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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies.

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Speaker 2: Have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 2: and husbands, or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy,

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Speaker 2: zeph and best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Jamie, Kaylin, I just got the curse. What's that I'm bleeding?

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Speaker 1: I just got my period.

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Speaker 3: It's the curse.

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Speaker 4: I'm your little sister in the big old Wig. I'm pissed.

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Speaker 4: I'm pissed. I have to like, Hi, my, I know, Kaitlyn.

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Speaker 3: No, yeah, I don't worry. It's not contagious though.

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Speaker 4: This is the audio media. But I'm just all my

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Speaker 4: hairs in my face. I'm like, this sucks, This sucks.

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Speaker 4: How could you do this to me?

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Speaker 3: That was a great re enactment. I think, thank you

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Speaker 3: so much for a naturals for a natural Yeah, oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh. Well, anyway, this is the Bechdal Cast, and

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Speaker 3: my name is Caitlin Toronte.

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Speaker 4: My name's Jamie Loftus, and I have a tail.

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Speaker 5: And this is our podcast where we talk about your

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Speaker 5: favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel

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Speaker 5: test as a jumping off point for discussion.

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Speaker 4: But Kaitlyn, what the.

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Speaker 3: Hell is that? Oh my gosh, it's.

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Speaker 4: When what in the Ginger Snaps is that? I sort

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Speaker 4: of was like, why is this movie called that?

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Speaker 5: But in a way, Ginger snaps and it makes it's

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Speaker 5: actually kind of an incredible it's an all timer title.

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Speaker 3: It's actually really a good title.

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Speaker 4: It all makes sense. But what is the Bechdel Test?

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Speaker 3: It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,

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Speaker 3: sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test, as it was co

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Speaker 3: conceived of with Alison Bechdel and her friend Liz Wallace,

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Speaker 3: and it has many versions. Ours is this, do two

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Speaker 3: characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak

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Speaker 3: to each other? And is there conversation about something other

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Speaker 3: than a man? And we like it when it's a

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Speaker 3: narratively substantial conversation. So for example, I just got my

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Speaker 3: period and it's a horrible curse.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, let's kill this dog.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Like those are all narratively consequential in this world.

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Speaker 4: No need to worry about the Bechdel's house in this movie.

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Speaker 5: All right, that's the jumping off the boinfe But there's yeah,

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Speaker 5: so much more to talk about today, so I want

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Speaker 5: to just jump.

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Speaker 4: Right into it.

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Speaker 5: But this is again, I think we're just kind of

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Speaker 5: on an all timer streak recently of covering movies that

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Speaker 5: we've been getting requests for for.

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Speaker 4: Over half a decade, and we've just been.

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Speaker 5: Waiting for the right moment for the right guest, And

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Speaker 5: today we are covering Ginger Snaps with an amazing returning guest.

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Speaker 3: That's absolutely right. She is the cultural education coordinator for

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Speaker 3: Texas Native Health. She's a citizen of the Cat Donation

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Speaker 3: as well as a horror connoisseur. And you know her

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Speaker 3: from our episode on Smoke Signals. It's Olivia Woodward.

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Speaker 1: Hello, now we know.

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Speaker 4: We welcome back. What is your poster? I feel like

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Speaker 4: horror fans have the best bedroom walls.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny. This is not my bedroom.

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Speaker 1: Me and my partner are so progressive. We have separate

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Speaker 1: bedrooms and the recording stuff is in his area of

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Speaker 1: the house.

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Speaker 4: Incredible, So this is his room.

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Speaker 1: That is a poster. It's a metal poster.

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Speaker 4: If it's him, we don't care. Oh okay, unmort the

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Speaker 4: business of discussion, and you know that's so amazing.

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Speaker 5: That is truly my dream and because of like I

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Speaker 5: don't know, it says hetero programming.

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Speaker 4: I didn't even know. I'd never even considered that.

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Speaker 5: Until my friends got married and they're like, yeah, of

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Speaker 5: course we have our own rooms so that we still

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Speaker 5: love each other.

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Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, honestly, it kind of makes me love

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Speaker 1: him more having my own space. Yeah, it's really under

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Speaker 1: a full I'm also a crazy sleeper. I don't keep

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Speaker 1: a good sleep schedule. I always joke on a rotisserie

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Speaker 1: chicken in bed because I just kind of like move

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Speaker 1: around throughout my sleep. I wake up making the hungry

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Speaker 1: because I think I'm burning calories so much to my sleep.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, it really helps our relationship. Honestly, I think

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Speaker 1: it makes us closer. Being physically a distant.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, people need distance, people need boundaries and

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Speaker 3: their own space. I've been saying for years that if

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Speaker 3: I ever end up with a partner, which we'll see,

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Speaker 3: but if that were to ever happen, I would want

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Speaker 3: separate apartments. And I know that like who can afford that?

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Speaker 3: But also like but if you can, but you can, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 5: I mean it's like it's of course, it's like depends

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Speaker 5: on how you can make this face work. But it's

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Speaker 5: I like the idea of when you live with someone,

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Speaker 5: it is still a choice to be physically together, Like,

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Speaker 5: it's not the like, not necessarily the compulsory thing to do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you well.

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Speaker 4: And now Ginger Snaps.

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Speaker 5: Holy cow, what a damn movie, Ollivia, thank you for

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Speaker 5: being our guests. I know that we've been meaning to

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Speaker 5: do this for a while. It's the perfect time of year. Absolutely,

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Speaker 5: so tell us about your history with this movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a movie I've really enjoyed. It's definitely

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Speaker 1: near and dear to my heart as far as horror

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Speaker 1: movie goes, it's definitely one of my top five. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if y'all know this. This is a trilogy.

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Speaker 1: This is the first of three. There's Ginger Snaps. Ginger

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Speaker 1: Snaps Unleashed is the sequel, which takes place right after

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Speaker 1: the first one, like the next day, I think. And

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Speaker 1: then there's a third one. It's a prequel called Ginger

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Speaker 1: Snaps Back, and that one is set two hundred years

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Speaker 1: in the past, and like the eighteen hundreds, it's the

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Speaker 1: same actresses playing sisters again. I feel like there were

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Speaker 1: ancestors I'm assuming, and rather than being set in like

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Speaker 1: a Canadian suburb, it's set at a fort and they're

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Speaker 1: being like hunted by a wolf pack. And I bring

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Speaker 1: this up, I go into detail because back in what

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Speaker 1: twen twenty eleven, I was being left home alone a lot,

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Speaker 1: and the third one, the prequel, was being shown on

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Speaker 1: some cable like channel all the time. So I kind

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Speaker 1: of got weirdly obsessed with the third one for years,

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Speaker 1: not knowing there were two more before it. And I

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Speaker 1: was actually talking to my sister about this the other

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Speaker 1: day and I thought she told me about the first one.

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Speaker 1: She says, I told her about the first one, So

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Speaker 1: at some point, because she's also a horror connoisseur, this

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Speaker 1: is a huge thing we bond over either way. At

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Speaker 1: some point in high school I rented it from Red

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Speaker 1: Box and loved it and show it to all of

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Speaker 1: my friends. There aren't a ton of good were wolf movies,

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Speaker 1: because you know, there's horror, and then there's like all

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Speaker 1: the sub genres, right, and there's creature feature but separately

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Speaker 1: specifically were wolf. And this is not my most like

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Speaker 1: favorite werewolf design per se. Definitely other movies with scarier werewolves,

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Speaker 1: but the story itself is so unique and strange and

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Speaker 1: different from other Werewolf movies, and I come back to

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Speaker 1: it every couple of years. And then separately too. A

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Speaker 1: few years ago I decided to start screenwriting, and part

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Speaker 1: of that journey was joining a mentorship and so it

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Speaker 1: was online one with an organization called bipoc TV slash

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Speaker 1: film and they pair you with it. Turns out it

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Speaker 1: was a Canadian organization. I don't think I was supposed

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Speaker 1: to apply, but whatever. They pair you with a mentor

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Speaker 1: and you get like online coffee with them. And I

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Speaker 1: got paired with Karen Walton, who wrote this movie.

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Speaker 3: WHOA.

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Speaker 1: It was such a crazy coincidence.

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Speaker 4: Do not know that? That's amazing?

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Speaker 1: It was so hard not to fangirl over her. And

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Speaker 1: she's done some really cool work since Ginger Snaps, and

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Speaker 1: she gave me like really great advice and added me

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Speaker 1: to a Facebook group that she runs for up and

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Speaker 1: coming screenwriters. One day, someone put in the like a

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Speaker 1: post up asking about their favorite film podcast, and several

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Speaker 1: people commented the Bechdel Cast, and I was like, this

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Speaker 1: sounds right up my alley. And look at look at Roboto,

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Speaker 1: look at you.

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Speaker 3: Now you're here with us.

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Speaker 4: Wait, that's so oh.

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Speaker 5: I love that Ginger Snaps in a very roundabout way

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Speaker 5: brought you to the Ginger Snaps episode of this show.

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Speaker 4: That's so cool.

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Speaker 1: It's so cool. I would have never guessed it, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I'm very Ginger Snaps has really done a lot

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Speaker 1: for me apparently.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: True. So very excited to be here, very excited to

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Speaker 1: talk about it.

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Speaker 3: And not to brag, but you, to some degree, have

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Speaker 3: continued your screenwriting journey in a certain class top by

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Speaker 3: a certain someone who has a certain master's degree in

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Speaker 3: screenwriting from Boston University that I would never ever mention.

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Speaker 1: I gotta to say. The screenwriting classes are amazing, and

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Speaker 1: if y'all haven't picked it up, they're taught by Caitlin.

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Speaker 1: She's a fantastic teacher and I will continue to take

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Speaker 1: her classes whenever I can.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: So everyone should take her classes if you want to

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Speaker 1: be a screenwriter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 4: Well I didn't know you had a master's degree.

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Speaker 2: Oh well.

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Speaker 3: The thing is, I don't ever talk about it. I

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Speaker 3: never mentioned it.

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Speaker 4: Very humbul very humpful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, this episode is just a commercial for my

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Speaker 3: screenwriting classes. Bye, I love what a wonderful, full circle

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Speaker 3: history you have with this movie.

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Speaker 1: It's so cool.

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Speaker 5: It's always just like so lovely to hear when people

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Speaker 5: are active late, like successful people are actively involved in

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Speaker 5: mentoring and building community and stuff like that. Karen Walton, like,

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Speaker 5: just based on what I've read about her, it just

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Speaker 5: seems great. I'm glad to know that she also is

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Speaker 5: great and it's like, actually a cool person.

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Speaker 4: That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I still have her email and every once in

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Speaker 1: a while reach out and she's pretty good at getting

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Speaker 1: back and she's just a very very cool person. Also,

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Speaker 1: through her I learned some really major differences between the

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Speaker 1: film industry and Canada versus the US, good and bad.

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Speaker 1: But the way people get started with screenwriting in Canada

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Speaker 1: is fairly different than here in the United States. I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's another day though. That's like a forty

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Speaker 1: minute rant for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well, awesome, Jamie. What's your history with Ginger Snaps?

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Speaker 4: I had never seen this movie before.

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Speaker 3: I wish I had.

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Speaker 5: I wish that this movie had found me at the

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Speaker 5: exact right time, but I don't know. I was like,

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Speaker 5: I had an interesting experience watching this movie where I

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Speaker 5: watched it. I mean, this is my first time watching it.

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Speaker 5: I like horror, very into horror. I've never really taken

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Speaker 5: to wear wolf movies specifically, which might have been just

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Speaker 5: why I never happened to see this, because I.

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Speaker 4: Just I'm not a were wolf girly. I don't know

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Speaker 4: what to say.

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Speaker 5: But the first time I watched this movie, I like

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Speaker 5: sat with it for a day and I was like, WHOA, Like,

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Speaker 5: I don't. I almost like didn't know what to make

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Speaker 5: of it because there's so much going on.

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Speaker 4: I was like, did I like that? I do like

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Speaker 4: what it was like. It was a slow burn for me.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, it was weird.

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Speaker 5: And then I went back to rewatch it the second

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Speaker 5: time to prepare, and by the end, I was.

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Speaker 4: Like, no, this is like the coolest movie.

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Speaker 5: It's like it's I mean, it has its fault, it

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Speaker 5: has its tricky points, which we'll talk about, but I yeah,

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Speaker 5: it was a movie that I really had to kind

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Speaker 5: of sit with.

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Speaker 4: And once I watched it again, like a full two

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Speaker 4: days later, I was like, no, this fucking rules. I

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Speaker 4: can't wait to talk about this. I'm really excited to.

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Speaker 5: Hear everyone because it is like a movie that really

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Speaker 5: begs to be talked about with other people, and so

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Speaker 5: I am really excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 4: I feel like there's probably points of view I haven't considered.

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Speaker 5: I really enjoyed reading queer and trans writer's views on

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Speaker 5: this movie because, you know, like I think on my

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Speaker 5: first few I was like, it's all about defining womanhood

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Speaker 5: by periods.

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Speaker 4: But then reading other.

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Speaker 5: People's opinions on it, You're like, Okay, this movie is

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Speaker 5: like complex in a way that it maybe wasn't even

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Speaker 5: intending to be, but has like prompted all of this discussion,

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Speaker 5: and that's a special kind of movie.

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Speaker 4: I'm excited to talk about it. Caitlyn, had you seen

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Speaker 4: this movie before?

