WEBVTT - Whatever happened to the paperless office? 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.920 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:17.680 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.000 and welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:21.520 and I am the tech editor here at how stuff 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.280 works dot com, sitting across from me as usual as 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.320 senior writer Jonathan Strickland. And we're coming to you live 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:32.080 from the bowels of Hades. Well, no, but it just 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.720 feels like it because we're in our temporary studio until 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:39.279 our regular studio is completely done being renovated. And it's 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.280 a very very small office with a lot of computer 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.479 and equipment, and it's quite warm. Yeah, we have all 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.400 the lights off. Um, we're stripped down to just our 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:52.040 our underwear. UM. I am, of course wearing the Batman 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.720 under ru'se Um. Please help me. Yeah, last week it 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:57.400 was The Wonder Woman once and I was told that 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.720 was not appropriate. Uh So anyway, probably wouldn't have been 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:03.800 such a big deal if you hadn't been walking around 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.880 the office afterward. It was the lariat that was really 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.679 giving people the problem. It's like, tell me the truth. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.000 I really hope we're going to edit this out. No, 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.119 this is gonna state Liz, this all states and alight 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:22.280 once we're done. And Mr Fredericks in the background snickering. 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.399 Uh no, here's the problem, folks. It's hot and I'm 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.559 I'm punchy. So just just warning you before we really 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.320 get into this this episode. But this episode does come 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:38.279 to us courtesy of a little listener mail. This listener 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.880 mail comes from our our friend the scene. We've had 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.040 him right in before. All right, So anyway, he says, Hi, 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:49.800 j n C. I just wanted to give our first 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.040 initial basis that's how good a friend he is, and 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.440 any signs off tasks. So I just wanted to give 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.120 a podcast suggestion because I don't remember hearing anything about 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.000 it lately. I used to work as a docu management consultant, 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.080 helping companies convert large filing systems of paper documents into 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.080 electronic files with a database for search and retrieval. So 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.120 my question, slash suggestion, how far are we from the 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.080 paperless office? Is this even a goal of organizations anymore? Thanks? 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.600 Love the show, So we're going to talk about what 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.080 the heck happened to the paperless office? Uh, this is 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:24.600 something that we've been hearing about for decades, quite a 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.360 long time. And you all right, let me ask you this, Chris, 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:33.840 from just your personal opinion, just technologically speaking and technologically only, 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.000 do you think technologically we are at a point where 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:40.240 a paperless office is possible? Not only yes, but I 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.840 think we have been technologically at a point where it 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.480 is possible to do it. I completely agree with you, Chris. Absolutely, 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.440 we are at a point right now where we could 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.920 go paperless if we really wanted to from the technological 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.600 standpoint point. But here's the here's the issue. It turns 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.880 out that offices are full of these things we call 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:09.000 um was it people and people work differently than technology. Uh. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.400 There are a couple of reasons for this. One is 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:13.320 a good a good point that was made in the 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.520 Myth of the Paperless Office. That's a book by Abigail 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.079 Selling in Richard Harper, Yeah, which you can buy in print. Yeah, 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.240 and not yes, you can. You can actually buy a 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:28.280 print copy of the pattern. It is kind of funny. Um. 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.280 So the points actually a pretty interesting book. I'd like 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.080 to go back and read it cover to cover because 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.960 it's it's actually kind of interesting. Yeah. Well, the one 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.800 of the points they make is that business evolved along 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.160 with the use of paper, So with you know, paper 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:47.040 wasn't an integral part of the way business started and 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.320 and uh, and the way we think of business today, 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.040 paper is a very important part of that and just 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.440 taking it out of the equation just because you happen 0:03:55.480 --> 0:04:00.400 to have a computer doesn't really work. Yeah, it's funny 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:04.680 because they're they're trying to take back the idea of 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.720 the paperless office to its roots. Um. And it was 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.000 a Business Week article in nineties seventies and they were 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.520 talking to uh, Xerox Park had George Pick who was 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.559 talking about the Office of the Future. How many times 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:20.760 have we talked about the Office of the Future on 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.400 the podcast? Um? But the funny thing is, uh, he 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.320 didn't actually say that people have attributed it to him, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.279 But he didn't actually say that the Office of the 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.080 Future would have no paper in it. In fact, that probably, 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.479 as uh Selling and Harper point out, that probably would 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:37.240 have been a very bad idea for him to say, 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:42.560 since Xerox makes copiers. Um. But uh, you know it. 