1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Cool Media. 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. You're 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 2: a weekly reminder that despite all the bad things that 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: are happening, there's people who try to do things about 5 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 2: the bad things that are happening. And I'm your host, 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy, and with me this week to talk about 7 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 2: libraries is Samantha McVay. Hi, Hi, how are you. 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm great? Thanks for having me on again. I love 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: being a part of the show. 10 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: Yay, yeah, yeah, Okay, I have a question. You're the 11 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: host of stuff mom never told you? Correct, I don't 12 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 2: know that your relationship with your own mother. Does your 13 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 2: mom ever get mad about the implication that she never 14 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: told you these things? 15 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,639 Speaker 1: So that's a loaded question. I don't have time. This 16 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: is a real loaded question, Okay, for need this. When 17 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: I told my mother I was quitting my social work 18 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: job to become a podcaster, which, as you would expect, 19 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: first thing was radio what does that mean? Yeah? That 20 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: was that, and then it went into you know, feminist show. 21 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: Oh no, you've become one of those people who was 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: ruining the world, And that proceeded to a cry session 23 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: and I was ignoring each other for a while. Better yet, 24 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: speaking of libraries, I actually myself. My co host recently 25 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: wrote a book based on our show, Intersectional Feminism, and 26 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: I have completely hidden that from my mother in fear 27 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: of her being angry with me. 28 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: Oh shit, I'm sorry that I brought it up. Thank 29 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: you for your honesty about. 30 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: It anyway, bluded questions. But I will say, because my 31 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: mother is absolutely against those things, there's a lot that 32 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: my mother did not tell me. 33 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have a lot of material for the show. 34 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there you go. 35 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: Mine would be the like, there's them. I think it's 36 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: reductrous or something has a meme or headline or whatever 37 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: of a you know, parent just accidentally forgot to mention 38 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: that health issue they've been struggling with for forty years 39 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 2: that runs in the family. Yeah, I'm just like, whoops, 40 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 2: never brought that one up. 41 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: I can't add that to the trauma that I've endured 42 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: because I'm adopted. 43 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: So oh yeah, no, fair enough. 44 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: There's so many loaded things that we're talking about. I 45 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: apologize for the trauma dumping. 46 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: Yeah nope. Now I'm just gonna let me see if 47 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: I can come up with another thing to accidentally bring 48 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: up that I. 49 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: Uh, as you can see, I'm handling it well, you 50 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: did great. 51 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Sophie is our producer. Hi, Sophie, Okay. I 52 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: was when you asked that question, I was like, oh, 53 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: I knows. 54 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: She knows a little bit of trauma. We kind of 55 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: bonded over it. I was like, listen loaded questions. You 56 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: can't come in with those types of questions as an intro. 57 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 1: I love making an awkward presence. 58 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna come up with 59 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: some even worse ones later. That's my plan. Our audio 60 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: engineer is Rory Hi. 61 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: Rory Hi Roy Hello, Sorry about the trauma dumping on 62 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: YouTube arth. 63 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: The music was written for us by Unwoman and the 64 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: main subject this week is New York and probably the 65 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: US's first Puerto Rican librarian. She was an Afro Puerto 66 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: Rican author in puppeteer and trilingual hero named Puta Bepre 67 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: and she is a fascinating subject. I couldn't find a 68 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 2: biography on her, like a book length biography on her, 69 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: but there's a lot of academic papers librarians. There's a 70 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: lot of academic papers about her and a lot of 71 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: like pop articles about her. So I put together the 72 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: best that I can. Her name was the first one 73 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: on the list that was given to me by a 74 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 2: librarian at the conference this year, And yeah, I was 75 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: gonna do them all, but it looks like I'm doing 76 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: Purim and the rest will do it some other time. 77 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: Poor A Belprey was born on February second. Normally you'd 78 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: say what year someone was born after you say the date. 79 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: Who fucking knows what year she was born. Sources will 80 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: claim at ninety nine, nineteen oh one, nineteen oh two, 81 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: and nineteen oh three. She claimed nineteen oh three, so 82 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to go with that one. I will let 83 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: her self identify birth year. It's almost like weird, Well, 84 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: they're supporting documents claiming other years, so it's not just 85 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 2: a like we don't trust her or whatever. Right, she 86 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 2: was generally reasonably cagey about her time in Puerto Rico 87 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: as a kid, and which, you know, whatever, Like no 88 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 2: one needs to talk about their childhood unless the host 89 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: of a podcast brings it up rudely at the top 90 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: of an episode. So like, she's not a public figure, 91 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: she's a librarian. You know, a lot of what is 92 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: known about her are educated guesses. But she was one 93 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: of five kids who grew up in a loving and 94 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: religious family, most likely Catholic, but she didn't seem to 95 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: write or talk much about religion as best as I 96 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: can tell. She also seems to have written or talked 97 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: very little about being black. We've talked about this before 98 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 2: on the show, Like on the episodes we did about 99 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 2: the Young Lords, which is this Puerto Rican I guess 100 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 2: Hall sort of the Puerto Rican Black Panthers, and that's fair, 101 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 2: but also they're peers, so it's like, well, then the 102 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 2: black Panthers are the Black Young Lords whatever, you know, right, Anyway, 103 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: we talked about how Puerto Rican racial identity, at least 104 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: historically looks really different than race looks in the Continental US. 105 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: So it's like, makes a lot of sense that she 106 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: identified strongly as Puerto Rican and that is mostly what 107 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 2: she talked about. She later married a black man and 108 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 2: regularly lived in black neighborhoods, but it seems that her 109 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 2: identity was primarily Puerto Rican. What she did write and 110 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: talk about was her connection to the legacy of Puerto 111 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 2: Rican folklore. She wrote quote, I grew up in a 112 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: home of storytellers, listening to stories which had been handed 113 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: down by word of mouth for generations. As a child, 114 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 2: I enjoyed telling many of these tales that I had heard. 