1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: the world, it is so great to have you here 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: back for another episode as we, of course break down 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: the psychology of our twenties. I am so very excited 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 2: for today's episode because it's a little bit different from 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: our usual content. It kind of marries, I would say, 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: my two podcasts together in a way. If you guys 13 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: didn't know, I have another podcast called Mantra, which I 14 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: describe as like the spiritual little sister of the Psychology 15 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: of Your Twenties. We go in depth into a lot 16 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 2: of the stuff we talk about here, but from a 17 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 2: more philosophical perspective, and you know what, maybe a little 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 2: bit woo woo for some but I really like having 19 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: that at a depth and like the nuances of those 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: conversations to kind of give things a new angle. And 21 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: today we're kind of diving more into that realm and 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 2: taking a more kind of astrological spiritual take on our twenties, 23 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: but of course still with like a scientific lens to it. 24 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: We are talking about an idea that if you are 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: in your late twenties, maybe on the brink of thirty, 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 2: you have heard about before. It is the idea of 27 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: Saturn's return. So this concept of Satin returns. Firstly, so 28 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: many of you have asked me for this question. But secondly, 29 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: it's really having a moment. It comes up so much 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 2: in pop culture, especially in songs. You know, Scissors song Saturn, 31 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: I think it's just called Saturn, Casey Muscow's song Deeper. Well, 32 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 2: I know Ariana Grande has song about it on her 33 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: new album. And in each of these songs, you know, 34 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: these artists talk about this pivotal moment that they've each 35 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: uniquely experienced in which at twenty seven, twenty eight, twenty nine, 36 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: their lives just suddenly shocked them and kind of just 37 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 2: completely did one to eighty. It's actually a rather common 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: experience for people at this age to just go through 39 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: a magnificent, completely unpredictable life shift, and if you believe 40 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: the theory, it is something that actually all of us 41 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: must go through. All of us are going to have 42 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: some form of this experience. The idea of satin returns 43 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: comes from astrology. It basically represents an astrological event whereby satin, 44 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: the planet returns to its same position as when you 45 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: were born, right as you exit your twenties and enter 46 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: your thirties. And that's what brings. According to this theory, 47 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 2: so many unique shifts, breakups, lost, new career pathways, major 48 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: identity shifts. All these things are what we can expect 49 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: from this period. But there is, of course, as always, 50 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: a psychological explanation to the inevitability of these events that 51 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: we also need to discuss. So today I'm going to 52 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,239 Speaker 2: offer this psychological breakdown and psychological perspective on the return 53 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: of Satin on this exciting chapter. What you can expect, 54 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: why everything suddenly changes, the developmental explanation, the scientific one, 55 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: and most importantly for those of you going through it 56 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: right now, how to make the most out of this period, 57 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: how to get through this. We're also going to talk 58 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: about the history of the concept. We're going to talk 59 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: about Roman and Greek mythology. I know so many fun 60 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: things and stories of people who have made it out 61 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: on the other side, plus so much more so, even 62 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: if you don't think that astrology is for you, believe me, 63 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 2: I'm also very skeptical. I do think that you'll be 64 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: surprised by how much of this might just apply to 65 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: your life and what you might learn. So, without further ado, 66 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: let's dive into the psychology of Saturn's return. Okay, so 67 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: let's get the simple stuff out of the way. What 68 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: is a Saturn return? I've kind of already given a 69 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 2: very light explanation, but Saturn return is basically when the 70 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 2: planet Saturn circles back to the same position in the 71 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 2: sky that it occupied the moment that you were born. Now, 72 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: because Saturn roughly takes about twenty seven to thirty years 73 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: to complete an orbit around the Sun, your satin return 74 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: tends to land at around twenty seven to thirty. Some 75 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: people say earlier, can happen at twenty six, It can 76 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,679 Speaker 2: happen up to thirty one, depending on when you were born. 77 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 2: And it doesn't just happen in one moment. It's not 78 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: just like a second. It is a season. It is 79 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 2: a season that sometimes stretches two to three years. It 80 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: is a process of build up and fallout that kind 81 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 2: of decimates our lives in a way. But sometimes for 82 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: the best Saturn return, you don't actually just have one. 83 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: You some people could have three. Most people have about two. 84 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: Around the age of fifty eight to sixty, you experience 85 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: another one again, and then around the age of eighty 86 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: to ninety, if you're lucky enough, is when you'll experience 87 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 2: perhaps your final one. Each return is said to mark 88 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: a new kind of stage in life. The first one 89 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: is the shift into true adulthood, the second is the 90 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: shift into elder wisdom, and the third is the shift 91 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: into legacy. And a lot will change during these periods. 