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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology

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Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show, we're talking

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Speaker 1: animals that are unusually musical. Music isn't just something that

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Speaker 1: nearly every human on the planet loves, but something that

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Speaker 1: can be found from up in the skies to deep

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Speaker 1: under the ocean. And we have a special guest from

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Speaker 1: NASA who uses music to educate and inspire discover this

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Speaker 1: more as we answer the angel question, do all birds

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Speaker 1: like Taylor Swift or just the Swift's Joel Monique, our

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Speaker 1: lovely producer, is back with us again on a hot mic,

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Speaker 1: and joining me today is NASA engineer, creator, educator, and

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Speaker 1: musician Deja Williams. Welcome, Deja, Hi are you? I am

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Speaker 1: really good? I'm so excit I had to talk about

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Speaker 1: music with you. I It's always fascinated me how it's

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Speaker 1: its own language where you just like listen to a

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Speaker 1: piece of music and you feel this raw emotion and

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Speaker 1: it feels like we're sort of connected to the natural

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Speaker 1: world in a way. And so I'm I'm just so

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Speaker 1: excited about this topic and I'm so excited to have you.

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Speaker 1: I've never I don't think i've ever spoken to anyone

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Speaker 1: from NASA before. Yeah, I'm excited to do this too.

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Speaker 1: I I never. I've always had an appreciation for just

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Speaker 1: natural songs. I love when I see people making instrumentals

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Speaker 1: or beats to like just things that they have at

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Speaker 1: their house, whether it's a pen or like or the

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Speaker 1: wind or the river sounds. So I'm super excited to

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Speaker 1: look at music in a different perspective today. Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: And we will have an interview with you in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the episode where we will talk about your

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Speaker 1: own musical talent. You create songs to help get people

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Speaker 1: interested in STEM in math and engineering, which is really exciting.

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Speaker 1: It's a wonderful way to learn through music. I remember.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is kind of funny, but I remember

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Speaker 1: I could only learn the U. S States through that

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Speaker 1: Animaniac song that Oklahoma said it. I don't remember it now,

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Speaker 1: but as a kid, it helped me. Helped me immensely

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Speaker 1: pass that test. Yes, I know, I'm trying to think

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Speaker 1: of it so bad, I can't think of how it goes,

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Speaker 1: But yes, that that was the song of our first

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Speaker 1: grade year. That was our thing, but it helps unlock

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Speaker 1: a part of your brain. I think it's like, in fact,

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Speaker 1: like there's this whole thing where people who have suffered

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Speaker 1: some kind of brain trauma, either through a stroke or

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Speaker 1: brain injury, even if they can't talk, sometimes they can

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Speaker 1: still see because it's a different part of the brain.

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Speaker 1: So if the part of the brain that allows them

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Speaker 1: to sing or play music is still functioning, then they

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Speaker 1: can sing and play music but they can't like, and

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Speaker 1: they can maybe communicate through using their singing voice instead

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Speaker 1: of their talking voice, which is I think really fascinating. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's it's it's such a mysterious thing. And then

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about later in the episode. Some of these

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Speaker 1: mysteries of music, especially when it comes to music and nature,

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Speaker 1: I have yet to be discovered, but they are really

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Speaker 1: interesting and really exciting. We can I ask before we

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Speaker 1: move on, how'd you get into like music? Oh? My god, great,

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Speaker 1: great question. So I got into music, but my my

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Speaker 1: family played a huge influence. Every year, we have this thing.

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Speaker 1: It's not necessarily a family reunion. We call it a

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Speaker 1: pig party, but everybody goes down to Atlanta and we

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Speaker 1: have a talent show where everybody in the family has

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Speaker 1: to participate, especially the kids. So I would have my

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Speaker 1: bigger cousins right the wraps and and things of that.

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Speaker 1: So or I'm from St. Louis, Missouri, so Nellie was

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Speaker 1: huge at the time, so we would always like wrap

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Speaker 1: Nellie song. So that that's what got me like in

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Speaker 1: tune with music, trying to be prepared for the family

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Speaker 1: talent show. How'd you do? I did a pretty good.

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Speaker 1: My cousins always beat me out, But look, I'm the

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Speaker 1: one doing the music now, you know. I gotta make

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Speaker 1: sure that they don't hear this. Oh my god, you're

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Speaker 1: calling them out. You speaking of learning music from a

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Speaker 1: young age. I do want to talk first about birds,

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Speaker 1: which I think are the most iconic animal musicians. It's

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Speaker 1: the iconic animal who makes music in a way where

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Speaker 1: we feel that by just hearing them seeing we can

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Speaker 1: sort of understand them in a way that is otherwise

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Speaker 1: hard to understand. Joel, I know that your relationships with

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Speaker 1: birds is a little bit iffy. It even bird calls,

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Speaker 1: which we all know are actually dinosaur screams. Are they

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Speaker 1: very some are very nice and you're like, Wow, what

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Speaker 1: a wonderful way to like wake up in the morning,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes a giant raven is sitting in the palm

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Speaker 1: tree outside of your house staring at you singing, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, I know you hold grudges. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I haven't done anything specifically to you. But maybe the

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Speaker 1: birds know that I'm afraid of them, and they're stalking

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Speaker 1: my space. I don't know. I want to love the

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Speaker 1: bird music because I know what's important to them. I

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Speaker 1: know it's like what keeps them alive, how communicate and

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Speaker 1: find a partner and stuff. It's very romantic. I'd still

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Speaker 1: horrified with dinosaur screeches that accompany every sunrise. That's very metal, hilarious.

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Speaker 1: The cousin who actually puts on the pig party, he

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Speaker 1: actually is scared of birds himself, and he calls it.

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Speaker 1: He says that him and birds just have a misunderstanding.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't doesn't like to say that he's scared of that.

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Speaker 1: He just said, yeah, we don't have a little misunderstanding.

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Speaker 1: Nothing too nothing too crazy, but they can hear things.

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Speaker 1: I'm not the kind of person who advocates like during

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Speaker 1: rocks at birds or like running out they're scared. None

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Speaker 1: of that, None of that, None of that, you know.

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Speaker 1: I would just like them to stay over there and

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Speaker 1: as we over here and we're good, Like, can you

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Speaker 1: have a you have a healthy respect for the dinosaurs

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Speaker 1: of today that we know I do, I am aware

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Speaker 1: of their power. Well, hopefully I will be able to

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Speaker 1: convince you to enjoy bird music because actually, so there

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Speaker 1: are kind of different types of bird vocalizations. It's not

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Speaker 1: all birds songs. So a lot of the stuff you

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Speaker 1: hear from, like say a crow, or those like bird

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Speaker 1: calls that you hear, it's technically not bird's song, although

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Speaker 1: there's with everything in evolutionary biology, like the borders are

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Speaker 1: kind of fuzzy. So bird calls are simple vocalizations that

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Speaker 1: are often less pleasing to our human ears, and bird songs,

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Speaker 1: which are longer, they're more elaborate, they're more complex, and

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Speaker 1: we typically find them a lot more pleasing to our ears.

