WEBVTT - Bosnia and the Path to Genocide Part 2

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<v Speaker 1>What could it could happen? Here a podcast about bad

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<v Speaker 1>things happening and how they can continue to happen if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't stop them. I'm your host, Christopher Wong, and

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<v Speaker 1>today we're doing part two of the interview with genocide

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<v Speaker 1>expert Arness Acustra, focusing on the absolutely horrifying things that

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<v Speaker 1>have been happening in Bosnia recently. Is even if you

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<v Speaker 1>hope you enjoy, can you can you give an explanation

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<v Speaker 1>of what's happened in the last couple of weeks because

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<v Speaker 1>it's terrifying and I don't think enough people are talking

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<v Speaker 1>about it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, So that's where are

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<v Speaker 1>we now? Uh, you know, I'm just going to talk

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<v Speaker 1>briefly about the date and agreement because I think, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the audience speeds to understand what the dating agreement is,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was going to talk about it earlier, but

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<v Speaker 1>I went off on the tangent, So my apologies. UM,

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<v Speaker 1>so obviously you know where the war is happening, The

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<v Speaker 1>genocide is happening, um Stravens. The worst of the genocide happens,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, eight thousand people are killed in just a

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<v Speaker 1>matter of a few weeks, few days. Really, Um, the

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<v Speaker 1>international community does not act at that time. Um, towards

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the year, another attack happens, since Saraabo

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<v Speaker 1>and Marcalis civilians are once again targeted waiting for bread fruit.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was humanitarian aid at the market, and

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<v Speaker 1>that that's kind of when the international community starts to

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<v Speaker 1>open their eyes a bit and negotiations start and not

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<v Speaker 1>to borry with the details of nogeotiation process was absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>ridiculous and every single time to discussed it, it was

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<v Speaker 1>about splitting Bosia down ethnic lines, and that's ultimately what

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<v Speaker 1>happened with the Dating Agreement. Yes, peace quote unquote peace

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<v Speaker 1>was achieved, but the Data Agreement mandated so that there

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<v Speaker 1>would be a three member presidency. So instead of having

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<v Speaker 1>one president, we would have a three member presidency. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a rotating presidency. There would be a Croat representative, a

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<v Speaker 1>Bosnia representative, and a Server representative. That also means that

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<v Speaker 1>there's no representatives for anyone who's another, whether it's the

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<v Speaker 1>identified Yugoslav, Roma, Jewish, Bosnian but not Boshnak like they

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's just there, there's no space for the

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<v Speaker 1>other in this constitution. With the State in Peace agreement,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's for another day. Um. They also split the

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<v Speaker 1>country down by ethnic lines. So all of those genocides

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<v Speaker 1>and ethnic cleansing that the Serbs had just been committing

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<v Speaker 1>all over eastern Bosnia up in the north, um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>basically the international community said, good job, here's your own

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<v Speaker 1>territory that you ethnically cleanse. UM. So they split the

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<v Speaker 1>country down, you know, these ethnic lins and uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the war stops. And then now we have to sort

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<v Speaker 1>of contend with this you know, peace agreement with the

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<v Speaker 1>new constitution. We we get this um called the OHR

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<v Speaker 1>Office of the High Representative. The High Representative is basically

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<v Speaker 1>a person who holds the highest power in the country.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not a Bosnian. They're actually kind of um, they're

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<v Speaker 1>put in place there by the international community. So the

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<v Speaker 1>o HR kind of you know, comes and breaks us

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<v Speaker 1>up when we're squabbling over issues. And this has been

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<v Speaker 1>anything from things like the flag, like the new flag

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<v Speaker 1>of Bosnia, the flag of Bosnia that was the flag

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<v Speaker 1>of Bosnia had to sort of be a place because

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<v Speaker 1>the OHR deems that it would be you know offensive

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<v Speaker 1>to the Serbs or the Croats. Um. And the same

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<v Speaker 1>thing with like the national anthem, so hold a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of power. Now just recently we switched a hitch our representatives,

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<v Speaker 1>so we have a new high representative. Before it was

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<v Speaker 1>Valentinianscope and his final kind of part of his you know,

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<v Speaker 1>time as the High Representative was to enact a law

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<v Speaker 1>against genocide denialism, which the Bosnians have really been campaigning

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<v Speaker 1>for for years because you know, um, I think in

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<v Speaker 1>your birthplace, in the place where the worst crime ever

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<v Speaker 1>could you know happen to you, happen to you, where

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<v Speaker 1>you know, fifty women were raped, a hundred thousand people

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<v Speaker 1>were killed, Um, six hundred plus mass graves were you know,

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<v Speaker 1>dug up to hide the crimes and the massacres. People

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<v Speaker 1>want to be able to you know, know the truth

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<v Speaker 1>and and and and be feel safe with the truth.

