1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: Ola Latino USA listener. You know, we've been spending a 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: bit of time remembering and thinking about the one year 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: anniversary of the massacre in Uvalde, Texas, and we want 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: to share with you an episode of our sister podcast, 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: which is called In the Thick. My co host Julio 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: Ricardorella and I are joined on this episode of In 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: the Thick by an award winning filmmaker. His name is 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: Keith Beauchamp. He actually immortalized the work of Maimie Till 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: Mobley in his film that he produced and co wrote. 10 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: It's called Till. And we're also joined on this episode 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: of In the Thick by Monica Mugnos Martinez, who's a historian. 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: She's an associate professor at the University of Texas at Austin. 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: She's also a MacArthur Award winning genius for her work 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: as a historian. And in this episode, we're going to 15 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: talk about how mothers past and present play a central 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: role in the activism that brings change in our country 17 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: and in our world. So I'm really glad that you're 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: going to listen to this. It's very thoughtful and it's 19 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: part of our continuing coverage of the one year anniversary 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: of Uvalde Guess Yes from Futuro Media and PRX. It's 21 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: in the Thick, a podcast about politics, race and culture. 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: I'm Marieojsa and I'm Jude Dirigrloarella. 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: And today marks the one year anniversary of the massacre 24 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: in Uvalde, Texas. 25 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 3: Rob Elementary and Uvalde, where just under six hundred second 26 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: through fourth graders were in school, is about an hour 27 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 3: and a half just outside of San Antonio. It's a 28 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 3: smaller community there of a little more than twenty four 29 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 3: thousand people. A shooting at rob Elementary School in Uvalde 30 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 3: officially left nineteen children and two adults dead. 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: And so a year later, Julio, you know, we're still processing. 32 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: I know, yes, there have been many mass shootings and 33 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: school shootings since then. That's a lot, right, it's a 34 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: lot to deal with. So let me ask you first, 35 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: how you doing, Like, what's your temperature check? On this 36 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: one year anniversary of the massacre at Valde. 37 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 4: I'm at this point as a journalist, as a commentator, 38 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 4: as someone who writes opinions on the side, right that 39 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 4: it's very important to recognize what happened a year ago 40 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 4: and not to forget it. But I also fear that 41 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 4: in this day and age, these anniversaries become like media 42 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 4: checklist items for news organizations and everyone. You know, there's 43 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 4: a big like, oh, let's talk about the one year anniversary, 44 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 4: and then everything goes away. And so in hindsight, well, 45 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 4: I love the decision that you made with your team 46 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 4: to say we're not doing that and we're here forever. 47 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 4: I think about families a lot today, about the kids, 48 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 4: your thoughts. I know you've gone through a lot about 49 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 4: your temp check. 50 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: Right now on the anniversary, it's a really tough day, 51 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: and I really wish I was in Uvalde, to just 52 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: be hanging out in the softball field, playing with the kids, 53 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: eating Mexican food, going to the bird sanctuary. 54 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: But I'm far away. I'm here in New York. 55 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: I'm in touch with the families, well, in particular, i'm 56 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: in touch with the Gonzali's family that I've become close to. 57 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: How am I doing. I'm hopeful for Uvalde. 58 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm horrified that they had to live through this, but 59 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: there's a part of me that still has hope. But 60 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: it's hard. I'm really sad. I'm really sad to meet sadness. 61 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: You also have to find joy. So I'm really busy 62 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: also trying to find something joyful to think about it. 63 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: And when I think about joy, I think about Caitlin Gonzalius, 64 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: who survived the massacre and who is just we have 65 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: a lot of fun, like when I jumped on the 66 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: zip line with her in the backyard. And in fact, 67 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: that's how the Latino USA piece called Uvalde Rising, that's 68 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: how it actually starts with laughter. You're ready, Oh my god, 69 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: this is so fun. 70 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: Oh my god, this is so fun. Now what do 71 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 2: I do? 72 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 5: Now? 73 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: What do I do? 74 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: And so over the past year, I've been spending on 75 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: everybody who follows me. Knew I was in Texas, they 76 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: knew I was in South Texas. They didn't know that 77 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: I was in Uvalde. It's a new documentary that is 78 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: co produced by Futuro Investigates, Frontline on PBS and the 79 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 1: Texas Tribune. It's called After Uvalde, Guns, Grief and Texas Politics. 80 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: At premiers on Tuesday, May thirtieth, you can watch it 81 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: on PBS and across streaming platforms. I really do hope 82 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: you will watch. We're gonna lift a clip. This is 83 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: one of the more dramatic moments, and there are a 84 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: few from the front line. This is my interview with 85 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: doctor Roy Guerrero, who is basically the only pediatrician in 86 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: the city of Uvalde. 87 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: Let's go to the tape. 88 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 6: So they took me back there, and that's truly when 89 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 6: I realize the caliber of what these weapons can do 90 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 6: to a child's body. So imagine a child who's decapitated. 91 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: What else do I have. 92 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 7: To tell you? 93 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 6: Huge chest wounds where it seems like, you know, someone 94 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 6: bore a hand through the full chest. The only consoleance 95 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 6: I have to myself is maybe it was so fast 96 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 6: that they didn't have time to suffer, that they went quickly. 97 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 6: Maybe not peacefully, but quickly. 