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Speaker 1: So generally speaking, bird calls like uh, that raven staring

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Speaker 1: at you, Joel going that is sort of a short

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Speaker 1: and sweet kind of communication. It's often like an alarm,

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Speaker 1: like hey, watch out for that hawk, or like hey

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Speaker 1: I'm over here, where are you? Or hey stop that

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Speaker 1: or just you know, generally, these like little snippets of communication,

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Speaker 1: whereas bird songs are longer and more complex. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about the musician wrin, which is

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Speaker 1: a little rust colored bird with white spots on its

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Speaker 1: neck and dark bands on its wings. It's found in

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Speaker 1: the Amazon rainforest, and there is a musician wrin call,

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Speaker 1: and I want you to listen to the difference between

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Speaker 1: its call and its song because it's quite quite remarkable.

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Speaker 1: So here's the call and here's the song. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah. It's like the difference between like a whistle

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Speaker 1: as you're walking down the street and like uh honk

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Speaker 1: slash whistle of trying to call someone's attention from across

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Speaker 1: the field. It's very different. That's crazy. So they and

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Speaker 1: all the is it okay? Are birds like um snowflakes

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Speaker 1: through each of their songs are deferent? Are they composing?

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Speaker 1: Are they building off of one another? Is there a

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Speaker 1: bock level bird who's like that bird was a master songwriter?

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Speaker 1: Those are extremely good questions, and those are questions that

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Speaker 1: are often the focus of zoom musicology studies and ornithology studies.

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Speaker 1: So I would say that the answer is going to

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Speaker 1: depend on the species of birds. Usually what happens with

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Speaker 1: bird's song is that you have your little baby birds

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Speaker 1: and they have this instinctive understanding of which bird songs

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Speaker 1: they're supposed to listen to to pick up on somehow,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting because bird songs do evolve over time,

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Speaker 1: so that mechanism of them being like, ah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: one of the that's one of my family, I know,

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Speaker 1: I gotta listen to that, uh, is kind of mysterious.

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Speaker 1: But they do learn specific songs that like all of

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Speaker 1: their species of birds are going to be doing. However,

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Speaker 1: they also can in some species and it differs like

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Speaker 1: some species have these big repertoires of songs, some species

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Speaker 1: just have a couple's songs and generally can have this

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Speaker 1: big repertoire of like variations on these bird songs. And

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Speaker 1: you could definitely have a bird talk who kind of

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Speaker 1: like innovates a little bit and then passes that song

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Speaker 1: on to other birds if it catches on. So there

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Speaker 1: is bird innovation in songs, and it is really interesting

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Speaker 1: to see that happen. It's partially innate, there's a partially

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Speaker 1: instinctive ability to sing, and then it's partially learned, which

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Speaker 1: is actually you know, there's a lot of debate on

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Speaker 1: how humans pick up on language, but it's there's sort

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Speaker 1: of this idea that you know, we have these structures

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Speaker 1: in our brain that are really good at creating language,

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Speaker 1: but then we have to learn it, so we learn

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Speaker 1: it from each other. So it's a potentially similar things

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Speaker 1: with birds, and we can learn a lot about human

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Speaker 1: communication through bird communication. Who we study like us. I

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Speaker 1: want to Jackson Family five birds. I want to see

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Speaker 1: like the little Michael, you know, do you know, finally

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Speaker 1: learning to like hit those dance steps at the right time.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is the most interested I've ever

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Speaker 1: been in birds because it's the reality TV show waiting

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Speaker 1: to have in. I want to see how the birds

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Speaker 1: are evolving, what they're learning from their parents week to week.

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Speaker 1: Are they getting stronger? Are they frustrated that the judge

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Speaker 1: don't like what they're doing? This could be very interesting.

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Speaker 1: They actually practice their song and it is called subsong.

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Speaker 1: When they practice their song, it's kind of these little

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Speaker 1: like very quiet, kind of uncertain little practicing, like almost

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Speaker 1: like they're singing the songs under their breath, like okay,

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Speaker 1: boo boo boop. And then so they're kind of learning

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Speaker 1: this song and then as they get older and start

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Speaker 1: to get more confident in their song, it starts to

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Speaker 1: get stronger and stronger, and they will finally reach this

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Speaker 1: age where they can actually sing and sing well. And

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Speaker 1: the reason that they sing is that they are actually

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Speaker 1: advertising that they're great birds. So what that's it? This

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Speaker 1: is unbelievable. Wow, I did I didn't know that they

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Speaker 1: they This is literally how humans are failing learn anything

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Speaker 1: the drums or you know whatever, Like, does that remind

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Speaker 1: you of getting ready to do the wraps in front

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Speaker 1: of your families where you like everything that she's saying.

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Speaker 1: She's like, oh, they have this innate ability to that.

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Speaker 1: We I mean, we have an innate ability to either

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Speaker 1: some people can stay on beat or they can't type

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Speaker 1: of do. So, yeah, I see a lot of similarities

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Speaker 1: in how I learned music or watching maybe a child

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Speaker 1: in my family learned music. So this is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And there's also similar to humans, there's this crystallization period

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Speaker 1: for learning bird song. So if you don't expose a

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Speaker 1: baby bird to birdsong when it's still immature, it actually

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Speaker 1: can't learn it an adulthood, which is similar to how humans.

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Speaker 1: They we seem to have this period of time that

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Speaker 1: where we can learn language, and if like say someone

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Speaker 1: who is basically these children who have been not exposed

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Speaker 1: to human society, it's very very rare that this happens.

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Speaker 1: It's usually a lost child and then they get lost

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Speaker 1: somewhere where they don't have contact with with other people,

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Speaker 1: and then they get found. They struggle very much. They

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Speaker 1: can kind of learn language a little bit, but they

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Speaker 1: really struggle because it seems to be something that we

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Speaker 1: basically have this crystallization period where like kids are great

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Speaker 1: at learning language. It's astounding how how smart and could

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Speaker 1: they are picking up on language just by absorbing it.

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Speaker 1: And it's the same similar thing with baby birds. They

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Speaker 1: pick up this bird song and they learn it. And

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Speaker 1: the whole reason they sing to each other is they're

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Speaker 1: essentially advertising either to mates or two rivals that they

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Speaker 1: are very talented, which means there which is sort of

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Speaker 1: an advertisement of their overall health. So research has shown

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Speaker 1: that high quality songs help indicate health. So there's a

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Speaker 1: connection between the tempo of the songs and whether they

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Speaker 1: have disease or parasites or their overall physical welfare. So

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Speaker 1: like if they kind of it's basically if you have

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Speaker 1: rhythm as a bird, it means you're healthy. And if

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Speaker 1: you're kind of like maybe off key, a little bit

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Speaker 1: off tempo, it means you might be dealing with some

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Speaker 1: some itchy skin mites or something. There a song that

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Speaker 1: we can sing as humans if find out if if

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Speaker 1: you're sick or not, that would be really cool. Little

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Speaker 1: we could just like, you know, whether you need to

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Speaker 1: go to the doctor or not. Yeah, Unfortunately, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be show tunes. Speak for yourself, missy, I will

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Speaker 1: show tunes my way through an illness. Let's do this.