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<v Speaker 1>So the genocide denial it is, the law was good.

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<v Speaker 1>But this is kind of when things started to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>shift a bit, because I think Dotta came out Melana Dote,

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<v Speaker 1>who is currently the Serb member of the Presidency who

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<v Speaker 1>controls the Bublical Subsca, which is the entity where that's

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<v Speaker 1>considered the Serb entity, but Bosniacs also lived there as well. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>he came out and he said, well, if they passed

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<v Speaker 1>the genocide denialism law, we're going to succeed within eight days.

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<v Speaker 1>And obviously that didn't happen months ago. And here's here's

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<v Speaker 1>the thing, Um, Milanid's Doteck has been threatening succession for

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<v Speaker 1>years now. This is not anything new. What is new

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<v Speaker 1>is the fact that this time he seems to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about not just talk and threaten about succeeding, but actually

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<v Speaker 1>has started to kind of drop up the papers and

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<v Speaker 1>not a not to legally succeed, which he's not allowed

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<v Speaker 1>due to the date and agreement. Um, but he is.

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<v Speaker 1>He has run up the papers to start pulling out

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<v Speaker 1>of all the national level. So you know, Bosnia is

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<v Speaker 1>the country Republican subscribes and entity. The federation is an entity,

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<v Speaker 1>but both of them are accountable to the national sort

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<v Speaker 1>of state level institutions. He's basically at this point, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>being saying, I'm gonna republica subscribe deserve We're leaving, like

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<v Speaker 1>we're we're gonna form our own army. Yeah, we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>pull out all all the Bosnian state institutions. Um, we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna have serve only, you know, serve only courts serve only.

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<v Speaker 1>Lawyers serve only. Justices serve only I don't know, passport, whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>control serve basically anything that was at a national level,

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<v Speaker 1>whether that's like a healthcare institution or like, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>procurement for supplies for the office. They're gonna have it

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<v Speaker 1>as like serve only. Obviously, I think the danger is

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<v Speaker 1>right there. So only where have we heard that before?

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<v Speaker 1>We heard that nineties and the biggest sort of red

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<v Speaker 1>flag has really been this thing about them forming that

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<v Speaker 1>a publican Scott Army, and they're not even talking about

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<v Speaker 1>forming a new army. They he specifically stated the words

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<v Speaker 1>reforming that republic of Scott Army. Now, the Republican of

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<v Speaker 1>Scott Army, you know, was led by Kara In. These

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<v Speaker 1>are the same people that put girls as young as

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<v Speaker 1>ten and twelve years old into rape camps, that killed

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<v Speaker 1>babies as old as you know a few months, that

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<v Speaker 1>killed um, you know, elderly women as old as a

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<v Speaker 1>hundred years old. You know, these these were the guys

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<v Speaker 1>that were going village to village, city to city, killing, torturing,

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<v Speaker 1>bombing the hell out of sorry about These were the

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<v Speaker 1>guys that you know, would throw like three thousand to

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<v Speaker 1>four thousand mortar shells on Sorrymo and snip it. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't even know how many times, like tens of thousand

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<v Speaker 1>times per day. It's just these are the bad guys. Basically.

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<v Speaker 1>Um So, I think there's an alarm right now going

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<v Speaker 1>in Bosia, and it is the reason why so many

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<v Speaker 1>of us are quite worried, quite frightened, because on one hand,

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<v Speaker 1>he has threatened, he has made you know, Donic has

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<v Speaker 1>made plenty of for us before. But on the other hand,

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<v Speaker 1>in prior times, the international community has somewhat gotten involved.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the US has sanctioned him, the UK has

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<v Speaker 1>scolded him, the EU has said, like, you gotta chill

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<v Speaker 1>out otherwise you know, Sorbiet doesn't get into the EU.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there's there's always been some sort of I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know influence there, the oh Ars influence as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But in recent years, the international community has not stood

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<v Speaker 1>by its responsibility to the date agreement. I mean, here's

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<v Speaker 1>the thing. They implemented this agreement. They made it so

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<v Speaker 1>that we the Bosnians, have to abide by it, but

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<v Speaker 1>they also have a responsibility to ensure that it is

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<v Speaker 1>actually being upheld and that they're doing their jobs in

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<v Speaker 1>importance with the international like with the Date and Agreement,

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<v Speaker 1>so you know, the date and Agreement was very kind

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<v Speaker 1>of specific that it was one a temporary solution and

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<v Speaker 1>to the international community was to work on finding a

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<v Speaker 1>more permanent solution that will bring about you know, actual

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<v Speaker 1>sort of reconciliation and justice and all of these things.

