1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: Hi, this is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: on the b n F podcast. Now, if you're like me, 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: you have probably been bombarded with a number of different 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: emails and news alerts in perhaps TV programs that addressed 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: what did anne did not happen at this year's COP 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: our COP twenty seven and Charmel Shake Well, B and 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: e F headed into this event, we have a specific 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: look at what's happening at the energy transition, and we 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: outline the things that we are watching closely to see 10 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: whether or not there has or has not been progress 11 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: made in conversations on a number of key areas. Headed 12 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: into that they get a score one to ten. In 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: the middle of the event, they also get a score 14 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: from one to ten, and then following the event, they 15 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: get a score from one to ten. Now, my colleague 16 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: Victoria coming, she's the global head of Policy at b 17 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: n EF. She does this scorecard and she's been doing 18 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: this for well over a dozen years now. Vicky is 19 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: going to be joining us today and talking to us 20 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: about where we got to in COP twenty seven, the 21 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: things that really stood out for her in terms of 22 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: progress and where she thinks that things have gone right, 23 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: as well as where maybe conversations have stalled and she 24 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: wants to see where things are going to go actually 25 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: next year. As a reminder, B and EF does not 26 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: provide investment strategy advice, and you can hear a complete 27 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: disclaimer at the end of the show. Now let's hear 28 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: a little bit more what Vicky thought about what happened 29 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 1: at COP twenty seven and the things have stood out 30 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: to her as someone who watches every single one of 31 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: these and gives it a scorecard. Vicky, thank you so 32 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: much for coming on the show today to talk to 33 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: us about the most recent COP. Thank you very much 34 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: for having me. So there have been a lot of newsletters, 35 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: news updates, webinars. I've seen all kinds of updates regarding 36 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: what has happened with COP, and we at B an 37 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: F take a kind of specific look at it and 38 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: that we go into it with an idea of what 39 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: it is that we are watching and then at the 40 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: end do a bit of a scorecard. So we'll get 41 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: into the different You know, you have nine metrics son 42 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: which you graded and gave a score to this particular cup, 43 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: but just generally, what were some of your expectations this 44 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: year COP we expected and indeed was very different kettle 45 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: of fish to say, Copy COP twenty six was the 46 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: fifth COP after the one where the Paris agreement was settled, 47 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: and so there was a lot of fanfare. There was 48 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: a lot of initiatives announced and new targets, and there 49 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: was bolder ambition, and we didn't expect that to happen 50 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: again in Shashaike. We expected more of a kind of 51 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: detailed discussions of how they were actually going to achieve 52 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: all of those commitments and initiatives that were announced in Glasgow. 53 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: Hence why the host Egypt framed it as Implementation COP. Okay, 54 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: it was meant to be the implementation Cup, and yet 55 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: things in some areas made backslided. But let's start off 56 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: with the sunny stuff. We're sitting here, we're looking for 57 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: glimmers of hope. What was the thing that emerged that 58 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: surprised you? Maybe there are more than one that you 59 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: didn't expect to get discussed this couple. We maybe made 60 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: some progress, So let's start with the optimistic things. In 61 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: terms of what surprised me, I think that the number 62 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: one thing is that parties agreed to set up some 63 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: kind of loss and Damage Fund. So that's a specific 64 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: kind of funding mechanism dedicated to support for developing countries 65 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: to address loss and damage from unavoidable climate change. And 66 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: this issue has been discussed for many years with no progress. 67 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: So on the one side you had developing countries really 68 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: arguing for such a facility, and then other side we 69 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: had developed countries, especially the US and the EU, are 70 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: really adamant that they didn't want to have any form 71 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: of specific funding for loss and damage. And one of 72 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: the main reasons whilst they didn't want to leave themselves 73 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: open to claims of compensation, they didn't really want to 74 00:03:54,320 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: open that Pandora's box. However, that you host African Shiating 75 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: Group and developing countries in general really wanted this to 76 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: be agreed in CHAML shake. With the kind of long 77 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: campaigning with NGOs and civil society as well as governments, 78 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: they were successful and they managed to reach an agreement 79 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: on such a fund. There are kind of lots of 80 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: questions to be answered, what exactly does loss and damage mean, 81 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: and who is going to be contributing to this fund 82 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: and who's going to benefit from this fund. So there 83 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: was kind of nuance wording around this which we can 84 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: get into about who was going to contribute and who's 85 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: going to benefit, and I think the nuance there was 86 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: concessions to the rich countries to get them to actually agree. 