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Speaker 1: I'm ready for the talent competition as well. I would

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Speaker 1: like to wear an idle version of the songs. I

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Speaker 1: think that they would be beautiful. And I do think

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Speaker 1: that if humans could sing their despair, it would be

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Speaker 1: more like a Glee episode with like it would be

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Speaker 1: a lot of mashup songs. It would be people trying

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Speaker 1: to express their feelings through multiple songs and sing terribly. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, speaking of Glee actually, So, like I said,

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Speaker 1: there's two main reasons that birds song happens, and one

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Speaker 1: is mating, advertising yourself to mate, like hey, like I

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Speaker 1: have the mental acuity and the physical fitness to sing

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Speaker 1: this amazing song, you should mate with me. But the

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Speaker 1: other reason is to advertise to rivals that you're awesome

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Speaker 1: and amazing and you you can go at any time, bro.

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Speaker 1: But we don't have to resort to violence, because we

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Speaker 1: can just settle this by seeing which one of us

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Speaker 1: is going to be better at defending our territory through

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Speaker 1: our songs. And they have these like they have these

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Speaker 1: song fights, so like there will be a bird singing

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Speaker 1: in it's territory and usually so typically it's the male

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Speaker 1: birds that sing. So the birds have rat battles. They did,

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Speaker 1: haven't That's crazy? Oh my god, I gotta tell everybody

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Speaker 1: that birds have rap battles. When they do, they do

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Speaker 1: and don't like compete with each other. So that so

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Speaker 1: one of the birds will sing a song in its repertoire,

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Speaker 1: and then another bird will sing either that same song

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Speaker 1: or maybe a slightly different version of that song to

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Speaker 1: say like, hey, anything you can do like I can

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Speaker 1: do better, essentially, and and they'll go back and forth

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Speaker 1: to both advertise themselves in front of me. It's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you you think this guy is good? Like look at me, um,

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Speaker 1: but also like to work out territory disputes without having

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Speaker 1: to resort to actual fighting because they're like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: like listen, you don't want to mess with me. I

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Speaker 1: have this extremely sick beat that you do not want

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Speaker 1: to mess with. Oh my guy, I am mind blown

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Speaker 1: right now. I just I gotta take that to the classroom,

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Speaker 1: teach about about birds and and have them. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a that's really cool. The battles ever, give bloody? Does

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Speaker 1: it ever go beyond just singing? And how is a

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Speaker 1: winner determined? A winner is determined by sort of the

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Speaker 1: bird's taste in music. So again, like if it has

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Speaker 1: the right tempo, if they have a big sometimes in

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Speaker 1: some species, if you have a bigger repertoire to draw from.

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Speaker 1: That means that you are chosen more by mates or

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Speaker 1: respected more by other birds, Like birds will like if

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Speaker 1: if a bird is advertising its territory and it's a

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Speaker 1: better singer by the metrics that these birds have chosen,

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Speaker 1: then rivals will not challenge that bird as much because

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Speaker 1: they're like, hey, you're probably kind of a badass and

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Speaker 1: I don't want to deal with you. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it is. I think it. It's not that they never

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Speaker 1: resort to sort of squabbles and violence. I think it

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Speaker 1: is a way to avoid that though, because if you

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Speaker 1: can advertise your physical fitness without having to resort to violence,

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Speaker 1: then it kind of works out for everyone because then

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Speaker 1: it's like, hey, we don't really a lot of animal

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Speaker 1: to do this too, by the way, like some animals

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Speaker 1: do it by like comparing their jaw size, Like they'll

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Speaker 1: open up their mouths and be like, oh, I have

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Speaker 1: a bigger job than you, so we don't have to

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Speaker 1: actually do this, And then it benefits them both because

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Speaker 1: like the the winner doesn't have to get any like

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Speaker 1: expend energy or get any injuries from it. In the loser,

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Speaker 1: you know, avoids probably what's going to be losing, Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: losing confrontation. Nobody wants that. So, you know, music, it's

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Speaker 1: a way to resolve bird disputes. I think that's great soul.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, And like I said, so it's bird's

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Speaker 1: song is generally something that male birds do, but female

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Speaker 1: birds sometimes sing. So like because males are often the

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Speaker 1: ones that are advertising themselves to mates or defending territory,

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Speaker 1: they'll often be uh in a lot of species, they're

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Speaker 1: the ones that produce bird song, but in areas where

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Speaker 1: birds actually have a lower risk of mortality, so like

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Speaker 1: in the Amazon where they have few were predators and

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Speaker 1: more resources, and also being having a lower rate of

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Speaker 1: mortality means that they can form these stronger pair bonds

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Speaker 1: with each other because it's like, you know, it's more

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Speaker 1: beneficial to be monogamous if your monogamous partner isn't going

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Speaker 1: to get eaten by a cat or something. So in

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Speaker 1: those areas, females actually also sing, which seems to indicate

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Speaker 1: that first of all, because that may strengthen their pair bond,

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Speaker 1: and also in other areas where they have these shorter,

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Speaker 1: unpredictable breeding opportunity windows, like in the deserts of Australia

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Speaker 1: and Africa, where weather conditions are really erratic, both males

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Speaker 1: and females sing because it just increases their chances that

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Speaker 1: they're going to find each other as quickly as possible

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Speaker 1: while the conditions are right to breed. So it's really

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Speaker 1: interesting how like these environmental factors really influence whether you're

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Speaker 1: going to have a boy band or you know, boy

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Speaker 1: and girl bands. So are the birds coursing together? Is

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Speaker 1: it multiple voices? It once? It can be so sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's a single bird singing a song of advertisement like hey,

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Speaker 1: come mate with me, or stay out of my stay

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Speaker 1: off my porch um or it is. They can be duets,

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Speaker 1: so a pair bond can sing a duet to strengthen

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Speaker 1: their relationship essentially, I mean, just like any sort of

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Speaker 1: good musical. It's like when your parents do the two

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Speaker 1: steps in the kitchen and their bonds, Like, I love

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Speaker 1: that romance. And then you can have like birds duetting

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Speaker 1: as a form of rivalry where it's like they're singing

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Speaker 1: a duet to kind of like see who's the better singers,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, they they It is really interesting and there's

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Speaker 1: I mean, it really depends on the species of birds

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Speaker 1: because there's a whole variety of behavior some kind of

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Speaker 1: like generalizing, but yeah, it's um, yeah, it's it's really

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Speaker 1: interesting and I love I love the whole thing of

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Speaker 1: like birds singing duets together. It's so sweet, so ro mantic,

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Speaker 1: and the way birds actually can produce music is really interesting,

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Speaker 1: just on the sort of physics side of it. So

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Speaker 1: birds don't have a larynx like humans do. They have

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Speaker 1: a synx, which is, you know, the bird version of

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Speaker 1: a larynx, so it's similar to how a larynx works,

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Speaker 1: where air's force past membranes that vibrate in a resonance

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Speaker 1: chamber that produces sound, kind of like the strings of

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Speaker 1: a violin. When those strings vibrate, they produce a sound,

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Speaker 1: and then you have the resonance chamber in the body

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Speaker 1: of the violin. But what's interesting about the syrinx is

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Speaker 1: that it allows them to create two notes at once

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Speaker 1: because they can control muscles on either side of the

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Speaker 1: serix independently, So like how a pianist can control both

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Speaker 1: hands and play different notes at once, like a bird

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Speaker 1: can play two notes at once. They're humans who can

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Speaker 1: sing two notes at the same time. Yeah, isn't that

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Speaker 1: the a throat singing? Yeah? Yeah, a throat singing is

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00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 1: incredible hollyphonic overtone singing, Yeah yeah, and it's with throat singing.