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<v Speaker 1>But they didn't. They you know, they've left sort of

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<v Speaker 1>bossing it to kind of live up on its own,

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<v Speaker 1>um and and now they're not really doing much. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>the EU is the U s they're doing their typical

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<v Speaker 1>thing of strongly worded open letters UM and Dottic seems

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<v Speaker 1>less afraid than ever before. He seems very brash. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>he is a fool and a half and an ultra nationalists,

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<v Speaker 1>but right now I feel like he has so much confidence,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think he also knows that, like the US

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<v Speaker 1>and the EU have so many bigger problems to worry

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<v Speaker 1>about rather than Bosnia, and so we're just out a

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<v Speaker 1>priority so he can play around with it. And then

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<v Speaker 1>we're also you know, seeing like the Secretary of State

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<v Speaker 1>Matthew Palmer hanging out with him. The day after this,

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<v Speaker 1>man openly stated on national television that he is reforming

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<v Speaker 1>and they're being very cozy and very friendly and stuff

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<v Speaker 1>like that. And here's the thing. I've never been really

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<v Speaker 1>a big believer on the international community, because, come on,

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<v Speaker 1>like I have him, the experience speaks for itself. I've

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<v Speaker 1>already lived lived their help and I'm like, no, thanks,

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<v Speaker 1>you stay away. But I don't live in that world.

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<v Speaker 1>I live in a world where, you know, I'm from

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<v Speaker 1>a small country that is unfortunately very dependent on outsiders

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<v Speaker 1>and on the international community. So while I would love

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<v Speaker 1>to say, well, fuck the EU, fuck the US, we

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<v Speaker 1>don't need them, the reality is that we do need them.

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<v Speaker 1>We do need them to do their jobs, and because

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<v Speaker 1>if they don't, I am really worried that the situation

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<v Speaker 1>is going to continue to escalate further and further. And

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<v Speaker 1>this appeasement of Dotty, especially in the last several years,

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<v Speaker 1>has gone on so much that at this point I

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<v Speaker 1>think you have to like start to wonder, like do

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<v Speaker 1>these does the international community, you know, even want peace

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<v Speaker 1>and stability in Bosnia or did they benefit from our

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<v Speaker 1>constant instability and what is their long term plan? But

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<v Speaker 1>that's kind of where we're at right now. I think

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<v Speaker 1>there there's you know, there's the people in in Bosleian

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<v Speaker 1>politics and activist circles right now who are calling on

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<v Speaker 1>US leadership or calling on EU leadership, and there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of oh, no, the EU sucks, the US will

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<v Speaker 1>help us, the U s sucks, the EU will help us.

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<v Speaker 1>Turkey that's gonna help us. No, Turkey sucks. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of like disagreement. Um. I think the reality is that,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, does it suck that we are in

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<v Speaker 1>this position where we have to rely on external sources

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<v Speaker 1>because once again we are feeling alone. Once again, we're

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<v Speaker 1>sort of being back into a corner, and once again

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<v Speaker 1>we're being threatened with a prospect of, you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>new war. And I think the reality is the minute,

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<v Speaker 1>the minute that he gives that green light for that

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<v Speaker 1>the Republican Army to be formed, there will be violence.

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<v Speaker 1>We've seen what happened before. We cannot afford to even

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<v Speaker 1>have one act of violence. We cannot afford to have

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<v Speaker 1>even one person injured, let alone die. Because these people

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<v Speaker 1>in Bosnia, on all sides, have suffered so unbelievably much.

