Speaker 1: Hello Roger, yah yo yo. All right, well, I need
Speaker 1: you to make an announcement for the podcast. You know,
Speaker 1: we got nominated for two Signal Awards. Okay, we got
Speaker 1: Best Buddy Podcasts and then we got Activism, Public Service
Speaker 1: and Social Impact for our episode of Online Pedophile Hunters.
Speaker 1: So you gotta tell the people, go vote, vote.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So what I gotta say, just say tell him right now,
Speaker 1: say go vote. Go to the Signal Awards. We got
Speaker 1: a link in the show notes. Go ahead again, everybody,
Speaker 1: go vote. Already heard my brother say, go vote. Good awards.
Speaker 2: Go vote.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna put that at the start of
Speaker 1: the episode. All right, Manny, and this is Devin and
Speaker 1: this is no such thing to show we set our
Speaker 1: dumb arguments in your by actually doing the research on
Speaker 1: today's episode. Why we miss the old Kanye.
Speaker 3: No, there's no no such thing.
Speaker 2: No touch thank no touch thank touch thank touch thank.
Speaker 1: Yeah. This is Its been a lot since I've seen
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff, so it was fun going through.
Speaker 4: I almost don't want to be taken back to these
Speaker 4: to this era.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is like an alcoholics anonymous meeting.
Speaker 4: Uh do not like this.
Speaker 1: My name is Devin, and I want to confess to
Speaker 1: being I was a pretty big Kanye fan. Sure, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna admit it. I mean, I'm just gonna say it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put it on Mike. Uh. You all were
Speaker 1: Kanye fans growing up?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Huge, And you guys knew I was a Kanye fan. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Probably when I first met you. I remember how much
Speaker 4: you liked Kanye West. That's one that's one thing that
Speaker 4: sticks out at the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would say when I met y'all,
Speaker 1: I feel like I had sort of honed it in
Speaker 1: a bit probably.
Speaker 4: You know when you talk to someone and you can
Speaker 4: tell they're really into something, but they're also trying not
Speaker 4: to let that show. I remember once one conversation we
Speaker 4: had about like the set pieces during the was it
Speaker 4: the Glow and the Dark tour? Yeah, And you just
Speaker 4: had all of this knowledge about it and then kind
Speaker 4: of like towards the end, just caught yourself and like,
Speaker 4: yeah it was cool, and I was like, oh, this
Speaker 4: guy's a fan.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I was in deep out. Let me put
Speaker 1: it this way. I don't think I will ever be
Speaker 1: into anything as much as I was into Kanye West.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 5: You know, it's hard, I think, especially just as you
Speaker 5: get older, it's hard to.
Speaker 6: Get that excitement about anything, even if you're still doing
Speaker 6: deep dives onto artist and stuff.
Speaker 1: It's exactly So here's the thing. If you've been listening
Speaker 1: to the show, you know that we usually bring in experts,
Speaker 1: but for this episode we already experts for over a
Speaker 1: decade being a Kanye fan, which is just such a
Speaker 1: major part of who I was as a person. So
Speaker 1: much of my taste, the way I dress, the music
Speaker 1: I listened to, the movies I love, so much of
Speaker 1: that is it was because of Kanye. If we were friends, you,
Speaker 1: through osmosis would eventually become a Kanye fan. I remember
Speaker 1: this one time I was driving my younger brother and
Speaker 1: we were listening to Kanye's VH one Storytellers, and he
Speaker 1: was going on this rant about not reading. I think
Speaker 1: I saw on a movie. I get my quotes from
Speaker 1: movies because I don't read. And my brother had just
Speaker 1: started he was just at the age where he would
Speaker 1: start to actually listen to the words on the radio.
Speaker 1: And he turned to me and he said, Devin, you're
Speaker 1: not supposed to say that, like why are you saying that, Evin,
Speaker 1: like reading is good? And it was one of those
Speaker 1: moments where it was just made explicitly clear just how
Speaker 1: blurred the lines had become my own brother, not even
Speaker 1: recognizing that the person on the radio wasn't me, Which
Speaker 1: brings us to today's episode, which is, like, what do
Speaker 1: you do when someone you look up to, someone who's
Speaker 1: become such a major part of your life, turns out
Speaker 1: to be a self proclaimed nazi? Must to release of
Speaker 1: this new documentary about him now more than ever felt
Speaker 1: like the time for us to like truly reckon for
Speaker 1: Kanye fandom and talk through what do we do with
Speaker 1: a man who, in many ways we can no longer
Speaker 1: recognize and why more importantly, did we let him get
Speaker 1: away with so much for so long? When you're heartbroken
Speaker 1: in such a dramatic way, when you go all in
Speaker 1: on someone like I went in on Kanye, it is
Speaker 1: really tough when Kanye becomes Kanye and then you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm stuck, you know. So now I feel like with
Speaker 1: like artists or anything, I have like a little bit
Speaker 1: of a distance of like, oh this is cool, but
Speaker 1: like I'm not going to give my life.
Speaker 5: Over to you, Yeah, I can't make this me exactly.
Speaker 1: I need a separation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And just to add on to that analogy, if
Speaker 4: it's for analogizing it like a relationship. He also didn't
Speaker 4: do like one thing that was like all right, I'm
Speaker 4: done and I'm heartbroken. It was like we kind of
Speaker 4: broke up with him, got back together like that kind
Speaker 4: of a toxic relationship until finally we were like all.
Speaker 1: Right, until there was that hard, hard breakup to My
Speaker 1: relationship with Kanye started with the College Dropout. Obviously, Jesus
Speaker 1: Walks was playing on the radio everywhere. I have a
Speaker 1: very core memory of being in a car with like
Speaker 1: my aunt and Jesus Walks is playing and she's like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's crazy. You know, he's wrapping about Jesus on the radio.
Speaker 3: Jesus.
Speaker 1: So he'd go my single dog radio niece.
Speaker 7: Then they say, you can remember about anything except for Jesus,
Speaker 7: Me's Gone Sex Lives video team.
Speaker 1: But if I talk about Guy, my record won't get played.