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Speaker 3: I had once before. It was during the Great Caitlin

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Speaker 3: Movie watching Binge of two thousand and four. I think

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Speaker 3: it was my friend who I mentioned recently on the

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Speaker 3: Job Breaker episode who had introduced me. She was a

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Speaker 3: big horror buff, so she showed me a bunch of

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Speaker 3: horror movies that I probably wouldn't have seen otherwise, and

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Speaker 3: I believe one of them was Ginger Snaps. I think

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Speaker 3: that's how I came to see this movie, and I

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Speaker 3: thought it was cool in the sense that it was

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Speaker 3: a version of the werewolf story unlike anything I had seen.

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Speaker 3: But I'm similarly not much of a werewolf person. I

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Speaker 3: far prefer vampires. Not that it's a competition, but I.

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Speaker 4: Was like almost on basic.

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Speaker 5: But I do like zombies and vampires and most of all,

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Speaker 5: I love a scary ghost and I.

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Speaker 4: Love the whatever the Babaduck is.

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Speaker 3: I like that. Yeah, the Bobbadok is its own genre.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's more like a hat based villain.

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Speaker 3: I love a jigsaw villain.

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Speaker 4: I love a jig saw, I love a little oh

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Speaker 4: I do it. Yeah, I'll haunt it.

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Speaker 1: Doll.

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Speaker 4: That's definitely in my.

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Speaker 5: Top four right right, right right. Every horror fan in

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Speaker 5: the world wants to They murder me right now. Like, Hi,

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Speaker 5: there's doll movie, there's scary dre there's Babaduk movie.

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Speaker 4: Yes, there's Babaduk genre. Doll genre.

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Speaker 3: I think vampires, but I almost have never like scared

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Speaker 3: by a vampire movie. For like horror that actually scares me.

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Speaker 3: The thing that I gravitate towards the most, I think

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Speaker 3: is like a cult type stuff or like Satan worship,

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Speaker 3: like and I'm sorry to invoke a movie made by

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Speaker 3: a horrible person, but like Rosemary's Baby is.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I thought you were gonna say, I'm sorry to

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Speaker 5: invoke Bielsa Bob.

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Speaker 4: Never mind, never.

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Speaker 1: Mind, we're making our own horror hooting right now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I'm with you there.

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Speaker 5: I also was realizing as I was watching, I'm like,

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Speaker 5: why have I been avoiding I've been avoiding werewolves recently,

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Speaker 5: and I know the reason is because my friend was

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Speaker 5: getting really into it. There's a very popular werewolf erotica genre.

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Speaker 5: Boy that my friend sent a recommendation to me, and

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Speaker 5: I'm down to try anything, you know. I was like, whatever,

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Speaker 5: I've read the occasional erotica brag. It's a very sophisticated

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Speaker 5: way to experience. It's like, also hard, I'm reading a book.

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Speaker 1: Just as reading intellectual.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's a fun way to whack off.

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Speaker 1: But I just really did I was.

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Speaker 4: Not vibing with the wearful genre.

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Speaker 5: It was actually quite freaking me out due to the

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Speaker 5: whole dog of it all.

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Speaker 4: So I did I'm going to call it that.

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Speaker 3: If you love this.

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Speaker 4: Genre, I'm not shaming you at all. I just it

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Speaker 4: wasn't for me.

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Speaker 5: I read a book called The Tyrant Alpha's Rejected Mate

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Speaker 5: which is so many words.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you've brought this up before.

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Speaker 5: I really struggled with the tyrant Alpha's rejected mate. It

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Speaker 5: took me months to finish. I didn't get horny one time,

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Speaker 5: but I was just like really.

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Speaker 4: Trying to finish it.

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Speaker 5: And so I think uniquely this year, I was like,

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Speaker 5: I'm done with werewolves for a while.

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Speaker 4: They're too a horny, there's too much going on. This

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Speaker 4: was recent, This was this year. Yeah, I read that

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Speaker 4: book this year. And if you've read it, and you,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I understand.

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Speaker 5: It's like it's always weird when you're like experiencing erotica

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Speaker 5: that is not for you, where you're like I get it,

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Speaker 5: I get it, I get it, but I but I'm

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Speaker 5: not feeling anything. So anyways, that's why I was avoiding

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Speaker 5: were Wolves. We could take this out of the show

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Speaker 5: if we want.

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Speaker 3: Now, I think we should leave it. And I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: add something to it really quick here, which is that

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Speaker 3: when I was in the UK on the Shrek Tannic tour,

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Speaker 3: I met up with a listener of the show shout

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Speaker 3: Out to Day's. We went to Shrek's Adventure together in

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Speaker 3: London and they gave me a horny book. What are

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Speaker 3: they called erotica novel? Yeah, erotica entitled Get in My

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Speaker 3: Swamp colon, an ogre love story, and I started reading it.

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Speaker 3: I have to finish it, but I think maybe you

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Speaker 3: would enjoy it a lot more than you enjoyed the

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Speaker 3: werewolf erotica.

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Speaker 1: I would wager, so I.

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Speaker 4: Would wait for so.

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Speaker 5: I just didn't like when they're like, let's fuck his dogs,

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Speaker 5: I'm like, I just don't want to read about dogs

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Speaker 5: fucking anyways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's some people's issue or not issue,

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Speaker 1: about why there aren't a ton of werewolf fans out there.

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Speaker 1: It's so close to beat reality, right, it like really

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Speaker 1: toes the line, which I think is what makes it

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Speaker 1: all so kind of like interesting and fascinating. Also, to

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Speaker 1: your credit, it is hard to find good werewolf movies.

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Speaker 1: I had the opposite, like two or three years ago.

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Speaker 1: I was like, sat down. I was like, I want

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Speaker 1: to watch every werewolf movie ever, right, because one of

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Speaker 1: my favorites is Ginger Snaps, and I do love an

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Speaker 1: American werewolf in London, and I spent like months and

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Speaker 1: a lot. Unfortunately they suffer from both not enough budget

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Speaker 1: to dedicate to the Werewolf Transformation and not enough budget

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Speaker 1: to get good actors, you know what I mean, Like

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Speaker 1: they can they can't. Really, a lot of them can't

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Speaker 1: balance both. The only other like really good werewolf movie

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Speaker 1: I would ever recommend, well, I mean I'd recommend several.

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Speaker 1: But the other big one aside from American Werewolf and

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Speaker 1: Ginger Snaps is one called Dog Soldiers, and that one's

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Speaker 1: closer to action horror than American Werewolf or Ginger Snaps.

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Speaker 1: I feel like Ginger Snaps American Werewolf are very layered

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Speaker 1: and have a lot to say about the topics that

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Speaker 1: they're covering because they're very different topics, right. American Werewolf

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Speaker 1: interprets werewolf ism in a very different way than Ginger

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Speaker 1: Snaps does. But Dog Soldiers is like good fun. It

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Speaker 1: almost feels like watching like action romp. There's just werewolves

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Speaker 1: thrown in there and then you're in like the background.

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Speaker 1: The backdrop is Scotland. But it's again one of the

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Speaker 1: few that had a good enough budget to like. The

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Speaker 1: Werewolf Transformation is cool. The werewolves are scary.

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Speaker 3: Wait I've seen this movie. Yeah, now that I'm looking

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Speaker 3: at the images of it.

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Speaker 1: During my Werewolf kick, it was the only one that

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Speaker 1: stuck out to me. I was like, huh, this was

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Speaker 1: pretty good, and I rewatched it recently just to make

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Speaker 1: sure my opinion was right, you know, because you watched

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Speaker 1: something the first time enamored, and then you watch the

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Speaker 1: second time you're like, oh no, that one of dog

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Speaker 1: soldiers does take a really bizarre misogynistic turn at the end,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like some scenes got edited out that

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Speaker 1: maybe would have explained it. But aside from that, it's

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Speaker 1: a fun were wolf movie, but it's a hard genre

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Speaker 1: to I think, pull off successfully. And then on a

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Speaker 1: personal note, Twilight kind of ruined my life with were

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Speaker 1: wolves because everyone started associating werewolves and animalism with native

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Speaker 1: people and the amount of like questions like God, and

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Speaker 1: the amount of people like that. I feel like the

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Speaker 1: type of racism I face increased after the movies. In particular,

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Speaker 1: the book's release was hard enough, and then the movies

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Speaker 1: just like took it over the edge. So I feel

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Speaker 1: like Werewolves has also just not gotten good p R

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. Yeah, so I totally

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Speaker 1: get not being into were wolves or werewolf movies.

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Speaker 3: It's a hard one for sure.

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Speaker 5: Want to recover Twilight we absolutely, because there's I like,

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Speaker 5: there's so much we didn't talk about or even know

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Speaker 5: to talk about the first time we talked about it.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean, they're just werewolves in general.

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Speaker 1: There are a tough cell.

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Speaker 5: I think that's an excellent point to make too, is

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Speaker 5: that the most recent popular adaptation of werewolf stories was

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Speaker 5: done in an incredibly racist and harmful way. And unless

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Speaker 5: I'm missing something, there really hasn't been a popular piece

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Speaker 5: of werewolf media since.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm coming in so called I'm coming in

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Speaker 4: at like werewolf bar.

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Speaker 5: Mitzvah, Like that's where I'm at with werewolf media.

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Speaker 3: Spooky scary boys becoming men, men becoming wolves.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, well, it's not going to get

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Speaker 4: better than this, you know.

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Speaker 3: I like the werewolves in what we do in the Shadows,

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Speaker 3: and that's kind of it. I would say, Yeah, any way,

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Speaker 3: a quick brain and then we'll come back and recap

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Speaker 3: the movie. And we're back and here is the recap.

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Speaker 3: Although first I will place content warning for things like suicide,

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Speaker 3: sexual assault, animal abuse, and graphic violence toward dogs.

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Speaker 4: It really is kind of a you name it of

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Speaker 4: is a lot of stuper warnings.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I will say before we start, just because I've got.

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Speaker 4: Werewolf ber mitzvah on the brain. It is kind of

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Speaker 4: like relevant the narrative of wear Wolf.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like girls.

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Speaker 5: Becoming women, women becoming wolves. That is kind of the

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Speaker 5: theme of Ginger snaps.

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Speaker 3: That's sort of the log line.

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Speaker 5: Like a werewolf bot mitzmore Wow, wonderful observation makes you thank.

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Speaker 4: You, thank you. That's all those are. That will be

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Speaker 4: all my contributions for the day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, fine, fun, Okay. So we open on the town

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Speaker 3: of Bailey Downs, Canada Ever heard of it? A place

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Speaker 3: that is being terrorized by vicious attacks from some unknown

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Speaker 3: animal that people are calling the Beast of Bailey Downs.

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Speaker 3: We then meet two teen sisters who are like goth

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Speaker 3: not esthetically but like attitude wise in the sense that

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Speaker 3: they're obsessed with death and they have a suicide packed

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Speaker 3: since they've been kids. This is Bridget played by Emily

438
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 3: Perkins and Ginger played by Catherine Isabelle.

439
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 5: It's so interesting because I feel like when we meet them,

440
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 5: I interpreted them originally as at first glance as like

441
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 5: goth in the hot topics sense, and then it's like

442
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 5: they you yes, but also there's.

443
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 3: More going on right, Okay. So at school, Ginger and

444
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 3: Bridget are in gym class, playing field hockey, and Bridget

445
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 3: says a bunch of mean things about this popular girl,

446
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 3: Trina Sinclair, the.

447
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 5: Most popular girl name of all time, Yes, Terrina.

448
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 3: And she overhears Bridget talking shit about her, and so

449
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 3: she pushes Bridget down into the carcass of another dismembered

450
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 3: dog that has been attacked by the beast of Bailey Downs.

451
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 3: And it really makes you wonder why there's just this

452
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 3: dog carcass in the middle of a playing field at

453
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 3: a school, just out in the open, has not been

454
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: cleaned up, and.

455
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 4: No one has an appropriate reaction to it.

456
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 3: I watched this movie so many times and every time

457
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 3: I get to that part, I'm like, this just you

458
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 3: would smell it, right, Yeah, for sure, I know it's

459
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 3: Canada and cold, but it's not that cold like you

460
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 3: would notice it before you face plan it to it.

461
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: Like that part never makes it.

462
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 5: We had to have been cut there, right, Because I've

463
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 5: rewatched that.

464
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 4: Seen so many times, I'm like, I'm missing something. I'm

465
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 4: missing something.

466
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: How didn't know?

467
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 4: And see the open dog?

468
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 3: I think it's just a goof it works whatever Ginger

469
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 3: and Bridget form a plan to get back at Trina

470
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 3: by making it seem like her dog has been attacked

471
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 3: by the beast. Meanwhile, there's this boy who has been

472
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: ogling Ginger. This is Jason, who to me looks so

473
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 3: much like Justin Trudeau. And then I found out that

474
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 3: this was a Canadian movie, and I was like, is

475
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 3: that secretly a young Justin Trudeau?

476
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 4: Interesting?

477
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: No, I see it, I totally see it. Maybe they're

478
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: like long distant cousins. I think did anything about that? Wow?

479
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 4: Wow.

480
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 3: Anyway, he approaches Ginger and asks her out, but she's like,

481
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 3: ooh no, because she's above the idea of like being

482
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 3: a teen girl who likes and dates boys. That's too

483
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: like normcore for her. So at home, Ginger and Bridget

484
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 3: have dinner with their mom and dad, who are like

485
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: very speaking of norm coore, very much so compared to

486
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 3: their daughter's like emo gothiness. Ginger complains about back pain,

487
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: and their mom is like, maybe you're finally getting cramps.