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00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: I think what's happening is basically what happens when you

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00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: are switching from one register to another with singing, where

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Speaker 1: it's like, now, I'm not like a vocal expert with

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Speaker 1: with human singing, but you can It's like switching from

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Speaker 1: a certain register of singing to like a falsetto ish register.

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Speaker 1: It might might not technically be falsetto. And I apologize

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Speaker 1: to all the all the vocal coaches out there that

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Speaker 1: are just like, no, but you're it's basically of these

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Speaker 1: two distinct registers of singing that that happen in different

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Speaker 1: parts of the larynx and different parts of the the

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Speaker 1: sort of like like glottal area. And then if you

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Speaker 1: basically like get sort of like between them or like

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00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 1: right at that bridge between them, if you can kind

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00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 1: of lean into that, you can get those two registers

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00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: kind of like going uh simultaneously, and that's how you

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00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: get that really interesting, incredible throat singing. There's a ton

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00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: ton of videos on YouTube if you guys want to

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00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 1: look it up and check it out. Sometimes you see

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00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: people like manually manipulating their throat trying to achieve that

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Speaker 1: like dual tone. Some people can just do it with

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00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 1: their like nose and like despite overing our mouth at

385
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,479
Speaker 1: a certain angle and like getting the air to hit

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00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: the cordy. Today it is the craziest thing you've ever heard. Though,

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00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm sure there are aliens in that person.

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00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: This is a Men in Black episode and they're just

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Speaker 1: lying to us. We've been mind I remember I tried

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00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: to do that when I first found out about it,

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Speaker 1: and I just saw singing is not necessarily my strong suit.

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Speaker 1: And I actually have an example of that. It's a

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Speaker 1: wood thrush. This is what every morning in Illinois sounds like.

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Speaker 1: I just want to live in the back country of

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Speaker 1: Illinois where there are many a tree and cornfield. This

396
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: is what you woke up to you every morning. It

397
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: is gonna be very strange nostalgia, but it's also it

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00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: is very beautiful. This is one of those you just

399
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: can't deny that. It's it's just lovely. I love the

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00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: I love the bird trills that it almost sounds digital,

401
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: like it's been auto tunes. You know what I mean,

402
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: because I think it is. It's one of those examples

403
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: of it. It's playing two notes at once, so it

404
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: sounds kind of synthetic and digital because you shouldn't be

405
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: able to do that. It's like going back and forth crazy.

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Speaker 1: So what part of Illinois are you from. Let's see,

407
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: so I was born in the Hazel Crest, which is

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Speaker 1: like half an hour outside of Chicago, but I was

409
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: raised in Ottawa, Illinois, which is like right next to

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00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: Starved Rock, the Big State Park. Okay, Okay, I've heard

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00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: I've heard of these places, but i'm because I've heard

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00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: this too, so I'm assuming is that, like, are these

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Speaker 1: birds some of these birds in the Midwest, like you know,

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00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 1: heavy in the Midwest. I don't know. Yeah, I think

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00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: it's it's found in all over eastern uh eastern United States,

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00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: and then probably into the Midwest a little bit, and

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00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: then I think it tapers off a little bit as

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00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: you get closer to the west coast. Okay, that makes sense, Okay, Yeah,

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00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: it definitely could have been the wood thrush or another

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00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: species of thrush who also do similar calls. I'm giving

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00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: this the Beyonce efforts. If you wanted or you would

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00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: have put a wing on her. That was good. Oh

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00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: my god. So one car and that I had as

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00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: I was doing this research is why does bird's song

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00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: sound so good to us? Like? Is it like human song?

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00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: Like what do we find so appealing? Because there's nothing

427
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: better than like, you know, you're out in nature and

428
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: you're hearing bird's song and it's so relaxing and it

429
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: sounds nice. Like there's all sorts of interesting animal vocalizations,

430
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: but sometimes they don't really sound nice. They just it's like, Okay,

431
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: that's interesting, not into it, but it's cool. There was

432
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: a zoom musicology study published in the Max Planck Institute

433
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: of Ornithology that found that musician rins are are a

434
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: little pow that we listened to at the beginning of

435
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: the episode. Uh, share a similar taste in music as humans.

436
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: So the intervals in their music, which is like the

437
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: difference in pitch between two notes, are the same as

438
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: intervals found in music in most human cultures. So I'm

439
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: not a musician, so this quote from the article doesn't

440
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: make much sense to me. So I'm hoping, but I'm

441
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: hoping for for musicians, this will this will mean something.

442
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: So the authors of the studies say, quote, it is

443
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: because musician rins preferentially produced successive perfect octaves fifths and

444
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: fourth that their songs sound musical to human listeners. So great, cool,

445
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: I love it. Some factory this morning. Take them. Oh

446
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: my gosh, that's interesting. Now, I wonder if we took

447
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: these birds to different concerts, like who they would ring because,

448
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: like we know, plants are classical creatures. They want to

449
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: listen to their box and their beech ovens like a

450
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: string and a trumpet, you know, but I wonder, like,

451
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: you know, if we played I don't know, some te

452
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: Swift for the birds suddenly, you know, sort of like

453
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: they pick up on birds and Amazon where foresting is heavy,

454
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: will sometimes make the sounds of the saws, the trucks

455
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: and mimic that. Yeah, that's the that's the liar bird.

456
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: Which there are birds that actually copy sounds, so they

457
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: have such a flexible ability to fill their repertoire with

458
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: different kind of sounds. They don't just do like sort

459
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: of a species specific song. They copy all sorts of

460
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: sounds they found. They can, like, like you said, Joel,

461
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: just mimic exactly like a chainsang. I would like to see,

462
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, some bird renditions of the Taylor Swift album.

463
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: I want to know what, how do they feel about it?

464
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: What they're you know, intonation of haters gonna hate, hate hate.

465
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: It's like, I think that would be brilliant. Um, you know,

466
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: if we got a boy band number of you know,

467
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: if we get twelve for like a K pop band, done,

468
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: what does that sound like? I feel like birds have

469
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: are holding back on us. As you know, I'm a

470
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: very conspiracist. I'm not one of the conspiracy people who

471
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: please birds don't exist. But I do believe birds aren't

472
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: plotting for their takeover. And I wonder, like, you know,

473
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: if they're just like these humans are so silly they

474
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: think their music okay, they don't know, they don't know

475
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: what's around the corner. I would like to hear it. Yeah, yeah,

476
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: I mean we have seen those birds in the videos,

477
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: like like cockatoo who like sort of seems to dance

478
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: to yeh, it seems to Bob's to the of them.