98 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: I mean, you're reduced to saying that to. 99 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 6: Parents, what else can I do? 100 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 4: Because I couldn't have done anything for them that. 101 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: Day, So, Julio. 102 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: The reporting side of this, right is that the families 103 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: actually have been demanding to get access to the footage 104 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: that has been recorded, because there are hours, over one 105 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: hundred hours of tape from security cameras, from body cameras 106 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: that document everything that happened. As you know, I saw 107 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: some of that, but the families of Uvalde, the families Yeah, 108 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: the ones who should be able to see what they 109 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: want when it involves their children, they have been denied 110 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: access to all of this. That's just one of the 111 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: as I would say, falta respetos. You know, the jobs 112 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: at the families in Uvalde, and it has been a 113 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: labor of love. 114 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: It has. 115 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: It's really been extraordinary and has changed my life. But 116 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: mostly I'm just thinking about the friends that I now 117 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: have in Uvalde. 118 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 4: Right on a day like today, because you know, first 119 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 4: of all, doctor Gifrido's clip, when I saw it as 120 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 4: a parent, as a human being, as being the only 121 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 4: pediatrician in Ualde, I just can't even begin to think 122 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 4: of that day and can't even begin to think of 123 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 4: what's happening today in Oualde. Really in a way, grateful 124 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 4: to you as a journalist for doing it with part 125 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 4: and I'm just deeply proud. 126 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: And I appreciate that Julia and we did absolutely, I mean, 127 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: we move as a team with heart, being very conscious 128 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: of the traumatic space that we were in Uvalde, making 129 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: up a commitment to spend quite a bit of time there. 130 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: But you know, this is a frontline documentary, and frontline 131 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: at its core is investigative work. 132 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: And so. 133 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: The investigative part, I think is really revealing, and it's 134 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: not a good look for the state of Texas or 135 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: for the governor. Now, you know people in the state 136 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: of Texas are reporting. Is showing, right, is that they 137 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: are beginning, even people who are Republicans, right, are beginning 138 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: to need to have some more answers rather than just 139 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's mental health, mental health, mental health. So 140 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: the conversation about the fact that the Uvalde families, not 141 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: all of them, but some of them have been pushing 142 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: as activists to get the state to raise the age 143 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: of purchase for an assault weapon from eighteen to twenty one. Right, 144 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: the shooter was eighteen days after he turned eighteen. That's 145 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: when he bought the gun, That's when he got the bullets. 146 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: That's then this horrible thing happened. The activism of the families, 147 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: and there's a long history of activism in nuvaldeve As. 148 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: We've talked about that, the student walk out, et cetera 149 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies. This is one of the investigative stories, 150 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: right that we're pursuing, which is watching how the families 151 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: in fact have been able to affect the politics of 152 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: Texas and the investigative side, which is the fact that 153 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: even though Texas has the second highest rate of mass 154 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: shootings in our country, that since the first shooting that 155 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: was tracked by the Texas Tribune in their investigation in 156 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties up until now, there has been no 157 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: legislation ever even brought to the floor in the state 158 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: of Texas to address this. And it's because there's this 159 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: whole culture of the gun in Texas. But I think 160 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: that there's Uvalde is definitely part of a tipping point. 161 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: Are they there yet? No, But again it's because of 162 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: the families in Uvalde and their activism that anything has changed. 163 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 4: You know, you said to me, I remember, and you 164 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 4: told me straight up, I'm a different journalist after Uvalde. 165 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 4: I'm a different person after Uvalde. And I noticed it, 166 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 4: and I can say I can speak this with authority 167 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 4: because I've known you now for eight and a half 168 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 4: years and you told me that straight up, and I 169 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 4: saw a difference in you, and it's a good difference. 170 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 4: I think I see you on this path of like 171 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 4: this will be a place for me forever, Like I 172 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 4: will not forget this community, and it lends itself to 173 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 4: the long term issue of PTSD which you suffered from after. 174 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: Nine to eleven and talk about a lot. 175 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, you talk about the PTSD within the Valde community, 176 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 4: especially for the survivors of the shooting. So this notion 177 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 4: of the deep impacts of PTSD and mental health in 178 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 4: the Valde community is definitely one of the parts of 179 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 4: the story that you reported on in the Frontline documentary 180 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 4: and the Latino USA Audio companion reporting. So let's take 181 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 4: a listen to a clip from all your reporting. 182 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 8: These kids are it's just they're walking PTSD just like 183 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 8: a veteran and it you know veterans, you know they 184 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 8: have to fight for getting mental health access and we're 185 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 8: being put in the same situation, except the only difference is, 186 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 8: you know, they signed up for my children. My child 187 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 8: did not. 188 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 4: So, Madia, we can talk about the facts and the 189 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 4: figures and the charts and the graphs and the calls 190 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 4: for gun legislation in this country, but the longer term 191 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 4: health effects of Uvalde are much harder to measure. What 192 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 4: can you tell us from your reporting to paint a 193 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 4: picture of why it's so hard to measure? 