115 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: The characters became quite real to me. I remember during 116 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: school recess that some of us would gather under the 117 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,799 Speaker 2: shade of the tam entree. There we would take turns 118 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: telling stories. The best guess that people make it almost 119 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 2: feels like ghoulish, the way that people write biographies, where 120 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: you're like trying to dredge up this stuff that people 121 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: clearly just didn't really want to talk about, and there's 122 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: no reason that anyone should really care about the real, 123 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: specific nitty gritty of the class upbringing of this you 124 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 2: know person, But yeah, you know, here we are. The 125 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: best guess is that she was in a family that 126 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 2: was sort of culturally middle class, but without money, right, 127 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 2: without much money. Her father was a building contractor who 128 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: moved the family around a lot for work, and she 129 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: grew up speaking Spanish, English, and French, and both of 130 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: her parents were literate. Her older sister at least taught 131 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 2: in Puerto Rico for ten years before moving to New 132 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 2: York City. This is one of the earlier waves of 133 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: Puerto Rican movement into the US. And again, if you 134 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 2: want to hear way more about that. Listen to our 135 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: episodes about the young Lords. Porta graduated high school in 136 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 2: nineteen nineteen, then started college at the University of Puerto Rico. 137 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 2: But when Alise got married in nineteen twenty, the whole 138 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 2: family traveled to New York City for the wedding and 139 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 2: Poro was like, yeah, fuck it, I'm staying in New York. 140 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: And so she stayed in New York and at first 141 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: she got work as a seamstress, which was one of 142 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: the main jobs available to Puerto Rican immigrants at the time. 143 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: But then in nineteen twenty one, she was hired by 144 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: the Public Library of New York, which means I can 145 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: introduce another hero of the episode. Ernestine Rose never met 146 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: anyone named Ernestine. One day. I'm going to meet a 147 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: trans woman named Ernestine, because trans women loved to name 148 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: ourselves like weird old timing names, said Margaret. And I 149 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: definitely know some like Agatha's and you know, whatever. 150 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: Good name. 151 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: I haven't met a Gertrude yet, but it'll happen, oh hope. 152 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: So Ernestine Rose was named after Ernestine Rose, which made 153 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: her hard to look up because it was a much 154 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: more famous Ernestine Rose. The first, Ernestine Rose was an 155 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: abolition and suffer just who I don't know a ton about. 156 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: But Wikipedia called her the first Jewish feminist, or rather 157 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: Wikipedia's as that other people called her that, and who 158 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 2: am I to argue with? I didn't read much about her. 159 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: We're going to mark that, okay, I. 160 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: Know, because it was like, you can only follow each 161 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: rabbit hole like a couple steps right, Rose, the younger 162 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: one is like the already the side character. And then 163 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: I was like, now I'm going to read about this. 164 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: I'm like, wait a second, what am I doing? I 165 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: have I have to record at some point? 166 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: Did you chase after so many? Yeah? 167 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: How do you handle the like level? 168 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: I have so many mini series episodes because it ends 169 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: up being like I have a thought and then that 170 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: thought turns into see, we did a whole religious trauma 171 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: and I thought it might be two parter. It's thirteen 172 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: parts all an hour. 173 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: Long, amazing. I really want to listen to that one. 174 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: So it goes bad. I don't do well. I don't 175 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: do well. 176 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: How long ago? How how far back? 177 00:08:58,880 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: Last year? 178 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 2: This year? Year? 179 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: Being in this year, because we were talking about just 180 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: overall the new anti feminist movement and then talking about 181 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: anti abortion movements and how it's very much rooted into 182 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: religious trauma and white supremacy. So it became a whole thing, 183 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: and then we went down so many rabbit holes. But 184 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: it's specific honestly to American Baptists and like that. We 185 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: don't even talk much about Catholicism. And that's how deep 186 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: we went in without going there. 187 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: Amazing. 188 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a thing. 189 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So the answer is that you would also 190 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: now be doing a whole side episode about Ernestine Rose 191 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 2: one and Ernestine Rose two. I appreciate that. 192 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: You're doing better at controlling this and actually being really 193 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: really like following through things as opposed to myself, who 194 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, I can definitely do this in thirteen parts. 195 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: Let's go. So you're doing. 196 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: Great, Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, so much discipline. So our Ernestine 197 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: that we're going to talk about the librarian Ernestine. We're 198 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: going to call her Ernestine even though she isn't related 199 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: to Ernestine Senior, just because it was funny to me. 200 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 2: Both of them seem cool as hell. Ernestine Junior is 201 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: this white lady who may or may not have been Jewish. 202 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: She apparently claimed she was Jewish and then one historian 203 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: I read disputes this who graduated from library school in 204 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: nineteen oh five, making her one of the first bona 205 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: fide librarians in the United States of America, and she 206 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: hit the ground running to try and make libraries cooler. 207 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: By nineteen oh eight, she was working hard to make 208 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: sure that whatever library she was in was actually integrated 209 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 2: into the ethnic community that it was part of. So 210 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: that's like the big thing we're going to talk about 211 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 2: is integrating libraries into the communities that they're part of, 212 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: instead of being sort of, you know, a place that 213 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 2: shows up and is like everyone should think like these 214 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: white people think. And at the beginning, this meant serving 215 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 2: the Yiddish and Russian speaking Jewish community that she worked in, 216 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: which is probably the community we've talked about a thousand 217 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 2: times on this show, because that's where all the weird 218 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 2: the anarchists and communists from Russia were hanging out because 219 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: they were all Yiddish speaking Jews in like the nineteen 220 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: tens in New York City, and later she moved to 221 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 2: Harlem to a black and Jewish community and immediately started 222 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 2: hiring non white people for the library, like Katherine Allen, 223 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: a Black Woman. She also organized the nineteen twenty one 224 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: exhibition of Quote Negro art at the library, which, according 225 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 2: to author George Hutchinson, Quote marked the beginning of the 226 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: Harlem Renaissance in the visual arts. She made Shit Happen then, 227 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 2: also in nineteen twenty one, she hired puro Belprey because 228 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: there was a sizeable and growing Puerto Rican community in 229 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: the neighborhood as well. She actually first tried to hire Elease, 230 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 2: the sister who got married, but then Elisa's husband told 231 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 2: her she wasn't allowed to go get this job. It's 232 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 2: like a throwaway line, like most of the things you 233 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: read are like was offered to a Lease who was 234 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 2: busy and couldn't do it, And then you read the 235 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: slightly more in depth piece and is like her husband 236 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: told her she couldn't, so she didn't. 237 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: She wasn't allowed. 