draft pick
Speaker 1: that turned right into Justin Jefferson, right. So it was
Speaker 1: a pretty seamless transition for them, and Digs has been
Speaker 1: excellent for the Bills. I heard you, I think yesterday
Speaker 1: or two days ago, kind of on the Sean McDermott experience,
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about it over the last twenty
Speaker 1: four hours, I think a lot of times, and the
Speaker 1: works for offensive coaches too, And now Shawn's technically the
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator. You are your success is very predicated on
Speaker 1: the other side of the all who you hire, So
Speaker 1: just look at some of the offensive coaches right when
Speaker 1: did Andy Reid? Obviously Mahomes was a big element of
Speaker 1: this got rid of I think Bob Sutton was the
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator. Spagnola last five years, three super bowls in
Speaker 1: their defense has been dramatically.
Speaker 2: Better with often young players.
Speaker 1: Kyle Shanahan back to back defensive coordinators become head coaches.
Speaker 1: They've been awesome. And now he hires Steve Wilkes. Everyone's
Speaker 1: really high on Sean McVay. Excellent defensive coordinators, So you
Speaker 1: need help on that side of the ball. When were
Speaker 1: the Bills really good for that three or four year stretch?
Speaker 1: Brian Dball turns out he's a star. Maybe Ken Dorsey,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna there's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 1: pressure on him because they got a little loosey goosey
Speaker 1: last year with Josh Allen, who just is kind of
Speaker 1: a loosey goosey player. His talent is just so elite
Speaker 1: right now. The thing with the team building, and I
Speaker 1: know you talked about the offensive line with the Bills.
Speaker 1: Their GM has a lot of juice Brandon Bean, you know,
Speaker 1: and they have invested heavily in the defensive line, which
Speaker 1: no one really like. That's a smart thing to do,
Speaker 1: but it's like, have they hit on the right guys.
Speaker 1: I like von Miller fifty five million dollars for a
Speaker 1: guy thirty three years old. It's a it was a
Speaker 1: lot of money, Yes it was. It was a lot
Speaker 1: of money, and he was having a really good season
Speaker 1: last year. But what happened he got hurt. You know,
Speaker 1: older guys. You saw JJ Watt a couple of years ago. Again,
Speaker 1: elite guy, champion. It's hard to overpay those guys. John.
Speaker 2: I didn't like the von Miller deal. I thought the Rams,
Speaker 2: much like the Chiefs did with Juju Smith Schuster, incentive
Speaker 2: laden deal comes in hits. Patriots overpay. I thought Von
Speaker 2: Miller for the Rams was a home run. I think
Speaker 2: Buffalo overpaid. I think at his age and injury history,
Speaker 2: it was a mistake.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think when you're giving the you know, astronomical deals,
Speaker 1: when you're a championship level team, they got to be year. Guys,
Speaker 1: when you go shopping in free agency, you just you
Speaker 1: pay what a twenty thirty percent premium just on the
Speaker 1: fact that you're bidding against other teams, the prices go up.
Speaker 1: So I think they regrets that one, but I do
Speaker 1: think their success. You know, Sean mcdermy has proven to
Speaker 1: be a good defensive coordinator when he was with the
Speaker 1: Carolina Panthers and Ron Rivera, like, he knows what he's
Speaker 1: doing to coach the defense. So let's just say their
Speaker 1: defense a little bit better. What if their offense, like
Speaker 1: what if Ken Dorsey? I mean, for every cow Shanahan
Speaker 1: and Sean McVay, there are a lot offensive coordinators that
Speaker 1: turn out to not be that good. So that would
Speaker 1: be my biggest concern if I was a Bills fan.
Speaker 1: The thing with the Dolphins, though Colin doesn't the quarterback
Speaker 1: concern you. I mean, you're cushing away from like missing
Speaker 1: the season.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, two has put on about fifteen pounds.
Speaker 2: You can see it in practice in the Ota like
Speaker 2: he got thick. He did a Jalen hurtz Lamar did
Speaker 2: it two years ago. You're like, he's got traps, he's
Speaker 2: got he got thick. So two has kind of come
Speaker 2: to terms with you can't. You can't play light at
Speaker 2: that position. You can in college when you have Bama's
Speaker 2: offensive line, you can't in the NFL. You got to
Speaker 2: put putting on. You got to put weight on.
Speaker 1: You got to hit the ground too. When shit hits
Speaker 1: the fan. You can't try to be a hero. He's
Speaker 1: not big enough or fast enough to do that.
Speaker 2: So I've said if he plays fifteen games, I do
Speaker 2: think Jaalen Ramsey Vic Fangio. I think if you look
Speaker 2: at Shanahan's system with Matt Ryan, it's in year two
Speaker 2: that a quarterback. It's complicated that a quarterback really hits
Speaker 2: it with Shanahan. Often it's been year two. I think
Speaker 2: year two McDaniel and Tua. I think the division's really good.
Speaker 2: If DeAndre Hopkins signed with New England, I think that's
Speaker 2: that's like substantial. But I have the same quarterback worries.
Speaker 2: I just don't like the way Buffalo's trending. And the
Speaker 2: other thing is with Aaron Rodgers and the Jets. I
Speaker 2: know Aaron's going to be fine, and I think he's
Speaker 2: using He's smart, he knows the narrative on in Green
Speaker 2: Bay was his buddies were the old guys Bachtiari and Cobb.
