1
00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,836
Speaker 1: Pushkin. James Fauntleroy is one of the most prolific pop

2
00:00:22,876 --> 00:00:26,516
Speaker 1: songwriters of the last fifteen years. Some of his most

3
00:00:26,516 --> 00:00:31,356
Speaker 1: prized placements include songs written for Beyonce, Rihanna, Justin, Timberlake,

4
00:00:31,356 --> 00:00:35,476
Speaker 1: Bruno mars In, so many others. He's also contributed background

5
00:00:35,556 --> 00:00:38,556
Speaker 1: vocals to songs by Travis Scott, Jay Z, and his

6
00:00:38,716 --> 00:00:42,916
Speaker 1: longtime friend the late Nimsey Hustle. Similar to his music

7
00:00:42,956 --> 00:00:47,716
Speaker 1: industry idol and mentor Babyface, James Fauntleroy is also an

8
00:00:47,836 --> 00:00:50,676
Speaker 1: artist in his own right. His own songs, that are

9
00:00:50,716 --> 00:00:53,596
Speaker 1: best described as a really innovative take on alt R

10
00:00:53,636 --> 00:00:57,276
Speaker 1: and B have lived on streaming platforms for the last decade,

11
00:00:57,596 --> 00:01:01,356
Speaker 1: but in December he finally released his first official debut album,

12
00:01:01,636 --> 00:01:04,756
Speaker 1: The Warmest Winter Ever, a Christmas album that's put through

13
00:01:04,836 --> 00:01:08,276
Speaker 1: the font Leroy filter. On today's episode, I talked to

14
00:01:08,316 --> 00:01:11,316
Speaker 1: James Fauntleroy about why he decided to drop his debut

15
00:01:11,396 --> 00:01:15,156
Speaker 1: album well over a decade into his career. He also

16
00:01:15,196 --> 00:01:17,756
Speaker 1: explains how hundreds of his songs were stolen and posted

17
00:01:17,796 --> 00:01:21,396
Speaker 1: online by international hackers, and why he considers both weird

18
00:01:21,396 --> 00:01:24,756
Speaker 1: Al Yankovic and John Mayer among some of his biggest

19
00:01:24,956 --> 00:01:31,556
Speaker 1: musical influences. This is broken record liner notes to the

20
00:01:31,556 --> 00:01:36,836
Speaker 1: digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with James Fauntleroy,

21
00:01:37,756 --> 00:01:38,236
Speaker 1: little man.

22
00:01:38,716 --> 00:01:40,756
Speaker 2: I mean, too, what's that?

23
00:01:40,876 --> 00:01:41,356
Speaker 1: I through?

24
00:01:41,716 --> 00:01:43,356
Speaker 2: Yeah, my first album came out today?

25
00:01:43,716 --> 00:01:44,196
Speaker 1: Your album?

26
00:01:44,236 --> 00:01:46,396
Speaker 3: I know, man, come on dog, this is this is it?

27
00:01:46,636 --> 00:01:49,556
Speaker 2: So that's nice? And then my first the last album

28
00:01:49,636 --> 00:01:51,876
Speaker 2: for that was not my album, but it got nominated.

29
00:01:51,916 --> 00:01:52,516
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure you know.

30
00:01:52,676 --> 00:01:54,956
Speaker 1: Yeah, the EP with with with Terrists, that's right.

31
00:01:54,996 --> 00:01:58,036
Speaker 2: So I'm going to sing one of those songs today.

32
00:01:58,396 --> 00:01:59,596
Speaker 1: You nervous about it?

33
00:02:00,196 --> 00:02:04,996
Speaker 2: No, I that's hard for me to feel nervousness. That's

34
00:02:05,036 --> 00:02:08,076
Speaker 2: always been like that. It's hard to feel nervousness and

35
00:02:08,156 --> 00:02:13,916
Speaker 2: also excitement, like since a kid, even yeah, I don't know,

36
00:02:13,996 --> 00:02:16,116
Speaker 2: there's always been like that. Always just been like fuck it,

37
00:02:17,436 --> 00:02:22,036
Speaker 2: getting on stages and talking and doing speeches and know whatever.

38
00:02:22,956 --> 00:02:24,876
Speaker 1: If you don't feel you have nervousness, how do you

39
00:02:24,916 --> 00:02:27,116
Speaker 1: deal with Not that you've experienced a lot of it,

40
00:02:27,156 --> 00:02:29,116
Speaker 1: but how do you deal with any even small level

41
00:02:29,156 --> 00:02:32,196
Speaker 1: of not even failure. I guess it's something not going.

42
00:02:32,036 --> 00:02:37,716
Speaker 2: On experienced exponential amounts of failure. Rejection, disappointment because that's

43
00:02:37,836 --> 00:02:43,516
Speaker 2: music business. It sounds like good podcast stuff, but I

44
00:02:43,556 --> 00:02:46,916
Speaker 2: think that it helps in that sense, because you have

45
00:02:47,036 --> 00:02:51,996
Speaker 2: to be some type of insane to continue to do

46
00:02:52,076 --> 00:02:55,676
Speaker 2: anything after you've been told no, I'm seven.

47
00:02:55,556 --> 00:02:58,756
Speaker 1: Hundred for me. I've only recently gotten to the point

48
00:02:58,916 --> 00:03:01,796
Speaker 1: of where I was just just fuck it, you know

49
00:03:01,836 --> 00:03:04,516
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like people used to say that, like

50
00:03:04,596 --> 00:03:06,956
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like or that Cat Williams

51
00:03:06,996 --> 00:03:08,436
Speaker 1: bit back in the day of just you know your

52
00:03:08,436 --> 00:03:09,916
Speaker 1: a little fucking well.

53
00:03:09,956 --> 00:03:15,276
Speaker 2: That's probably because a lot of artists have like tough lives.

54
00:03:15,436 --> 00:03:17,836
Speaker 2: So my life was so rough before I started doing this,

55
00:03:17,876 --> 00:03:19,396
Speaker 2: I didn't even notice it was a thing you could do.

56
00:03:20,156 --> 00:03:23,236
Speaker 1: Man, So before the music industry, you sh your life

57
00:03:23,276 --> 00:03:24,636
Speaker 1: was tough. It was crazy.

58
00:03:25,076 --> 00:03:26,956
Speaker 2: It was crazy on multiple levels.

59
00:03:28,036 --> 00:03:30,036
Speaker 1: When you look back, what do you what do you see?

60
00:03:31,276 --> 00:03:35,036
Speaker 2: I see somebody that ended up being really super lucky,

61
00:03:35,436 --> 00:03:38,596
Speaker 2: just general lucky, also l the luck of being exposed

62
00:03:38,636 --> 00:03:43,396
Speaker 2: to different identities and possibilities. So yesterday I met with

63
00:03:43,436 --> 00:03:46,756
Speaker 2: the Department of Corrections, which was funny cause the first

64
00:03:46,876 --> 00:03:50,756
Speaker 2: cause I'm doing a pilot program for like juvenile probation

65
00:03:52,516 --> 00:03:55,236
Speaker 2: kids and shit, and the lady was like, just so

66
00:03:55,316 --> 00:03:57,276
Speaker 2: you know, these kids are dangerous, and I just started

67
00:03:57,356 --> 00:04:03,276
Speaker 2: laughing cause I was like, lady, I'm dangerous. I'm not

68
00:04:03,316 --> 00:04:05,836
Speaker 2: scared of these kids. You know, I know what their

69
00:04:05,876 --> 00:04:07,796
Speaker 2: lives are, like, I know why they cause I had

70
00:04:07,836 --> 00:04:11,196
Speaker 2: the same experience. It was like all ds and f's

71
00:04:11,196 --> 00:04:12,796
Speaker 2: for the entire time I was in school. Which is

72
00:04:12,796 --> 00:04:15,276
Speaker 2: so funny because I'm such I'm so such an intellectual

73
00:04:15,356 --> 00:04:17,676
Speaker 2: that it's almost like, you know what I mean, like.

74
00:04:18,196 --> 00:04:20,436
Speaker 1: You damn yourself identify as a nerd right.

75
00:04:20,356 --> 00:04:22,836
Speaker 2: Like, oh not damn near it. I mean, I'm wearing

76
00:04:22,876 --> 00:04:28,876
Speaker 2: a Pokemon diamond chain. But yeah, I've been thirty modeling

77
00:04:28,916 --> 00:04:31,476
Speaker 2: for ten years. I'm always trying to get people to

78
00:04:31,516 --> 00:04:37,156
Speaker 2: watch CS fifty that's Harvard's free computer science course on YouTube.

79
00:04:37,516 --> 00:04:40,036
Speaker 2: I'm a serious, serious nerd. But I just happened to

80
00:04:40,076 --> 00:04:44,596
Speaker 2: be born in you know, a wild environment at a

81
00:04:44,596 --> 00:04:46,556
Speaker 2: wild time. It was like the height of well when

82
00:04:46,556 --> 00:04:48,596
Speaker 2: I was born was the year Crack was born.

83
00:04:48,796 --> 00:04:50,436
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I mean.

84
00:04:50,996 --> 00:04:53,596
Speaker 2: And so my father, who I don't know he was,

85
00:04:54,276 --> 00:04:58,916
Speaker 2: he was military intelligence. When you finish military with that

86
00:04:59,036 --> 00:05:01,076
Speaker 2: level job, you can get a good corporate job. So

87
00:05:01,116 --> 00:05:04,676
Speaker 2: he got hired at Xerox Corporate where he was taking

88
00:05:04,716 --> 00:05:07,396
Speaker 2: money out of the safe to buy cocaine, and people

89
00:05:07,396 --> 00:05:10,436
Speaker 2: didn't know that crack turned you into a zombie. So

90
00:05:10,476 --> 00:05:12,436
Speaker 2: when he ran out of money, obviously got fired. That

91
00:05:12,516 --> 00:05:16,316
Speaker 2: caught him. Can put the money back fast enough and

92
00:05:16,436 --> 00:05:18,596
Speaker 2: he started smoking crack. Just take the edge off and

93
00:05:18,596 --> 00:05:22,396
Speaker 2: then boom, that's crackhead. So how old are you when

94
00:05:22,396 --> 00:05:24,716
Speaker 2: he was strung out of three? So I don't have

95
00:05:24,796 --> 00:05:27,756
Speaker 2: any memory of it. When my dad was a crackhead.

96
00:05:27,796 --> 00:05:30,596
Speaker 2: My first cousin was a heroin that age. I grew

97
00:05:30,636 --> 00:05:34,836
Speaker 2: up in all these extreme like just hood environments, losing

98
00:05:34,916 --> 00:05:38,716
Speaker 2: friends and gun violence from childhood to my adulthood because

99
00:05:38,756 --> 00:05:41,516
Speaker 2: Nipsey was one of my best friends. So like I'm

100
00:05:41,836 --> 00:05:44,436
Speaker 2: I mean, one of my friends died last year. Still,

101
00:05:44,436 --> 00:05:47,396
Speaker 2: so it's still like that, even though it's nowhere near

102
00:05:47,436 --> 00:05:48,836
Speaker 2: what it was when the murder ate it was like

103
00:05:48,876 --> 00:05:49,756
Speaker 2: two thousand people.

104
00:05:50,076 --> 00:05:55,516
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. When when things like Nipsey happened, now, man,

105
00:05:55,556 --> 00:05:58,556
Speaker 1: it's almost for me it feels like like damn, Holy

106
00:05:58,596 --> 00:06:01,316
Speaker 1: pat Like it feels like because it was obviously where

107
00:06:01,316 --> 00:06:04,116
Speaker 1: it was much more, it was happening much more often,

108
00:06:04,156 --> 00:06:05,996
Speaker 1: but so it feels, I hate to say, like a

109
00:06:06,076 --> 00:06:08,076
Speaker 1: throwback almost sometimes still when when.

110
00:06:07,996 --> 00:06:12,436
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you know, if you if you work

111
00:06:12,516 --> 00:06:14,836
Speaker 2: on the symptoms and not the cause, then the disease

112
00:06:14,956 --> 00:06:20,956
Speaker 2: is not gone. So the cause of the environment, of

113
00:06:20,996 --> 00:06:25,316
Speaker 2: low socio economic environment is something that we're not allowed

114
00:06:25,356 --> 00:06:29,036
Speaker 2: to actually talk about, our address under the social contract

115
00:06:29,076 --> 00:06:33,036
Speaker 2: of human life. So until we can do that, which

116
00:06:33,076 --> 00:06:36,156
Speaker 2: is gonna take, you know, probably another couple hundred years,

117
00:06:36,516 --> 00:06:39,596
Speaker 2: then the issue is not gonna change.

118
00:06:39,996 --> 00:06:40,996
Speaker 1: Revolution is slow.

119
00:06:41,116 --> 00:06:42,836
Speaker 2: I didn't know we were we were doing the podcast,

120
00:06:42,836 --> 00:06:45,396
Speaker 2: so I wouldn't even talk about you won't take that

121
00:06:45,476 --> 00:06:47,756
Speaker 2: and we can take it out. No, no, it's cool.

122
00:06:48,516 --> 00:06:52,636
Speaker 3: See let me know, man, all right, so let's start. Hey,

123
00:06:52,716 --> 00:06:54,156
Speaker 3: what's up. Well, now we're gonna put it.

124
00:06:54,196 --> 00:06:55,196
Speaker 1: We're gonna put a mask on that.

125
00:06:57,836 --> 00:06:59,516
Speaker 3: What's up, hey man?

126
00:06:59,516 --> 00:07:00,116
Speaker 2: How you doing?

127
00:07:00,276 --> 00:07:06,676
Speaker 1: Hey good? How are you doing? Man? Man? Congratulations on

128
00:07:07,076 --> 00:07:08,476
Speaker 1: your debut album.

129
00:07:08,716 --> 00:07:10,996
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Man, it's a wild thing to

130
00:07:11,036 --> 00:07:13,356
Speaker 2: have a debut album almost twenty years.

131
00:07:13,116 --> 00:07:17,076
Speaker 3: Into it's like a young buck.

132
00:07:17,356 --> 00:07:20,596
Speaker 2: Yeah man, yeah, bro, it's I think it's time. I

133
00:07:20,636 --> 00:07:24,636
Speaker 2: think we're in an era that it's hard to keep

134
00:07:24,676 --> 00:07:28,636
Speaker 2: that age stigma. You know, existing in the Internet era,

135
00:07:28,676 --> 00:07:31,676
Speaker 2: because it's just obviously not really anymore.

136
00:07:31,956 --> 00:07:35,836
Speaker 1: This project that you put out almost whenever been out

137
00:07:35,916 --> 00:07:38,036
Speaker 1: to some degree a couple of different iteration years.

138
00:07:38,156 --> 00:07:39,396
Speaker 2: Yeahah, the majority of.

139
00:07:39,356 --> 00:07:42,156
Speaker 1: It, so first time in twenty fourteen, first batch of

140
00:07:42,156 --> 00:07:47,156
Speaker 1: songs released in twenty fourteen, then twenty twenty sixteen. Yeah, yeah,

141
00:07:47,636 --> 00:07:50,276
Speaker 1: why did you decide to compile those and drop those? Now?