Speaker 1: And my dad didn't remember this, but he actually bought
Speaker 1: the College Dropout and I was back when I still
Speaker 1: had a CD player walkman, you know that was the
Speaker 1: time in like fifties, peak. The Gangster rap was very
Speaker 1: much in I love the fifty album. Uh, the Beach
Speaker 1: were incredible to the music was good, but like I wasn't
Speaker 1: relating to the lyrics. It's like it was like movie stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, It's like, oh yeah, shot nine times whatever,
Speaker 1: God up. And Kanye was obviously his big thing was
Speaker 1: he's playing us like the foil to that. And so
Speaker 1: you know, most of this album is like very musical
Speaker 1: and like connected with me right away. But to this day,
Speaker 1: I think this song right here, it's underrated and underappreciated.
Speaker 1: Your son he made the team this year. This is
Speaker 1: family business. Uh, Kanye raps about you know, growing up
Speaker 1: in his family, his cousin being in jail.
Speaker 7: This is family business. And it's just for a family
Speaker 7: that can't be with us. And it's just for my
Speaker 7: cousin lockdown or the answers, and it's just why I
Speaker 7: fitted in my song.
Speaker 1: So sweet, like sharing the bed with his cousins. Which
Speaker 1: we'll go back to having a meeting today, right like
Speaker 1: you ain't took a band, but your cousin fit three
Speaker 1: in the bid.
Speaker 7: If it's sixty, you'll I'm talking about three by the
Speaker 7: head and three by the leg, but you ain't have
Speaker 7: to tell my girl like used.
Speaker 1: To in the bid like beautiful soul sample, damn still here.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah. It's it's also such an indication of how
Speaker 4: incredible the production was. Like those early Kanye West like
Speaker 4: kick drums and snares are so identifiable if you hear
Speaker 4: them in songs today, you're like, oh yeah, so he
Speaker 4: just had like such a distinct identity at the time.
Speaker 1: And out the gate, you know, it's the first album.
Speaker 1: It's crazy that, like, you know, especially for someone who
Speaker 1: came in a game as a producer, people are telling like,
Speaker 1: you can't wrap to come in and have like this
Speaker 1: album that feels so fully formed. And then you know,
Speaker 1: there's the music, and then there's also the other aspect
Speaker 1: of it, which is he's coming as this foil of
Speaker 1: like this other sort of version of like what black
Speaker 1: masculine and he can be. You know. In two thousand
Speaker 1: and five, he's doing an interview with Sway on MTV
Speaker 1: when MTV Cared about music, and he's talking about like
Speaker 1: homophobia and hip hop in two thousand and five, which
Speaker 1: is is just crazy.
Speaker 8: It's like I would really discriminate, like I use the
Speaker 8: word fat fact, fact fact, like always a condescendant towards
Speaker 8: gaze and look and look down upon gays. And I'm
Speaker 8: and my cousin told me that another one of my
Speaker 8: cousins was gay. And at that point, it's kind of
Speaker 8: when the turning point where I was like, yo, yo,
Speaker 8: this is my cousin.
Speaker 1: I I love him, Like.
Speaker 8: I've been discriminating against gays. It's like, do I discriminate
Speaker 8: against my cousin. I wanted just to just come on
Speaker 8: TV and just tell my rappers, just tell my friends, like, yo,
Speaker 8: stop it famm like, like seriously that that's really discrimination.
Speaker 8: To me, that's exactly what they used to do to
Speaker 8: black people. I'm just trying to tell people just stop all.
Speaker 1: That listening to this. This was like the first artist
Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, like I can connect.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think he had a background too that
Speaker 4: was a lot more relatable to the average person, Like
Speaker 4: he didn't like he made a point to say this
Speaker 4: in some of the songs back then that he didn't
Speaker 4: have like that crazy of a childhood as like some
Speaker 4: of other rappers did, and had kind of like a
Speaker 4: more closer to like a suburban like kind of nice upbringing,
Speaker 4: not rich, but like not in not very poor, like yeah,
Speaker 4: just like it just felt like this is a more
Speaker 4: accessible artist I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So over my last time, I've seen Kanye
Speaker 1: perform eleven times live. The first concert I've ever been
Speaker 1: to was the Glone and the Dark tour. And speaking
Speaker 1: of Kanye performing, this is really embarrassing. Okay, this is
Speaker 1: gonna be a tough one to show. So when I
Speaker 1: was in high school, right, you know how they would
Speaker 1: be talent shows we have, and it kind of became
Speaker 1: a thing that every school like variety show or singing
Speaker 1: competition and to come out and perform as Kanye. So
Speaker 1: I will play a snippet of this. All right, We're
Speaker 1: not going to watch very much of this.
Speaker 5: They're screaming, wow, oh got the moves.
Speaker 1: Shades of course, so your.
Speaker 5: Body language like you've got the moves.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's you know, that's all to say. I
Speaker 1: was a pretty big Kanye fan, uh, you know, especially
Speaker 1: in high school and as a Kanye fan, and we
Speaker 1: have our oh come get your boy moments, uh, the
Speaker 1: first big one obviously being Taylor Swift at the VMA's
Speaker 1: gon Taylor, I'm really happy for you. I'll let you finish.
Speaker 3: But Beyonce had one of.
Speaker 1: The best videos of all time, one of the best videos.
Speaker 9: Of all time.
Speaker 1: Do you remember where you were when Yep, when he
Speaker 1: when he did that, I.
Speaker 4: Was in my parents' basement because that's where like watch
Speaker 4: the Baby Baby. It was yeah, for like the for
Speaker 4: me and my siblings, and I just remember that being
Speaker 4: kind of like the first moment on the Internet that
Speaker 4: I can remember that everyone was talking about or like, yes,
Speaker 4: that that felt like wow. Everyone was went straight to
Speaker 4: Facebook after that and we talked about it for like hours.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I remember I was in my room watching
Speaker 1: it and it was a thing where Tyrriler won and
Speaker 1: I just sort of like I wasn't really paying attention
Speaker 1: and then I look up and then Kanye is on stage.
Speaker 1: And then obviously at the time, everybody knows me as
Speaker 1: the Kanye guy, so everyone just when you were right
Speaker 1: on people's walls, and I had, like I had like
Speaker 1: make a public statement.
Speaker 5: About it, press conference, press stop.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, oh, yeah, don't condone is it
Speaker 1: was funny, but you know, he obviously he shouldn't have
Speaker 1: done that. And then the next day he appears on
Speaker 1: jay Leno. When did it strike you.
Speaker 9: Uh, like as soon as I gave the mic back
Speaker 9: to her and then she didn't keep going.
Speaker 5: I'm let me ask him.