479
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: I was actually talking to a listener, Brian Greco, who

480
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: is an assistant professor at University of Wisconsin River Falls

481
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: in the Department of Animal and Food Science, and I

482
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: was asking him his opinion on like how animals respond

483
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: to music. He was saying that sort of differences in

484
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: tempo and the frequency of tones can have an effect

485
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: on the um activation of the parasympathetic nervous system. So

486
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: like sort of that's that's the same system that kind

487
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: of engages you in in excitement, fight or flight, or

488
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: to calm down, and so he said. Quote this as

489
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: well and illustrated by the five jillion dancing parrot videos

490
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: on YouTube. The vast majority of the selected songs are

491
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: high tempo, and many of the featured birds are displaying fight,

492
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: flight or reproductive communication cues. So uh, And then he says,

493
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: so music is exciting, be it scary or sexy. So

494
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: birds are either finding the music to be a turn

495
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: on and they're getting a little bit you know, these

496
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: are some some thirsty, horny birds, or they are finding

497
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: the music alarming and kind of feeling in an excitement.

498
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: It's possibly a fear excitement. It's hard to tell, like

499
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: the difference between fear arousal and excitement arousal. So it

500
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: has something to do with the tempo and frequency. And

501
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: I don't know how birds would react to h T. Swift.

502
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: If these birds are gonna be very mad, Max vibes sexy,

503
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: but it's kind of scary. They like a loud, fast

504
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: music telling you overlords they're coming for So I didn't

505
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: invite a nass An engineer on the show to talk

506
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: about music just because she's super smart and space is cool,

507
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: but because Desia is a musician herself. When we return,

508
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about how she uses music to

509
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: inspire and educate students about stems. Write your hands because

510
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: we're too busy schooling. It's simple, let me prove it.

511
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: We gotta keep improve it. Bro, we gotta get these

512
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: braids and agree were week for someone I much saw

513
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: you how to do this, how to cover units hands

514
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: because we're too busy schooling. It's equals in its own negatively,

515
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: that's a modest we of the web. Fine, as well

516
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: as sh'll not find a rude over to say rude

517
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: over to a food over to say rude over. What

518
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: you were just listening to is another one of Desia's songs.

519
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: So now let's go behind the music and get a

520
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: NASA engineers scoop on how songs can spread knowledge. So Deja,

521
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: I want to to talk to you a bit about

522
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: your experience both as an engineer at NASA and as

523
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: a musician. So first of all, for those of us

524
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: who maybe aren't engineers, I'm pointing to myself, can you

525
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: kind of describe like what you do at at NASA

526
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: as an engineer? As an engineer a NASA, I'm a

527
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: quality engineer. So myr. Mary starts off with me kind

528
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: of going through a bunch of paperwork on some discrepancies

529
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: that I may have found the day before. Discrepancies mayna

530
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: that there's something wrong with a part literally anything on

531
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: the space. We don't want that right exactly. So I

532
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: go through those discrepancies, send them to the actual engineers

533
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: that are you know, work in that particular system, and

534
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: it's their job to take what I say and UM,

535
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: fix it basically um. And the quickest way to say

536
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: that it's just to fix it right. So after I

537
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: do all that paperwork, I go to different labs. I

538
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: suit up, I put my mask on and put my

539
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: buddy suit on, got my booties on. I go in

540
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: the lab and I start to I inspect. I do

541
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: a lot of inspecting on whether we're putting together something

542
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: or we could we need to make sure that this

543
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: part weighs this much, or we need to make sure

544
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: that this mechanism can hold as much weight as it's

545
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: supposed to, it could take this much force, it could

546
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: exist in this temperature, or any type of anything like that.

547
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: We need to make sure that it's going to actually

548
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: do what it's supposed to do in space. So I'm

549
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: there to make sure that the proper steps are being

550
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: taken to make sure that we can rely on what

551
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: we're sending up there. That sounds incredibly important. I am

552
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: really glad that you are making sure that the things

553
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: that we send into space are you know, space worthy

554
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: and not gonna fall apart. And when we think about

555
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: things like hey, let's just build a spaceship, it kind

556
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: of hurts my brain to try to think about all

557
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: of the many, many, many steps and many many people

558
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: who have to be involved to do that. I can't

559
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: I don't even know where you start, Like just like

560
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: look staring at a blank sheet of paper and then like,

561
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: I don't know drawing a spaceship, Like, how do you

562
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: even start with that? But that's that's the thing. A

563
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: lot of us don't even know where it starts. Like

564
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: there's not there's not one single person that could give

565
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: you the rundown. But when it comes to actually doing it,

566
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: it takes a massive amount of skill sets and uh,

567
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: it's it's a we have to be a huge team.

568
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: And some people don't like to admit that, they think

569
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 1: that their part is probably more important than someone else's.

570
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 1: But man, these you can't think that sending a rover

571
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: to Mars can, right. Uh, that is so interesting, that's

572
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: incredible that you do that. When did you first realize

573
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: that you wanted to become an engineer. I started getting

574
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: interested in engineering while I was in high school. We

575
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: had these classes called Project Lead the Way, and they

576
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: allowed you to design different like buildings like uh and

577
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: things like that through a software called like auto cat.

578
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: It was. It was a it was a lower version

579
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: than what they used in the industry, but it was

580
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: still giving us an opportunity to design things on our

581
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: own and and see how things work. But I also

582
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: had this little internship at the St. Louis Science Center

583
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: called Youth Exploring Science, and they gave me a lot

584
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: of opportunities to study things like explore right, things like chemistry, robotics,

585
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: like um, just anything that you could think of. They

586
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: were allowing us to do projects on them, and then

587
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: they would take it a step further and put us

588
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: into summer programs where we were to actually teach it

589
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: to elementary school. So, teacher, can you talk about the

590
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 1: importance of exploring, about just being allowed to open space,

591
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: explore technology. It's I just think that's where genuine learning

592
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: comes from, is just having that curiosity to see how

593
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: something is working, how can I replicate that? How can

594
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: I build that right? And then or and then another

595
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: part of engineering is how can I make it better?

596
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: How can I innovate this thing? So just having that

597
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: genuine curiosity of Okay, how does my cell phone work?

598
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: Do I have one that I can take apart? Okay, well,

599
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: what's this thing? What's this thing? And then you just

600
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: start googling stuff and okay, I got my answers. Obviously,

601
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: it will take a little bit more formal training to

602
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 1: put bigger things together, but I do think that true

603
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: learning and just being inquisitive. You gotta teach kids to

604
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: just explore the world around you, like it looks for answers.

605
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: Are you can you can build whatever is in your hand.

606
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: You can build that Nintendo like. I think one of

607
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: the really cool things that you do is you use

608
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: music to help inspire kids to have that interest in exploring.

609
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 1: How do you use music to inspire and to educate,

610
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to engineering and too, math and

611
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: science these things that I think can be really intimidating

612
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: to kids. So the music for me is about breaking

613
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: down a barrier, more in particular a language barrier. I

614
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: feel like right now, education as a whole, not even

615
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: just math, is science are given in a very uh,

616
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: it's just just one track, and we use the same

617
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: words through every curriculum and it's not very diverse at all.