194 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: So, as everyone who listens to our fabulous show, you 195 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: all know that I developed PTSD after covering September eleventh 196 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: for CNN and being a mom to young children at 197 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: the time, and so what was weird for me? What 198 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: was hard, What was the challenge was finding myself as 199 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: far away as possible from New York in Uvalde, Texas 200 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: and identifying with the trauma that I was seeing everywhere 201 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: in Uvalde. I mean everywhere everyone that you met is 202 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: dealing with this. There's just no other way. So you 203 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: have an entire town that needs to actually do public healing, 204 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: like massive auditorium style meditation. And I'm just coming up 205 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: with this off the top of my head. I no, no, 206 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: like musical healing, like open the public park and like 207 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: this is a place that needs that like on a 208 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: weekly basis. Wow, Right, if Uvalde is a mental health 209 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: desert because you have one psychiatrist, right, and now there 210 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: is more attention being placed. But that was basically all 211 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: you had, So now you have this much more need. 212 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: The reporting that we did is that the people of 213 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: Uvalde feel neglected, have felt that way for decades actually 214 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: by the state, and then this kind of like you 215 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: don't matter, You're just not that important, and sadly, oh 216 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: ya Mejulia, this was hard to hear, and I heard 217 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: it the day I got to Uvalde the first time 218 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: in January, which was the families have been told, you know, 219 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: they should get over it, and it's like, you're kidding 220 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: me that anyone would say this to any family in Nuvalde. 221 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: So the trauma is going to be there for a 222 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: long time. 223 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: And my hope is that it becomes not a mental 224 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: health desert but becomes a mental health garden, and that 225 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 1: people who have capacity to offer mental health services go 226 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: to Uvalde and help. 227 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 2: This is a town that needs help. 228 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: Of course, the other side of the story is that 229 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: the people of Uvalde are people who understand activism and 230 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: they are demanding things, that's for sure. 231 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 4: Hey, before we go, there's a particular animal that's popular 232 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 4: in Uvalde. What is the animal? And why did you 233 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 4: ask me to ask you that question? Because now I'm 234 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 4: infinitely curious about this connection. 235 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: So the reason why I asked you to ask me 236 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: this question and is because I think people think of 237 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: Uvalde now and they just think, oh my god, horror, terrible, 238 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, sadness morning. Yes, I want people to understand 239 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: that there is a lot of beauty and joy and 240 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: happiness in Uvalde, and I also experience that and that 241 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: my life has been changed by getting to know Caitlin Gonzalez, 242 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,119 Speaker 1: her mom, Gladys, her dad Nef, her little sister Camilla. 243 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: She's a survivor and she's an activist now. And so 244 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: we laughed a lot. There's a lot of laughter that 245 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: I experienced in Uvalde. And so there's actually an Instagram 246 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: for the chickens of Uvalde. Yes, the chickens, because the chickens. 247 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: I'm loving that. I'm laughing while I'm talking about Valde 248 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: because lose guys Ubalde are so famous. They have an 249 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: Instagram page because you never know where they're going to 250 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: show up, and they kind of pop out in the 251 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: middle of the road. 252 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 4: I following now, I'm following it. 253 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: We wanted this to be part of the front line, 254 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: you know. I think they were like, yeah, no, I 255 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: don't think we can go. 256 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: Coming up on frontline Los Poo. 257 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: So I just want people to understand that. Also, Walde 258 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: now is a place of extraordinary art. The murals that 259 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: they made for the kids and the two teachers son 260 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: impression Nantees, and it is the place where I got 261 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: the coldest beer I've ever had in the United States 262 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: of America in Uwalde, Texas. So let's also bring joy 263 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: those of you who can, you know, send what you 264 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: can to the people of Uvalde that brings joy and 265 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: happiness because they need it and they're also, like all 266 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: of us, after trauma, trying to put it together by 267 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: putting one foot in front of the other. 268 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 2: So, dear listener, after. 269 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: The break, we're going to continue our conversation about Uvalde, 270 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: and actually we're going to bring in Keith Beauchamp. He's 271 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: a filmmaker who made the movie Till, and Monica Munhos Martinez, 272 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: who is a historian from Muvalde. We're going to talk 273 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: about the role of moms in all of this and 274 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: decisions that moms make in a tragic moment. So Nottevayes Hey, 275 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: welcome back to in the Thick. I'm Maria no Josa. 276 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: Let's turn to our roundtable. Now joining us for this 277 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: discussion from the liberated Territory or something like that of Brooklyn, 278 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: New York is Keith Beauchamp. He's an award winning filmmaker 279 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: and producer on the film Till. Keith, it's great to 280 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: have you on the show. Welcome from Brooklyn. I'm in Harlem. 281 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: All in the house. 282 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. 283 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: And joining us. 284 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: From Austin, Texas. Is Monica Muno's Martinez. She's somebody who 285 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: I see as a guiding light in the story of 286 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: Uvalde and understanding it. She's a historian and associate professor 287 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: the University of Texas at Austin, a MacArthur Genius Award fellow. 288 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Monica. It's great to be talking 289 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: to you again. 290 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 7: It's great to be with you. 291 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: So Monica knows this because I actually was inspired because 292 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: of the work that Monica has done as a historian 293 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: on Uvalde and on violence in Texas against Mexicans and Latinos. 