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<v Speaker 1>They are exhausted, they are still bearing their leved once

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<v Speaker 1>twenty six years later, they still haven't you know, found

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<v Speaker 1>that peace. They're worried and scared for their future, and

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<v Speaker 1>they deserves so much more, they really really do. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, I'm I'm hoping and praying that um.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we obviously continue talking about this issue, and

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<v Speaker 1>we try to pressure those people in power to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>calm the situation down. But the reality is that this

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be our future for as long as

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<v Speaker 1>they never exists, and until the Bosnian constitution is completely

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<v Speaker 1>reformed and dating is completely either thrown out or reformed

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<v Speaker 1>to actually allow for a you know code, actual multi

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<v Speaker 1>ethnic United country that's not broken up across ethnic you

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<v Speaker 1>know alignes, and it's not ethnically segregated, we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>continue being in the situation. So yes, for right now,

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<v Speaker 1>I think let's talk about this and let's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>pressure those powerful people, but really a long term it's

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<v Speaker 1>time to start thinking about ending the date and agreement,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's time to start thinking about actually building that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, multi ethnic, multi cultural, multi religious country that

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<v Speaker 1>we fought for. You know, you're saying like, okay, like

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<v Speaker 1>what what what is you know, what what is Europe

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<v Speaker 1>actually wants out of this and you know, I mean

0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 1>I think it's pretty clear, Like okay, so you know

0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 1>it the date and accords are like okay, we're just

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 1>gonna give all of the ether nationalists like their own fiefdom. Right,

0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 1>It's like okay, here, here's your award for the genocide.

0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 1>You get your like yeah, and I think you know,

0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 1>like that's that's that's that's that's a very classical you

0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.400
<v Speaker 1>know that that that's what Europeans do, Right. It's like, yeah,

0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 1>they come in the sport of the nationalists and it's like,

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, they don't want this, like they don't actually

0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:20.040
<v Speaker 1>want like if a functioning multi ethnic, multiracial society because

0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, oh oh the horror weight hold on, what

0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 1>if other people look at that and go, wait, why

0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 1>why do we have Like yeah, I think that I

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I think you see this both you know,

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 1>back back and what they were originally doing in the nineties,

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.000
<v Speaker 1>and you know, they come in later and they're like, oh, hey,

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:42.000
<v Speaker 1>look we're heroes, we uh helped them do the genocide

0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.120
<v Speaker 1>and then kind of sort of did something maybe later,

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.000
<v Speaker 1>and I think like, yeah, I don't know, just the

0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 1>possibility of that happening again the possibility of it's just

0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 1>being you know, this is like, oh, hey, we have Bosnia.

0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:56.800
<v Speaker 1>This this is where we do press tours for like

0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.680
<v Speaker 1>why the American Army is good and like fun anyone

0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 1>else who actually lives there. Yeah, I mean, like, come on,

0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.600
<v Speaker 1>they're America. Like, let's be honest here, Like I'm not

0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.640
<v Speaker 1>saying they're all powerful entity, but what I am saying

0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:15.480
<v Speaker 1>is that if they really wanted to, the people who

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.600
<v Speaker 1>are in power would not be in power, right, Like,

0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 1>but these people, people like Dotty, people like Dragon Chovich,

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.080
<v Speaker 1>who is the Croatian at No nationalist leader who is also,

0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.040
<v Speaker 1>by the way, directly involved in this mess. And and

0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.480
<v Speaker 1>once again we're seeing that thing of the nineties of

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, Croatia and Serbia want to split Bosnia up

0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.440
<v Speaker 1>and you know, break it for themselves. Basically, Um, that's

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's it's just now instead of Ryan Tujman

0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:47.080
<v Speaker 1>and Looshevich, it's now Chovich and uh, you know Dotty.

0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 1>I talk about Dottic a lot more because I think

0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.120
<v Speaker 1>he's a more immediate threat, but it's important that we

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.480
<v Speaker 1>don't forget that Bosnia is also facing the Croatian threat

0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:59.000
<v Speaker 1>as well. Um and you know. But but I think

0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.560
<v Speaker 1>about it this way. I know for a fact that

0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.359
<v Speaker 1>if these people did not benefit the system somehow, they

0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.040
<v Speaker 1>would not actually be in power. But they do. They

0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.280
<v Speaker 1>do benefit them and I think you know, you know,

0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 1>Madain Albright called mil Dot a breath of fresh air

0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.399
<v Speaker 1>um in you know, the nineties when he came to

0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 1>power and then and now here we are, you know,

0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.760
<v Speaker 1>um Dots threatening war and threatening succession and talking about

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:33.639
<v Speaker 1>serve only you know, spaces and serve only armies and