92 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 2: So we know the pop culture references to Satin returns, 93 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: but historically references to this cycle go way back to 94 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: ancient Roman and Greek astrology, where Satin or Cronus in 95 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: Greece wasn't just a planet, It was a god that 96 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 2: represented discipline, restriction, boundaries, and time itself. The god Satin 97 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: also represented agriculture, wealth, the seasons, partying, so he had 98 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: a lot of hats. He had a lot of hats. 99 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 2: But astrologically, the planet of Saturn is considered kind of 100 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 2: a task master planet, so a task masker planet. I 101 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 2: didn't know this before researching this episode basically signifies comic lessons. 102 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 2: It's a planet that's responsible or influences how we face 103 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: our limits, how we face reality, how we face the 104 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 2: things that we've perhaps avoided, and so, in astrology speak, 105 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: satin return all of this comes to this point whereby 106 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 2: you confront the structures that you've built in your twenties, 107 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: and you are tested on them, and you have to 108 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: determine whether they are truly yours or they are borrowed 109 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: from other people's expectations. And this is why our life 110 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: feels like it kind of falls apart, even if it's 111 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 2: not noticeable, things are going to change. Forew it is 112 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 2: a coming of age, and it's actually an opportunity to 113 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: put a positive spin on it, to create a life 114 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: that really aligns with your deeper purpose and your deeper goals. 115 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: So the modern popularization of Saturn and Saturn returns really 116 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: started in the twentieth century, particularly with the boom of 117 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: astrology in the nineteen sixties and seventies, when psychics, tarot cards, 118 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: fortune tellers like that industry exploded. It's definitely had a 119 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: renaissance though in the past decade, obviously due to pop culture, 120 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: but also due to social media, where people have started 121 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: to name this experience using this label, and it's really 122 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: validated for a lot of people, the chaos that they 123 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 2: have come to experience or are experiencing in their late twenties. 124 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: Maybe saturin returns is just a metaphor for the things 125 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: that we are enduring. Let's doom out a little bit. 126 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: Why are we so drawn to this explanation. Why do 127 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: we like explanations like this in general, of astrology, of numerology, 128 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: of cycles of fate, or the idea that life comes 129 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: in seasons, because that's what this really is. First off, 130 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 2: the reason that we like the idea of a satin 131 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: returns or anything of the sort is that we are 132 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: meaning making creatures when things are uncertain, like early adulthood, 133 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: like our twenties, having a framework can really soothe us. Frameworks, 134 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: however arbitrary, they do actually provide a psychological feeling of 135 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: safety and a narrative by which we can live. We 136 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 2: like patterns because they give us a sense of control. 137 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: Even if life feels terrible and scary, you can feel like, okay, well, 138 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: maybe this is supposed to happen right now because of 139 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 2: this explanation that someone is giving me, and that is 140 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: why our belief in these systems actually does tend to 141 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 2: increase in our twenties when we are desperate in many 142 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: ways for actual external systems and explanations for why life 143 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: is like hitting all of these ups and downs. There 144 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: is literally a whole field of psychology dedicated to this 145 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 2: idea of meaning making, and it's called narrative psychology. This 146 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: field basically says that humans identities and our understanding of 147 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: the world and the world around us like it is 148 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: constructed through stories and the stories we tell ourselves. How 149 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: you experience a breakup will be determined by the story 150 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 2: of your relationship. How you relate to your siblings is 151 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: determined by the story of your childhood. How you approach 152 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: risk is determined by stories or folks stories of what 153 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 2: this really means and what we need to go through 154 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 2: and what the stars are telling us or what the 155 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 2: universe is telling us. In this way, astrology is a 156 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 2: symbolic storytelling system which provides us with a really meaningful 157 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 2: narrative for life, whether it is real or not. Like, 158 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: I'm not going to make any statements either way, it 159 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: doesn't actually matter. It doesn't matter if it's real. It's 160 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: the comfort that it provides us. And anything that you 161 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: know is real, that comes from that or that comes 162 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: from the stars is kind of just a bonus in 163 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: my mind. So let's talk about what actually tends to 164 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 2: happen in this sad and return