WEBVTT - Part Four: Operation Nemesis and Armenian Resistance to Genocide 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:02.880 Cool Zone Media. 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:07.280 Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, your 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.639 weekly reminder that when there's bad stuff, there's good people 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.079 trying to not do the bad with the good and 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.000 the all the words that work together. I'm your host, 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.080 Margaret Giljoy, and my guest is James Hi. 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.720 James, Hello. I'm excited to be here for the final 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.640 and in a series of episodes, I know this is 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:26.599 gonna be the one with I mean, actually there's been 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:28.960 fun stuff in all of it. I tried to pace 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:32.360 it that way, you know, yeah. But here to help 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:37.600 produce it is Ian Hi Ian, Hey, Magbine, Hey, James, Hi. 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:37.840 Ian. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:40.360 Our audio engineer is Daniel. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:40.599 Hi. 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:45.200 Daniel, Hi, Daniel. Ian's just trying to make us wait, 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:51.920 Hi Daniel, thank you. Sorry. Just cut Margaret speaking, Just 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:53.479 be like a ten second silence. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.440 Our theme music was written for us by Unwoman and 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.000 this is part four of our four part are about 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.400 resistance by Armenian folks to the genocide of the aforementioned 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:11.720 Armenian folks and where we last left our heroes, they 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.320 had just been through one and a half to two 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.360 genocides depending on how you count it, and a world war, 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:22.880 and things were rough. But at least a guy got shot. 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:26.560 I had a dream last night where I was like, 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:28.720 after the apocalypse, hanging out with a bunch of like 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.240 anarcho pacifists who were all like early Aughts style like 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:33.280 food and out bombs, kind. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.360 Of hippie punks. M h, I'm familiar. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:37.199 And I was like trying to talk to them about 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.679 how pacifism was working for them in the apocalypse, and 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.120 at one point one of them got caught, like stealing 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:43.920 a bunch of diesel fuel from like a bunch of 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.880 like let's say, chuds, and so he was like, well, 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:48.440 I guess I'm just gonna lay down and let them 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:49.880 kick me for a while until they get over it, 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.120 and then I'll try to be their friend. And in 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.160 the dream I was like, this is so stressful. 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:57.320 Yeah, that is a stressful scenario. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:02.600 Yeah. Anyway that it was some kind of subconscious being like, hey, 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:04.480 you're reading about a lot of heavy shit right now, 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:11.880 so let's see. Most cliff notes versions of this history 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:15.360 sort of treat the young Turks like they were done 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.560 after World War One, that their leaders had scattered to 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.160 the wind, and now they're leading quiet lives, no longer 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:26.880 able to hurt anyone, This is not true. The exiled 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.480 leaders were still coordinating Turkish nationalism in Turkey. There was 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.880 some conflict between them and like a general who was 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:34.720 still in Turkey, but like, we're not gonna get into that. 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:40.240 An armed rebellion started, a counter government was taking territory everywhere. 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.680 The exiled leaders were also into creating a pan Islamic 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.080 alliance to fight Russia and the West. Either of you 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.080 ever heard of pan Turanism? 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.160 No, I didn't think, like Persian. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:59.280 So it's some wacky race science thing called pan Turanism, 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.960 which it is basically like, hey, there's this cool secret 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.160 master race that includes Turks and Arabs and Mongols and 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:08.440 also Finns and Hungarians. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.720 Of course a natural combination of peoples. 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:18.640 There is some like language uralic stuff, but it's clearly 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.560 culturally distinct areas and like trying to harken back to 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.240 some like it's like the equivalent of being like the 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.040 Nazis and caring about arianism, but like meaning it in 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.200 a completely different way and meaning like literally from whatever. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.079 I don't know about this shit. Yeah, anyway, the Nazis 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.000 did like to join themselves to ancient Greeks a lot. 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.880 I think that's more of a cultural thing than a yeah. 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.680 And so they're basically trying to come up with this 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.920 like pan, whoever we can get well. Different of the 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:46.800 leaders they actually kind of all hated each other at 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.120 this point, but they all had different ways that they 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.440 wanted to do it. The Exile leaders are still doing 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.680 their thing, and the ARF leadership was like, well, no 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:57.680 one got punished by the state. Besides, like a couple 0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.960 of people like, how are we going to do this? 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.240 And someone at the ARF's ninth General Congress in nineteen 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.280 nineteen was like, or do we just kill them all? 