Speaker 2: He didn't work with young guys. So in New York
Speaker 2: he's made a point to put his arms around the
Speaker 2: young guy. I love these young players. He's smart, he
Speaker 2: sees It's like I've said before, when you get divorced
Speaker 2: and remarried, you're like, what was I really bad?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: I got to get better at dealing with kids. I
Speaker 2: get to get better with money. Like you know what
Speaker 2: you're bad at, you correct it. He's he's course corrected
Speaker 2: on the young guys, but it's still a shaky O line.
Speaker 2: The wide receiving corps. Alan Lazard's more of a three.
Speaker 2: Garrett Wilson's young I steal. I don't think they. I
Speaker 2: think most of their talents and the defensive front and
Speaker 2: in corner. Uh so, I if I said to you, so,
Speaker 2: Miami's my woe pick. I think Carolina has a chance
Speaker 2: to win their division, mostly because it's a bad division.
Speaker 2: Is there a woe pick for you at this point?
Speaker 2: A division that I would go, Man, I didn't see
Speaker 2: that coming.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess you could see it coming. But everyone's
Speaker 1: going to pick the Bengals. I do think the Steelers
Speaker 1: were really coming on at the end of the year
Speaker 1: last year. We know how well they draft, we know
Speaker 1: how much talent they have on their team. You know TJ.
Speaker 1: Watt remember missed a lot of last season. He's yes
Speaker 1: a lot like Nick Bosa that if he's playing seventeen games,
Speaker 1: he's getting you closer to twenty sacks and dominating every
Speaker 1: game he plays.
Speaker 2: In good point.
Speaker 1: Their culture, you know their quarterback. I'm not a huge like.
Speaker 1: I don't really like those type players because I think
Speaker 1: their ceilings pretty low. But physically you get to go
Speaker 1: to a place that's just kind of equipped with a
Speaker 1: running back, weapons, a defense. He's an older, younger player.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not out of the realm possibility they
Speaker 1: win twelve or thirteen games, right, if they maximize and
Speaker 1: stay healthy and they're in that division. No one's intimidated,
Speaker 1: especially Baltimore and Pittsburgh by the Cincinnati Bengals, right, even
Speaker 1: though the Bengals have been beating them, but they will
Speaker 1: view of healthy that they should win the division. So
Speaker 1: I'd say the Steelers are a team that I might
Speaker 1: lean to pick. I'm definitely gonna pick to make the playoffs,
Speaker 1: but to potentially win the North Well and the other thing.
Speaker 2: Very much like New England defensive culture, defensive coach, they
Speaker 2: get a Mac Jones, a Kenny Pickett lower ceiling. But
Speaker 2: if you kind of look at what Belichick, Brady was
Speaker 2: viewed as a lower ceiling.
Speaker 1: Guy or I got better over time, yep.
Speaker 2: And so the truth is Belichick, Belichick doesn't want Lamar
Speaker 2: Jackson running out of his plays either, just Shanahan either.
Speaker 2: Just you know, Tomlin sometimes was frustrated with big bends,
Speaker 2: you know, ad libbing, kind of refusal to audible in
Speaker 2: and out of trouble. And so I kind of look
Speaker 2: at Kenny Picken and I'm like, Okay, I don't love him.
Speaker 2: His ceiling may be seven and a half. But you know,
Speaker 2: with Tomlin's defense, with a culture that can win a division,
Speaker 2: it really can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And listen, I think coaches, you talk to these
Speaker 1: guys gms, every year is a new year. So the momentum,
Speaker 1: especially when you miss the playoffs, doesn't carry over. But
Speaker 1: that is an organization who standards so high and they're
Speaker 1: so used to like ending on success will carry over.
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of these guys, I think
Speaker 1: The Saints are another team. You know, I know you've
Speaker 1: always been a supporter of Derek and I've known him
Speaker 1: since Fresno State. I think for the first time in
Speaker 1: his career he was really kind of told like essentially,
Speaker 1: you suck get out here. Yeah, you know, like you're
Speaker 1: not good enough to play here. They've left, he left
Speaker 1: the building the last couple of weeks. That's a team
Speaker 1: that what's crazy is that the end of the Sean
Speaker 1: Payton era in New Orleans, they had a really good
Speaker 1: defense and they still have a lot of physical pieces.
Speaker 1: They've made a physical team. Yeah, then Drew's career kind
Speaker 1: of ends, and obviously they go into this court. They
Speaker 1: don't have a quarterback. Derek does not have to be
Speaker 1: Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. If he can just play
Speaker 1: like the tenth eleventh best quarterback in you know, the NFL,
Speaker 1: they could, especially Winni factor in their division their strength
Speaker 1: to schedule, Like why couldn't they win ten eleven games.
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Speaker 2: you can watch all this stuff on television, certainly, but
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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting you you touched on Sean Payton.
Speaker 2: I want to dive a little bit into Denver here,
Speaker 2: so I thought it probably more the best guest I've
Speaker 2: ever had on my show, Reeaca Caring as Sean Payton.