238 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, unlike Pora, who did not get married until she 239 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 2: was forty, which is probably the better way to go 240 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: about it in certain circumstances like an incredibly patriarchal culture 241 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: of the United States at the time, and so Pooro 242 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 2: was hired as the Hispanic assistant, working in both the 243 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: adult and children's rooms of the library. Her passion was 244 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 2: clearly the children's room. This was the one hundred and 245 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 2: thirty fifth Street branch of the library in Harlem during 246 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 2: the Harlem Renaissance, and soon the library was the center 247 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 2: of that cultural renaissance, or was a center of that 248 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 2: cultural renaissance. And I still haven't deep dived the Harlem Renaissance, 249 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: and I'm not going to do it today, But we've 250 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 2: touched on a few times, like on our episodes about 251 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: Ben Fletcher, the black labor organizer from Philly. Also, my 252 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: great grandmother was like a white artist who knew a 253 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 2: lot of the people in scene, especially where it overlapped 254 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 2: with like leftism more broadly. And so I really want 255 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: to learn more about it at some point, but I 256 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 2: didn't this time. Suffice it to say, Harlem was the 257 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: coolest shit place in the nineteen twenties where black people 258 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 2: did a ton of amazing cultural stuff, and the library 259 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 2: was part of it. It was intentionally part of it. 260 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 2: Because librarians didn't start off as magically known as a 261 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 2: place where people could meet and do things. It seems 262 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 2: like they were seen as white places for white stuff. 263 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 2: Until all these people at the one hundred and thirty 264 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: Fifth Street branch changed that they held talks by like Langston, 265 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 2: Hughes and a bunch of other folks, and one librarian 266 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: later wrote about this time quote, if you are familiar 267 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: with Harlem, you are aware of the fact that the 268 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: streets are frequently made impassable by the many soapbox speakers 269 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: and their enthusiastic audiences. It occurred to us that if 270 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 2: people will listen to politics and patent medicines, then they 271 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 2: will listen to education, provided it as well presented to them. 272 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 2: So we employed one of the most eloquent and most 273 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: popular of these speakers and paid him to address large 274 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: crowds at strategic corners on the streets of Harlem once 275 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: a week. These people were urged to come to a 276 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 2: meeting at the library. Some two thousand people were reached 277 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: each week. If out of these fifty appeared at the library, 278 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: we were confident that something worthwhile had been accomplished. And 279 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 2: so they just yeah, got people to come to the library. 280 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: The other thing that I think is really important to 281 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 2: take away from that is from the very beginning, soapboxing, 282 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 2: which everyone understands, is the podcasting of the oldie times, 283 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: frequently mixed up politics and patent medicines, which brings us 284 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: to the next segment of this show, the advertisers, and 285 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 2: we're back, and so yeah, this library, well the Division 286 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 2: of Negro Literature History in Prince in nineteen twenty five. 287 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: Ernestine Rose also helped the first black woman get through 288 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 2: library school, a woman named Nella Larson, who worked for 289 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: a while at the one hundred and thirty fifth Street branch, 290 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: but is much more famous for her place in literature 291 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: as a writer of American modernism. And it's like the 292 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: most important novelist of the Harlem Renaissance. And there are 293 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 2: biographies about her. And so I'm like, nope, too much 294 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 2: of a side character. Can't because one day probably topic 295 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: of her own. 296 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: We love bonus episodes on our show, so you should 297 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: do bonus episodes with this. 298 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: I'm just saying I do two a week. I mean, 299 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: I guess you do do five? Yeah? All right, all right, 300 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: fair enough. 301 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: You're doing great, Keep going. 302 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: I am so impressed that you also still have time 303 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: to come on other people's shows. I am genuinely I'm honored. 304 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: For you and for Sophie anytime, all the time. Oh thanks, Yes, 305 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: I love this show. I learned so much. 306 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. The other the thing that happened in nineteen twenty 307 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: five is that Poora Bell Prey enrolled in library school 308 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 2: and soon she's going to become the first Puerto Rican 309 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: library in New York City and probably the country. I 310 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: really liked the source I read that was like, yeah, 311 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: we know, she's the first Puerto Rican library in New 312 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 2: York City, and it's like in parentheses it's like which 313 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: realistically probably means the country, but they know they can't 314 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: say it because it's not. Because I really appreciate that 315 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: verified because like I everyone knows that listens to this. 316 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 2: I'm an enemy of any time anyone says the first 317 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: person who did something something because right, like you can't 318 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 2: prove it just anyway whatever my brain works in a 319 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 2: very specific way. 320 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm with you. Like when we talk about 321 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: first on anything, it's understanding that it has to do 322 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: with who's writing the history, where the history, historical contexts 323 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: come from, and who's also claiming what. So it's always 324 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: asterisk because it also you might they just may not 325 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: be discovered, and that's okay because that's some amazing things 326 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: when you get to discover new. 327 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: Information totally being the first isn't the only thing that matters, 328 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: you know exactly. 329 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure she was just excited to be able to 330 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: share her knowledge and her love and her passion. 331 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and she does it. She does it so much. 332 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 2: She gets involved in writing folklore. She once said, quote, 333 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: one of my duties in the children's room was to 334 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: read the fairytale shelves. Thus the folklore of the world 335 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 2: opened for me. As I shelved the books, I searched 336 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: for some of the folk tales I had heard at home. 337 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 2: There wasn't even one. A sudden feeling of loss rose 338 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 2: within me. And so she's at library school and she 339 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: has this teacher, another Librarrian folklorist, a white woman named 340 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: Mary gold Davis. So during that class she writes a 341 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 2: children's book called Peezzi Martine. This goes on to be 342 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 2: published in nineteen thirty two as the first Spanish language 343 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: children's book published by a mainstream press in the United States. 