142
00:07:50,716 --> 00:07:53,236
Speaker 2: It's a gift, you know what I mean? Like, I

143
00:07:53,276 --> 00:07:56,276
Speaker 2: haven't identified as an artist for this my entire career

144
00:07:56,356 --> 00:07:59,996
Speaker 2: for a bunch of different reasons. But from the very

145
00:08:00,036 --> 00:08:02,756
Speaker 2: beginning till now, Like let's say I had a thousand

146
00:08:02,836 --> 00:08:05,756
Speaker 2: fans when I started off, but like ten of the

147
00:08:05,796 --> 00:08:08,236
Speaker 2: fans were some of the biggest artists on the planet Earth,

148
00:08:09,236 --> 00:08:12,636
Speaker 2: and they were finding my music either from me working

149
00:08:12,636 --> 00:08:15,356
Speaker 2: in a session somebody or someone telling them about it,

150
00:08:15,436 --> 00:08:17,956
Speaker 2: and then going on YouTube, where I had hundreds of

151
00:08:18,036 --> 00:08:23,396
Speaker 2: songs uploaded, and especially at that time I uploaded exactly

152
00:08:23,476 --> 00:08:25,956
Speaker 2: zero of those songs. We were all hacked, and like

153
00:08:26,476 --> 00:08:28,836
Speaker 2: who was putting them up? There were hackers from Germany,

154
00:08:29,116 --> 00:08:34,716
Speaker 2: from Paris, from Russia. They would contact me and tell me,

155
00:08:34,796 --> 00:08:36,996
Speaker 2: like I remember one time, this is just I think

156
00:08:36,996 --> 00:08:39,996
Speaker 2: it was a German, German or French hacker, but he

157
00:08:40,476 --> 00:08:43,276
Speaker 2: found my aim, this aim at the time, and he

158
00:08:43,916 --> 00:08:46,516
Speaker 2: sent me a picture of like two hundred songs and

159
00:08:46,676 --> 00:08:49,916
Speaker 2: was like, these hundred, these are all stolen. He was like,

160
00:08:49,956 --> 00:08:53,436
Speaker 2: these hundred I'm posting, but this hundred over here, I

161
00:08:53,516 --> 00:08:55,676
Speaker 2: really like these. I'm gonna hold on to these. Just Rockulus.

162
00:08:57,916 --> 00:09:01,076
Speaker 2: So shout out to the hackers because they really they

163
00:09:01,076 --> 00:09:03,076
Speaker 2: were my first digital marketing team.

164
00:09:03,276 --> 00:09:04,956
Speaker 1: How did these hackers know about you? Like?

165
00:09:04,996 --> 00:09:07,756
Speaker 2: What was basically the hustle was, which a lot of

166
00:09:07,836 --> 00:09:10,076
Speaker 2: music business people don't even know that because they're not

167
00:09:10,276 --> 00:09:14,156
Speaker 2: computer people. And I've always been a serious, serious computer man.

168
00:09:14,996 --> 00:09:16,876
Speaker 2: I knew the hackers were going to be stealing people's

169
00:09:16,876 --> 00:09:19,996
Speaker 2: songs before it happened, because I know how, I know

170
00:09:20,076 --> 00:09:23,196
Speaker 2: how it works and how they stole it. And so basically,

171
00:09:23,796 --> 00:09:25,276
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say who it was with a

172
00:09:25,316 --> 00:09:28,836
Speaker 2: prominent music business person sitting out a mass email one time,

173
00:09:29,516 --> 00:09:32,276
Speaker 2: and they didn't know how to use blind carving copies,

174
00:09:32,356 --> 00:09:34,956
Speaker 2: so they put the email of almost everybody I'd ever

175
00:09:34,996 --> 00:09:36,756
Speaker 2: met in the music business was in this one email,

176
00:09:36,796 --> 00:09:39,516
Speaker 2: and I remember seeing it and I was like, knowing

177
00:09:39,676 --> 00:09:41,756
Speaker 2: what I know about hacking. I was like, this is

178
00:09:42,276 --> 00:09:44,036
Speaker 2: this is not good because the wrong person gets their

179
00:09:44,036 --> 00:09:45,956
Speaker 2: hands on all these emails. This is the beginning of

180
00:09:45,996 --> 00:09:46,476
Speaker 2: my career.

181
00:09:46,516 --> 00:09:48,636
Speaker 1: And I was like, and with someone trying to help

182
00:09:48,676 --> 00:09:50,756
Speaker 1: you essentially that he just.

183
00:09:50,796 --> 00:09:52,716
Speaker 2: Was sending out like a blast about an artist. It

184
00:09:52,796 --> 00:09:54,756
Speaker 2: was like, yo, I got a new artist. Everybody look

185
00:09:54,796 --> 00:09:58,236
Speaker 2: at this. But he put almost everybody's music in the

186
00:09:58,316 --> 00:10:01,436
Speaker 2: music business email and this thing. And I was like,

187
00:10:01,476 --> 00:10:03,436
Speaker 2: this is just not smart to have everybody's emails in

188
00:10:03,476 --> 00:10:06,436
Speaker 2: one place like this. This is the purpose of blind

189
00:10:06,436 --> 00:10:10,996
Speaker 2: carving copy. And shortly after that people started receiving these.

190
00:10:11,036 --> 00:10:13,556
Speaker 2: It's called phishing, which now is a more known term.

191
00:10:13,636 --> 00:10:17,316
Speaker 2: But sure enough, phishing emails started going out of people,

192
00:10:17,716 --> 00:10:21,996
Speaker 2: you know, like cloning industry emails and saying, yo, did

193
00:10:21,996 --> 00:10:24,156
Speaker 2: you get this file to this? And they still do

194
00:10:24,196 --> 00:10:25,916
Speaker 2: that to this day. But basically what they what you're

195
00:10:25,956 --> 00:10:28,436
Speaker 2: able to do, especially the further you go back in time,

196
00:10:28,516 --> 00:10:31,116
Speaker 2: the less security you had to deal with the emails,

197
00:10:32,076 --> 00:10:34,316
Speaker 2: and so they were tricking them into giving you their

198
00:10:34,396 --> 00:10:36,756
Speaker 2: user name or not to use the name of their password.

199
00:10:37,636 --> 00:10:39,636
Speaker 2: Then when you can go in the email and set

200
00:10:39,716 --> 00:10:43,316
Speaker 2: up an attachment filter and have it forwarded to another email.

201
00:10:43,956 --> 00:10:47,796
Speaker 2: So basically they were going in all the an RS, executives, producers,

202
00:10:48,396 --> 00:10:52,036
Speaker 2: everybody's emails, setting up attachment filters to forward all attachments

203
00:10:52,036 --> 00:10:54,996
Speaker 2: to their emails. And then they're incentive for doing this

204
00:10:55,196 --> 00:10:59,196
Speaker 2: was they were uploading all these leaks to websites where

205
00:10:59,196 --> 00:11:01,476
Speaker 2: like music fans would go, and then they were getting

206
00:11:01,476 --> 00:11:04,276
Speaker 2: money from the ads on the website. Wow, so they're

207
00:11:04,276 --> 00:11:04,876
Speaker 2: cleaning up.

208
00:11:04,916 --> 00:11:08,876
Speaker 1: I was on those websites. I'm those websites yet, so.

209
00:11:08,876 --> 00:11:09,396
Speaker 3: Think about it.

210
00:11:09,476 --> 00:11:11,076
Speaker 2: When you went to them old websites in the early

211
00:11:11,116 --> 00:11:14,516
Speaker 2: two thousands or mid two thousands, they were covered in ads.

212
00:11:15,116 --> 00:11:15,796
Speaker 1: Crazy ass.

213
00:11:15,836 --> 00:11:19,396
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the hackers were cleaning up. But they also

214
00:11:19,876 --> 00:11:21,716
Speaker 2: a lot of these guys, which if you think about

215
00:11:21,716 --> 00:11:23,356
Speaker 2: it makes sense because a hacker is someone that sits

216
00:11:23,396 --> 00:11:25,476
Speaker 2: in front of a computer all day. So they love.

217
00:11:25,476 --> 00:11:27,276
Speaker 1: Music, you know what I mean.

218
00:11:27,476 --> 00:11:29,876
Speaker 2: So like because they're listening to music while they're doing

219
00:11:29,916 --> 00:11:31,276
Speaker 2: their various hack things.

220
00:11:31,676 --> 00:11:32,076
Speaker 3: I love it.

221
00:11:32,076 --> 00:11:34,916
Speaker 1: It's not all it's not it's not only commercial concerns.

222
00:11:35,196 --> 00:11:36,596
Speaker 1: So like these under songs, I'm.

223
00:11:36,916 --> 00:11:39,396
Speaker 2: No, they're like and And a friend of mine got

224
00:11:39,396 --> 00:11:41,916
Speaker 2: to email that of a hacker that was like, we

225
00:11:41,956 --> 00:11:46,356
Speaker 2: want all of your James Funtleroy unsure. Uh, I forgot

226
00:11:46,396 --> 00:11:48,316
Speaker 2: who the other people were they were. It was like

227
00:11:49,236 --> 00:11:50,756
Speaker 2: he was like, we're coming for your ship.

228
00:11:52,076 --> 00:11:54,636
Speaker 3: We know you got them Usher songs. We coming to

229
00:11:54,676 --> 00:11:55,396
Speaker 3: get that ship.

230
00:11:55,956 --> 00:11:57,676
Speaker 2: And so what end up happening is they're putting all

231
00:11:57,716 --> 00:12:00,116
Speaker 2: they're putting all these songs on YouTube also so they

232
00:12:00,156 --> 00:12:04,676
Speaker 2: can get ad revenue. And now my small fan base,

233
00:12:04,716 --> 00:12:07,356
Speaker 2: which includes some of these huge celebrities, are able to

234
00:12:07,396 --> 00:12:10,796
Speaker 2: go on YouTube and listen to my songs and other

235
00:12:10,836 --> 00:12:13,076
Speaker 2: writers and go on YouTube and listening to a hundred

236
00:12:13,116 --> 00:12:16,516
Speaker 2: of my songs, and so that that really had a

237
00:12:16,516 --> 00:12:20,196
Speaker 2: big impact on me getting work and having something to

238
00:12:20,236 --> 00:12:24,436
Speaker 2: support the word of mouth, but also giving like hundreds

239
00:12:25,316 --> 00:12:29,236
Speaker 2: of writers, like just hundreds of songs to study my style.

240
00:12:29,396 --> 00:12:31,996
Speaker 2: So that was a part of my style.

241
00:12:32,076 --> 00:12:37,196
Speaker 1: Becoming proliferating around right big with this in the you

242
00:12:37,236 --> 00:12:40,116
Speaker 1: know R and B saying, so you were just making

243
00:12:40,116 --> 00:12:43,436
Speaker 1: these songs like your own personal songs.

244
00:12:43,116 --> 00:12:45,876
Speaker 2: And I was trying to get placements. So when I

245
00:12:45,916 --> 00:12:50,356
Speaker 2: got my first placement or or song on someone's album,

246
00:12:50,356 --> 00:12:52,756
Speaker 2: it was on Katherine McPhee's album, and I don't remember

247
00:12:52,796 --> 00:12:55,396
Speaker 2: the name of the song. But I was so excited

248
00:12:55,436 --> 00:12:58,516
Speaker 2: because you know, like just getting one song place is

249
00:12:58,596 --> 00:13:03,396
Speaker 2: a miracle. And the time, yeah, it was popping, I

250
00:13:03,516 --> 00:13:07,556
Speaker 2: was I was happy. And the guy, one of the

251
00:13:07,556 --> 00:13:10,276
Speaker 2: guys that worked at the publishing company came to me

252
00:13:10,316 --> 00:13:13,636
Speaker 2: and he was keeping track of like everybody's songs because

253
00:13:13,636 --> 00:13:15,756
Speaker 2: that was part of his job, and he gave me

254
00:13:15,756 --> 00:13:17,396
Speaker 2: a spreadsheet and was like, I want you to see this,

255
00:13:18,116 --> 00:13:20,236
Speaker 2: and showed me that I had written or started three

256
00:13:20,316 --> 00:13:24,596
Speaker 2: hundred songs before my first placement. So like a lot

257
00:13:24,636 --> 00:13:26,956
Speaker 2: of those songs and we're the ones that people are

258
00:13:27,036 --> 00:13:29,156
Speaker 2: sending to an rs and stuff trying to shop them,

259
00:13:29,796 --> 00:13:31,756
Speaker 2: which is so funny because I have almost no I

260
00:13:31,756 --> 00:13:35,436
Speaker 2: have like five hundred releases, and I think one came

261
00:13:35,476 --> 00:13:39,516
Speaker 2: from shopping of all those five hundred songs, the other

262
00:13:39,716 --> 00:13:41,916
Speaker 2: hundreds of songs came from people was just finding my

263
00:13:42,036 --> 00:13:47,076
Speaker 2: personal music and becoming fans. And to answer this extremely

264
00:13:47,116 --> 00:13:49,356
Speaker 2: long answer to your question why I wanted to do

265
00:13:49,476 --> 00:13:53,076
Speaker 2: this now is because over the years, my super small

266
00:13:53,156 --> 00:13:56,756
Speaker 2: fan base has grown to a bigger small fan base

267
00:13:57,276 --> 00:14:02,796
Speaker 2: of people that are really so supportive and just you know,

268
00:14:02,876 --> 00:14:05,796
Speaker 2: like giving me so much energy, especially when I'm the

269
00:14:05,876 --> 00:14:07,956
Speaker 2: music I've been releasing over the years is really just

270
00:14:08,716 --> 00:14:12,436
Speaker 2: you know, like to satisfy create my creative you know,

271
00:14:12,516 --> 00:14:15,916
Speaker 2: desire or whatever, just wanting to be able to release

272
00:14:15,956 --> 00:14:17,476
Speaker 2: things that I don't have to think about all the

273
00:14:17,516 --> 00:14:19,956
Speaker 2: parameters that come with working with superstars, even though I

274
00:14:19,996 --> 00:14:23,516
Speaker 2: also love parameters because they forced you to do something different.

275
00:14:24,156 --> 00:14:26,836
Speaker 2: And so why I'm putting the album out now is

276
00:14:26,836 --> 00:14:28,316
Speaker 2: I I just can't take it anymore. I want to

277
00:14:28,396 --> 00:14:30,756
Speaker 2: let the fans and people that listen to my music

278
00:14:30,876 --> 00:14:34,556
Speaker 2: in the community and at large know that I appreciate

279
00:14:34,676 --> 00:14:37,756
Speaker 2: all the support by putting some energy into it. And

280
00:14:37,796 --> 00:14:41,876
Speaker 2: then also I want to update these niggas because you know,

281
00:14:41,996 --> 00:14:45,316
Speaker 2: like so many people study me. And then also it's

282
00:14:45,556 --> 00:14:47,476
Speaker 2: because I've already seen a lot of people talking about

283
00:14:47,516 --> 00:14:51,436
Speaker 2: like why is James's first album on Christmas? Album? Actually,

284
00:14:51,436 --> 00:14:51,796
Speaker 2: today I.

285
00:14:51,796 --> 00:14:53,876
Speaker 3: Saw don't steal My question broll No.

286
00:14:54,036 --> 00:14:58,276
Speaker 2: Today I saw a sweet that said James Finloy's debut

287
00:14:58,396 --> 00:15:01,636
Speaker 2: album being a Christmas album is such a James Finleroy

288
00:15:01,716 --> 00:15:05,996
Speaker 2: thing to do, and I was like missing accomplish. So

289
00:15:06,036 --> 00:15:10,156
Speaker 2: it was why is your first album with christ Well

290
00:15:10,756 --> 00:15:13,276
Speaker 2: part of it, there's a couple of answers one is like,

291
00:15:14,316 --> 00:15:16,276
Speaker 2: because these songs have been out for so long I have,

292
00:15:16,396 --> 00:15:17,996
Speaker 2: I've had a lot of time to see what people

293
00:15:18,076 --> 00:15:20,676
Speaker 2: like or not, you know, and I get a lot

294
00:15:20,756 --> 00:15:24,316
Speaker 2: of responses about this Christmas music throughout the year and

295
00:15:24,436 --> 00:15:27,676
Speaker 2: four years, like so I know people like it, and

296
00:15:27,676 --> 00:15:29,716
Speaker 2: I know people listen to it not only in Christmas,

297
00:15:29,796 --> 00:15:34,836
Speaker 2: but creatively. It's just it's a fun way to stretch

298
00:15:34,956 --> 00:15:38,236
Speaker 2: my imagination because like, like, for instance, I did an

299
00:15:38,276 --> 00:15:42,436
Speaker 2: album one time that people don't even know. It's seven

300
00:15:42,516 --> 00:15:44,676
Speaker 2: songs on the projects and each one of them is

301
00:15:45,236 --> 00:15:48,276
Speaker 2: referencing one of the days of creation in the Bible.

302
00:15:48,796 --> 00:15:50,676
Speaker 2: And you know, like I did that because I was

303
00:15:50,676 --> 00:15:54,196
Speaker 2: studying philosophy at the time, but also because it's just

304
00:15:54,236 --> 00:15:57,516
Speaker 2: fun when you give yourself new. You know, almost every

305
00:15:57,556 --> 00:15:59,396
Speaker 2: song is about the same like three or four things.