618
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: So if I always use this example, I remember I

619
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: had I don't know if it was a physics question

620
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: or something, but it has something to do with like

621
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: skiing or uh, snowboarding or how fast this kid was

622
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: going and I had. You know, the people in my classroom,

623
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: they have been to Denver or to any you know,

624
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: they have been skiing before, so they could imagine that,

625
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: oh I was going pretty fast as I was skiing,

626
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: So I could imagine you had that lived experience. So

627
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: when we break break down the language and we start

628
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: talking in a way that different particular groups of kids

629
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: that they can understand, it's going to be a more

630
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: enjoyable learning experience. So music for me, especially with black

631
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: and brown kids, well, well all kids love hip hop,

632
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: but you know that that I know that's the music

633
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 1: that touches my community the most. So let me try

634
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: to break it down into that language. Like in my

635
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: song like one inch and two points five for cine

636
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: meter is your future briter than the ring on my

637
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: pinky finger, Like like jewelry is such so huge in

638
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: the rap community, So let me put that, let me

639
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: make some of that into the science. So so they

640
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: thinking we're saying about diamond rains and whatnot when you

641
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: don't even know that you're memorizing that these conversions the

642
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 1: song right, because you're I mean, I think that's something

643
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: that is often overlooked in education. We assume you get

644
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: a textbook, you have a curriculum, and oh that works

645
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: for every every kid. And of course no, you know,

646
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: children are extremely influenced by their environment in which they

647
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: grow up. You can't like teach a kid in New

648
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: York like all right, so let's talk to you about

649
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: surfing and use that as a metaphor for like it's like, well,

650
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: pay surfs here, what are you talking about? So it's

651
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: just I think that's incredible. I'm going to play a

652
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: sample of one of your songs right now for our

653
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: listeners to here, first of all, because it's a really

654
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: wonderful song. I love it. It's so catchy, just to

655
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: of you a taste of like how you can make

656
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: something that you know, if you talk to tell a

657
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: kid like we're going to learn about how to convert

658
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: units and you can feel their solely their body. But

659
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: but when you do it like this, It's so fun.

660
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: I was listening to this and I'm someone who, like

661
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: I don't remember unit conversion home. Now I'm like, all right, yeah,

662
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: this makes sense. I want to relearn. Oh wow, that

663
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: is awesome. Yeah, so let me play that right now.

664
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: I met put your burning in the rain on my

665
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: piggy fingers. Well, people, full full. You gotta keep your

666
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: head in three yard just sad, he shouted. Teach you

667
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: you will start seventy sixty yards in the mouth six really, Brown,

668
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: would you talk a little bit about the creative process

669
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: for you, like when you are creating an educational song,

670
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: like how do you pick out a topic that you

671
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: think would be really useful for kids to have unit conversions.

672
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: I came up with an idea to do that one

673
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: because I was actually at work and we were trying

674
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: to do a test on some type of part and

675
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: we had to put X amount of pounds in it

676
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: on or onto a piece of hardware, but our our

677
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: instructions were in kilograms, so we needed to convert that.

678
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: And I literally was like, oh my god, I remember

679
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: having to do this when I was younger, and let

680
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: me just make a song about it. Yeah, that. That's

681
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: why I'm choosing topics that touch a wide range of

682
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: edges demographics right now, until I get the resources to

683
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: do Like, Okay, this is first grade, this is second grade,

684
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: this is third grade math. What does music mean to you?

685
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: And what does it mean to get to express your

686
00:41:54,360 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: interests in STEM and engineering through music out is a

687
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: really good question. Music is I don't know, it's everything

688
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: to me. I don't want to sound cliche, but when

689
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: I first when I first got out here to m

690
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: l A for my job, I was focused on the

691
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 1: job and I didn't get to express myself ado any music,

692
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: and it really took me like I just was sad

693
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: and I didn't and I didn't know why, Like I

694
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: just I couldn't figure out. It's just like, you just

695
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: got this really good job, You're moving to the West

696
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: coast from Missouri, like this is a great time. But

697
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: what I realized, the missing key ingredient to what makes

698
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: me happy is a music. So it's it's a safe

699
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: haven for me. It's a way to um, it just

700
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: feels something, you know, Um, Yeah, I can't I can't

701
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: do it without it. But because of that, that's how

702
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: I came with the idea it to use the two.

703
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, these these worlds don't too have to

704
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: be totally separate from me. I can mix them and

705
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: also give back and teach at the same time, you know,

706
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: and make and affect some change. So music, it's it's

707
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: really huge. That's amazing. Yeah, that's I love that so much.

708
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: It's I think music really taps into something so deep

709
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: inside of us. And to use that to reach out

710
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 1: to kids, to make something that, you know, to sort

711
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: of spark this scientific curiosity. And then I love that

712
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: music can educate, inspire, and it taps so directly into

713
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: our emotions. Maybe it can make us care about endangered

714
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: species that may not be as cuddly as a panda

715
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: or a koala. A listener tell usker Diaries on Instagram

716
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: sent me a story about folk music that is about

717
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: saving the bees. Climate change, these colony collapse, disorder, pesticides

718
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: have all caused a lot of problems for bee populations

719
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: for both honey bees and wild bees. Song Hive is

720
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: an archive project started by traditional Irish fiddler Rowan Pigott,

721
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: who is putting together folk songs about bees to stir

722
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: up buzz about bees for bee related environmentalist causes, such

723
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: as the bee cause. So here's a little musical sting

724
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: in the key of bee. This one is sung by

725
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: Rosie Hodgson. Bees bees hogeo bees hi from your neighbors

726
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: as much as you please. But what happens us you

727
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: must tell or else we will give you honey tis.

728
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 1: I'm mad to day stop the baby story lead. But

729
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: if you have a baby, I'm a work by nature.

730
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: I freely it's a nice and all my days in

731
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: the fiend. That's a tirable trade, which may well be

732
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: which brings all the palmer's day. That was another song

733
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: by Irish fiddler Rowan Pigott about honey bees. But to

734
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: explore one of the most mysterious songs in the world,

735
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: we need to get to know an animal that's over

736
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: five hundred million times bigger than a honeybee. So now

737
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: I want to talk about one of the most incredible

738
00:45:54,760 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: mysteries in animal behavior, and that is whale song, which

739
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: even listening to it, I get chills because it's so

740
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: there's something so ethereal about it. Do you have you

741
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: guys listened? Do you guys listen to whale song? Because

742
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,439
Speaker 1: have you heard of it. It's a band called whale Song.

743
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I can't wait. My spiritualist when we're

744
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: meditating likes to play it as we're talking about living

745
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,959
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. Just reveal my whole list Los Angelino's self.

746
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, I've been I've been meditating with the whale sounds. Yeah.

747
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: Well look I just play whale sounds sometimes too, So

748
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: you're you're good here. So what exactly is whale song?