87 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: Why do you think this was the year that last 88 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: and damage came to the table and there was progress 89 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: made on it, because as you noted, it was kicked 90 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: around year after year, and this then became the year 91 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: that that's the phrase that people are really talking about 92 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: a lot right now this week. So I think there 93 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: are several reasons. One of them is that we are 94 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: increasingly seeing the impact in practice of climate change. So 95 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: we had the floods in Pakistan, and we've had extreme 96 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: weather events around the world, so it really is unavoidable 97 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: to seeing these real life impacts, and I think that 98 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: was fuel for these developing country governments to really argue 99 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: for it. It does help if you have a house 100 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: country that's also supporting it. So what happened in Glasgow 101 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: was that the issue was raised and asked to be 102 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: included in the official agenda of copy but it was 103 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: blocked by various developed country parties, whereas this time it 104 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: was actually included on the agenda. And when we saw that, 105 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: we thought oh, actually, maybe they'll reach agreement this time. 106 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: So where do we go from here? In that it's 107 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: been established and there has been commitments made to create 108 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: this fund, but presumably there's a lot of work that 109 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: needs to be done between this year and this time 110 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: next year. What are the different inflection points, if you will, 111 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: and markers along the next year do you think will 112 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: take place? What they agreed? Do you have two weeks 113 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: of discussion the main kind of agreement decision text which 114 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: is called the cover decision, and this year it's called 115 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: the Charmashak Implementation Plan. You will actually only get to 116 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: say twelve lines about each item. We don't know that 117 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: much detail. We do know that they're going to set 118 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: up what they call a transitional committee that's going to 119 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: look at things like the scope. So there are lots 120 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: of funding streams all around cop and they want to 121 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: look at existing mechanisms and whether those could feed into 122 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: this new fund. They need to look at who is 123 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: going to contribute to this fund. I think one of 124 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: the concessions that the EU and the US are goued 125 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: for was to make it clear that it wasn't just 126 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: going to be annexed one parties that developed country parties 127 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: who would contribute to this fund, especially, they wanted to 128 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: leave the door open to say China contributing. So really, historically, 129 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: developed countries and X one parties have been the ones 130 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: responsible for hiding climate finance to developing countries, with the 131 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: argument being that developed country parties were responsible for the 132 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: bulk of historical greenhouse gas emissions. However, some emerging economies, 133 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: so there's those classified with the name non annexed one parties, 134 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: actually account for a sizeable share of emissions, not just 135 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: now increasingly, but also historically. So China accounted for something 136 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: like fourteen percent of historical emissions since seventeen fifty, the 137 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: EU accounted for sixteen percent, so only two percentage point more. 138 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: And similarly there are Russia, for example, is not on 139 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: the line for bribing climate finance historically, but it's accounted 140 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: for seven percent for historical emissions. So that is one 141 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: of the I think going to be controversial points. And 142 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: then the other things that who benefits from this fund. 143 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: There's wording in the text about developing countries that are 144 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: vulnerable to climate change are the rich countries. Wanted to 145 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: make it clear that it wasn't necessarily going to benefit China, 146 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,679 Speaker 1: that's the aim anyway, What about other countries that also 147 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: sit on the G twenty which incidentally took place the 148 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: kind of right in the middle of Cup twenty seven, 149 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: so you had all of these negotiations happening and in 150 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: some places actually converging a little bit. So I'm thinking 151 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: of other countries that actually exist on that list, which 152 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: includes the Lakes of India or Indonesia, and do they 153 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: sit on the side of the list that actually funds 154 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: or receives benefit from the lost and damage funding. So 155 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: that is the big question. What the Transitional Committee will 156 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: need to do is draw up probably what will end 157 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: up being a very long report, which will then be 158 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: up for discussion at COP twenty eight at the end 159 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: of next year. So it's not yet clear. From a 160 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: historical perspective of Indonesia, accounting of a very small share 161 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: less than one percent of historical emissions, India is about 162 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: the same as Japan, so we could see arguments that 163 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: they would need to start contributing. I think that in 164 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: the Indian government would argue strongly that would not be 165 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: the case. It's funny in discussions of the climate negotiations, 166 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: people often put China in India together as being the same. 167 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 1: But actually if you look not just in the share 168 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: of historical emissions, but if you look at st GDP 169 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: per capita, that's very different. They will also need to 170 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: take into account that funding ability of these countries as well, 171 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: and has there been a lot of conversation around what 172 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: funding towards loss and damage would mean in regard to 173 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: funds that are maybe not available for mitigation and kind 174 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: of plugging the whole as opposed to finding the source 175 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: of the week. In the Chamel Shake implementation plant, one 176 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: thing it does specify is that funds should be new 177 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: and additional because developing countries are very keen that developed 178 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: countries don't just take the funds that had previously been 179 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: targeted at reducing emissions that what we call mitigation or 180 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: adapting to the effects of climate change, so that they're 181 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: due to be on top of these funds. So let's 182 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: talk about how from one cop to the next. And actually, Vickie, 183 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: how long have you been covering cops at bien EF 184 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: BIENF since I started, So like the very beginning of 185 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: twenty ten. It's just after we've had a Copenhagen. So 186 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: since you have been covering COPS since Copenhagen. This actually 187 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: provides a really great frame of reference in terms of 188 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: time and actually activities. So if we rewind the clock, 189 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: we can actually talk about the one hundred billion dollar 190 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: climate finance target that was set. And actually that was 191 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: one of the things that you had your eye on 192 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: headed into copy for your report card when you were 193 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: looking at where we may or may not be making progress. 194 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: So it would be really interesting to hear where we 195 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: actually got to on that, in particular in context around 196 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: loss and damage and maybe what we might think about 197 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: when we're trying to get this right, because it's one 198 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: thing to be funding certain activities at a COP and 199 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: one thing, I guess a little bit different to actually 200 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: do it in the end. Yes, indeed, and that's the 201 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: concerning because developed countries don't really have a great track 202 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: record in terms of delivering on their climate finance commitments. 203 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: So they made this commitment in Copenhagen to deliver on 204 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: a hundred billion dollars a year of climate finance by 205 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: and we now know that they did not meet that commitment. 206 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: They delivered some eighty three billion dollars. We suspected as 207 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: much in Glasgow last year, but unfortunately the climate packed 208 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: there was fairly weak. So it urged developed countries to 209 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: meet this target through five. And what was irksome about 210 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: that was because the O et D had published scenarios 211 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: as to when they thought developed countries could meet this 212 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: target and they said three, so they gave two extra years. 213 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: And then what's additionally ACM is that in the Charmelshak 214 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: Implementation Plan there is no deadline, so it urges them 215 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,080 Speaker 1: again to meet this. But unfortunately, if we're going to 216 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: take this as an evidence of whether or not they 217 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: will deliver on the lost and damage funding, things don't 218 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: look great now for a very short break stay with us. Okay. 219 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 1: So another thing that when we've alluded to and then 220 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: let's discuss it, so CUP twenty and the G twenty 221 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,239 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of overlap and there were discussions 222 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: at the G twenty that aligned very well with a 223 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: lot of the dialogue at C. That's the just Energy 224 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: Transition Partnership. And are they referring to that is the 225 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: g TEP or the g e t P, A jet P, 226 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: the jet we were told by the US government. Okay, 227 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: so the jet P, can you tell me, what is 228 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: the jet P. So the jet P is an example 229 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: of what they call a country platform. So this is 230 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: this new kind of approach or framework where one developing 231 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: country will reach an agreement with various developed countries who 232 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: agree to provide a certain amount of funding but also 233 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: to support the developed country to design a strategy to decarbonize. 