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to meet your mom and talk
Speaker 1: with your mom a number of years ago. Uh, what
Speaker 1: do you think she would have said about this?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Would she be disappointed in this? Would he give you
Speaker 1: a lecture?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 9: You know obviously, you know I deal with her, and
Speaker 9: you know so many you know, celebrities, they never take
Speaker 9: the time off, and I've never taken the time off
Speaker 9: to really you know. I just music after music, and
Speaker 9: to a tour and tour, and now I just a
Speaker 9: shame that my hurt calls you know, someone else's hurt.
Speaker 4: I remember being so deep in my Kanye's like fandom
Speaker 4: at that point that I was like, boom, we've got
Speaker 4: our talking points. He was upset because his mother passed
Speaker 4: away recently. That's why he acted out. Everyone should feel
Speaker 4: shamed for like dunking or like dogging on him, dog
Speaker 4: piling on him. After what happened, It's so funny watching
Speaker 4: that this many years later, like that event, the interrupting
Speaker 4: of someone during her acceptance speech would not cause nearly
Speaker 4: as much drama. I think as it did back then,
Speaker 4: especially with like you know, the optics of like a
Speaker 4: rapper interrupting a country. I guess she was kind of
Speaker 4: more country back then the race was like the racial
Speaker 4: undertones to it and stuff like. But to day and
Speaker 4: like how absurd everything we consume is today, Like we
Speaker 4: would be like lol, like that, you wouldn't be doing
Speaker 4: an apology tour.
Speaker 1: We literally like disappeared after this, yeah, right, Like he
Speaker 1: went away for a while, went to Hawaii, worked on
Speaker 1: the next album, and then one year later we're back
Speaker 1: at the VMAs. Taylor Swift performs her song Innocent, which
Speaker 1: is about the Kanye incident.
Speaker 4: I was analyzing these lyrics, like what is she saying
Speaker 4: about him?
Speaker 1: And that was the same night that Kanye had his comeback,
Speaker 1: So we got this moment classic yeah, you know, we
Speaker 1: got the white stage, Kanye comes out in the red suit.
Speaker 4: Way better.
Speaker 1: Come on, He's at the NPC.
Speaker 4: And this was the premiere of the song. If I recall,
Speaker 4: no one heard.
Speaker 1: This, No one had heard this. This is really peak era.
Speaker 5: And then the Good Friday, Oh yeah, nothing compared.
Speaker 1: Best run Away. And I just remember because this was
Speaker 1: the last performance of the night. Oh yeah, And I
Speaker 1: remember it being like, Okay, Kanye fans were back on top.
Speaker 1: You know, we took we took a step back. Maybe
Speaker 1: you know, he made some mistakes, but like people were
Speaker 1: kind of over the tailor thing. The music was good again,
Speaker 1: and and like you know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: like interrupting someone in an award show maybe not the
Speaker 1: worst thing. I think things kind of got put in perspective. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, a year after, I'm just sort of like,
Speaker 1: what are we doing here? And as all helps when
Speaker 1: you make, you know, some of the best music of your.
Speaker 5: Career, it's mutually beneficial to both parties this way, Like clearly.
Speaker 4: It did feel like we were like part of some
Speaker 4: kind of a clan. Yes, like that, We're just like, oh,
Speaker 4: our leader did it?
Speaker 1: Yes, like he pulled it off. We won. Yes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will say this. I do think there's an incident
Speaker 1: that led to the downfall of Kanye shortly after this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it has nothing to do with Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1: After the break, Kanye starts to unravel and our fandom
Speaker 1: is put to the test. I think for me, the
Speaker 1: real unraveling of Kanye happened after Kim got robbed right now.
Speaker 5: We're going to get that breaking news overnight.
Speaker 9: Kim Kardashian wes robbed at gunpoint in Paris.
Speaker 5: Her husband Kanye ended his concert right in the middle
Speaker 5: of a song when he got the.
Speaker 1: Word do you remember this? Yeah, So I was actually
Speaker 1: at the show. I do remember you being there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're the Forest Company.
Speaker 1: Yeah you're Kanye to me, this this was like the
Speaker 1: moment where Kanye like it felt like you sort of
Speaker 1: hit this peak he had control of you know, he's
Speaker 1: on top of the world and felt like that Kim
Speaker 1: being robbed, it was like something was outside of his control, right,
Speaker 1: and we started to see him I think lash out
Speaker 1: new ways post that influences the King of the human being,
Speaker 1: don't with me, with me, don't with me. But you know,
Speaker 1: we were still all aboard.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It was like music was good. The music was still good.
Speaker 1: Right after this, we got The Life of Pablo, which
Speaker 1: me and Noah were at the listening party premiere of
Speaker 1: that fashion whatever it was. It was like a fashion
Speaker 1: show and premiere at MSG. It was very cool, and
Speaker 1: that's when we got our first listen of Famous. Oh
Speaker 1: yeah fall my South sad niggas that know me best.
Speaker 1: I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex.
Speaker 1: Why I made that bitch famous. God, dude, I made
Speaker 1: that bitch famous. And I remember the time being like,
Speaker 1: oh God, here we go again, you know, as we're there.
Speaker 1: But then truly after he's like, hey, guys, actually I
Speaker 1: talked to Taylor about it. It's fine. She signed off
Speaker 1: on it. She actually gave me the idea for it.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know about that.
Speaker 9: Taylor's team responded, saying that they were not aware of
Speaker 9: the actual lyrics, but I've warned Kanye about releasing that song.
Speaker 1: Kim then defends Kanye in a GQ article, saying he
Speaker 1: did speak to Tailor on the phone, and then leaks
Speaker 1: parts of their conversation on Snapchat for on my South
Speaker 1: Side niggas that know me best. I feel like me
Speaker 1: and Taylor might still have sex.
Speaker 9: Like give a fuck about It's just you as a
Speaker 9: person and as a friend.
Speaker 1: I want things that make you feel good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, go whatever line better and bobbing through
Speaker 2: a very tongue in.
Speaker 5: Cheeks either way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I really appreciate you telling me about it.
Speaker 1: That's really nice. Taylor then responds saying she didn't know
Speaker 1: that Kanye was gonna call her a bit specifically. But
Speaker 1: at the time, once again, Kanye fans were like, hey,
Speaker 1: We're hey.