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:09.480 Or we just find out where they live and then 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:14.880 shoot them intreasable? And this wasn't actually super popular when 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.880 it was first recommended. Overall, folks were more on the like, 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.760 I think our goal is to collectively not die. It's 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.040 the old is living well the best revenge? Or is 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.440 shooting a man in the street the best revenge conundrum? 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:28.960 Yeah? Tailor's oldest time. 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:29.280 Yeah. 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:31.040 Yeah. 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:32.920 And so they did it the way that I think 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.640 you should deal with this kind of impasse, and. 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.400 They went for both. Yeah. 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.440 A small group with Garo, our bank occupier guy who 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.440 showed up a bunch of times as a politician. Later, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.960 Garo ends up in charge of this quote special mission, 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:52.599 the Bullets into Brains mission. They wrote up lists of targets. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:53.320 Some of the lists. 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.640 We have a bunch of the different lists or history does. 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:56.600 I don't have them. 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:58.720 That would be cool because on media should give us 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.120 budget to buy weird history artifacts and we can have 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:02.600 a museum of cool people. 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.120 Oh yeah, I've been buying them with a budget that 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.240 they pay me. But that's just me being the way 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.720 to and died with money. I bought a Spanish Civil 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:15.600 War Republic stamp. Oh nice, that's pretty cool. Which one? Oh, 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.600 I don't remember. It's in my basement. I got to 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:19.480 go look at it. I have a bad memory, sick. Yeah, 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:21.600 they used them to raise funds a lot. They would 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.839 sell them in other countries too, like oh cool, Yeah, 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:28.039 I bought a Spanish Civil War Republic rifle. That's cool. 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.560 That would be more what I would want, But you know, 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.640 it's pretty cool. I'll send you my little There are 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.320 some things you can look for, Margaret, and then you 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.040 can go in Gumbroker for hours, and then you can 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:38.880 get one over from the chid. He doesn't know what 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:39.480 he's selling. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.520 My budget currently is at the Stamp Variety. There was 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:45.599 like recently a friend of mine was working for a 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.800 bookseller who had like a first edition I think it 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:50.719 was a Living My Life by Emma Goldman with like 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.800 a long inscription from Emma Goldman in the front. Oh wow, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.960 and like I wanted it really badly, but it was 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:01.799 in the many thousands dollars category. And I'm into history, 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:03.479 but I feel like that level of history. I'm like, 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.240 I actually think what Emma Goldman would want me to 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.839 do is give that money to food, not bombs, you know, yeah. 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:09.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll be directly. 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.680 Yeah yeah, Like if I was a museum, I would 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.520 talk about this differently, right, My personal collection doesn't need. 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.680 That, no, yeah, yeah. These things should come to you 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.960 as gifts from the friends. 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.960 Yeah, much like the gifts of bullets that they wanted 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.640 to insert directly into the brains at very high speed 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.160 of the people who had That's my transition back into 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.600 where I was at. So they put up gotually these 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.520 lists of names, and this included, of course the three Pashas, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.320 plus a bunch of commanders, administrators, and the leaders of 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:44.560 that special organization that had done so much of the 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:50.040 killing number one target though, that's Talat Pasha, the Grand Vizier. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.799 In nineteen twenty in Boston, the Arf Regional Conference christened 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.760 the whole thing Operation Nemesis because they're not a fucking 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:00.680 name in operation. 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.920 Yeah. Kind of straight out of Massachusetts as well. I'd 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:08.240 love to see it, yeah, yeah, real Megachusetts moment. It's 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.200 fun because, like there's so many different. 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:12.760 Ways that people tell this story, and one of them 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:17.520 is like, wow, Armenian exiles who weren't even there got 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.800 together and it was just some middle class Americans, and 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.320 it like divorces them from the political lineage that they 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.240 were part of. But there's still like a little bit 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.040 of truth to it, right, you know, You've got these 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.600 like immigrants and children of immigrants getting together in New 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:32.720 England to be like, all right, let's pull our money 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.160 together with our middle class jobs and do this. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.360 You know. Yeah, I think it may well have still 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.120 been on the receiving end of bigotry for who they were, right, Like, 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.720 that's definitely not inconceivable in early twentieth century America. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.080 It's true, although the stuff that I've read about presents 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.960 them as like being fairly attempted to integrate but I 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:55.920 do not know. I've also read more from like the 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.080 perspective of like their children, you know. 