294 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: So basically, for the greater part of this year and 295 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: a little bit of last, I have been reporting on 296 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: Uvalde and the aftermath. And that means that I've been 297 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: on a lot of planes, too many hotels and a 298 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: lot of planes. And I was traveling to Austin actually 299 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: to cover a hearing recently on gun legislation, and I 300 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: was looking for the movies on the plane and Till 301 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: was there. Till Is the movie directed by Chinoya Chiku 302 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: produced and co written by U Keith. It tells the 303 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: story of maybe Till Mobley's fight for justice for her son, 304 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: fourteen year old Emmett Till. Remember, of course, he was 305 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: lynched in nineteen fifty five. And you know, I think 306 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people think, oh, my god, Till, it's 307 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: gonna be it's gonna be a horrible movie. In fact, 308 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful film, so beautifully directed and acted 309 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: and everything, the cinematography, the music, the production just beautiful, 310 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: even though it's a film about something really horrible. And 311 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: so I want to know, actually, Keith, you, being close 312 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: to mother Mobley, what do you keep in mind as 313 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: you continue to document Emmett Till's legacy even after she's gone. 314 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: And you know, again, it was nineteen fifty five when 315 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: Mother Mobley made this decision to have an open casket. 316 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: It changed his But I'm wondering, what are the things 317 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: that you hold close, Keith. 318 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 5: Well, what I hold close is a lot of the 319 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 5: things that she instilled in me before she passed away. 320 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 5: She understood the importance of telling Emmitt's story time and 321 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 5: time again. I've said often when I've done interviews over 322 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 5: the years, there's no other story that speaks more to 323 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 5: this generation political and racial climate than the story of 324 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 5: Emmit Lewis Till then I think about many of the 325 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 5: things that she used to say to me. White thing 326 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 5: comes to mind often. She used to say to me 327 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 5: all the time, Keith, you must continuously tell Emmitt's story 328 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 5: until man's consciousness is risen, because only then that would 329 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 5: mean justice for him. At till and for the longest time, 330 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 5: I didn't quite understand what she was trying to instill 331 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 5: in me. I was young. Here's this iconic civil rights 332 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 5: icon who's actually talking to me, Little Keith Bowshop from 333 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 5: Baton Rouge, Louisiana. 334 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 2: And I didn't really. 335 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 5: Understand what she was trying to tell me until I'm 336 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 5: matured in understanding the story of Immatetill a lot more, 337 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 5: and of course how the civil rights movement had come along, 338 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 5: and so what she was trying to say to me 339 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 5: that I realized now more than ever. She was trying 340 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 5: to say that no matter how long I fight, no 341 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 5: matter how hard I fight to get justice for her son, 342 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 5: it's not going to stop all the immitate tills of 343 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 5: the world from hand. And of course, in recent years 344 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 5: and decades, we see that happening time and time again, 345 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 5: and so I truly believe that Mother Mobley had the 346 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 5: blueprint to men's liberation when it comes to racial progression 347 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 5: in this country, and of course when we're fighting against 348 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 5: social injustice. And so it's still the story of Mattil 349 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 5: and which is why I continue to tell the story. 350 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 5: That is important that we understand what transpired in nineteen 351 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 5: fifty five, because I firmly believe if we forget our past, 352 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 5: history will repeat itself. And that's what we're saying happening today. 353 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that, Keith. And what part 354 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: did you say? Where are you from? Exactly in Louisiana. 355 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 2: Baton Rouge, Baton Rouge. 356 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: All right, Baton Rouge is representing just saying we love Louisiana. So, Monica, 357 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: you actually grew up in Uvalde, Texas. You joined us 358 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: just a few days after the massacre happened in Uvalde. 359 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 2: You are now based in Austin, Texas. 360 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: And your research that you spoke to us about this 361 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: on Latino USA goes deep into law enforcement violence against 362 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: Latinos and Latinas in Texas and along the border. But 363 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: you've also researched racial violence in the civil rights era 364 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: as well. And these examples from Emmett Till's murder to 365 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: the deadliest school shooting in Texas and Wilde are basically 366 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: showing us that policing and law enforcement don't always take 367 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: the responsibility in the fight for justice, obviously, and that 368 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: it sadly it falls on the mothers to prove their 369 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: pain and basically have to kind of use their pain 370 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: and their range to inspire change. And one of these 371 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: this is why I'm fascinated by Valde, and we'll talk 372 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: about that in a second. But in another part of Texas, 373 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: there's a mom named Ronda Hart. She's the mother of 374 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: Kimberly Vaughn. Her fourteen year old daughter died in May 375 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: of twenty eighteen in the Santa Fe, Texas High school shooting, 376 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: which was the first school shooting in Texas, and Ronda 377 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: has now become an activist pushing for tighter gun laws 378 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: in Texas. And she's interestingly not a surprise, right she's 379 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: been blocked from viewing her daughter's autopsy report. She's pushing 380 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: to get it. Not everybody wants these things, but some 381 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: people do, and you have to fight for it. So 382 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: this is what she told our producer Futuro investigates producer 383 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: Sofia Sanchez about this situation. 384 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: Let's take a listen, Let's go to the tape. 385 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 7: That's the whole thing I've been lobbying for this session 386 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 7: is to get my autopsy report. 