488
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 3: Maybe you're finally getting your period, because apparently these two sisters,

489
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 3: as their mom describes it, are three years late getting

490
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 3: their period. They're fifteen and sixteen, Like you know the

491
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 3: age ranges for when people start menstruating, but their mom

492
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 3: feels like they should have gotten their periods by now.

493
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, which is like, I mean, we'll talk about the

494
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 5: mom a lot because I was sort of surprise at

495
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 5: where her story landed. Yeah, yeah, in a more positive

496
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 5: way than I was expecting, because I feel like we

497
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 5: just covered Jawbreaker, which one of my like criticisms of

498
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 5: that was that the adults were so like underthought that

499
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 5: it was unclear like the world that we were really in.

500
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 5: It was interesting because I do feel like there's it's

501
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 5: like an over the top especially for people who meant

502
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 5: straight like I was a super late bloomer and it

503
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 5: came up in the family, which is mortifying. I don't know,

504
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 5: I felt seen by that.

505
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 3: Sure.

506
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love Pam of all movie horror movie moms.

507
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: She always has like a very special place of my heart.

508
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: She's so like loyal and again, we'll talk about her

509
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: more later, but I just every time I watched this movie,

510
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm like justice for Pam.

511
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 4: Also, I feel like there's a lot of like great.

512
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 5: Of the time passion in this movie, but I feel

513
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 5: like Pam kind of takes it.

514
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: She really does she's got the.

515
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 4: Embroidered shirts of like others nightmares.

516
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: And like her little pumpkin ear rings.

517
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, we're little poofball ear rings. And her hair

518
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: scrunches and the hair.

519
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,239
Speaker 4: Great performance. Yeah, she's just a mom who's constantly like

520
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 4: isn't that fun?

521
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's great. She's played by Mimi Rogers. Mimi Rogers. Okay,

522
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 3: so the sisters go out that night to execute their

523
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 3: plan with Trina's dog, but they come upon an already

524
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 3: mulled dog at a playground and they're like, oh, well,

525
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 3: we'll just use this. But before they can do anything

526
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: with it, Ginger gets her period and says, I just

527
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 3: got the curse. Funniest Bechdel test passing exchange in the

528
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: movie for me, Yeah, because then Bridget says, oh, and

529
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 3: then Ginger says, it's not contagious anyway.

530
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: It's a great exchange.

531
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 5: Yeah. And then she's like, if you ever hear me

532
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 5: like griping around a tampon machine, frigging kill me. I

533
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 5: was like, yeah, just you wait, just you wait.

534
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

535
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 3: Okay, so maybe because she's gotten her period and there's

536
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: blood now, but the beast attacks Ginger like pops out

537
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 3: of the woods, drags her back into the woods. Bridget

538
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: goes after her. There's a whole scuffle with this beast

539
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 3: and it chases them onto the road, but then gets

540
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 3: hit by a van and killed, allowing the girls to escape.

541
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: The driver of the van is this weed dealer guy

542
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: named Sam who we've met before because the popular girl

543
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: Trina seems to have some kind of history with him.

544
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 5: The Sam character, I just feel like he wants to

545
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 5: be Christian Slaters so bad.

546
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I see that.

547
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

548
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 5: I feel like there's a whole slate of kind of

549
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 5: like bruneout style character actors that come out in the

550
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 5: nineties into the two thousands that are just doing a

551
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 5: really solid Christian Slater. In Heather's impression, a slate of

552
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 5: Slater wanna be a slate of Slaters, one could say, yeah,

553
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 5: a real bunch of mister Robots.

554
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 3: So okay, the girl's hurry back home. Ginger has sustained

555
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 3: some pretty serious injuries from this beast attack. She's got

556
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: these big gashes on her shoulder and she doesn't want

557
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 3: anyone to know about this, and she's somehow already healing,

558
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 3: but she's not feeling great, which could either be period

559
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 3: cramps or the fact that she's turning into a werewolf

560
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 3: question mark because Bridget had managed to take a polaroid

561
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 3: of the during the scuffle, and it's not super clear,

562
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: but it looks like it might be a were wolf.

563
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: So then Bridget approaches Sam to be like, hey, what

564
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 3: did you hit with your van the other night? And

565
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: he's like, I don't know a were wolf and she's like, hmm, interesting,

566
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: that's what I think too. And then Trina comes up

567
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 3: with her dog and it starts barking at Ginger on

568
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: account of her now being a were wolf, so she

569
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: kicks the dog horrible seemed to watch and runs into

570
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 3: the bathroom and they discover fur growing out of the

571
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: gashes in her shoulder. Period. Blood is like gushing out

572
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 3: of her and snarly. Bridget's like, yeah, I'm pretty sure

573
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 3: you're a were wolf, and Ginger's like, that's ridiculous. Were

574
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: Wolves aren't.

575
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 5: Real, and being a were wolf gives you awesome highlights too. Yes, yeah,

576
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 5: I loved the werewolf highlights. Great touch.

577
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved the gradualness of her clause too. I

578
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: clocked it more this time around, because every time I

579
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: was like, oh man, her nails look so good, and

580
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: then I like, look closer, I'm like, nope, those are claws.

581
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: I thought that was a very interesting This also, too,

582
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: is one of the few werewolf movies where it's not

583
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: a sudden transformation, which again we can talk about later,

584
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: but I can't really think of any others that imply

585
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: once you turn, that's you twenty four to seven. And

586
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: I feel like that's what this werewolf.

587
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: Movie implies, right, yeah, yeah, with her transformation, you're just

588
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: like extra were wolfy on the full moon, but the

589
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 3: rest of the time you're like just kind of were wolfe.

590
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 5: I saw like a lot written about that in like

591
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 5: a positive way, where it was like this, like, werewolf

592
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 5: movies are so often beheld to moon cycles, which are

593
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 5: very similar to menstrual cycles, and the fact that this

594
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 5: movie doesn't fully lean into that is like kind of

595
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 5: a strength because that.

596
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 4: Would be the super obvious thing to do.

597
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 5: And I feel like it makes Ginger's emotion journey like

598
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 5: slowing it down does make it scarier.

599
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely, because you're like, is she changing because of her

600
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: puberty or is it because of the werewolf virus? And

601
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: I think that's a relatable experience as a young person

602
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: having all of her friends have crazy hormones all the time,

603
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: you know, So I.

604
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 5: Love that choice and seeing her like really struggle with

605
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 5: it too and be unsure about how she feels about

606
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 5: the changes that are happening in her, Like it's it's great.

607
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

608
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 3: So the sisters get into an argument. Ginger thinks Bridget

609
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 3: is jealous because Gingers growing up into a woman and

610
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 3: Bridget still isn't. So they have this fight, and at school,

611
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: Ginger is now wearing like form fitting clothing. People are

612
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: noticing her and being like a wooga. She's making out

613
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:02,479
Speaker 3: with that Jason guy and ignoring Bridget. Meanwhile, Bridget starts

614
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: researching werewolves. She's also tracking Ginger's menstrual cycle and it

615
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 3: seems like her next period might start.

616
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: On the full moon.

617
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: She also discovers that Ginger is growing a tail, and

618
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 3: she links back up with Sam. Bridget does so that

619
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 3: they can figure out what to do about this whole

620
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: werewolf thing, and Sam speculates there might be a cure.

621
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 3: Side note, this is like not super narratively consequential, but

622
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 3: like at first, Bridget tells Sam that it's her who's

623
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 3: affected by this to like protect Ginger, yah. But by

624
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: the end he figures it out.

625
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 5: Which made me confused at first because I have one

626
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 5: brain cell. I was like, wait, what what outsmarted by

627
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 5: a teenager yet again?

628
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: But anyway, he gives Bridget an earring made of pure

629
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 3: silver because he's like, maybe it'll purify your blood and

630
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 3: like rid it of this infection. In the meantime, has

631
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 3: sex with Jason and kind of like chomps on him

632
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 3: a bit, although she doesn't kill him, but she does

633
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: kill a neighbor's dog, Norman the Dog, and that's very sad.

634
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 4: I know, the King, I love the goalie.

635
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 3: The goalie I know, oh yeah, and he's like Norman.

636
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 4: He's like Norman norm a hockey representation.

637
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 5: That's like you're like, oh yeah, the movie takes place

638
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 5: in Canada because he's just like playing hockey by myself

639
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 5: at home. Classic between that and the stories, Oh my god, yeah,

640
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 5: every time she was sorry, Okay, I didn't realize I

641
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 5: forgot that it was a Canadian film until a while

642
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 5: into the movie and then someone says sorry and I'm like,

643
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 5: oh my god, they're in Canada. It honestly is so

644
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 5: wild seeing a teenage This is a very American observation,

645
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 5: but like seeing a teenager in crisis with a Canadian

646
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 5: twang outside of the was truly shocking to me.

647
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 4: I was like, wait, when are they gonna go see Drake?

648
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 4: You know, but that's not how this movie goes.

649
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, Okay. So Ginger and Bridget kind of make up,

650
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: and Ginger confides in Bridget that she has this insatiable

651
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 3: hunger and wants to tear everything into pieces.

652
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 4: She might be snapping.

653
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 3: One could say she's on the brink. She's a snap

654
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 3: is impending saying.

655
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, snap impending is That's that's sort of my status

656
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 5: of take very I will say the seed.

657
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 1: Where she's like throwing up and talking about I tried

658
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: to look at my nose if I wrote down their quote.

659
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 1: But any goth horror girl, that's like the favorite quote

660
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: of I thought I was craving sex, but I want

661
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: to tear everything to fucking pieces. That is one of

662
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 1: my favorite It's just because I feel like too, especially

663
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: by two thousand, you know, girlhood teenage girl rage was

664
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: so rarely explored, especially in the manner that this film

665
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: explores it. So that is one of my favorite lines

666
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 1: in the whole movie.

667
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was the line where I was I turned

668
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 5: to my boyfriend, I was like, this movie was I

669
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 5: guarantee very popular on Tumblr That line alone, likely this

670
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 5: movie did numbers on Tumblr.

671
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: In the future.

672
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: Okay, So then Bridget has the idea to pierce Ginger's

673
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 3: belly button and put in the silver earring in case

674
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 3: that cures the werewolf ism. But it doesn't seem to

675
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 3: do anything, and her tail by this point has grown

676
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 3: so much that they have to tape it to her leg,

677
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 3: so the werewolfights is getting worse. Then there's another field

678
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 3: hockey gym class fight with Trina scene there's at least

679
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 3: to it in the movie, where Ginger beats the shit

680
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 3: out of Trina, so they're still feuding. Meanwhile, Jason is

681
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: pissing blood and turning into a were wolf as well.

682
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: It's stated that he and Ginger had unprotected sex and

683
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 3: she passed along this because the movie treats the like

684
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 3: werewolf ism as a disease, like it's an infection that

685
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 3: can be passed on through sex. So he's becoming a

686
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 3: werewolf now. Ginger and Bridget then go to Sam's greenhouse,

687
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: where he grows all of his weed.

688
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: And lives there. By the way, he lives at the Greenhouse.

689
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 3: And get ready, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yep. He tells

690
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 3: them about an herb called Monk's Hood and how it

691
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 3: could be a cure, but it's a perennial and it

692
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 3: only grows in the springtime and it seems like it oh,

693
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 3: it's like fall. It's like Halloween time right now, So

694
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: this doesn't really help them. And Ginger, let's say her

695
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 3: snap is closer than ever before. One night, Trina, the

696
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 3: mean girl, comes over to confront the sisters about like

697
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 3: taking her dog, and Ginger attacks Trina, who trips and

698
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 3: hits her head and dies right when the sister's parents

699
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 3: come home. So they do this like clever cover up

700
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 3: and then they bury Trina in the yard and make

701
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 3: a plan to just like run away after they're sure

702
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: no one suspects them of killing Trina. Meanwhile, Jason is

703
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: becoming more were WOLFI he has this like intense rash

704
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 3: on his face, his teeth are getting sharper, he's growing

705
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 3: a tail.

706
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 5: This is silly, but I was looking up the actor

707
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 5: who played Jason, and he plays another character named Jason

708
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,479
Speaker 5: in Final Destination three.

709
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 4: My favorite. He's the boyfriend that actually dies on the

710
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 4: roller coaster at the beginning.

711
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, he's barely in it. But also

712
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: the wee guy is also in Final Destination three. We

713
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: really he plays the goffy guy who like gets squished

714
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: by the giant sign. It's the same act.

715
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 4: Oh my god, wait with the other Canadian actor who

716
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 4: was on Instant Star. I remember that. Wow.

717
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 5: They literally just were like, oh, can we get the

718
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 5: guys from Ginger Snaps?

719
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 3: Are they available?

720
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 4: But yes, yes, can they play the same character. Also, yeah,

721
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 4: that's so funny. Oh yeah, there he is Ian. I

722
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 4: remember him. I remember him.

723
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 5: He's It's so hard because that movie is like Mary,

724
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 5: Elizabeth Winstead, Ryan Merriman and others.

725
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I do also like Final Destination three. As far

726
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: as sequels, I actually really enjoy the whole series. A

727
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: Final Destination I think it rocks, except for the weird

728
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: I think it's the fourth one where it's like a

729
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 1: racetrack one that one blows. It's not fun, it sucks.

730
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: There's like a weird racism storyline that doesn't work very well. No,

731
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 1: but the rest of them I think are super fun

732
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: and scary, and I'll watch anything. Tony Todd is in,

733
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: especially if he's representing death between that and Candy Man.