234 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: And generally they focused on the energy sector, but sometimes 235 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: additional sectors like the transport and hydrogen say, and these 236 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: seem to be growing in popularity so far. There was 237 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: announcements relating to Egypt, there was the announcement last year 238 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: related to South Africa and they've made some progress on 239 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: that in the last year, and there was also the 240 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: Indonesian one that was announced this year. The jet P exactly, okay, 241 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: so you can expect these to happen every year. I 242 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: would expect to see more of them happen. I think 243 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: we would see more of them happen, especially if we 244 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: actually see some of these strategies lead to funding being 245 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: actually provided, handing it over, and more importantly, the projects 246 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: actually being done in real life. So far, it's all 247 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: on paper. There's kind of strategies being developed and strategies 248 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: to develop strategies being developed, so hopefully soon we'll actually 249 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: see in some actual climate action. Now, it was the 250 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: volatility that we've seen with energy prices around the world. 251 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: I assume that were was a great deal of talk 252 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: regarding both energy priverty and energy security at this year's Cup. 253 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: How did it feature. It's funny really, because there was 254 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: discussions in various parties, say, statements of some of the 255 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: various pressures that they have been facing, whether it's the 256 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: energy crisis and or food security crisis, and the need 257 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: to take account of these pressures in the same way 258 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: as in previous years, especially in Glasgow, they talked about 259 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen pandemic. So these were all noted in 260 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: the Charmel Shake implementation plan. The cop doesn't tend to 261 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: focus on ulstering energy security directly. Rather its focuses on decarbonizing. 262 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: But these kind of pressures will always affect what kind 263 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: of commitments parties are willing to make actually on the ground. 264 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: So one of the things that came up last year 265 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: in Glasgow was Article sex and this is the conversation 266 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: around carbon markets. Given that this was meant to be 267 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: the implementation Cup, what progress did or didn't we make 268 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: on Article six and carbon specifically this year. So Articles 269 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: six is articles of the Paris Agreement, and this part 270 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: of the deal is meant to help devise mechanisms that 271 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: will allow parties to cooperate in order to meet their 272 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: climate targets. So Article six point two is where parties 273 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: can agree by lateral deals to exchange what they call 274 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: internationally transferred mitigation outcomes, which are generally like emission reduction credits, 275 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: in order to help the other party the buy a 276 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: party to actually achieve their targets. And then the other 277 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: one is Article six point four, and that's for a 278 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: new global offset trading program, a bit like you might 279 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: have heard of the U N Clean Development Mechanism. So 280 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: we did make good progress in Glasgow. There were some 281 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: relic issues that had taken years of aciations that they 282 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: actually reached agreement on, but there were some very kind 283 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: of detailed mechanistic things that they needed to agree on 284 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: and shall not shake. However they didn't. Unfortunately, parties were 285 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: unable to reach a consensus on many of these issues. 286 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: So about halfway through the kind of working group that 287 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: was looking at this issue specifically issued draft texts which 288 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: essentially said they couldn't agree, and these went forward and 289 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: were ultimately adopted. So in essence, they agreed that they 290 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: would discuss all these issues again, cocked and eight. So 291 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: they keep the count down the road unfortunately, and the 292 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: door is still open. Oh yes, absolutely, I think Article 293 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: six point two deals are starting to happen more frequently, 294 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: these bilateral deals. The real kind of issues when the 295 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: Article six point for this new global offset market mechanism 296 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: actually can begin. Given these further delays, and so perhaps 297 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: the most important thing, at least in my mind as 298 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: you head into a carp is how are we doing 299 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: against the emissions reduction targets that so many countries have stated? 