WEBVTT - Healing in Uvalde 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:04.440 Ola Latino USA listener. You know, we've been spending a 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.720 bit of time remembering and thinking about the one year 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:12.280 anniversary of the massacre in Uvalde, Texas, and we want 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.240 to share with you an episode of our sister podcast, 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.320 which is called In the Thick. My co host Julio 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.040 Ricardorella and I are joined on this episode of In 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.640 the Thick by an award winning filmmaker. His name is 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:28.000 Keith Beauchamp. He actually immortalized the work of Maimie Till 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.760 Mobley in his film that he produced and co wrote. 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:35.440 It's called Till. And we're also joined on this episode 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.960 of In the Thick by Monica Mugnos Martinez, who's a historian. 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.720 She's an associate professor at the University of Texas at Austin. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.200 She's also a MacArthur Award winning genius for her work 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.000 as a historian. And in this episode, we're going to 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.199 talk about how mothers past and present play a central 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:55.440 role in the activism that brings change in our country 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.600 and in our world. So I'm really glad that you're 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.280 going to listen to this. It's very thoughtful and it's 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.319 part of our continuing coverage of the one year anniversary 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:13.280 of Uvalde Guess Yes from Futuro Media and PRX. It's 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.440 in the Thick, a podcast about politics, race and culture. 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.520 I'm Marieojsa and I'm Jude Dirigrloarella. 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:26.000 And today marks the one year anniversary of the massacre 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:27.360 in Uvalde, Texas. 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.920 Rob Elementary and Uvalde, where just under six hundred second 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.360 through fourth graders were in school, is about an hour 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.120 and a half just outside of San Antonio. It's a 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.560 smaller community there of a little more than twenty four 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:43.959 thousand people. A shooting at rob Elementary School in Uvalde 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:48.080 officially left nineteen children and two adults dead. 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:52.080 And so a year later, Julio, you know, we're still processing. 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:57.120 I know, yes, there have been many mass shootings and 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:02.560 school shootings since then. That's a lot, right, it's a 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.160 lot to deal with. So let me ask you first, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.600 how you doing, Like, what's your temperature check? On this 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.000 one year anniversary of the massacre at Valde. 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.280 I'm at this point as a journalist, as a commentator, 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.680 as someone who writes opinions on the side, right that 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:28.480 it's very important to recognize what happened a year ago 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:36.040 and not to forget it. But I also fear that 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.840 in this day and age, these anniversaries become like media 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:46.200 checklist items for news organizations and everyone. You know, there's 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.520 a big like, oh, let's talk about the one year anniversary, 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.079 and then everything goes away. And so in hindsight, well, 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.560 I love the decision that you made with your team 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.800 to say we're not doing that and we're here forever. 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.720 I think about families a lot today, about the kids, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.639 your thoughts. I know you've gone through a lot about 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:06.399 your temp check. 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:10.079 Right now on the anniversary, it's a really tough day, 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:15.240 and I really wish I was in Uvalde, to just 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:19.359 be hanging out in the softball field, playing with the kids, 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.320 eating Mexican food, going to the bird sanctuary. 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.040 But I'm far away. I'm here in New York. 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.919 I'm in touch with the families, well, in particular, i'm 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.800 in touch with the Gonzali's family that I've become close to. 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.360 How am I doing. I'm hopeful for Uvalde. 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.040 I'm horrified that they had to live through this, but 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.760 there's a part of me that still has hope. But 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.800 it's hard. I'm really sad. I'm really sad to meet sadness. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:48.640 You also have to find joy. So I'm really busy 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.040 also trying to find something joyful to think about it. 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.640 And when I think about joy, I think about Caitlin Gonzalius, 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.880 who survived the massacre and who is just we have 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.160 a lot of fun, like when I jumped on the 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.400 zip line with her in the backyard. And in fact, 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.880 that's how the Latino USA piece called Uvalde Rising, that's 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:15.320 how it actually starts with laughter. You're ready, Oh my god, 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:16.080 this is so fun. 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:17.520 Oh my god, this is so fun. Now what do 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:17.719 I do? 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:17.880 Now? 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:18.360 What do I do? 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.400 And so over the past year, I've been spending on 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:30.640 everybody who follows me. Knew I was in Texas, they 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:32.719 knew I was in South Texas. They didn't know that 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.360 I was in Uvalde. It's a new documentary that is 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.159 co produced by Futuro Investigates, Frontline on PBS and the 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.799 Texas Tribune. It's called After Uvalde, Guns, Grief and Texas Politics. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.919 At premiers on Tuesday, May thirtieth, you can watch it 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.919 on PBS and across streaming platforms. I really do hope 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.279 you will watch. We're gonna lift a clip. This is 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.880 one of the more dramatic moments, and there are a 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.039 few from the front line. This is my interview with 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:08.040 doctor Roy Guerrero, who is basically the only pediatrician in 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:09.080 the city of Uvalde. 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:10.520 Let's go to the tape. 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.360 So they took me back there, and that's truly when 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.440 I realize the caliber of what these weapons can do 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:24.200 to a child's body. So imagine a child who's decapitated. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:25.200 What else do I have. 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:25.600 To tell you? 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.479 Huge chest wounds where it seems like, you know, someone 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:35.480 bore a hand through the full chest. The only consoleance 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.719 I have to myself is maybe it was so fast 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:43.159 that they didn't have time to suffer, that they went quickly. 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:45.960 Maybe not peacefully, but quickly. 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.080 I mean, you're reduced to saying that to. 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.040 Parents, what else can I do? 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.080 Because I couldn't have done anything for them that. 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.000 Day, So, Julio. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.720 The reporting side of this, right is that the families 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:06.720 actually have been demanding to get access to the footage 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.719 that has been recorded, because there are hours, over one 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:14.760 hundred hours of tape from security cameras, from body cameras 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.800 that document everything that happened. As you know, I saw 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:25.160 some of that, but the families of Uvalde, the families Yeah, 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.800 the ones who should be able to see what they 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:33.520 want when it involves their children, they have been denied 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.279 access to all of this. That's just one of the 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.600 as I would say, falta respetos. You know, the jobs 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.839 at the families in Uvalde, and it has been a 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:44.600 labor of love. 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:44.920 It has. 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.080 It's really been extraordinary and has changed my life. But 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.680 mostly I'm just thinking about the friends that I now 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:52.560 have in Uvalde. 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.960 Right on a day like today, because you know, first 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.960 of all, doctor Gifrido's clip, when I saw it as 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:06.359 a parent, as a human being, as being the only 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:11.560 pediatrician in Ualde, I just can't even begin to think 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.160 of that day and can't even begin to think of 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:19.880 what's happening today in Oualde. Really in a way, grateful 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:23.440 to you as a journalist for doing it with part 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:25.360 and I'm just deeply proud. 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.920 And I appreciate that Julia and we did absolutely, I mean, 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.840 we move as a team with heart, being very conscious 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.160 of the traumatic space that we were in Uvalde, making 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.360 up a commitment to spend quite a bit of time there. 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:42.040 But you know, this is a frontline documentary, and frontline 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.280 at its core is investigative work. 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:45.360 And so. 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.320 The investigative part, I think is really revealing, and it's 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.160 not a good look for the state of Texas or 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.520 for the governor. Now, you know people in the state 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.080 of Texas are reporting. Is showing, right, is that they 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:03.920 are beginning, even people who are Republicans, right, are beginning 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.760 to need to have some more answers rather than just 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.800 you know, it's mental health, mental health, mental health. So 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.800 the conversation about the fact that the Uvalde families, not 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.200 all of them, but some of them have been pushing 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:23.000 as activists to get the state to raise the age 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:27.520 of purchase for an assault weapon from eighteen to twenty one. Right, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.560 the shooter was eighteen days after he turned eighteen. That's 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:32.880 when he bought the gun, That's when he got the bullets. 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:38.160 That's then this horrible thing happened. The activism of the families, 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.160 and there's a long history of activism in nuvaldeve As. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.240 We've talked about that, the student walk out, et cetera 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.360 in the nineteen seventies. This is one of the investigative stories, 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.319 right that we're pursuing, which is watching how the families 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.440 in fact have been able to affect the politics of 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:58.960 Texas and the investigative side, which is the fact that 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.160 even though Texas has the second highest rate of mass 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:09.120 shootings in our country, that since the first shooting that 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:13.319 was tracked by the Texas Tribune in their investigation in 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.560 the nineteen sixties up until now, there has been no 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.440 legislation ever even brought to the floor in the state 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.440 of Texas to address this. And it's because there's this 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.440 whole culture of the gun in Texas. But I think 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:30.439 that there's Uvalde is definitely part of a tipping point. 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.600 Are they there yet? No, But again it's because of 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.640 the families in Uvalde and their activism that anything has changed. 