season, because the astrological 165 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: explanation is one thing, but there is also a very 166 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: solid psychological side to all of this, and that's where 167 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: this idea of emerging adulthood becomes important to understand. Jeffrey 168 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 2: Arnot He is a developmental psychologist. He coined the term 169 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 2: emerging adulthood to basically describe the period between eighteen and 170 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 2: twenty nine, that is for a lot of people and 171 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: in between stage where you are not a teenager anymore, 172 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 2: but you may not be fully settled into what most 173 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: people think of as adulthood either. Now, at this stage, 174 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: a few things start to happened to us because of 175 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: changing expectations, because of how our brain is developing, because 176 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: of you know, external things. Mainly, we start to feel 177 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: like we need to get more serious about this adult thing, 178 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: but also we still have a lot of unanswered questions 179 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: and things that we need to learn. And those two truths, 180 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 2: the need to know and the not knowing start to 181 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 2: clash against each other. Let's start with the impact of 182 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 2: this confusion on our relationships. For a lot of people, 183 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: relationships are at the front and center of this period 184 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: in their twenties, romantic ones especially. You will see this happening, 185 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: and I have seen this happening quite regularly. You know, 186 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: you might have been with someone since you were twenty two, 187 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: and by twenty eight, you know, you're realizing that a person, 188 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 2: this person isn't quite the same match to you as 189 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 2: you were when you first started dating. This is why 190 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: breakups around this stage are so common. You're kind of 191 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 2: at this turning point. We commit and we make this 192 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: for the rest of our lives, or we have this 193 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: opportunity to really have our last moment of being single 194 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 2: in our twenties or find someone new, and it feels 195 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 2: like this is the point where we have to decide. 196 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 2: I can think of literally four people off the top 197 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: of my head who I know who have broken up 198 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: with their partner of four plus years right before they 199 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 2: turn thirty in the past year alone. It is a 200 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: huge phenomena. Psychologists even track this theory and can track 201 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: this pattern of relationship dissolution in the late twenties, and 202 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,599 Speaker 2: they suggest that many long term relationships either end or 203 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: transition into marriage during this period. And it's actually quite 204 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 2: a normal turning point for people. It's one of the 205 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: most common times and time periods when people are likely 206 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 2: to split up and to go their own way. So 207 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: if you have been through a really seismic, terrible life 208 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: shattering breakup at the end of your twenties or during 209 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: your satin return, it's actually not that uncommon, and it's 210 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: actually probably a good thing that you have made this 211 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 2: decision at this moment. Another really famous theory comes from 212 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 2: Eric Ericksson. We talk about him a lot. He's a 213 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 2: German American psychoanalyst, and he says that the reason this 214 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: happens is because we are moving through what we call 215 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: an intimacy versus isolation stage of development at this point 216 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 2: in time. So as we enter our late twenties, we 217 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 2: do start to develop a much more secure sense of 218 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: self and identity. It's something that we all look forward to. 219 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 2: You know, the older we get, we know ourselves more. 220 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 2: This newfound self awareness that is what begins to expose 221 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 2: fundamental incompatibilities that were maybe tolerated or overlooked. When you 222 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: were younger, you may have built your identity around this 223 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 2: partner or this person, or may have been something together. 224 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 2: But as you have I've found yourself more as you 225 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: have created your own independent identity. Just by aging you 226 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: realize like this person isn't for me, You need space. 227 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 2: You may ultimately need to break up as as well. 228 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: You know, the expectation to get married or settled down 229 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: becomes louder. I think you also start to have to 230 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: answer some very existential questions like do I want to 231 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: be loved this way for the rest of my life? 232 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 2: If this is all that love will ever be? Is 233 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: this enough? And by gollie, gosh, like you need to 234 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: answer that question now. And I know it creates such 235 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: a sense of impending doom and such a sense of 236 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 2: like literal terror, but it's required of you so that 237 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 2: you don't end up in these situations. We see all 238 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: the time of people in loveless marriages or with people 239 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: they really knew they weren't want to be with years 240 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: and years down the line, wishing that at twenty eight 241 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: they just cut their losses. To sound completely callous, it's 242 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 2: not just romantic relationships. Friendships shift in big ways during 243 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: this time as well. Remember how in your teens and 244 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: even early twenties, friendships were like they were inbuilt right, 245 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: You didn't really have to try. It was definitely from 246 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: a place of convenience. School roommates, shared experiences, shared hobbies, 247 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: You could always find someone there. As we get older, 248 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 2: as we move, as we take up jobs, as we 249 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 2: couple up, as we have kids, friendships suddenly require a 250 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 2: real intentional maintenance, and a lot of people will hit 251 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 2: the mid twenties late twenties mark having had people fall 252 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: off kind of in trickles for a while and look 253 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: around and be like, oh, there's no one left. I'm 254 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: deeply lonely. I had this moment myself recently, like I 255 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: feel like I talk about loneliness a lot on the podcast, 256 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 2: and it's been like an ongoing, you know, battle with me. 257 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: But I just had this moment where a lot of 258 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: my friends have moved overseas, if my best friends have 259 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: moved overseas in the last six months, and I was like, Wow, 260 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: my friendship circle and my network is a lot thinner 261 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: than it used to, and there's a lot of panic 262 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: in that. There's a lot of panic in being like 263 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: do I want it to remain this way? Or do 264 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: I want to do something try things to change that. Again, 265 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: the research consistently backs this up. For example, in a 266 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: meta analysis of over two hundred and seventy studies, research 267 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: has found that, on average, social networks decrease in size 268 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: as people age. The steepest decline occurs at this point 269 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: right now in young adulthood, in our late twenties early thirties. 270 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: There's a lot of circumstantial reasons for this, but basically, 271 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: if we think about it, our lives generally get busier 272 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: and typically like the effort that we feel we can 273 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: reasonably put into our friendships becomes a lot smaller, and 274 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: it's why you have less friends. It's why you might 275 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 2: find yourself being very lonely. Now, it doesn't mean that 276 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 2: that's like going to happen and be the way for 277 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: the rest of your life. I think it is again 278 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: the wake up call, do I want to live like 279 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 2: this for the next fifty years? Okay, we're going to 280 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 2: take a short break here, but when we come back, 281 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 2: we're going to talk family, We're going to talk career, 282 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 2: we're going to talk identity and also how to overcome 283 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 2: the tumultuous period of your satin return. 284 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: Stay with us. 285 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: So we've talked about the changes that satin return brings 286 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,239 Speaker 2: up for our relationships and for our friendships. And then 287 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,479 Speaker 2: there's our family and how shifting dynamics during this period 288 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 2: of our life can really explode out into this very 289 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 2: unique kind of relationship. I think this one can kind 290 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: of sneak up on you in your early twenties. I 291 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: think family is like back ground noise, Like you're kind 292 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 2: of out in the world. You're like living your own life. 293 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: Maybe you're like calling home once in a while, like 294 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: you visit on the holidays. It's a very common thing 295 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 2: that around your late twenties often like the role of 296 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 2: your family comes rushing back to the front row and 297 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 2: we kind of turn around, do this orbit and rely 298 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 2: on them suddenly almost as much as that we did 299 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 2: when we were children for a lot of things, especially 300 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: emotionally for many of us. This is also when the 301 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 2: reality of like aging parents starts to land, Like you 302 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 2: do start to notice little things like your dad's memory 303 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 2: is slipping, or your mum gets tired more easily, or 304 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 2: you know, you have this moment where you celebrate. You 305 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 2: celebrate like a huge milestone birthday for your grandparents and 306 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 2: are like, huh, I don't think they have many years left. 307 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 2: It's also when a lot of people experience real serious loss. 308 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 2: Some people experience it earlier, which is heartbreaking, but I 309 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 2: think this is when a lot of people start to 310 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: lose parents or they start to really see serious declines 311 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 2: and their well being. That forces you to reckon not 312 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 2: just with like the fragility of life and of their lives, 313 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 2: but like, yeah, the fragility of existence and how serious 314 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 2: it is to take things seriously and to like really 315 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 2: go after what you want when time is finite. That's 316 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 2: a lot of again, big existential questions. All of it 317 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 2: is coming back to this questioning. This like in the 318 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 2: back of our mind. For some of us as well, 319 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 2: this is like the first time where you get a 320 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: real taste of like caregiving. Maybe you start helping with bills, 321 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 2: with doctor's appointments, maybe you become like a steady emotional support. 