734
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: But but battle the two three is definitely one of

735
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: the one of the funner ones.

736
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 3: I think that's my favorite scene.

737
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, and the nail gun one because I

738
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: also work in a scene shop for a long time now.

739
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: Of course, with all the deaths, that is so extremely unlikely,

740
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 1: but it's not impossible.

741
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 5: And that is where Final Destination succeeds every time. The

742
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 5: tanning Beth said in Final Destination three is the one

743
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 5: I think about the most.

744
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, all the time, all the time.

745
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 3: Oh she yeah, brutal Okay. So Bridget realizes that her

746
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: mom has bought a bunch of dried monkshood, the herb

747
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 3: that could potentially be the cure they're looking for, from

748
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 3: a craft shop classic Pam. This is just in time

749
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 3: because Ginger is really on the verge of a nervous

750
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 3: snap down, we'll say, And Bridget locks Ginger in the

751
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 3: bathroom so that she can't hurt anyone, and Bridget takes

752
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 3: the monks hood to Sam to make the cure and

753
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 3: they craft this like injectable version of it. But when

754
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: Bridget goes home to administer it, Ginger is not there.

755
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 3: She has broken out of the bathroom, gone to school,

756
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: and she kills the school guidance counselor. Meanwhile, Bridget runs

757
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 3: into Jason, who is even more were wolfy, and I

758
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 3: would say he's having a adjacent snap ad.

759
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 4: Jason snaps that as fun.

760
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: A little scarier too sometimes with his Then yeah, I mean,

761
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: we're along with Ginger for the ride, and she's been

762
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: shown to be cool, but his happen is like also

763
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: like familiar too in a way that's uncomfortable. Like I've

764
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: been around teen boys who without the werewolf ism act

765
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: like right, you know, So his character was written a

766
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: little too well in some aspects.

767
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like boys and men are socialized to

768
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 3: be overly aggressive in many contexts.

769
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: And girls will cure them.

770
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: Right, Because what happens is Bridget injects him with the

771
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 3: cure and it seems to work pretty instantly, so we're like, okay,

772
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 3: the cure works. So then Bridget finds Ginger and she's like, okay,

773
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 3: we'll just clean up the body of this dead guidance

774
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 3: counselor and then we're gonna run away. And by now

775
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 3: Ginger is looking quite wolfy. She's still like humanish but

776
00:42:55,200 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 3: also wolfish, and she's pretty evil now. She doesn't seem

777
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 3: to have as much remorse as she once did. I

778
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 3: would say it's safe to say that Ginger has snapped

779
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 3: at this point, because she attacks and kills the school

780
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 3: custodian for pretty much no reason, and she tries to

781
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 3: convince Bridget to become a werewolf like her, and Bridget refuses,

782
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 3: so Ginger storms off and approaches Sam, attempts to seduce,

783
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 3: slash assault him, and then Bridget comes in to save

784
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 3: him by cutting her hand and exchanging blood with Ginger

785
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 3: so that Bridget will get infected with werewolf ititis and

786
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,959
Speaker 3: that'll kind of distract Ginger. So Bridget and Sam take

787
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: Ginger back home to make more of the cure, but

788
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 3: by now Ginger is like full werewolf and Bridget is

789
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 3: also turning into a were wolf because of this like

790
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 3: blood exchange thing, and Ginger is just kind of running

791
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 3: around the house on the loose, and Sam and Bridget

792
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 3: are making the next cure, but then Ginger wolf grabs

793
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 3: Sam and bites the shit out of him. Bridget finds

794
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: them and starts eating Sam's blood, but realizes, like I

795
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 3: can't do this. I can't. I refuse to embrace where

796
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 3: wolf culture. So she and Ginger have like the big

797
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 3: final showdown. They're chasing each other. Ginger lunges at Bridget,

798
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 3: who stabs and kills Ginger, and so Bridget is very

799
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: sad that her you know, beloved sister is dead. And

800
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 3: that's how the movie ends. So let's take a quick

801
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 3: break and will come back to discuss and we're back.

802
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 4: Boy, are we where to begin?

803
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 5: I also, I just want to talk about the ending

804
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 5: really quick. Where the ending may be so sad?

805
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: I know it's a bummer. Yeah, every time I watch

806
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: it it makes me so sad. But also it just

807
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,439
Speaker 1: there was no personally, no other ending to be had.

808
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: Ginger was too far gone right. And I also thought

809
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: it was interesting too because they're so death obsessed this

810
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: entire movie, and but this situation, this virus, this scenario

811
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: proved that, especially for Birdwate, she did not want death.

812
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: She was never she did not want to die with

813
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 1: her sister. So it's a very like layered and almost

814
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: makes it more.

815
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 3: Sad too, you know.

816
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, the more I thought about it, the sadder it.

817
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 5: Made me because on the second feeling, I also noticed that,

818
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 5: you know, it almost seems that Ginger chooses death because

819
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 5: Bridget is holding the syringe. Also she's holding the cure,

820
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 5: and she's holding the knife, and Ginger lunges onto the

821
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 5: knife because, like you're saying, Olivia, I think Ginger almost

822
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 5: recognizes that she is too far gone and that it

823
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 5: gives her sister the best chance to survive if she's

824
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 5: not there, which is like Shakespeare and it's really brutal.

825
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 5: And I'm trying to remember I don't have the citation

826
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 5: in front of me, but I read an interpretation of

827
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 5: this movie that speaks to what you're saying, that how

828
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 5: they are so death obsessed in the way that I

829
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 5: think a lot of young people are in a world

830
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 5: where it still is a more nebulous concept.

831
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 4: We don't really know that they've had.

832
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 5: First person interactions or brushes with death really, And I

833
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 5: mean I know that I was like that as a kid,

834
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 5: where you know if you're unhappy, and it's kind of

835
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 5: a more like a morbid nebulous concept.

836
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 4: It's almost I found it easier to interact with than

837
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 4: I do now. But I read sort of Ginger's character.

838
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 5: Of being a meditation on suicidality in young people, where

839
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 5: it's revealed, you know, as time goes on that Bridget

840
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 5: is sort of interacting with the concept out of curiosity

841
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 5: and Ginger may not be.

842
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 4: Because we see Ginger makes an attempt on.

843
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 5: Her own life in the you know space of the movie,

844
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 5: and that, you know, it's sort of implied that while

845
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 5: their parents care about them, they're not an adequate support

846
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 5: system for you know, kid who's depressed. That wasn't necessarily

847
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 5: my read of it, but I thought it was interesting

848
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 5: and that, I mean, it's certainly a valid read of

849
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 5: that character dynamic.

850
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I've watched this several times. I think each

851
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: time I get really enamored with the special effects with

852
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: you know, dissent to werewolf ism. But this time I

853
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: really focused in on the relationship between Bridget and Ginger.

854
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: And I have a sister and I'm very close with her,

855
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: but our relationship is not like this where we're so

856
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: co dependent and at some point their relationship becomes extremely

857
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: toxic and abusive. And so because in the very beginning,

858
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: Ginger says, well, Bridget, this whole death thing was your

859
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: idea when you were eight years old. So I think

860
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: that speaks to Bridget's curiosity with it, but because Ginger

861
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: is so dependent on Bridget, it morphed into both of

862
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: them being obsessed with it. Yeah, so I agree with

863
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: thinking being really sad.

864
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it also just went away. I wasn't expecting

865
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 5: to where I don't know. I think we just again,

866
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 5: I'm going to call back to a jobbreaker because we

867
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 5: just talked about it yesterday. But how you know, when

868
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 5: Sam is introduced, you're like, oh my god, is this

869
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 5: going to be like deis ex boyfriend like we see

870
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 5: so frequently in movies, And it's not exactly that because

871
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 5: it's not a romantic relationship and he dies at the end,

872
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 5: like I feel like most movies would have him, you know, like,

873
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 5: and it's almost like you're set up to have that

874
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 5: expectation where you know, Sam's like, I'm gonna go out there,

875
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I've got this blah blah blah, and then

876
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 5: he's like instantly dead and you're like, yeah, yeah, that

877
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 5: actually makes more sense. And I didn't dislike that character,

878
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 5: but I don't know, I expected him to live. So

879
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 5: the fact that he did die, I was kind of surprised,

880
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 5: and I was surprised that Ginger dies. I mean, it's

881
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 5: just like, like it went this really really tragic way

882
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 5: that I did not see it going. But I agree

883
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 5: Olivia that, like how else could it end? Once you

884
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 5: see that ending, once you embrace the beast exactly, their

885
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 5: relationship was fascinating. I mean, like there are like little

886
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 5: elements too that I'm guessing are coming from Karen Walton

887
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 5: of just like specific kind of like oldhood things, but

888
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 5: I mean applies across the gender spectrum. But like if

889
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 5: you're like I remember when my older cousins hit puberty before.

890
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 4: Me, and just the instant feeling of being left behind

891
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 4: and the instant feeling that they had changed, And then

892
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 4: the same experience for my cousins who are younger than me,

893
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 4: all of a sudden feeling like they're kids.

894
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 5: And I'm at, like, look, they don't get you know.

895
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 5: And I mean, I think, like Emily Perkins gives such

896
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 5: a great performance in this movie too, if like she's like,

897
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 5: I don't know far in the way the performance of

898
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 5: the movie for me, but you can instantly feel how

899
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 5: like disorienting and hurtful it is when her sister is

900
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 5: not you know, when they're not peers in quite the

901
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 5: same way or that, like there's a change in their

902
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 5: bodies that makes it I don't know, like I get

903
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 5: that feeling of disoriented and.

904
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: Also a bit of betrayal too, especially when you go

905
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: from them kind of rejecting being a girl. Right, they

906
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to be the opposite, but they definitely

907
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: reject girlhood because everything is well, that's curly. If I

908
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: complain about tampons blah blah blah, and then also not

909
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: wanting to hook up with guys at that age, transitioning

910
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 1: from having no romantic interest to a romantic interest and

911
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: your friend, your sister hating it before you, it feels

912
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: like a betrayal almost, And you read that so well

913
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: in Bridget. She's a very relatable character, and I think

914
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: she's written pretty well too.

915
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

916
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 3: I love when she goes, you're doing drugs with boys? Now? Yes, Oh,

917
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 3: it's like because this movie, I guess, I mean, this

918
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 3: is like emblematic of the time, but like weed was

919
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 3: considered like, oh my god, drugs, this person is dealing weed.

920
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 5: And yeah, like the age of like because I got

921
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 5: high like that, you know, early odds.

922
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: One of my favorite Bridget lines I wrote down is

923
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: when her and Ginger are fighting and and Ginger is

924
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: becoming hairy puberty wearalism, who knows why? And she says,

925
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 1: at least I'm not hemorrhaging and hairy, and I don't

926
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: know that's just I was like, wow, that would hit

927
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: me so deep at that age.

928
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 4: You know it's hilarious now, right it?

929
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: But I thought that was so funny.

930
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 5: My favorite Ginger read in the movie is like when

931
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 5: she's like making out with Jason or whatever, she's she's

932
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 5: doing her thing and Richid goes Ginger a word and she.

933
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 4: Goes, is it sorry? And I was like oooh, just

934
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 4: like such a teenage interaction.

935
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 3: Well, another thing I find really interesting about this dynamic

936
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 3: the Again, because sisters are so rarely explored in movies,

937
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 3: you get so few examples of interesting sister dynamics. One

938
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 3: thing that I thought was presented compellingly about this movie

939
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 3: is the like power dynamic also between the and like

940
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 3: the imbalance of power, where like Ginger because she's slightly older,

941
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 3: because she reaches puberty first or gets her period first,

942
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 3: because she is more I suppose, sought after by like

943
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 3: boys at this school, and she has more like social status.

944
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 5: Which is a different kind of like unspoken pain that

945
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 5: can exist between sisters or friends or whatever. Like sure,

946
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 5: navigating that sucks.

947
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,760
Speaker 3: Especially because a lot of people will look at Bridget

948
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 3: and be like, what a little dweeby weirdo, but her

949
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 3: sister's hot, So like right, there's all these things that

950
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 3: are informing this imbalance of power, which, like Ginger exploits

951
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 3: more and more throughout the movie, you know, after she

952
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 3: becomes a werewolf, but even before where she's like doing

953
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 3: very like sisterly manipulative things to Bridget, and I don't know,

954
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 3: it just it felt like a familiar thing to me

955
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 3: that you again don't often see in movies. So yeah,

956
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 3: I just like I'm like, wow, this was written by

957
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 3: someone who understands sisters.

958
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 5: And like cares about it, because yeah, I mean, and

959
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 5: it is cathartic and cool to I don't know, I

960
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 5: feel like it like speaks to how well written it

961
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 5: is that by the end, it is like really cathartic

962
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 5: to see Bridget stand up to Ginger and be like

963
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 5: you cannot control me, you cannot like make me do

964
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 5: like bend to your will. But even that doesn't make

965
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 5: us hate Ginger, which I feel like is really hard

966
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 5: to do that the fact that even when Ginger, I mean,

967
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 5: she is a full on monster by the end, she's

968
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 5: horrible and like so little of herself remains, but you

969
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 5: still are very invested and it's still horrible seeing her

970
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 5: die because of how connected you know they are and

971
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 5: how it's going to affect Bridget and yeah, I don't know.

972
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 5: And then anyone who's been through puberty is just like,

973
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 5: oh no, yes, it's the time in puberty where your

974
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 5: brain just isn't in your body anymore and you have

975
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 5: to let your sisters stab you to death.