306
00:16:00,076 --> 00:16:01,916
Speaker 2: And I told you I wrote three hundred songs before

307
00:16:01,956 --> 00:16:04,156
Speaker 2: my first one, so you can imagine that was almost

308
00:16:04,156 --> 00:16:06,396
Speaker 2: twenty years ago. How many have written up to this

309
00:16:06,436 --> 00:16:08,716
Speaker 2: point and you started running out of shit to say

310
00:16:09,236 --> 00:16:12,036
Speaker 2: and do, and like, how do you how do I

311
00:16:12,116 --> 00:16:16,156
Speaker 2: make this fun? It's like coming up with something new

312
00:16:16,476 --> 00:16:20,636
Speaker 2: to challenge myself and pull something new out of myself

313
00:16:21,276 --> 00:16:24,156
Speaker 2: and I'm still I feel like I still haven't had

314
00:16:24,476 --> 00:16:26,236
Speaker 2: which is gonna sound crazy. I can feel it right now,

315
00:16:26,236 --> 00:16:27,796
Speaker 2: but I feel like I still haven't had the success

316
00:16:28,116 --> 00:16:29,316
Speaker 2: trying to get well.

317
00:16:29,396 --> 00:16:32,316
Speaker 1: But it's funny because you're working in two different like

318
00:16:32,316 --> 00:16:34,316
Speaker 1: like you could judge your success a couple different ways.

319
00:16:34,316 --> 00:16:38,116
Speaker 1: Like obviously, working as a writer producer, you've had just

320
00:16:38,156 --> 00:16:40,796
Speaker 1: about as much success as won't can help to have

321
00:16:40,876 --> 00:16:43,036
Speaker 1: as a writer producer, right, But then there is this

322
00:16:43,196 --> 00:16:44,756
Speaker 1: like thing of you as an artist, and it's like,

323
00:16:44,916 --> 00:16:47,716
Speaker 1: you know, now, when I go to look for James

324
00:16:47,756 --> 00:16:51,516
Speaker 1: Fauntleroy on Apple Music or Spotify or whatever, it's not

325
00:16:51,596 --> 00:16:54,196
Speaker 1: just you featured on whatever, it's like an actual body

326
00:16:54,196 --> 00:16:55,836
Speaker 1: of work from you that I could So it's like

327
00:16:55,876 --> 00:16:58,116
Speaker 1: this other thing probably keeps things fun for you man

328
00:16:58,156 --> 00:16:59,716
Speaker 1: to like keep yourself challenged.

329
00:16:59,716 --> 00:17:01,796
Speaker 2: And yeah, I got to think of something because the

330
00:17:01,876 --> 00:17:03,156
Speaker 2: music business is not fun.

331
00:17:03,236 --> 00:17:05,436
Speaker 3: So like what do you mean by that?

332
00:17:05,876 --> 00:17:09,076
Speaker 2: It's terrible? I mean, like, you know, every movie about

333
00:17:09,316 --> 00:17:13,796
Speaker 2: the music business is terrible, like The Temptations, that's the

334
00:17:13,796 --> 00:17:14,796
Speaker 2: one I always use.

335
00:17:14,956 --> 00:17:18,316
Speaker 3: But you got to stay off of drugs.

336
00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:22,196
Speaker 2: You got to show because it's like we're selling an

337
00:17:22,196 --> 00:17:27,396
Speaker 2: intangible product, you know, and so like it's a breeding

338
00:17:27,436 --> 00:17:31,916
Speaker 2: ground for common and you know, like people who are

339
00:17:31,996 --> 00:17:35,916
Speaker 2: unscrupulous because it's it's it's a great environment to hustle,

340
00:17:36,116 --> 00:17:39,036
Speaker 2: you know. So like that's really one of my life

341
00:17:39,396 --> 00:17:42,836
Speaker 2: goals is to prove that you can be successful without

342
00:17:42,876 --> 00:17:44,916
Speaker 2: being a piece of shit and fucking people over left

343
00:17:44,916 --> 00:17:48,036
Speaker 2: and right, and you know, like doing fair business.

344
00:17:48,076 --> 00:17:51,556
Speaker 1: And do you find yourself in the and wanting to

345
00:17:51,596 --> 00:17:55,436
Speaker 1: practice less predatory sort of business practices? Do you do

346
00:17:55,436 --> 00:17:58,476
Speaker 1: you find that like people try to screw you over

347
00:17:58,956 --> 00:17:59,636
Speaker 1: every day?

348
00:17:59,836 --> 00:18:00,436
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

349
00:18:00,876 --> 00:18:02,156
Speaker 1: And do you think people are trying to screw you

350
00:18:02,196 --> 00:18:05,076
Speaker 1: over more because necessarily see that as maybe a weakness

351
00:18:05,116 --> 00:18:06,236
Speaker 1: and you're not trying to hustle.

352
00:18:06,316 --> 00:18:10,636
Speaker 2: I think they're just on autopilot, just doing whatever they can,

353
00:18:10,876 --> 00:18:13,676
Speaker 2: just trying stuff like the raptors in Jurassic Park when

354
00:18:13,676 --> 00:18:18,076
Speaker 2: they're like hitting an electric fence. That's these guys are

355
00:18:18,156 --> 00:18:20,516
Speaker 2: just like testing every fence they get they come in

356
00:18:20,516 --> 00:18:24,156
Speaker 2: contact with. And I wish it would be nice if

357
00:18:24,436 --> 00:18:28,796
Speaker 2: people would, you know, like consider that before I got

358
00:18:28,796 --> 00:18:31,396
Speaker 2: to this latest person that's trying to take advantage of me,

359
00:18:31,436 --> 00:18:33,516
Speaker 2: how many people I had to get through to get

360
00:18:33,556 --> 00:18:35,636
Speaker 2: to this point, it would be nice and they would

361
00:18:35,676 --> 00:18:38,116
Speaker 2: just but I can't be mad. I you know, I've

362
00:18:38,116 --> 00:18:39,596
Speaker 2: been in Vegas. I played Rouette once.

363
00:18:39,676 --> 00:18:43,036
Speaker 1: It was really I was like, I get it, you

364
00:18:43,116 --> 00:18:43,476
Speaker 1: get it.

365
00:18:43,556 --> 00:18:46,076
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, you know you win one time and it

366
00:18:46,156 --> 00:18:49,116
Speaker 2: just hooks you. So every time somebody, every time I

367
00:18:49,116 --> 00:18:52,076
Speaker 2: see anyone do anything crazy or say anything crazy, my

368
00:18:52,076 --> 00:18:53,996
Speaker 2: first thought is, though they got away with that shit before,

369
00:18:54,036 --> 00:18:55,556
Speaker 2: and that's why they think they could do that.

370
00:18:55,796 --> 00:18:58,116
Speaker 1: So it's really it's the business that's not fun.

371
00:18:58,556 --> 00:19:04,556
Speaker 2: Yeah, the music that can also lose its excitement for

372
00:19:04,796 --> 00:19:07,116
Speaker 2: a number of different reasons. But yeah, it's the business

373
00:19:07,156 --> 00:19:10,836
Speaker 2: and just human life. Like I study forhilosophy so extensively,

374
00:19:10,876 --> 00:19:14,796
Speaker 2: Like I spoke at the Philosophical Research Society. I think

375
00:19:14,796 --> 00:19:15,436
Speaker 2: that was this year.

376
00:19:15,996 --> 00:19:18,196
Speaker 1: Wow, what'd you speak on? This?

377
00:19:18,276 --> 00:19:24,636
Speaker 2: One was about a famous philosophical text called The Secret

378
00:19:24,796 --> 00:19:30,196
Speaker 2: Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall's who founded

379
00:19:30,236 --> 00:19:34,076
Speaker 2: the Philosophical Research Society. And my first talk there was

380
00:19:34,076 --> 00:19:36,556
Speaker 2: like a decade ago, and that was on NPR. And

381
00:19:36,596 --> 00:19:38,476
Speaker 2: I just found the footage because I feel like people

382
00:19:38,476 --> 00:19:40,636
Speaker 2: think I'm lying when I say that ship, but I got.

383
00:19:40,516 --> 00:19:42,116
Speaker 3: Evidence now it's on NPR.

384
00:19:42,476 --> 00:19:45,356
Speaker 2: And then it with NPR and now I had college

385
00:19:45,396 --> 00:19:47,316
Speaker 2: professors for risks.

386
00:19:47,316 --> 00:19:48,596
Speaker 1: Bro, you did it.

387
00:19:48,916 --> 00:19:50,796
Speaker 3: It's like I did it on Believe.

388
00:19:51,116 --> 00:19:54,556
Speaker 1: Yeah it Ron Rihanna Sance, You're like pulling up MPR footage.

389
00:19:54,876 --> 00:19:59,836
Speaker 1: Chance Bro, Damn well, how'd you go to the philosophy going? Broke?

390
00:20:02,196 --> 00:20:02,596
Speaker 4: Some people?

391
00:20:02,596 --> 00:20:04,676
Speaker 2: When you lose all your money, that's when you really

392
00:20:04,716 --> 00:20:06,996
Speaker 2: started looking for God, right in that moment you started

393
00:20:07,036 --> 00:20:07,836
Speaker 2: praying and ship.

394
00:20:08,156 --> 00:20:09,636
Speaker 1: It was just after you had some money.

395
00:20:09,836 --> 00:20:10,036
Speaker 4: Yeah.

396
00:20:10,156 --> 00:20:13,196
Speaker 2: Man, you know, I haven't met a person yet that

397
00:20:13,236 --> 00:20:18,196
Speaker 2: didn't blow their first million dollars, and most people I

398
00:20:18,236 --> 00:20:20,636
Speaker 2: know are have also blown their last million dollars. So

399
00:20:20,956 --> 00:20:25,276
Speaker 2: it's just a That's Another part of the predatory environment

400
00:20:25,316 --> 00:20:28,756
Speaker 2: that makes it hard to enjoy is like you know,

401
00:20:28,836 --> 00:20:32,356
Speaker 2: like in sports, for instance, they have preferred business management

402
00:20:33,196 --> 00:20:36,596
Speaker 2: and regulatory boards, and they have all these things that

403
00:20:36,716 --> 00:20:39,716
Speaker 2: have come into place to protect the young.

404
00:20:39,596 --> 00:20:42,396
Speaker 1: Athletes, mentorship systems, it's the whole.

405
00:20:42,156 --> 00:20:46,036
Speaker 2: Thing address that because they realize that the quality of

406
00:20:46,076 --> 00:20:48,716
Speaker 2: life the players are experiencing has an impact on the product.

407
00:20:49,036 --> 00:20:50,956
Speaker 2: Versus in our industry, there's none of that. There's no

408
00:20:50,996 --> 00:20:54,076
Speaker 2: regulatory boards, so people can do any deal that you

409
00:20:54,156 --> 00:20:58,556
Speaker 2: will sign and with no oversight. There's no even like

410
00:20:58,716 --> 00:21:03,036
Speaker 2: industry of what the term business manager implies. So like

411
00:21:03,636 --> 00:21:07,356
Speaker 2: the biggest firms that are typical and the biggest entertainers

412
00:21:07,916 --> 00:21:09,596
Speaker 2: that are going to like what you would consider like

413
00:21:09,676 --> 00:21:12,996
Speaker 2: music firms, what they're getting is a CPA that's an accountant.

414
00:21:12,996 --> 00:21:17,076
Speaker 2: So the accountant is like paying your bills typically on

415
00:21:17,156 --> 00:21:20,796
Speaker 2: auto pay, calling the credit card company when your car

416
00:21:20,836 --> 00:21:24,036
Speaker 2: doesn't work in room or whatever. But what business manager

417
00:21:24,076 --> 00:21:26,596
Speaker 2: implies is that they're going to manage your business. So

418
00:21:26,676 --> 00:21:30,316
Speaker 2: what you're actually looking for is wealth management. Somebody that's gonna,

419
00:21:30,836 --> 00:21:32,356
Speaker 2: you know, come up with a plan for your money

420
00:21:32,356 --> 00:21:34,596
Speaker 2: so that you can build a wealth and budgeting and

421
00:21:34,676 --> 00:21:37,796
Speaker 2: whatever versus. I mean, my last business manager I had,

422
00:21:38,276 --> 00:21:39,556
Speaker 2: you know, I would call and say, hey, can I

423
00:21:39,596 --> 00:21:42,076
Speaker 2: afford this? They'd be like, hell, yeah, bye too, you

424
00:21:42,116 --> 00:21:45,716
Speaker 2: know what I mean, And that actually that's not the truth.

425
00:21:46,756 --> 00:21:48,236
Speaker 3: And so was that a good thing?

426
00:21:48,436 --> 00:21:49,516
Speaker 2: No, it was a terrible thing.

427
00:21:50,876 --> 00:21:54,116
Speaker 1: Sounds like great great news to me too, I wish.

428
00:21:54,116 --> 00:21:55,996
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's not that's not real, you know what

429
00:21:56,036 --> 00:21:59,436
Speaker 2: I mean. Because basically what they're doing is banking on

430
00:21:59,516 --> 00:22:02,876
Speaker 2: the fact that you'll just always have income, and that's

431
00:22:02,916 --> 00:22:06,596
Speaker 2: not how we get we we rarely get paid, especially

432
00:22:06,596 --> 00:22:09,476
Speaker 2: if you're a songwriter. That's a whole other conversation because

433
00:22:09,956 --> 00:22:12,756
Speaker 2: producers at least get fees, and a songwriter as big

434
00:22:12,756 --> 00:22:15,556
Speaker 2: as I am, I get fees sometimes, but that's not

435
00:22:16,316 --> 00:22:18,236
Speaker 2: what we're all expecting that I'm not going to get

436
00:22:18,236 --> 00:22:21,076
Speaker 2: a fee, you know what I mean. And so for

437
00:22:21,156 --> 00:22:25,996
Speaker 2: a songwriter it's it's even harder because like, you just

438
00:22:26,076 --> 00:22:28,356
Speaker 2: don't have any way to get paid except for your

439
00:22:28,396 --> 00:22:31,596
Speaker 2: publishing advance, which is based on your ability to have

440
00:22:31,716 --> 00:22:35,276
Speaker 2: hit songs, which is something you also can't control.

441
00:22:35,636 --> 00:22:38,876
Speaker 1: Right after a quick break, will be back with more

442
00:22:38,916 --> 00:22:46,276
Speaker 1: of an interview with James Fontleroy. We're back with more

443
00:22:46,356 --> 00:22:49,756
Speaker 1: from James font Leroy. Your name has always been a

444
00:22:49,756 --> 00:22:52,076
Speaker 1: gold standard in terms of so I know you're saying

445
00:22:52,076 --> 00:22:54,236
Speaker 1: you're not Babe Ruth, you can't call hits, and it's true,

446
00:22:54,236 --> 00:22:58,916
Speaker 1: but you've had an overwhelming amount of great songs written

447
00:22:58,956 --> 00:23:03,236
Speaker 1: with great artists over you know, now damn near twenty years.

448
00:23:03,956 --> 00:23:08,716
Speaker 1: How have you been able to retain that level of creativity?

449
00:23:08,796 --> 00:23:11,796
Speaker 2: And well, a hit song is that's something you buy,

450
00:23:11,996 --> 00:23:14,436
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, a hit song is

451
00:23:14,476 --> 00:23:18,596
Speaker 2: not a sound it's an element of a marketing campaign

452
00:23:18,716 --> 00:23:21,676
Speaker 2: that costs a certain amount of money. So when people

453
00:23:21,676 --> 00:23:23,396
Speaker 2: are when I hear like an amateur, like I got

454
00:23:23,396 --> 00:23:25,076
Speaker 2: my new single coming out, I'm like, no, you don't

455
00:23:25,116 --> 00:23:26,996
Speaker 2: have any money. You're putting a song out. That's what

456
00:23:27,036 --> 00:23:31,996
Speaker 2: that's called a single, or somebody that's a budget behind.

457
00:23:32,116 --> 00:23:33,436
Speaker 2: That's that's what a single is.

458
00:23:34,396 --> 00:23:35,356
Speaker 3: And so.