344 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 2: And it is a romance between a cockroach and a mouse. 345 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: And she is very clear this is not her story. 346 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: She heard this from her grandmother, and it is a 347 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 2: Puerto Rican story, like a lot of I've only been 348 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: able to track down some of her stuff, and it'll 349 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 2: specifically say like a Puerto Rican story rather than like 350 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: it'll have her name as the author, but instead of saying, 351 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: like buy what about prey, it would say like a 352 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 2: Puerto Rican story. It's it's it's pretty interesting. 353 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting when you see people with the 354 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,479 Speaker 1: love for their heritage, because we've seen it more and 355 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: more than goodness with like the indigenous people bringing their 356 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: own folklore or like any kind of storytelling to life, 357 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: and they share it with people and they make sure 358 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: to write it because they we know with the colonization, 359 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: we know and all this stuff white people trying to 360 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: erase history. Part of raising that history is those lores 361 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: and making trying to make them disappear or trying to 362 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: make them evil. We know all about that. So having 363 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: people who take the opportunity and time to write it 364 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: down so that they can share and be preserved, it's 365 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: such a phenomenal thing to see and being able to 366 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: see their love for their heritage, even like it just 367 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: feels like I'm being honored, like I'm being privileged to 368 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: see and hear about their culture, and I love that aspect. 369 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: Folklore is so beautiful to me, just because of that. 370 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: When I started learning more about like Korean folklore, I 371 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: was like, what, And you just feel this sense of 372 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: connectedness to something that you may not have like in 373 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: so long or ever. So that's something to two with, 374 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: like we should definitely be honoring people like her, Yeah, 375 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: who are preserving such tales and traditions. I love that. 376 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: No, that makes a lot of sense to me. And 377 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: it's interesting because I one of the things that I 378 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 2: end up I read a lot of like nineteenth century 379 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 2: folk tales, or rather nineteenth century writing down of folk tales, 380 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 2: and so a lot of the older ones, the first 381 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 2: ones in English are often written by these sort of 382 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 2: white interlopers or like white observers who are trying to 383 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 2: be good. 384 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: You know. 385 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 2: It's like kind of all over the board. They're either like, 386 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: check out this wacky thing that they believe in Japan, 387 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 2: and other times they're like, I'm white and I've lived 388 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 2: in Japan for forty years and I've tried really hard 389 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: to do this right, you know. Yeah, And it's like 390 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: really interesting. But people actually writing from that culture, which 391 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 2: is what we see more now, is you're more guaranteed 392 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 2: to get the like actual love of that culture instead 393 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 2: of like yeah, and it's funny too because you'll still 394 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 2: even see, like check out this weird thing the Ukrainians 395 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 2: believe over there in weird Land, you know, because the 396 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 2: Ukrainians weren't white in the Victorian mind, like I mean whatever, 397 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 2: they weren't, right. It's complicated, but it's complicating, Yeah, but 398 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 2: it's interesting they bring up this thing about writing these 399 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 2: stories down because it's when we talk about next. Libraries 400 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 2: had a problem. They were colonized as fuck, right, as 401 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: like an institution, So the only real stories by the 402 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: library's mind are the ones that are written down. So 403 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 2: storytelling for Storytelling Hour had to come from a book. 404 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: Western libraries didn't understand the idea of oral literacy yet, right, 405 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: the idea that you can be aware of your culture 406 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 2: through oral traditions. Poor about Pray broke that she was 407 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 2: the first person probably to appeal and win the right 408 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 2: to tell stories that had never been written down. During storytime, 409 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: Mary gold Davis, her teacher, told her, tell your stories, 410 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 2: but only tell the children that none of these stories 411 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 2: have been written down, but maybe someday they will. It's 412 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 2: like this like almost paternalistic, but it's still this like 413 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 2: love where like yeah, it isn't amazing, but one day 414 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: they'll be real stories. But it's still like, it's still 415 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 2: the pretty genuine like poor actually has very She thought 416 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: very highly of the white women librarians who sought her 417 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 2: out and nurtured her career and helped her break into 418 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 2: this white dominated field. Right, So she told the stories 419 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: that eventually would find their way into another one of 420 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: her books, The Tiger and the Rabbit, which was the 421 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: first English language collection of Puerto Rican folklore in the US. 422 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: And she starts writing, and her branch is doing amazing 423 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: stuff in the black community. And then in nineteen twenty 424 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 2: nine she transfers to one hundred and fifteenth Street branch 425 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 2: in a Puerto Rican community, and it's here that she 426 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: really hits her stride and starts kicking ass as a librarian. 427 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, she pioneered Spanish language 428 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 2: content in public libraries. I expect she did it as 429 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 2: part of a team of people who are also amazing, right, 430 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 2: But she worked her ass off to get the community 431 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 2: involved in the library. At some point she watched a 432 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 2: puppet show at her branch and was like, oh, this 433 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 2: is the shit puppet's rule. I'm sure, that's how she 434 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 2: said it. And so for the rest of her life 435 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 2: she worked with kids to put on puppet shows because 436 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: that was part of it, was that by doing puppets 437 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: you could bring the kids into it, right. And she 438 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 2: went around to churches, to community centers, to neighborhood organizations 439 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 2: and schools to put on shows and like just do 440 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 2: outreach into community. She did bilingual shows regularly too, not 441 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 2: just Spanish language shows. And this just like hadn't been done. 442 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: She put on events for three Kings Day, a Puerto 443 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 2: Rican holiday, and she said this quote indirectly presented the 444 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 2: library to this group in a way that no other 445 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 2: activity could have done. Their confidence was gained. The library 446 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 2: put on complete programs in Spanish for children and for adults, 447 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: and basically they did at the one hundred and fifteenth 448 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 2: branch what one hundred and thirty fifth branch did for 449 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 2: the black community. And there's a downside to this, although 450 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 2: I've read conflicting tales of it, there's a problem if 451 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: I actually looking into too many sources, as they all 452 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 2: started arguing with each other, you know, right, Okay, so 453 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 2: this isn't the librarian's fault. But instead of racist city 454 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 2: government's fault. Basically, these two libraries served as quote ghettos 455 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: where all black and Spanish language content could be put, 456 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 2: where all black and latinae workers could be hired. So 457 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 2: it was like you try and get hired as a 458 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 2: black worker, and they'll be like, oh, we'll go up 459 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: to one hundred and thirty fifth and they're like that's 460 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 2: not where I live, you know, and they'd be like, oh, 461 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 2: we already have a black library, like we don't need 462 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: another one. And so that's a problem, and this limits 463 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: their career advancement, right because you can only work in 464 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 2: this one place. 