Speaker 4: He All we needed was ever, all we needed was
Speaker 4: one little piece of evidence that could be spun in
Speaker 4: to a defense. That's it exactly. And I guess Taylor
Speaker 4: Swift is a lying scumbag and I never want to
Speaker 4: hear people.
Speaker 1: You know, Snake the famous video was the first moment
Speaker 1: where I was like, Okay, Kanye did something and there's
Speaker 1: no defending it.
Speaker 4: You remember, it's like, isn't it Like it's like essentially
Speaker 4: Madame Tussaud wax figures of celebrities in bed with him.
Speaker 1: Yes, we got Anna Winter.
Speaker 4: Is that Trump?
Speaker 1: Donald Trump?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: My god, Rihanna? Who is next to Chris Brown? Taylor Swift?
Speaker 4: Oh no, this is really bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's Kanye obviously, and is that a figure is
Speaker 1: to him? No, it's these are all They're like wax
Speaker 1: figures laying in bed. There's Ray j oh the Amber Rose,
Speaker 1: his ex girlfriend. There's Caitlyn Jenner, Bill Cosby, Jesus Christ,
Speaker 1: and they're all positioned naked, laying in the bed. And
Speaker 1: this film's kind of like a snuff video. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: the thing that you know, obviously there's a lot of
Speaker 1: things wrong with this video, one of which is like
Speaker 1: he depicts all of these women as you know, naked.
Speaker 1: He didn't get approval from any of these women ahead
Speaker 1: of doing this. Taylor Swift is topless, they got you know,
Speaker 1: Rian is in amber Rose are topless, and.
Speaker 4: And even in the story of the video, it's without
Speaker 4: consent really like he's just in the room. It looks
Speaker 4: like he's not supposed.
Speaker 2: To be there.
Speaker 1: In the film, it's like, oh, this is like these
Speaker 1: people are sleeping and I snuck in and I'm filming it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift was not happy about this. Yeah, rightfully. So
Speaker 1: this is like one of the first Kanye things where
Speaker 1: I was like, actually, there's no spin to this, you
Speaker 1: can't defend this. And it felt like, dude, you like
Speaker 1: had a win, like just take it and like leave
Speaker 1: it alone. And it just felt like vindictive. It wasn't
Speaker 1: creative to me at all, Like it didn't feel like art.
Speaker 1: It just felt like something to like get a reaction
Speaker 1: out of people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember feeling like it was done strictly to
Speaker 4: shock you m M. Versus for any other like kind
Speaker 4: of meaningful reason. Yeah, not that it needs to be. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: this was supposed to make you go, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: Sometimes art is provocative and it makes you uncomfortable, but
Speaker 1: there's like a point to it, and this just felt like, Oh, Taylor,
Speaker 1: you want to be an asshole about the song, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put naked in a video and you're not
Speaker 1: going to have any say, which is really kind of
Speaker 1: fucked up. To recap the Kanye raveling, we have Kim
Speaker 1: getting robbed in Harris, then he got the famous video
Speaker 1: shortly after that. In November of twenty sixteen, right after
Speaker 1: Trump wins the election, Kanye goes on a rant in
Speaker 1: Sacramento for twenty minutes saying he would have voted for Trump.
Speaker 4: Voted Trump.
Speaker 1: So in the end tour early Kanye gets hospitalized at
Speaker 1: the time, and they say it's because he's exhausted. Now,
Speaker 1: it's been reported that Kanye has since been rushed to
Speaker 1: this hospital in La. It's after police were cooled to
Speaker 1: a medical emergency. It's believed the start is suffering from
Speaker 1: severe sleep deprivation and exhaustion. Later they say he's diagnosed
Speaker 1: with bipolar disorder, and then Shortly after that, he appears
Speaker 1: at Trump Tower. Kanye has died his era blond, which
Speaker 1: is funny because they're standing next to Trump with the
Speaker 1: bond here and he's sort of just posed next to Trump.
Speaker 5: Just friends, just friends, and it's a good man.
Speaker 3: Well a long time.
Speaker 9: We've been friends for a long.
Speaker 1: Time ago, and I remember at the time being like,
Speaker 1: all right, we'll give him a pass. He went through
Speaker 1: sort of a mental health episode, you know, so the
Speaker 1: Trump stuff at the concert, that's okay, yeah, I remember this,
Speaker 1: all right, maybe we'll give him a pass for this.
Speaker 1: There everybody was kind of doing a version of this.
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle was on SNL saying give Trump a chance,
Speaker 1: you know, like everyone was like, let's see how this
Speaker 1: plays out. And then shortly after this, we get the
Speaker 1: infamous TMZ slavery this choice moment, right, and it was
Speaker 1: the sort of thing where we saw the headline and
Speaker 1: we were like, you know, that seems really bad, but
Speaker 1: like there's no way he could have possibly have said it.
Speaker 1: And then we watched the club and it was actually
Speaker 1: it was it got worse.
Speaker 9: When you hear about slavery for four hundred years, for
Speaker 9: four hundred years, that sounded like a choice, like he
Speaker 9: was there for four hundred years and it's all of y'all.
Speaker 1: And I remember, I, uh, this maybe one of my
Speaker 1: most viral tweets because I tweeted out the Kanye clip
Speaker 1: and you know, publicly declared. Talking about my public statements,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm done being a Kanye fan. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to any more shows, I'm not buying any
Speaker 1: more merch, like this is the line for me.
Speaker 4: At that point, I still stuck around a little bit
Speaker 4: because I thought this might be some kind of perverse
Speaker 4: version of album promotion, like he's always doing crazy kind
Speaker 4: of antics right before an album is about to come out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, but I don't know. This time felt
Speaker 1: different for me, and I was, you know, as we're
Speaker 1: preparing to do this, I was like, why why? Because
Speaker 1: I felt like if I was going to stop being
Speaker 1: a fan of Kanye, it would be a more gradual thing,
Speaker 1: wouldn't be just like a flip of switch, because he's
Speaker 1: done stuff in the past that's obviously been problematic. Kanye
Speaker 1: throughout his career has been accused of misogyny and you know,
Speaker 1: the way he's talked about black women, like all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. I feel like I've always made excuses
Speaker 1: for that. There's this like justin Vernon quote from Navia
Speaker 1: when he was working on Eases and they were like,
Speaker 1: how could you work on an album like this where
Speaker 1: he's saying like crazy stuff on that album, and justin
Speaker 1: Vernon's like, well, he's like playing a character. It's like
Speaker 1: America's right, And that was like the justification in my mind.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, for all that other stuff, like he's
Speaker 1: playing a character, but yeah, you know, this time it
Speaker 1: felt different, And I think the obvious thing is like
Speaker 1: I felt implicated this right, It's like, okay, you're talking
Speaker 1: about black people that involves me. Yep, Like now I
Speaker 1: feel like it's a problem because that other shit, like
Speaker 1: it was bad, but it didn't really have to deal
Speaker 1: with me. And this was also the time where black
Speaker 1: people were getting the cops called on them like every
Speaker 1: other day.