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.240 You know, you said to me, I remember, and you 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.480 told me straight up, I'm a different journalist after Uvalde. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:47.280 I'm a different person after Uvalde. And I noticed it, 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:49.960 and I can say I can speak this with authority 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.559 because I've known you now for eight and a half 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.600 years and you told me that straight up, and I 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:58.480 saw a difference in you, and it's a good difference. 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.360 I think I see you on this path of like 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:07.280 this will be a place for me forever, Like I 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.400 will not forget this community, and it lends itself to 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.160 the long term issue of PTSD which you suffered from after. 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:15.520 Nine to eleven and talk about a lot. 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.680 Yeah, you talk about the PTSD within the Valde community, 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:24.760 especially for the survivors of the shooting. So this notion 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:29.840 of the deep impacts of PTSD and mental health in 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.280 the Valde community is definitely one of the parts of 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:37.040 the story that you reported on in the Frontline documentary 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:41.719 and the Latino USA Audio companion reporting. So let's take 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:43.559 a listen to a clip from all your reporting. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:52.600 These kids are it's just they're walking PTSD just like 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:58.160 a veteran and it you know veterans, you know they 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:03.360 have to fight for getting mental health access and we're 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.800 being put in the same situation, except the only difference is, 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.680 you know, they signed up for my children. My child 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:11.000 did not. 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.160 So, Madia, we can talk about the facts and the 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.079 figures and the charts and the graphs and the calls 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:24.079 for gun legislation in this country, but the longer term 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:28.760 health effects of Uvalde are much harder to measure. What 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.319 can you tell us from your reporting to paint a 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.040 picture of why it's so hard to measure? 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.200 So, as everyone who listens to our fabulous show, you 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.200 all know that I developed PTSD after covering September eleventh 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.160 for CNN and being a mom to young children at 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.720 the time, and so what was weird for me? What 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.360 was hard, What was the challenge was finding myself as 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.960 far away as possible from New York in Uvalde, Texas 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.640 and identifying with the trauma that I was seeing everywhere 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:06.360 in Uvalde. I mean everywhere everyone that you met is 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:11.400 dealing with this. There's just no other way. So you 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:16.880 have an entire town that needs to actually do public healing, 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:23.360 like massive auditorium style meditation. And I'm just coming up 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:25.400 with this off the top of my head. I no, no, 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.679 like musical healing, like open the public park and like 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.360 this is a place that needs that like on a 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.400 weekly basis. Wow, Right, if Uvalde is a mental health 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.319 desert because you have one psychiatrist, right, and now there 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.319 is more attention being placed. But that was basically all 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.480 you had, So now you have this much more need. 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:50.880 The reporting that we did is that the people of 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.880 Uvalde feel neglected, have felt that way for decades actually 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.640 by the state, and then this kind of like you 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.600 don't matter, You're just not that important, and sadly, oh 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.720 ya Mejulia, this was hard to hear, and I heard 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.120 it the day I got to Uvalde the first time 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.600 in January, which was the families have been told, you know, 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.760 they should get over it, and it's like, you're kidding 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.000 me that anyone would say this to any family in Nuvalde. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.520 So the trauma is going to be there for a 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:21.160 long time. 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.520 And my hope is that it becomes not a mental 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.560 health desert but becomes a mental health garden, and that 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.719 people who have capacity to offer mental health services go 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:33.079 to Uvalde and help. 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.080 This is a town that needs help. 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.240 Of course, the other side of the story is that 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.400 the people of Uvalde are people who understand activism and 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.880 they are demanding things, that's for sure. 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.640 Hey, before we go, there's a particular animal that's popular 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.880 in Uvalde. What is the animal? And why did you 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.160 ask me to ask you that question? Because now I'm 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.560 infinitely curious about this connection. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.560 So the reason why I asked you to ask me 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.200 this question and is because I think people think of 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.040 Uvalde now and they just think, oh my god, horror, terrible, 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.320 you know, sadness morning. Yes, I want people to understand 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.559 that there is a lot of beauty and joy and 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.880 happiness in Uvalde, and I also experience that and that 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.320 my life has been changed by getting to know Caitlin Gonzalez, 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.119 her mom, Gladys, her dad Nef, her little sister Camilla. 