Speaker 2: I did him Mondays fifteen times last year. Sewan and
Speaker 2: I would talk five minutes before he went on, twenty minutes,
Speaker 2: twenty five when he was on five. After I learned
Speaker 2: so much, went to dinner a couple of times. I
Speaker 2: learned so much from Sean Payton. I could tell after
Speaker 2: about four or five meetings with him, there's no way
Speaker 2: he was going to stay out of the league. He
Speaker 2: just he's so curious. He's such a good storyteller. He's
Speaker 2: so he's just he's like intellectually twitchy, like he needs
Speaker 2: to work right. He can only golf so much. You've
Speaker 2: met guys like this.
Speaker 1: He's too good of a coach to not be coaching,
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: And he didn't have the burnout yet of a Jimmy
Speaker 2: Johnson who could have coached for years more. But Jimmy
Speaker 2: was burnt out, and Sean, unlike Jimmy. Maybe it has
Speaker 2: a good social life. I mean, Sean's gonna go rip
Speaker 2: it up and have a good time, beautiful young wife
Speaker 2: like Sean gets away from the sport. But I watched
Speaker 2: Denver and seven of the base eight best offensive lines
Speaker 2: according to PFF last year were offensive head coach Hardbaugh
Speaker 2: and seven offensive head coaches. They figure out the O line.
Speaker 2: It wasn't lost on me that he goes out and
Speaker 2: gets Mike mcglinchy right tackle, Ben Powers at guard. They
Speaker 2: already have. They have Garrett Bowles coming back, who's their
Speaker 2: best onlignement, and they do have an interior guard they
Speaker 2: like on the roster. And so I think we're going
Speaker 2: to see a significant upgrade on their O line. And
Speaker 2: Sean told me a couple of times off the air
Speaker 2: and on with Russell Wilson. He said he's got to
Speaker 2: go back to leaning into what he does, and that
Speaker 2: is basketball on grass. He's got to move, that's what
Speaker 2: he is. What do you in vision? Because I think
Speaker 2: they're going to take a big leap, What are you
Speaker 2: in vision with them?
Speaker 1: I didn't love the O Lineman signings for the price point,
Speaker 1: but ultimately mcglinchy's a good example, like do you love
Speaker 1: buying a house at the peak of the market. Sometimes
Speaker 1: not ideally, but he need somewhere to live, right, So
Speaker 1: do I want to pay fifty million dollars for McGlinchey. No,
Speaker 1: but who's going to play right tackle? And it's not
Speaker 1: like he's coming from the worst team in the league.
Speaker 1: He's been a five year starter on the forty nine ers,
Speaker 1: So it's listen. Maybe I'm too close to the sun.
Speaker 1: I've seen him, but he's he has a starts every
Speaker 1: game for you at a very very critical condition. I'm
Speaker 1: with you. I mean, what made Russell Wilson so special?
Speaker 1: And I've seen him live several times in his heyday,
Speaker 1: he was just a magician. He kind of had this
Speaker 1: Steve Young flair. Obviously, the deep ball, and he looked
Speaker 1: like a shell of himself. And you know, I think
Speaker 1: most of us, if you're going to be bullish on
Speaker 1: his comeback, he'd be like, well, Nate Hackett dysfunction. And
Speaker 1: then if you were going to be bearish on the situation,
Speaker 1: we'd be like, well, he's a lot of miles on
Speaker 1: those tires right running around. You can't play like that forever.
Speaker 1: He's probably him and Aaron Rodgers are probably the two
Speaker 1: most fascinating situations this year for just high level Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame level guys in new scenarios. Obviously Russell's been
Speaker 1: there a year, but now gets Sean Payton no longer
Speaker 1: he's in charge. I think some of the stuff was overblown,
Speaker 1: Like Peyton Manning had a office at the facility right
Speaker 1: in Indian Denver. No one cares about that stuff when
Speaker 1: you're winning. It just gets weird when you're not. Now,
Speaker 1: Peyton like Tom are just better dealing with guys one
Speaker 1: on one. Like, I don't know if that's something you change.
Speaker 1: I mean some of the question marks with Russell just
Speaker 1: being a little different. You know, that's that's not something
Speaker 1: you usually flip a switch at it. Thirty two thirty
Speaker 1: three years old. Like, I'm pretty confident Sean Paige. You
Speaker 1: talk to people in the NFL that he's viewed as
Speaker 1: one of the best offensive minds and just schemers of
Speaker 1: his generation. So offensively like the scheme, He's going to
Speaker 1: figure it out. It's just can Russell. Is he still
Speaker 1: the athlete? And if his athleticism is let's say it
Speaker 1: was once a hundred percent, is now seventy percent not
Speaker 1: eighty eight percent, that's a big problem for a smaller
Speaker 1: player who's not ever going to play like a Brady
Speaker 1: or Manning in the pocket.
Speaker 2: Right. You know, it was interesting. I started thinking, why
Speaker 2: wouldn't Russell run last year? Because it was really abrupt,
Speaker 2: like he wouldn't move movement, wouldn't And I did wonder
Speaker 2: this is that Russell wanted to be viewed as a
Speaker 2: pocket passer because he wanted to be viewed as an
Speaker 2: all time great. And Brady was winning Super Bowls and
Speaker 2: it was this and Lamar Jackson was new in the league.