Speaker 4: It felt like there was a random news story the
Speaker 4: year of the Karen. Yes, that's the breast of like
Speaker 4: when people started calling.
Speaker 1: People, Yeah, that's when Karen became a thing. It was
Speaker 1: Trump one point zero, right, So it was like black
Speaker 1: people were also in this precarious position in the world
Speaker 1: so then for this celebrity who I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: of attacking black people at this time, especially because black
Speaker 1: people had been in the past the main people defending
Speaker 1: Kanye and his antics right and being like, hey, hey, hey,
Speaker 1: leave our boy alone. It just felt like that was
Speaker 1: different for some reason. So a lot happened after this.
Speaker 1: I'll do a speed around just going through it. I
Speaker 1: had to sort of re educate myself though, because I've
Speaker 1: been a little out of the loop. But right after this,
Speaker 1: they went to Wyoming and they released the seven Song albums.
Speaker 1: Then he got religious and sorted his Sunday service. He
Speaker 1: stopped cursing on his albums, released some gospel albums. He
Speaker 1: ran for president in twenty twenty. I forgot all about that.
Speaker 1: He received nearly sixty seven thousand votes in twelve states.
Speaker 1: He started hanging out with some white nationalists Nick Quintes.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: They went and had dinner with Trump. Uh, and then
Speaker 1: Trump got a lot of backlash for that.
Speaker 9: Uh.
Speaker 1: Right after that, he has the white.
Speaker 5: When Trump is getting back last for having dinner.
Speaker 3: With you.
Speaker 1: Saying something.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: He made a white Lives Matter shirt. Shortly after that
Speaker 1: was the He's gonna go deaf Con three on Jewish People,
Speaker 1: and then he was on Alex Jones talking about praising Hitler,
Speaker 1: and even Alex Jones was like, maybe you're going too far.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: He got dropped by Adidas releases a song about giving
Speaker 1: his cousin head.
Speaker 4: And we remember this cousin from the first song he played.
Speaker 1: In the Family Business. You know, we have the beautiful
Speaker 1: song about growing up with your cousins, and then we
Speaker 1: nat today the cousin song is about giving your your
Speaker 1: cousin had and then we have like a song called
Speaker 1: hell Hitler where you can't even pretend that there is
Speaker 1: some something other than let me shock people and get
Speaker 1: people to change yeah Swasika T shirts. So I feel
Speaker 1: like at this point Kanye has lost a lot of
Speaker 1: relevance that he had before in terms of like good
Speaker 1: music in art, and now the way he gets attention
Speaker 1: is by just making a lot of noise. And that's
Speaker 1: not to say I don't you know that he doesn't
Speaker 1: believe the things that he is saying, But it's clear
Speaker 1: to me that he is just trying to shock people
Speaker 1: and he's he's out of ideas. It's what it reads
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I and I wrote about this for MSNBC at
Speaker 4: the time, where it's like, of course, the natural trajectory
Speaker 4: for someone who can trying to shock, he was going
Speaker 4: to be like, well, yeah, Hitler was good, like the
Speaker 4: number one enemy of history.
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: Is that like that's the kind of the last stop
Speaker 4: on the train of trying to SHOCKI So it makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but it does feel desperate and sad and like when
Speaker 4: he would do some of this crazy shit, and like
Speaker 4: in the mid twenty tens or early twenty tens, it
Speaker 4: felt like there was you could point to some nugget
Speaker 4: of art artistry in it, but like, yeah, at this point,
Speaker 4: it's like, so this is someone who is completely off
Speaker 4: the rails.
Speaker 1: No, how how do you feel as a you know,
Speaker 1: a Jewish Kanye fan. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean there's.
Speaker 6: Like a song like Hail Hitler, for example, I never
Speaker 6: expected to be a song I would love.
Speaker 4: And like hearing it.
Speaker 5: It's not like I guess it's I try to think
Speaker 5: about it in the context.
Speaker 6: Of other artists or other people, and like if I
Speaker 6: was just approaching it as by itself, like just talking
Speaker 6: about that one song, say, I'd be like in a vacuum, Yeah,
Speaker 6: if it sounded really good, it's hard to say I
Speaker 6: could look past it, but like if there was something
Speaker 6: a little bit more to it, or like, Okay, this
Speaker 6: is an interesting composition or something, it would disturb me
Speaker 6: that this is the subject matter.
Speaker 4: But I could.
Speaker 1: I could.
Speaker 5: Personally, I'd be able to listen.
Speaker 6: I could listen to pretty much like I certainly listened
Speaker 6: to artists that I disagree with on things, whether it's
Speaker 6: in their music or outside of it, Kanye being one
Speaker 6: of them. There's other rappers who I think have anti
Speaker 6: Semitic views. They're slightly more subtle about it. They'll subtle
Speaker 6: like fair con or something, you know, and it's obviously
Speaker 6: different timber, but it's like it's there, you know, and
Speaker 6: that again it bothers me in the sense of a
Speaker 6: baseline level of it, but it's not like, oh, I
Speaker 6: can't listen to this, so it's you know. So this
Speaker 6: to me is like just a much more extreme version
Speaker 6: version of that, where it's like, Okay, there's nothing in
Speaker 6: this for me to even grasp onto or like listen to.
Speaker 6: And then like I'm thinking back about just like Okay,
Speaker 6: say his thing after Katrina talking about George Bush.
Speaker 1: George Bush doesn't care about black people.
Speaker 6: It seems like he's trying to harness that sort of thing,
Speaker 6: like the attention he gets from that sort of stuff,
Speaker 6: m that provocation, and then is now just like rolling it.