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.400 She's a survivor and she's an activist now. And so 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.080 we laughed a lot. There's a lot of laughter that 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:35.560 I experienced in Uvalde. And so there's actually an Instagram 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:42.760 for the chickens of Uvalde. Yes, the chickens, because the chickens. 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.560 I'm loving that. I'm laughing while I'm talking about Valde 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:51.320 because lose guys Ubalde are so famous. They have an 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.280 Instagram page because you never know where they're going to 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.680 show up, and they kind of pop out in the 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:56.400 middle of the road. 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.040 I following now, I'm following it. 0:14:58.120 --> 0:14:59.960 We wanted this to be part of the front line, 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:01.920 you know. I think they were like, yeah, no, I 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:02.960 don't think we can go. 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.960 Coming up on frontline Los Poo. 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.560 So I just want people to understand that. Also, Walde 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:17.120 now is a place of extraordinary art. The murals that 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.520 they made for the kids and the two teachers son 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.080 impression Nantees, and it is the place where I got 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.080 the coldest beer I've ever had in the United States 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:29.840 of America in Uwalde, Texas. So let's also bring joy 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.640 those of you who can, you know, send what you 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.520 can to the people of Uvalde that brings joy and 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.440 happiness because they need it and they're also, like all 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.000 of us, after trauma, trying to put it together by 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.960 putting one foot in front of the other. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.040 So, dear listener, after. 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.920 The break, we're going to continue our conversation about Uvalde, 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.040 and actually we're going to bring in Keith Beauchamp. He's 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.880 a filmmaker who made the movie Till, and Monica Munhos Martinez, 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.480 who is a historian from Muvalde. We're going to talk 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.280 about the role of moms in all of this and 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:22.680 decisions that moms make in a tragic moment. So Nottevayes Hey, 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.640 welcome back to in the Thick. I'm Maria no Josa. 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.320 Let's turn to our roundtable. Now joining us for this 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.440 discussion from the liberated Territory or something like that of Brooklyn, 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.720 New York is Keith Beauchamp. He's an award winning filmmaker 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:41.280 and producer on the film Till. Keith, it's great to 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.840 have you on the show. Welcome from Brooklyn. I'm in Harlem. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:44.680 All in the house. 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:47.400 Thank you for having me. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:48.720 And joining us. 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:53.880 From Austin, Texas. Is Monica Muno's Martinez. She's somebody who 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.720 I see as a guiding light in the story of 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.960 Uvalde and understanding it. She's a historian and associate professor 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:04.119 the University of Texas at Austin, a MacArthur Genius Award fellow. 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.640 Welcome to the show, Monica. It's great to be talking 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:08.160 to you again. 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:09.399 It's great to be with you. 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:15.720 So Monica knows this because I actually was inspired because 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.040 of the work that Monica has done as a historian 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:23.880 on Uvalde and on violence in Texas against Mexicans and Latinos. 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.560 So basically, for the greater part of this year and 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.080 a little bit of last, I have been reporting on 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.120 Uvalde and the aftermath. And that means that I've been 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.840 on a lot of planes, too many hotels and a 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:44.320 lot of planes. And I was traveling to Austin actually 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:50.400 to cover a hearing recently on gun legislation, and I 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:54.560 was looking for the movies on the plane and Till 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.360 was there. Till Is the movie directed by Chinoya Chiku 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.960 produced and co written by U Keith. It tells the 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.240 story of maybe Till Mobley's fight for justice for her son, 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.760 fourteen year old Emmett Till. Remember, of course, he was 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.120 lynched in nineteen fifty five. And you know, I think 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.160 a lot of people think, oh, my god, Till, it's 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.840 gonna be it's gonna be a horrible movie. In fact, 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:23.280 it's such a beautiful film, so beautifully directed and acted 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:29.879 and everything, the cinematography, the music, the production just beautiful, 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:34.600 even though it's a film about something really horrible. And 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:41.119 so I want to know, actually, Keith, you, being close 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.720 to mother Mobley, what do you keep in mind as 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:48.760 you continue to document Emmett Till's legacy even after she's gone. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:54.000 And you know, again, it was nineteen fifty five when 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:59.000 Mother Mobley made this decision to have an open casket. 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.320 It changed his But I'm wondering, what are the things 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:03.640 that you hold close, Keith. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.679 Well, what I hold close is a lot of the 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.439 things that she instilled in me before she passed away. 