459
00:23:36,756 --> 00:23:39,476
Speaker 2: That's why I'm like, I can't, I can't call it

460
00:23:39,556 --> 00:23:42,156
Speaker 2: hit because that depends on you know, like what what

461
00:23:42,156 --> 00:23:45,196
Speaker 2: people respond to, but more importantly, how much money people

462
00:23:45,236 --> 00:23:47,436
Speaker 2: are spending on it. Now, what I can say is

463
00:23:48,236 --> 00:23:53,676
Speaker 2: that I have really good tastes. And why my taste,

464
00:23:53,756 --> 00:23:56,596
Speaker 2: why I have so much confidence confidence in my taste

465
00:23:56,716 --> 00:23:59,636
Speaker 2: is because although some of it is inherent or whatever,

466
00:23:59,676 --> 00:24:02,316
Speaker 2: but for the most part, it's it's not about that.

467
00:24:02,396 --> 00:24:05,236
Speaker 2: It's we have evidence of what works. We have Stevie Wonder,

468
00:24:05,276 --> 00:24:07,996
Speaker 2: we have Prince, we have Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis,

469
00:24:07,996 --> 00:24:10,236
Speaker 2: we got Babyface, we got Dying Warren, we got all

470
00:24:10,276 --> 00:24:15,076
Speaker 2: these people, and it's really our job as modern creators

471
00:24:15,116 --> 00:24:19,596
Speaker 2: to try to comprehend not how to do what they did,

472
00:24:19,596 --> 00:24:22,556
Speaker 2: but what worked. You know, I had an argument with

473
00:24:22,596 --> 00:24:24,556
Speaker 2: them he's a really big executive now. At the time

474
00:24:24,596 --> 00:24:26,356
Speaker 2: he was a big executive. I had an argument with

475
00:24:26,396 --> 00:24:29,476
Speaker 2: this guy one time because he was telling me that

476
00:24:29,556 --> 00:24:31,956
Speaker 2: my songs were too complex, which she was right, but

477
00:24:32,476 --> 00:24:34,916
Speaker 2: he was like it was crazy too, because he was

478
00:24:34,956 --> 00:24:36,556
Speaker 2: asking me to work for this artist and I was

479
00:24:36,596 --> 00:24:39,316
Speaker 2: like no, And then he was like, come on, work

480
00:24:39,356 --> 00:24:41,756
Speaker 2: with the artist, and I was like no. So then

481
00:24:41,796 --> 00:24:43,116
Speaker 2: he said he wanted to have a meeting with me.

482
00:24:43,156 --> 00:24:44,556
Speaker 2: Then he calls me in the meeting, and the whole

483
00:24:44,596 --> 00:24:46,636
Speaker 2: meeting is him telling me why my songs won't be

484
00:24:46,756 --> 00:24:49,836
Speaker 2: hit songs. And so this is the early part of

485
00:24:49,836 --> 00:24:52,596
Speaker 2: my career. So I'm sitting here. Also, at the time,

486
00:24:52,636 --> 00:24:56,796
Speaker 2: my manager was there, and my poor manager didn't know

487
00:24:56,876 --> 00:25:00,676
Speaker 2: what my personality was like because growing up in the

488
00:25:00,796 --> 00:25:02,996
Speaker 2: environment I grew up and I knew, like, you know,

489
00:25:03,116 --> 00:25:06,436
Speaker 2: like in these kind of situations, yeah, unless they know

490
00:25:06,556 --> 00:25:09,556
Speaker 2: the better he does. So I'm just like he imagine

491
00:25:09,556 --> 00:25:12,516
Speaker 2: me for like almost two years, and he didn't know that.

492
00:25:13,956 --> 00:25:16,796
Speaker 2: I was like I am. So I'm sitting here listening

493
00:25:16,796 --> 00:25:19,836
Speaker 2: to this guy who just I told no twice, tell

494
00:25:19,876 --> 00:25:22,396
Speaker 2: me why my songs will never be hits, And I'm like,

495
00:25:22,516 --> 00:25:24,716
Speaker 2: I feel the pressure rising up that I'm about to

496
00:25:24,756 --> 00:25:27,796
Speaker 2: let this guy have it, and I'm like, oh no,

497
00:25:27,836 --> 00:25:31,636
Speaker 2: my manager, this is gonna happen. And so even though

498
00:25:31,676 --> 00:25:33,916
Speaker 2: I haven't, I've never yelled at anyone in the music business.

499
00:25:34,036 --> 00:25:37,756
Speaker 2: But and I have theories on why people feel like

500
00:25:37,796 --> 00:25:40,276
Speaker 2: I'm yelling at them when I'm talking calmly, because I

501
00:25:40,276 --> 00:25:42,076
Speaker 2: sounded just like this when I'm talking to this guy.

502
00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:44,876
Speaker 2: But after I let him say all this ridiculous shit,

503
00:25:44,956 --> 00:25:46,956
Speaker 2: I was like, man, with all due respect, like if

504
00:25:46,956 --> 00:25:50,076
Speaker 2: you take the number one songs from any period, like

505
00:25:50,116 --> 00:25:52,876
Speaker 2: the last year, the last ten years, last thirty years,

506
00:25:53,716 --> 00:25:57,276
Speaker 2: they're different tempos, different topics, different genres, different looking people.

507
00:25:58,076 --> 00:26:00,196
Speaker 2: None of those factors are the thing and something else

508
00:26:00,236 --> 00:26:02,036
Speaker 2: that they have in common that I know that you

509
00:26:02,116 --> 00:26:04,956
Speaker 2: don't know. And so for you to sit here and

510
00:26:04,996 --> 00:26:06,876
Speaker 2: tell me that I don't know how to write his song,

511
00:26:07,516 --> 00:26:10,876
Speaker 2: it's absolutely ridiculous. Nobody knows, you know. But of the

512
00:26:10,916 --> 00:26:11,316
Speaker 2: two of.

513
00:26:11,356 --> 00:26:14,956
Speaker 1: Us, yeah, you know more than.

514
00:26:16,676 --> 00:26:18,956
Speaker 2: He was like, you're absolutely right. I hope he here's

515
00:26:18,996 --> 00:26:22,116
Speaker 2: the shit and not just the truth. So like how

516
00:26:22,196 --> 00:26:25,316
Speaker 2: I have there's two things I'm thinking about. I'm measuring

517
00:26:26,196 --> 00:26:28,036
Speaker 2: the quality of my music and the quality of the

518
00:26:28,076 --> 00:26:32,036
Speaker 2: writing and melodies and all this stuff against these greats

519
00:26:32,076 --> 00:26:34,196
Speaker 2: that I listed. So I'm like, I'm not looking at

520
00:26:34,196 --> 00:26:37,956
Speaker 2: what people right now are doing. I'm looking at the

521
00:26:37,956 --> 00:26:39,756
Speaker 2: people that already proved to us. Oh, because this is

522
00:26:39,756 --> 00:26:42,916
Speaker 2: another thing I tell people all the time. Every generation

523
00:26:42,996 --> 00:26:45,756
Speaker 2: thinks their music is the best, right man, When I

524
00:26:45,796 --> 00:26:47,476
Speaker 2: was young, it was so good. I think that too now,

525
00:26:47,476 --> 00:26:48,636
Speaker 2: even though I know what I'm about to tell you

526
00:26:48,716 --> 00:26:49,036
Speaker 2: right now.

527
00:26:49,716 --> 00:26:49,876
Speaker 3: Oh.

528
00:26:49,916 --> 00:26:51,556
Speaker 2: And also, people are always like, you got to make

529
00:26:51,636 --> 00:26:54,516
Speaker 2: music simple because everybody's stupid, right, And so I tell

530
00:26:54,556 --> 00:26:58,316
Speaker 2: people all the time, one, people have always been stupid,

531
00:26:59,156 --> 00:27:02,876
Speaker 2: day one, the first human to the last is going

532
00:27:02,916 --> 00:27:05,436
Speaker 2: to be an abundance of idiots. So when Stevie Wonder

533
00:27:05,556 --> 00:27:08,196
Speaker 2: was putting out music, people were just dumb as they

534
00:27:08,196 --> 00:27:13,196
Speaker 2: were now. And then further, when I think about all

535
00:27:13,236 --> 00:27:17,636
Speaker 2: these these different people that I'm talking about the other

536
00:27:17,716 --> 00:27:21,476
Speaker 2: element of what makes people like songs, It's like, yes,

537
00:27:21,516 --> 00:27:24,876
Speaker 2: I'm comparing myself quality wise to all these greats. But

538
00:27:25,316 --> 00:27:27,276
Speaker 2: what I'm really trying to do with the song is

539
00:27:28,516 --> 00:27:32,476
Speaker 2: turn a consumer into a believer, you know what I mean.

540
00:27:32,516 --> 00:27:36,516
Speaker 2: Like that's yeah, Like that's something that connects you with

541
00:27:36,556 --> 00:27:38,876
Speaker 2: the person because I'm always telling people, which is just

542
00:27:38,876 --> 00:27:41,436
Speaker 2: funny because I have I've seen I just saw an

543
00:27:41,436 --> 00:27:43,356
Speaker 2: interview with somebody saying the opposite of what I'm about

544
00:27:43,396 --> 00:27:47,956
Speaker 2: to say. But art is it's it's already cathartic, you

545
00:27:47,956 --> 00:27:49,516
Speaker 2: know what I mean. When you're when you make a

546
00:27:49,516 --> 00:27:54,276
Speaker 2: piece of art, you're you're using your experience to make

547
00:27:54,316 --> 00:27:58,636
Speaker 2: it right everything, but the value of it, the part

548
00:27:58,676 --> 00:28:01,276
Speaker 2: that people are paying you money for, is not about

549
00:28:01,356 --> 00:28:04,476
Speaker 2: your catharist It has nothing to do with you. So

550
00:28:04,596 --> 00:28:07,916
Speaker 2: like my my secret or my my, what I'm thinking

551
00:28:07,956 --> 00:28:10,836
Speaker 2: about is, you know, there's the quality part I told

552
00:28:10,876 --> 00:28:13,516
Speaker 2: you about, but my intent is to make something that

553
00:28:13,556 --> 00:28:17,156
Speaker 2: connects the listener because of the level of service this

554
00:28:17,276 --> 00:28:20,276
Speaker 2: song is providing in their lives. And so you know,

555
00:28:20,316 --> 00:28:23,476
Speaker 2: there's different venues. There's barbecues, there's the car, there's the club.

556
00:28:24,236 --> 00:28:26,596
Speaker 2: A great example. I always tell people because for whatever reason,

557
00:28:26,636 --> 00:28:28,716
Speaker 2: people think I only listen to classical music and shit,

558
00:28:29,796 --> 00:28:33,836
Speaker 2: because whenever I tell people I listen, I listen. I've

559
00:28:33,876 --> 00:28:36,396
Speaker 2: listened to I started listening to classical, right, I do

560
00:28:36,516 --> 00:28:38,516
Speaker 2: listen to classical music, but I love all kinds of stuff.

561
00:28:38,516 --> 00:28:41,116
Speaker 2: So I always tell people a great example of a

562
00:28:41,196 --> 00:28:44,356
Speaker 2: song that is of extreme like levels of use is

563
00:28:44,396 --> 00:28:47,676
Speaker 2: back that ass up, right, Oh my god, because well

564
00:28:47,876 --> 00:28:51,436
Speaker 2: we'll use that song till the end of time. Tell me, yeah,

565
00:28:51,516 --> 00:28:54,556
Speaker 2: like Mariah Carey the Christmas song, back that ass up.

566
00:28:55,356 --> 00:28:56,996
Speaker 2: You know, there's just like a couple of songs that

567
00:28:56,996 --> 00:28:59,156
Speaker 2: we consider classics. Oh yeah, I just reader. My other

568
00:28:59,236 --> 00:29:03,596
Speaker 2: point was that people always think music is so good

569
00:29:03,636 --> 00:29:07,436
Speaker 2: from their era, But the fact is we stopped playing

570
00:29:07,436 --> 00:29:10,396
Speaker 2: the ship that's not of use, playing the things that

571
00:29:10,996 --> 00:29:11,836
Speaker 2: aren't good anymore.

572
00:29:11,876 --> 00:29:14,796
Speaker 1: That's real, man. So there's a lot of the because

573
00:29:14,796 --> 00:29:15,156
Speaker 1: that's the thing.

574
00:29:15,196 --> 00:29:15,476
Speaker 3: They'll be.

575
00:29:15,476 --> 00:29:19,876
Speaker 1: They'll be certain sounds that I like when I'm listening

576
00:29:19,876 --> 00:29:21,676
Speaker 1: to them at the time, I get real tired of

577
00:29:21,716 --> 00:29:23,516
Speaker 1: real fast, and I can't listen to any of it.

578
00:29:23,796 --> 00:29:25,956
Speaker 1: Ten years later, fifteen years later, when all like the

579
00:29:25,996 --> 00:29:29,996
Speaker 1: weakest versions of that style have kind of gone away

580
00:29:30,036 --> 00:29:33,996
Speaker 1: and you only have the cream has risen, and it's like, oh, wait,

581
00:29:34,036 --> 00:29:35,156
Speaker 1: why did I love this shit?

582
00:29:35,196 --> 00:29:35,916
Speaker 3: Actually? Why did I?

583
00:29:35,956 --> 00:29:38,476
Speaker 1: Why did I not listen to it? It's like, oh, because.

584
00:29:38,436 --> 00:29:42,436
Speaker 2: That's that's how it works, the ones that are impactful,

585
00:29:42,836 --> 00:29:45,036
Speaker 2: and and also that's good, that's great. You said it

586
00:29:45,076 --> 00:29:47,876
Speaker 2: like that because like it's also the ones that really

587
00:29:47,956 --> 00:29:51,116
Speaker 2: capture the sound the best. Yes, you know, like from

588
00:29:51,196 --> 00:29:55,796
Speaker 2: the Ratchet era, we have rack City and Loyal. Those

589
00:29:55,836 --> 00:29:59,036
Speaker 2: two songs are gonna be the representatives of that genre

590
00:29:59,076 --> 00:30:02,076
Speaker 2: in twenty years, even though there is and there's a

591
00:30:02,116 --> 00:30:03,596
Speaker 2: couple more.

592
00:30:03,636 --> 00:30:05,716
Speaker 1: It was great time, I got to be honest, I

593
00:30:05,716 --> 00:30:06,076
Speaker 1: don't know.

594
00:30:06,396 --> 00:30:08,876
Speaker 2: It was great. So yeah, there's like probably five, six, seven,

595
00:30:08,876 --> 00:30:10,756
Speaker 2: maybe ten of them songs. It was a thousand that

596
00:30:10,836 --> 00:30:14,316
Speaker 2: came out, the same thing for the nw Jack sound.

597
00:30:14,476 --> 00:30:18,596
Speaker 1: Same thing for New Jack was tough. Like the growing

598
00:30:18,676 --> 00:30:21,396
Speaker 1: up with new Jack was it was just everywhere and

599
00:30:21,436 --> 00:30:23,276
Speaker 1: it kind of got old for me at the time.

600
00:30:23,316 --> 00:30:25,596
Speaker 1: But going back, you're like, yo, I don't know, man.

601
00:30:25,956 --> 00:30:29,516
Speaker 2: Certain ones that we're always gonna play them. And so

602
00:30:29,556 --> 00:30:33,116
Speaker 2: that's my goal is like to make something like that,

603
00:30:33,316 --> 00:30:35,996
Speaker 2: something that is so useful.

604
00:30:36,276 --> 00:30:38,116
Speaker 1: You have a really unique sound though.

605
00:30:37,996 --> 00:30:42,076
Speaker 2: Man, I know, man, well it was unique in the beginning.

606
00:30:42,436 --> 00:30:43,996
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I feel like it still is. Like I

607
00:30:44,036 --> 00:30:46,316
Speaker 1: feel like listening even to this record, like it's clear

608
00:30:46,356 --> 00:30:50,516
Speaker 1: like people make music more like you now, but there's

609
00:30:50,556 --> 00:30:53,556
Speaker 1: still something in you doing it and in your songs

610
00:30:53,556 --> 00:30:56,436
Speaker 1: and then you performing them that make them sound original still,

611
00:30:56,596 --> 00:31:00,276
Speaker 1: you know, and unique. But I maybe we can talk

612
00:31:00,276 --> 00:31:04,156
Speaker 1: about your songwriting. Yeah, your structure is come on very

613
00:31:04,196 --> 00:31:09,756
Speaker 1: different than most songwriter structure. Were you trying to play

614
00:31:09,836 --> 00:31:11,596
Speaker 1: with form or was it just like that's just how

615
00:31:11,596 --> 00:31:12,076
Speaker 1: you heard it.