Speaker 2: Lamar was running around, and I had this thought that
Speaker 2: Russell watched all of this and thought, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to be Lamar. I'm not going to be Kyler Murray
Speaker 2: I'm not those guys. I want to establish my guy
Speaker 2: myself as a pocket guy, because it was almost as
Speaker 2: if he was stubborn, not moving. If you watch their games,
Speaker 2: when he moved, he moved the chains. He's not a
Speaker 2: great pocket passer. Jalen Hurts isn't yet a great pocket passer.
Speaker 2: Lamar's better than people think. He's not Burrow, and I
Speaker 2: thought it was almost one of those where Sean Payton
Speaker 2: said this to me, he goes, I got to convince Russell,
Speaker 2: let's go back to basketball on grass. I think Russell
Speaker 2: can move. I think Russell made a decision he did
Speaker 2: not want to be branded is run around guy because
Speaker 2: Kyler had come in and was a little quicker, Lamar
Speaker 2: was faster, Josh Allen was leaping over people, and Russell
Speaker 2: was thinking, I don't want to be the seventh best
Speaker 2: running quarterback in this league. That was my interpretation because
Speaker 2: when I watched, I'd think, Russell, every time you run
Speaker 2: in these games, twice a game, you pick up a
Speaker 2: first down run. He's still very elusive. So sometimes, you know,
Speaker 2: people have told me this before in my career. Sportscasters
Speaker 2: like lean into what you are. You know, if you're
Speaker 2: a storyteller, be a storyteller. If you're funny, be funny.
Speaker 2: If you're a great journalist, lean into it. I think
Speaker 2: Russell needs to lean back into Russell. So I want
Speaker 2: to go from there to a team you know very well,
Speaker 2: the forty nine ers. I think it's impossible to yank
Speaker 2: a player that went eight to zero is the starting quarterback.
Speaker 2: I don't think, yeah, so what is what.
Speaker 1: Is not happening? So it doesn't you know?
Speaker 2: They what do you do with Trey Lambs.
Speaker 1: Well, I actually think he can earn a lot of
Speaker 1: creditibility back, and I think he has a little bit
Speaker 1: in the OTA's But this fall, if he just beat
Speaker 1: Sam Darnald out, like he went from the number three
Speaker 1: pick in the draft and traded for three first round
Speaker 1: picks to two years later, not the starting quarterback because
Speaker 1: mister irrelevant is and competing with Sam Donald who's playing
Speaker 1: for three million dollars to be the backup quarterback. So
Speaker 1: I do think there's a lot on the line come August.
Speaker 1: Right in training camp, they have some joint practices the
Speaker 1: preseason games. My take is, though, I just the forty
Speaker 1: nine ers thought that they could have their cake and
Speaker 1: eat it too and develop this player, and they realized
Speaker 1: he needed so much work and he got hurt that
Speaker 1: they were just a ready made machine. It's why they
Speaker 1: always kind of went back to Jimmy Garoppolo. And then
Speaker 1: when they just they didn't luck into Barrock party because
Speaker 1: they he made the team last year at a training camp.
Speaker 1: Like they what he did in training camp, Kyle kind
Speaker 1: of fell in love with They really liked him. Now
Speaker 1: they didn't think he was in it end up being
Speaker 1: a starting quarterback, but through injuries, his play through whatever,
Speaker 1: the end of the season and then those couple of
Speaker 1: playoff games before. I guess the Dallas game was hard.
Speaker 1: I mean their defense was playing really well. The Eagle
Speaker 1: game didn't even happen. That he was a more explosive
Speaker 1: player than Jimmy Garoppolo. And we know the weapons they have,
Speaker 1: right and I think now that they have Christian McCaffrey,
Speaker 1: they just go, we don't need because I'm not asking
Speaker 1: you to play like Patrick Mahomes. We run the ball
Speaker 1: a lot, we throw a lot of quick screens, we
Speaker 1: throw a lot of wheel routes. We are not bombs
Speaker 1: away like the Buffalo Bills or the Bengals that's not
Speaker 1: the way we play. So we just need a guy
Speaker 1: to be very, very accurate basically in like the ten
Speaker 1: yard window, passed the line of scrimmage right, and perty
Speaker 1: was awesome at that. Of course he was. He's been
Speaker 1: a four year starter at Iowa State. He's a multiple
Speaker 1: All Big twelve guy. He had a lot of experience,
Speaker 1: very confident, and it's just an accurate player. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's his strength and that's not Trey's strength. And you know,
Speaker 1: the Bills several years ago were like, screw it, we're
Speaker 1: gonna figure it out with Josh Allen and learn through it.
Speaker 1: And they weren't even close to being a super Bowl
Speaker 1: contender at the time he started when he got there.
Speaker 1: That's the opposite with the forty nine er. You could
Speaker 1: argue it would have been an easier landing spot if
Speaker 1: he just went to a shitty team and just got
Speaker 1: to screw up on the fly and figure it out.
Speaker 1: That was I think the forty nine ers thought the opposite,
Speaker 1: and then once they got it, they're like, yeah, we can't.
Speaker 1: And the players last year were kind of grumbling because
Speaker 1: they're thinking, we can't win ten games if this guy's
Speaker 1: not accurate. Right, we can't figure it out on the fly.