749
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: So whale song is produced by two species of baling whales,

750
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: and that is what we basically know as whale song,

751
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: So the humpback whale and the blue whale, the blue

752
00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: whale being the biggest animal ever, it's just huge. And

753
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: then cetaceans, So that's the the animals that the marine

754
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: mammals that includes whales, dolphins in general. They all communicate

755
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: with these very complex vocalizations like clicks. They can even

756
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: have dialects, like how the sperm whales seems to have

757
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: these dialects of clicks. But whale song as we know

758
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,959
Speaker 1: it as the sort of like melodic variety of frequencies

759
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: and tones, is specific to the humpback and blue whales.

760
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: And so here is a humpback whale song which sounds

761
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: a little bit like a hunted violin mm hmmm, mm hmm.

762
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: And here is a blue whale song which sounds like

763
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: we're in a sci fi Oh my god, this is crazy.

764
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: It makes me want to like take some tidbits out

765
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: of it or sound bites and make a beat from it. Like,

766
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: I could definitely make some music from this. If you

767
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: do that, let me know, because I would love to

768
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: hear that. Uh. You know, like when you hear a

769
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: piece of music that just kind of brings you to

770
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: tears a little bit, it makes you so emotional. I

771
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: feel that way when I listen to whale song, where

772
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: I kind of want to cry because it's like, so

773
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: there's something really hauntingly beautiful about it. Also, when you

774
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: investigate the story behind whale song, it is still haunting

775
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: because it's so mysterious and interesting, and it gives you

776
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: the sense of the unknown that we know so little

777
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: about the world's largest mammal, the world's largest animal. Even so,

778
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: the way we hear whales is probably different from how

779
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: whales hear it because we're listening with underwater microphones. Then

780
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: we're listening to a recording through our human ears. But

781
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: the way that it hits whales is going to be

782
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: different because whales listen directly through the water and they

783
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: don't have external ears like we do. They have these

784
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,760
Speaker 1: internal ears, and it resonates through their jaw and bones

785
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 1: and and fatty tissues and into their ears. I don't

786
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: know what it's like to hear a whale song as

787
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: a whale. We only know what it's like to hear

788
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: a whale song as a human with our with our

789
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:41,479
Speaker 1: weird human ears, So that that itself is pretty hard

790
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: to try to try to conceptualize. There's something there's something

791
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: a little haunting about that when I think about, like

792
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: I can, I can never really understand what it's like

793
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: to hear a sound as a whale, because there experience

794
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: of that is going to be so completely different. I

795
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: imagine if you put your handerwater and then cover your

796
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: ear like real good with your hands and then like

797
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 1: scream melodically all right the water, We're probably getting close

798
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: to what a whale is earring. Hang, I'm gonna be

799
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: right back, Okay, now I'm wet, and uh, I don't

800
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: understand anything. Don't try that at home. I feel like

801
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: they don't do children mad, We're gonna all kinds of

802
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: phone calls no good. And our heads aren't really designed

803
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 1: to hear sound underwater, whereas whales, again, it's like they

804
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: have these resonant chambers inside their heads that lead to

805
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: their ears, so the way they experience the sound is

806
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: probably more full than we can as humans. And it's

807
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: interesting because these baling whales, at least these two species

808
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: of baling whales, have this like different method of community

809
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: patian than the toothed whales, the whales with teeth, and

810
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: it may have something to do with the difference in

811
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: basically their feeding behavior. So the humpback and blue whale

812
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 1: may focus on hearing low frequency sounds for long distance communication,

813
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: whereas toothed whales like dolphins, orcas, and sperm whales focus

814
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: on higher frequencies to communicate and echolocate in their more

815
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: immediate surrounding because they actually hunt for fish, Whereas baleen

816
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: whales like the humpback and the blue whales, they feed

817
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: by taking in huge gulps of sea water and then

818
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: smooching it out through that baleine, which is that keratin

819
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: structure at the front of their mouth that looks like

820
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: a push broom all over their mouth, and then as

821
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: they shove that seawater out of their mouth inside of

822
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: the bristles, all these little krill and other tasty, little

823
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: edible sea creatures get stuck in there, and then they

824
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: just eat that up. So they're more a much more

825
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,479
Speaker 1: passive feeder. They don't have to chase after any prey

826
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: to eat it. So for them, having that immediate echolocation

827
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: around them and immediate communication close by is not as

828
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: important as perhaps more long distance communication to be able

829
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: to locate other members of their group over long distances

830
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: um or to find mates. It's also an interesting question

831
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: about whether baling whales actually echolocate. We don't really know,

832
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: which seems like we should at this point noe that

833
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: about them, but we don't. We there's some research that

834
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: seems to suggest no, they're not really they don't really

835
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: rely on echolocation. But there's other research that's that's showing that, like, hey,

836
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: maybe their songs and their vocalizations actually could be used

837
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 1: for echolocation. We just we don't know. That's always fun

838
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 1: in science, and we just don't know. Something I like

839
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 1: the idea of a humpback whale or even a blue

840
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: whale being their own GPS system. But it's like a

841
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: very dope music, you know what I mean, sort of

842
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: like we get boring to like turn left here. They're

843
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: like really general like turn left here, and it's like,

844
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:23,439
Speaker 1: oh yeah, disco whales, disco whales. I love that. Yes, yes,

845
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: that would be great. I feel like whatever research study

846
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: comes out to see if these singing whales use that

847
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 1: to echo locate, it should be called disco whales, and

848
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 1: I won't accept anything else. The question is what do

849
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,240
Speaker 1: they use their their whale song? What do humpback whales

850
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: and blue whales use their songs for? We kind of

851
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: are going to get a little bit back into like

852
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: what we learned about birds. So both males and females

853
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: will do vocalizations like these, like sort of smaller vocalizations

854
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: that seem to be more for communicating with other individuals

855
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 1: a spy to them. But those long melodic haunting songs

856
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: is really just coming from the males. So that's a

857
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: similar thing that that we see in many bird species,

858
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: where it tends to be the male birds singing rather

859
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: than the females. So that may give us some hints

860
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: about like this could potentially have something to do with mating,

861
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:27,760
Speaker 1: but we've never really observed blue whales or humpback whales mating,

862
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: so we don't know. These are private creatures. We study

863
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: the hell out of these guys, we've never like once

864
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: been like oh, I thought, idea. There's just not that

865
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: much documentation on how their mating works. They are very

866
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: I think it's just the difficulty of you can't like

867
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 1: position researchers down under deep underwater for months on end

868
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,919
Speaker 1: just hoping something happens. Now, you'd think that there would

869
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: be an eccentric billionaire that creates a submarine that people

870
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: can live in, like stocks whales, and it's like, come on,

871
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: do it, do it, do it and try to study.

872
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: I like to think they're like puritanical and they like

873
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: go like way way down to deep where there's no

874
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,399
Speaker 1: light and they're like this is perfect, like yeah, yeah,

875
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: And they have like a they have like a cottage

876
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: down at the bottom of the ocean and like the

877
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: whale groom is carrying the whale bride behind to the

878
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: doors of the giant whale cottage and you know, or

879
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: just like a yeah, So what one thing that's interesting

880
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: is that you can actually kind of identify groups of

881
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: whales based on the songs that they're singing. So, Joel,

882
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: you asked a really interesting question at the top of

883
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: the episode about birds about like, you know, do they

884
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: have these individual songs do they change over time? And

885
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,320
Speaker 1: that's we talked about what that is like for the birds.