616
00:31:13,156 --> 00:31:17,116
Speaker 2: No, it's very intentional. When I started, you know, there

617
00:31:17,116 --> 00:31:19,556
Speaker 2: were writers I really admired that. I was trying my

618
00:31:19,636 --> 00:31:23,396
Speaker 2: best to write songs like just like everybody else. Well

619
00:31:23,556 --> 00:31:26,716
Speaker 2: my biggest right at the time I actually got signed

620
00:31:26,756 --> 00:31:29,436
Speaker 2: the Underdogs who I actually ended up getting signed to

621
00:31:29,676 --> 00:31:33,796
Speaker 2: where they were kind of like redefining R and B

622
00:31:33,916 --> 00:31:38,076
Speaker 2: at that time. So I was really like studying their

623
00:31:38,156 --> 00:31:43,116
Speaker 2: music hard and it was unbelievable. I couldn't copy because

624
00:31:43,116 --> 00:31:44,676
Speaker 2: I didn't know how you know what I mean. But

625
00:31:45,276 --> 00:31:47,316
Speaker 2: it was certain little things that I was like, I

626
00:31:47,436 --> 00:31:49,196
Speaker 2: like this, I like that. But then I ended up

627
00:31:49,236 --> 00:31:52,516
Speaker 2: going there and being trained in that style so much

628
00:31:52,556 --> 00:31:53,996
Speaker 2: so that it was like, and don't do it any

629
00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:56,996
Speaker 2: other way either. So that was another like final development.

630
00:31:56,996 --> 00:32:01,236
Speaker 2: But when I got there, people were telling me, even

631
00:32:01,276 --> 00:32:04,236
Speaker 2: though Brandy's one of the best singers ever and really

632
00:32:04,356 --> 00:32:09,276
Speaker 2: foundational to my sound and everything. Also, even like the

633
00:32:09,316 --> 00:32:11,956
Speaker 2: people she wrote with, I consider them like Lashawn Daniels,

634
00:32:11,996 --> 00:32:15,156
Speaker 2: for instance. I consider them to be huge influences on

635
00:32:15,276 --> 00:32:18,276
Speaker 2: my writing. But being the kind of person I am,

636
00:32:18,276 --> 00:32:19,396
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear that shit all day. I

637
00:32:19,436 --> 00:32:20,916
Speaker 2: don't want to hear people telling me I sound like

638
00:32:20,916 --> 00:32:23,116
Speaker 2: Brandy all the time because I'm like, what do you?

639
00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:23,636
Speaker 3: What are you?

640
00:32:23,796 --> 00:32:24,476
Speaker 2: What are you saying?

641
00:32:24,676 --> 00:32:24,916
Speaker 1: You know?

642
00:32:25,956 --> 00:32:29,476
Speaker 2: So I really sat up there for like, and I'm

643
00:32:29,516 --> 00:32:31,996
Speaker 2: still doing it today, Like I'm really like, I was like,

644
00:32:32,076 --> 00:32:35,156
Speaker 2: I want to I want my own sound. It would

645
00:32:35,196 --> 00:32:37,396
Speaker 2: never not have Brandy in it, you know. Like I

646
00:32:37,396 --> 00:32:42,556
Speaker 2: think even while I was consciously developing my sound, that's

647
00:32:42,596 --> 00:32:47,436
Speaker 2: when I discover Imaging Heap and you know, like the

648
00:32:47,516 --> 00:32:50,916
Speaker 2: eighties in general are big, you know. I think that

649
00:32:51,036 --> 00:32:55,156
Speaker 2: was when when humanity really started nailing down what pop

650
00:32:55,356 --> 00:32:58,396
Speaker 2: music really could be. And so that's a big part

651
00:32:58,436 --> 00:33:01,076
Speaker 2: of her style. I can hear too. But when I

652
00:33:01,116 --> 00:33:04,276
Speaker 2: heard Imaging Heap, it was like, Okay, this is what

653
00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:06,036
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do, you know what I mean?

654
00:33:06,156 --> 00:33:09,516
Speaker 1: Sense because you got that real the soul thiss of

655
00:33:09,516 --> 00:33:12,156
Speaker 1: a Brandy with those weird sounds that you might hear,

656
00:33:12,956 --> 00:33:15,756
Speaker 1: and the productions are big, like like like the best

657
00:33:15,916 --> 00:33:16,596
Speaker 1: because I.

658
00:33:16,556 --> 00:33:18,396
Speaker 2: Am from the hood too, you know what I'm saying.

659
00:33:18,476 --> 00:33:21,596
Speaker 2: But also that's another funny thing about the Hood experience

660
00:33:21,716 --> 00:33:24,916
Speaker 2: is like gangsters love music. Man, Like I was getting

661
00:33:24,956 --> 00:33:27,676
Speaker 2: a great you know, I was learning a lot about me.

662
00:33:27,716 --> 00:33:29,316
Speaker 2: I think the first person that really, my mom was

663
00:33:29,316 --> 00:33:31,196
Speaker 2: the first person to try to convince me that Prince

664
00:33:31,316 --> 00:33:34,156
Speaker 2: was somebody actually get into. But it was really like

665
00:33:34,196 --> 00:33:36,956
Speaker 2: a bunch of thugs. I was riding around blasting prints

666
00:33:37,076 --> 00:33:40,076
Speaker 2: out of lowriders that I was like, let me check this.

667
00:33:40,116 --> 00:33:42,036
Speaker 1: Outber my dad trying to put me on the DJ

668
00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:45,356
Speaker 1: quick by telling me of the best Prince of hip hop.

669
00:33:45,716 --> 00:33:47,796
Speaker 3: He's just like Prince. It was right.

670
00:33:47,916 --> 00:33:50,516
Speaker 2: He was like, Rhythmalism is one of the best albums

671
00:33:50,516 --> 00:33:53,716
Speaker 2: I ever heard of my whole entire life, hands down,

672
00:33:53,756 --> 00:33:56,836
Speaker 2: including every type of music I've ever heard. That's like

673
00:33:56,996 --> 00:33:59,036
Speaker 2: top five albums for me.

674
00:33:59,396 --> 00:34:00,436
Speaker 1: It's amazing stuff.

675
00:34:00,516 --> 00:34:00,916
Speaker 3: Man.

676
00:34:01,196 --> 00:34:05,076
Speaker 2: I really talk about Dave Hollister as an influence with

677
00:34:05,116 --> 00:34:08,436
Speaker 2: that was a big influence. And he's doing like soul

678
00:34:08,556 --> 00:34:11,636
Speaker 2: gospel kind of singing, and I was really getting into that.

679
00:34:12,756 --> 00:34:16,356
Speaker 2: Michael Franks is a big influence on you know. The

680
00:34:16,436 --> 00:34:18,796
Speaker 2: least people I come in contact are familiar with Michael Franks.

681
00:34:18,836 --> 00:34:21,316
Speaker 2: But I also know some ghetto people that I'm not

682
00:34:21,356 --> 00:34:25,356
Speaker 2: the only one in the hood, mister Franks that listens

683
00:34:25,476 --> 00:34:29,076
Speaker 2: to your music. But you know, I just had all

684
00:34:29,116 --> 00:34:32,516
Speaker 2: these different influences. And basically there's two things one. Singing

685
00:34:32,516 --> 00:34:36,116
Speaker 2: and writing is night and day skills. They don't go together.

686
00:34:36,396 --> 00:34:38,876
Speaker 2: Most of the big writers that have ever lived were

687
00:34:38,876 --> 00:34:42,116
Speaker 2: not great singers. Most of the great singers I know about,

688
00:34:42,156 --> 00:34:45,276
Speaker 2: we're not great writers. So those are two different things

689
00:34:45,276 --> 00:34:47,756
Speaker 2: I had to study, you know, Like my story of

690
00:34:48,636 --> 00:34:50,996
Speaker 2: my singing style is a different path.

691
00:34:51,516 --> 00:34:53,116
Speaker 1: But you wanted to have both, You wanted to have

692
00:34:53,236 --> 00:34:54,196
Speaker 1: singing and songwriter.

693
00:34:54,276 --> 00:34:56,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a choice. You know, you can't choose

694
00:34:56,156 --> 00:34:57,716
Speaker 2: it if you can sing or not, you know what I mean.

695
00:34:57,836 --> 00:34:59,516
Speaker 2: So I just happened to be at one with it.

696
00:35:00,156 --> 00:35:02,516
Speaker 2: But I love books, and I'm a nerd, so I'm

697
00:35:02,556 --> 00:35:06,956
Speaker 2: into words and tone and writing, and like I was

698
00:35:06,996 --> 00:35:09,916
Speaker 2: already an avid reader, you know what I mean. So

699
00:35:10,236 --> 00:35:14,236
Speaker 2: I was I already was interested in the process of writing,

700
00:35:14,316 --> 00:35:18,236
Speaker 2: like you know, like literary writing. But as far as songwriting,

701
00:35:18,276 --> 00:35:21,476
Speaker 2: before I started really writing songs, my favorite writer was

702
00:35:21,516 --> 00:35:25,876
Speaker 2: probably where it now. Every song I wrote before, including

703
00:35:25,916 --> 00:35:28,956
Speaker 2: my first song, I wrote period. My first song was

704
00:35:28,996 --> 00:35:32,036
Speaker 2: a joke because like, you know, that's all, that's what

705
00:35:32,236 --> 00:35:33,876
Speaker 2: writing was to me. I didn't know it was a job.

706
00:35:33,956 --> 00:35:36,036
Speaker 2: So the only things I ever wrote were like parodies

707
00:35:36,676 --> 00:35:38,636
Speaker 2: like the Hot Boys. I wrote a song called hot

708
00:35:38,676 --> 00:35:43,556
Speaker 2: Breath when I was and uh in high school like that.

709
00:35:44,196 --> 00:35:48,676
Speaker 2: It was just a hot breath, the hot Breath. I

710
00:35:48,676 --> 00:35:51,356
Speaker 2: remember like writing the verses out and everything because I

711
00:35:51,396 --> 00:35:51,956
Speaker 2: love where it. Now.

712
00:35:53,436 --> 00:35:55,356
Speaker 1: We're gonna pause for another quick break and then we'll

713
00:35:55,356 --> 00:36:02,276
Speaker 1: be back with more from James font Leroy. We're back

714
00:36:02,316 --> 00:36:05,076
Speaker 1: with the rest of my conversation with James font Leroy.

715
00:36:06,036 --> 00:36:08,356
Speaker 1: When did songwriting become a thing you knew that you

716
00:36:08,396 --> 00:36:11,076
Speaker 1: could do, like as a career, Like, when did that

717
00:36:11,116 --> 00:36:12,596
Speaker 1: become like I want to do this?

718
00:36:13,316 --> 00:36:15,076
Speaker 2: Well, it was when I found out you could get paid,

719
00:36:15,236 --> 00:36:16,596
Speaker 2: you know what. I'm seen somebody pull up in a

720
00:36:16,676 --> 00:36:19,116
Speaker 2: nice car with a nice outfit on a nice this

721
00:36:19,236 --> 00:36:20,836
Speaker 2: and that, and I was like, what's up, what's going

722
00:36:20,836 --> 00:36:23,636
Speaker 2: on over here? And so that's when I found out

723
00:36:23,676 --> 00:36:27,396
Speaker 2: because I was at a publisher's I was at Universal's

724
00:36:27,636 --> 00:36:32,076
Speaker 2: publishing studio. They had a recording studio, and I had

725
00:36:32,116 --> 00:36:34,476
Speaker 2: actually been there before singing a demo for somebody right

726
00:36:34,516 --> 00:36:38,596
Speaker 2: before I actually had my first like writing session there,

727
00:36:39,076 --> 00:36:42,116
Speaker 2: and I just had no idea about what publishing was,

728
00:36:42,116 --> 00:36:44,196
Speaker 2: the pubishing deals and admin and all this stuff. So

729
00:36:44,196 --> 00:36:46,876
Speaker 2: when I found out what it was, I got on

730
00:36:46,916 --> 00:36:49,316
Speaker 2: the internet and I researched it so thoroughly that when

731
00:36:49,316 --> 00:36:52,956
Speaker 2: I got my first terrible deal, I told my lawyer.

732
00:36:52,996 --> 00:36:54,476
Speaker 2: I was like, Yo, this is bad right, and he

733
00:36:54,556 --> 00:36:55,796
Speaker 2: was like, I don't know the hell you think you are.

734
00:36:55,836 --> 00:36:58,596
Speaker 2: You need to sign that shit. So I actually got

735
00:36:58,636 --> 00:37:01,076
Speaker 2: to make a decision on the spot. I was like,

736
00:37:01,116 --> 00:37:03,396
Speaker 2: do I want to take this bad deal and get

737
00:37:03,396 --> 00:37:07,156
Speaker 2: the opportunities, which I don't suggest other people do that,

738
00:37:07,236 --> 00:37:10,436
Speaker 2: but they ended up working out for me because it

739
00:37:10,516 --> 00:37:11,036
Speaker 2: was worth it.

740
00:37:11,156 --> 00:37:13,916
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was worth just getting your foot in the door.

741
00:37:13,996 --> 00:37:17,436
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it doesn't always work like that. I've seen the

742
00:37:17,516 --> 00:37:20,916
Speaker 2: majority of people in those situations. They end up so

743
00:37:21,596 --> 00:37:26,156
Speaker 2: dejected that they they can't function after they realized because

744
00:37:26,156 --> 00:37:30,236
Speaker 2: everybody has this moment where you realize you signed something

745
00:37:30,276 --> 00:37:32,796
Speaker 2: that wasn't in your best interest. And I remember one

746
00:37:32,796 --> 00:37:34,596
Speaker 2: time talking to my publisher about it, even though knew

747
00:37:34,636 --> 00:37:35,876
Speaker 2: the deal was fucked up when I got it, But

748
00:37:36,276 --> 00:37:38,036
Speaker 2: I remember talking to my publisher about it, and I

749
00:37:38,076 --> 00:37:39,676
Speaker 2: was like, why did you think? I've said this to

750
00:37:39,716 --> 00:37:43,396
Speaker 2: several people in the music business. I said, why do

751
00:37:43,516 --> 00:37:45,516
Speaker 2: you think this is? Okay?

752
00:37:45,956 --> 00:37:47,996
Speaker 1: That's a great question, you.

753
00:37:47,956 --> 00:37:51,556
Speaker 2: Know what I mean. And the typical answer is, this

754
00:37:51,636 --> 00:37:54,556
Speaker 2: is how it happened to me. This is how it's done,

755
00:37:54,676 --> 00:37:56,956
Speaker 2: which is actually what made me want to start the

756
00:37:56,996 --> 00:37:59,036
Speaker 2: school and get into education and all this other stuff

757
00:37:59,076 --> 00:38:01,516
Speaker 2: I got going on. But my publisher was like, well,

758
00:38:01,556 --> 00:38:04,756
Speaker 2: we didn't know you, and I was like what, And

759
00:38:04,796 --> 00:38:07,556
Speaker 2: so I always since then, I've been like two things. One,

760
00:38:08,396 --> 00:38:11,476
Speaker 2: if you do better business and it turns out bad,

761
00:38:11,596 --> 00:38:13,676
Speaker 2: then you know at least you did your best. If

762
00:38:13,676 --> 00:38:15,636
Speaker 2: you do good business and it turns out well, then

763
00:38:15,676 --> 00:38:19,276
Speaker 2: you just exponentially multiply what you can do with that person.

764
00:38:19,996 --> 00:38:20,796
Speaker 3: And if you just.