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.920 But he said that, you know, there are technologies that 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:46.760 are changing. The typewriter is going to go away, was 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.160 one of them, and I think people sort of extrapolated 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.599 from there. But I mean even um, in Dan Norman's 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.240 book The Invisible Computer h. Thomas Edison, you know, they 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.760 were talking about some of the recording technology that he 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.480 came up with, you know, the cylinders, the black cylinders, 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.760 and people would be able to make a recording of 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.080 something and give it to someone else, so they wouldn't 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.760 necessarily have to write out a memo to give to 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:09.480 somebody else in the office. They could actually give you 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.680 the recording, um and pass that around or you know, 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:18.040 Veneva bushes memex from uh you know, as we may 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.320 think back in the Atlantic article and that's another really 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.160 good article to read if you're interested in if you 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.680 had this idea, how um this sort of foreshadowed and 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.479 sort of became a self fulfilling prophecy of the internet, 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:31.800 that you would have a desk where you had all 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.520 your materials and you would store them all on microfilm 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.880 because again the internet he hadn't been invented yet. Um. 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.320 But rather than you know, keeping a desk full of 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.320 files and file folders and stuff on paper, you would 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.680 basically take a snapshot of it and put it on microfilm, 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.160 which is much smaller and more convenient to store. Um. 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.080 You know. So people had a number of different ideas 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.560 that had led up to it, and you know when 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.359 they actually started thinking about the concept of well, you know, 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.920 we could we could scannal this stuff in and store it. 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.679 It would be so easy to go without paper. But yes, 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.120 as it turns out, on a computer screen, you can't 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.359 spread it all over your desk and see how everything 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.279 fits together, or you know, tack it up to the wall. 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.200 Or let's say that you have a report and the 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:17.880 points you really want to hit in the report when 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.200 you're making your presentation are on pages one and seven. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.599 It's very easy to take page one and then take 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.840 page seven and leave everything else behind in a physical format. 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.360 Now you can do that electronically too, don't get me wrong, 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:32.880 but there's an extra step there. I mean, you've got 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.679 that interface that you have to work with with the computer. 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.599 With paper, you literally pick up one sheet of paper, 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.920 pick up a second sheet of paper, and you're done, right, 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.960 So I mean, there's no dealing with anything else. It 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:49.160 is a very fast system. Um there. So paper has 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.680 a real use in business and uh and and there's ah, 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.440 so there's there's that part where paper and business are 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.400 so closely entwined that uh that a truly paperless office 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.080 is a difficult thing to manage. It's not impossible. There 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.320 are offices that have done it, or at least have 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.800 reduced paper to such an extent that you could more 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.720 or less call them paperless. But for the most part, 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.600 most businesses still rely, at least in some measure on 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:19.240 paper because it's useful. It's useful, and it's easy, and 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:25.240 we we have it culturally ingrained in us to use paper. Yep. UM. 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.120 When you think about it, to paper is a form 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.720 of technology. It's just a form of technology that's been 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.040 ubiquitous for so long that we don't even think of 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.480 it's being that way. It's there, but it is high 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.120 tech we think about it. UM. It stays around for 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.120 a very long time. I mean the quality of ink 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.600 and the quality of paper that we have now, UM 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.200 it's a lot more likely to last fifteen years than 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.680 a particular file format. UM. That doesn't mean that we 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.239 can't fix that, but the way things have been involving 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:00.160 right now. UM libraries, for example, have have a very 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.840 difficult time with this because UM file formats have been changing, 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.400 the machines that play different kinds of file formats, changed 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.520 the programs that are used. They go out of date. 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.800 So the thing is, you have a you know, for example, 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.640 we'll take from some something from my background, something I 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.200 wrote in scribble for the Commodore Amiga, and I have 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.840 it stored on a three point five inch floppy disc 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.400 that I wrote out in college. Now I was, you 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.000 know about let's say twenty years ago, which it was 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.760 just about it's twenty years old. Something that I wrote 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:35.240 on a piece of paper from that time would be 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.959 perfectly legible and well, it would be perfectly readable by 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:44.760 handwriting analysis person um. But the thing is, if I 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.080 wanted to read the file on that floppy disc number one, 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:52.000 I would have to hope that the material, the magnetic medium, 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.800 hadn't corrupted. You know, I'd become so brittle by this 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.720 point that it is, uh, you know, unreadable. I would 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:59.360 have funding to Megat to run it on. I would 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:04.800 have funding to me with scribble on it, and it's 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:09.480 rendered almost inaccessible. So yeah, it's so difficult to get to. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:13.440 Now the Internet has managed to take a lot of 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.640 those concerns and kind of put them to the side, 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.800 just from the sense that you can store things in 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:21.600 the cloud now and even as as companies upgrade their 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.760 cloud systems, they of course have to port old information over. 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:27.400 I mean, if they can't, then they're going to go 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.280 out of business. But that's expensive because it takes people 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.080 to port that stuff over, and you also have to 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.120 file formats and storage capacity and all that stuff. You know, 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.880 It's it ain't cheap, right, But the point being that 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.000 it is it is in fact possible for you to 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.280 now store things electronically where you don't have to worry 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.280 as much about the physical medium or the or the 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:52.640 even the software um going bad on you. I think, 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:54.760 especially when you have access to things like say Google 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:59.319 Docs or the Microsoft Online Suite UM, those you know, 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.520 usually build backwards compatibility into that, and even if the 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:08.319 backwards compatibility starts to kind of slack off later on, 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.680 they'll probably just go ahead and tweak it so that 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.280 you can you can convert your files over into the 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:21.480 proper format. But that that aside, I think just psychologically, 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.960 there's an importance we put on things that are put 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:29.320 on paper that we don't think of an electronic format um. 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.760 And this is kind of armchair psychology. So I mean 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:34.760 this is this is not based on anything scientific or 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.559 any studies. This is Jonathan talking out of his own 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:43.599 armchair psychology. Lazy boy. So, uh I see what you 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:45.600 did there. Yeah, it's kind of hard to fit it 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.720 in the office, and boy is it getting warm in here. 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:53.200 But uh so, the armchair psychology approach is that when 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.760 you have something written down on paper, it's it's got 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.800 a physical presence, right. You can see it, you can 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:00.719 touch it, you can pick it, you can wat it 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.160 up if you want to. You can throw it away. Um, 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.160 you can file it. You can tell your assistant to 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.719 go and unfile it. Find that piece of paper that 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:10.880 you've filed for no reason other than to make that 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.319 person go and get it back for you because you're 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.920 powerful man, Mr Executive. How you like me now, boss? 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.719 Give me the Stevenson report. I think I think it 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:21.120 went off on the rails on that one. But at 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.160 any rate, the point being that it has that physicality 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.000 to it, and that's that's an important factor. When you 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.720 have an electronic file, you know you've got it. It 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.440 doesn't it doesn't it feels like it doesn't really exist. 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.720 You know, it exists on a computer screen. But once 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.280 you turn your computer off, you don't have it in 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.559 your hands anymore. You know, you have to have the 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.840 computer onto or some other device, whether it's a Kindle 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:48.280 or other e reader or a smartphone or whatever whatever 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.120 it is you're using to access that file. Um, you 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:52.960 know you have to have this other device on in 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:54.880 order to access it. And it just doesn't feel like 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.400 it's real, not like not like a piece of paper does. Now, 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.520 if you can get over that, that's cool, But if 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.560 you can't, then you're gonna be like a boss I 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.120 had several years ago at a different company, and I'm 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.760 not gonna name it, but I really did have a 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.920 boss who would get maybe fifty or sixty emails in 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.840 a day, and he printed every single one of them 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.240 and then filed them away. Yeah. I know I know 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.440 other people like that too, And uh, you know I 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.320 know a lot of people two in places that I've worked, actually, 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.600 very various companies from where I've worked, and I'll print 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.559 something that I need and I'll walk over to the 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.360 printer and it will be next to the Actually have 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.320 mentioned this on the podcast before. For you long time 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.400 listeners you will recognize this, But um, there there will 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.320 be a stack of paper, you know, sometimes even you know, 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.760 a whole pack worth of paper sitting next to the 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:52.079 printer of jobs that people have printed but never claimed. Um. 