Speaker 1: We're twenty five to twenty eight year old guys in
Speaker 1: our prime right to roll. And yeah, I mean if
Speaker 1: he doesn't win the backup job. They do have the
Speaker 1: three quarterback rule. You know, they change it. Technically they
Speaker 1: keep them, but to me, it's not out of the
Speaker 1: realm possibility. They just maybe trade them at the end
Speaker 1: of training camp if Sam Donold like beats him out right,
Speaker 1: because what you can't have a guy nine million dollars
Speaker 1: being your third you know.
Speaker 2: You get can you get a fourth round pick for him?
Speaker 1: I think it depends how he plays in training camp
Speaker 1: right now. You could not. Now if he looks good
Speaker 1: in training camp and Sam's just better. They have a
Speaker 1: joint practice with the Raiders Jimmy Garoppolo, they're baking on
Speaker 1: him being healthy. I mean he can't. He can't pass
Speaker 1: a physical in June for the second time in two years.
Speaker 1: So I mean that that could be a disaster. What
Speaker 1: if he's good against the Raiders Mark Davis Vegas Knights Champion, Like,
Speaker 1: you can't just be irrelevant in Vegas. They don't have it.
Speaker 1: And if Jimmy is injured, I mean that they'd bet
Speaker 1: Brian Hoyer would We wouldn't just trade a fourth to
Speaker 1: just see what you got to take your chances because
Speaker 1: there's some pressure on just being relevant if you're the Raiders.
Speaker 1: So I think there would be a couple teams if
Speaker 1: he shows signs of life. If he doesn't, h Yeah,
Speaker 1: his value is very very small because he makes he's
Speaker 1: a third overall pick. He makes some cash.
Speaker 2: Right, I just saw this. There was a rumor the
Speaker 2: Patriots tried to trade for Rogers and he blocked it.
Speaker 2: Do you believe that rumor?
Speaker 1: Uh? I would bet Bill sniffed around because he was
Speaker 1: obviously pretty down on mac Jones over the last twelve months.
Speaker 1: The Patriots don't have any offensive weapons. It's not really
Speaker 1: an enjoyable place to go once it's not guaranteed you're
Speaker 1: gonna win. I mean one of the reasons guys were
Speaker 1: taking pay cuts because you were guaranteed at minimum to
Speaker 1: go to the AFC Championship Game and like an eighty
Speaker 1: percent chance you were going to the Super Bowl. So
Speaker 1: once it's like, well we might win nine games, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not playing for that curmudgeon. Right, You've been on
Speaker 1: this forever and listen I think Bill's an awesome I mean,
Speaker 1: he's an all time great coach any sport, any era,
Speaker 1: at anytime. But the offensive game last year was an
Speaker 1: embarrassment to go with Patricia Right and Joe Judge. I
Speaker 1: mean that situation that's beyond like arrogance or whatever. That's
Speaker 1: just crazy. I mean it was universally like this is insane. Again,
Speaker 1: not a Mac Jones guy. I do understand if I'm
Speaker 1: Mac Jones, like what he's been at Alabama. He knows
Speaker 1: what normal looks like, and that ain't normal.
Speaker 2: You know what it's I often use sports to guy
Speaker 2: me through some of my business stuff. And you know,
Speaker 2: like I watched Greg Popovich refuse to embrace the three pointer.
Speaker 2: I watch Bill Belichick refuse to pivot unlike Saban to
Speaker 2: a more offensive quarterback friendly team. And it is interesting
Speaker 2: in the business books that I prouse over the course
Speaker 2: of a year. I like business. I always have. Not
Speaker 2: necessarily a business person, but I enjoy reading about the
Speaker 2: structure of it, the architecture of businesses, and the ascension
Speaker 2: of a business, especially since I created the volume and
Speaker 2: almost too a business. The successful companies that fail, people
Speaker 2: don't get dumb. They just get arrogant, and they start
Speaker 2: believing John in the culture more than talent. You know,
Speaker 2: Mike Krzyzewski got very precious on the one and done.
Speaker 2: Remember for years, Duke would not hang your jersey unless
Speaker 2: you graduated. And then, you know, Mike finally said that
Speaker 2: all these one and done guys, they're all beating me.
Speaker 2: So Mike was like, okay, I'm pivoting. Saban pivoted when
Speaker 2: he got laying Kiffen on the staff. That program first
Speaker 2: seven years was built on linebackers, safe these corners. Then
Speaker 2: they went all in on five star wide receivers and
Speaker 2: quarterbacks and left tackles. Is that when I look at
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick, he didn't get dumb. But when you fall
Speaker 2: in love with your culture. I remember when I started
Speaker 2: the volume I talked to I emailed a couple of
Speaker 2: different people, successful business guys, and almost three people, a
Speaker 2: woman and two men, and very successful people, and they
Speaker 2: all said the exact same thing. Separately. I said, give
Speaker 2: me one piece of sage advice, and they all said,
Speaker 2: be willing to pivot, don't fall in love with your
Speaker 2: ideas of your culture. Whatever works, double down, what doesn't
Speaker 2: get off it immediately? And when I watched The Patriot.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're a former scout, you have people in
Speaker 2: the building. That's why I think DeAndre Hopkins is sort
Speaker 2: of an acknowledgment in Juju Smith Schuster. Hey, I got
Speaker 2: to get this right, Like I fed up last year.