465 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: Right instead of opening spots or making opening doors that 466 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: are like compete with each other. Here you go, good luck. 467 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: And this is because you need to fight this space. 468 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: The small amount of space is all we have for you. 469 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: But anyway, keep going. 470 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: Yes, So in nineteen thirty nine, the Puerto Rican community 471 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: had moved a bit in the city, so she moved 472 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 2: once again to East one hundred and tenth Street and 473 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 2: kept up all the same stuff, bilingual story hour, reading clubs, 474 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: puppet theater, you name it. But you know what they 475 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 2: didn't have at these libraries ads because they were tax 476 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 2: funded instead of funded by private companies. But we, on 477 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 2: the other hand, are funded by private companies. And that 478 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 2: is just the compromises that everyone makes all the time, 479 00:24:54,440 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 2: like the following compromises. Here they are and we're back. 480 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 2: In nineteen forty. She goes to the ala, the American 481 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 2: Library Association convention in Cincinnati, and while she's there, she 482 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 2: meets a musician and composer named Clarence Cameron White, who 483 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 2: is we're going to get to the first like potential 484 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: drama that I'm entirely inferring. The way that the story 485 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 2: is presented is that she meets him and then they 486 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 2: get married a couple years later, and everything's happy and great. 487 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 2: And I started writing it by reading about him and 488 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: being like, oh, he was recently widowed or widowered or whatever. 489 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 2: He recently lost his wife. The complication she meets him 490 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty, his wife doesn't tie until nineteen forty two, 491 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 2: and they don't get married till nineteen forty three. What happened? 492 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: Drama? 493 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 2: Probably they were just friends and then yeah, are they? 494 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: Can they be friends? Yeah? 495 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 2: I mean can they? Yeah? Man and a woman don't 496 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 2: seem posp but like a figure like this, every version 497 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 2: of her history is going to be a little bit sanitized. 498 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I found no scandal. Like I'm not like 499 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 2: particularly worried that there's some like crazy skeleton in her closet. 500 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: But it's like when you're talking about like a children's 501 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: puppeteer person like, no one's like trying to write about 502 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 2: anything salacious, you know. 503 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: Being the other woman, you know, her personality and the 504 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: everything about her reminds me of someone like my old 505 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: drama teacher, who are so passionate and so performed, Like 506 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: they perform and they love and they tell stories and 507 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: they understand the importance of puppetry like and bringing in, 508 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: like acting out these different characters. I could only imagine 509 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: what kind of performances she gave in her storytelling, and 510 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: with that, what type of passion she has, and just 511 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: like in her imagination being able to relay these stories 512 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: in a way that she was so successful enough to 513 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: be known to do this as well as writing these stories, 514 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: I just imagine she's just one of those people no 515 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: totally that you can't help but notice anyway. Yeah, and 516 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: then the effort she puts in telling these stories is 517 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: not telling a story, it is living that story for 518 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: the children or with the children, and I could only 519 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: imagine that's kind of how she also lived life. 520 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 2: I believe it. 521 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: So who knows, maybe some drama does happen, because when 522 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: you have that much passion, you know, yeah, that makes 523 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: it so interesting. 524 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: No, I believe it. And it's it's interesting, right because 525 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 2: you're talking about someone who never had children and gets 526 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 2: married at. 527 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: Forty, right, and so you're my type of a woman. 528 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 2: You're talking about someone who like either lived the like 529 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 2: cat lady life or lived a like pretty wildlife. 530 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: You know, and there's like there we exist to not 531 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: have either of those things. Margaret, how dad, it's true, 532 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: you're with us, what are you talking about? 533 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 2: It's true, right, as an unmarried person in her forties, 534 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 2: no children, Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And also and the 535 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: reason that I mentioned, my great grandmother, who's like basically 536 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 2: living in New York around the same time as an artist, 537 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 2: also didn't get married until four and then had like 538 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 2: one child, and that's like wasn't normal at all for 539 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 2: someone living, you know, a woman living in the early 540 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: part of the twentieth century. Right, So she falls in 541 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,479 Speaker 2: love with Clarence White. You know, he's got his own 542 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: Wikipedia page as a composer and was one of the 543 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: most prominent violinists in the country. And after they get married, 544 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 2: Pura takes a leave of absence from the library to 545 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 2: follow him around on tour for a bit, and then 546 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 2: she goes back to the library and then she's like, 547 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 2: you know what, I actually want to focus on my writing, 548 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 2: and so she just kind of wants to be doing 549 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 2: the art stuff and hell yeah, and so she does 550 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 2: that for a while. She writes. As far as I 551 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 2: can tell, she keeps up the storytelling and the puppets 552 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: during this time, but I'm not one hundred percent certain, 553 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 2: but it's like implied, and she writes like eight books. 554 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 2: Seventeen years into married life, her husband dies of larynx 555 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 2: cancer in nineteen sixty. She goes back to the library 556 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 2: to a new post, one that I think they might 557 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 2: have made just for her, the Spanish children specialist. And 558 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 2: so at this point that whole thing about like the 559 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: Spanish language stuff only being at one or two branches 560 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: is not the case. That was actually some of the 561 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 2: stuff that there seemed to be drama about. 