976
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 3: I do have a lot of thoughts about the movie,

977
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 3: likening certain evil things like being a werewolf to certain

978
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 3: other things that I don't feel aged very well about

979
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 3: this movie. I'll get to that in a moment, but

980
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: I did want to first just share a few quotes

981
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 3: from the press kit of this movie just that will

982
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 3: kind of add some context as far as like the

983
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 3: development of the story. So, this movie was directed by

984
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 3: a man named John Fawcett. It was written by a

985
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 3: woman again, Karen Walton shout out, and then the story

986
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 3: they both have story by credits, so they conceived of

987
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 3: the story together, it seems, and then Karen wrote the script.

988
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, they work together a lot, I think.

989
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:08,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. John Fawcett is like the person behind Orphan Black,

990
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 3: Is that right?

991
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 4: Yes?

992
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think they both work. She was an

993
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: executive producer on Some quite a few episodes and she

994
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: wrote a few episodes too.

995
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, which I never watched that show, but I've never

996
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 4: heard a bad word about. I know people love it.

997
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 3: I've seen I think season one, and then I forgot

998
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 3: to keep watching very classic Caitlin behavior.

999
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 5: And then I know that she also wrote on Queerisfolk

1000
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:31,919
Speaker 5: and read on a lot of that TV.

1001
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:33,879
Speaker 4: Karen Walton did so.

1002
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 3: Anyway from the press kit of this movie quote. In

1003
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 3: January of nineteen ninety five, John Fawcett approached screenwriter Karen

1004
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 3: Walton with a premis for a screenplay. As Fawcett tells it,

1005
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 3: I knew that I wanted to make a metamorphosis movie

1006
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 3: and a horror film. I also knew that I wanted

1007
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 3: to work with girls. That's basically how it all started.

1008
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 3: Walton recalls, John and I talked a lot about working together.

1009
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 3: We just had to try and find and idea that

1010
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 3: appealed to us. Both Initially, I didn't want to get

1011
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 3: involved in writing a horror movie at all. I generally

1012
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 3: find them very disappointing as stories and pretty predictable and

1013
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 3: frustrating in terms of the depiction of females. However, conversations

1014
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 3: with Fawcett led Walton to realize that it was a

1015
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 3: genre ripe for reinterpretation. Ginger snaps presented an opportunity to

1016
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 3: make something sophisticated, to create real characters with real problems,

1017
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 3: characters that are human beings whose struggles are based on relationships.

1018
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 3: I found the horror element in the nightmare of trying

1019
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 3: to figure out who you are and who it is

1020
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 3: that you love that was attractive to me. The opportunity

1021
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 3: to put a twist on the subject matter, explains Walton.

1022
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 3: Right from the start, we wanted to make a movie

1023
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 3: that would entertain. So yeah, I feel like in at

1024
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 3: least again the relationship with the sisters and that being

1025
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 3: a huge focus of the movie, and that being an

1026
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 3: aspect that I think works very well, and again like

1027
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 3: a reinterpretation of the werewolf subgenre.

1028
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: Well and before so this is a two thousand movie, yes,

1029
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 1: and before this werewolf was so masculine, right, masculine, animalistic.

1030
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: I think really the only depiction of women with werewolfism

1031
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: before was The Howling, But even then it leaned more

1032
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: into like sexy werewolf versus what being a woman and

1033
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: being a were wolf. And then there's another movie called

1034
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: The Company of Wolves that's a little similar to Ginger

1035
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,439
Speaker 1: Snaps and that it's kind of an exploration of growing up, right,

1036
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: but it's not. It's more Alice in Wonderland type of

1037
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: interpretation of growing up versus this very brutal version of

1038
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: of growing up. So this was a very for two thousand,

1039
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: a unique opportunity to lend werewolfsm to specifically female puberty.

1040
00:58:58,840 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 2: Right.

1041
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 5: One of the things I had a really hard time

1042
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 5: with on the first viewing of this movie that felt

1043
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 5: immediately very dated was the likening of womanhood strictly to menstruation.

1044
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 4: And while obviously there's a.

1045
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 5: Ton of women who do menstrate, that that's not a

1046
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 5: universal experience. So in that way, I was like, I

1047
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 5: don't know how to feel about that. I have since

1048
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 5: looked into you know, there are I'm going to share

1049
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 5: some of it in a bit, but there was a

1050
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 5: trans analysis of Ginger Snaps that really embraces the movie

1051
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 5: and is like, yes, it is very you know, prescriptive

1052
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 5: in how it presents coming of age as a woman,

1053
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 5: But there is a lot to love if you are

1054
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 5: looking for a transread of the movie. Here's what I

1055
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 5: connected to as a young person. And I still think that,

1056
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 5: like it works in the bloody sense and in the

1057
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 5: sense that puberty is horrific regardless of who you are,

1058
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 5: and it's painful and it's confusing, and your brain doesn't

1059
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 5: work anymore and your hairy, and it's scary and all

1060
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 5: your friends are being weird poetry.

1061
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1062
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just start snapping, ginger snapping, and start ginger snapping.

1063
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 5: But that that did stick out to me as a potentially,

1064
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 5: like kind of overly prescriptive thing.

1065
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 4: What if we think about that watching the movie in

1066
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four.

1067
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 3: I feel that. And I also feel that because the

1068
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 3: movie like pretty intrinsically ties menstruation with becoming a werewolf,

1069
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 3: because like Ginger becomes a werewolf the same day she

1070
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 3: gets her period, and her cycle seems linked up with

1071
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 3: the full moon, like the cycle of werewolf dumb. I

1072
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 3: was like, okay, because of the history of like people

1073
01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 3: with uterses and people who men straight being like shonned

1074
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 3: from their communities for that, and like you know these

1075
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 3: dark ages, patriarchal standards that would like put menstruating people

1076
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 3: like cast them away while they were menstruating, and that

1077
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 3: there's so much shame attached still to this day to menstruating,

1078
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 3: and people who mensrate are conditioned to think like, oh,

1079
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 3: keep this a secret, and.

1080
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, don't talk about it, don't complain about it, right,

1081
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 5: and it's killing you.

1082
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 3: Which the day that I did my first watch of

1083
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 3: this movie, and this is perhaps TMI, but I am

1084
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 3: trying to normalize like talking about uterus stuff, talking about menstruation.

1085
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 3: I talk to like my cisman friends all the time

1086
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 3: about my period because I'm just like they need to

1087
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 3: hear this and they need to understand what the fuck

1088
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 3: is happening. Yeah, But the same day that I did

1089
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 3: my first watch of this movie, I had an IUD

1090
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 3: inserted because my periods are so painful and I've been

1091
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 3: on this like ongoing journey of just like how can

1092
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 3: I not have periods anymore? So with that like personal experience,

1093
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, I do get to some degree that

1094
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 3: there could and maybe should be like horror movies and

1095
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 3: body horror movies about menstruation, because like it can be

1096
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 3: a very horrific experience, to the fact that I'm like,

1097
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 3: when can I have a hysterectomy so I don't have

1098
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 3: to deal with this anymore? It is like ruining my life.

1099
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 3: But because there's all this history with shame surrounding menstruation

1100
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 3: and then like likening that to this evil hunger in

1101
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 3: you of where wolf is, I don't know. I'm kind

1102
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 3: of all over the place with how I feel about it.

1103
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 3: What I feel more certain that I don't like is

1104
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 3: the movie also likening being an evil were wolf to

1105
01:02:56,520 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 3: contracting an SDI. Yeah, that's the problem I think I

1106
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 3: have with the movie. But it's sort of all over

1107
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 3: the place.

1108
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 5: This movie is doing a lot, and I say that

1109
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 5: in appraising way, Like I think it is like horror

1110
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 5: movies are the best place to do a lot. It's

1111
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 5: the best place to like explore themes like shame and

1112
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 5: fear and you know, all this amazing stuff. I think that, Yeah,

1113
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 5: where the like werewolf metaphor diverted in certain points I

1114
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 5: thought got a little bit muddled and was like because

1115
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 5: they were trying to do and because they were doing

1116
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 5: so much the metaphor was representing like three or four

1117
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 5: different things at certain points. Yeah, and some of the

1118
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 5: angles worked for me, The puberty angle works for me,

1119
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 5: you know. But the STI think felt very dated and

1120
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 5: shamey and just like sort of extended to a shame

1121
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 5: around sex, the conflation of assaults, and like a lot

1122
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 5: of the like sex base metaphors really kind of fell

1123
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 5: flat for me and were uncomfortable to watch in the future.

1124
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 4: I don't know, Olivia, what do you what do you

1125
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 4: make of it? As a longtime fan, I got a

1126
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 4: lot of.

1127
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 1: Thoughts, so I can understand the criticism and being uncomfortable

1128
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: with the likening werewolf ism, especially to girl female puberty.

1129
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to say female specifically as a sex

1130
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: term like female male, not as a gender term, just

1131
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: to be very clear. I will say though, part of

1132
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: what I think why this movie has such a cult

1133
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: following is because we are shamed for our periods. And

1134
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: the read I got from this movie was the power

1135
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: in puberty. And that's how like I think, because I

1136
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 1: totally understand I'll star interpretation. As you were talking, it

1137
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that is you know, upsetting, But for

1138
01:04:56,200 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 1: me watching and also just how clinically minstruation was talked about.

1139
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: To me, the other characters, the mom, the nurse, there

1140
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 1: was no shame in them talking about puberty and about periods,

1141
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: and it feels like, even though the girls are grossed

1142
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: out by it, the movie itself is not necessarily shaming.

1143
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 3: In my opinion, I tend to agree, yeah.

1144
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, the trope of the werewoll virus as an STD.

1145
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: That has got a comment because not only do I

1146
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: watch a lot of horror movies, I watch a lot

1147
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: of horror shows with monsters, with vampires, with everything, and

1148
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: I have never explored the negativity of that. It's just

1149
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: always been what it is. And part of that too,

1150
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: is like turning into these monsters usually means implying losing

1151
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: your soul at the same time, which is how they're

1152
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: able to do these horrific acts like sexual assault without remorse.

1153
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: So I agree with also Jamie that the movie is

1154
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: using the metaphor of verbalism a little timity directions. It's

1155
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: a lot to take it, so I don't know if

1156
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: I'm necessarily against using the monsterness as an STD. My

1157
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: interpretation was also the emphasis on just using protection during

1158
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: sex too. That's Also, this movie is somewhat felt like

1159
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 1: an ad for safe sex as well, and I ever

1160
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: wrote down too, I was like, this is more comprehensive

1161
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: about menstruation than most public schools. Again though I think

1162
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 1: that's because they're in Canada.

1163
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 4: God, but I don't know.

1164
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 5: Never forget the abortion episode of Degrassi they were not

1165
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 5: allowed to show in the States.

1166
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 4: Yep, my cousin and I had to buy a pirated

1167
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:51,479
Speaker 4: DVD off of eBay after we stole my aunt's credit card.

1168
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 3: Wow, beautiful story. For me, the problem is with how

1169
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 3: historically STIs have been similar to menstruation shamed, and so

1170
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 3: much stigma and shame is attached to having an STI.

1171
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 3: That to Liken like getting infected with some horrible monsterism

1172
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 3: and becoming this soul is demon being beast likening that

1173
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 3: to having an STI and because of the context, so

1174
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 3: much shame is attached to having an STI. That's where

1175
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 3: therein lies the problem for me.

1176
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 5: I was leaning toward that read as well, and it

1177
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 5: is like this movie is so tricky because there are

1178
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 5: so many ways to see it. Where I was trying

1179
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 5: to imagine how I would feel about like internalized shame

1180
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 5: about periods. If I saw this movie when I was

1181
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 5: like fifteen, and I really don't think it would have

1182
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 5: made me feel ashamed. I think it would have been like,

1183
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 5: I think, more just like a super like teenager.

1184
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 4: Yes, like you know.

1185
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 5: Cathartic, like first of all, seeing menstruation represented on screen,

1186
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 5: and I think Olivia, like you were saying earlier, as

1187
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 5: it being something that makes you, yes, unstable, but also

1188
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 5: extremely powerful, and like seeing it not presented in the

1189
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 5: way that you ordinarily see menstruation presented as something that

1190
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 5: makes you like fall into these real hysterical tropes.

1191
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 4: And because we're like with these characters.

1192
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 5: It's like, I agree with you read Caitlin, and I

1193
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 5: also like, I don't know, it's so easy to like.

1194
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 5: I feel like I keep going back and forth on

1195
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 5: how to feel about it, and it does feel like

1196
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 5: a movie that really depends on like the individual, because

1197
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 5: it doesn't feel like it's trying to shame you about it.

1198
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 5: And I thought it was interesting how the different views

1199
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 5: in the way that menstruation's presented. I think like one

1200
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,760
Speaker 5: of the things that does really well is like the

1201
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 5: very like so.

1202
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 4: Yes, your body's going to gush and it's going to hurt.

1203
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 5: Like that sort of presented at school and at home

1204
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 5: of like it's okay, it's all good, it's actually awesome,

1205
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 5: and like that to me like represented the internalized shame.

1206
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 5: I mean, they're not ashamed of it necessarily because they

1207
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 5: are talking about it, but they're not talking about it honestly.

1208
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 5: And I feel like, you know, the werewolf narrative is

1209
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 5: closer to talking about it honestly, is like brutal and confusing.

1210
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 4: And bucked up blah blah blah.