Speaker 2: That's what d Hot feels like to me. Well, I
Speaker 2: think there's some tangible pressure. I mean there's always been
Speaker 2: rumors in NFL circles.
Speaker 1: Bill doesn't exactly treat the Craft family normal like coach ownership, hierarchy,
Speaker 1: maybe an equal or maybe in some instances even above. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that works. When you're going fourteen and two every year, right,
Speaker 1: and winning the Super Bowl every other season, and winning
Speaker 1: six and whatever seventeen years and going to ten AFC
Speaker 1: championship games. It's a different story when you're struggling to
Speaker 1: make the seventh wild card, right, and when you do,
Speaker 1: you lose by seventy five points to the Bills, or
Speaker 1: you don't make the playoffs, and you look around and
Speaker 1: you start making moves like that. I was also thinking
Speaker 1: about I wonder, you know, the older you get, especially
Speaker 1: some of these coaches or even business people in their seventies,
Speaker 1: it's probably harder if you kind of lean negative, and
Speaker 1: Bill can be a little negative cur muchis think about
Speaker 1: some of the successful guys right now, Andy Reid mid sixties,
Speaker 1: kind of happy, right, Pete Carroll a little more positive.
Speaker 1: There's something to just be positive every day. It's a
Speaker 1: little harder because now we're several years removed from Tom Brady.
Speaker 1: A lot of the guys that were around Tom, Edelman, mccordy,
Speaker 1: they're gone. So these guys don't know what twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: was like. That doesn't mean anything to a lot of
Speaker 1: the guys on the Patriots, right. And then you got
Speaker 1: this coach who just is a hard ass every day
Speaker 1: driving you through one thing. With Nick Saban, they're just
Speaker 1: there's a churn in college and he hasn't had the lows.
Speaker 1: I mean his low is like eleven wins, losing in
Speaker 1: the SEC championship game, right or something. You know, Bill,
Speaker 1: last couple of years for their standards, there's a it's
Speaker 1: like a Grand Canyon wide gap. And I don't think
Speaker 1: he just not that he's not an optim mystic. Obviously
Speaker 1: he knows what he's doing, but he's tough man to
Speaker 1: be around on a daily basis. The negativity people handled
Speaker 1: it because they also don't pay as much in terms
Speaker 1: of coaches assistant coaches historically. You know, they try to
Speaker 1: be cheap with the players historically. And it's like it's
Speaker 1: one thing when you're winning, just like in any industry,
Speaker 1: if you're going to be part of a lot of
Speaker 1: success and you're eventually going to benefit on the back end,
Speaker 1: you're like, I can handle this, right, I can handle
Speaker 1: this crime. But when it's not working, like what am
Speaker 1: I doing this for? You start looking at yourself in
Speaker 1: the mirror and a lot of people turn on you.
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to pivot US Open. In Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: John hosts our golf podcast, Golo Podcast, Cool Merch. John
Speaker 2: is his real passion. He just happens to be great
Speaker 2: at football. His real passion is golf, and you can
Speaker 2: tell when you listen to him. So I'm going to
Speaker 2: lean into you on this. There are certain courses that
Speaker 2: benefit certain players. So in the when I think of
Speaker 2: US Open, I think of the rough as deeper. This
Speaker 2: is the American Championship. You're going to have to earn it.
Speaker 2: Are there players? When you look at the US Open,
Speaker 2: give me a couple of guys who are built to
Speaker 2: win an.
Speaker 1: Open well kepka is. I mean you typically it's really
Speaker 1: really hard. Based on Thursday, it was relatively easy. Now
Speaker 1: they can trick it up really quick. You know, they
Speaker 1: cannot water greens. They can they have the ability to
Speaker 1: grow grass at rapid rates. I mean the rough can
Speaker 1: you know change quickly. You saw Ricky Fowler. One thing
Speaker 1: is and I haven't played much golf. I haven't played
Speaker 1: any golf in Florida. There's a huge difference in the
Speaker 1: way grass your club received. At the highest level. I
Speaker 1: mean me, you the average guy, even if they're shooting
Speaker 1: in the seventies, can't tell. But at the pro level.
Speaker 1: It's why California guys typically have success on the California Swing,
Speaker 1: Pebble Beach, Tory Pines. This today. Ricky Fowler, Xander Schoffley
Speaker 1: born and raised in southern California. Last before we hopped on,
Speaker 1: Phil Mickelson was like fourteen holes. He was three under par.
Speaker 1: California guy still lives out here, so you're very comfortable
Speaker 1: with the grass. Now, this isn't your typical where if
Speaker 1: you're off the fairway, you're dead. They've never played this
Speaker 1: course before. You see Zillo, the toy, the Spelling mansion
Speaker 1: is on whole fourteen. It's it's for sale right now
Speaker 1: for one hundred and fifty five million dollars, So the
Speaker 1: monthly payment is close to a million dollars. The monthly
Speaker 1: taxes are like one hundred and twenty grand. But this
Speaker 1: this is somewhat of a unique venue because they've never
Speaker 1: been here and they might never come back. But I
Speaker 1: think typically it's it's guys that are smart. There is
Speaker 1: a kind of like a belichicker in it. You've got
Speaker 1: to have strategy. Tiger was the greatest strategist ever. Phil
Speaker 1: could be a little loosey goosey. It's why he's never
Speaker 1: won a US Open and blown it a couple times.