562 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: Is. 563 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 2: I read some people arguing that sort of ghettoization was 564 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 2: not as prominent as other people were claiming and that 565 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: it was other issues keeping people from advancing, and I 566 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 2: read a lot of drama about employment discrimination in the 567 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: nineteen thirties. Basically, anyway, at this point, Spanish language stuff 568 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 2: all over wherever it's needed, and so she just goes 569 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 2: to every branch where it's needed and helps plan events 570 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 2: and helps bilingualize the New York City Public library system, 571 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 2: which is, if that's all she had done, it would 572 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: have been amazing. 573 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: Huge. 574 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 2: If all she had done was write those children's stories, 575 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 2: it would have been amazing. If all she'd done was 576 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 2: be a puppeteer, would have been amazing. Then when she 577 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 2: was sixty five, she was forced to retire, because all 578 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: city employees at the time, we're forced to retire at 579 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 2: sixty five. I don't know if that's still the case 580 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: or not. I actually wonder because at the top, I 581 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 2: was saying that there's like, all these documents suggest she 582 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: was not born in nineteen oh three, but she told 583 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 2: people she was born in nineteen oh three. You know, 584 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 2: I wonder if it was so that she could keep 585 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 2: working a couple extra years. 586 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: Uh smart, But. 587 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 2: I'm not sure, you know, that's entirely my conjecture She 588 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 2: died in nineteen eighty two, but her legacy continues to 589 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 2: this day. Starting in nineteen ninety six, the American Library 590 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 2: Organization gives out an award in Belprey's name every year 591 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 2: for children's books by Latino authors. A librarian originally from 592 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 2: the Dominican Republic named Viennella Rivas told NPR in twenty sixteen, quote, 593 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 2: because of her, we have a story time in Spanish, 594 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 2: we have computer classes in Spanish, and I feel like, 595 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: as a Latina librarian, we have a responsibility to continue 596 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: doing the work that she started. Shockingly, her books are 597 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 2: out of print right now, despite her being the earliest 598 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 2: known Afro Caribbean American writer, despite there being an award 599 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 2: in her name, And yeah, there are still three more 600 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 2: librarians on that list of cool librarians that I was handed. 601 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 2: So expect to be returning to this subject. But I 602 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 2: wanted to read some of her stories on book club, 603 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 2: but I haven't found a PDF of it yet. The 604 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 2: Internet Archive had one, but they're hacked right now. I 605 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 2: found one really short story and so fuck it, I'm 606 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 2: going to read it to you all. 607 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: Now, do you have a puppet. 608 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 2: I'll pretend to have a puppy. 609 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, the full experience. 610 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 2: You all should act as though I have a really 611 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 2: amazing puppet. 612 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay. 613 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 2: It's actually interesting that you talked about when you were 614 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 2: talking about folklore earlier, and we were talking about how 615 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 2: like indigenous folklore is perceived by others. Right, this story 616 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 2: is going to use the word Indian to describe the 617 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 2: people that's talking about, right, and it's gonna be describing 618 00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 2: indigenous people, But the American North American conception of race 619 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: isn't necessarily going to apply one to one to in 620 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 2: a Puerto Rican context. And like so it's like interesting 621 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: because I can't say as cleanly how it relates to 622 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 2: indigenous culture. Right. Basically, that's my way of saying, if 623 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 2: the story had been written by a white person, I 624 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 2: would be suspect of. 625 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: It, but it was not, gotcha. 626 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 2: The legend of the Hummingbird from Puerto Rico by POORA Belprey. 627 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: Between the towns of Khi and Cidra, far up in 628 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 2: the hills, there was once a small pool fed by 629 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 2: a waterfall that tumbled down the side of the mountain. 630 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: The pool was surrounded by pomarosa trees, and the Indians 631 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 2: used to call it Pamarosa Pool. It was the favorite 632 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 2: place of Alita, the daughter of an Indian chief, a 633 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 2: man of power and wealth among the people of the hills. 634 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: One day, when Alita had come to the pool to 635 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 2: rest after a long walk, a young Indian came there 636 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: to pick some fruit from the trees. Alita was surprised, 637 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 2: for he was not of her tribe. Yet he said 638 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 2: he was no stranger to the pool. This was where 639 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 2: he had first seen Alida, and he had often returned 640 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: since then to pick the fruit. Hoping to see her again, 641 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 2: he told her about himself to make her feel at home. 642 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: He confessed with honesty and frankness that he was a 643 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 2: member of the dreaded Carab tribe that had so often 644 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 2: attacked the island of Barenkan. As a young boy, he 645 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 2: had been left behind after one of those raids, and 646 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 2: he had stayed on the island ever since. Alida listened 647 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 2: closely to his story, and the two became friends. They 648 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 2: met again in the days that followed, and their friendship 649 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 2: grew stronger. Alida admired the young man's courage in living 650 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 2: among his enemies. She learned to call him by his 651 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 2: Carab name, Taru, and he called her Alida, just as 652 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 2: her own people did. Before long, their friendship had turned 653 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 2: into love. Their meetings by the pool were always brief. 654 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 2: Alida was afraid their secret might be discovered, and careful 655 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 2: though she was. There came a day when someone saw 656 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 2: them and told her father. Alida was forbidden to visit 657 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 2: the Pamrosa Pool, and to put an end to her 658 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: romance with the stranger, her father decided to marry her 659 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: to a man of his own. Choosing preparations for the 660 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: wedding started at once. Alita was torn with grief, and 661 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 2: one evening she cried out to her god, Oh Yuki, 662 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 2: U help me kill me, or do what you will 663 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 2: with me, but do not let me marry this man 664 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 2: whom I do not love. And the great God yukiyou 665 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 2: took pity on her and changed her into a delicate 666 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 2: red flower. Meanwhile, Taru, knowing nothing of Alita's sorrow, still 667 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 2: waited for her by the Pamerosa pool. Day after day 668 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 2: he waited. Sometimes he stayed there until a mantle of 669 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 2: stars was spread across the sky. One night, the moon 670 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 2: took pity on him, Taro. She called from her place 671 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 2: high above the stars, Oh, Taru, wait no longer for Alda, 672 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: your secret was made known, and Alita was to be 673 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 2: married to a man of her father's choosing. In her grief, 674 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: she called to her god Yukiyu. He heard her plea 675 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,280 Speaker 2: for help and changed her into a red flower. Ahi 676 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 2: Ahe cried, Taru, Oh Moon, what is the name of 677 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 2: the red flower? Only Yukayu knows that. The moon replied. 