0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:38.600
<v Speaker 1>it's just it's exhaust thing. But yeah, it's it's it's

0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.159
<v Speaker 1>also funny. It is funny when you think about it,

0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:46.760
<v Speaker 1>because the reality is that it doesn't it never had

0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.000
<v Speaker 1>to be like this, and it doesn't have to feel

0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:53.400
<v Speaker 1>like this in the future either. But unfortunately, it will

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 1>continue to be like this because that's just you know,

0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.359
<v Speaker 1>what the powerful want, like what those actually have some

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 1>power want. And that's the thing that sucks because when

0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 1>you you know, I feel like I'm starting to sound conspirator,

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.159
<v Speaker 1>but I'm not. Um. You know, when you when you

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:13.879
<v Speaker 1>think about like Europe overall and how they looked at Bosnia,

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.240
<v Speaker 1>I think for the last you know, hundred years, um

0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:22.119
<v Speaker 1>and their policy towards Bosnia. It's really difficult for me

0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.360
<v Speaker 1>to kind of be filled with any sort of confidence

0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 1>about what their plans are, you know. Yeah, I mean

0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.160
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's Europe in the United States, two countries

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.520
<v Speaker 1>that historically have never done anything bad, have never done

0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:44.160
<v Speaker 1>any genocides and have never yeah, just absolutely annihilated countries. Yeah, yeah,

0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.199
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's just, you know, they're the good guys. So,

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.720
<v Speaker 1>like you said, you know, Bosnians, there are so much

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.399
<v Speaker 1>as like this press store for you know, these politicians

0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.200
<v Speaker 1>to come and talk about why we're such a great

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.200
<v Speaker 1>example of the peace process when we're really we're not,

0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, And the thing is so you know, they'll

0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.400
<v Speaker 1>come on and they'll say, well, while Dayton wasn't perfect,

0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:05.800
<v Speaker 1>it was the best solution at the time. And it's

0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:10.600
<v Speaker 1>like it was, it was not, you know, but but

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.280
<v Speaker 1>they have convinced that themselves that this was like a

0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.320
<v Speaker 1>win for intervention and win for the international community. Now,

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:22.840
<v Speaker 1>don't get me wrong, I alongside everyone I know, is

0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:27.640
<v Speaker 1>extremely happy that the war ended and that the genocide ended.

0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Um And I think until you're in that position of

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.880
<v Speaker 1>growing up in the midst of you know, all these

0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.000
<v Speaker 1>bombs and murders and tortures all around you, and you know,

0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.080
<v Speaker 1>the only style do you ever hear are the sounds

0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.560
<v Speaker 1>of bombs and mortars falling and sniper shooting at you.

0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.840
<v Speaker 1>You won't really know how it feels when that finally

0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.800
<v Speaker 1>stops and when you have some peace, and how difficult

0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.520
<v Speaker 1>um it can be to think about obviously any future

0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.720
<v Speaker 1>sort of prospects of war UM. And I think that's

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 1>that also is a is a contributing factor to the

0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:08.080
<v Speaker 1>overall instability of Closingia because for twenty six years now,

0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.600
<v Speaker 1>our policy as a people but as a country as well,

0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:17.119
<v Speaker 1>has been as long as there's no shooting, which is

0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.960
<v Speaker 1>not a sound policy because you know, settling for the

0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.800
<v Speaker 1>bare minimum is not helping any of us. Our youths

0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:29.560
<v Speaker 1>are leaving in observed absurd amounts to Germany, to Austria,

0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.640
<v Speaker 1>to the United States, people are struggling for for jobs,

0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.560
<v Speaker 1>people are struggling to bind food. You know, all of

0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 1>these things um, on top of the threat of war

0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.119
<v Speaker 1>and violence and conflicts. So it's just it's not a

0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:48.639
<v Speaker 1>sound policy. And I'm just hoping, um, it will change

0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.600
<v Speaker 1>eventually somehow. I mean, I'm going to keep doing my part,

0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.280
<v Speaker 1>which is, you know, yelling and yelling at people in

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.200
<v Speaker 1>in there on Twitter and in person and pressuring them

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.600
<v Speaker 1>to do the right thing and to obviously talk about this.