300 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: How are we doing? Especially given that last year's mantra 301 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: was keep one point five alive? And increasingly I am 302 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: seeing headlines and I'm seeing industry insiders talking a little 303 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: bit about Okay, I'm not really sure. I fully see 304 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: the pathway and that door is closing. Where did we 305 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: get to in Charmel Shaik in relation to whether or 306 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: not that door is open A crack for one point five? 307 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: I think it was well summarized by the COP twenty 308 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: six president this year at the end of cope A 309 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: look Chama, he said that one point five is now 310 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: on life support, and I think that's very much shown 311 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: by the commitments that have been made in terms of 312 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: emission reduction targets for thirty by parties. So the UN 313 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: produces each year synthesis report of the climate plans, and 314 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: it looks like even if those were achieved, and even 315 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: if the pledges that are conditional and financial or technical 316 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: support to achieved, we're still nowhere near even a two 317 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: degrees target. However, well, some people might say that what's 318 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: the point in continuing to use the rhetoric around one 319 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: point five degrees that's definitely not going to happen. I 320 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: would say that even if we don't think it's going 321 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: to happen, and certainly based on current commitments and current 322 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 1: action on the ground, it's not going to happen, I 323 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: would still say that we should still be aiming for 324 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: that target and strive towards it, because the alternative is 325 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: that we reduce our target and say, okay, we'll aim 326 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,239 Speaker 1: for two or three degrees, and then we miss that. 327 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: So I think it's still is meaningful to start talk 328 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: about this one point five degrees and what the laws 329 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: in damage conversation I think really brings to the forefront 330 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: here is that for every part of a degree that 331 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: we don't end up hitting, there is going to be 332 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: increasing pressure to fund that loss and damage side of 333 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: the equation. More and more so that battle between mitigation 334 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: and to some degrees adaptation or actually in the lost 335 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: and damage category really just reacting to things that are happening, 336 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 1: all of which cost money. Exactly, by agreeing to a 337 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: loss and damage fund, developed countries have in essence put 338 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: more pressure on themselves to propose more ambitious commitments and 339 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: actually achieved them and therefore in theory reduced the loss 340 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: and damage funding that would need to be produced. Now. Also, 341 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: something that happened last year is this Global Methane Pledge 342 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: or methane depending upon your accent and how British I'm 343 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: feeling on the day, So methane methane, Where did we 344 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: get to? So actually, out of all the kind of 345 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: many initiatives that were announced in Glasgow along with the jetps, 346 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: we can see more action happening. So various countries that 347 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: signed up to the pledge have met between Copton six 348 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: seven and they're starting to design pathways or strategies focus 349 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: on individual sectors of how they could achieve this meeting pledge, 350 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: which is to collectively reduce methane emissions by as well 351 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: as the kind of initiatives and discussions between governments, we're 352 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: also seeing actual individual governments take action and implement policies 353 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: to even reduce the mission pen thean emissions specifically, so 354 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: the US, Canada, the EU, they're all actually starting to 355 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: implement domestic policy as well, you know, and equally on forestry, 356 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: which is our our world's lungs as many people point out, 357 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: but also this incredible source of carbon capture. What has 358 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: happened this year on forestry in terms of kind of 359 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: nature and biodiversity more broadly, One of the first that 360 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: we did see in this COPE text was more recognition 361 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: of the need to address by diversity loss and nature 362 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: and the fact that it overlaps with the need to 363 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: address climate change. In terms of forestry specifically, there was 364 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: for the first time a dedicated section of the COP 365 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: twenty seven text for forestry, and one of the initiatives 366 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: that we actually saw last year that is also continuing 367 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: this year is around this kind of declaration to halt 368 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: forestry loss, and some of the countries signed up to 369 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: the partnership last year are starting to embark on substantive 370 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: discussions to achieve that pledge in order to meet the 371 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: stated emissions production targets. In order to keep one point 372 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: five or anything sub two degrees on life support. There 373 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 1: is a commonly understood rhetoric around the need for us 374 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: to really phase out coal and to think about also 375 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: electrifying large parts of the energy system, and variably we 376 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: at B and the F for looking at the energy transition. 