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.880 You know, so they people get it in their head 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:56.480 that they need a copy of it, and they print 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.480 it out, and then they forget that they actually needed it, 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:01.640 and it turns out they didn't need it as bad 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.959 badly as they thought. Well, what's funny because another one 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.920 of the things too that I've read was an article 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:13.520 in The Economist, um and in the eighties and nine nineties, UM, 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.840 during the years when technology was really beginning to catch 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:18.960 on and people started having a computer on their desk, 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.480 uh sometimes at home too, especially in the early eighties. 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.440 You know, that was a real novelty, UM for the 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.000 early part of the decade. But consumption, you know, this 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.319 is when theoretically the Office of the Future was going 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.560 to start eliminating paper. But at that point, consumption of 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:39.080 paper almost you know, more than doubled in those years 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.120 because you know, once the Internet caught on, there was 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.200 all this other information and people wanted copies of it. So, 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.840 you know, in printers became really really good. Desktop publishing 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.439 became a phenomenon and all of a sudden, we were 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.880 printing way more than usual. But since two thousand one, 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.360 apparently paper used to spend in decline um and seems 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:05.080 like social factors may be partially responsible for that because 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.760 people are growing up, they're they're used to the technology. 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.040 Now I don't necessarily need to print the emails and 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.559 file them away. People who have, you know, gone through 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.120 school all the way through with you know, and they're 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.280 used to do the computer and the internet, and they 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.280 don't have to They just don't need to print stuff 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.120 out like they used to. So it's it's starting to decline, 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.360 but it's still it's definitely it's definitely a cultural thing. 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.400 I think if I think as we go on, we 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.520 will arrive at more of are less a paperless office 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.920 kind of environment across most industries. Uh, mainly because by 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.880 then it'll those industries will be staffed by people who 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.240 grew up in that environment that you were talking about. 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:47.920 For those of us who who came before, you know, 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:51.440 we were just from a different time where it's a 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.920 time from far past where we just are used to 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.160 using paper and it's hard to get that. It's hard 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.640 to to break free of that, which is why if 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.440 you if you are a company and you're looking at 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.920 um switching to a paperless environment, it really means changing 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.720 more than just telling people not to print stuff. It 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:15.360 means creating new organizational workflows. It really means rethinking the 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.400 way you go about doing your daily job so that 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.680 you don't have to rely on paper at all. UM. 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:23.760 And it's more than just providing the tools. You have 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.800 to provide the training, and you have to expect that 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.240 there's gonna be a period where people have to learn 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.640 these new these new behaviors. This is not what we're 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.720 used to and UM, I think we will see that 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.160 happen over time, but it's gonna be much more gradual 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.840 than we expected because I think when people were making 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.600 the predictions, they were thinking of it from a technological standpoint, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:51.160 like when will we be technologically able to abandon paper? Well, 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.640 as it turns out that we were ready for that 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.600 far before we were psychologically ready to do it. I 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.800 could think of a number of different programs available right now, 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:07.400 um commercially and as shareware that allow you to uh, 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:11.360 you know, save different kinds of documents in them, so 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.840 you can create a system inside the program for your 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.920 Microsoft word documents and your rich text files and your 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.560 audio files and PDFs and all kinds of things, and 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.280 you can basically create a I mean, you could do 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.880 the same thing essentially with a UM you know, with 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.000 a simple organizational file in your operating system. But this 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.400 pro the programs actually sort of put them together so 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.440 that you have all the files in one place where 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.600 you can view them inside the system. And that's it 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.920 essentially achieves the same um the same idea of having 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.480 them all in a file, a physical file folder. But 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:48.720 you know, it does help people keep things organized and 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.440 help you work without having to, you know, spread all 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.280 that stuff out on your desk. However, spreading all that 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.120 stuff out on your desk can be really helpful sometimes 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.080 sometimes that that is, it's all easier to visualize the 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.400 project when you actually have those physical pieces in front 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.359 of you. Maybe something like the Microsoft Surface, you know, 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.480 where you can we could have a screen, a large 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:10.600 screen where you could you know, actually spread things out. 