0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.880
<v Speaker 1>But um, yeah, I just feel like we have such

0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:10.200
<v Speaker 1>a long, long, long, long road ahead of us. And um,

0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, peace is a process. It's a process. So

0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:19.359
<v Speaker 1>I think where just at the beginning of that process. Yeah,

0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:32.680
<v Speaker 1>so much more to do, I think. I think that's

0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:40.120
<v Speaker 1>a good place to end on the realization that Yeah,

0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:43.199
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if if if there's no fundamental change in

0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:46.399
<v Speaker 1>the structures and in the forces and in the politics

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 1>that created a war, that created genocide, like it's going

0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.719
<v Speaker 1>to happen again. Yeah, and so you you you have

0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:55.080
<v Speaker 1>to actually change it. You can't just sort of put

0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:57.000
<v Speaker 1>this band aid on it and put it in stasis

0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:58.920
<v Speaker 1>and just leave all the structures intact. You have to

0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:01.600
<v Speaker 1>now you you have to knock them over before you

0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:06.600
<v Speaker 1>can build something else. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah, nessa think, thank

0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.320
<v Speaker 1>you so much for talking with me. Um, where can

0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.480
<v Speaker 1>people find you? And what books do you want to read?

0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.040
<v Speaker 1>Because as as as we've said over and over again

0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.960
<v Speaker 1>on this podcast, do not get your information from podcast,

0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:21.200
<v Speaker 1>actually read books to think you need what you need

0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.600
<v Speaker 1>to do. UM, yeah, well if you obviously, I know

0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.040
<v Speaker 1>our audience can't see yet. But here's my little one

0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:32.640
<v Speaker 1>of my little selections of books on Bosnia. UM. Obviously,

0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.720
<v Speaker 1>people can find me on Twitter, um, you know, type

0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:38.359
<v Speaker 1>in my name A R N E s A. But

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:43.280
<v Speaker 1>my at is at our ore R R E s

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.480
<v Speaker 1>s A. Yeah. Twitter is probably the best place. But

0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:49.160
<v Speaker 1>also I have a book out so if people want

0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:52.159
<v Speaker 1>to read it. It is about the Bosnian genocide UM,

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.199
<v Speaker 1>and it is based on real life experiences of my

0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:59.360
<v Speaker 1>family and friends. It's called Letters from Diaspora. It's more

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:05.040
<v Speaker 1>so the emotional UM side of things. But if you

0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:09.520
<v Speaker 1>want to learn about the conflict from a leftist perspective,

0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:13.720
<v Speaker 1>I always recommend UM. And I don't know where it's

0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:18.840
<v Speaker 1>going out, but I always recommend UM Bosnia, Kosova and

0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:27.359
<v Speaker 1>Yugoslavia by Mike Kardadigis UM. It's the Marxist perspective on

0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:34.000
<v Speaker 1>the breakup of Yugoslavia. UM. Additionally, I have a pdf

0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.800
<v Speaker 1>on my Twitter of tons of books. So if you

0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:42.360
<v Speaker 1>want to learn more about Yugoslavia, about Islam and the Balkans,

0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.960
<v Speaker 1>about the history of Bosnia, about the war Jetta side.

0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Feel free to shoot me a d M. I have

0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:52.880
<v Speaker 1>a handy little guide that I hand out constantly. Two people. Um,

0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:54.840
<v Speaker 1>and there's also a list of books on like my

0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:57.080
<v Speaker 1>website and stuff like that. Yeah, I think I can

0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:58.440
<v Speaker 1>post it. We can put a link to it in

0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:00.840
<v Speaker 1>the description. I've I've read some stuff there. It's very good.

0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:06.679
<v Speaker 1>You should read it. Thanks. I pry myself on really

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:13.320
<v Speaker 1>good reading list depending on topic. Oh yeah, yeah, well Vanessa,

0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 1>thank you again. And yeah, this this has when it

0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 1>could happen here? Find us that it could happen here

0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:22.600
<v Speaker 1>pod on Twitter, Instagram. The rest of the show is

0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:24.760
<v Speaker 1>that we do are You can find it at the

0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:29.000
<v Speaker 1>cool Zone on the same places and yeah, oh boy

0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:33.040
<v Speaker 1>genocide bad hope there's no more work to stop them.

0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:41.040
<v Speaker 1>It could happen here is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:43.920
<v Speaker 1>Well more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website

0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:46.080
<v Speaker 1>cool zone media dot com, or check us out on

0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:48.639
<v Speaker 1>the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:51.480
<v Speaker 1>listen to podcasts. You can find sources for it could

0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Happen here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com,

0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:56.480
<v Speaker 1>slash sources. Thanks for listening,