387 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 5: After five years, I still don't have that. 388 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 7: Our district attorney in Galison County won't give it to us. 389 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: It's his discretion, but he chooses not to. 390 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: So Monica, there is historical context. Again, we're talking about 391 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: what happened to emmat Till in nineteen fifty five. We're 392 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: talking about what happened in Uvalde in twenty twenty two. 393 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: We're talking about what happened five years ago in Santa Fe, 394 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: Texas in the high school. Can you give us some 395 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: historical context though, about how it is that mothers and 396 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: I know that this is part of the work that 397 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: you've done in documenting other massacres. It's actually mothers and children, 398 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: mothers of the victim and children's survivors. They end up 399 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: having to kind of fight for access to the story, 400 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: to the truth, to the facts. But there is historical 401 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: context here. This doesn't just happen now, right. Can you 402 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,479 Speaker 1: help us understand this. 403 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 7: Yeah, So, unfortunately, the history of racial violence in this 404 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 7: country teaches us a lot of things about violence today. 405 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 7: You know, Number one is that time does not heal 406 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 7: all wounds. That feelings of injustice are carried and they 407 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 7: are passed from generation to generation, and they impact how communities, 408 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 7: community relations, and how people perceive their relationship to government, 409 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 7: to police and institutions. So Notable on Clodia Rodriguez lives 410 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 7: in San Antonio. She's a descendant of Hisshu's Bazzad and 411 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 7: Anthonio Long Clodia, who were murdered in twenty fifteen by 412 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 7: a pose that included a Texas ranger. And so when 413 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 7: I asked, you know why she had committed so much 414 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 7: time to preserving that story, she said, it's injustice never 415 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 7: leaves you, it's inherited loss. And you know, I have 416 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 7: studied people like notable on Couadiodo Vegas, but also people 417 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 7: who survived in the aftermath of murders, police homicides, massacres, 418 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 7: lynchings and seeing that in calling for redress and calling 419 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 7: for accountability and transparency for records, they left a record. 420 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 7: And especially if we think about violence, that is state sanctioned. 421 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 7: If we think about the history of police homicides, that 422 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 7: the police people who were calling for violence or who 423 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 7: were aggressors, they also preserved a corrupt archive. And so 424 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 7: that meant that due to false reports and corrupt archives, 425 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 7: that victims and survivors carried the burden of being the 426 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 7: truth tellers. And so this included parents, This included children, 427 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 7: in some cases grandparents, and also people who witnessed violence, massacres, 428 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 7: police homicides, and who were deeply troubled by what they witnessed, 429 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 7: haunted by it, and compelled to testify. So, you know, 430 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 7: I senso Walde, you know, thought about some of the 431 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 7: kids and the families that I wrote about for my 432 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 7: book Research and I wrote about for my book, and 433 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 7: one of the stories that keeps returning to me is 434 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 7: the story of Matina and Goncepsian Swasta, who witnessed the 435 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 7: lynching of their father, Flodentino Swasta and Cotula, Texas in 436 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 7: eighteen ninety five, and the local law enforcement, you know, 437 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 7: acting with a culture of impunity, falsely explained that the 438 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 7: you know, a mob had overtaken the jailer and removed 439 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 7: Flordenthino by force, and that they couldn't be identified. And 440 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 7: it's one of these daughters who witnessed this that said no, 441 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 7: the jailer let them in. And one of these daughters 442 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 7: who identified one of the mob participants by name, gave 443 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 7: a physical description his hair color, his beard color, and 444 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 7: that she did so she recognized one of them when 445 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 7: she was begging in town for money. And so it 446 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 7: just gives you a glimpse into the life of people 447 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 7: living in a period of racial terror, the extreme vulnerability 448 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 7: and yet the deep commitment to justice and the links 449 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 7: that people have been willing to go to seek the truth, 450 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 7: to get closure, and even just to be able to 451 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 7: start to heal by having information about what happened. And 452 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 7: so it's deeply troubling that today we have families that 453 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 7: are in pain, that are asking, that haven't had their 454 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 7: most basic questions answered, and that they have anything in 455 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 7: common with people who witnessed and survived lynchings and massacres 456 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 7: more than one hundred years ago. 457 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a horror and it is sadly it is 458 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: a part of our country. And that's why I think 459 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: what happened with Mother Mobley and the decision that she 460 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: aid in a modern era, right where newspapers were now 461 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: carrying photographs. Of course what she said to the funeral director. 462 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 9: I looked at mister Rayner, and mister Rayner wanted to 463 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 9: know was I going to have the casket opened? I said, oh, yes, 464 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 9: we're going to open the casket. He said, well, Miss Bradley, 465 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 9: do you want me to, oh do something for the face, 466 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 9: want me to try to fix it up? I said, no, 467 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 9: let the people see what I've seen. I said, I 468 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 9: want the world to see this. 469 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: And then, you know, there was a distribution of this 470 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: graphic photograph of his mutilated body to the media, and 471 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: that photo changed history right sixty eight years later. It's 472 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: a reminder of the violent structure basically of white supremacy, 473 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: the power of white supremacy that is at the core 474 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: of this country. Again, even though the film Till is 475 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: about this, you know, this, this mutilation right based on 476 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: hatred and a lie. Mother Mobley said, everybody's going to 477 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: see this. And I wonder at this point about the conversation, 478 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: which is incredibly controversial, right around the power of graphic 479 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: images and igniting change. We're going to take a listen 480 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: again to another clip from Ronda Hart, who again is 481 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: still waiting for access to her daughter's crime scene photos. 