322 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 2: And this role reversal can feel disorientating, right. There's actually 323 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: a phrase called fhilaleal maturity? Is it filaleal fili lil? 324 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 2: I don't know how to pronounce it, you know, when 325 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 2: you only ever see a word written down, someone's gonna 326 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 2: correct me in the comments, I'm gonna go with filile 327 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 2: filile maturity, and it basically describes this exact stage when 328 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 2: like the adult child becomes the parent to their parent 329 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: and they start to really see their caregivers as whole people. 330 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 2: You know, you no longer have that like fantasy of 331 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: them being invincible, Like they have limits, they have flaws, 332 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 2: they need you to take care of them. It's really 333 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: really bittersweet and very difficult because you have to kind 334 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 2: of acknowledge that there's this new role you're entering as 335 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 2: this adult who may have to do this alone at 336 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 2: some stage, and who has to come to terms with 337 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: the fact that time is passing and this person might 338 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 2: not always be there. But family work isn't just about 339 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 2: your immediate family and your parents. It's also like when 340 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 2: we start to question, like do I want my own family, 341 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 2: do I want kids? You know, this is the first 342 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: time where you can really zone out. And I know 343 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 2: a lot of people like have children younger, but actually, 344 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: in this generation, I feel like we spend a lot 345 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: of our early twenties being like freedom. Yeah, like I'm 346 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 2: gonna be exploratory and I'm gonna just try things out, 347 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: and like I'm gonna try and not take this all 348 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: as seriously as maybe I want to or I should, 349 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 2: and I'm gonna have fun. And then it's like you 350 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 2: get to twenty seven and you're like, I need to 351 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 2: start answering some big questions and whether I want kids, 352 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 2: whether I'm capable of being a parent, whether I've dealt 353 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 2: with my family shit enough to be good in this role. Again, 354 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 2: it's like landing straight in your lap, along with like 355 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: a million other things all happening at the same time. 356 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: This is why like sat in return is often referred 357 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 2: to as like a cumulative process. Right, It's not just 358 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 2: the breakup, It's not just the friendship, you know, dissolution, 359 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 2: It's not just the big questions about what do I 360 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: want from my future. It's then family, It's then questions 361 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 2: about your identity and of course also Korea. Like we 362 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 2: cannot talk about sat in return and what it will 363 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 2: do to us if we do not talk about the 364 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: shifts that we will experience in our professional identity and 365 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 2: at work. This one is huge again. Early twenties experimentation, 366 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 2: first jobs, internships, trying things out, it's not that serious. 367 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 2: It might be serious, it's not necessarily permanent. Then it's 368 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: like the clock has been counting down and you're like, 369 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 2: oh my god, suddenly I have to make a decision. 370 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: The trial period is over. Am I going to commit 371 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 2: to this life or am I going to choose something else? 372 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: Is this what I want to do? Is this really it? 373 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 2: Some people pivot completely, and I have seen friends do 374 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: this and it's been marvelous to watch. They go back 375 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 2: to school, they start businesses, they chase creative projects. Others 376 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: just get more serious and they start to double down 377 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 2: and think about climate in the corporate ladder. But almost 378 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 2: everyone will feel this at this moment in their career, 379 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: of confronting feelings of feeling stuck, of needing more meaning, 380 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 2: of panicking about their future. There's actually a study from 381 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 2: the Journal of Vocational Behavior that followed people in their 382 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: late twenties around twenty eight to thirty and found that 383 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 2: those who felt most dissatisfied at work weren't necessarily in 384 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 2: bad jobs. A lot of them were making good money, 385 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: but it was that these jobs didn't line up with 386 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 2: what they were recognizing that they personally valued. In other words, 387 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 2: you know they cared about creativity, but they were only 388 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 2: doing a job that cared about efficiency. They craved purpose, 389 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 2: but you know their job only offered a good paycheck 390 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 2: and nothing else. The mismatch is where the discomfort is 391 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 2: coming from, and it does tend to come to a 392 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 2: head right around this age, when we are finally comparing 393 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: the life we thought we'd have with the one that 394 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 2: we're actually living. Part of that dissatisfaction also links to, 395 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: just like plain old geograph, environment plays a really big 396 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 2: role in the satin return stage. There's this like joke 397 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 2: that me and my friends have that everyone in Australia 398 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 2: turns twenty seven and moves to London because oh my god, 399 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 2: like it just seems like such a common pattern. I'm 400 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 2: doing it like I can't even like I am the 401 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 2: butt of my own joke, like I'm moving to London. 