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:16.919 She understood the importance of telling Emmitt's story time and 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.880 time again. I've said often when I've done interviews over 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.080 the years, there's no other story that speaks more to 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.800 this generation political and racial climate than the story of 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.399 Emmit Lewis Till then I think about many of the 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:33.800 things that she used to say to me. White thing 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.639 comes to mind often. She used to say to me 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.120 all the time, Keith, you must continuously tell Emmitt's story 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:45.040 until man's consciousness is risen, because only then that would 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.040 mean justice for him. At till and for the longest time, 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.760 I didn't quite understand what she was trying to instill 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.200 in me. I was young. Here's this iconic civil rights 0:19:54.560 --> 0:20:00.440 icon who's actually talking to me, Little Keith Bowshop from 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:01.720 Baton Rouge, Louisiana. 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:03.880 And I didn't really. 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.480 Understand what she was trying to tell me until I'm 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:11.520 matured in understanding the story of Immatetill a lot more, 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.960 and of course how the civil rights movement had come along, 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:18.960 and so what she was trying to say to me 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.960 that I realized now more than ever. She was trying 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:27.280 to say that no matter how long I fight, no 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.720 matter how hard I fight to get justice for her son, 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.960 it's not going to stop all the immitate tills of 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:39.240 the world from hand. And of course, in recent years 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.359 and decades, we see that happening time and time again, 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:48.199 and so I truly believe that Mother Mobley had the 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:52.480 blueprint to men's liberation when it comes to racial progression 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.320 in this country, and of course when we're fighting against 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:00.560 social injustice. And so it's still the story of Mattil 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.639 and which is why I continue to tell the story. 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.280 That is important that we understand what transpired in nineteen 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:12.280 fifty five, because I firmly believe if we forget our past, 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:17.440 history will repeat itself. And that's what we're saying happening today. 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.160 Thank you so much for that, Keith. And what part 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:24.000 did you say? Where are you from? Exactly in Louisiana. 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:26.240 Baton Rouge, Baton Rouge. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:32.119 All right, Baton Rouge is representing just saying we love Louisiana. So, Monica, 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:36.440 you actually grew up in Uvalde, Texas. You joined us 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.800 just a few days after the massacre happened in Uvalde. 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.320 You are now based in Austin, Texas. 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:47.119 And your research that you spoke to us about this 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.840 on Latino USA goes deep into law enforcement violence against 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.760 Latinos and Latinas in Texas and along the border. But 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.080 you've also researched racial violence in the civil rights era 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:02.760 as well. And these examples from Emmett Till's murder to 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.720 the deadliest school shooting in Texas and Wilde are basically 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.320 showing us that policing and law enforcement don't always take 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.040 the responsibility in the fight for justice, obviously, and that 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:15.840 it sadly it falls on the mothers to prove their 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:19.920 pain and basically have to kind of use their pain 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.760 and their range to inspire change. And one of these 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:27.720 this is why I'm fascinated by Valde, and we'll talk 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.800 about that in a second. But in another part of Texas, 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:35.439 there's a mom named Ronda Hart. She's the mother of 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:41.320 Kimberly Vaughn. Her fourteen year old daughter died in May 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:44.280 of twenty eighteen in the Santa Fe, Texas High school shooting, 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:49.320 which was the first school shooting in Texas, and Ronda 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:53.320 has now become an activist pushing for tighter gun laws 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:57.840 in Texas. And she's interestingly not a surprise, right she's 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:01.120 been blocked from viewing her daughter's autopsy report. She's pushing 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.360 to get it. Not everybody wants these things, but some 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:06.879 people do, and you have to fight for it. So 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:11.359 this is what she told our producer Futuro investigates producer 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:13.760 Sofia Sanchez about this situation. 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:15.560 Let's take a listen, Let's go to the tape. 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.520 That's the whole thing I've been lobbying for this session 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:20.439 is to get my autopsy report. 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:22.680 After five years, I still don't have that. 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:27.040 Our district attorney in Galison County won't give it to us. 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:29.800 It's his discretion, but he chooses not to. 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:36.680 So Monica, there is historical context. Again, we're talking about 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:39.080 what happened to emmat Till in nineteen fifty five. We're 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:42.560 talking about what happened in Uvalde in twenty twenty two. 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:46.040 We're talking about what happened five years ago in Santa Fe, 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:49.399 Texas in the high school. Can you give us some 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:53.000 historical context though, about how it is that mothers and 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:54.520 I know that this is part of the work that 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:58.640 you've done in documenting other massacres. It's actually mothers and children, 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:03.080 mothers of the victim and children's survivors. They end up 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:08.679 having to kind of fight for access to the story, 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.880 to the truth, to the facts. But there is historical 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:14.439