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:04.440 Okay, yeah, yeah, who is more Americanized in that second generation? Yeah. 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.800 The organizers of Operation Nemesis included a former editor of 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.960 a newspaper, an accountant in Syracuse, New York, and Garro 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.560 himself plus another general with twenty years of experience. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.280 Is that the first accountant you've ever had on the podcast, Margaret? 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:19.520 It might be. 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.000 And it's cool because there's actually you can listen to 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.240 some of the other podcasts that are worth listening to. 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.120 There's an NPR did one where it's like the accountant's 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.280 like grandkid was going through his like stuff after he 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.319 died and found all of the documents of Operation Nemesis 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.319 and had never heard of it. Oh, he didn't tell anyone, 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:39.160 His wife didn't know. 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:39.839 He kept it. 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:44.080 The secret of running this thing to his grave incredible. 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.200 You'd think there'd be some temptation, like on the on 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.520 your deathbed if that person died in that way, to 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.520 be like, oh, by the way, yeah, we got him back. 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:53.000 Yeah that was me. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:54.640 I'm a secret spy. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.080 Yeah, yeah, the top up sec from that guy. 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.320 I know, I wouldn't last more than I'd be like 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.240 calling my lawyer every week, be like, what do you 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.240 think that the Statute of Limitations is on international conspiracies 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:07.160 digital heads of state? 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:09.319 Yeah, I want to tweet it. Let me tweet it. 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:14.040 Yeah, all right, what if I go to Cuba, first. 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.280 City in Venezuela loggi on posting something and then wondering 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.559 what to do with the rest of your life? Yeah, totally. 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:22.760 And that's how you know I haven't gotten up too much. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.440 All my petty crime is like in the stuff I 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.079 write about, you know, like and then I was out 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.920 of protest wearing all black. Anyway, So the Operation Nemesis 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.560 was financed by middle class Armenian Americans who may or 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:35.360 may not have known. 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:36.240 Where their money is going. 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.520 So the light way that people tell this story is 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.600 they talk about it as a story of revenge, and like, 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.880 that's true. It was vengeance, right, it's called Operation Nemesis. Well, 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.840 Nemesis doesn't actually mean revenge, right, Nemesis is actually a 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:55.319 more accurate word. It was a specific and important political 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.720 action that needed to take place. The people that they 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.320 were going to kill were actively working to further the 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:06.319 destruction of the Armenian people still, and maybe most importantly 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.400 in terms of its impact, was the attempt to restore 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.880 pride to the Armenian people. You will not survive ordering 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:15.960 our genocide. The thing that's so inspiring to me about 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:17.920 the story is how it's like, yeah, it's your wild 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.640 eyed revolutionaries that are part of a grew out of 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.880 libertarian socialist democratic socialist movement. And it's your middle class 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.120 Armenian American accountants, and it's your kind of disabled soldiers 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.559 who have visions, all working together, all deeply focused on 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:36.200 one mission that they pulled off against all odds. But 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.360 there's also another take if you zoom out even further, 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:40.679 and I'm going to get into it a little bit 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.800 more about like geopolitics and all of it. The Western 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.840 powers in Russia let it happen and nudged it along. 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.880 They were happy to let Armenians do their dirty work. 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.079 But first they've got this whole plan. Now they've got 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.840 Operation Nemesis. They have a list. Now they need volunteers, 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.280 shortage of volunteers. The ads they put out in the 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:07.320 newspapers were like bachelor's only, because they're like, this is 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.360 a one way trip. We're asking you to go on, 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:11.240 you might die. 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.080 Yeah, but what did the ad say though, and they 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:18.280 just wanted hitman bachelor's only need apply. I think they 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.040 were not like hit Man needed. 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.600 I think it was a little bit like, hey, Armenian exiles, 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.959 like come apply for some important stuff. But like if 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.400 it says bachelor's only, it is like a wink, wing, nudge, nudge, 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.200 we're giving you a gun and pointing you you know. 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.680 Yeah, yeah, it's not like you're going to be an accountant. Yeah. 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.360 I actually think a lot of their op sec relied 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:42.199 on the fact that no one spoke Armenian. 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.120 They have built in encryption. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:47.480 Yeah, well, I mean later we'll talk about the encryption 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.439 they actually used. But the fact that Armenian was like 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.360 it allowed them to get away with even more I think, right. Yeah, 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.800 Tillarian did not know about Operation Nemesis at first. He's 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.839 a there in Constantinople and so he's like, all right, 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.240 I figured it out. We should kill all of them, 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.080 and I should find rich Armenians to fund it. He 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.320 has basically tried a one man Operation Nemesis. He is 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:16.400 trying to build a parallel organization right because his mother 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.360 keeps coming to him in his dreams and is like, hey, 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:22.800 what's up, what are you doing? Yeah, you really got 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:24.239 time to play video games. 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.480 Very early, other video games. Yeah. Did he know at 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.880 this point did his family where they murdered in the genocide? Like, 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:33.800 so his father survived. 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.199 I'm a little bit confused because some of the way 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.000 that people write about it, they write about his visions 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.439 as if they're true, or like as if they're like literal, 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.559 Like I'm not quite sure whether his brother survived. I'm 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.960 under the impression that his family died, Okay, Yeah, And 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.640 like I I don't know, and I'm a little bit 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.600 annoyed that I don't know is the answer to that? Yeah, 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.280 Like at what point he was like sure they were 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:56.160 gone or what? 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.480 Yeah, Well that's part of the thing, isn't it. Like 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.880 I'm sure it takes away that closure in certainty totally. 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.199 But he might have had it, and I just might 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:05.640 not have read about it, even though I like kind 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.040 of tried to look a bit, you know. Yeah, for sure. 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.080 So he's going around and he's like trying to find 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.760 people to finance him in Constantinople, and then eventually he 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:15.640 moves to Paris, which is a classic place to go 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.600 bum around. He worked as a cobbler. He spent all 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.800 of his time fantasizing about how to kill Talat Pasha. 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.720 He didn't hang out with folks, He barely ate. All 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.640 he thought about was this and then basically Nemesis, without 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.560 telling him why, they sent him a telegram and a 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.520 ticket to Boston, plus a visa and passport in his name. 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.800 It just rolls up in the post one day, like 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.120 I think someone comes and gives it to him, okay, 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:42.960 because they have like a bunch of diplomats and shit 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.360 like that are part of Operation Nemesis, right, and so 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.360 they like have gotten him all the paperwork. It's not 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.040 even like I mean it's forged and that he didn't 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.960 apply for it, right, but it's like real paperwork. And 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.280 they've picked him to kill their number one enemy because 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.600 he's shown such initiative already and he seems to be 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:02.920 very focused and committed. All the other assassinations Nemesis wanted quiet. 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.160 This one they wanted done in public, and they wanted 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.280 the assassin to turn himself in so that he could 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.480 stand trial. This is how the Armenians would make their 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:12.360 case to the world. 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:15.679 And so folks met him in New York as soon 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.079 as he gets off the boat and they help him 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.400 get on a train to Boston. He doesn't like any 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.080 of these people. They're all like having fun, right, you know. 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:26.400 And he's just like eyes on the prize. 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.000 Yeah, he's like, what the fuck is wrong with everyone? 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:31.960 They pick him up in Boston, they drive him to 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.560 the newspaper. Tullarian's grouchy. Everyone's talking casually about the whole thing. 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.280 He's just grim and driven. And eventually he meets people 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.800 where he's he meets Garro right, and he's like, oh, okay, 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:47.760 they have real revolutionaries here, right, They're serious. He wasn't 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.640 much of a spy. He was a soldier. He wrote 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.720 in his journal about how he wanted to grab people 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.160 and say to them, tell me where he is. I 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.960 am a weapon. Aimy, which is a direct quote, and 0:14:59.040 --> 0:14:59.920 it goes hard. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.480 Yeah, yeah, the just go hard. So they aimed him. 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:05.920 They put him on a steamship back to Paris, then 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.720 to Geneva, where arf got in paper saying he was Persian, 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.960 and sent him to Berlin with a student visa, which 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.680 is where they were pretty sure Talt was living. His 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.840 name was now Simon Tavicien a bunch of the genocidal 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.520 fuckers were in Berlin. Actually, and when I say it's 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.640 like this big organization we're actually gonna talk about at 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.040 the end, it's about ten assassins and twelve spies and 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.160 a few other people, and they work in seven countries. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.440 It's like, really impressive, honestly what they did with so 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:31.960 few people. 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.360 Yeah, no, that's genuinely impressive. Yeah. 