482 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 2: I think that they should be shared. I think that 483 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 2: the public needs to know. I don't think that. 484 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 7: There's any other way to really illustrate the devastation the 485 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 7: guns can cause. And I think that, you know, maybe 486 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 7: not showing a victim's fees like my daughter was shot 487 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 7: and her torso and stuff, but showing her injuries. 488 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would support that. I think they should make 489 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 2: it public. 490 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: So I find it interesting Keith and Monica that the 491 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: state probably in reaction to what mother Mobley did. The 492 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: state has ultimate control. Again, this is your child's body. 493 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: You are the parent. You should have the right to 494 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: anything in regards to this, and yet the state is 495 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: saying no, yes, And so I'm wondering, Keith, how you 496 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: process this really challenging conversation about the sharing of graphic images, 497 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: especially after these conversations that you had with mother Mobley 498 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: and documenting her life. 499 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 5: Well, you know, it's really a troubling moment to continue 500 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 5: to hear what it seems to be decades after decade 501 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 5: of people having this type of conversation about an atrocity 502 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 5: that we're faced with today. And so it's very important 503 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 5: to understand the magnitude of Mother Mobley's decision to have 504 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,959 Speaker 5: an open casket funeral so the world could see what 505 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 5: happened to her son. Because without that courageous decision, we 506 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 5: would have never heard the likes of people such as 507 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 5: Martin Luther King, Sister Rosa Parks, and so on. You 508 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 5: wouldn't have had a movement of the sixties because many 509 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 5: of those who are part of that movement would tell 510 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 5: you that they're from the Emmit Toll generation. And so 511 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,239 Speaker 5: I guess what I'm saying, Maria. If we're looking for 512 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 5: a new movement for change, one must take action. And 513 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 5: what is that action? Well, if we could take a 514 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 5: look at what transpired in nineteen fifty five and the 515 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 5: courageousness of Mother Mobley having this open casket funeral, And 516 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 5: for people to understand you have to understand this. There 517 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 5: were many lynchings going on at that time in fifty five. 518 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 5: A lot of the victims were a lot younger than 519 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 5: Emmitt Till. But what set this away from all the 520 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 5: others was her courageous decision to have an open casket funeral. 521 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 5: And is that photograph that awakened the sleeping giant of 522 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 5: good hearted people across the globe. And that's why we 523 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 5: saw change now Again, if we're looking for a change today, 524 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 5: and we've all been longing for a new movement, well, 525 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 5: in order for us to truly understand how to reach 526 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 5: that level, that goal of a new movement for change, 527 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 5: we have to understand what transpired in nineteen fifty five 528 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 5: and the courageous actions of Mother mobe. Now, nothing hits 529 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 5: you more than a visual and Mother Mobley knew that, 530 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 5: which is why she had this open casket fune because 531 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 5: it wasn't just someone telling you about a lynching that 532 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 5: took place. Now you could see the visual of what 533 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 5: this lynching had done to this fourteen year olbo, and 534 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 5: that's what made it so powerful. If it was fourteen 535 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 5: years old, we could all relate to being fourteen years old. 536 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 5: So yeah, to the mothers and to the families of 537 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 5: your valde, I have to support many of those decisions 538 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 5: of having these pictures shown. We had the same conversation 539 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 5: with Sandy Hook took place and everybody was saying that 540 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 5: we need an immit till moment, and I don't believe 541 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 5: that things would change until we have that Imma till 542 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 5: moment with these families. 543 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: The thing is Monica, and you may not agree, right, 544 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: So I believe that this is such a personal decision, right, 545 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: And having been on a lot of ends of death, 546 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: right including having a family member who disappeared in Mexico 547 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: and therefore having that thing, which is that you want 548 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: to know everything about their death. And some people can 549 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: understand that they feel like that's a little gory. But mony, guys, 550 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, in fact, there is somebody who I'm I'm 551 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: Internet friends with and who I've interviewed on Latino USA 552 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: whose own daughter, Anna Grace, was murdered in Sandy Hook, 553 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: Nelba Marquez Green. And Nelba is very adamant. She says, 554 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: do not ask me to show the photographs. How dare you? 555 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: What an act of disrespect of any journalist to ask 556 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: me to share that? And so I hold Nelba in 557 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: my heart as I'm also you know, having been in 558 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: Uvalde basically since January on and off. And the one 559 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: the horror that the parents went through, the fact that 560 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: they are being denied all access to any information, any photographs, 561 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: any video. But this is a difficult one, moniquette. So 562 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: you have two ways to look at this. One is 563 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 1: a historian, and two as a mom and as a Texan, 564 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: as a Mexicana from Muvalde, and somebody who's been very 565 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: close to the community since the massacre on May twenty fourth, 566 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. So give us, give us how you 567 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: process this conversation, this debate. 568 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's so complicated. It's so complex. And I'll start 569 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 7: by first responding to the what you described as the 570 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 7: impulse for wanting to know every detail of what happened 571 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 7: to your loved one, and coordinating with experts and trauma 572 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 7: who have conducted trauma informed work, that that is actually 573 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 7: something that is very common, and that for families who 574 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 7: lose a loved one to violent crime, that having details 575 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 7: about what happened is a crucial part to start healing. 