765
00:38:20,716 --> 00:38:23,916
Speaker 2: Want to be a criminal, you know, no judgment, but

766
00:38:24,396 --> 00:38:30,836
Speaker 2: rob them in the end, not in the beginning. Why

767
00:38:30,876 --> 00:38:33,996
Speaker 2: are you so dumb if you really think this person's

768
00:38:34,036 --> 00:38:36,916
Speaker 2: worth robbing, why would you steal them their money when

769
00:38:36,916 --> 00:38:38,596
Speaker 2: they have one hundred and fifty thousand versus when they

770
00:38:38,596 --> 00:38:42,356
Speaker 2: have fifteen million. Ye're crazy? H So that that's why

771
00:38:42,316 --> 00:38:44,356
Speaker 2: all your criminals out there, that's a free one.

772
00:38:45,156 --> 00:38:46,876
Speaker 1: Do you think the music industry is fixable?

773
00:38:47,836 --> 00:38:52,116
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I don't think it's fixable at all.

774
00:38:52,156 --> 00:38:55,596
Speaker 2: I think it's just business, you know what I mean,

775
00:38:55,676 --> 00:39:01,156
Speaker 2: Like the music part is it's it's not even important.

776
00:39:01,236 --> 00:39:03,316
Speaker 2: And that's evident in the fact that we haven't had

777
00:39:03,356 --> 00:39:07,676
Speaker 2: any new superstars really for the last decade, and it's

778
00:39:07,796 --> 00:39:10,756
Speaker 2: solely because that's not in the best interests of the machine.

779
00:39:11,596 --> 00:39:12,996
Speaker 1: How do you feel, I mean, I'll say, as a

780
00:39:13,156 --> 00:39:14,916
Speaker 1: just as a person who's a fan of music, the

781
00:39:14,956 --> 00:39:18,076
Speaker 1: fact that there's have been no true superstars built over

782
00:39:18,076 --> 00:39:20,556
Speaker 1: the last built or put out or come out or

783
00:39:20,596 --> 00:39:23,756
Speaker 1: come about over the last decade, it's a drag man.

784
00:39:24,676 --> 00:39:27,356
Speaker 2: It is man And basically it's just it just takes

785
00:39:27,396 --> 00:39:32,556
Speaker 2: time because the Internet has been rearranging everything since it

786
00:39:32,596 --> 00:39:35,476
Speaker 2: popped off. Because basically, right now, like you know, you

787
00:39:35,556 --> 00:39:40,196
Speaker 2: have Internet fame, which doesn't translate into international market and

788
00:39:40,276 --> 00:39:44,396
Speaker 2: right now, the label systems have territory partners that they

789
00:39:44,396 --> 00:39:48,716
Speaker 2: can make an act a global priority, meaning like you know,

790
00:39:49,076 --> 00:39:51,676
Speaker 2: their partners in different territories will open up budgets to

791
00:39:52,156 --> 00:39:55,836
Speaker 2: market that person in different territories, which then creates a

792
00:39:55,876 --> 00:40:00,556
Speaker 2: global superstar. Yeah, and so I think that the way

793
00:40:00,596 --> 00:40:04,716
Speaker 2: the Internet is closing all these bridges and gaps, you're

794
00:40:04,716 --> 00:40:08,436
Speaker 2: going to start having people who are recreating the environment

795
00:40:08,436 --> 00:40:11,476
Speaker 2: without the need of that system. And so the labels

796
00:40:11,476 --> 00:40:14,116
Speaker 2: are aware and they figured out a lot of really

797
00:40:14,156 --> 00:40:18,356
Speaker 2: smart Like I'm not angry at the labels, like I

798
00:40:18,396 --> 00:40:21,156
Speaker 2: always hear my collaborators, especially all of us, because all

799
00:40:21,196 --> 00:40:23,956
Speaker 2: of us have much money, we have left, We're making

800
00:40:23,956 --> 00:40:26,956
Speaker 2: millions of dollars, you know what I mean, So I

801
00:40:26,996 --> 00:40:28,356
Speaker 2: don't have emotions about it.

802
00:40:28,556 --> 00:40:31,036
Speaker 1: I just also feel like music's better when there's a

803
00:40:31,076 --> 00:40:32,116
Speaker 1: strong label system.

804
00:40:32,156 --> 00:40:34,476
Speaker 2: But it's alway but like, oh yeah, they don't feel

805
00:40:34,476 --> 00:40:38,716
Speaker 2: any sense of responsibility to the art, which I do.

806
00:40:38,836 --> 00:40:40,796
Speaker 2: So that's a big part of everything I'm doing is

807
00:40:40,836 --> 00:40:44,116
Speaker 2: like I feel because all the people that came before

808
00:40:44,156 --> 00:40:46,076
Speaker 2: me had such an impact on me that I could

809
00:40:46,076 --> 00:40:49,076
Speaker 2: go from zero to traveling the world and having money

810
00:40:49,116 --> 00:40:51,076
Speaker 2: and doing all this, I'm like, who's going to do

811
00:40:51,116 --> 00:40:53,076
Speaker 2: that for the next people? So that's why I'm like

812
00:40:53,916 --> 00:40:57,676
Speaker 2: really working hard to fill in that gap and really

813
00:40:57,916 --> 00:41:00,396
Speaker 2: trying to support and work with other people that feel

814
00:41:00,436 --> 00:41:03,036
Speaker 2: like that, which is almost every collaborator I had that

815
00:41:03,156 --> 00:41:06,036
Speaker 2: people name when they name who I worked with. It's

816
00:41:06,076 --> 00:41:09,236
Speaker 2: a bunch of people who are also really concerned with

817
00:41:09,396 --> 00:41:12,196
Speaker 2: preserving the art, you know, like Bruno is one of

818
00:41:12,196 --> 00:41:15,836
Speaker 2: the best examples, Like every superstar though, like all the

819
00:41:15,836 --> 00:41:18,916
Speaker 2: people that are on my list of people that I

820
00:41:18,956 --> 00:41:21,516
Speaker 2: worked with, one thing I noticed they all have in

821
00:41:21,556 --> 00:41:25,156
Speaker 2: common is they're all like music historians, every single one

822
00:41:25,156 --> 00:41:25,436
Speaker 2: of them.

823
00:41:25,556 --> 00:41:31,596
Speaker 1: Justin Timberlake, he's one of them, absolutely, Beyonce, Beyonce.

824
00:41:31,756 --> 00:41:35,796
Speaker 2: Like just expert. They could all teach Ivy League classes

825
00:41:35,836 --> 00:41:39,196
Speaker 2: on music history, all of them.

826
00:41:39,276 --> 00:41:43,916
Speaker 1: What does that bring to writing sessions or recording sessions?

827
00:41:43,956 --> 00:41:49,476
Speaker 2: Wisdom? You know, like knowing what works and knowing the

828
00:41:49,556 --> 00:41:52,756
Speaker 2: rules enough to recreate them or break them or bend

829
00:41:52,836 --> 00:41:55,756
Speaker 2: them or whatever. And you just have to do that.

830
00:41:55,836 --> 00:41:58,996
Speaker 2: If you want to make something new, you have to

831
00:41:59,116 --> 00:42:03,716
Speaker 2: understand what came before it. Yeah, that's not a super

832
00:42:03,756 --> 00:42:06,596
Speaker 2: popular thing on the planet Earth, but the people that

833
00:42:06,796 --> 00:42:09,676
Speaker 2: know that have advantage.

834
00:42:09,916 --> 00:42:12,716
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's starting to change. It feels like this hip

835
00:42:12,716 --> 00:42:15,036
Speaker 1: hop fiftieth thing has been cool. It's been great to

836
00:42:15,036 --> 00:42:18,596
Speaker 1: see people embrace artists that I think before we're just

837
00:42:18,676 --> 00:42:20,756
Speaker 1: kind of aligned as like it's like that's old This

838
00:42:20,836 --> 00:42:23,716
Speaker 1: old school's wax it's you know, it's like, but it

839
00:42:23,716 --> 00:42:26,076
Speaker 1: feels like there's a lot of good will going towards

840
00:42:26,276 --> 00:42:28,396
Speaker 1: our legends these days, and so.

841
00:42:28,436 --> 00:42:30,676
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see that too, But that's just really that's

842
00:42:30,756 --> 00:42:34,236
Speaker 2: that's the mainstream and public perception. But the truth is,

843
00:42:35,116 --> 00:42:39,236
Speaker 2: you know, like whoever the biggest young rapper, like a

844
00:42:39,316 --> 00:42:42,996
Speaker 2: TikTok guy or whoever you want to name, they don't

845
00:42:43,036 --> 00:42:47,276
Speaker 2: have as successful a global touring career as the Wu

846
00:42:47,356 --> 00:42:49,956
Speaker 2: Tang clan, you know what I mean. So even when

847
00:42:49,996 --> 00:42:54,116
Speaker 2: we were all not looking the world, because even the world,

848
00:42:54,156 --> 00:42:56,156
Speaker 2: we all have this tendency to look through the lens

849
00:42:56,236 --> 00:43:00,236
Speaker 2: of America. But the fact is that you're not going

850
00:43:00,316 --> 00:43:03,476
Speaker 2: to find too many of these TikTok guys doing global

851
00:43:03,996 --> 00:43:06,796
Speaker 2: dates versus these old guys they've been out here getting

852
00:43:06,836 --> 00:43:11,396
Speaker 2: this money. Yeah, I think he's good that the Internet

853
00:43:11,476 --> 00:43:16,236
Speaker 2: is peeling away all sorts of machines and industry's ability

854
00:43:16,316 --> 00:43:19,316
Speaker 2: to tell you that something is one way when it's

855
00:43:19,356 --> 00:43:19,876
Speaker 2: really nothing.

856
00:43:19,876 --> 00:43:22,396
Speaker 1: And I also think too, like to an earlier point,

857
00:43:22,796 --> 00:43:25,716
Speaker 1: you're twenty years in just about releasing your debut album,

858
00:43:25,996 --> 00:43:29,396
Speaker 1: there really is no timeline anymore. Like the fact, like

859
00:43:29,756 --> 00:43:32,836
Speaker 1: if we dropped a really good album this year, people

860
00:43:32,876 --> 00:43:36,276
Speaker 1: would bang it just as hard as right as that.

861
00:43:36,396 --> 00:43:41,116
Speaker 1: It's by nods these last right like some of the

862
00:43:41,116 --> 00:43:43,676
Speaker 1: best music NAS has ever done. It sounds as relevant

863
00:43:43,716 --> 00:43:46,716
Speaker 1: as ever. People loved it as much as anything new

864
00:43:46,756 --> 00:43:47,876
Speaker 1: that came out, and he.

865
00:43:48,316 --> 00:43:50,556
Speaker 2: Boy was nominated for Partucer the year off.

866
00:43:50,436 --> 00:43:53,116
Speaker 1: Of that deserved. Hell, yeah, deserved.

867
00:43:53,316 --> 00:43:55,476
Speaker 2: He should get it every year. That's my boy. He's

868
00:43:55,516 --> 00:43:55,956
Speaker 2: on fire.

869
00:43:56,156 --> 00:43:57,996
Speaker 1: I talked to him a few months ago just because

870
00:43:57,996 --> 00:44:00,396
Speaker 1: I was so I was so pumped on those NOS records.

871
00:44:00,476 --> 00:44:03,476
Speaker 2: I met him to day zero. I met him when

872
00:44:03,476 --> 00:44:05,596
Speaker 2: I was trying to get the publishing did with the Underdogs.

873
00:44:06,236 --> 00:44:08,076
Speaker 2: That's when we met, so I know him from my

874
00:44:08,116 --> 00:44:08,596
Speaker 2: whole entire.

875
00:44:08,756 --> 00:44:10,116
Speaker 1: Was he also trying to get a deal there?

876
00:44:10,956 --> 00:44:11,916
Speaker 3: That's a funny story.

877
00:44:11,956 --> 00:44:14,036
Speaker 2: Actually, I don't know if he talks about the fact

878
00:44:14,076 --> 00:44:15,876
Speaker 2: that it used to be hit boys. Did he tell

879
00:44:15,876 --> 00:44:19,716
Speaker 2: you that, Yeah, it used to be two of them. No, Ill,

880
00:44:20,876 --> 00:44:22,756
Speaker 2: it used to be two hit boys and one of

881
00:44:22,756 --> 00:44:27,156
Speaker 2: them left to what we thought was signing to deal

882
00:44:27,156 --> 00:44:29,636
Speaker 2: with the Underdogs, which ended up to be actually not

883
00:44:29,716 --> 00:44:30,076
Speaker 2: the case.

884
00:44:30,116 --> 00:44:33,076
Speaker 1: But yeah, we did talk about his his initial bad

885
00:44:33,996 --> 00:44:34,596
Speaker 1: We all.

886
00:44:34,476 --> 00:44:38,396
Speaker 2: Were trying to everybody. Basically, it was like, it was

887
00:44:38,436 --> 00:44:41,196
Speaker 2: in this building that now Diane Warren owns that Babyface

888
00:44:41,276 --> 00:44:44,436
Speaker 2: used to own that used to be Solar even Dick

889
00:44:44,476 --> 00:44:48,356
Speaker 2: Griffy right, yep, it's on Hollywood and Kowana Wow. And

890
00:44:48,436 --> 00:44:52,396
Speaker 2: so the underdogs had the third floor because they have

891
00:44:52,396 --> 00:44:55,556
Speaker 2: a relationship Babyface with subt. I shout out to Babyface,

892
00:44:55,916 --> 00:44:58,916
Speaker 2: it's one of the greats. Why I consider him the top.

893
00:44:59,676 --> 00:45:01,796
Speaker 2: I consider me the top if I'm being totally honest.

894
00:45:02,596 --> 00:45:05,956
Speaker 3: But if I'm taking myself, I think you need twenty

895
00:45:05,996 --> 00:45:06,476
Speaker 3: more years.

896
00:45:06,476 --> 00:45:06,676
Speaker 1: Man.

897
00:45:07,076 --> 00:45:07,996
Speaker 3: I love you know.

898
00:45:08,036 --> 00:45:10,556
Speaker 2: I talked to about this. I said, yo, man, I

899
00:45:10,556 --> 00:45:13,716
Speaker 2: can never be Babyface, Like, what's how can I even

900
00:45:13,876 --> 00:45:16,356
Speaker 2: do it? And he was like, he said, really, how

901
00:45:16,396 --> 00:45:18,996
Speaker 2: you need to think about it is that because I've

902
00:45:19,036 --> 00:45:22,036
Speaker 2: been doing this so long, there's things that I've done

903
00:45:22,036 --> 00:45:24,756
Speaker 2: that you just can't do. He was like, you can't

904
00:45:24,796 --> 00:45:27,516
Speaker 2: work with Whitney Houston, you know what I mean. So

905
00:45:27,596 --> 00:45:29,956
Speaker 2: you can't We can't match each other on that in

906
00:45:29,996 --> 00:45:32,316
Speaker 2: that regard. But he was like, the same thing will

907
00:45:32,396 --> 00:45:33,756
Speaker 2: be true for you one day.

908
00:45:33,996 --> 00:45:36,116
Speaker 1: Twenty years though. Beyonce and Rihanna, they're gonna be the

909
00:45:36,116 --> 00:45:37,916
Speaker 1: way we think of Whitney now which is like.

910
00:45:37,916 --> 00:45:39,916
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Like, so you know I'm

911
00:45:39,956 --> 00:45:42,836
Speaker 2: Babyface now Babyface. Yeah, I'm gonna let you hold on

912
00:45:42,876 --> 00:45:44,396
Speaker 2: to the name because you earned it.

913
00:45:44,996 --> 00:45:46,236
Speaker 1: Did you always love his music?

914
00:45:46,836 --> 00:45:50,436
Speaker 2: Absolutely as an artist before I knew he was writing

915
00:45:50,476 --> 00:45:52,996
Speaker 2: everything under the sun. Who was the first person I

916
00:45:53,036 --> 00:45:55,476
Speaker 2: heard about doing a catalog sales? So that's how you

917
00:45:55,476 --> 00:45:58,316
Speaker 2: even learned that that existed. And that was probably sixteen

918
00:45:58,396 --> 00:46:01,196
Speaker 2: seventeen years ago, and he recouped it, which is just

919
00:46:02,236 --> 00:46:05,756
Speaker 2: that's not even a thing today. So you know, statistically

920
00:46:05,876 --> 00:46:11,996
Speaker 2: he's we can't argue if he's as far as uh writing,

921
00:46:12,516 --> 00:46:13,556
Speaker 2: he's my number one.