Speaker 6: And then with the Jewish stuff, now it's like, well
Speaker 6: you see that more, you know, you go on X,
Speaker 6: you see that stuff. So I'm sure it's it's partly
Speaker 6: he's seeing, you know, in these guys he has around him,
Speaker 6: Nick Flantes or wherever, you know, feeding this or like,
Speaker 6: and then anytime something bad happens, he can say, well,
Speaker 6: you know, the Jews did this, Yeah, and it's like
Speaker 6: it's a self fulfilling prophecy of like I lost my
Speaker 6: ideal a dud this because I did this, which proves
Speaker 6: right I was right.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So it's it's more just like it's just sad. I mean,
Speaker 6: it doesn't it's like I don't care what this guy
Speaker 6: has to think about anything really in there. I don't
Speaker 6: think he's really that influential to anyone except for maybe
Speaker 6: some like fourteen year olds who are really into his music.
Speaker 6: Hopefully they don't become president, I guess, But like, I
Speaker 6: don't know, it's the whole thing's just kind of sad.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't put even much credence.
Speaker 1: But you don't put much weight behind it.
Speaker 4: Me.
Speaker 1: It's like, I hear what you're saying. I think he's
Speaker 1: definitely lost a lot of his relevance and he's not
Speaker 1: obviously as big as he once was. But to me,
Speaker 1: it is shocking he is still as big as he
Speaker 1: is today. It is shocking that people are still going
Speaker 1: to you know, these shows. You know, he's touring overseas
Speaker 1: and like China and Korea and like selling out stadiums and.
Speaker 6: The like the Swastika T shirts and stuff like they so, yeah,
Speaker 6: it's like it's disturbing. I guess I see it more
Speaker 6: of like that's just one piece of this broader weird
Speaker 6: point we're out culturally, it's not just Yeah, So I
Speaker 6: think that's it's like sad that that's the case.
Speaker 1: I think there's something too though, that the Kanye Co
Speaker 1: signing and stuff gives people permission. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, because those kids buying the Swastka shirts wouldn't be
Speaker 6: buying it from Info Wars or you know whoever. They
Speaker 6: want it because it's him and he's the cool rapper guy. Yeah,
Speaker 6: not some political twitch streamer.
Speaker 4: The other layer to this, I think is that in
Speaker 4: terms of his relevant see, like the music started sucking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that also made it a lot easier
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 4: I think that's how I feel too, which is sad
Speaker 4: to say, but yeah, right, And I think that has
Speaker 4: played a huge role in this conversation about his relevancy, because,
Speaker 4: as we know, there are some artists who do horrible
Speaker 4: things that the music is just so good or good
Speaker 4: enough that we look past it, like as a society
Speaker 4: and like, this is clearly not what was happening with
Speaker 4: Kanye West.
Speaker 1: All Right, Noah is leaving us. He'll be out of town,
Speaker 1: but me and Manny are going to go see the
Speaker 1: new documentary called in Whose Name that's supposed to show
Speaker 1: Kanye in a whole new light.
Speaker 4: Good life sounds good. I'm Manny and we're back. Noah's
Speaker 4: not here with us today. We kicked him out of
Speaker 4: the rest of this conversation.
Speaker 1: He's out of town. Yeah, but we did earlier this
Speaker 1: week travel down to Regal Union Square and to see
Speaker 1: the new Kanye documentary. I'm off my madge for five
Speaker 1: months down.
Speaker 2: Your personality is not like this a few years ago is.
Speaker 1: A calling by the universe, never kaill me. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: wake up one day and have nothing. We could talk
Speaker 1: about that later, but it ain't no butk So this
Speaker 1: documentary is titled in Whose Name, and it's made by
Speaker 1: this director named Nico Ballasteros, who started filming with Kanye
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen when he was only eighteen years old.
Speaker 1: He continued filming with Kanye for the next six years,
Speaker 1: capturing more than three thousand hours of footage. But the
Speaker 1: interesting thing is Kanye never actually paid Nico, so he
Speaker 1: owns all of the footage. So Nico was able to
Speaker 1: get final cut on his film. He released it independently.
Speaker 1: Kanye didn't have any involvement with the making of it,
Speaker 1: but he did text Nico that doc was very deep.
Speaker 1: It was like being dead and looking back on my life.
Speaker 1: So he seems to have enjoyed what Nico has put together.
Speaker 4: We're coming at this movie from the standpoint of two
Speaker 4: guys who were huge Kanye West fans and are no
Speaker 4: longer Kanye West fans due to his own actions, and so,
Speaker 4: to be fair to the documentary, it was an uphill
Speaker 4: battle to impress me right. Like everything happening in the documentary,
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, we went in with a bias against Kanye.
Speaker 1: That's a good flag. But let's quickly let's talk about
Speaker 1: the crowd that was there, because the data was relatively full.
Speaker 1: Most of the people there were looked or seemed to
Speaker 1: be Kanye fans. There were people wearing like I saw
Speaker 1: a kid wearing like late registration shirt. They're like hype beasts,
Speaker 1: you know. And these people showed up seemingly because they
Speaker 1: like Kanye West.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there were maybe us and one or two other
Speaker 4: people I could recall who were there watching it because
Speaker 4: of the spectacle.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes.
Speaker 4: What's your kind of general review of the the.
Speaker 1: Filmmaking of it, or of my perception of Kanye after
Speaker 1: seeing it.
Speaker 4: How the movie itself, Like, what did you think the
Speaker 4: movie did well? What do you think it did bad?
Speaker 4: Because I have thoughts on this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the movie itself in terms of like
Speaker 1: the filmmaking, it's always interesting to see any behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of anything to some degree, right, And I thought
Speaker 1: that was the strongest part of the movie, is like
Speaker 1: you're seeing obviously we've seen from the outside these sort
Speaker 1: of big moments in Kanye's life during that time period,
Speaker 1: and to see somebody in between behind the scenes, never
Speaker 1: before seen footage is interesting. Mm hm. I do like
Speaker 1: that there wasn't narration. I do like that they didn't
Speaker 1: have sit down interviews. Yeah. I thought my biggest issue
Speaker 1: with this film was that you can tell that someone
Speaker 1: who hasn't done this before was making it.
Speaker 4: Hm.