402 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 2: I felt like there's this big call in you at 403 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 2: this stage to just be like, let me see what 404 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 2: else is out there before I click by now on 405 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 2: the life that I currently have. The late twenties are 406 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 2: like a hot spot for moving both physically and psychologically, 407 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 2: and we're also going to see our personality shift as well. 408 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 2: People often quote this idea that, like the brain fully 409 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 2: matures at twenty five, that's actually not correct. Part of 410 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 2: the reason why you might be experiencing a lot of 411 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 2: like tumultuousness is because you know you expect to feel 412 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 2: like you have locked into this more mature, smarter thinking system, 413 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 2: but actually you are going to experience another rapid burst 414 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 2: of pruning and changes in your brain that will influence 415 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 2: your personality in your late twenties. In our late twenties, 416 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 2: a lot of us become slightly more conscientious. We tend 417 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,479 Speaker 2: to become more responsible, more reliable, simply because we are 418 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: adapting to the increasing roles that we are facing in 419 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: our lives. But along with that comes a heavier awareness 420 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 2: of the limits of this change. You can't do anything, 421 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 2: you can't be everything, and that's where this like creeping 422 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: feeling of like premature failure can show up, this nagging 423 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: feeling of like I should have had it all figured out, 424 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: and how we respond to that can actually be quite irrational. 425 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 2: So everyone saying like you get more mature, you're able 426 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 2: to make more mature decisions and be more straightforward with 427 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 2: your life. Then there is this final burst often in 428 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 2: our late twenties, where we might call it an extinction burst, 429 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 2: we might call it rallying where right before we feel 430 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 2: like we've locked into like our new mature brain, right 431 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 2: before like we feel like we're going to retire this 432 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: part of our life, we revisit it one more time 433 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 2: and we go out with a bang. Dan McAdams he 434 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 2: is this researcher who studies narrative identity. He has written 435 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: about how around twenty nine many people have what he 436 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: calls a redemptive turning point. It's that moment when the 437 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 2: story you've been telling yourself for most of your twenties, 438 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: like you just so like don't want it anymore, or 439 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 2: you're like, if I'm going to finish this story, I'm 440 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 2: going to go off on a major tangent before I do. 441 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 2: A lot of people have this moment where they're like 442 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 2: their personality almost regresses or returns to an earlier stage 443 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 2: before it comes back for like its final moment. And 444 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 2: it's not to say that like once you turn thirty, 445 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: like you're locked down, this is who you're going to 446 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 2: be for the rest of your life. No, your brain 447 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 2: continues to develop. Your personality actually does continue to change 448 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 2: for the rest of your life. But this is just 449 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 2: one of those moments where like we really see like 450 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 2: a spike or like a differentiation in activity. So if 451 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: saturn return, your satin return feels like everything is changing, 452 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: it's good to know that this is actually just a 453 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 2: part of human development. I think it's very soothing to 454 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 2: see it as something that see it as a process 455 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 2: that you have to go through. If all of this 456 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 2: is sounding suspiciously like a quarter life crisis or rock bottom, 457 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 2: you are not wrong. The astrological definition is one thing. 458 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: This does have another name, whether we call it sat 459 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 2: in return, whether we call it a quarter life crisis, 460 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 2: these are actually incredibly similar, and people have done studies 461 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 2: where they have compared self reporting and anecdotal reporting on 462 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 2: these experiences side by side. They're kind of explaining like 463 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 2: the same thing and applying a quarter life crisis perspective 464 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 2: on our satin returns, I think gives us and gives 465 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 2: like allows us to have a more psychological take on it. 466 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 2: This isn't just a pop psychology term. Again, this is 467 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 2: a very real transition that if you got oneenty twenty 468 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 2: somethings in a room, you could literally map it. You 469 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 2: could map it time and time again. Where these changes 470 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 2: start to happen. Why tension in love, tension in careers, 471 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 2: tension in family is going to push us to change 472 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: who we are? Okay, what do we do about it? 473 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 2: I feel like I've gone on long enough about like 474 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 2: the things that you are going to experience or have experienced, 475 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 2: and perhaps why And if you're feeling totally lost and 476 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 2: like life is beyond repair, what is the first step 477 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 2: that you have to take to at least just feel 478 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 2: a little bit less uncomfortable in this period? What can 479 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 2: we do to help ourselves? Well, I'm going to give 480 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: you some suggestions from