377 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: So that's really the focus of what we're looking at 378 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: when we look at this CUP. But when we talk 379 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: about coal, qualified power stations have actually kind of come 380 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: back a little bit this year with a lot of 381 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: the issues around energy security in pricing. What sort of 382 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: impact did that ham do you think? And the conversations 383 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: at CUP twenty seven around coal and the progress maybe 384 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: we made or didn't make on phase out plans. The 385 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: kind of short answer is the Charms Shake text reiterates 386 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 1: what was in the Glasgow Climate Packed that this commitment 387 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: to phase down unabated coal. Again this year, there was 388 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: a long discussion about whether the phase down should be 389 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 1: a phase out, which has deemed to be a kind 390 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: of more ambitious option, and also whether we could extend 391 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: that from unabated cult to unabated fossil fuels. So, for example, India, 392 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: the e various other annexed one parties were really pushing 393 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: for that. However, that got pushed back from developing countries 394 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: who have recently discovered oil and gas reserves themselves and 395 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: would like to explore them. And also, as often happens 396 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: that the kind of oil and gas producers, so say 397 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: Russia Saudi Arabia were adamant that it wasn't going to 398 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: be extended to fossil fuels. We didn't see say some 399 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: European countries that have had to restart cold power plants 400 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: or have to differ their phase out plans temporarily because 401 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: of they're trying to switch away from Russian gas. We 402 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: didn't see them reduced their ambition. They were still pushing forward. 403 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: But again it was really the relic issues again, discussions 404 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: around fossil fuels, whether or not it can be mentioned 405 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: in the text itself, and what kind of ambition are 406 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: going to be agreed to. Now for a very short break, 407 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: stay with us now switching tracks to adaptation how do 408 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: you think the event did and adaptation and well the 409 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: financing targets associated with it and also metrics. So I 410 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: was somewhat surprised that adaptation didn't feature more in COP 411 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: twenty seven because host country Egypt and developing countries had 412 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: been pushing for it to be addressed. On a part 413 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: we've met gation. So historically adaptation has been the ugly 414 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: sister or something of the mitigation, and so it's generally 415 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: harder to secure financing for these projects and it just 416 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: hasn't got the same amount of attention. So there was 417 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: discussion of various aspects about adaptation, but maybe I can 418 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,719 Speaker 1: focus one of the optimistic ones, which was on the financing. 419 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: Actually in Glasgow, developed countries agreed that they would double 420 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: adaptation financing between and based on the figures, which is 421 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: the latest data that we have, it looks like they 422 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: would be on track to actually meeting this target. But 423 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: it depends on the multiplicity of factors and we will 424 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: see how the kind of overlaps with the loss and 425 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: damage financing discussions pan out. So you head into this 426 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: with scores and a skill of what one to ten 427 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: to try and have a sense of how we did 428 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: in moving forward conversations in all of these different categories, 429 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: and we haven't even gone through everything that we've looked 430 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: at or that anybody really could look at regarding all 431 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: the different things that were happening at COP. So even 432 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: for example, this was the first year that there was 433 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: I guess, an entire youth area at a COP But 434 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: there's also been a lot of conversation, as you reference, 435 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: regarding biodiversity, which actually incidentally has its own COP and 436 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: is now starting to feature at the one on climate. 