Speaker 1: The pacing and the movie is all over the place.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because at the end of the movie,
Speaker 1: Kanye sort of makes a joke about like, people are
Speaker 1: gonna watch this documentary and they're gonna think it's just
Speaker 1: you know, rant to rant, antics to antics, that there's
Speaker 1: no through line, but they're missing like that this is
Speaker 1: like actually so deep blah blah blah. And I was like, actually, no,
Speaker 1: this is the issue with this doc is that there
Speaker 1: is no through line. I don't think that the documentary
Speaker 1: makes Kanye look good at all, No, no, But I
Speaker 1: do think there are worse things that Nico film that
Speaker 1: were not in this film. Mmm, especially around comments on yes,
Speaker 1: Jewish people. Yeah, he says basically nothing in this film
Speaker 1: about Hitler or Jewish people. He says like, I can't
Speaker 1: say Hitler, but they cut around a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: that we know through reporting Kanye has said.
Speaker 4: And and you know they skipped him going on out
Speaker 4: Alex Jones. Yep, they skipped his antics with Nick Flentises,
Speaker 4: who's now in the news again, because you know, not
Speaker 4: for this episode, but like, and yeah, it's a good point.
Speaker 4: Kanye West doesn't come out looking that great. But but
Speaker 4: you could tell that the filmmaker, I think wanted him to,
Speaker 4: or at least wanted you to feel like it's it's deeper,
Speaker 4: it's more nuanced than it was on the surface, when
Speaker 4: I don't think it is that much.
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny you mentioned Nick Flentis, because who does
Speaker 1: show up repeatedly throughout this is Candice Owens. And then
Speaker 1: there's even a random scene he doesn't really talk, but
Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk is in it.
Speaker 4: Charlie Kirk is in that. Yeah, I forgot about that.
Speaker 1: And I think, look, I think it's understandable that this,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a kid who looked up to
Speaker 1: Kanye was a teenager when he started working with Kanye, right.
Speaker 1: The reason he wanted to work with him is because
Speaker 1: he was a fan of him. So it makes sense
Speaker 1: that that person would not make like a hip piece
Speaker 1: of a doc or would feel protective to some degree
Speaker 1: about what he allows in the film versus what he
Speaker 1: doesn't allow the film. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I agree with you generally that there was
Speaker 4: some level of cultural value I think in seeing some
Speaker 4: of some of those behind the scenes moments. But I
Speaker 4: think I just came away being like, well, what was
Speaker 4: kind of the what was the point of that? Ye? Like,
Speaker 4: what what did I learn? Really?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you feel like do you feel like
Speaker 1: you have a better understanding of Kanye West as a
Speaker 1: person or his mental state after seeing the doc? I
Speaker 1: will say I felt like in the you know part one,
Speaker 1: we kind of glossed over this a bit. But what's
Speaker 1: obviously a major point of this doc is it starts
Speaker 1: with Kanye talking about this film is about you know,
Speaker 1: mental health. But yeah, do you feel like outside of that,
Speaker 1: do you feel like there were any things that you
Speaker 1: were like, Oh, actually, I didn't think about it in
Speaker 1: such a nuanced way. Kanye is actually operating on a
Speaker 1: different level or something, or I have a deeper understanding
Speaker 1: of who he is as a person.
Speaker 4: After watching it, they kept revisiting the idea that this
Speaker 4: is a film about mental health. I didn't really feel
Speaker 4: like that, No, it wasn't really about mental health beyond
Speaker 4: the fact that his family members are scared for him
Speaker 4: and they want him to get back on medicine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would rather be dead, not in jail, because
Speaker 1: I'd rather be dead this is on medication.
Speaker 4: I didn't feel like I learned all that much, and
Speaker 4: I also felt that, you know, not to be a
Speaker 4: film nerd, but like the purpose of a documentary is
Speaker 4: to I think in some cases show a subject in
Speaker 4: full vulnerable, and the idea that you would skip some
Speaker 4: controversial parts of that person's life to save face. I
Speaker 4: don't know why, it just it cheapens the point of
Speaker 4: the movie.
Speaker 7: For me.
Speaker 4: What I was surprised at is when I went online
Speaker 4: and looked at some reviews, there seemed to be like
Speaker 4: decently big name critics who liked the movie, and I
Speaker 4: was surprised by that.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's also you're comparing it to you
Speaker 1: know what the other celebrity documentaries are right now, which
Speaker 1: is basically a celebrity making like a promo for their
Speaker 1: you know album you know, And so in that way
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, it's like I said, it's not flattering
Speaker 1: to Kanye despite it cutting out some of those more
Speaker 1: controversial things, like he's repeatedly throughout this film screaming mostly
Speaker 1: at women, like throwing tantrums like a kid. I thought
Speaker 1: it's pretty telling too. Throughout the film who Kanye freaks
Speaker 1: out on?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh my god. Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: It's always the women in his life. It's Kim, it's
Speaker 1: Chris Jenner, it's his cousin, who's a woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What was so striking to me being in a theater
Speaker 1: was how often people were laughing. Yeah, at points where
Speaker 1: we were not. The movie is not funny, you know.
Speaker 1: There are very little jokes, if any jokes at all throughout,
Speaker 1: and people were giggling and laughing a of times about
Speaker 1: the absurdity of it a lot of time about like
Speaker 1: how ridiculous Kanye looks. At one point towards the end
Speaker 1: of the film, when Kanye's working on his album Donda,
Speaker 1: he gets upset with the people in the room because
Speaker 1: they're laughing about something that he said or did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the guy that.
Speaker 1: Most implemental artists of twenty motherfuckering years acts, they got
Speaker 1: a most important.
Speaker 3: Artist in human history? Acts?
Speaker 1: Is that a motherfucking game man, No fucking chuckling and
Speaker 1: nothing and nothing no kind of ways. And it was
Speaker 1: so funny to me because I was like, Oh, we've
Speaker 1: just spent an hour and a half in a theater
Speaker 1: watching you, Like these are your fans watching you and
Speaker 1: laughing at you the entire time, and now in real
Speaker 1: life we're seeing you're also dealing with that. I felt
Speaker 1: like it just sort of like solidified a lot of
Speaker 1: my thoughts about him, Like he's so deeply insecure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's this whole film is like someone trying to convinced
Speaker 1: themselves of their greatness almost to some degree, and being
Speaker 1: so afraid of how they're being perceived by other people.
Speaker 1: Through this, the entire documentary is sort of like he's
Speaker 1: grappling with how he's being perceived by the outside world,
Speaker 1: which is so interesting because Kanye's whole thing is I
Speaker 1: don't care what people think. Yeah, and time and time again,
Speaker 1: he just contradicts himself by caring about what other people think.