not really my own experience, but 481 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 2: from ye my own experience with like rock bottom moments 482 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: and hard moments, but also from people who have lived 483 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 2: to tell the tale. This is a pilgrimage, right This 484 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 2: is an identity pilgrimage that millions, no billions of people 485 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 2: have gone through before you. So as isolating as it 486 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 2: feels right now, research does show that people who actively 487 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 2: wrestle with their identity development and with uncertainty in their twenties, 488 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: and who confront it head on, they actually emerge with 489 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 2: stronger self knowledge. They emerge with greater resilience in their 490 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,479 Speaker 2: thirties compared to people who try and ignore it or 491 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 2: push through in a life that they don't actually like. 492 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 2: So not to sound like a toxic positivity guru, but 493 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: going through this now and as intensely as you are 494 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 2: is ultimately a good thing and is saving you from 495 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 2: investing further in this life and then feeling like you're 496 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: even more responsible for it and you'd have to sacrifice 497 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 2: so much more to leave. Don't shoot me for saying that. 498 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 2: I know that if you're going through it right now, 499 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 2: like secretly, that's not something that you want to hear. 500 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: But the application and finding meaning in it all actually 501 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 2: is really helpful for the process. If we think back 502 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 2: to that narrative identity research again, we will find that 503 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 2: the story we tell ourselves about who we are and 504 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 2: what we're going through and why our challenges are important 505 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 2: actually makes a huge difference to how we approach them, 506 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: And a lot of this does come down to reframing. 507 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 2: It's easy to see endings, the ending of a relationship, 508 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 2: a job, a friendship, a city that you lived in 509 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 2: as a failure, but during this period, endings are often 510 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 2: just realignments or maybe even protection, whether you want to 511 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: call it the planets, God, the universe, your brain. You 512 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 2: need to give this period in your life a label, 513 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 2: and you need to acknowledge why it may be necessary 514 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: in order to have that meaning that makes it feel 515 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 2: like you couldn't have it any other way, Like you 516 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 2: can't see it as defeat. Anytime that you like have 517 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 2: a negative connotation or a negative thought about this that 518 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 2: feels unbearable and life changing. You're allowed to feel crap 519 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 2: day to day. But anytime you have a thought that's 520 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 2: like this is never going to get better, this is 521 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 2: completely useless. My whole life has better down for nothing. Again, 522 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 2: the meaning making can frame the upheaval as part of 523 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 2: your story. It's the chapter where you figure out who 524 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 2: you are. It's the chapter where you figure out what 525 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: matters to you, what life you actually want. That in 526 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 2: itself will make all of this feel a lot more 527 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 2: terrifying and more purposeful. I also want you to make 528 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 2: a promise to yourself. I am going to work through this. 529 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 2: I'm going to give up some control for the first 530 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: time in my life. I'm going to let myself float 531 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 2: through these changes and let life take me where it 532 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 2: wants me to go I'm not going to fight it. 533 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: This is the promise I want you to make. I'm 534 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 2: not going to fight it. I'm going to actually allow 535 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 2: myself to be surprised. It's a very stoic idea. But 536 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: you might not be able to make this chapter easier. 537 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 2: You can just allow yourself to struggle a little bit less. Also, 538 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 2: ask people about their own period of this in their lives. 539 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 2: Ask your parents, ask your older friends. Hear their stories. 540 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: Everyone who I have asked has been like, I wouldn't 541 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 2: be who I am today without what I went through 542 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 2: during my Satin Return or during this period of the 543 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 2: end of my twenties. I would go through it again 544 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 2: in a heartbeat. It has made me who I am. 545 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 2: It's like people exchanging war stories. Like it's scary, it's 546 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 2: also strangely comforting for people involved. Right there is this 547 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 2: great article from the Cut titled seven Satin Return Survival Stories. 