576 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 7: And so family members of a mother's, siblings, a child's, 577 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 7: if someone is asking for information and seeking information, photographs, 578 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 7: or autopsies, they should have access to that information. I 579 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 7: think that it's I've learned that it's important for them 580 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 7: to be able to heal. And again, not everybody wants 581 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 7: all of the same information, and so that is an 582 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 7: individual request. But as a historian, I've also and I 583 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 7: have seen you know, from the history of the NAACP 584 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 7: and journalists like IDB. Wells and social luminaries like Mother 585 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 7: mobile that the anti lynching movement was tireless and worked 586 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 7: for over half a century to try to end the 587 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 7: lynching culture and raise national consciousness about the inhumanity of 588 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 7: the practice. And it took decades worth of work. And 589 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 7: really the Immittill moment was so crucial because it did 590 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 7: raise the national consciousness so that there was a movement 591 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 7: then to end the practice. 592 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: Because I'm sorry to interrupt, but in some ways, Moniquet, 593 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: what had happened is that there were photographs of men 594 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: who had been lynched. In fact, they were made into postcards. 595 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: They were sent via US Postal Service. So it's almost 596 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: like when people say, well people will get desensitized, Well, 597 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: there was a desensitization to men being lynched, right, except 598 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: then Mother Mobley makes this decision and it changes everything. 599 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 7: Well, it's also in a different moment. It's post brown 600 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 7: versus board, and so across the country and the South, 601 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 7: in different states, there's an effort in southern states like 602 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 7: Texas to maintain segregation. And so the decision the open casket, 603 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 7: the horror of the lynching of Emmett till it also 604 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 7: was at a moment in which the nation and people 605 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 7: across the country were making decisions about the world that they. 606 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 2: Wanted to live in. 607 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 7: And so what I have to contrast today is that 608 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 7: the majority of Americans, the majority of Texans, believe and 609 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 7: support in common sense gun reform. And it's not the 610 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 7: need to shake the national conscience. It's a need to 611 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:31,839 Speaker 7: shape legislators into passing legislation. So something that I am 612 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 7: returning to Kimberly and Felix Rubio who showed a photograph 613 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 7: of their daughter Alexi in an open casket to a 614 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 7: US senator and asked for their support in passing gun 615 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 7: reform in the honor of Lexi and so that other 616 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 7: kids would not suffer the same violence, and it didn't happen. 617 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 7: And also State Senator Roland Gutierez he in Texas has 618 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 7: also explained that he has legislators who refuse to look 619 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 7: at the footage that they have access to from Mold 620 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 7: And so for me, it's a question of what is 621 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 7: putting information out there, putting photographs out there? Will people look, 622 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 7: Will the people who can make decisions look? And my 623 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,760 Speaker 7: other concern is that we are living in a climate 624 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 7: when we are experienced a mentical health crisis, and particularly 625 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 7: the mental health crisis among youth, and the way that 626 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 7: images circulate now, the way that kids have access to 627 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 7: what's put online, to me is worrisome. But that question 628 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 7: of what will make people who are in positions of 629 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 7: power to make changes in policy, what will make them 630 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 7: look is something that I don't have an answer for. 631 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: Oh, it's so hard, so listen, we're gonna wrap up. 632 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: And as I've said now that I'm talking about making 633 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: the frontline film in Uvalde, and actually le Bretavad le 634 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: Bret Vad, Monica and Keith after seeing some of the images, 635 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: because as an investigative journalist, yes, I have seen things 636 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:27,240 Speaker 1: about Uvalde, and I am not the same the before 637 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 1: and after Marie No Josse is not just one who 638 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: has been impressed by the horror of it, impressed in 639 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: the sense of like it will stay. It's marked me 640 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: like a tattoo on my brain. But also Monica, we 641 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: haven't had a chance to talk about this, but to me, Uvalde, 642 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: the fact that the parents of Uvalde have stepped up 643 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: and spoken back to the Texas politics to the Republican 644 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: legislature of the Republican governor that they were able to move. 645 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: The legislator was never able to pass, but they were 646 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 1: able to at least be heard have a hearing. You 647 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: to have a hearing where they could speak to me. 648 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: There is, in fact, a lot of hope, and I 649 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: center that hope. It's what actually keeps me going. So 650 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: we're going to end on hope. And actually, Keith, we'll 651 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: start with you. Like I said, I hope everybody watches 652 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: the movie Till because it is such a beautiful movie, 653 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,399 Speaker 1: and it does fill me with hope because, as you said, 654 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: it was a call across the world. It was not 655 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: just the United States, it was the whole world that 656 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: was saying no more. So, what's something that gives you 657 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,800 Speaker 1: hope in this whole conversation that we can hold on to. 658 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 5: Well, it gives me hope that you have a show 659 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 5: such as this that allows someone to speak. I mean, 660 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 5: many of these families, and I've worked with many of them, 661 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 5: they just want the opportunity to have a platform to 662 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 5: speak about their loved ones, to have a recorded history 663 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 5: so they would be remembered. And that gives me hope. 664 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 5: That you have a show