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:40.040 So Nemesis, including Tellurian, found a reasonably high up guy 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.920 pretty soon, and Tilarian was like, I should just kill 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:45.880 that guy. But then he's like, no, I need to 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:47.920 catch the bigger fish, right, you know, I need to 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.040 hold on to this thing. And the young Turks had 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.080 gone to Berlin because they had stashed a bunch of 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.480 gold and Swiss and German banks and they wanted access 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.320 to it. Yeah, and plus they couldn't go to France 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.680 because there's a ton of Armenians there and they're like, well, 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.280 definitely recognized and killed in France, and the UK won't 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.400 have them. And the Balkans were a bad place to 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.320 be Muslim, so a lot of them went to Berlin. 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.040 Someone went to Russia. We'll talk about that. The young 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.160 Turks were arguing about how to move forward. Enver Pasha, 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.280 for example, he was in with the Soviets and wanted 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.840 to work with them in return for power, waiting to 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.200 bring the Islamic countries into the Soviet sphere. The Soviets 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.400 were arming the Turkish nationalists who were fighting against the 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.560 British occupation. It's a lot wanted to ally with the British, 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.000 who were a capitalist nation who probably sold advertisements in 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.120 the middle of history lessons you'd probably go to you 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:37.720 went to university. I have no idea if you went 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:39.760 to university in Britain, but I'm sure they interrupted their 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.000 lectures to sell you bis skits. 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:49.479 Yeah, very very common. Yeah, tea, thank you, bask ma, mite, crumpets. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:54.760 Those the four cardinal directions of British nests. Yeah, and 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:59.280 that's what we're advertised by is big crumpet. I don't 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.040 know what a crumpet is. You don't know what a 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.320 crump it is? Oh great? Is it what I would 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:03.960 call a biscuit? 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:05.040 No? 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.520 No, no, okay, so no biscuits, cookie, Yes, that's correct, 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.000 it's crump at a scone. No, No, crumpet is like 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.520 a bread product, but the top is all bubbly. The 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.360 closest analogy is like a half English muffin, I think. 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.040 But it's good because the top is all bubbly, so 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:20.600 it doesn't have like a crust on the top. So 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.399 when you butter it, or you use your vegan substitute 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:27.200 butter in our case, it sinks into the little bubbles, 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.240 so it gets really buttery. That actually sounds really good. 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:32.960 They're really good. Yeah, I think trade Joe sometimes has 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:34.400 him in America. 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.840 Yeah, okay, I'll give a crump at a chance and 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.760 I'll toast you as I sorry, I know that it's 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.600 really annoying. I was only easy ins because the UK 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:55.639 came up and the thing and anyway, here's ads and 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.960 we're back, and you missed a long conversation where James 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.919 was defending the fact that the first floor is the 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:02.480 second one. 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.080 Yeah, that is correct. I am actually a person who 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.080 very often gets lost on lifts still after fifteen years 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.800 and is God's saken country. It is one of the 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:14.679 one of the ways in which I have failed to 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:15.920 integrate as a migrant. 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.199 It's like the one thing that I'll like try and 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.679 claim American supremacy on is the counting of floors. And 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.320 I actually I wonder if people only care about it 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:25.720 so deeply because we get lost. 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.520 You know, it impacts my quality of life. So yeah, 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.639 it's something that I've become like a I refuse to 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.280 compromise on it. But where do you go to Spain, Margaret, 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.639 and you have half floors? Oh my god, I've been 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.879 to Spain, but I like, I didn't run across have floors. 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.560 If you ever lived in a really shitty apartment building 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.639 in Spain, they have floors. Yeah, Like when you go 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.480 in the lift, instead of having a door, it's just 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.800 like a mesh screen that you pull across. So like 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:52.800 if you wanted to lose a limb at any point, 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:54.320 you could just stick it out there and it would 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:55.280 be gone. Yeah. 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.960 Yeah, I've been in the industrial elevators in the US 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.240 or sometimes like that, like old warehouses and stuff. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.680 Yeah yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it's like, except these 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.480 ones are like the size of a coffin. Yeah. 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.720 That's how I feel about all elevators to me, is 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.240 that they are all coffins. Oh, which is part of 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.560 why everything's Oh I'm so American. I'm like everything's so 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.680 small in Europe. I feel so constrained at all times. 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.520 Yeah, it is funny to watch American people that direct 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.639 with European things, whereas I am like, everything is so 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.840 massive in America. Why is it this big? Yeah, what's 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.040 going on? It's still funny to my family will come 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.160 here like fifteen years later and just be like, why 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.800 are there so many milks? That's fair, that's the thing. Actually, 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.919