1211
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 5: And but yeah, I don't know the STI I think

1212
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,759
Speaker 5: I just wish that it was maybe even talked about

1213
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 5: a little differently, because it did feel like there was

1214
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 5: some shamey language attributed to it. Yeah, and then outside

1215
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 5: of that, yeah, I think with regards to sex, I

1216
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 5: mean it's weird because there's like lines that in isolation

1217
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 5: you're like, oh, that's kind of cool, where you know,

1218
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 5: Ginger is talking about the first time she's had sex

1219
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 5: and we'll talk about what that actually means, but like

1220
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,639
Speaker 5: that she's like, oh, it was like kind of disappointing, and.

1221
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:04,679
Speaker 3: Like I loved that little monologue. I wrote it down

1222
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 3: and I'm like, exactly.

1223
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 5: Right, Like that's like a very cathartic thing for uh yeah,

1224
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 5: having sex with his men. It's often disappointing, and I

1225
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 5: really like, I liked that line and that monologue, but

1226
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 5: she's responding to she assaulted Jason and Jason while in isolation.

1227
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 5: In those scenes where he's very aggressive and really like

1228
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 5: acting out in the sort of the typical pubuscan teenage

1229
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 5: boy way of just like irrational anger directed at women,

1230
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 5: often he becomes a villain without taking into consideration the

1231
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 5: fact that he was assaulted into this predicament in the

1232
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 5: first place, which I don't know if it is the

1233
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 5: time it's being written in. It just felt like the

1234
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 5: we know that it's not right that Ginger did that,

1235
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,680
Speaker 5: but I just that's sat weird with me.

1236
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's it's a rape scene that is not

1237
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 3: framed as being a rape scene because I think, in

1238
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 3: part because it's a woman being the aggressor and a

1239
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 3: man as a victim, and that is so rarely, especially

1240
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 3: at this time, would that have been even considered rape

1241
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 3: or assault because the roles are quote unquote reversed.

1242
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: I have one final thought about the STI that I

1243
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 1: took known on, and again I think the reason because

1244
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: I agree with all of your reads, and that has

1245
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 1: actually made me think differently about it. However, the only

1246
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to say is that before this movie,

1247
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: both in horror and just like regular movie and TV shows,

1248
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 1: whenever teenagers have sex, it's always the girl that suffers consequences,

1249
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:45,080
Speaker 1: whether it's being pregnant or the social aspect of being

1250
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:47,640
Speaker 1: labeled a slut or whatever. This is one of the

1251
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 1: few times that a boy suffers actual consequences from sex now,

1252
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: and I'm just saying that's a good or bad thing.

1253
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: That's just an observation I made this time. And I

1254
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 1: think if I were to guess that was the purpose

1255
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,280
Speaker 1: of it being presented as STI was to subvert the

1256
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: trope of boys suffering no consequences when they have sex.

1257
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:11,559
Speaker 1: I don't agree with it, but I think that for me,

1258
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 1: I think that was maybe the point of it, maybe

1259
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 1: the intention.

1260
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like that if there were some adjustments,

1261
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 5: it would like have scanned clear, because you do you see

1262
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 5: Jason struggle with what happened to him. I mean, he

1263
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 5: was like assaulted by Ginger, and then you see him

1264
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 5: do I think what he thinks he's supposed to do,

1265
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 5: which is go to the other guys and be like, yeah,

1266
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 5: that like she like rocked my world or like whatever

1267
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 5: weird data slang he us is to describe sex. But

1268
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 5: you can tell he's really upset by it, but he's

1269
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 5: acting in the way he's supposed to it, and that

1270
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 5: feels very intentional, and then you see it's fucked him

1271
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:54,679
Speaker 5: up irrevocably, and in one way, I appreciate that this

1272
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 5: movie has basically no empathy for men whatsoever except for

1273
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 5: Sam occasion, but Jason's character. I was like, yeah, I

1274
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 5: mean I hear what you're saying, Olivia, and I think

1275
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:07,760
Speaker 5: that that makes a lot of sense in a landscape

1276
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 5: where this would never be considered, because like centering, and

1277
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 5: that was like an interesting part of researching. The production

1278
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 5: of this movie was really I mean, it was up

1279
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 5: and down, but in general, Emily Perkins has talked a

1280
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 5: lot about it, and from the beginning was like out

1281
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 5: there saying like this is a feminist horror movie, like

1282
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 5: there are not.

1283
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 4: A lot of movies like it. It's like it's very

1284
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:31,600
Speaker 4: important to me.

1285
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 5: And I was talking about the onset experience as like

1286
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 5: the two male leads kind of being weirded out at first,

1287
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:43,679
Speaker 5: because they never participated in a project where men hadn't

1288
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,719
Speaker 5: been centered. And it took like a couple of days

1289
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 5: for the two lead actresses to like kind of not

1290
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 5: like lay down the law, but like be like, this.

1291
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 4: Is our movie. It's about the stars of the movie.

1292
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 4: And they were like, you know, and.

1293
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 5: It seems like the relationships between the actors were fine,

1294
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 5: but they were just like they were kind of thrown

1295
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 5: for a loop, which like really speaks to the nineteen

1296
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 5: ninety nine of it. All other stuff I was finding

1297
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 5: was unfortunately the difficult part of production that I found.

1298
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 5: And this isn't something that the actor who plays Ginger,

1299
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,640
Speaker 5: Catherine Isabel, like looks back on as like something that

1300
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 5: was particularly scarring, but she.

1301
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:24,680
Speaker 4: Didn't mention it in interviews.

1302
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:27,559
Speaker 5: Was that particularly in that rape scene because she was

1303
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 5: seventeen when she was playing that part and there was

1304
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 5: no intimacy coordinator. She said that she was like she

1305
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 5: hadn't had sex before at that time and was like

1306
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 5: pretty confused about like what she was supposed to be doing.

1307
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 4: She was uncomfortable.

1308
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 5: She like took a shot of cinnamon whiskey before because

1309
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 5: she was so nervous and like, I don't know very

1310
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 5: like dated. I feel like you hear stories like that

1311
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 5: on in d sets, but it always just I don't know,

1312
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 5: if you can't afford an intimacy coordinator, maybe way, maybe

1313
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 5: wait to make your movie if you want to make

1314
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:04,439
Speaker 5: a rape scene that is perpetrated by a teenager.

1315
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there's so many levels of concerning things happening there.

1316
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1317
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 3: Also, I mean, I don't know how common practice it

1318
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:21,560
Speaker 3: even was twenty five years ago to have intimacy coordinators.

1319
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 5: I don't think it like even until like the last

1320
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,479
Speaker 5: ten years it was popular. Yeah, I mean, so that's

1321
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 5: not like, I mean, I don't mean to like specifically

1322
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 5: call out this movie, but especially because it was an

1323
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 5: underage actor, like that's yeah, that's challenging.

1324
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

1325
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 4: The other thing that I just thought was worth mentioning.

1326
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 5: It's not a criticism of the movie, but just to

1327
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 5: like set this in time, was that this movie was

1328
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 5: a flop at the box office, which is ridiculous. It's

1329
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:51,680
Speaker 5: an awesome movie, but they also had a lot of

1330
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,760
Speaker 5: difficulty getting it made in the first place. Because this

1331
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 5: movie was being went into production around the time that

1332
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 5: the Columbine shooting happened, and so I found a Guardian

1333
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 5: interview from a couple of years ago that sort of

1334
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:11,400
Speaker 5: contextualizes the culture that this was coming into. So this

1335
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:15,439
Speaker 5: comes from John Fawcett. He says we were prepping for

1336
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 5: Ginger Snaps the same year as the Columbine shooting. There

1337
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 5: was a lot of focus in the media on how

1338
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,679
Speaker 5: movies made kids violent, and the idea of a bloody

1339
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 5: film set in a high school didn't go down too

1340
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:27,320
Speaker 5: well with casting directors in Canada. Some of them joined

1341
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 5: forces to boycott our film, and the National Post ran

1342
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,000
Speaker 5: an article on it. All the schools we asked turned

1343
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:35,640
Speaker 5: us down, but luckily another film production had just a

1344
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 5: set of three tiny school highways that we could shoot on.

1345
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 5: We sent Scarlett Johanson a script to see if she

1346
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 5: was interested in Bridget, but her mother had read the

1347
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 5: National Post article and didn't want her daughter involved. So

1348
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 5: I feel like this also intersects with a lot of

1349
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 5: satanic panic stuff and like kind of the tail end.

1350
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:54,879
Speaker 4: Of that period.

1351
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 5: And also it was just wild to think about young

1352
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 5: Scarlett Johansson in this movie.

1353
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 1: That's crazy. I can't imagine. Isabel does such a good job,

1354
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 1: and she's also kind of gone on to be a

1355
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: kind of a horror Royalty. She's in a lot of

1356
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 1: other horror movies and she does a fantastic job on them.

1357
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 1: But yeah, it is very interesting to think of Scarlett

1358
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:19,080
Speaker 1: Johansson in this role. Actually, recently, sorry, totally going off

1359
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 1: the track, I recently rewatched eight like it freaks. I

1360
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 1: don't know why I was. She is in it. It's

1361
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 1: again a very young Scarlet Johansson, and she is hilarious

1362
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 1: in it. Her character is mostly like fighting off her

1363
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:35,559
Speaker 1: boyfriend and she tases him and the genitals at some

1364
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 1: point because he won't take Noah's an answer. It is

1365
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 1: a much funnier film than I was expecting it to be.

1366
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 4: Damn.

1367
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:43,680
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I've never seen it.

1368
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 1: It's interesting. The CTI holds up pretty well too. But anyway,

1369
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 1: it's interesting to think of Scarlett Johansson turning into a werewolf.

1370
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:57,480
Speaker 1: I want to get back to the weird sexual politics

1371
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:00,760
Speaker 1: of the movie, because they do really feel all over

1372
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 1: the place to me, where maybe it would have worked

1373
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 1: a lot better for me if her becoming a werewolf

1374
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 1: coincides with her men'st writing for the first time, and

1375
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: then that also coincides with like she's embracing and being

1376
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 1: empowered by her sexuality like she perhaps didn't before, because

1377
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 1: we do see that to some extent where she seems

1378
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 1: even though she describes like I thought I was really

1379
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 1: hungry for sex, but I just want to eat dogs

1380
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: or whatever. But you also see her be something that

1381
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:42,520
Speaker 1: you could interpret as like sexually liberated and embracing her sexuality,

1382
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 1: and she's doing it in a way that is often

1383
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 1: assaulting people because similar to the scene with Jason, she

1384
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:55,799
Speaker 1: also assaults Sam because we see neither of them consent

1385
01:18:56,040 --> 01:19:00,759
Speaker 1: to it. We see neither Jason nor Sam. They're saying no, oh, stop,

1386
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 1: like don't do that, all this stuff, and she's like

1387
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 1: powering past them saying no. But with Sam, he like

1388
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:13,960
Speaker 1: pushes her off of him, and his not giving consent

1389
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:17,840
Speaker 1: is like respected by the movie, where I don't know

1390
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 1: whereas like it's treated differently with Jason.

1391
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 5: Because it's like we're just supposed to think Jason is bad,

1392
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 5: so if something horrific happens to him, it doesn't matter,

1393
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 5: which is like, I don't I would be really surprised

1394
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 5: if that scene was interpreted in the same way today, right.

1395
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:38,680
Speaker 3: But Sam is also bad because we learn and this

1396
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 3: kind of blink and you miss it almost because like

1397
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 3: we're meant to feel empathetic toward him because he's helping

1398
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 3: the sisters out with this werewolf problem, and it's not

1399
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,479
Speaker 3: even though he's reluctantly helping them out, because I feel

1400
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 3: like generally you would see a male character who is

1401
01:19:56,520 --> 01:20:00,680
Speaker 3: helping women or girls do so very really reluctantly, but

1402
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 3: he's like approaching them and being like, let's figure this out,

1403
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:07,799
Speaker 3: let's find the cure. And Yeah. Then there's a scene

1404
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:13,559
Speaker 3: between Trina and Bridget where Trina tells her because Trina's like,

1405
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 3: she thinks like maybe Sam and Bridget are dating, and

1406
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,760
Speaker 3: she seems jealous of it at first, but then she

1407
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:25,120
Speaker 3: confides in Bridget that Sam I think. She calls him

1408
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 3: a cherry chaser, meaning he only goes after virgins, and

1409
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 3: basically implies that Trina had sex with him, like lost

1410
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:37,280
Speaker 3: her virginity to him, and then he cast her aside

1411
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 3: and she feels awful about it.

1412
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:42,679
Speaker 5: We do see that scene where she tries to talk

1413
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:44,160
Speaker 5: to him and he ignores her.

1414
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 3: He's very dismissive. Yeah, for sure. So you find this

1415
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 3: out about Sam, so then when he dies, you're like,

1416
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 3: good riddance, But it's weird that that isn't I guess

1417
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 3: called more attention to or that that.

1418
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:01,680
Speaker 1: So I read that similar to Jennifer's Body. Also, I

1419
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:05,280
Speaker 1: did write down our quote Ginger snapped, so Jennifer could

1420
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: body Jennifer's body, like really, I mean, obviously this was

1421
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:14,640
Speaker 1: a small Canadian hit, but it was definitely a precursor

1422
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 1: to a Jennifer's Body movie. I interpreted that similar to

1423
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 1: Jennifer's Body, and that there are many instances throughout the movie,

1424
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 1: even at the very beginning when Bridget is getting a

1425
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 1: little bit of attention from the janitor and he is

1426
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 1: so clearly just wanting to help her, there's no other pretense.