922
00:46:13,636 --> 00:46:15,196
Speaker 1: I know, as far as my taste, he's got to

923
00:46:15,196 --> 00:46:16,836
Speaker 1: be one of the great songwriters of all time.

924
00:46:16,916 --> 00:46:19,836
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, I think he's number one, especially just from

925
00:46:19,916 --> 00:46:22,996
Speaker 2: writing standpoint. But then, like you know, my top guys

926
00:46:23,036 --> 00:46:26,556
Speaker 2: are baby Face. It's me, It's me five times, but

927
00:46:26,556 --> 00:46:31,076
Speaker 2: it's baby Face. What's six to ten, it's baby Face,

928
00:46:32,476 --> 00:46:39,076
Speaker 2: Stevie Wonder, John Mayor. I feel like we're not taking John.

929
00:46:39,996 --> 00:46:42,836
Speaker 1: Way to say I'm gonna keep keep going, Wenna, we

930
00:46:42,876 --> 00:46:43,716
Speaker 1: can go back.

931
00:46:43,876 --> 00:46:49,556
Speaker 2: So baby Face, Stevie Wonder, John Mayor, Prince And then

932
00:46:49,596 --> 00:46:50,716
Speaker 2: I'll say Diane Warren.

933
00:46:50,916 --> 00:46:52,956
Speaker 1: All right, I love John Mayer. We go go back

934
00:46:52,996 --> 00:46:55,996
Speaker 1: to that? Is that in order? No, okay, that's good.

935
00:46:56,156 --> 00:46:56,476
Speaker 4: I don't know.

936
00:46:56,476 --> 00:46:58,836
Speaker 1: I mean Stevie, I love baby Face, but it's hard

937
00:46:58,876 --> 00:46:59,596
Speaker 1: to put.

938
00:46:59,836 --> 00:47:02,596
Speaker 2: Well, Stevie Wonder got a bunch of songs about singing ship.

939
00:47:02,796 --> 00:47:05,756
Speaker 2: So who could be who can compete with that? How

940
00:47:05,796 --> 00:47:08,956
Speaker 2: we're gonna beat that one? You just you're not You're

941
00:47:08,956 --> 00:47:10,796
Speaker 2: not going to get to that level of creativity.

942
00:47:10,876 --> 00:47:12,636
Speaker 1: What is it about John Mayer that you feel like?

943
00:47:12,676 --> 00:47:14,516
Speaker 1: Put the other the other four? I mean, I love

944
00:47:15,876 --> 00:47:16,356
Speaker 1: but I'm.

945
00:47:16,236 --> 00:47:19,076
Speaker 2: Telling you John Mayer is on the same level. He's

946
00:47:19,116 --> 00:47:23,476
Speaker 2: one of the best writers ever on earth, to ever live, period,

947
00:47:24,676 --> 00:47:27,116
Speaker 2: and he's also an amazing singer and arranger and musician.

948
00:47:27,196 --> 00:47:30,036
Speaker 2: He's like unbelievable. I would say, you think you got a.

949
00:47:29,956 --> 00:47:32,356
Speaker 1: Song as good as anything on the Waiting to Excel soundtrack?

950
00:47:32,996 --> 00:47:35,196
Speaker 2: I think it's more than one. Yeah, yeah, like Stop

951
00:47:35,276 --> 00:47:35,716
Speaker 2: this Train?

952
00:47:36,996 --> 00:47:39,196
Speaker 1: You know that song Stop the Trains Continuum?

953
00:47:39,236 --> 00:47:42,356
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't. I don't know what what song we

954
00:47:42,396 --> 00:47:44,836
Speaker 2: could confidently say is better than that song? You would

955
00:47:44,836 --> 00:47:46,956
Speaker 2: have to be as good as that song. I'm just

956
00:47:46,996 --> 00:47:48,916
Speaker 2: telling you, as one of the greatest writers of all.

957
00:47:48,796 --> 00:47:54,356
Speaker 1: Time as one, two, five, Yeah, that song, it's that's

958
00:47:54,476 --> 00:47:55,836
Speaker 1: just that's it's a good song.

959
00:47:56,516 --> 00:48:00,116
Speaker 2: It's a great song. It's it's a song that captures

960
00:48:00,516 --> 00:48:04,156
Speaker 2: the human condition in a way that's almost impossible to

961
00:48:04,236 --> 00:48:11,436
Speaker 2: do in a digestible format. It's relatable, it's introspective, it's

962
00:48:11,556 --> 00:48:15,836
Speaker 2: musically incredible, it's proof that he's one of the greatest

963
00:48:15,836 --> 00:48:16,716
Speaker 2: writers of all times.

964
00:48:16,756 --> 00:48:18,436
Speaker 1: It's definitely one of the great albums.

965
00:48:19,156 --> 00:48:22,396
Speaker 2: That whole album, I mean, his first album, What Come.

966
00:48:22,276 --> 00:48:24,036
Speaker 1: On Continuum has got to be his top.

967
00:48:23,956 --> 00:48:26,716
Speaker 2: Contenue is definitely best album. But his first album, he

968
00:48:26,796 --> 00:48:30,116
Speaker 2: was letting us know right there. He's still on every song.

969
00:48:30,236 --> 00:48:31,796
Speaker 2: The first one I heard was the first single that

970
00:48:31,956 --> 00:48:35,836
Speaker 2: was by these in Wonderland was the second one, if

971
00:48:35,836 --> 00:48:37,956
Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, because the first one was I Want

972
00:48:37,996 --> 00:48:40,956
Speaker 2: to Run through the halls of my high school. So

973
00:48:40,996 --> 00:48:43,396
Speaker 2: that one I was like, that got and this is

974
00:48:43,396 --> 00:48:45,556
Speaker 2: before I was even writing, and that got my attention,

975
00:48:45,716 --> 00:48:48,076
Speaker 2: like what's going on here? But then when I heard

976
00:48:48,076 --> 00:48:50,676
Speaker 2: your Body's Wonderland, I was like, so, you know what,

977
00:48:50,716 --> 00:48:52,516
Speaker 2: I want to add him to my list of influences

978
00:48:52,556 --> 00:48:55,636
Speaker 2: because I really think about how he writes as like

979
00:48:55,716 --> 00:48:57,996
Speaker 2: a great example of all these things I'm talking about,

980
00:48:57,996 --> 00:49:01,396
Speaker 2: as far as like adhering to the examples that all

981
00:49:01,396 --> 00:49:04,716
Speaker 2: these grades have set before us and then doing it

982
00:49:04,876 --> 00:49:07,396
Speaker 2: his own way. I think he's up there.

983
00:49:07,476 --> 00:49:10,156
Speaker 1: What about you as a guitar player, Oh.

984
00:49:09,836 --> 00:49:13,556
Speaker 2: I suck, dude, Like I just loved the guitar. I'm

985
00:49:13,596 --> 00:49:15,236
Speaker 2: so in love with the guitar, so I've been playing

986
00:49:15,236 --> 00:49:18,236
Speaker 2: it now for a long time. But I'll never forgive man.

987
00:49:18,276 --> 00:49:19,996
Speaker 2: I did this show because when I first I taught

988
00:49:20,036 --> 00:49:22,076
Speaker 2: myself the guitar as an adult, and I just had

989
00:49:22,076 --> 00:49:23,436
Speaker 2: it in the car with me and the band with

990
00:49:23,476 --> 00:49:25,516
Speaker 2: me everywhere. I'm just strumming it and fucking with it.

991
00:49:26,076 --> 00:49:29,196
Speaker 2: And then I wrote this project called String Theory because

992
00:49:29,196 --> 00:49:33,876
Speaker 2: I'm a nerd, and I performed it at this this

993
00:49:33,996 --> 00:49:36,356
Speaker 2: venue called No Name that was on Fairfax back in

994
00:49:36,356 --> 00:49:41,116
Speaker 2: the day. And I don't even know if Robert Cavallo

995
00:49:41,276 --> 00:49:43,676
Speaker 2: remembers this. This is my I love him to death,

996
00:49:43,796 --> 00:49:46,556
Speaker 2: like I just talked to I went to his birthday

997
00:49:46,636 --> 00:49:49,196
Speaker 2: last year and I told him the Dookie Green Day

998
00:49:49,196 --> 00:49:50,996
Speaker 2: poster is the only music poster I ever had on

999
00:49:50,996 --> 00:49:51,836
Speaker 2: my wall in my life.

1000
00:49:51,836 --> 00:49:52,236
Speaker 1: Wow.

1001
00:49:52,796 --> 00:49:55,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the only music poster I ever had. I

1002
00:49:55,116 --> 00:49:56,916
Speaker 2: was a big fan of Green Day and a bunch

1003
00:49:56,996 --> 00:49:59,796
Speaker 2: of things at that time. But I don't even know

1004
00:49:59,836 --> 00:50:01,516
Speaker 2: if he knows this, because I met him several times he.

1005
00:50:01,556 --> 00:50:02,396
Speaker 1: Produced that record.

1006
00:50:02,556 --> 00:50:05,236
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went to his house when I first started

1007
00:50:05,236 --> 00:50:08,396
Speaker 2: writing with Justin Lake and we had a funny exchange there.

1008
00:50:09,156 --> 00:50:10,596
Speaker 2: But he walked up to me at the show. I

1009
00:50:10,636 --> 00:50:12,756
Speaker 2: don't even know if your members of this, but after

1010
00:50:12,796 --> 00:50:14,676
Speaker 2: I perform my this is my first time performing live

1011
00:50:14,756 --> 00:50:17,356
Speaker 2: playing the guitar, and he walks up to me. He's like,

1012
00:50:17,436 --> 00:50:20,476
Speaker 2: you don't know who I am, but I'm a pretty

1013
00:50:20,476 --> 00:50:24,196
Speaker 2: successful rock producer and I can tell you don't know

1014
00:50:24,236 --> 00:50:27,036
Speaker 2: how to play the guitar. And I was like, you know,

1015
00:50:27,076 --> 00:50:29,516
Speaker 2: oh shit, I'm caught. And he was like, and I

1016
00:50:29,596 --> 00:50:33,196
Speaker 2: really wanna tell you that you're a genius. He was like,

1017
00:50:34,436 --> 00:50:36,076
Speaker 2: I can tell you don't know what you're doing, but

1018
00:50:36,436 --> 00:50:38,796
Speaker 2: the fact that you figured this out ay and and

1019
00:50:38,916 --> 00:50:42,956
Speaker 2: how creative the arrangements are and how you're just doing

1020
00:50:42,996 --> 00:50:44,916
Speaker 2: all this stuff, he was like, you're a genius. This

1021
00:50:44,996 --> 00:50:47,356
Speaker 2: is insane, like that you just did that and you

1022
00:50:47,396 --> 00:50:50,436
Speaker 2: don't even know how to play the guitar. And so

1023
00:50:50,476 --> 00:50:52,436
Speaker 2: That's kind of how I feel about it. It's really like,

1024
00:50:53,036 --> 00:50:56,516
Speaker 2: can't really play anything, But I just am lucky to

1025
00:50:56,636 --> 00:51:01,836
Speaker 2: have the ability to comprehend why I love what I

1026
00:51:01,876 --> 00:51:04,556
Speaker 2: love about music. And then even though I can't tell

1027
00:51:04,556 --> 00:51:06,836
Speaker 2: you the numbers of the root, Nope, so their progression

1028
00:51:06,956 --> 00:51:09,756
Speaker 2: or none of these other really important vitals that you

1029
00:51:09,916 --> 00:51:13,676
Speaker 2: need to casef a musician. But I know how it's

1030
00:51:13,676 --> 00:51:15,636
Speaker 2: supposed to sound, and I'm creative.

1031
00:51:15,196 --> 00:51:16,076
Speaker 1: Well, I don't even know if it's how it was

1032
00:51:16,076 --> 00:51:17,556
Speaker 1: supposed to Like you play something, I don't even know

1033
00:51:17,556 --> 00:51:19,276
Speaker 1: if that's how it's supposed to sound. It just sounds

1034
00:51:19,316 --> 00:51:21,516
Speaker 1: like there's stuffing on you on the record you just

1035
00:51:21,556 --> 00:51:24,876
Speaker 1: put out today, like Magic, where I'm like, what is that?

1036
00:51:25,356 --> 00:51:25,476
Speaker 4: Like?

1037
00:51:25,516 --> 00:51:28,516
Speaker 3: What is like? You know, it's like working Man was

1038
00:51:28,516 --> 00:51:29,116
Speaker 3: listening to it.

1039
00:51:29,356 --> 00:51:31,476
Speaker 2: We were picking songs for the show. I just didn't

1040
00:51:32,356 --> 00:51:33,956
Speaker 2: I can tell. They were like, what's going on?

1041
00:51:34,116 --> 00:51:37,116
Speaker 1: But it's crazy, Like but it's like it makes no sense,

1042
00:51:37,276 --> 00:51:40,516
Speaker 1: but it's absolutely beautiful and somehow it fits into the

1043
00:51:40,556 --> 00:51:43,196
Speaker 1: song and you're like, I don't know how he made

1044
00:51:43,436 --> 00:51:45,636
Speaker 1: Like I don't know how you made that song out

1045
00:51:45,676 --> 00:51:47,236
Speaker 1: of that riff or how you fit that riff into

1046
00:51:47,236 --> 00:51:50,436
Speaker 1: that song well out which wherever way it went, it's incredible.

1047
00:51:50,676 --> 00:51:53,396
Speaker 2: Thank you. It's observing. Man. I worked with John Mayer

1048
00:51:53,436 --> 00:51:56,476
Speaker 2: a bunch of times, so I was great. I was

1049
00:51:56,476 --> 00:51:58,756
Speaker 2: already already felt how I felt before I even met him,

1050
00:51:59,076 --> 00:52:01,156
Speaker 2: but then I was able to see him work too,

1051
00:52:01,276 --> 00:52:04,556
Speaker 2: so that showed me some things about how to what

1052
00:52:04,676 --> 00:52:06,916
Speaker 2: to do with the guitar. And then also this producer

1053
00:52:07,036 --> 00:52:11,316
Speaker 2: named Mike Elizondo and Mike Alzando I've worked with so

1054
00:52:11,356 --> 00:52:14,556
Speaker 2: many times over the years. But even though his biggest

1055
00:52:14,636 --> 00:52:16,716
Speaker 2: hit is in the Club probably, but he's like an

1056
00:52:16,716 --> 00:52:21,316
Speaker 2: incredible rock producer. Like he's so so like serious about

1057
00:52:22,036 --> 00:52:24,036
Speaker 2: all the genres he does. He can do anything. But

1058
00:52:24,076 --> 00:52:26,556
Speaker 2: like I worked with him in a bunch of sessions

1059
00:52:26,596 --> 00:52:28,516
Speaker 2: that were like rock leaning, you know, like it was

1060
00:52:28,516 --> 00:52:30,716
Speaker 2: pop rock or like just rock stuff. So I got

1061
00:52:30,716 --> 00:52:34,876
Speaker 2: to watch him making you know, rock music the way

1062
00:52:34,916 --> 00:52:37,476
Speaker 2: he imagines it, and it was just certain things I

1063
00:52:37,596 --> 00:52:39,836
Speaker 2: learned from watching both of those guys that I was like, Okay,

1064
00:52:39,836 --> 00:52:42,716
Speaker 2: so I don't need to really be good, I just

1065
00:52:42,756 --> 00:52:45,956
Speaker 2: need to know how to do it, and you know,

1066
00:52:46,076 --> 00:52:48,476
Speaker 2: like do what I'm trying to do with with everything

1067
00:52:48,476 --> 00:52:50,836
Speaker 2: I've learned in singing and writing and production because I've

1068
00:52:50,836 --> 00:52:53,156
Speaker 2: really been producing longer than both of those other things.

1069
00:52:53,236 --> 00:52:56,996
Speaker 2: Like people don't know that, but I know how to

1070
00:52:57,076 --> 00:53:00,716
Speaker 2: just get it to feel the way I wanted to feel.