Speaker 1: I think Koepka, you know, it's weird. He looks like
Speaker 1: a football player something, but he's actually a pretty boring golfer.
Speaker 1: Hits a lot of fairways, hits a lot of greens,
Speaker 1: doesn't screw up. It's why he wins these big tournament's.
Speaker 1: Rory one of the knocks on him for being one
Speaker 1: of the most talented guys ever, a little phillish, not
Speaker 1: always the greatest decisions. You know, the talents there, and
Speaker 1: I think US Opens historically, We'll see how this thing
Speaker 1: plays out. It usually kills you when you make a
Speaker 1: bad one hole, can ruin your tournament right this, you know,
Speaker 1: you're down there right now. It looked a little overcast today,
Speaker 1: so the sun's not baking, which maybe actually can lead
Speaker 1: to softer courses. Usually when that sun, you know, bakes,
Speaker 1: hardens out the fairways, hardens out the green. But these guys,
Speaker 1: these superintendents, these people that run these courses now, especially
Speaker 1: in a place like that, that they will not like
Speaker 1: these low scores. They're gonna want to They're gonna wanna
Speaker 1: humble these guys, you know, eighty five bears style the
Speaker 1: next couple days. So it'll be very fascinating Friday Saturday
Speaker 1: if they if they try to hit them in the
Speaker 1: teeth with them curveballs.
Speaker 2: So the players that didn't defect to the live tour,
Speaker 2: you know, like Rory McElroy. My take was always that
Speaker 2: Phil Mickelson complained for years, as did Greg Norman, about
Speaker 2: the treatment of star players every other entertainment business, NBA, music, Sony,
Speaker 2: movie studios. You take care of your stars golf team,
Speaker 2: So you know, it wasn't a shock when Phil bolted
Speaker 2: to a live to or if I would have guessed
Speaker 2: who would have bolted, I would have said Greg Norman's
Speaker 2: gonna run it, Phil's gonna bolt. But for the players
Speaker 2: that didn't defect going forward, what do you think is
Speaker 2: reasonable compensation to show up because you have to take
Speaker 2: care of some of these guys, especially now that the
Speaker 2: PGA scolded golfers that departed and defected and now took
Speaker 2: the money.
Speaker 1: You know, it's weird. A lot of the reaction over
Speaker 1: the last ten days has been those guys got screwed.
Speaker 1: I don't think the top end guys regret making their decision.
Speaker 1: You know, Roy McElroy, John Rahm, Jordan Spieth, these guys
Speaker 1: were worth nine figures, so the money at their level,
Speaker 1: not that it wouldn't have Justin Johnson likes his life,
Speaker 1: but Dustin Johnson was kind of over Keopka didn't play
Speaker 1: that much beside the majors and care ever, So what
Speaker 1: I think is going to be fascinating is that it
Speaker 1: was not sustainable the way it was going. Right. It's
Speaker 1: a little like the NBA. You know, ten to fifteen players.
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about like the top ten players,
Speaker 1: it's really the top three or four to carry the league.
Speaker 1: Right in golf, it's always been the top three or
Speaker 1: four guys in any era that carry the sport, and
Speaker 1: then you create stars by the next seven to twenty
Speaker 1: guys when they battle those guys, and if you ever
Speaker 1: beat them, you become a star. Like Jokic, how did
Speaker 1: he become a star sorta knocking off the top guys
Speaker 1: and now we view him as an equal. But without
Speaker 1: his ability to beat those top guys, we wouldn't quite
Speaker 1: know how to gauge it. So the splintering of golf,
Speaker 1: which is much more niche than our team sports in America,
Speaker 1: it was never going to work. And they're going up
Speaker 1: against an entity with unlimited money. So I have a
Speaker 1: buddy that works in Wall Street that text me. He's like,
Speaker 1: you know that the Saudi's have like sixteen trillion in
Speaker 1: untapped oil. I mean there are wealth is unlimited and golf.
Speaker 1: I think they overextended themselves to try to compete against
Speaker 1: because there they were going to their sponsors, who are
Speaker 1: some of the biggest companies in America, asking them to
Speaker 1: double down, and the guy's like, well, you're not producing
Speaker 1: double the why would I give you double the amount?
Speaker 1: I'm already giving you, which is a lot of money.
Speaker 1: It wasn't adding up, so the merger and as you
Speaker 1: see Jay Monahan, I don't know if you saw the
Speaker 1: headline last twenty four hours, but he took a leave
Speaker 1: of absence probably I mean stress you know, this is
Speaker 1: something I think that was There are so many variables
Speaker 1: on this, but ultimately I don't know, like what are
Speaker 1: you just going to put everyone on salary which might
Speaker 1: be which might happen now that they're no longer in
Speaker 1: a I think it's called a five oh one CE
Speaker 1: for tax benefits, which they're not going to do anymore.