Speaker 1: There's one big scene that's been all over the place
Speaker 1: already is a clip of him yelling at Chris Jenner,
Speaker 1: I'm a family has said any responsibility from my hospital visits,
Speaker 1: but if we want to go online, that's fifty percent
Speaker 1: of what people say at least or maybe in my line.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter my line then that it matters to
Speaker 2: us and you it doesn't matter what the inner and
Speaker 2: that says, it matters what we think. Yay, So what
Speaker 2: do you say?
Speaker 1: Did you have an effect on my mentor yes?
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm saying yes, and I love you.
Speaker 1: I love you. I don't want you to be.
Speaker 9: Not perfect.
Speaker 2: I love you and I want my daughter to love
Speaker 2: you the way you want or love you.
Speaker 1: And I was like, why do you care what people
Speaker 1: online are saying about who caused you, know, like you
Speaker 1: to feel the way that you feel.
Speaker 4: He likes to pretend that yeah, yes, normal to care
Speaker 4: about this, Yes, but it's his whole identity that he does.
Speaker 1: That he doesn't care. What does doctor do a good
Speaker 1: job for me? Of showcasing was like what happens if
Speaker 1: an adult is never held accountable? Mm hmm, like time
Speaker 1: and time again, It's like, this is like if a
Speaker 1: five year old had unlimited resources, right, Like he's constantly screaming,
Speaker 1: like came at one point is like you're not always
Speaker 1: going to get your way. I don't always get my
Speaker 1: way and like that's just life, right. She talks to
Speaker 1: him throughout this film as if he's one of her kids.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you noticed this this very little
Speaker 1: music in this film, Yeah, if at all. The small
Speaker 1: amount of music is kind of in the like prologue
Speaker 1: before like Nico actually starts filming with him. But it's
Speaker 1: one of those things where you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was a rights issue or whatever it maybe
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I missed the music in this
Speaker 1: which I think is pretty telling about what his career
Speaker 1: has been as of late. Right, It's like, how do
Speaker 1: you make a nearly two hour documentary about Kanye West
Speaker 1: and play nearly no Kanye West music? You make it
Speaker 1: about this timebeard where none of the antics feel related
Speaker 1: at all to the music. This dot came out only
Speaker 1: a few years after Netflix did like a three part
Speaker 1: doc as well.
Speaker 4: Which was more It was kind of weird how it
Speaker 4: lined up because that kind of ended around the time
Speaker 4: the Nika footage started.
Speaker 1: Exactly, so this kind of picks up where that left off.
Speaker 1: But it's telling in that you know that starts from
Speaker 1: Kanye's very very beginning, and the first two parts of
Speaker 1: that are so music heavy. Oh yeah, it's so much
Speaker 1: about like the creation of those albums in the process,
Speaker 1: because that was the story in the beginning.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was important, I think to show what why
Speaker 4: we all thought he was a genius.
Speaker 1: Yes, and that and that and that doc. You know,
Speaker 1: you know, you talk about how and it's doc. We're
Speaker 1: waiting for the oh, he's a genius moments and we
Speaker 1: just don't give him and that doc we get those moments.
Speaker 4: Because the genius in that documentary speaks for itself. Yes,
Speaker 4: it's not Kanye what's telling.
Speaker 1: Your exactly You're watching him with the choir being like, oh,
Speaker 1: don't do it that.
Speaker 4: Way, do it this way, all these little meticulous, nuanced
Speaker 4: things he's doing in the studio to make something sound
Speaker 4: one percent better.
Speaker 7: Yeah, for the first time, and then brough home on
Speaker 7: the second half the course and like separated.
Speaker 2: Like you said, I.
Speaker 4: Think one of the one of the most tragic parts
Speaker 4: of the documentary, which isn't something they point out at all.
Speaker 4: I think it's just something I noticed, is that from
Speaker 4: the beginning of the documentary to the end, you just
Speaker 4: see the entourage shrivel up and shrink into just the
Speaker 4: camera guy. Like at the beginning there's like twenty people
Speaker 4: around him, at all times, and then it slowly gets
Speaker 4: lower and lower and lower. By the end, it's just
Speaker 4: him and the camera guy and Niko, and you know
Speaker 4: it's because of his own actions. And I think halfway
Speaker 4: through the film, Kim Kardashian says something like that, like
Speaker 4: everyone around you, they're telling me privately that they don't
Speaker 4: know how to deal with this. They're they're they're not
Speaker 4: supporting you anymore, and they're gonna leave you. And then
Speaker 4: he's in the car like who said that, like kind
Speaker 4: of ignoring the point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh yeah.
Speaker 4: By the end, there's literally nobody.
Speaker 1: There, and I think, look, you know, there's like that
Speaker 1: James Baldwin quote of like the world is held together
Speaker 1: by the actions of a very small group of people.
Speaker 3: The world is held together. Really it is hell together,
Speaker 3: but the love and the national very few people. Otherwise,
Speaker 3: of course, you can despair. Walk down the street to
Speaker 3: any city any afternoon and look around you. What you
Speaker 3: gotta remember is what you're looking at is also you.
Speaker 3: Everyone you're looking at is also you. You could be
Speaker 3: that person, you could be that monster, you could be
Speaker 3: that cop, and here to decide on yourself not to be.
Speaker 1: There's bits of Kanye and all of us, right, obviously
Speaker 1: not to the degree of like we're gonna be streaming
Speaker 1: into our own tantrums, but like we can act really
Speaker 1: small over something that is inconsequential on like go from
Speaker 1: zero to one hundred, and I think, you know, so
Speaker 1: much of life is trying not to be that person.
Speaker 1: But it's so easy to be that person at the
Speaker 1: same time, right, Like it's like it's hard to actually
Speaker 1: put into work.
Speaker 4: There was a there's a line towards the end, a
Speaker 4: little nugget of self reflection from him, but then he
Speaker 4: immediately backtracks on it. So at towards the end, he's
Speaker 4: like he's reflecting about his career the past few years,
Speaker 4: and he's like, wait a second, should I have blown
Speaker 4: up this this Adidas thing? What was what was this
Speaker 4: all for? And then there's like a beat of a
Speaker 4: few seconds and then you're like, oh nice, and then
Speaker 4: he's like and the answer has to be yes, And
Speaker 4: then it's like, all right, we can roll the credit.
Speaker 4: It's like I'm kind of done here.
Speaker 2: Thing.
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Speaker 3: No Such Thing