437 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: But if you hadn't, if pressed, let's go through, maybe 438 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: quick fire, your three biggest disappointments, but then also the 439 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: three things that stood out to you as maybe positive 440 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: surprises in terms of progress and conversations. Okay, so let's 441 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: start with the good stuff. I think my top three 442 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: would be that they achieved agreement on this loss and 443 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: damage funds, that they have recognized the need tackle both 444 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: climate change and biodiversity loss and they need to do 445 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: in a coordinated way. And number three, I would say 446 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: maybe the progress on methane emissions. So this kind of 447 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: recently has gone up in terms of the people's attention 448 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: and actually both countries and companies seem to be taking 449 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: action on that. Often the less good side, I would 450 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: say the things that I found disappointing was that the 451 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: kind of reopening of old wounds. So there are various things, 452 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: for example, that were agreed in the Glasgow Climate Pact, 453 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: and you would have thought going into COP twenty seven 454 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: we would seek to build on that. However, that wasn't 455 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: necessarily the case. In the article six discussions, the discussions 456 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: on cole the general kind of overall ambition discussions, the 457 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 1: kind of rehashing of the same ground is alarming. I 458 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: think the lack of progress on the hundred billion dollars 459 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: a year pledge. What's most concerning is the fact that 460 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: there seems to be a lack of urgency on the 461 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: part of developed countries to deliver on that. And what's 462 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: worth bearing in mind is the important thing is not 463 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: really how much a hundred billion dollars a year is, 464 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: because it's actually maybe a tenth of what's needs to 465 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: be I did in terms investment to reaching at zero 466 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: by the middle of the century. But it's the kind 467 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: of building of trust between developed countries and developing countries 468 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: and by providing some of the climate finance. The idea 469 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: is that in theory, emerging economies with growing emissions should 470 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: be willing to take on our ambitious commitments themselves. So 471 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: that's that's somewhat alarming. And then my last one has 472 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: to be an Article six because agreeing to not agree 473 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: and then delaying the discussion for another year, it's not 474 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: very reassuring. Okay. So on the topic of delaying the 475 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: discussion in another year, how much of an influence does 476 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: the host country who said the agenda have on what 477 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: you think the conversations are in the cup and cups 478 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: are and then also how much progress they ultimately end 479 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: up making. So I think we've seen only this year 480 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: and last year that the host country it doesn't make 481 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: the final decision on what's on the agenda, but it 482 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: certainly constructive things, put focus on things so that certain 483 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: items get more attention. I think the cop president plays 484 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: in a particularly important part, and we saw very kind 485 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: of distinctive approaches between last year's and this year. Is 486 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: where last year we had Alokxhama there all the time, 487 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: seemingly pushing things forward. This year there seemed to be 488 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: more of a handsoff approach, which I think caused some 489 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: confusion on the ground, and who knows, it may not 490 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: have helped with achieving more ambitious outcome. So now we've 491 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,959 Speaker 1: got almost a full year for the next group in 492 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: the u A and the next coup will be held 493 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: in Dubai, so for them to think about the sort 494 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: of things that they want to achieve and to maybe 495 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: see what sort of progress there can be made on 496 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: some of these things that have been pushed next year, 497 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: and certainly because you will still be here, promise me, 498 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: because we need another scorecard to find out how we've 499 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: done on the variously stated targets and what will more 500 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: than likely be another implementation cap well, it certainly needs 501 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: to because it did not happen this year. I think 502 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: that the whole process itself could see some being made 503 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: more efficient and improved. One of the reasons why it's 504 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: so difficult to get agreement. It has to be unanimous, 505 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,959 Speaker 1: and trying to get agreement when you have two hundred 506 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: parties or so is really tough, and some people would 507 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: argue that it's smart. Important is the specific things that 508 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: are agreed at these cops, but more the overall direction 509 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: that it gives to domestic policy makers and companies and investors. 