678 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 2: Then Taro called out, O, Yukayu, God of my Alida, 679 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 2: help me too, help me to find her. And just 680 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 2: as the Great God had heard Alida's plea, he listened 681 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 2: now to Tarou and decided to help him. There by 682 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 2: the Pomerosa pool, before the moon and the silent stars, 683 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 2: the Great God changed Taru into a small, many colored bird. 684 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 2: Fly Kalibri, and find your love among the flowers, he said. 685 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 2: Off went the Kalibri, flying swiftly, and as he flew, 686 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: his wings made a sweet humming sound. In the morning, 687 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 2: the Indians saw a new bird darting around among the flowers, 688 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 2: swift as an arrow and brilliant as a jewel. They 689 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: heard the humming of its wings, and in amazement they 690 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 2: saw it hover in the air over every blossom, kissing 691 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 2: the petals of the flowers with its long, slender bill. 692 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: They liked the new bird with the music in its wings, 693 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 2: and they called it humming bird. Ever since then, the 694 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 2: little many colored bird has hovered over every flower he finds, 695 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 2: but returns most often to the flowers that are red. 696 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 2: He is still looking, always looking for the one red 697 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 2: flower that will be his loss, Tolita. He has not 698 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 2: found her yet. That's the story. 699 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: All these do remind me of the indigenous tales. And 700 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 1: the god you were talking about is a Tano god, 701 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: which is of the gods of the Puerto Rican indigenous peoples. 702 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: I have a failing if we were able to dig 703 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: more into her ancestral understand she is probably a part 704 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: of that indigenous group, because that's they're from her area 705 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: as well, like they are from that area. So I 706 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: absolutely believe these are tales from her community. Yeah, which 707 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: is gorgeous, And I love that she was able to 708 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: preserve that and share that, because that's what we know 709 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: when it comes to like indigenous and like especially older 710 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: religious groups, is the is the stories of creation, of 711 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,439 Speaker 1: love in creation. It is so beautiful, and I love 712 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: that she preserved that so we could hear these stories 713 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: I know. 714 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 2: And I like, I want to find so many more 715 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 2: of them, and I guess I have to wait for 716 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 2: the Internet archive to be unhacked or I need to. 717 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 2: Like I found like some used versions of the books, 718 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 2: but they were like you know how Amazon. 719 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: Automotba level like yeah, yeah. 720 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 2: Like they're like price jacked up to two hundred and 721 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 2: fifty dollars or whatever, you know, right, and yeah, no, 722 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 2: I I find it fascinating, and I find it fascinating 723 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 2: that they're out of print, and you know, I I 724 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 2: hope someone does something about that, but right, especially because like, yeah, 725 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 2: I love reading the earliest versions of folk tales I 726 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 2: can find, but usually that means reading white interpretations of 727 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 2: folk tales and so reading not that. But the oldest 728 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 2: that I can find is like from the sweet Spot, 729 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 2: you know. 730 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,919 Speaker 1: Right, and on top of that, someone who heard it 731 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: from an area that she knew, who was familiar with 732 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: that that was her home. 733 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 734 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: Like one of the best parts to this is learning 735 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: about indigenous people that I didn't know anything about. I 736 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: know nothing about yuko U and Akabat god in itself 737 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: and which we love on our show. We love doing 738 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: like mythical goddesses and creatures and all of those, because 739 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: you know there's so much power behind that, yeah, and 740 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: the reason people believe in them. But not knowing that 741 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: obviously Puerto Rico, it makes sense to know there's an 742 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: indigenous group there, yeah, and community there that needs to 743 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: be preserved and their history should be preserved and deserved 744 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: to be preserved. Uh yeah, probably should be in power 745 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: whatever whatnot. But all of that to say is now, 746 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: like you brought this understanding through the talks of a library. 747 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: I love. I love the connectedness of it, I. 748 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 2: Know, and I love that it's like the work that 749 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 2: she did about keeping this stuff alive. And then like, 750 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 2: obviously language is an important part of I mean, obviously 751 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,320 Speaker 2: Spanish is in the indigenous language, but compared to English, 752 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 2: for an immigrant community, it's like really important to have 753 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 2: Stuffy specifically, Yeah, just like making the library a space 754 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: that's actually for the communities as part of I just 755 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 2: I was really impressed by her story, and I like, 756 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 2: and it's a lot of stuff that I take for granted, 757 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 2: like even the story about the origin of libraries. I 758 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 2: had just been like, right, oh, yeah, of course a 759 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 2: country has to a country has to have roads. A 760 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,359 Speaker 2: country has to have public lending libraries, otherwise it's not 761 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,720 Speaker 2: really a country, is it. And it's like, well, actually, uh, 762 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 2: you know, we're pretty new to having them. 763 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: Like, it's also a story about understanding how important that 764 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: history is and librarians are and what they bring to 765 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: a community as we're in one of the worst states 766 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: of for librarians and libraries and banned books, and a 767 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,760 Speaker 1: reminder of like, like how important these stories are, Yeah, 768 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: that so many cannot understand because culturally we should be 769 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: able to learn about these things, and we people should 770 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,800 Speaker 1: know about these groups of people who have always existed, 771 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 1: existed before them, you know, for us. So all of 772 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 1: that is beautiful, as well as the fact that you know, 773 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: I love things like the little libraries. You know that 774 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: you see the look a birdhouse looking, Yeah, libraries. But 775 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: in order to kind of take back control from those 776 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: who are trying to ban books and trying to like 777 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: make libraries the enemies somehow, when stories like these are 778 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: so important and then people like her brought traditions and 779 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 1: tell folklore to life to children who didn't understand or 780 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: maybe for a long time, especially you know, you know, 781 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: as a person who immigrated to the US was taught 782 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 1: to learn what learn US culture and white culture, essentially 783 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: to truly understand the country if you want to be 784 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: a citizen, instead of understanding that their culture was just 785 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,919 Speaker 1: as important to the makeup of this area, specifically New 786 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,839 Speaker 1: Yorkers who are from Puerto Rico and children who may 787 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: have been born in New York but their families are 788 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: from Puerto Rico and then being able to learn about 789 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,280 Speaker 1: their culture and to appreciate their own culture. Like, wow, 790 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: she did so much in such an early time. Like 791 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: obviously I'm very excited. Yeah, you opened up these big 792 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: box and I'm like, oh my god, I love everything 793 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: about this, including the libraries. 