886
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: But for these whales, their songs slowly evolve over time

887
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 1: and is specific to each group of whales. So you

888
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: may have a group of whales from one region and

889
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: a group of whales from another region, and their songs

890
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: are going to be different um from each other, and

891
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: then they're also going to slowly evolve over time into

892
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: sort of different types of songs. So like when you

893
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 1: take sort of a slice in time of what's happening

894
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,399
Speaker 1: with these whales, it'll sound like they have just one

895
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: song that this group sings, and that that's true. Then

896
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: like a few decades from now, that song is going

897
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 1: to be a little different, but they are all singing

898
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: that same song. So that's again really interesting. It just

899
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: seems like these songs are actually part of the whales

900
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 1: culture that they learn and then it evolves, much like

901
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: human music, it evolves over time, which is I think

902
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: really interesting. So you have to name these clans of whales,

903
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:55,720
Speaker 1: merchandise them, give them like color coding systems or something

904
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: so that people can attach and like you think your

905
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: favorite Harry Potterhouse, your favorite whale plan, and then you

906
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: just really rock with that song. And then I don't

907
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: know how we can do it safely because I know

908
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 1: Sonar is messing with the whales and the way that

909
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 1: your patterns are swimming and stuff. But like if we

910
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: could project the music back at that and be like,

911
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: this is our remix of your deadly song and just

912
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:21,479
Speaker 1: see what the reaction is, please exactly when you start

913
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: partnering with our Animal Earth friends and and beautiful collab.

914
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 1: But then we're just going to get into these like,

915
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: oh's this post industrial whale rock or is this like

916
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: is this sort of like avant garde whale rock and

917
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: it's going to be insufferable, sufferable, your scientist, this is

918
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: the best. But so yeah, the purpose of these songs

919
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: is highly mysterious. The leading theories are that it is

920
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: used by males to find mates over long distances, used

921
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: by males to induce estros and females, that is, to

922
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,919
Speaker 1: make them ready to mate, which I'm not exactly sure

923
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: about that one, but maybe here and then. Um. It

924
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: could also be as a way to communicate or to

925
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: warn other males of their presence, so similar to birds,

926
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 1: where it's like, hey, this is my territory, Like we

927
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: don't have to like I don't think whales really fight

928
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: each other that much, but it's just a way of

929
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: like saying, hey, let's you know, we don't need to

930
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: we don't need to bonk into each other, we don't

931
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: need to like, uh, compete over resources in this territory.

932
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,919
Speaker 1: Let's kind of maintain this distance so that we each

933
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: have our little slice of ocean life. Could also be

934
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: to communicate with distant groups. Uh, so like you know,

935
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: you have a whale or two over here, and it's like, hey,

936
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: how are you guys over there? But it's like way

937
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 1: eight miles away. That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, whales on

938
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: their cell phones, but they're just like, where are guys?

939
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: Do you wanna get McDonald? But it's c McDonald that

940
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: makes me think about evolution in period because say something

941
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: should say this, just say something catastrophic happens. You got

942
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: the whales. They can communicate really far. You got the

943
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: birds who can sing to each other and just communicate,

944
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: but then our power goes out. What are we going

945
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: to do? That's why we must form on the alliance

946
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: with the birds in the whales, so we have have

947
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: agents both in the air and in the seas. Okay, okay,

948
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: there's actually some research on blue whales and a Cyrvic

949
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: and her team of oceanographers at Script's Institute of Oceanography

950
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: in La Joya, California, which is actually in the same

951
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 1: department that my dad works. So this is definitely nepotism

952
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: and bias that I am, you know, full disclosure. But

953
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: they did a study on blue whales and they found

954
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: that blue whales dived down deeper in the ocean to

955
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: do their songs. And because the nature of the water

956
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: changes as you get deeper, and like the water pressure

957
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: increases and allows for further transmission of these sounds, it

958
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: seems to indicate that they are diving down deeper in

959
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: order to transmit their songs across further distances. So that

960
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: does seem to indicate that these whales songs are for

961
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: long distance relationships, whereas the there are other vocalizations they

962
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: are closer to the surface of the water, so that

963
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: seems to indicate that is more for like sort of

964
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 1: a short, shorter distance communication. So yeah, it's it's one

965
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 1: of those things where when you're feeling like, oh, we

966
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: already know everything about the natural world, what's left for

967
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 1: me to do as a young aspiring scientists, it's like, no,

968
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,959
Speaker 1: we don't we we don't know anything, right, right, there's

969
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 1: so little we know. And I actually feel like asia

970
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: that the deep ocean is kind of similar to space

971
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,959
Speaker 1: and how mysterious it is. Like absolutely when you spoke

972
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: about a submarine, having a submarine that people some tech

973
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 1: whiz or something that having a submarine that someone could

974
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: live down there or in deepest possibly could go, that's

975
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: the same thing in space we're trying to get like

976
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: hotels or just regular human flight travel. So things are

977
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 1: happening on both ends of the spectrum. There exactly a

978
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: bit cool so that we can discover space whales, cosmic

979
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: disco whales. God, I wish so anyone listening who is

980
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: an aspiring scientists and aspiring evolutionary biologist or any anything

981
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: in the field of stem listen to listen to some music,

982
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: get inspired, and please discover the mystery of whales because

983
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: maybe they know the meaning of life and we're they're

984
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: just singing about the meaning of life and all of

985
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: life's answers and we just don't know what they're saying.

986
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: You the first to craft the code. You can do

987
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: it well. Dejah, thank you so much for joining me today.

988
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you talking about the work you do

989
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 1: and the wonderful music that you make. That is it's

990
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:53,919
Speaker 1: I really I will include a link to it because

991
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 1: I feel like people really should check it out. It's

992
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: such I love, I love, I don't I get I

993
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: get chills thinking about just like combining music with education.

994
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Um can where can people find you? Um So?

995
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: You can find me on my website at Dejah Williams

996
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 1: dot com, or you can follow me on Instagram where

997
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: I'm most present at uh deja d A j A

998
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: E dot mone or the same thing on Twitter, but

999
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: instead of a period, it's a underschool and Joe. Where

1000
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 1: can people find you? Oh? You guys know me. You

1001
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: can find me all over the internet at Jowa Monique

1002
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: that's j O E L L E m O n

1003
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: I q u E. And you can find us at

1004
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: Creature Feature Pod on Instagram at Creature feet Pot on Twitter.

1005
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 1: That's f A T, not f E T. That is

1006
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: something very different and you can find me at Katie

1007
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: Golden on Twitter or you know, just post my Katie thoughts.

1008
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: And as always, I'm also at Pro Bird Rights where look,

1009
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: this wasn't bird propaganda and I'll see you if you

1010
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 1: claim it was. Thank you so much to the space

1011
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: Coassics for their super awesome song Exo Lumina. Creature Feature

1012
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts

1013
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: like the one you just heard, visit the I heart

1014
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or Hey guess what where have

1015
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows? See you next Wednesday.