1427
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:34,599
Speaker 1: But then Ginger comes up and says, he's staring down

1428
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 1: your shirt. We as the audience know that wasn't happening

1429
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 1: at all, and Ginger herself more than likely knows that

1430
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 1: wasn't happening. But because of their codependency and because of

1431
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: her jealousy and almost obsessiveness with their sisters sisterhood, anything

1432
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 1: Bridget has, Ginger has to have. So that's how I

1433
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:58,599
Speaker 1: interpreted this, particularly the Sam assault, is that because Sam

1434
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:03,479
Speaker 1: was giving Bridget a ten, then that means Ginger had

1435
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,439
Speaker 1: to have his attention, even though I don't think she

1436
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 1: even wanted to sleep with him. I think at that

1437
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:11,639
Speaker 1: point she really just wanted to rip him apart. I

1438
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:14,120
Speaker 1: think too, the way that his was respected more is

1439
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 1: because he was older technically, and there is some authority

1440
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:20,720
Speaker 1: with being older. I don't really know, but I'm with

1441
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:22,680
Speaker 1: you on that one. The reactions to it, to the

1442
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 1: handling of both was.

1443
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 5: Interesting, especially because I mean otherwise, like, if we're supposed

1444
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 5: to empathize with Sam more so than Jason, I mean,

1445
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 5: it still doesn't make you Jason being assaulted, right, but

1446
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:37,240
Speaker 5: why go out of the way to tell us that

1447
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 5: Sam is kind of a scumbag if that's the case.

1448
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:44,080
Speaker 5: I think what was interesting this connects to Karen Walton

1449
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 5: quote is like, I think we are as the audience

1450
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 5: because it's sort of because, like Ginger keeps saying it

1451
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 5: that we're like supposed to maybe be perceiving some sort

1452
01:22:55,080 --> 01:23:00,320
Speaker 5: of romance between Sam and Bridget because they are boy

1453
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:02,720
Speaker 5: and girl hanging out and that's how that goes in

1454
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 5: these movies. But I do think it's interesting that they

1455
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 5: like that does not go anywhere, and there was an

1456
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 5: interview done with Karen Walton a couple of years ago

1457
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 5: in Bloody Disgusting by Tatiana Tenrero, who just out and

1458
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:20,600
Speaker 5: out asks many queer fans consider a Bridget to be

1459
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:22,439
Speaker 5: a queer heroine? Do you think of her as a

1460
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 5: character who is queer? And Karen Walton replies, you know

1461
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:28,599
Speaker 5: what's funny that question I've been asked before, but really

1462
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 5: in the last few years people have started asking me

1463
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,400
Speaker 5: that again. Stories have changed and the way you're reading

1464
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:36,320
Speaker 5: that character has evolved. I always like to say about Bridget, however,

1465
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:39,200
Speaker 5: you imagine her life after this movie as absolutely true.

1466
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:41,720
Speaker 5: I don't want to overdescribe what people could in their

1467
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:43,920
Speaker 5: hearts put on her, but I definitely don't think she

1468
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:48,800
Speaker 5: was the straightest individual. She's probably a little queer. Probably,

1469
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 5: I mean, she's so far from thinking about who she

1470
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 5: would date at that point in her life, or like

1471
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,280
Speaker 5: wanting to be with or being in love. It's just

1472
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 5: not happened for her yet. I suppose I wouldn't say

1473
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,800
Speaker 5: it isn't possible that she's queer. Excellent basive answer by

1474
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 5: Karen Walton. But I mean again, I think that a

1475
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 5: movie I would like less probably a movie written by

1476
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:12,120
Speaker 5: a man perceiving teenage girls. And again, just keeping in

1477
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 5: mind that we just covered Jawbreaker, would default to like,

1478
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:19,439
Speaker 5: let's make this relationship explicitly romantic. That will introduce conflict

1479
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:22,799
Speaker 5: between Ginger and Bridget. But I think what is more interesting,

1480
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 5: even though it does lead to some problematic places, is

1481
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:29,679
Speaker 5: not that a relationship is actually happening, but that Ginger

1482
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:33,240
Speaker 5: perceives a relationship as happening and retaliates anyways.

1483
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,080
Speaker 4: And it's not like Bridget is like, do I choose

1484
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 4: my sister or my boyfriend? Like She's always going to

1485
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 4: choose Ginger, no doubt about it.

1486
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:44,320
Speaker 5: But it's how Ginger reacts to her sister just I mean,

1487
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 5: really just like forming a relationship outside of theirs that

1488
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,679
Speaker 5: I feel like causes her to retaliate in this really

1489
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 5: violent way.

1490
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 4: It's just a more interesting choice.

1491
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:57,639
Speaker 1: Yeah. I kept calling him weed guy in my notes

1492
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 1: because I could not remember. Also, their relationship was barely

1493
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 1: between Sam and Bridget, barely platonic to be honest.

1494
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 3: They weren't like hanging out as friends, right, yeah.

1495
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 4: Pretty utilitarian?

1496
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 1: Right. Utilitarian is such an excellent word, and I couldn't

1497
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 1: find it because in my notes, I was like, because

1498
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 1: I also like to read comic books and I like

1499
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:18,880
Speaker 1: superhero movies, and it feels like there's a fun trope

1500
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:22,080
Speaker 1: sometimes in those where it's two superheroes who don't like

1501
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: each other really but they have to work together. And

1502
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: that's what Sam and Bridget felt to me. Like Bridget

1503
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: thinks he's older and gross and doesn't want to be

1504
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:34,880
Speaker 1: around him at all, And it's so clear Sam sees

1505
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,679
Speaker 1: her as a child and is treating her as such.

1506
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,760
Speaker 1: So and it's not even like a brother sister relationship either.

1507
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:45,120
Speaker 1: So it's a very unique dynamic that is I feel

1508
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 1: really seen of like a utilitarian made up outside of

1509
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,760
Speaker 1: the comic book superhero genre.

1510
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 5: Because he's he's useful to the extent that he has

1511
01:25:56,520 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 5: weed knowledge, like he just that is his funk.

1512
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:02,679
Speaker 3: He knows about herbs.

1513
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:04,479
Speaker 1: He has needles apparently, right.

1514
01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:09,400
Speaker 3: He's got drug paraphernalia or wolf Spain, yeah, wolf hood

1515
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:14,280
Speaker 3: or whatever it's called. Yeah. I wanted to give a

1516
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:19,719
Speaker 3: quick shout out to Ginger, acknowledging that they probably won't

1517
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 3: get caught for this at least, you know, pre a

1518
01:26:23,479 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 3: few other of Ginger's murders. But there's a point. It's

1519
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:29,839
Speaker 3: like right after Trina has died, and it's basically Ginger's fault,

1520
01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:33,920
Speaker 3: where Ginger's like, you know, no one ever thinks chicks

1521
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 3: do stuff like this. Girls can be a slut bitch

1522
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 3: teas or the virgin next door parentheses, but no one

1523
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:45,599
Speaker 3: will expect us of being murderers. And then she says,

1524
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:49,040
Speaker 3: we'll just coast on the way the world works, aka,

1525
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:52,720
Speaker 3: like the double standards and the sexism and they you know,

1526
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 3: gendered assumptions people make about women.

1527
01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:59,760
Speaker 1: And that felt very parallel to a moment later on

1528
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 1: when the mom discovers the body and rather than turn

1529
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:08,080
Speaker 1: her daughters in, you know, she's gonna ride or die

1530
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:10,719
Speaker 1: and burn the house down with the dad and apparently

1531
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:12,120
Speaker 1: kill her husband.

1532
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:16,240
Speaker 3: Pam, Yeah, she's like, I don't give a shit about dad.

1533
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:20,559
Speaker 1: Parallels with that moment because you know, you see Bridget

1534
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:23,800
Speaker 1: finally have sympathy for Pam and she says, it's not

1535
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 1: your fault, None of this is your fault. And Pam says, well,

1536
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:28,720
Speaker 1: the world will say it is. Everyone will say it's

1537
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:32,120
Speaker 1: my fault. And I felt like you just can't escape

1538
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:37,640
Speaker 1: that sexism, whether it's in girlhood, teenagehood, or adulthood. And

1539
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,400
Speaker 1: I just I really liked those two moments, especially being

1540
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 1: thirty minutes after each other pretty much.

1541
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:46,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I agree that because I was getting like

1542
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:48,960
Speaker 5: Pam is like a great comic relief character. She's such

1543
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:53,519
Speaker 5: an exaggerated like who is genuinely doing her best, but

1544
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:56,000
Speaker 5: is doing what she thinks she's supposed to do instead

1545
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 5: of actually listening to her kids, right, which is a

1546
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:02,040
Speaker 5: lot of parents, and there is there seem to be

1547
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:05,600
Speaker 5: like some degree of internalized misogyny with her as well,

1548
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:07,639
Speaker 5: And it's like kind of made a joke of that

1549
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 5: the parents' relationship isn't very good and whatever, like all

1550
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 5: these like kind of goofy divorced jokes, right, But I

1551
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 5: really liked that she got a beat at the end

1552
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:20,160
Speaker 5: of like because you know, Ginger says stuff like that,

1553
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:22,639
Speaker 5: and the way that women are perceived is so drawn

1554
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,839
Speaker 5: attention to. I feel like it would have really stuck

1555
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:29,599
Speaker 5: out like a sore thumb if Pam never got any

1556
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:32,639
Speaker 5: characterization outside of being kind of like a clueless mom

1557
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:33,600
Speaker 5: from a Disney.

1558
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:34,520
Speaker 4: Channel show basically.

1559
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:38,120
Speaker 5: But you do get that moment from her where yeah,

1560
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:43,040
Speaker 5: she's she loves her daughters, you know, like and that

1561
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 5: she's like willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to protect

1562
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:52,480
Speaker 5: her daughters. And you know, I'm sure Trina's family may disagree,

1563
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:56,160
Speaker 5: but but I just thought that was a cool way

1564
01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 5: without even taking a lot of time to show that,

1565
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 5: Like it's kind of Pam putting on a show. She's

1566
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:05,439
Speaker 5: doing what she thinks she's supposed to do, and the

1567
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:07,680
Speaker 5: fact that she will be perceived by the world a

1568
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:09,600
Speaker 5: certain way no matter what she says, no matter what

1569
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 5: she does. So I appreciated that being there at the end.

1570
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 5: I wonder what becomes of her? And what do you

1571
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:17,400
Speaker 5: remember what becomes of her in the second movie.

1572
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,120
Speaker 1: So the second movie picks up right after this one,

1573
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:24,559
Speaker 1: Bridget runs away and that's when you learn too not

1574
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:27,240
Speaker 1: to be a blummer. But the cure doesn't really work.

1575
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 1: It kind of just staves off the symptoms, and she

1576
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 1: is up. She's committed because she's a minor. She's found

1577
01:29:35,160 --> 01:29:37,440
Speaker 1: in a hotel room by herself. She has no identification

1578
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:40,320
Speaker 1: on her, so the police catch her and commit her

1579
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: to a mental health hospital, and that's actually where most

1580
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 1: of the movie takes place. So most of the movies

1581
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:49,320
Speaker 1: her actually trying to escape the hospital and very young

1582
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 1: Tatiana Maslani is in it. That one is not written

1583
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,600
Speaker 1: by Karen Walton. The two sequels are not written by her.

1584
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:59,519
Speaker 1: I think she gets character by credits for the second one.

1585
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:03,160
Speaker 1: I say that because the second one is not good.

1586
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:07,520
Speaker 1: I did not enjoy it. I do not rewatch it.

1587
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 1: It also, similar to Dog Soldiers, takes a really weird

1588
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 1: misogynistic turn at the end that doesn't quite match everything

1589
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:17,040
Speaker 1: that has led up to it. But that's what. So

1590
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:19,519
Speaker 1: nothing on the mom as far as we know, she's

1591
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 1: still with her husband. Interesting, hasn't burned down the house yet.

1592
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:27,679
Speaker 5: Bummer, Yeah, yeah, I know. I've got one more thing

1593
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 5: to add really quickly. I just wanted to share from

1594
01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:36,000
Speaker 5: an essay by a writer named Logan Ashley Kinser, who's

1595
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:41,639
Speaker 5: a trans writer, wrote about the different transreads of this movie.

1596
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 5: We can link it in the description as well. It's

1597
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 5: from their newsletter, but basically i'll summarize it a bit

1598
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:55,560
Speaker 5: that you know, Ginger's transformation has been perceived as a

1599
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 5: transgender coming out story, and just I wanted to read

1600
01:30:59,200 --> 01:31:03,240
Speaker 5: this specific thick line because it really hit for me.

1601
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:07,639
Speaker 5: Of reading Ginger as transgender is not the easy reading,

1602
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:09,840
Speaker 5: but it is the most common her arc is about

1603
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 5: the trauma of puberty, and that can also be expanded

1604
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 5: upon to be about the trauma of the wrong puberty.