794 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. And it's just like I want to 795 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 2: fly on the wall. That stuff so bad, you know, 796 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 2: Like and even it ties into what you're saying just 797 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 2: now ties into how one of the problems with the 798 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 2: early libraries, including you know, some of the women's ones 799 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 2: and the free black ones and stuff, is they fell 800 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 2: into this idea that like this is for the improvement 801 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 2: of people by reading philosophy and stuff. And I'll read 802 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 2: some philosophy here and there. Right, I'm not I get it. 803 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 2: I'm I think that that stuff matters. But this idea 804 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 2: that fiction is distinct as this like lesser thing is 805 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 2: something that we're finally starting to break away from. And 806 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 2: I think part of the way that we break away 807 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 2: from it is exactly what you're talking about about, how 808 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 2: these stories and this idea of culture, like stories are 809 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 2: how you preserve culture in a lot of ways, and 810 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 2: so like stories matter, fiction matters just as much, you know. Yeah, 811 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 2: And I love I just think libraries are cool. I've 812 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 2: already spoken it too so far on this tour, and 813 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 2: like I can't wait to speak at more of them. 814 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah. 815 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,760 Speaker 1: One of my favorite things. Again, like I will continue 816 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: to go to the different cities or different places and 817 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: find libraries. Went to New York and we went to 818 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: the library immediately, we explored everything. But thank you. I 819 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: was gonna say one of the two things. One, I 820 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: love that story. I love being able to hear her 821 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: writing because it is It's exactly right, you know, when 822 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: you thirst for a cultural like folklore, that is exactly 823 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: what I would like to hear. Like that was perfectly done, 824 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: and you telling it was so perfectly like, Yeah, obviously 825 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: Margaret is a writer. She's definitely a storyteller here. It 826 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,439 Speaker 1: is like being able to hear it through you. Both 827 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: of those were shows, kiss, so thank you for sharing 828 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: with me. 829 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, well, thanks for coming on to my 830 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,919 Speaker 2: episode about libraries. There's going to be more of them. 831 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 2: And yeah, if people want to hear more stories about 832 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 2: stuff that their mom never told them and then accidentally 833 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 2: ask really personal questions that you don't intend to ask, 834 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 2: where can they do that? 835 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,839 Speaker 1: Well, we do talk a lot about our trauma as 836 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: in fact, I started Stuff Mom Never Told You by 837 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: talking about the METO movement and the trauma. So there 838 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: you go. But that Stuff Mom Never Told You you 839 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: can listen to us wherever you listen to your podcast. 840 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: We have twelve years worth of episodes. So so if you 841 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: want to go listen to all the different hosts that's 842 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,280 Speaker 1: been there, historical context, you want to hear our reactions 843 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: to like different elections, which is really still stinged, you 844 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 1: can do that as well. We also have a book 845 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 1: and it's called Stuff Mom Never Told You. Actually at libraries, 846 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 1: we were able to find them that the Seattle library 847 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 1: and a New York library cool Boston who he hadn't 848 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,799 Speaker 1: writen the book yet, so if you want to go 849 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: check it out at the library. 850 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 2: Is there, Yeah, And if it's not, you should request it. 851 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Please. Also you can find me on McVeigh sam 852 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 1: Instagram for my doggie pictures. 853 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 2: That is what Instagram is for as far as I'm 854 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 2: concerned exactly. Well, if you want to find me on tour, 855 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 2: you can look at my Instagram or my substack and 856 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 2: I'll be posting tour dates. And if you don't live 857 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 2: in the US, you can tell me that. You could 858 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 2: be like, why aren't you coming to where I live? 859 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,960 Speaker 2: And then the answer is the aforementioned dog. And on 860 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 2: some level I'm aware that I could probably find someone 861 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 2: to watch my dog for long enough to go to 862 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,359 Speaker 2: a different country, But why would I want to. I 863 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 2: like my dog more than I like you, dear listener, 864 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,279 Speaker 2: And that's not even a slight against you. It's just 865 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 2: how much I like my dog. But that's unrelated. And 866 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 2: also I have a book out called The Sapling Cage, 867 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 2: just what I'm a tour about, and you should go 868 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 2: read it is fiction. I have a bunch of other 869 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,399 Speaker 2: books too, including the most entertainingly titled is Escape from 870 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 2: Insul Island, So you can go read that if you want, 871 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 2: and you could also listen to Cooler Zone Media because 872 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 2: nothing would be funnier than watching me complain about ads 873 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 2: and then there's no ads and wouldn't that be funny? 874 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,439 Speaker 2: And also you can listen to all the cool zone 875 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 2: media podcasts that way, including awful lot of shows including Wait, 876 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 2: there's one I really liked recently. Oh, there's a really 877 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,400 Speaker 2: good it could happen here about the future of coffee 878 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 2: done by Prop who does hood politics with Prop and 879 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,880 Speaker 2: it is like one of the best encapsulations of climate 880 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,839 Speaker 2: crisis and also how capitalism and extractive practices work, and 881 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 2: also how cooperativism. It was just like, I don't even 882 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:40,760 Speaker 2: drink coffee. 883 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,000 Speaker 1: It's also super funny. 884 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been long holding that Prop is my favorite 885 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,399 Speaker 2: explain current events person in my life. He starts off 886 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 2: the episode by just singing a song and yeah, totally, 887 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,240 Speaker 2: so you get past that part. 888 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that always throws me off when host starts singing 889 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,399 Speaker 1: or rapping. I'm like, what the what's happening? I'm never prepared. Yeah, 890 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: but he's like a professional rapper. Yeah, Like, oh, I'm 891 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,839 Speaker 1: just good. It's still stocking though to see it live, 892 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: Like if I'm on MIC or somebody. 893 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I love it. But stay for the stay 894 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 2: for the vibes, Stay for the vibes, and that's it. 895 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 2: We're here at the end of the show. 896 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 1: Hi. Hi. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a 897 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool 898 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,839 Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website folzonemedia dot com, or check 899 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,240 Speaker 1: us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 900 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.