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.439 Think about interoperability between say a computer and a tablet device, 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.040 like if if you if Apple were to create uh 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:24.840 an interoperable interface between the iPad and say their Macintosh line, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:26.480 and they were able to make it where it was 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.080 really easy to do things like have one thing up 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.400 on your IMAX screen while you're taking notes on your iPad, 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.560 and it's all linked together so that if you ever 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.480 open it up again, you have access to all of that. 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.919 That would be brilliant. And then I would say, you know, 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:45.320 before I kind of poo pooed the iPad um and 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.000 and I think in its initial phase it's still not 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.200 really for me. But seeing that kind of stuff built 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.040 in over time, and I assume that that's going to 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.840 eventually happen, if not with the iPad one point kind 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.760 of yeah, some sort of tablet device, um, then I 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.160 would say, yeah, you know, this totally makes sense because 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.040 that's one of my problems is I like to take 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.280 a lot of notes about the research I'm doing. Well, 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.600 it's it's a lot easier if you are doing that 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:10.760 on paper than if you're doing it on a screen, 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.679 where like, if the resource material is on the screen, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.520 then you're either covering up part of the screen or 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.600 you need two screens. And most of us here at 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.439 how stuff works, we only have the one laptop. There 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.679 are some of us who have multiple screens. I am 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.280 not one of them. Uh, if I did on multiple screens, 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:27.720 then I could have my notes up on one and 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:29.040 I could have the research up on the other, it 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.120 wouldn't be an issue. But like a tablet device could 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:36.000 be helpful in that sense. Otherwise I'm using paper. Um, 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.800 so yeah, there's that. And there's a lot of reasons 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.720 why you would want to switch to a paperless office. 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:42.919 I mean, first of all, it's the green thing to do. 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.440 You're not consuming right, or at least you're not consuming paper, 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.359 you're still consuming electricity. So and there's still other issues 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.159 to take into account. But some people say that that 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:59.280 paper is greener than electronics that but I've but I've 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.760 seen I've seen some new material to from environmental groups 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.520 that say, well, you know, with certain responsibly forested trees, 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.480 with a higher recycled paper content, it can be have 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:12.359 less of an impact on the environment, which is just 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.000 hard for me to get my head around. But you 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.000 would have to sort of understand what you have to 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.280 be purchasing your paper from a very particular vendor, and 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.400 I guarantee you it's going to be more expensive than 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.919 the average REMA paper, yes, and probably more than a 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.840 company wouldn't necessarily be willing to pay. But yeah, most 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.760 companies are gonna look for the most cost effective way 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.600 of purchasing anything well could otherwise it's hard to stay 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.800 in business. But the the reasons why you want to 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.400 go to paperless besides the whole green slash clean technology, 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.520 It takes up less space, so that can save you 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:45.879 money because now you're not you know, you might not 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:47.800 need an office space as large as you would if 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:49.480 you had a lot of paper files. I mean, I've 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.600 worked in offices that had an entire room dedicated to 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:57.040 paper files that with like multiple UH sliding shelves, like 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.200 you'd have to turn a crank to move the shelf 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.159 down the rooms we could get to the next shelf, 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:03.679 and if if the information you needed was on the 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:05.480 last shelf, was going to take you a while before 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.199 you got there. Um, you wouldn't need that. With electronic 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.439 electronic filing systems, everything would be on a server or 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:17.520 two servers or a rack of servers whatever, you wouldn't. 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.040 That takes up a lot less space than an entire 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.840 room full of files and UH and like for very 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.720 big companies that could that could mean the difference between 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.520 a huge office and just a rather large office. Well, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:36.920 and and it's gonna be especially important in situations like 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:39.680 the ones we're starting to encounter now in which more 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.400 of us are working from home more of the time. 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.119 I mean, there are companies who are taking the plunge 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.480 and going completely decentralized. And if you have a lot 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:51.879 of paper, uh, you know you have to have all 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.359 the files. Well, what if somebody across town needs that? 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:57.200 Are you going to pay a career? Are you're gonna 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.000 run it over there yourself? Again, this is a higher 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.879 environmental cost um and it's really really impractical, you know, 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.720 rather than sharing the files electronically in some fashion. So, um, 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.000 you know now that that more companies are becoming comfortable 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.600 allowing their employees to work remotely carrying around a lot 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:21.480 of paper in a briefcase or backpacker a truck, it's 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:25.200 kind of it's kind of uh, really difficult to imagine 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.200