1605
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:19,320
Speaker 5: So even though this is like a pretty CIS focused

1606
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:23,560
Speaker 5: metaphor that a lot of trans viewers have seen themselves

1607
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:27,960
Speaker 5: in that as well, they go on to describe that

1608
01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:32,439
Speaker 5: the read that affected them the most was Bridget as

1609
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:36,519
Speaker 5: a trans masculine character, which was the read that was

1610
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 5: not presented really in anything they'd ever seen. And yeah,

1611
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:43,800
Speaker 5: so I we'll link to that in the description as well,

1612
01:31:43,880 --> 01:31:48,439
Speaker 5: but it was a really thorough, really interesting read that

1613
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:52,360
Speaker 5: you know, I don't think was the intended But also

1614
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 5: that's like what's so wonderful about about genre movies, is

1615
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:58,759
Speaker 5: it just it really opens it up to all sorts

1616
01:31:58,840 --> 01:31:59,920
Speaker 5: of reading.

1617
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:03,799
Speaker 1: And yeah, guy Peace, absolutely, Yeah nice.

1618
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 3: This movie does pass the Bechdel test.

1619
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:09,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, several times.

1620
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:14,679
Speaker 3: So many times they're talking about being where wolves, they're

1621
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:20,840
Speaker 3: talking about wolf's bane, herbs or whatever the fuck the

1622
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:24,439
Speaker 3: herb is called. Yeah, there's there's lots of conversations that

1623
01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:30,320
Speaker 3: pass between various characters, the sisters, the sisters and their mom,

1624
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 3: the sisters in Trina, So lots of passes as far

1625
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,559
Speaker 3: as our nipple scale goes, and I feel like there's like,

1626
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:42,080
Speaker 3: there's so much to talk about with this movie. We've

1627
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:44,720
Speaker 3: just kind of run out of time. But uh so

1628
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:47,719
Speaker 3: if we missed anything, We're curious if you know, listeners

1629
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:51,120
Speaker 3: have any other thoughts. But in the meantime our nipples

1630
01:32:51,080 --> 01:32:54,080
Speaker 3: scale where we rate the movie on a scale of

1631
01:32:54,160 --> 01:32:58,559
Speaker 3: zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through

1632
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 3: an intersectional feminist lene, I think I'll go three with

1633
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:05,680
Speaker 3: this one. I think there's lots of interesting things that

1634
01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 3: we haven't seen before, not only in this specific werewolf

1635
01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:14,719
Speaker 3: subgenre of horror, but like horror as a broader genre,

1636
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:20,639
Speaker 3: because especially with like teen girls and their sexuality, horror

1637
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:28,800
Speaker 3: has such a sordid history with that concept, and this movie,

1638
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:31,559
Speaker 3: you could argue, is like playing into some of those

1639
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 3: specific tropes and then other reductive, harmful tropes when it

1640
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:44,680
Speaker 3: comes to bodies and sexuality and it's not really framing

1641
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 3: assault as assaults and things like that. There's lots of stuff,

1642
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:50,960
Speaker 3: but I like the read of if you take away

1643
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:53,280
Speaker 3: the weird sexual politics of this movie, and it's just

1644
01:33:53,400 --> 01:33:58,759
Speaker 3: like a person getting their period at the same time

1645
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:02,720
Speaker 3: they become a wolf. That is almost the plot of

1646
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:08,680
Speaker 3: Turning Red. It's just a different genre. So and I

1647
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 3: really like that movie. So I think it's just like

1648
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 3: the sexual politics of this movie being all over the

1649
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:16,040
Speaker 3: place that kind of takes some of the nippleage off

1650
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:18,120
Speaker 3: for me. It's also a very white movie, and the

1651
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:21,479
Speaker 3: only I think character of color is.

1652
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:24,120
Speaker 4: Killed is the janitor who is brutally murdering.

1653
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 1: Correct.

1654
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:28,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that murder feels like more long and drawn

1655
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:31,800
Speaker 3: out and like reveling in the violence of it more

1656
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:36,840
Speaker 3: than other characters who get killed. So that sucks. But yeah,

1657
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:42,160
Speaker 3: I'll give it three nipples. One goes to Ginger's monologue

1658
01:34:42,280 --> 01:34:46,639
Speaker 3: where she describes heterosex as it wasn't like I thought

1659
01:34:46,680 --> 01:34:49,160
Speaker 3: it would be. There was all this squirming and squealing,

1660
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:53,679
Speaker 3: and then he's done, and then you're like, oh, hilarious

1661
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:57,839
Speaker 3: way to describe heterosex. I'll give my other second nipple

1662
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:03,080
Speaker 3: to her calling Jason Jeff in that scene, which either

1663
01:35:03,080 --> 01:35:06,400
Speaker 3: the filmmakers didn't notice or it was just her not

1664
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:10,559
Speaker 3: knowing what that guy's names caring either way is pretty funny.

1665
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:14,720
Speaker 3: And then I'll give my third nipple to Norman the

1666
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:17,320
Speaker 3: dog Rip.

1667
01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:21,040
Speaker 5: I'm gonna go a little higher on this one. I'm

1668
01:35:21,200 --> 01:35:23,240
Speaker 5: tempted to go closer to four. I think I'll go

1669
01:35:23,320 --> 01:35:25,200
Speaker 5: three point seven five.

1670
01:35:25,880 --> 01:35:26,799
Speaker 4: Maybe a little too.

1671
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:30,160
Speaker 5: Generous, because I do agree that that the sexual politics

1672
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:34,200
Speaker 5: angle of this movie like didn't super work for me

1673
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 5: for all of the reasons we discussed, but I also

1674
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:40,280
Speaker 5: just have never seen a movie like this. I think that,

1675
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:43,000
Speaker 5: especially for its time, it's taking a lot of big

1676
01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 5: swings and like connecting more often than not. I wish

1677
01:35:47,200 --> 01:35:48,879
Speaker 5: I had seen this movie when I was a teenager.

1678
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 5: I think I really would have loved it. And yeah,

1679
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:55,480
Speaker 5: I mean, I think just like a really singularly good

1680
01:35:55,600 --> 01:36:01,959
Speaker 5: portrayal of codependent sisterhood, which is something that I've definitely

1681
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:08,559
Speaker 5: experienced with my cousins, and something that feels like, I mean,

1682
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:12,240
Speaker 5: even when it's unbelievably toxic, you can still feel this

1683
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:14,920
Speaker 5: intense love and this kind of trauma bond that can

1684
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:18,200
Speaker 5: only exist between people who have grown up in a

1685
01:36:18,240 --> 01:36:23,000
Speaker 5: dysfunctional household. And I just like more of that, please,

1686
01:36:23,160 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 5: with less of the messy sexual politics. And just like Olivia,

1687
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:30,120
Speaker 5: speaking to your point, I also viewed werewolf movies as

1688
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:32,559
Speaker 5: kind of like a masculine subgenre that I didn't have

1689
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:35,880
Speaker 5: much interest in and this movie is a lot of things,

1690
01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:38,599
Speaker 5: but masculine is not one of them. So I'm gonna

1691
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:41,840
Speaker 5: go I think three point seventy five. I'm gonna give

1692
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:46,519
Speaker 5: one to Ginger, one to Bridget, one to Karen Walton,

1693
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 5: and the remainder to that poor goalie whose dog died.

1694
01:36:51,479 --> 01:36:54,920
Speaker 3: H Olivia. How about you?

1695
01:36:55,920 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 1: I would give this even more generous, and it's completely

1696
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:02,000
Speaker 1: bias because I did see this movie when I was

1697
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:05,560
Speaker 1: a teenager and it meant a lot to me, seeing

1698
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:12,080
Speaker 1: the complicatedness of puberty. Really that I don't think, you know,

1699
01:37:12,120 --> 01:37:15,280
Speaker 1: because girls don't get to be angry without it being

1700
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:18,920
Speaker 1: taken seriously. A lot of our intense emotions are just

1701
01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 1: seen as freely and this movie does not do that

1702
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:25,160
Speaker 1: for sure. So I would give it four nipples, maybe

1703
01:37:25,200 --> 01:37:27,559
Speaker 1: even close to four and a half. But the reason

1704
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:31,479
Speaker 1: I don't give it a full five is because of

1705
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:34,320
Speaker 1: the sexual politics, because even this time around, every time

1706
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:37,800
Speaker 1: with those sex scenes, it just feels icky. And I

1707
01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:40,679
Speaker 1: think I reconcile that with the notion of the closer

1708
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:43,280
Speaker 1: you become to the monster, the more you lose your humanity.

1709
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:47,840
Speaker 1: But even then, how necessary were they And also a

1710
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:51,240
Speaker 1: very white movie. You know, I get it's Canada, and

1711
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:52,799
Speaker 1: I think when a lot of people think of Canada

1712
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:55,200
Speaker 1: they think of white people, that there's so many other

1713
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:57,519
Speaker 1: people who live in Canada. There was no reason for

1714
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 1: this to be a completely all white cast aside from

1715
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:04,240
Speaker 1: it just being two thousand, right or nineteen ninety nine

1716
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:08,799
Speaker 1: when they were filming. And I would give one nipple

1717
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:13,040
Speaker 1: to Ginger, one to bridge it, one to Pam every

1718
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:15,759
Speaker 1: time I watched this movie, I love her even more,

1719
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:19,479
Speaker 1: and then I'll give my last one to the janitor

1720
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:23,519
Speaker 1: every time. His is so sad. Oh, and I wanted

1721
01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:25,439
Speaker 1: to say one more thing too. I've watched this movie

1722
01:38:25,479 --> 01:38:28,880
Speaker 1: several times, and now that I have more knowledge of

1723
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:31,320
Speaker 1: just you know, being older and being around more different people,

1724
01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:34,160
Speaker 1: I also got the trans read this time. It was

1725
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:36,559
Speaker 1: really it really came out stronger this time. So I

1726
01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:39,800
Speaker 1: love that every time you watch this movie, there's so

1727
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 1: many different layers to relate to and talk about. So

1728
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:46,080
Speaker 1: I just am really appreciative that I got to come

1729
01:38:46,120 --> 01:38:48,400
Speaker 1: on here and talk about a movie I love so much.

1730
01:38:48,680 --> 01:38:51,679
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, We're so happy to have you come

1731
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:52,600
Speaker 3: back anytime.

1732
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:53,719
Speaker 1: Thanks.

1733
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:58,599
Speaker 3: Where can people follow you on social media's or anything

1734
01:38:58,640 --> 01:38:59,920
Speaker 3: else you'd like to plug.

1735
01:39:00,520 --> 01:39:04,160
Speaker 1: Yes, I am usually doing some fun stuff. I am

1736
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:08,360
Speaker 1: in charge of the Native American cultural programming for Texas

1737
01:39:08,439 --> 01:39:12,120
Speaker 1: Native Health, which is an Indian health services clinic in Dallas.

1738
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 1: So if you're a Native creative, I'd love you to

1739
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:17,960
Speaker 1: reach out and see if we can bring you down

1740
01:39:17,960 --> 01:39:21,519
Speaker 1: to Texas. So you can follow me on Instagram at

1741
01:39:21,680 --> 01:39:25,160
Speaker 1: Live Native ninety three and it's the same on Twitter.

1742
01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:32,120
Speaker 3: Beautiful. Oh, it's always a joy to have you, and.

1743
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:32,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's trying to be on here. Y'all are so

1744
01:39:32,400 --> 01:39:35,920
Speaker 1: fun to talk to you, and you.

1745
01:39:35,880 --> 01:39:40,519
Speaker 3: Can follow us on social media, especially Instagram, I ever

1746
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 3: heard of it? At Bechdel Cast, we've also got a

1747
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 3: little thing called a Matreon Okay, ever heard And that's

1748
01:39:51,400 --> 01:39:55,599
Speaker 3: at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you can

1749
01:39:55,680 --> 01:40:00,080
Speaker 3: get two bonus episodes every single month, always centering a

1750
01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:04,719
Speaker 3: brilliant genius theme that Jamie and I cook up. And

1751
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:11,320
Speaker 3: this month, because it's spooky movie season, we are treating

1752
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:16,120
Speaker 3: everybody with a little episode on Pearl and another little

1753
01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:18,800
Speaker 3: episode on the Exorcist.

1754
01:40:19,160 --> 01:40:20,960
Speaker 4: I am very very very excited.

1755
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:23,519
Speaker 5: Two movies we've gotten my lotter request for, especially Pearl,

1756
01:40:23,720 --> 01:40:26,160
Speaker 5: to be sure to check it out. You can also

1757
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:30,320
Speaker 5: get our merch over on teapublic dot com slash the

1758
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:33,160
Speaker 5: be Bechdel Cast. Don't forget it's never too late to

1759
01:40:33,200 --> 01:40:37,400
Speaker 5: get your beale juice, Team what Scavs or Team Dry

1760
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:41,360
Speaker 5: Scavs merge, and it's never too early to get your

1761
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:44,360
Speaker 5: baby Grinch sexy baby Grinch merch.

1762
01:40:44,640 --> 01:40:50,040
Speaker 4: So just things to consider. And with that, Kitlin, why

1763
01:40:50,040 --> 01:40:50,599
Speaker 4: don't we.

1764
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:54,560
Speaker 3: Get our periods, get and become werewolves?

1765
01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 4: Get our period and have that signal the beginning of

1766
01:40:57,360 --> 01:40:57,720
Speaker 4: the end.

1767
01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:05,600
Speaker 3: Wow, let's do it. Okay, Bye, Hey Thane. The Bechdelcast

1768
01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:09,080
Speaker 3: is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and

1769
01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:13,080
Speaker 3: Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board.

1770
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:16,719
Speaker 3: Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals

1771
01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:20,720
Speaker 3: by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo in merch is designed by

1772
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:24,880
Speaker 3: Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For

1773
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:28,719
Speaker 3: more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdel

1774
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:29,480
Speaker 3: Cast