510 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: One of the other things that people mentioned when they're 511 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: heading into this COP was that it might be the 512 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: Africa COP as well, just given that it was being 513 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: held in North Africa, and I know this is not 514 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: the first normal it be probably be the last coup 515 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: held on this continent. However, how much of the conversation 516 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: I guess, with the inclusion of last endamage, how much 517 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: of the conversation really did focus on things that specifically 518 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: impacted Africa and where they are in One can say 519 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: the energy transition, but actually is a story also of 520 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: energy and infrastructure build out. I was surprised. I was 521 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: expecting to see more of a the fact that it 522 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: was framed as being an African COP and he thought 523 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: it was executing to see that have more of an 524 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: influence over what discussions focused on. But in actual reality, 525 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: much of the discussions focused on the same things that 526 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,719 Speaker 1: are discussed at every COP really, so mitigation, adaptation, what 527 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: do we do with coal, what do we do with 528 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: fossil fuels in general? How much money needs to be 529 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: provided and where is it going to come from? The 530 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: only thing I guess I would point to is that 531 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: as well as an energy crisis, Africa's facing a severe 532 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: food crisis, and this implementation texture from Charles Shake included 533 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: more coverage than has happened before in terms of agriculture 534 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: and food, but otherwise it didn't really flavor much of 535 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: CUT fifteen for bio diversity is coming up. Will you 536 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: be watching that and also giving that a scorecard? Finally 537 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: enough we will. So I'm working with a colleague called Alistair, 538 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: and he and I are deciding at the moment what 539 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: metrics we should highlight in terms of where we expect 540 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: to see progress and how much progress we expect to 541 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: see in Montreal, and how much do you think there'll 542 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: be any kind of rehashing of any topics that came 543 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: up at CAP twenty in CHERML, say perhaps on forestry 544 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: or other aspects slant so when the kind of main 545 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: overlap could be really because there really wasn't that much 546 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: discussion at Climate Corp about nature and biodiversity, although it 547 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: is mentioned in the text. I think therefore in bio 548 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: cop as we call it, the focus won't be so 549 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: much on emissions reduction and say kind of adaptation specifically 550 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: to climate change. So VICKI final question, we're just going 551 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: to wipe the slate, Queen, you've been covering perhaps for years. 552 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: They go on a lot of different directions, and invariably 553 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: that's not surprising. Climate change is a very complex issue. 554 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: But let's say we were to approach this with no 555 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: previous baggage. What would be the main things that you 556 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: would focus on for next year? And how would you 557 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: approach it if you were in charge? Oh, if I 558 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: was in charge, I would reform the whole cop process itself. 559 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: I think that trying to get these detailed agreements based 560 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: on unanimity is not actually very efficient or deeming to 561 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: be very effective at this point. So I think perhaps 562 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: there would be room for that. But there could also 563 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: be streams as well, where we could approach, say a 564 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: kind of more qualified majority rule like they do in 565 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: the EU, where a certain number of countries have to 566 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: support a measure to for it to go through and 567 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: a certain kind of share of the overall EU population. 568 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: I would also, in this quite controversial move it either 569 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: being held every other year, or one year it's in 570 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: person and the next year it's virtual. Because I think hundreds, 571 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: if not thousands of people traveled to Charmle Shake and 572 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: one wonders what happens about all the emissions from those planes, 573 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: and maybe that funding could actually paid for those plane 574 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: tickets and hotels could actually be put more direct use 575 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: in terms of tackling climate change. Thank you very much 576 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: for joining today and for giving us just a little 577 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: bit of a status update on a number of different 578 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: things that were discussed over the course of CAP. Invariably 579 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: we could dig in quite a bit of detail on 580 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: any one of these, but thank you for giving your 581 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: perspective and for giving your three thumbs up and three 582 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: thumbs down. Thank you very much for having me always 583 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: happy to talk about cops. Today's episode of Switched On 584 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: was edited by Rex Warner of gray Stoke Media. Bloomberg 585 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: any F as a service provided by Bloomberg Finance LP 586 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: and its affiliates. This recording is not constitute, nor should 587 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: it be construed as investment advice, investment recommendations, or recommendation 588 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: as to an investment or other strategy. Bloomberg an e 589 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: F should not be considered as information sufficient upon which 590 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: to base an investment decision. Neither Bloomberg Finance LP nor 591 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty as 592 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: to the accuracy or completeness of the information contained in 593 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: this recording, and any liability of this recording is expressly 594 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: disclaimed