1071
00:53:01,196 --> 00:53:03,636
Speaker 2: And then once I get this feeling, then now I'm like, Okay,

1072
00:53:03,716 --> 00:53:05,356
Speaker 2: now back to what I was saying earlier. Now this

1073
00:53:05,436 --> 00:53:07,316
Speaker 2: song is abuse, this is creating the feeling.

1074
00:53:08,076 --> 00:53:09,716
Speaker 1: And that's why I was saying that, like, yeah, I know,

1075
00:53:09,796 --> 00:53:12,636
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of people have copied your style,

1076
00:53:13,436 --> 00:53:16,516
Speaker 1: but it's something that hits very different when you're doing

1077
00:53:16,516 --> 00:53:18,476
Speaker 1: it or when it's you're thinking there's an emotion in it.

1078
00:53:18,516 --> 00:53:21,676
Speaker 1: That's just that doesn't translate to someone who's trying to

1079
00:53:21,756 --> 00:53:23,876
Speaker 1: just do a song that sounded like one of yours

1080
00:53:24,156 --> 00:53:26,716
Speaker 1: is a really like a it's like something that was

1081
00:53:26,756 --> 00:53:29,036
Speaker 1: captured in the room. It's like documenting something in the room.

1082
00:53:29,076 --> 00:53:31,756
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's necessarily. There's a few.

1083
00:53:31,596 --> 00:53:34,596
Speaker 2: Things that the people that study me, even though I'm

1084
00:53:34,796 --> 00:53:36,116
Speaker 2: I'll tell you, you know what I mean. It's not

1085
00:53:36,116 --> 00:53:38,796
Speaker 2: a secret, but it's just a few things that one

1086
00:53:38,836 --> 00:53:42,916
Speaker 2: thing is it's my style. While complex, there's some entry

1087
00:53:42,956 --> 00:53:44,836
Speaker 2: points that are just not hard. You know what I

1088
00:53:44,836 --> 00:53:49,236
Speaker 2: mean because like that it's supposed to be something that

1089
00:53:49,276 --> 00:53:52,436
Speaker 2: people can can enjoy. It's not supposed to be like

1090
00:53:52,796 --> 00:53:55,156
Speaker 2: you know, just like music for the sake of for

1091
00:53:55,476 --> 00:53:59,476
Speaker 2: other musicians, like for people been Also there's just things

1092
00:53:59,476 --> 00:54:01,676
Speaker 2: that they everybody hasn't picked up on yet, you know,

1093
00:54:01,796 --> 00:54:05,596
Speaker 2: Like there's dynamic stuff, which I got this from. I

1094
00:54:05,636 --> 00:54:07,756
Speaker 2: heard prince An shot it. Shot is a huge influence.

1095
00:54:07,756 --> 00:54:10,836
Speaker 2: Thiss is shot it tattooed on my hand. Yeah, shade

1096
00:54:10,996 --> 00:54:16,556
Speaker 2: as Mary, It's amazing, So that's another huge influence. But

1097
00:54:16,676 --> 00:54:18,956
Speaker 2: like Shota in print and like kind of singing a

1098
00:54:19,756 --> 00:54:21,396
Speaker 2: and also a lot of singers can't even do this

1099
00:54:21,556 --> 00:54:24,556
Speaker 2: to emulate it, but like singing a low octave and

1100
00:54:24,596 --> 00:54:27,036
Speaker 2: a high octave that creates a certain kind of feeling

1101
00:54:27,116 --> 00:54:29,076
Speaker 2: that I noticed people haven't picked up on that yet

1102
00:54:29,836 --> 00:54:33,476
Speaker 2: thinking of the singer as a character, you know. Like

1103
00:54:34,716 --> 00:54:37,236
Speaker 2: I noticed this on the song Village Ghetto Land by

1104
00:54:37,316 --> 00:54:41,716
Speaker 2: Stevie Wondering, which we all now know he loves classical

1105
00:54:41,796 --> 00:54:43,516
Speaker 2: music and that's why he was doing all these different

1106
00:54:44,436 --> 00:54:48,396
Speaker 2: classical leaning things. But when I heard that song, he's

1107
00:54:48,436 --> 00:54:51,516
Speaker 2: singing with like a slight British accent on the song

1108
00:54:52,156 --> 00:54:54,556
Speaker 2: and So what that taught me was that, you know,

1109
00:54:54,596 --> 00:54:57,276
Speaker 2: because that why I instantly knew why he did it.

1110
00:54:57,316 --> 00:55:01,316
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's classical music. It's already it's interesting because

1111
00:55:01,356 --> 00:55:05,516
Speaker 2: you're talking about the life, the ghetto life experience with

1112
00:55:05,596 --> 00:55:08,036
Speaker 2: the backdrop of classical So that's a lesson right there,

1113
00:55:08,076 --> 00:55:14,316
Speaker 2: because that's interesting. So that's a lesson that everybody needs

1114
00:55:14,316 --> 00:55:17,996
Speaker 2: to understand. And then the other thing is that he

1115
00:55:18,116 --> 00:55:20,876
Speaker 2: put himself into a character. He changed how he's pronouncing

1116
00:55:20,876 --> 00:55:24,356
Speaker 2: the words, his robrato, all these other things. So I'm like,

1117
00:55:25,156 --> 00:55:27,476
Speaker 2: you can do that on every song. Every song, Every

1118
00:55:27,556 --> 00:55:32,476
Speaker 2: every song has a different intent, and so like yeah, yeah,

1119
00:55:32,476 --> 00:55:36,556
Speaker 2: so like you know, I literally change how I sing,

1120
00:55:36,996 --> 00:55:41,436
Speaker 2: how I pronounce words, how if I'm singing louder, I change,

1121
00:55:41,836 --> 00:55:45,556
Speaker 2: like in the arrangement. Different harmonies might have different characters,

1122
00:55:46,196 --> 00:55:50,036
Speaker 2: but for sure, when I'm doing the performance, I'm acting,

1123
00:55:50,236 --> 00:55:53,316
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like you're you're acting. I

1124
00:55:53,356 --> 00:55:55,356
Speaker 2: think of the whole thing in terms of movies, the

1125
00:55:55,396 --> 00:55:59,076
Speaker 2: whole and everything about my music is is I'm thinking

1126
00:55:59,076 --> 00:56:06,396
Speaker 2: about cinematic dynamics, special effects, building it up, conflict. I

1127
00:56:06,436 --> 00:56:08,916
Speaker 2: always used to Hangover as an example of what I'm

1128
00:56:08,916 --> 00:56:11,876
Speaker 2: thinking when I'm writing, like in The Hangover, what a

1129
00:56:11,876 --> 00:56:13,356
Speaker 2: lot of people do in their writing, like if we're

1130
00:56:13,356 --> 00:56:15,356
Speaker 2: thinking about that scene and the Hangover the next day

1131
00:56:15,876 --> 00:56:18,396
Speaker 2: is they're like they'll have a song called smoking chair

1132
00:56:18,436 --> 00:56:20,996
Speaker 2: with a chicken on it, right, and it'll be like,

1133
00:56:21,036 --> 00:56:25,436
Speaker 2: there's a chair with smoking a chicken and right. And

1134
00:56:25,596 --> 00:56:29,796
Speaker 2: what the Hangover is doing is when everybody wakes up,

1135
00:56:29,836 --> 00:56:31,996
Speaker 2: the camera pants around the room and you just see

1136
00:56:32,036 --> 00:56:35,276
Speaker 2: the aftermath of what happened. And then for the rest

1137
00:56:35,276 --> 00:56:37,316
Speaker 2: of the movie you're finding everybody's trying to figure out

1138
00:56:37,316 --> 00:56:41,076
Speaker 2: what happened. And so in a song, while you can't,

1139
00:56:41,116 --> 00:56:43,836
Speaker 2: that's a type of song. There's instruction songs like back

1140
00:56:43,876 --> 00:56:45,756
Speaker 2: that ass up pretty clear.

1141
00:56:45,556 --> 00:56:46,196
Speaker 1: What you need to do.

1142
00:56:46,836 --> 00:56:49,596
Speaker 2: But then when you're making a cinemat when you're creating

1143
00:56:49,596 --> 00:56:53,676
Speaker 2: a scene, it's better to describe the scene to get

1144
00:56:53,676 --> 00:56:57,476
Speaker 2: the point across. So like, as far as the performance

1145
00:56:57,556 --> 00:56:59,676
Speaker 2: is concerned, that's part of it. That's like part of

1146
00:56:59,676 --> 00:57:02,476
Speaker 2: the scene is I'm describing the scene to you because

1147
00:57:02,516 --> 00:57:05,076
Speaker 2: you can't see it most you know, unless there's a video.

1148
00:57:05,836 --> 00:57:08,396
Speaker 2: And then I'm acting it out in as particular character,

1149
00:57:08,476 --> 00:57:11,876
Speaker 2: so you feel emotion. It's supposed to invoke.

1150
00:57:12,636 --> 00:57:15,676
Speaker 1: Wow, it's incredible, And that's a great point about village Ghettoland.

1151
00:57:15,676 --> 00:57:18,556
Speaker 1: I never the song would be a lot less interesting

1152
00:57:18,596 --> 00:57:19,756
Speaker 1: to be. I mean, it'll be a good song, but

1153
00:57:19,876 --> 00:57:22,036
Speaker 1: to be way less interesting if you didn't perform it

1154
00:57:22,076 --> 00:57:24,596
Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, it's an incredible lesson to take from that.

1155
00:57:25,276 --> 00:57:29,796
Speaker 2: It's something that the listener doesn't need to know, you

1156
00:57:29,836 --> 00:57:32,636
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's it's something that is for

1157
00:57:33,196 --> 00:57:35,316
Speaker 2: It's a detail that's for the person that wants to

1158
00:57:35,356 --> 00:57:38,356
Speaker 2: learn how to communicate at the highest level with their music.

1159
00:57:39,196 --> 00:57:42,116
Speaker 2: And so I used that on almost every single song.

1160
00:57:42,156 --> 00:57:45,036
Speaker 2: There's a song on this album it's Slay.

1161
00:57:45,076 --> 00:57:46,676
Speaker 1: On a Slay song.

1162
00:57:46,796 --> 00:57:50,116
Speaker 2: On the second verse of that song, and I actually

1163
00:57:50,116 --> 00:57:51,836
Speaker 2: I wrote the first half of that song in a

1164
00:57:51,876 --> 00:57:55,116
Speaker 2: songwriting class at my school. What Yeah, some of my

1165
00:57:55,236 --> 00:57:56,916
Speaker 2: students watching me write the first half of it.

1166
00:57:56,996 --> 00:57:59,116
Speaker 3: I was trying to teach them, Yeah, while I.

1167
00:57:59,076 --> 00:58:00,956
Speaker 2: Wrote that song, and then the second verse, since I'm

1168
00:58:00,996 --> 00:58:03,636
Speaker 2: already like in education mode when I'm thinking about the song,

1169
00:58:04,836 --> 00:58:07,396
Speaker 2: I literally sang the first and second line in two

1170
00:58:07,436 --> 00:58:11,236
Speaker 2: different characters. First line, how I'm singing it is different,

1171
00:58:11,556 --> 00:58:14,476
Speaker 2: how I'm pronouncing the words is different. You know, It's like,

1172
00:58:15,036 --> 00:58:17,876
Speaker 2: you know, a lot more not articulate, but like it's

1173
00:58:17,956 --> 00:58:21,556
Speaker 2: it's more sophisticated. The first character and then the second one,

1174
00:58:21,596 --> 00:58:24,756
Speaker 2: I literally have like a Southern not as real Southern accent,

1175
00:58:24,796 --> 00:58:27,796
Speaker 2: but it's like, you know, a lot more draw yeah,

1176
00:58:27,916 --> 00:58:30,276
Speaker 2: like just a different person. But you know.

1177
00:58:30,396 --> 00:58:32,916
Speaker 1: It's the second line, on the second line of the

1178
00:58:32,956 --> 00:58:35,596
Speaker 1: second I'm listen for that again. I love that song.

1179
00:58:35,636 --> 00:58:36,756
Speaker 1: I didn't even pick up on that.

1180
00:58:37,676 --> 00:58:38,676
Speaker 2: I can play it right now.

1181
00:58:38,876 --> 00:58:56,556
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so subtle but different guys.

1182
00:58:56,996 --> 00:59:00,916
Speaker 2: Wow, same voice, but the first one, I'm articulating the words.

1183
00:59:00,916 --> 00:59:05,916
Speaker 2: I'm singing softly. It's you know, it's a complicated yeah, right,

1184
00:59:06,316 --> 00:59:08,236
Speaker 2: And in the second line, I'm just a head back

1185
00:59:08,276 --> 00:59:08,716
Speaker 2: to together.

1186
00:59:10,196 --> 00:59:12,076
Speaker 1: Wow. Man, that's a great lesson.

1187
00:59:12,476 --> 00:59:15,196
Speaker 2: Thanks. The same thing I talked about in the beginning,

1188
00:59:15,236 --> 00:59:17,236
Speaker 2: about like when I first started and I was really

1189
00:59:17,236 --> 00:59:21,116
Speaker 2: focused on creating my own style. I'm still doing that.

1190
00:59:21,276 --> 00:59:25,996
Speaker 2: I'm still you know, like changing every song is a

1191
00:59:25,996 --> 00:59:29,196
Speaker 2: new opportunity for me to see what can I do,

1192
00:59:29,316 --> 00:59:31,756
Speaker 2: What did I do before that I liked, what did

1193
00:59:31,796 --> 00:59:34,276
Speaker 2: I try that didn't work? And then what can I

1194
00:59:34,316 --> 00:59:37,796
Speaker 2: add in now that I haven't done before? So I'm

1195
00:59:37,836 --> 00:59:39,236
Speaker 2: still trying to figure it out.

1196
00:59:39,636 --> 00:59:43,556
Speaker 1: Man. Well, thanks for kicking it, man, appreciate it. The

1197
00:59:43,676 --> 00:59:44,556
Speaker 1: beautiful record.

1198
00:59:44,996 --> 00:59:45,796
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

1199
00:59:45,796 --> 00:59:49,516
Speaker 1: I'm glad it's like compiled finally into one like listenable,

1200
00:59:49,716 --> 00:59:50,796
Speaker 1: digestible thing.

1201
00:59:51,476 --> 00:59:53,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you don't have to switch when you're running

1202
00:59:53,236 --> 00:59:54,996
Speaker 2: or whatever. That's what I hear all the time. It

1203
00:59:55,036 --> 00:59:57,236
Speaker 2: was like, I'm tired of I'm on a treadmill. I'm

1204
00:59:57,236 --> 01:00:00,516
Speaker 2: going between sounds. I can't relate to that. I'm not

1205
01:00:00,556 --> 01:00:03,236
Speaker 2: on treadmill, but I got you, you know what I'm saying.

1206
01:00:06,396 --> 01:00:09,116
Speaker 1: Thanks to James fontler Way for chatting about his songwriting career,

1207
01:00:09,156 --> 01:00:12,276
Speaker 1: your and his debut album, The Warmest Winter Ever. You

1208
01:00:12,316 --> 01:00:14,756
Speaker 1: can hear it along with our other favorite James Fauntleroy

1209
01:00:14,796 --> 01:00:19,036
Speaker 1: Penk songs on a playlist at broken record podcast dot com.

1210
01:00:19,436 --> 01:00:22,436
Speaker 1: Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash

1211
01:00:22,436 --> 01:00:24,876
Speaker 1: broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our

1212
01:00:24,916 --> 01:00:28,916
Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.

1213
01:00:29,476 --> 01:00:32,396
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with

1214
01:00:32,516 --> 01:00:35,956
Speaker 1: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer

1215
01:00:36,156 --> 01:00:40,516
Speaker 1: is Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

1216
01:00:40,916 --> 01:00:43,716
Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin consider

1217
01:00:43,756 --> 01:00:48,116
Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1218
01:00:48,196 --> 01:00:50,916
Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four

1219
01:00:51,116 --> 01:00:54,356
Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple

1220
01:00:54,396 --> 01:00:58,396
Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember

1221
01:00:58,436 --> 01:01:00,996
Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.

1222
01:01:01,276 --> 01:01:03,996
Speaker 1: Our theme Music's back, any beats. I'm justin Richmond.