Speaker 1: And they haven't been able to just put Tiger Phil Rory,
Speaker 1: you know, pay him like I don't know, Steph for
Speaker 1: Lebron or Aaron Judges, pay him thirty thirty five million
Speaker 1: dollars a year and then whatever else you win. And
Speaker 1: that's the Saudi's had the ability to do. But I
Speaker 1: also think some of those guys, like the thing with golf,
Speaker 1: to have a legit tournament, you have to have access
Speaker 1: to the courses, and the Sadis were never going to
Speaker 1: have access to any good course because of the country
Speaker 1: clubs were all in a weird way integrated with the
Speaker 1: money guys, and they didn't want, they don't need the Sadis.
Speaker 1: And then the public courses, the PGA Tour, the Pebble
Speaker 1: Beaches you go around the country are in business with
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, So everyone was kind of incentivized in
Speaker 1: a weird way. I think the great mistake, though, was
Speaker 1: you know that, and you hammered this, and anyone with
Speaker 1: a brain that the disingenuous moral high horse win. Ultimately
Speaker 1: you kind of know where it's going to end up.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just a terrible look using the nine
Speaker 2: to eleven families as ponds.
Speaker 1: I mean, the.
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia Fund has major stakes in Uber and Boeing.
Speaker 2: So if you've ever taken Uber or ever get in
Speaker 2: a plane in America, you are helping the Saudis.
Speaker 1: You are are are we allies as a government with
Speaker 1: the Saudi Arabia verse.
Speaker 2: I think they're one of our largest trade partners. The
Speaker 2: top thirty corporations in America, over half are in business.
Speaker 2: So I think it was an overreach using the nine
Speaker 2: to eleven families. If you're stating that Phil Mickelson and
Speaker 2: Dustin Johnson and Brooks Koepka are heartless, soulless people who
Speaker 2: don't care about nine to eleven. Then you're also saying
Speaker 2: Boeing is uber is, our government is can't drink a
Speaker 2: diet cope forever. I mean, all these major corporations do
Speaker 2: major business in the Middle East. So I can be
Speaker 2: two things. I can be crestfallen and deeply disturbed about
Speaker 2: what happened on nine to eleven. It is the most
Speaker 2: jarring thing I've seen in my life that's happened on
Speaker 2: our soil. It's still I've been to the site twice,
Speaker 2: I mean really incredibly touching. And I can also understand
Speaker 2: with globalization, they're the richest countries. I get it that.
Speaker 2: So I mean the first owner of ESPN was Getty Oil. Okay,
Speaker 2: so I've worked with a company essentially founded and moneyed,
Speaker 2: you know, buy oil money. So I all I know
Speaker 2: is this, there's like four golfers in this country, Phil Brooks,
Speaker 2: Rory and then Dustin Johnson. If they're competing Sunday, I'm in.
Speaker 2: And And now I'd theorize if Tiger was in his prime,
Speaker 2: you maybe don't have to e merge.
Speaker 1: And he's an all time outlier you're right. Given the sport,
Speaker 1: I mean, Michael Jordan's more likely to come again than
Speaker 1: in golf we ever see it Tiger Woods. So it's
Speaker 1: that they it was not sustainable to model. I mean depending,
Speaker 1: I mean, who'd actually knows the truth, but it's pretty
Speaker 1: clear that, you know, some people say they had two
Speaker 1: some people say it was five billion dollars the Saudi
Speaker 1: had put to the side just to fight the PGA
Speaker 1: tour legal battle. Obviously, the PGA Tour can't they couldn't
Speaker 1: probably hit three four hundred million dollars to fight, So
Speaker 1: it was an economic game. Now you could, you could
Speaker 1: be a conspiracy theorist, and ultimately they just started Live
Speaker 1: to try to bleed it out to eventually lead to this.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people theorize that that's
Speaker 1: kind of the case because Live that was basically just
Speaker 1: a pawn. It's crazy. It sounds like, wait, they were
Speaker 1: just giving hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, to them,
Speaker 1: it's just a line on them. That's one hundred dollars
Speaker 1: to me here, thousand dollars to you. Right, It's just
Speaker 1: their money, is not It's hard to put into context
Speaker 1: the amount of money they can throw around and not
Speaker 1: even think twice. And I think the PGA tour was
Speaker 1: finding that out very very quickly. Now you could you
Speaker 1: could you know, push back on j Monahan. This was
Speaker 1: kind of lingering for a while. But if someone comes
Speaker 1: with that type bankroll, there's honestly not much you can do.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think the Live Group or the PGA,
Speaker 2: once you go into discovery phase of lawsuits, they don't.
Speaker 1: Want to open their No one, no one wants that.
Speaker 1: No listen for.
Speaker 2: Years, Scott Borough said, owners open your books. Owners are like, no,
Speaker 2: thank you faceball owners John Fisher as I'm I'm poverty stricken,
Speaker 2: no first opening his books.
Speaker 1: Yea. You ever seen a National Football league going or
Speaker 1: open their books? Not not in a million years.
Speaker 2: All right, Golo podcast and three and out. John middle
Speaker 2: Coff uh. John Middlecoff one of our bedrock guys at
Speaker 2: the Volume. As always, Buddy, enjoy the golf, great seeing you.
Speaker 1: You enjoy that USC Big ten schedule coming up into
Speaker 1: your column The Volume