548 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: I think it's behind a pay well you should still 549 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 2: get the free subscription or like the free seven day 550 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: trial and read it because it is these stories from 551 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: these incredible women who are on the other side there 552 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 2: in the mid thirties early forties, who are now have 553 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 2: the hindsight to reflect and give us the wisdom on 554 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 2: this period that you may really require. Some other advice 555 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 2: that I've gotten is to just choose one thing to 556 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 2: ground you and stay loyal to during this period, so 557 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 2: when everything else is changing, find something that's stable. Start 558 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 2: for a half marathon, Start a reading challenge, commit to 559 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 2: journaling every night. Go sober adoctor kat foster a dog. 560 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: Focus on being a good family member, a good volunteer, 561 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 2: a good community member. Start a new project. Just choose 562 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 2: something that is within your control to center you, kind 563 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 2: of like an anchor. That is going to be something 564 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 2: that you can come back to, this touch point that 565 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 2: you can always have agency around, that's going to bring 566 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 2: you a little bit of peace. Also write, record yourself, 567 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 2: make a private video diary. Capture this moment for yourself 568 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 2: in the future to really take in all the lessons 569 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 2: that you are learning right now. I did this when 570 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 2: I went through my first adult big girl breakup. I 571 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 2: still have the videos. It's painful to watch, but I 572 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 2: suggest it to anyone and everyone who was going through 573 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 2: something really hard. I recorded myself every single time I 574 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 2: felt down about the relationship, or I felt like crying, 575 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: or I was crying and and I kept doing that 576 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 2: until I didn't want to, until I didn't need to anymore. 577 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 2: And documenting that pain and these changes it makes it 578 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 2: feel like it's important and it means something. You don't 579 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 2: share it with anyone, like I've never shared that video. Well, 580 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 2: I think there's like fifty videos, to be honest, Like, 581 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 2: I've never shared those. It's kind of just for me. 582 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 2: And when I go back and I watch it, like 583 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 2: the final video is was me. I think I can't 584 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 2: remember whether it was like a year or two years later, 585 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 2: but it was really heartwarming. It was just this video 586 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: of me being like it's gonna be okay, and it 587 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 2: was okay, and kind of laughing in a nice way, 588 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 2: like this previous version of me who was so deep 589 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,280 Speaker 2: in despair, like she did not see it getting any better, 590 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 2: and here I was like telling her that it did. 591 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 2: And I think that having that for yourself is truly powerful. 592 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 2: And having the vision of a fewture you of being 593 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 2: able to look back in hindsight and celebrate this period 594 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 2: is a lot of comfort in itself. I'm sending you 595 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 2: guys a lot of love. I think you just need 596 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 2: to have patience. You just need to have patience that 597 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 2: this is part of the long, messy work of being 598 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 2: human and of being in your twenties and your twenties, 599 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 2: you know, they just want to go out with a bang, 600 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 2: Like they've taught you so much. They continue to teach 601 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 2: you so much. They want to like get all the 602 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 2: lessons in before you enter this new chapter. So leave 603 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 2: space for that. Leave space to just like learn and 604 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 2: process and grieve and share, share, share what you are 605 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 2: going through with other people. Sometimes, like the best remedy 606 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 2: is someone else just being like, yeah, me too, and 607 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 2: not feeling alone. So again, good luck. I'm actually deeply 608 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 2: excited for you. Obviously, I'm not going through it with you, 609 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 2: so like I'm sure if I was in your shoes, 610 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 2: I would not want to. Here's someone saying that, So 611 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but I am deeply excited for you. I 612 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 2: just think so much amazing stuff is going to come 613 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 2: out of this that you don't even know yet. How 614 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: cool is that? If you enjoyed this episode, make sure 615 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 2: to leave a comment down below. Tell me when your 616 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 2: satin return began, was it a little bit earlier? Are 617 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 2: you still going through it? What are you learning during 618 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 2: this period? Let's share some of those stories below so 619 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 2: that hopefully people can scroll through them and be like, 620 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 2: oh my god, I feel so much less alone. I 621 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 2: want to thank our research assistant, Libby Colbert as always 622 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 2: for her help on this episode. She has taught me 623 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 2: so much about astrology as we kind of put together 624 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 2: yeah this topic, so I appreciate her so much for 625 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 2: all of her assistants. Make sure that you are following 626 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: us over on Instagram at that Psychology podcast to see 627 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 2: behind the scenes. We also have decemb Me guest month 628 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 2: coming up at the end of the year, so if 629 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 2: you want to see who was going to be on 630 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 2: the show, who you're going to hear from, well, you 631 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 2: better follow along. Our transcripts are as well, now available 632 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 2: on substack, and this episode is actually on YouTube. You've 633 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 2: kind of already finished it if you're listening to this, 634 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 2: so you might not want to go and rewatch it, 635 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,439 Speaker 2: But if you want to watch future episodes of the show, 636 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 2: you should follow us over there The Psychology of Your 637 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 2: Twenties on YouTube. But until next time, stay safe, be kind, 638 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 2: be gentle to yourself, good luck with your satin return, 639 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,399 Speaker 2: and we will talk very very soon.