such as this that allows that. 665 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 5: But also I want people to be encouraged. You know, 666 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 5: just by showing a photograph, you won't receive action by 667 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 5: that alone. It's going to take the people to collectively 668 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 5: get involved with change for change to happen. And so 669 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,879 Speaker 5: you can't help but have hope, especially someone such as 670 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 5: myself who've devoted his life to civil human rights, many 671 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 5: of us who have made this decision to take on 672 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 5: social injustice in this country. We know that it takes 673 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 5: some time. That you know, we're talking about generational ills 674 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 5: and may take the generation of two to fix, but 675 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,800 Speaker 5: we know that we must be on the front lines 676 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 5: to fight. And so I have hope just simply being 677 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 5: on this show and you know, being able to speak 678 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 5: about my SHEI ro and the things that we must 679 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 5: be doing in this country if we ever want to 680 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 5: see change happen again. 681 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 1: And dude, you know, when did you ever think that 682 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: the movie Till would be playing on the airplanes in 683 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,879 Speaker 1: the United States and that people. Yeah, so if you're 684 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 1: if you haven't watched it, please please please do Monica, 685 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,400 Speaker 1: something that you've held on to in the conversation that 686 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,320 Speaker 1: gives you hope again. You grew up in Uvalde, that 687 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: you live in Austin now, but something about the families 688 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: removal there maybe that is giving you hope. 689 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 4: Yeah. 690 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 7: I mean, it's one of the things that is just 691 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 7: so profound that there's such a deep commitment weld to 692 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:44,760 Speaker 7: heal and to repair and actually to go to great 693 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 7: links to improve the social wellbeing of every kid in Velde, 694 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:57,240 Speaker 7: and in that process finding strategies and solutions to meet 695 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 7: the magnitude of unmet needs. There's such a deep commitment 696 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:07,280 Speaker 7: by people involved it to taking those and helping improve 697 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 7: the well being of kids across Texas, across the state, 698 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,240 Speaker 7: and across the world. And that deep commitment to saying 699 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,879 Speaker 7: we're going to fight for justice not just for our 700 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 7: own families, but for families everywhere is so deeply inspiring. 701 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this Morniquay, because it 702 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: happened kind of quickly, But on the Friday after the shooting, 703 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 1: the mass shooting in Nashville a couple of weeks back, 704 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 1: Kitlin Gonzalez and a bunch of her fifth grade classmates 705 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: from rob Elementary. 706 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,399 Speaker 2: Now they're no longer at that school, but they walked out. 707 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, they walked out of the classroom, they had little 708 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, lined you know signs, they're lined paper signs, 709 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,320 Speaker 1: which was like, stop the gun violence, remember the twenty 710 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 1: one No. I mean, it was just extraordinary, and so 711 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,279 Speaker 1: thank you for saying that it's what I hold on to. 712 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: I never would have imagined that I would feel so 713 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 1: close to a family of I mean, they're great Americans 714 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 1: because they're participating in the political process as activists, and 715 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,240 Speaker 1: that this new part of my extended family is in Uvalde, Texas, 716 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: and it's Caitlin and Gladys, Gonzalez and neph and Gamilla, 717 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 1: you know, and we text back and forth and they're like, 718 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 1: you know, Caitlyn's you know, doing softball right now, or 719 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: Caitlin's on the zip line, or Caitlyn is dancing, or 720 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,360 Speaker 1: Caitlyn is going to speak at a rally right now. 721 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: And so I feel hopeful that I have made this 722 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 1: profound connection with your hometown of Uvalde and to become 723 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: closer to you, Monica and have this conversation with you. 724 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 2: Keith. 725 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining me on this 726 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: episode of In the Thing. I so appreciate it. 727 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,320 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Keith. 728 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: Beauchamp is an award winning filmmaker and monicam Mundo's Martinez 729 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: is an award winning historian and associate professor at the 730 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 1: University of Texas at Austin. 731 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:15,359 Speaker 2: And I'm Maria Noojosa. Also, Dear listener, be. 732 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 1: Sure to check out our documentary with Frontline on PBS 733 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: and the Texas Tribune. It's called After Uvalde, Guns, Grief 734 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: and Texas Politics. And also be sure to check out 735 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: our one hour special on Latino USA. It's a beautiful 736 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: independent piece actually collaboration with Frontline and Futuru Investigates that 737 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,880 Speaker 1: airs on Friday, June second. 738 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 2: It's called Uvalde Rising and Special. 739 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: Thanks to our intrepid Futudo Investigates producer Sophia Sanchez for 740 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,839 Speaker 1: co producing this episode. Dear listener, go to Apple Podcasts 741 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 1: to rate and review us. 742 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 2: Really helps. 743 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 1: Remember you can listen to In the Think on all 744 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: major podcast platforms. Check us out on the web at 745 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,480 Speaker 1: in Thethik dot org, follow us on Twitter and on Instagram, 746 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,840 Speaker 1: show like us on Facebook, Tell everyone you know to listen. 747 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 1: And the thing is produced by Ner Saudi, Oscott Fernandez 748 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,840 Speaker 1: and our New York Women's Foundation Ignite fellow Daniella Dieo Garson. 749 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,839 Speaker 1: Our editorial director is Fernande Santos. Our audio engineering team 750 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,280 Speaker 1: is Stephanie LAbau, Julia Gruso, Gabrielle Abias and JJ Krubin. 751 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. The music you heard 752 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: is courtesy of Not Captain CZK Records. Dear listener, again, 753 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. See you on the 754 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: next one. Yes, lapproxima Bye. 755 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 8: The opinions expressed by the guests and contributors in this 756 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 8: podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the 757 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 8: views of Futuro Media or its employees.